# Interesting article about Hobie Mirage Drive...



## Frappacino (May 10, 2009)

http://www.ftlauderdaleyakfishingclub.o ... ugged.html

Disclaimer - I dont own a yak at all and am a newbie who is just doing research to buy his first yak.

After reading the above it seems to me the only benefit is the hands free operation. That being said though, why isnt there other HPB yaks for fishing? I think native watercraft does one and thats it.

What do you guys think of that article. What I am curious is the trials carried out in races of Mirage vs other HPB.


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## Feral (Oct 18, 2008)

Well I dont have a Hobie, never will, but I see this article as basically an attempt to discredit them with nitpicking, selective data and downright misleading statements. Who cares in the slightest about comparisons with other drive types? are they available in Yaks? not that I am aware of. If they are suitable for Yaks, well there is a market waiting for someone to exploit.

Sounds like this bloke needs to go get himself laid!


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## YakN00b (Jun 9, 2008)

It seems like someone at Hobie stole his girlfriend


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## solatree (May 30, 2008)

Hi Frappacino

A fairly pointless article methinks. 
I've had a mirage drive Hobie since 06 (Sport). I also have a paddle hobie, same hull shape (Lanai). I took a friend fishing a couple of weeks back - put him in the pedal hobie, me in the paddle. This is because (a) I find it much easier to fish, they way I fish, from the pedal - I love it, and I thought for a beginner, the pedal would be easier, and (b) he was dead keen to try the pedal yak.

He ended up catching more fish than me even though it was it was his first go fishing from a yak(maybe he's a better angler), but, after enjoying ourselves too much, we had to get back to the cars quickly - and he could not keep up with me as I paddled and he pedalled. I am much more used to Kayaks than him but even so, I was surprised that he could not keep up with me. Maybe I'd have beaten him if I was in the pedal and he was paddling.

What to make of this ? 
So what and who cares. Given the choice, my own preference is to use my pedal hobie if I am going fishing. I love the set up and the way it works. Its just fun and thats my preference. Other people just love paddling to fish. My personal experience with the mirage drive is that it is pretty robust, it works well and its easy to use.

IMHO, there is no single best yak or system. Hobie are very successful and very popular becaue they have a good product that works. So do many other kayak manufactorers (Ocean Kayak, Mission, Perception, Viking, Wavedance etc etc). If you are looking, try to narrow the choice down to 2 or 3 and take them for a test - see what suits you.


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## craig51063 (May 30, 2008)

Interesting but thats marketing.

i dont like or dislike hobies they have there advantages and disadvantages .

craig


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## Guest (May 30, 2009)

http://yakabout.com.au/home/content/view/248/101/

Here's an article I wrote almost 2 years ago, before I worked for Hobie or Maclean outdoors. if I rewrote it today, I'd list even more advantages of the miragedrive (I can think of more pros now). I'm not discrediting the notion of paddle yak fishing by anything I've said there (and nor would I, as paddling will always have a spoft spot in my heart), but fishing with a pedal-powered kayak is simply easier, not to mention the pedal drive extends your range and options. There is way more to it than just hands free fishing.


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## Junglefisher (Jun 2, 2008)

What a tosser, he writes a huge great article attacking Hobie for not verifying their claims and tries to discredit them by using his own unverified claims. He provides no scientific evidence for any of his claims. Where are these 90% efficient designs he refers to? I want one. I've seen too much of this type of crap, what you say is a lie, what I say is true and you should just believe me without proof.


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## Alster99 (Nov 20, 2008)

Stopped reading half way through. This guy must have woken up on the wrong side of the bed. Clearly has a grudge.


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## wayner (Jan 7, 2009)

think that guy should ring life line.
could not read the whole story as it sounded very bias to me.
had a paddle yak for ten years and when i brought my hobie sport for the ABT comps and after the first time on the water with it i wished i had gotten years ago.as with all types of kayaks they all have some points that you like or hate about them.its a bit like the argument over which car is best as far as i am concerned.you could write all day about the good points and bad points of the mirge drive but who cares i have mine and i am off to go fishing

see ya

wayne


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## Billybob (Aug 29, 2005)

Ho hum.


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## azzo (Apr 4, 2009)

Just had a day at safety beach with 34 yakkers in attendance, awesome day had by all check the thread for reports.
over 80% were hobie pedallers,

I guess Hobie should really listen to this guy as clearly they are not selling enough products.

I am a firm believer in social proof. If other people use and love it and it suits MY purpouses I am in!

this is why I bought a Hobie, ( oh and my shoulders are rooted after full re-cos so that kinda helped too.) but I just love kayaks . Horses for courses etc etc buy what you want and buy it cause you like it and it makes sense to you I reckon

This guys needs to get a hobbie other than talking crap, maybe should take up stamp collecting and stop trying to bag something he knows very little about....

Hows this for a good yak turnout.


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## yankatthebay (Dec 14, 2007)

i think this guy must have had a bet with someone in a hobie and lost the bet, now all he has left is to try to discredit them on the web. Anyone who is looking for a kayak will make their own decisions and most reasonable people will certainly see that article as a nutjob ranting over nothing.


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## Billybob (Aug 29, 2005)

Actually, I've always thought Capt Jimbo was a very articulate, analytical and intelligent writer on the subject of yak angling.

He's been around a long time and written a lot of thought provoking articles and highly informative reviews about a variety of kayaks.

If you read his article again you'll see he's not bagging Hobie kayaks, just what he considers to be the marketing hype behind them.


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## Guest (May 31, 2009)

> Just had a day at safety beach with 34 yakkers in attendance, awesome day had by all check the thread for reports.
> over 80% were hobie pedallers


Yep Azzo, thats pretty much how the trend is going and you're right - thats all you really need to look at. And with % figures like that, its easy to see how and why the 'discrediting' starts isn't it. 
What a great turn out... I'm off to read the report


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## blaggon (Jan 14, 2008)

he has issues with hobies marketing hype..fair enough. but does anyone ever seriously believe marketing hype :shock: tho i did get a laugh at his description of the Mirage Drive, "aka Penguin Propellers" :lol:
personally i'm really impressed with the mirage drive for fishing, especially in current and wind it is a serious advantage. my adventure also paddles very well so i get the best of both worlds. ;-) 
hmmm wonder if this thread will dissapear ?


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## paffoh (Aug 24, 2006)

Im not sure how to take old Capn Jimbo,

One minute he produces a good read and the next minute this dribble, Frappacino I wouldnt base any decision you are going to make on anything he wrote on that page (Just not worth it). The guy has been around the block and is a love him/hate him type of character with vast amounts of knowledge on many aspects of kayak fishing...No denying this. Heres how it ties into Australia in this age of delusion, what may affect the motherland fails to comparison here. Remember this is based on his feelings towards U.S marketing claims and if read slowly actually props Hobie to a degree?

Heres what I got out of it, his calls for claims to be published. I dont know about you but I am a fishermen first and a scientist dead last, sure I want to know about the Mirage Drive and its performance but analysing the Hobie tug of war video and asking for facts and figures beyond what was detailed didnt do it for me years ago and doubt it would today. Jimbo's Written piece if anything was sloppy in parts and no doubt addressed issues he feels needs debunking, he does speak the truth about the 'Hobieholic' syndrome though. One of us, one of us, one of us... Can you feel the love?

Any Hobie dealer will explain the features and offer a test pedal, dependant on actual water being available. One thing I am sure of is out of all brands available on the market today, Hobie sales have exploded due to peoples ability to adapt to them whilst on the water and the effectiveness of their own local test run conclusion. Popularity brings scrutiny, microscope syndromes and envy in some forms... Perhaps he should have concentrated less on the science of marketing them. Unlike his own goal with this article (loss of girlfriend), this is public downfall and what makes this beef a crap cut.

Next time I hope he gets a video camera, so I can study the eyes...


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## AndyC (Feb 29, 2008)

This from the end of that article .... "It's fine to make claims - we, and most manufacturers do. " Seemingly, this guy is a competing manufacturer or, at very least, seems to have some vested interest. However, he does acknowledge, both at the beginning and the end of the article, that he likes and admires Hobie and their Mirage Drive. Seems like its their successful advertising strategy that has him excited. Its a shame that he didn't take the time to substantiate some of his own claims by at least quoting the sources of his own 'data'!

Personally, I don't mind a vigorous and spirited debate occasionally, especially between contenders who have the courage to stick to verifiable facts. But a one-sided argument like that is never very interesting .... like watching a boxing match with only one fighter in the ring! (Sorry, poor analogy and I HATE pugilism)

Personally, I think Mirage Drives are extremely clever engineering. Why we have to think in either/or terms on this issue is beyond me. If there was a drive like that available for my OK Prowler (and I could afford it) I would certainly love to have one. And if I could afford a Hobie Adventure, I'm sure I'd enjoy that, perhaps even more.

I imagine it'd be wonderful to be able to pedal, if I wanted. But ONLY on a boat that also paddles well. Even a good-paddling boat can be hard work in difficult conditions. One that didn't paddle well would be seriously dangerous in the same conditions, if its pedal drive suddenly failed and one had then to rely on the paddle for alternative propulsion. I can't imagine anything more frightening than to be offshore on a kayak, in a deteriorating sea and with no effective means of propulsion.

Cheers All,

AndyC


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## blaggon (Jan 14, 2008)

AndyC said:


> I imagine it'd be wonderful to be able to pedal, if I wanted. But ONLY on a boat that also paddles well. Even a good-paddling boat can be hard work in difficult conditions. One that didn't paddle well would be seriously dangerous in the same conditions, if its pedal drive suddenly failed and one had then to rely on the paddle for alternative propulsion. I can't imagine anything more frightening than to be offshore on a kayak, in a deteriorating sea and with no effective means of propulsion.
> 
> Cheers All,
> AndyC


totally agree.. exactly the reason why i bought an Adventure ;-)


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## CatfishKeith (Apr 17, 2009)

So I am idiot and bought a hobie revo, I'm happy in my fools paradise 8)


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## Shufoy (May 28, 2008)

Wow, are we really starting to get over the whole Paddle V Pedal thing?!

I ate a whole tub of popcorn, and all i ended up with was an empty box....


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## Junglefisher (Jun 2, 2008)

Too early in the day for everyone to have had a few drinks yet.
If you build the thread, the argument will come.


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## swivels (Oct 28, 2008)

Soviet Hobie -


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

DaftWullie said:


> Shufoy said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, are we really starting to get over the whole Paddle V Pedal thing?!
> ...


The simple fact is that this forum has not had, and I don't expect it ever to have, a review of these craft that openly describes their strengths and weaknesses. Eventually those seeking such a review just get over it and go paddling


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## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

Edit: advised to pull back so I will.

Cheers Dave


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## bazzoo (Oct 17, 2006)

Peril said:


> DaftWullie said:
> 
> 
> > Shufoy said:
> ...


I think your right there Dave , but my only addition to your statement is that those who buy hobies just adapt to this type of propulsion and go fishing , there is no argument as a fishing craft for our rivers and bays they are superb , but , very few people who own hobies just go paddling as such for enjoyment, i believe the craft are designed to fish and thats it . they do it well .


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## Shufoy (May 28, 2008)

Peril said:


> DaftWullie said:
> 
> 
> > Shufoy said:
> ...





Bazzoo said:


> I think your right there Dave , but my only addition to your statement is that those who buy hobies just adapt to this type of propulsion and go fishing , there is no argument as a fishing craft for our rivers and bays they are superb , but , very few people who own hobies just go paddling as such for enjoyment, i believe the craft are designed to fish and thats it . they do it well .


AAAarrrrrggghhhhhh.........................

Cant talk, too much popcorn :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


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## Alotta50 (Apr 24, 2009)

I was told about a story of a guy at uni doing a presentation about a substance which he was trying to get banned. It was a really fancy name that I had never heard before. The guy went on to do fact and figures about this substance and how many deaths it caused. He then went on and convinced the whole class to sign his petition to get the substance banned. Long story short, the fancy named substance was water. Now there is some food for thought about marketing etc.


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## crazyratwoman (Feb 26, 2007)

.


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## Cuda (Sep 18, 2006)

Onya Kerrie :lol:

Better get myself a drink eh 8)


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## Junglefisher (Jun 2, 2008)

Alotta50 said:


> I was told about a story of a guy at uni doing a presentation about a substance which he was trying to get banned. It was a really fancy name that I had never heard before. The guy went on to do fact and figures about this substance and how many deaths it caused. He then went on and convinced the whole class to sign his petition to get the substance banned. Long story short, the fancy named substance was water. Now there is some food for thought about marketing etc.


http://www.dhmo.org/


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## PalmyMick (Nov 22, 2007)

FACT: 97.3%


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## crazyratwoman (Feb 26, 2007)

bars open!


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## PalmyMick (Nov 22, 2007)

SOURCE: 2008 survey


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## theclick (Jun 25, 2007)

Alright, so why dont we come up with a method of actually testing these things so we don't have this recurring shitfight. For example, near me, there are a set of channel markers every 200 m for 800m. You could organise someone with a revo, and myself with a quest (fairly similar hull shape and design) to do a speed test over the distance simultaneously. I usually paddle that distance in flat neutral waters at around 7.5km/h without break, and without exhausting myself. You could thus time each, and record the conditions for reference - if in chop, even better.

At the Coochie meet there were 2 revo users coming back to the ramp at the same time as me in my quest. I have no idea if they were gunning it or going slow (they weren't trolling), but I found that over the distance of about 1km that I was generally quicker in my paddle yak by a reasonable margin. I was at cruising speed obviously, and I have no idea if I am a fast or slow paddler, but it is some indication. It was fairly choppy, so it might be different in different conditions, different paddler, different moon alignment etc.

Having said that, I am sure you could go longer in a pedal yak. Further to this, you can hold yourself in current, and thus this is one of the main advantages. To me, it seems that the legs would be a more suitable method of propulsion, but obviously there are other factors involved.


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## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

Ok guys thats enough let this one die in peace


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## PalmyMick (Nov 22, 2007)

FACT: just pulling ya chain, lol


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## theclick (Jun 25, 2007)

In fact I'm pretty sure my quest is his ^^^ old quest. It's my slut kayak


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## PalmyMick (Nov 22, 2007)

its true


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## theclick (Jun 25, 2007)

PalmyMick said:


> its true. But you live and you learn


Eh, it's going fine for me and suits my needs (no open-ocean gear), and the only issue I have with it was the rudder install: Ie- the screws keep coming undone. Some locktight will fix that. Other than that, couldn't be happier (well.. maybe something a little faster)


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## Shufoy (May 28, 2008)

FACT: Popcorn makes your mouth dry without a suitable beverage.


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## Cuda (Sep 18, 2006)

Back to school for Occy I'm afraid :roll: Haven't you seen the thread on spelling / grammar Occy - it's pedal, not peddle :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## john316 (Jan 15, 2009)

bazzoo said:


> very few people who own hobies just go paddling as such for enjoyment,


paddle/pedle/sail... put me down as one of the few who does get out on the water just for the love of it

but the fishing is sooo good

John


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## GregL (Jul 27, 2008)

Capn' Jimbo - a bit of a tool IMO. A one man public crusade to discredit a great product, which provides great enjoyment and happiness for thousands of people all around the world. I don't like people ruining other peoples fun.
It wasn't 'an interesting article' at all. The Mirage is great - it works, it gets me from A to B quickly and easily - thats all I ask of it, and that is exactly what it does.
All that stuff he was dissecting word by word - ok, fair enough he argues some points well and maaaay have raised a few eyebrows, but at the end of the day how many potential Hobie buyers get all that technical info, read through and absorb it all before saying 'yep, BECAUSE that all sounds good, I'll buy one now' - not many. Most of us Hobie owners see them advertised, or out on the water, say 'geez, how cool are they?' and then they go and buy one (or two) - the product sells itself, because its a great product, not because of the number of inches of water it moves with the fins or any of that other stuff.
Long live paddle kayaks, and long live Mirage powered Hobies.
Capn' Jimbo, get over yourself and write about how good your kayak is, or introduce me to variations of paddling technique - I would find that much more interesting.
Greg


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## Bartek (Dec 12, 2007)

Cuda said:


> Back to school for Occy I'm afraid :roll: Haven't you seen the thread on spelling / grammar Occy - it's pedal, not peddle :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Cuda that depends on whether he was discussing the virtues of a Hobie against the ones that use a paddle or he could have been discussing the decision on whether to keep his paddle yak or sell (peddle) it! :twisted:

but I think John316 will be joining him! :lol:


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## blaggon (Jan 14, 2008)

the issue of which kayak is faster between the pedal or paddle yak always seems to come up :shock: 
for me the decision to buy a pedal yak had nothing to do with speed. it was about the advantages for fishing. i am a fisherman firstly 

for those that are interest in the speed comparisons, the adventure is the fastest kayak i have owned so far. it is faster under pedal power than paddle. not by a lot but it is.. (for me anyway)
and yes it is faster than a stealth  :lol: :lol: :lol: 8)   
i would have enjoyed to be able to say it is faster under paddle power than pedal. but that is not the case :shock: 
that said, i am very happy with the way the adventure paddles. and i usually try to do 50% of each. 

you may want more butter with that popcorn now :twisted: :twisted:


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## Bartek (Dec 12, 2007)

Just wondered if we could include in this thread other pointless discussions like

Ford or Holden
AFL, RU, RL or soccer
7, 9, 10 or ABC
PC or Mac
corporal punishment

anybody want to add any :twisted:

Each to his/her own, lets get back to the fishing


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## blaggon (Jan 14, 2008)

Bartek said:


> Just wondered if we could include in this thread other pointless discussions like
> 
> AFL, RU, RL or soccer


AFL ? thats that handball game they play in Mexi er Victoria isn't it ? :lol: :lol:


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## Barnsie (Sep 8, 2007)

Got about half way through, realised i was reading without taking anything in. . . . . .Im still not sure why he claims that he was signing thank you notes for his wedding gifts. This would also be a claim without evidence that A) he has someone to marry and B) people would actually turn up! I imagine the cerimonial speach would turn out more like a rant than anything else. . . . ..PS Just noticed, im very OVER sydneys current weather patter . .. RAIN! AHHHH


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## riv (Aug 13, 2008)

He seems to be a little aggressive towards Hobie, and as for the stats from the "HPB Boys" no linky link?? We just have to trust him that that's what they say? Or is it a self educational thing were we have to find the stats ourselves.


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## bazzoo (Oct 17, 2006)

Much ado about nothing really , one is mechanically propelled so its a boat, the other is paddled so its a kayak or canoe , what the hell is all the screaming we seem to get into on these posts all about ,some like pedaling some like paddling so why try and push your ideas either way down someones neck , just relax and pedal or paddle and allow your mates to paddle or pedal without conflict , either way is good.


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## bazzoo (Oct 17, 2006)

blaggon said:


> and yes it is faster than a stealth  :lol: :lol: :lol: 8)


Greg :lol: :lol: ha ha ha ha ha very cheeky :lol: :lol: you need to paddle the stealths by paddle mate not with your hands :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:    :wink: :wink:


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## madfishman (Dec 10, 2007)

reading this thread and protions of the article your refering to , i thought why not..

This guy does not discredited Hobie-in fact hes probably dicrediting himself more as a writer by not giving an objective veiw that isnt one sided and so nitpickky, secondly a negative veiw on any situation creates debate. When i read any article/s related to fishing or platforms of fishing i look for peoples ideas, set-ups and techniques, but what i most enjoy is the outcome of being in that situation and the results of a good/bad day fishing.

Each to their own,

and most of you guys have made some valid points , AFL or RL, I'll add lures or bait tothat list, which is why i admire the opportunity to express an oppinion or personal advise on this forum,which as i remember is the Australian Kayak FISHING Forum,

I love the fact i can get to a destination with a liitle bit of effort whilst enjoying a can(or 2) or on the phone or trawling or having a smoke ( i know i gotta get rid of them) or even doing up a rig or even doing all that at the same time, which happens occasionally. 
In my opinion, that would seem to be the the only difference between the the 2 types of platforms( Pedal/paddle), if i was to choose a model based on speed, tacking or ability to slice though waves and eat nutrigrain versus a fishing platform then i would have choosen another model. As GregL had stated.

But the fact is i bought an Outback and love it and look forward to reading the plenty of positive fishing articles and trip reports on this site.

That my 20c,

Happy fishing..

Cheers,


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## blaggon (Jan 14, 2008)

bazzoo said:


> blaggon said:
> 
> 
> > and yes it is faster than a stealth  :lol: :lol: :lol: 8)
> ...


ahh so that's what i was doing wrong hehehe  :lol: :lol: :shock: :shock:


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## crazyratwoman (Feb 26, 2007)

Bartek said:


> Just wondered if we could include in this thread other pointless discussions like
> 
> Ford or Holden
> AFL, RU, RL or soccer
> ...


Please add... petrol vs diesel


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## Astro (Nov 27, 2006)

crazyratwoman said:


> Bartek said:
> 
> 
> > Just wondered if we could include in this thread other pointless discussions like
> ...


add...left or right hand reels....


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## CatfishKeith (Apr 17, 2009)

If you have to look at the article in context with his website, you'll see he is a bit of a conspiracy theorist and has it in for some other forum called KFS which apparently it's over run by a hand full of nonexistent Hobie evangelists running as covert operatives using non-existent names to populate the forum so as to take-it-over for the Hobie evil empire.

He also refers to the internet "in general" and the KFS as a "Cult of Amateurs" sub-text Cap'n Bimbo is the only one who knows what he is talking about and everyone else is just a puny intellect and/or a puppet of Hobie.

Cap'n Bimbo validates his beliefs because Hobie owners like me question his world view plus he has discovered my plans for global domination
:twisted:


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2009)

Left hand wind, dammit!
All you righty-tighties are wrong. WRONG I SAY!


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## theclick (Jun 25, 2007)

Yakass said:


> Left hand wind, dammit!
> All you righty-tighties are wrong. WRONG I SAY!


Here Here. But my Alvey only does right handed :S


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## Frappacino (May 10, 2009)

Lolers guys I wasnt trying to stir up a ****storm

While I find the tone of the Hobie article suspect, I read it as his other articles (he has a 10 myths about kayak design article on his website and what stability, wet/dry ride etc is all about) seem to be good. He also bases other manufacturers for marketing hype (Malibu, Cobra and Wildness Systems etc). That being said, there seems to be a religious tone to his article.

The only other thing I observe that is "anti Peddling" (not anti-hobie, just anti peddle engine concept) is that the high end high performance touring/racing kayaks all seem to be paddle (maybe I missed one ?), which seems to support that performance wise (speed and endurance) paddling is better ?

That being said, i often wonder why Hobie is the only one with a widespread peddling kayak solution ? The only other one I find is the nativecraft properller one. Why dont other manufacturers do the same thing (with a properller, so no patent issues) ?


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## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

Frappacino said:


> I read it as his other articles (he has a 10 myths about kayak design article on his website and what stability, wet/dry ride etc is all about) seem to be good.


Cap'n Jimbo says stuff I agree with, disagree with and don't even worry about.

When he talks about tracking and the way kayaks track as a myth, scientifically he might be pretty right about paddle principals affecting performance but to me its like splitting hairs over colorful words. If a reseller points to a longer yak and says, it tracks better than the shorter one, I don't really care if the terminology is a bit off because I kind of understand what the reseller is referring to. I love "tracking" when its used in the wrong context and this season I've been very happy with the way my yak tracks. ;-)

Tracking out of context is a bit more appealing than hearing, "Dude, while you're carrying all that lard, that yak of yours is useless".


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## hairymick (Oct 18, 2005)

> The only other thing I observe that is "anti Peddling" (not anti-hobie, just anti peddle engine concept) is that the high end high performance touring/racing kayaks all seem to be paddle (maybe I missed one ?), which seems to support that performance wise (speed and endurance) paddling is better


Mate, I think you have hit the nail squarely on the head there.

Not bagging h-h-h-hobies at all here guys  I think they are fine boats and have filled, or created their own niche market. At the end of they day, they work well, are fast and very stable and there is a growing core of dedicated hobie enthusiasts who love their boats to bits. Bloody good on them. 

Are they better that other boats? Who cares.  The blokes who have them like them.

Likewise, the non peddling crowd, I love my sit in kayaks and canoes and just can't imagine making the change to peddle power - or even to any of the other fine sit on top jobbies out there.

I think the so called "Captain" Jimbo sees himself as a sort of messiah of boat design. He rails against the hype and marketing B.S. of the big guys like Hobie and others and I applaud him for that, but having said that, I still think the man is a wanker.

Whatever kayak or other boat you decide on mate, try as many as you can before you commit your hard earned. Only you will know what works best for you and the conditions you want to fish in.


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## hairymick (Oct 18, 2005)

> Tracking out of context is a bit more appealing than hearing, "Dude, while you're carrying all that lard, that yak of yours is useless".


Oooh Dan, 

Pricless mate.


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## chris58 (Nov 25, 2007)

well i own a viking and am more than happy, but then again i just plod along. but if hobie's are not as good or better seeing you can fish with both hads free, thats a big thing if you are in a current and want to stay in one spot while jigging, then why are there SO many on them on the water? 
but on the other side you do pay ($$$) for it... 
there has been some good buys in the secondhand market, so i would look there first. seeing we are all short of cash and with winther upon us the not so keen yakers might be selling theirs???


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## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

> That being said, i often wonder why Hobie is the only one with a widespread peddling kayak solution ? The only other one I find is the nativecraft properller one. Why dont other manufacturers do the same thing (with a properller, so no patent issues) ?


Main reason i believe is hobie have aimed fair an square at yak fishing as there niche market an I believe were one of the first to do so along with Ocean Kayak. They were both the first I saw to include moulded in rod holders and sounder mounts etc, while the others got normal kayaks an added rod holders and stuff.

Thats why if you look at the forum it predomintly Prolwers and Hobies. In the last couple of years a coupld of other brands are trying real hard to catch up on O.K and hobies head start. IE the viking profish.

As far as i know hobie is the only pedal system availble in Australia at this point. I believe the nativecraft is on the way but have yet to see one in the flesh. As for speed who cares i have the slowest yak here it doesn't bother me one bit 

cheers Dave


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## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

> That being said, i often wonder why Hobie is the only one with a widespread peddling kayak solution ? The only other one I find is the nativecraft propeller one. Why don't other manufacturers do the same thing (with a propeller, so no patent issues) ?


Main reason i believe is hobie have aimed fair an square at yak fishing as there niche market an I believe were one of the first to do so along with Ocean Kayak. They were both the first I saw to include moulded in rod holders and sounder mounts etc, while the others got normal kayaks an added rod holders and stuff.

That's why if you look at the forum it predominately Prowlers and Hobie's. In the last couple of years a couple of other brands are trying real hard to catch up on O.K and Hobie's head start. IE the viking profish.

As far as i know Hobie is the only pedal system available in Australia at this point. I believe the nativecraft is on the way but have yet to see one in the flesh. As for speed who cares i have the slowest yak here it doesn't bother me one bit 

cheers Dave


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## Shufoy (May 28, 2008)

justcrusin said:


> > That being said, i often wonder why Hobie is the only one with a widespread peddling kayak solution ? The only other one I find is the nativecraft propeller one. Why don't other manufacturers do the same thing (with a propeller, so no patent issues) ?
> 
> 
> Main reason i believe is hobie have aimed fair an square at yak fishing as there niche market an I believe were one of the first to do so along with Ocean Kayak. They were both the first I saw to include moulded in rod holders and sounder mounts etc, while the others got normal kayaks an added rod holders and stuff.
> ...


You forgot one important brand in there, Malibu. The new Stealths are very innovative, and MK have had purpose built fishing yaks for years.

Please don't hurt me, i'm West Australian.......


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## Frappacino (May 10, 2009)

Shufoy - are you indicating that Malibu have a peddling yak as well ?

If so, can you tell me the model ? Interested in reading about it.


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

----

QlpoOTFBWSZTWToPjR0AADpfgAAQUIWAEiRhFQo///+gMAEqxWGqeUwiaPT1J6aaRpiBtNTQieiSN6m0kYjEaGJgmQankQJGMU0hoAA9TF9TEsVr9fjMoo2WavkLGcbGRTMKOX1clUQYEaykBriPmHTwTJ8YnZLAM+UGTGEMA1MxnJc1e70m1WeGa88jGhAeAQyXnTG93Dkcq/eugng3jXKmBaEBd0WdFShRHVWjnaXq6gwU2DZAv9//mKrCnLcIVG0lLhjlznaGBxMMHZBrONAP4wyLApDjYhb5X5p4ZV+r8miEeBg3Sl32vrGNDo0Q2ZwwqPZ20RIk8S4LhaoWzagZPDGqwBhXpgW1of2fCtCCe94xUCGtx2vYwVtW42pJQ6aUEcJEFXLSn7oPm83vhlmIhVhBjHWKOku5Ch5cEnFNasQKMygOSlQjm/i7kinChIHQfGjo


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## SnakeMan (Mar 8, 2009)

redphoenix said:


> justcrusin said:
> 
> 
> > As far as i know Hobie is the only pedal system available in Australia at this point. I believe the nativecraft is on the way but have yet to see one in the flesh. As for speed who cares i have the slowest yak here it doesn't bother me one bit
> ...


Me thinks that would be nice red!!! love my profish the only thing it is missing is the mirage drive. Besides that wish list for viking, change the angle of rear rod holders.


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2009)

> The rumor mill is hinting at a Viking option in the works too.


The old 'if ya can't beat em, join em' trick. More power to em. I'll be very interested to see what they might come up with. I thought images of the Native WC looked interesting, but yes... a bit canoe like for a sit-on-top fetishist like myself.


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

Yakass said:


> > The rumor mill is hinting at a Viking option in the works too.
> 
> 
> The old 'if ya can't beat em, join em' trick. More power to em. I'll be very interested to see what they might come up with. I thought images of the Native WC looked interesting, but yes... a bit canoe like for a sit-on-top fetishist like myself.





Yakass said:


> Now, you could just rely on forum commentary, providing you can pick the bits (worth absorbing) out of the opinion salad that is forum commentary. But who do you trust? The guys using the stuff, or the vocal minority that don't? This forum is an excellent example of that dilemma.


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## DougOut (Dec 31, 2006)

Yakass said:


> the Native WC looked interesting, but yes... a bit canoe like for a sit-on-top fetishist like myself.


look no further O' sit-on-top fetish one .... this Native Watercarft model has just hit the US market
in 10ft. and 12ft. sizes .... peddle / paddle or electric, the choice is yours
I believe the electric and peddle driven boats are the same price (state-side)





























the back deck is designed to accommodate a large cooler box, small passenger or for those so inclined to allow easy reboarding after a snorkel/swim or what ever ;-) 
p.s. I have no affiliation with the manufacturer ..... It's just that,I've noticed within this thread, people have mentioned Native Watercraft and have been unaware of the drive system/s and the companies newly released models


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## koich (Jul 25, 2007)

That's awesome.

You could put Bundy rum stickers all over it and have rods instead of aerials everywhere so it looks like a B&S Ute.


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## Billybob (Aug 29, 2005)

The end of the world is nigh.  :?


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## forbs (May 20, 2008)

I must admit when i first started trying to justify spending a lot of money on a kayak i liked the fact that pedal Hobies apparently had more torque than paddle kayaks. I don't mind some people who ctiticise Hobies on this forum as some of what they say is true. My Hobie outback paddles like a boat, fullstop. I was told that it would still be easier to paddle than my (minnow) yeh right. However that's what test days are for and thats why we read posts on this board. So yes in a way some of Hobies marketing is a little misleading. I'm also glad not everybody on this forum loves hobies and not everyone likes SX40's and chubbies. Sometimes i want to shake them and say "a scorpion doesn't outfish an sx40" but then i realise maybe it does, well in there case anyway. But after owning my Outback for only 9 months i can honestly say i am having way too much fun to worry about whether my Kayak can out pull a paddle yak. More than paddling and more than pedaling i enjoy fishing and my Hobie does that really well. By the way, no way does a scorpion outfish a sx40.


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

----

QlpoOTFBWSZTWfBNZOwAAAtfgAAQQAHIgAlhEDo/7/+gIABoNUNA0NGmTTR6gepoAao2kZNGjQAGgZMiwiSLB3McDIpZ3gn7OUxjUr9FSUCwBpGfgG73UjuHqYOAe9SybKuCZzDrWyGAUwHQcnRAZj8l6WNIiuMgCoBYkKMYiA/F3JFOFCQ8E1k7AA==


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## Guest (Jun 2, 2009)

Oh Peril... picking at straws there mate. Pay attention to this bit:



> a bit canoe like for a sit-on-top fetishist like myself.


My speculation about how the canoe-style design is probably not suited to a sit-on top person like myself, is absolutely no different than your speculation that a miragedrive kayak is not suited to a paddling enthusiast like yourself. I can absolutely understand why someone who likes a canoe style boat would want to go for it. I did say it looks interesting... I've always thought a pedal-powered propeller would be awesome. I'm just not much of a canoe kind of guy. But yeah... if they came out with some sit-on-tops, my interest would be raised for sure. Whether they do or not, if that propeller works as well as could fairly be imagined, Native are onto something. I'm not jabbing it (quite the opposite really)... just saying I like my sit on tops is all. That OK by you?

And yes...

*The views expressed in the this post do not necessarily reflect the actual feelings of the poster, nor should they be taken as gospel. Any resemblance to self important, demanding, whining, brandhuggery posting styles already expressed in any number of threads in the forum are purely coincedental.*


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## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

> The ability to easily insert what looks like a standard leccy is obviously a plus too. Can you do that on the Hobie.


You can Occy there was some guys using the drive plug to mount a leccy through it. Post is on here somewhere from Canberra I think for around $600. Somebody will know where it is an post it.

Cheers dave


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## koich (Jul 25, 2007)

The mariner has made my ears prick up quite a bit. I was dead keen on a Ultimate 12 with propel, but now they release a scuppered one.

hmmm

41kg's but. sheesh. Might go the Ultimate 12 after all and buy a bilge pump.


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## bazzoo (Oct 17, 2006)

Hmmmmm very interesting , and seems to have a fair turn of speed , not for me but everyone that knows me on here knows i am a dedicated paddling kayaking purist , once again tht boat is getting towards a tinney , but interesting . From an ex road cyclists point of view they should move the seat further forward towards the mechanism as its not good to have your leg fully extended at the bottom of the pedal stroke , thats injury time .


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## Ranger (May 31, 2008)

I'm glad that Capn' Jimbo had his say, coz there are two sides to every story, and I want to hear all the pro's and con's, plus any arguement anyone wants to form in an attempt to justify their own stance, then I can make my own decision after reading as much as possible.

In fact the reason I am here now, is because I was looking for just such a thread to help me out with my own decision!

I know Josh (Yakabout-Hobie) from quite away back, I respect what he has to say, and I've also spoken with him about the Hobie kayaks.

I wanted a kayak mainly for fishing, but also to improve my overall fittness. I've just bought my first kayak yesterday, and I had no idea about this "pedal power". Is it all just marketing hype, or is there really something to it?

I checked out the mirage drives, and I thought the idea looked great. Then I was shown a short video about how a mirage drive can out pull an olympic class athelete, and I scratched my head wondering if it was really worth the extra money.

My first question was "how do you make it go backwards?" The reply of "by using a paddle" was a bit of a letdown, coz I thought the whole idea was to get away from using a paddle.

My next thought was, WHY do ya have to choose between pedal and paddle at all? Why cant they make ALL the Hobie range suitable to take mirage drive, but then make the drive an optional extra?

I then found out that only units with a mirage drive can be fitted with a sail.

I wondered then why other manufacturers didn't have peddle systems if they are so good.

I started to think maybe it's all just marketting hype, and Hobie really only want to sell peddle kayaks, but have a paddle range so that they still have a bite at that area of the market.

I've weighed things up, and I've just bought a kayak! Yes, I bought a Hobie! But I bought a Quest without mirage drive. 









I'm still not sure I've made the right choice, but I figure I'll give the paddle a go first, and maybe somewhere further down the track I can ride in a pedal version, and if I prefer that for fishing I can always upgrade later, because if nothing else the Hobie's do hold their resale value, so my Quest shouldn't be an issue to sell later.

I guess my next decision is "do I need to put a rudder on the thing?"

By the way, interesting forum guys, good to see a few familiar names around here too!


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## paffoh (Aug 24, 2006)

Is this the Ranger from Fishnet fame?

If so, welcome... If not, welcome too!


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## Ranger (May 31, 2008)

paffoh said:


> Is this the Ranger from Fishnet fame?


Hmmm, only if this is the Paffoh we all know and love (in a purely manly and unsexual way of course). 8)

When I look through the magic circle I can see Paffoh, Rhino, Funda and Borg. I'm sure a few of the other ol stalwarts will poke their ugly heads out too! 

Anyways, paddle, pedal, sail or kite, what the hell do you healthy lot have against outboards and 2 stroke? And if just one of ya's makes mention about how Ranger has given up smoking, taken up a healthy passtime and is looking to get into shape and look after himself, I'm gonna....ummm, errr.....bring out a range of diesels to liven this sport up a bit! :shock: :lol: :lol:


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## Rhino (Dec 17, 2007)

paffoh said:


> Is this the Ranger from Fishnet fame?


That's amazing paffoh. I asked Ranger via pm, the same thing almost word for word :twisted:


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## Ranger (May 31, 2008)

I resemble that comment! Anyway's, you got a different answer, coz we all know that Rhino's ARE very sexual critters! :shock:

On to seriousnessocityisms though, I do have a coupla questions for all you Hobie fishing gurus, especially those of you who've owned both types!

1) Do you find water entering the hull around the mirage drive makes it a wetter craft than the conventional paddle versions, or do you find it drier as there's no water coming off the paddle?
2) After owning both types, what would be your choice next time around, pedal or paddle, and your reasoning?


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## paffoh (Aug 24, 2006)

*(1.) Nope, not really :*

The only time I find the Mirage Drive hole lets in water onto the cockpit deck is when I start paddling out at full steam without the Mirage Drive in. Even then as it drains out the scuppers its only noticable when a paddling surge causes the water to reach under my seat, totally avoided if Mirage Drive is in or Mirage Plug is in (Not an issue really, under the seat are screwable drainage plugs anyway that work well). The wet difference between the Quest and a Mirage Driven kayak is really not noticible from a Mirage Drive perspective, the cockpit dryness due to choppy side swell over the rails is slightly better in the higher walled Outback as opposed to the rounded gunwhale of the Quest (User error, not yak performance).

*(2.) No upgrade, no allrounder, just specific uses :*

Im seriously contemplating a third Hobie, for many reasons. I wont be getting rid of any model I own as they all serve their purpose (And serve it well). The Outfitter was my first purchase and two up is a dream, without the help of a constant fishing partner though it was difficult to handle off the roof rack alone and exagerated back issues. My knees also clicked using a Mirage Drive due to old soccer injuries and my upper body / core strength was lacking so I purchased a Quest. Having improved my upper body immensly from paddling a bulged lower fifth vert in my back decided to play up even more, two years and a gym membership later I have gained the complete use of my body and really notice the difference when paddling or pedalling. So much so I need a solo Mirage Drive craft to enjoy a total hands free fishing experience (Just not quite there on my Quest, almost though), toying with the idea of a Pro Angler or an Outback.

I think the most interesting answer will come from Nativeman (Sel).


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## Big D (Apr 28, 2007)

Ranger said:


> paffoh said:
> 
> 
> > Is this the Ranger from Fishnet fame?
> ...


Ranger, welcome to the site and yak fishing. I've got a grey Quest the same as yours and love it. I don't think you'll regret getting a paddle yak, but I dont' think you'd regret getting a pedal either. I got a paddle over a year ago because it was cheaper and I was only entering the sport. I probably would get a pedal yak now if I had plenty of $, but would miss many aspects of the paddle yak. It's great for fitness/core strength etc, but the hands free trolling while pedalling aspect of it would be nice. I've developed a pretty efficient paddling technique now and can paddle for ages.

Be sure to keep an eye on the SA fishing trip section to hook up for local trips (I'm going out Wed morning if you're interested) to try a few GPS marks out for whiting.

Since getting the yak land based trips are almost a thing of the past!

Keep floating

Big D


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## Ranger (May 31, 2008)

No thread hijack young fellah, coz we're still talking about the pros and cons of mirage drive V conventional paddling, and that's what this thread was all about!
ie: is mirage drive wetter?
would you buy another mirage drive?

Meanwhile, I'm getting ideas for kayak number two, and I gotta say, regardless of what Capn Jimbo had to say, I'm seriously contemplating a Hobie Outback with mirage drive myself! 

Big D I'll gladly come out sometime in the near future.......and learn from you! Wednesday is unfortunately a work day for me though!

In regards to the SA trip section, through the website I moderate I may be able to help you guys out if numbers are large enough, by providing a post fishing barbeque for the SA boys!


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## hairymick (Oct 18, 2005)

G'day Ranger and welcome aboard.

I don't own a Hobie and have never paddled or peddled one and am a dedicated sit in kayak fisherman. Having said all that, I have had the opportunity to paddle alongside a hobie from time to time (Quest and Adventure) and both of these boats have impressed the hell out of me.

The argument is a little similar to what car is best - Ford or Holden  I think it is more important to work out what works for you.

The only reservations i have about the Mirage drive system are 1 that it is a mechanical system comprising of moving parts. By all reports I have heard, they are pretty reliable but by their very nature, That being a chain driven flipper assembly I would expect them to fail from time to time. Having said that, the Hobie guys on here all seem to love their whiz-bang, high teck thingamees.

The other is the way in which the hype seems to me to be self perpetuating. Perhaps there is a very good reason for this but I can't know.

Either way, Enjoy your Quest, they are indeed a magnificent sit on top. If you decide to change to a peddle job later, Hobies seem to hold their value well and i don't think you will have much trouble selling her.


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## byerszack (May 19, 2009)

i think hobies are fantastic got an outback my self..
sounds like a hobie cheated on him..


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## Salty Dog (Sep 18, 2005)

Got to confess, I'm a Jimbo fan. If people are just starting out looking for a kayak, I often refer them to a couple of his articles on kayak design.

He tells it as he sees it & I think he was just rubbishing the marketing, not the kayaks themselves.

I think Jimbo is just a fan of good design & straight facts. I don't think he's trying to sell anything or has any hidden agenda. I think we are all adult enough to make our own decisions about what we believe & what we don't.

Myself, I reckon the Hobies are interesting & I'd like to try one out one day but I still think that my ultimate kayak would a sleek fibreglass model like a Kaskazi.

I wouldn't rubbish anyone if they like a hugely wide plastic kayak with a belting great motor on the back though, (especially seeing as virtually evryone catches more fish than me) :lol:

It's horses for courses. As long as you are happy with what kayak you are on, that's what counts.


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## MrFaulty (May 15, 2008)

Read half of it, obviously the author is a turkey, fruitloop, wanker (oops, sorry, must be diplomatically correct, "owner operator"). Id say he is like me and can't afford one so jealeousy has resulted in him putting pen to paper (so to speak) - he should give himself a smack around the head!

As someone who (probably like most of us paddlers) has fished alongside hobies, I can see that the hands free benefit is great enough to forget about statistical bull and statistical sh!t. The only thing I would say is that yes, it is possible to get a faster paddle kayak, like my VFTi, but faster isn't necessarily better when it comes to fishing.


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## mustrumr (Feb 27, 2009)

Seems to me that the guy has some valid points to make about marketing hype, but that he's lost perspective. Every manufacturer of every product tries to make their product look like the best thing since sliced bread. And if it's got a unique selling point (like the Mirage Drive, for instance) they will try to make it look as perfect as possible to potential buyers, so they will only publish the comparisons that make it look better than the competition. Does anybody seriously expect Hobie (or any other manufacturer) to publish stuff that makes its product look worse?

No doubt there are lots of ways that the Hobie is inferior to it's competition in some respects, just as it is better in other ways. And naturally, Hobie will only publish the stuff that makes it look better. This isn't lying, its just marketing. You would have to be very naive indeed to think that manufacturer product information is anything except sales-driven. So what? That's just the good old free market at work.

But regardless of Capn Jimbo's apparent obsession with marketing hype and technical specifications, I think he has entirely missed the point. Hobie know their market very well, and if they thought they would make more sales by including "KAPER drag/speed predictions" and "prismatic coefficients" (WTF?) they would do so. But they know damn well that their target market doesn't give a toss about such technical data, and that including them would reduce the effectiveness of their marketing strategy - even if the data was actually very favourable to Hobie. Hobie isn't targeting hard-core technically sophisticated kayakers - it's targeting the enormous pool of people who've never even thought about owning a kayak before, and the growing group of people who kayak to fish, not those who kayak for kayaking's sake.

The thing is that a large percentage of people who buy Hobies have never owned another kayak before, or even considered owning a kayak at all. They do what I did: see a Hobie at a boat show (or wherever), and a light bulb goes off in your head - WOW, hands free for fishing, and I won't have to go through the pain of learning how to paddle properly! Then you get a test pedal, and that's it - Hobie makes another sale :lol: .

Because the Hobie does what it's supposed to do - it's easy to pedal, it's well set up for fishing, it's comfortable and stable. Just right for easing a beginner into kayak fishing with the minimum of stress and effort. None of the technical specifications that Capn Jimbo makes so much of entered my decision making process at all. Do I care if my Outback is not the fastest yak on the water? Not at all - and no, it isn't. The only questions in my head were "is it fast enough?", "is it stable enough?", "can I get all my gear in it?" "can I pedal it all day without becoming exhausted?" and most importantly "can I afford it?". (OK there were a few others, but you get my drift.)

Since the answers to all my questions were "YES!!!!!!!", I bought it, and I have no regrets. OK, the Outback isn't the ideal yak for serious surf launches or for high-speed long distance offshore work, and it probably isn't going to win the Avon Descent either, but you only have to look at the damn thing to know that - it's a big fat barge :lol: . It's a fishing kayak, emphasis on the fishing. And it's a lifestyle choice - I didn't want a stinkboat.

I certainly don't think it's the perfect kayak, or think that other kayaks don't do a better job in certain areas, or that all paddlers should sell their kayaks and get a Hobie. But it does what I wanted it to, and surely that's the only thing that matters when you buy a product - I don't pedal the marketing hype, or the technical specifications, I pedal my kayak and I'm damn happy I bought it. If somebody has different needs from me - fine, go and buy a different product, and I hope they will be just as happy with their choice as I am with mine. Vivre la difference  .

Whew, glad I got that out of my system.

Cheers,


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## alfie (Sep 20, 2007)

I'm starting to warm to the idea of peddle power. I used to paddle around 10 to 15 k.m. per fishing session. Lately I've had wrist pain ( work related ) and am leaning towards the peddle idea. Exactly how dear are Hobie peddle yaks in comparison? What do an Outback and the other models cost? The idea of sailing even has me interested now. Versatility, thats what it's all about for me. I don't particularly care how long it takes me to get somewhere, so long as i have fun on the journey.

As far as reliability of the mirage drive goes, how many of us carry a spare paddle? It's entirely likely that you could loose or break a paddle. At least Hobies carry a paddle as backup.


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