# help with braid



## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

Hi Guys,

yesterday i had a bit of time in the pm for a fish but not enough to get the yak out so i went for a fish off the rocks near malabar.
It was the first time i have fished with braid and i had nothing but trouble, couldn't get the join with the leader to pass through the tip easily and after a cast off and a tangle i ditched the leader and just fished the braid.
I broke my lure off 4 times trying to lift salmon (kawhai) on to the rocks.
Eventually someone loaned me a spare reel so i could at least land something.
Is there a way to get a leader on the line that will still let me cast ?
20lb braid.

sorry guys i'm a bit new to braid and at the moment it seems a lot of money for such a pain in the butt.
(not to mention the 4 lures)

off to the shop again.
(tip of the day don't use your credit card in the tackle shop, cash can't be traced)

cheers
Kerry


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

Kerry,

Don't know too many that use braid off the rocks or the beach. However, it is possible. What knot were you using to join the leader? An albright will go through the guides well when casting. A lot swear by it and I've tried it but found it to be a bit weak. The Stren knot (basically a uni tied in the mono/fluoro and a locked half-blood tied in the braid) has worked better for me, although it takes longer to tie.


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## Clarkos (Oct 11, 2006)

I use a double uni for all leader joins. Usually works pretty well, and is small enough to get through the guides.

If you go to the tackle store, they should have a little book called Geoff Wilsons fishing knots or something like that. Well worth the couple of dollars it costs.

Cash is King.

Steve.

PS Now I've seen Perils post, his knots are in the book as well.


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## victor-victor (Jan 12, 2006)

Hi Keza,

I do use braid for fishing of the rocks (not so much these days, mainly Yak Fishing). I use 20 lb Braid (Vanish) with 15lb leader. I tie the same knot double unit knot between the braid and leader, my leader is about twice the rod length. The reason I use a lighter leader because I tend to loose tackle and it was easier to break off.

I do use a cheap 8' rod with big guides and an eggbeater reel (4000 size). A thing I did find is not to over spool the line, leave atleast 5 mm from the edge otherwise I would get into a mess around the reel and line tangles as it was passing through the rod guides.

My fishing from the rocks tends to be bait and I don't use lures since I am fishing the whitewash in front or near of me (I hate loosing lures).

My experience with braid I had to use some weight to cast out and get the knot pass the tip of the rod cleanly. Another issue was to cut the tag ends of the knot as short as possible using braid scissors, otherwise the tag ends would hinder the cast and depending on the braid would catch within the spool.

Victor


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## Dodge (Oct 12, 2005)

Kerry

This animated link will demo most of the knots mentioned by the other blokes
http://tinyurl.com/2nop3b pass the cursor slowly over the boxes under the demo

Recently since viewing the Berkley SPs DVD I've been using the Surgeons Join going through 5 times as recommended in the DVD [the link above only says 2 times], although it involves passing the leader through 5 times its easy done on the kayak...before that I was using 3 of the knots mentioned earlier at various times


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## Squidder (Sep 2, 2005)

Not sure about off the rocks, but IMO you gotta use braid off the surf - helps enormously with casting distance, bite detection (if using bait), and most importantly the line doesn't get washed around as much by waves and sidewash (due to thinner diameter vs mono).

I also use double uni to join braid and leader, with tags trimmed very small, works alright for me.


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

the guy in the shop actually tied the knot and he used a double uni, i have always used a double blood knot but apparently this wont work on braid.
Should i be doubling up the braid and if so what length should that be.

I think i will load my space spool for the rocks and keep the braid for the yak, but i still need to make sure my knots are right.

cheers
Kerry


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## Dave73 (Dec 3, 2006)

Hi Kerry

Have you discovered the twisted leaders yet? Very big in sportfishing where casting distances and having 100% secure connections. Not really a knot, just a double in the braid connecting to the bight end of a twisted doubled length of mono.

You can buy them, or better make them up yourself, a cordless powerdrill, snap swivel and a mate to help you out is the best way. Or tie one end of the mono to the bail arm of a spinning reel and wind for 5 minutes to twist it up. Once shown it is easy to do.
Then you have a twisted double length of mono to attach to your lure or swivel. Almost double the breaking strain, and great abrasion resistance.

Wont foul up in your runners, you can make them in any length also. I make them quiet long at about 4 meters as a wind on leader to lock off when the fish is alongside.

Only downside is having 2 twisted mono lengths to attach at the buisiness end, which is more visisble than single leader. Maybe run a 40cm trace from a swivel.

Wish I had a picture to show, I'm sure someone will have one.

Dave.


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

Dave73 said:


> Hi Kerry
> 
> Have you discovered the twisted leaders yet? Very big in sportfishing where casting distances and having 100% secure connections. Not really a knot, just a double in the braid connecting to the bight end of a twisted doubled length of mono.
> 
> Dave.


Thanks Dave,
that sounds exactly what i'm after, i'll try to find some reference to it.

cheers
Kerry


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## jacktheyak (Nov 6, 2005)

I have found that the surgeons knot works very well for joining braid to leader, provided that you pass the leader through six times instead of two as described in Geoff Wilson's knot book.

In fact, I now have learned to tie the following to the exclusion of all others!

The Surgeons for line to leader, the Uni knot for hooks, the Palomar for dropshotting and the dropper loop for making multi hook rigs for beach fishing. With the uni knot, I make six twists before pulling it tight. Works really well. The site that Dodge mentions is very good and easy to understand.


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## DavidA (Mar 13, 2007)

I'm with jacktheyak. Surgeon's knot with at least 5 loops thru the circle seems to hold fine and pass thru the smallest guide on my finesse rod with no problems.

This is what "MadDog" Royter uses on his SP DVD for joining leader to braid.


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

DavidA said:


> I'm with jacktheyak. Surgeon's knot with at least 5 loops thru the circle seems to hold fine and pass thru the smallest guide on my finesse rod with no problems.
> 
> This is what "MadDog" Royter uses on his SP DVD for joining leader to braid.


I presume the braid needs to have a double tied first?
I'm just trying to figure that one out and then i will try the surgeon

thanks
Kerry


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## FishinDan (Jul 3, 2006)

When tying braid to leader (usually Flourocarbon) I use 12 turns in the braid, and 6 in the FC. This has never let me down, and if you take your time forming the knot, it is very compact, and doesn't have issues on the guides.

The trick is after the knot is tight, pull the mainline & mainline tag really hard. Then pull the leader & leader tag really hard. When there is no more movement, you can trim the tags really short.

I've used this in everything from 2lb Super Braid right up to 30lb Finns, and it's never had a problem.

Braid needs more loops to hold


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## jacktheyak (Nov 6, 2005)

Hi Kerry,

You dont need to double either the braid or the trace when using the surgeons knot. Some people do double the braid if it is noticeably thinner than the trace but I have never done this. I think that it is essential to wet the line before pulling the knot tight, I just lick it but am careful to keep the hook well away!


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## reefcheck (Jul 20, 2006)

Wasn't familiar with the Palomar knot etc but came across this link which has good animations for a few of these knots

http://www.noreast.com/knots/knotsindex.cfm


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## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

Spinning off the rocks I use a 1.5 metre bimini twist cats pawed straight to a swivel. I then tie a 1 metre leader straight to the swivel.


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## fishbrain (Oct 19, 2005)

I use a Improved Albright knot when joining leader material 6 twists out 6 twists back never had a knot pull yet & I fish very light get hold of a knot book or look on the net. 
Cheers , 
FB


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