# Deciding not to



## labrat

Came across a thought provoking post on a US based paddling forum. It's about deciding not to go out in certain conditions or with certain people and how hard it can be. Although that forum is about paddling, not fishing, I reckon there is something in it for all of us. It also links to some other related posts / videos.

Reminded me of when I had a boat and arrived at the ramp one morning with the kids only to find it looked a bit choppier than expected - not real bad but just enough to look uncomfortable. I dithered around then called it off much to the kid's disappointment. I console myself now by knowing they've now lived long enough to become adults instead of possibly dying young because of someone else's mistake.

Here's a link to the post:
http://www.kayakforum.com/cgi-bin/Techn ... to-say-no/


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## intrepid

_better to be on the shore wishing you could be out in the water than out on the water wishing you were on the shore..._


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## dru

Interesting. Some thoughts of mine:

x decklines are discussed in this discussion. Very few fishing SOTs have them. And they are hook magnets (speaking from experience)
x tow lines - dont think I know any yak fisher who regularly packs one in their safety kit (me included)
x our paddle skills as a group tend not to match sea kayakers - our caution should be higher
x Believe it or not as a group we tend to be much better than Sea Kayakers in checking weather predictions and reviewing what we are getting into
x there is a lot of comment here for reserve on our buddy systems.


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## Guest

I've got a short tow line tied off to my crate. But in an emergency, every kayak with an anchor trolley is carrying a tow line.


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## Squidley

dru said:


> x Believe it or not as a group we tend to be much better than Sea Kayakers in checking weather predictions and reviewing what we are getting into


I wonder why that might be if it's true. 15 knot wind OK to paddle in but annoying to fish in? I'm here at the BOM checking the tides already might as well check wind and waves? Even more reluctance to capsize from being newer to kayaking or not wanting to dunk/lose the fishing gear?


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## kayakone

Good thread Labrat.



dru said:



> Interesting. Some thoughts of mine:
> 
> x our paddle skills as a group tend not to match sea kayakers - our caution should be higher


Sea kayakers do tend to work more on skills, as do whitewater paddlers.

Not so applicable to SOT's, but an interesting and certainly dedicated attiude to rolling practice = re-entry skill in rough water? _If_ we had that kind of attitude, no one would ever get into trouble.  Did anyone read this?

http://www.useakayak.org/rolling_bracin ... kayak.html


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## labrat

I did read that Trev and there would be very few people willing to put that much effort into developing and maintaining that level of independance on the water. Anyone would be thankful for having those skills if they ever really needed them though. A similar approach to practicing re-entry in progressively more difficult conditions would not only raise the skills but also help in knowing the limit for when making that go / no go decision.

Squidley I think you are onto something there - the fishing is definitely more difficult as things start to get lumpy and the limit would be reached long before you would be unable to paddle.


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## Dodge

Lazybugger said:


> Now you can say you know 1 yak fisher who has a tow line.


Also have on board a coil of spectra, but it's mostly used to tie up to trees on the dam at smoko time, and have only ever towed my wife and yak along on one occasion.


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## exp2000

Occulator said:


> Choosing who you go out with is so important.


Wish I was a fast learner. Although not safety related, I have had a couple of aweful experiences:

One guy who was so socially maladjusted that his wealthy family paid him an enviable allowance to stay away. I now understand why :-x

And another chap whom whilst amiable, I later came to realise was suffering from dementia.

This assocaiation cost me dearly when he let my boat become adrift causing it to be swamped in surf so heavy that it deposited over a foot of sand in the hull before I could salvage it. Destroying valuable electronics as well as deluging all my reels and gear in the process    
~


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## kayakone

exp2000 said:


> Occulator said:
> 
> 
> 
> Choosing who you go out with is so important.
> 
> 
> 
> Wish I was a fast learner. Although not safety related, I have had a couple of aweful experiences:
> 
> One guy who was so socially maladjusted that his wealthy family paid him an enviable allowance to stay away. I now understand why :-x
> 
> And another chap whom whilst amiable, I later came to realise was suffering from dementia.
> 
> This assocaiation cost me dearly when he let my boat become adrift causing it to be swamped in surf so heavy that it deposited over a foot of sand in the hull before I could salvage it. Destroying valuable electronics as well as deluging all my reels and gear in the process
> ~
Click to expand...

There seems to be a common thread here. Dementia and social maladjustment in outdoor activities partners ....hmmmm. :shock:

Seriously Brett, I agree with you, and Paul. It is very difficult to find a fellow paddler/climber etc at the same level of skills/safety awareness. Then there is the matter of commitment to the trip. I've rarely been with people who are on exactly the same page (Ball's Pyramid comes to mind), and it is _so_ important when things get tough. It is when it gets tough, whether in company or solo, that your depth of skills and experiences can spell safety or disaster.

"When the going gets tough, the tough get going." Oft quoted, seldom fully understood. I take that, in the light of this thread, to also mean mental toughness, and the experience and maturity to say NO. There will be another day, soon, when the conditions are less threatening, or a partner more suitable. I had an experience in Yosemite Valley in 1990 where this was so true. I was busting to climb 'The Nose', a 3,000' climb on the prow of El Capitan (pictured).

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl= ... EQ&dur=139

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl= ... CQ&dur=218

The practice was for many to turn up in the valley, and post a notice on the board re your intentions, hopefully to find a suitable partner. I found two, one around 22 (I was 40 at the time), and one at 45, and from their accounts, they seemed OK. We prepared, and the weather was perfect for days, so off we went at dawn. By pitch three, all of which I led, having the greatest experience, something became apparent.

The younger bloke while scared silly, was responding well to advice, but the older one was rapidly becoming a liability - his experiences had been overstated markedly, and a simple 40 ' pendulum on the third pitch was turning into a disaster timewise (4 hours to second this pitch, which should have taken only 30 minutes). He simply would not listen to advice, which rapidly became commands. He didn't listen. On arriving at the belay he then proceeded to clip himself into everything, making a huge mess. One clip with a screwgate is all it takes. We were never going to make the first camp, and a prospect of hanging on a wall instead of sleeping on a ledge became a nightmarish propability.

The young bloke eventually cut loose on the pendulum and went screaming across the wall, screaming like a schoolgirl as he went past, multiple times. At least he listened, and was up in fifteen minutes. after sorting out 45 yo's mess I blasted up barely stopping to put protection in, trying desperately to make the camp ledge. We failed by a pitch, ending in the dark on a narrow ledge just long enough for three bums. That was to be night to remember.

It wasn't so bad the fitful sleep from being in a sitting position, nor the interuptions from body movement of your neighbour, but an acrid smell that started part way through the night. It was so bad it burned your nostrils. It was the young bloke. He had been so embarrassed to bare his arse for a shit (in front of older blokes), that he had shat himself in the middle of the night. No words were spoken, as I weighed up our chances. The older bloke was going to kill us, even if the smell didn't. I finally spoke at dawn, "I'm pulling the pin." There were protests, but there was NO going on with these partners, because their speed (lack of) could see the weather window close, and us being trapped on the wall (many had died previously).
We went down, with heavy hearts, but with our lives. I never found a suitable partner.



labrat said:


> I did read that Trev and there would be very few people willing to put that much effort into developing and maintaining that level of independance on the water. Anyone would be thankful for having those skills if they ever really needed them though. A similar approach to practicing re-entry in progressively more difficult conditions would not only raise the skills but also help in knowing the limit for when making that go / no go decision.
> 
> Squidley I think you are onto something there - the fishing is definitely more difficult as things start to get lumpy and the limit would be reached long before you would be unable to paddle.


Well said.


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## labrat

Trev, compared to me that young bloke was a bloody hero - I crapped myself just looking at those photos :shock: .

As someone who has been certified "Unstable at any height" I believe that ALL climbers are demented :lol: .

Much admiration for your abilities though.


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## bruus

I was just reading through this and read the article kayakone posted about practicing rolls. Now i'm paddling a sit ontop and so i'm not going to roll. I've practiced re-entry and am about due to practice again especially since i've been slack and put on a bit more weight which i'm sure will make it harder. What i'm wondering though is what kind of techniques are there for us sit ontop paddlers. I know the best safety is don't go if your not comfortable but what if the wind picks up. I know when I picked up my stealth I took it for a paddle in Moreton bay. I checked the forecast the day before and that morning and lunch. I also checked the observations off BOM and it was 5-8knts through the day and that was the forecast. However after a bit of time out I knew it was much higher. I never felt unsafe and wasn't far from shore and came in after a bit of a paddle. I got home and saw that it got up to 23knots. After reading this thread I've been thinking what if that happens off shore and it gets messy. What kind of techniques/strokes are there that can be used for our kayaks? I know recently out at the Stradbroke fishing comp I used the brace stroke a couple of times before I really needed it just to be sure while on a following swell. What else is there that we should be capable of doing? The only things I can think of that i've been shown are basic paddle technique, brace and sorry I don't know the actual names but i'll call it forward and reverse sweep for turning on the spot.


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## kayakone

bruus said:


> I was just reading through this and read the article kayakone posted about practicing rolls. Now i'm paddling a sit ontop and so i'm not going to roll. I've practiced re-entry and am about due to practice again especially since i've been slack and put on a bit more weight which i'm sure will make it harder. What i'm wondering though is what kind of techniques are there for us sit ontop paddlers. I know the best safety is don't go if your not comfortable but what if the wind picks up. I know when I picked up my stealth I took it for a paddle in Moreton bay. I checked the forecast the day before and that morning and lunch. I also checked the observations off BOM and it was 5-8knts through the day and that was the forecast. However after a bit of time out I knew it was much higher. I never felt unsafe and wasn't far from shore and came in after a bit of a paddle. I got home and saw that it got up to 23knots. After reading this thread I've been thinking what if that happens off shore and it gets messy. What kind of techniques/strokes are there that can be used for our kayaks? I know recently out at the Stradbroke fishing comp I used the brace stroke a couple of times before I really needed it just to be sure while on a following swell. What else is there that we should be capable of doing? The only things I can think of that i've been shown are basic paddle technique, brace and sorry I don't know the actual names but i'll call it forward and reverse sweep for turning on the spot.


_*You have asked some serious questions Daniel, IMO all relevant*_. Before again being branded 'the resident Safety Officer' (I have no problem with that ... I generally treat safety seriously), though a sticking point is the derision offered recently for encouraging others to read the Safety threads.

I would first like to see feedback from several others. Only then I will offer a detailed reply on the open forum.


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## Rose

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## intrepid

cjbfisher said:


> Don't be put off, Trev. Whilst the established members may see your insistence for reading the safety sticky as boring and repetitive, it is not aimed at them, and I hope that they would have the common sense and maturity to realise that. If, by encouraging new members to get aquainted with safety procedures, a life is saved or serious injury is avoided, then it is a job well done.
> Chris


yeah WTF? i learnt HEAPS from those sticky threads, and even more by using search feature... then i post up things like my "night fishing" thread just to check i have got it close to sorted?

the more people posting stuff (experiences, ideas, suggestions, do NOT do's) etc the better...

please keep posting if you have any input, i cant believe that anyone would deride you for trying to help us newbies!!! :shock:


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## intrepid

salticrak said:


> What I learned
> 
> Mark one eyeball is your best bit of safety gear,accept what your eyes are telling you.
> Once in difficulties make a plan and stick to it if progress is being made.
> Do not be too proud to ask a stinka for help if the situation requires, beers are cheaper than coffins.
> Slow down and think.


i remembered your advice today, but after considering it, being in a bit of chop & wind on a suburban harbor in a Revo 13 was not a situation i needed help from a stinkboat!!!

(but it was the slow down & think bit i was mostly remembering)


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## Deefa

I am glad I was able to say no the other day. 
It was to be my first PPB paddle and hopefully fish, but arriving excited after a night shift I had a look, it was too lumpy, windier than expected, I decided I was too tired and I realized that I did not have enough warm gear to even contemplate going out.
So I fished princess pier for an hour for nothing, then near the limit of tiredness I made my way back to my car only to spot a bust up on the west side of station pier, gulls going off. I had to say no to that too, unfortunately, but I am glad I did as the drive home was nasty due to me leaving my prescription sunnies at work.

I think the constant mention of the safety threads is great - I was browsing this forum for quite a while before getting a kayak so read through a lot of threads in preparation.


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## Rose

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## dru

Squidley said:


> dru said:
> 
> 
> 
> x Believe it or not as a group we tend to be much better than Sea Kayakers in checking weather predictions and reviewing what we are getting into
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder why that might be if it's true. 15 knot wind OK to paddle in but annoying to fish in? I'm here at the BOM checking the tides already might as well check wind and waves? Even more reluctance to capsize from being newer to kayaking or not wanting to dunk/lose the fishing gear?
Click to expand...

Generalisations are poor I know. Still.

I think we start with needing to know the tides for fishing. Then we rely on ourselves to check conditions. Club groups will have dedicated leaders who have a responsibility to do this, the others can be more lax.

I tis a generarlisation though.


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## labrat

It's interesting that Freya should get a mention in this thread. I was just thinking about risk mitigation and good management versus good luck. Let's face it, no matter how well prepared we are there is always that chance that bad luck will put up something not reasonably foreseeable that we can't cope with. The planning and precautions are all about minimising the risk to an acceptable level.

Freya's trip around our coast typifies this - she was obviously well prepared but could still have disappeared on several legs. One that sticks in my mind is the night she was caught on a reef (off WA or the NT) and had to get out of the kayak in the dark to walk it off the rocks with something large splashing in the water nearby. Highly unlikely that it was anything but a saltwater croc - what would have happened if it had been that bit closer when she stepped out?

If we accept that there is a limit for everyone then raising the skill levels is one way of raising that limit and being able to go out more often.


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## kayakone

labrat said:


> It's interesting that Freya should get a mention in this thread. I was just thinking about risk mitigation and good management versus good luck. Let's face it, no matter how well prepared we are there is always that chance that bad luck will put up something not reasonably foreseeable that we can't cope with. The planning and precautions are all about minimising the risk to an acceptable level.
> 
> Freya's trip around our coast typifies this - she was obviously well prepared but could still have disappeared on several legs. One that sticks in my mind is the night she was caught on a reef (off WA or the NT) and had to get out of the kayak in the dark to walk it off the rocks with something large splashing in the water nearby. Highly unlikely that it was anything but a saltwater croc - what would have happened if it had been that bit closer when she stepped out?
> 
> If we accept that there is a limit for everyone then raising the skill levels is one way of raising that limit and being able to go out more often.


Yep. That's exactly what Rose was saying. But someone said, in somewhat other words, that fishing can cloud judgement, in the area of critical decision making (deciding not to ...).

What do others think of this?


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## dru

bruus said:


> What i'm wondering though is what kind of techniques are there for us sit ontop paddlers.


Hey bruus. Much of the response here is entering deep water. Water that is interesting, but not getting to your query, which is actually quite simple.

ish

It isn't one technique. Nor is it for a sea kayak, "so now you can roll you are OK". What it is about is augmenting your comfort with survival skills. You don't learn them once then move on. You build the skills and initially this gives some credibility to your comfort. After that the skills start increasing your comfort.

Enough of "the way". Here are some usefull paddling skills:
x low brace (I remain unconvinced that a high brace is useful on a SOT unless you have knee straps)
x sweep stroke (turning)
x sweep stroke (bracing)
x rear rudder

Then work on seamlessly integrating these strokes into your go forward. You shouldn't need a rudder.
Then work on using these skills to enable you to turn downwind in big conditions (without the rudder). Your ability here should relate directly to your comfort zones.

I have found that other strokes just simply give me more comfort in my boat handling. So add (I'm no longer talking technique but using technique for tricks)
x paddle your yak sideways
x stop your yak. (from fast in a straight line)
x forward rudder, then learn to turn this into a sideways rudder ( it's really cool when you get it right).
x backwards paddling. Sweep and forward rudder (which is in reverse) when you are at it.

OK it's getting confusing, so let me add that I am not claiming diva skills with this stuff. Just it interests me, and makes me a better paddler, and gives me higher weather tolerance for sure.

The trick is to get instruction and see where your interest takes you. Hell, if you took up a whitewater course I'll bet your confidence in the blue increases.

BUT the key here is that as a kayak fisher, if you really want to take charge of your confidence levels in big conditions... You need to invest time in paddling.


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## kayakone

dru said:


> bruus said:
> 
> 
> 
> What i'm wondering though is what kind of techniques are there for us sit ontop paddlers.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey bruus. Much of the response here is entering deep water. Water that is interesting, but not getting to your query, which is actually quite simple.
> 
> It isn't one technique. What it is about is augmenting your comfort with survival skills. You don't learn them once then move on. You build the skills and initially this gives some credibility to your comfort. After that the skills start increasing your comfort.
> 
> The trick is to get instruction....
> 
> BUT the key here is that as a kayak fisher, if you really want to take charge of your confidence levels in big conditions... You need to invest time in paddling.
Click to expand...

Instruction and time, Daniel. I'm with Dru here.

The first also requiring a bit of cash, because generally you won't get good instruction for free. You must also invest the time post instruction.

Are you willing for both?


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## gbc

This thread is remiscent of one on a N American site I read about a year ago and now can't find the link to.
An instructor was discussing the differences between risk and hazard, and how they apply to kayakers.

Basically, we are in a borderline 'safe' sport. This is evidenced by the amount of safety crap that we all go and purchase. We buy this stuff to risk equalise. We run if/then scenarios in our heads about ditching, then get lifejackets, water, sea die, radios the list is endless.
The instructor ran a couple of pilot sessions with experienced kayakers, asking them to do a float plan/risk analysis on a couple of different hypothetical scenarios. The question was always returned "what safety gear are we carrying?", and inevitably, the more safety gear they could take, the more inclined they were to go.

He then explained to them how to do a proper risk analysis, and made some explanations of terms.
Hazard = something that can hurt us
Risk = the chances that a hazard can hurt us

What is the hazard? Falling out - amongst other things. Q. How on earth can all the safety gear in the world stop us from falling out? It can't. The hazard in the risk analysis is our own skills and our inability to keep control of the boat. The way to reduce that hazard is to train and learn boat handling skills.
We subconciously know this, but we tend to put our faith in purchased safety items rather than trust and develop our own skills. This is borne out in how we make decisions about whether to stay home or not - decisions which are based on incorrect assumptions. "If I buy enough safety gear I can go out in more marginal conditions" - a dangerous thought process.

I fear I haven't done his article justice as his was succinctly written, but I hope I have delivered the 'vibe' of the thing.


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## kayakone

gbc said:


> Some explanations of terms.
> Hazard = something that can hurt us
> Risk = the chances that a hazard can hurt us
> 
> What is the hazard? Falling out - amongst other things. Q. How on earth can all the safety gear in the world stop us from falling out? It can't. The hazard in the risk analysis is our own skills and our inability to keep control of the boat. The way to reduce that hazard is to train and learn boat handling skills.
> We subconciously know this, but we tend to put our faith in purchased safety items rather than trust and develop our own skills. This is borne out in how we make decisions about whether to stay home or not - decisions which are based on incorrect assumptions. "If I buy enough safety gear I can go out in more marginal conditions" - a dangerous thought process.
> 
> I fear I haven't done his article justice as his was succinctly written, but I hope I have delivered the 'vibe' of the thing.


Have no fear gbc. You have delivered the 'vibe', extremely well.



bruus said:


> I've practiced re-entry and am about due to practice again especially since i've been slack and put on a bit more weight which i'm sure will make it harder. What i'm wondering though is what kind of techniques are there for us sit ontop paddlers. I know the best safety is don't go if your not comfortable but what if the wind picks up. I know when I picked up my stealth I took it for a paddle in Moreton bay. I checked the forecast the day before and that morning and lunch. I also checked the observations off BOM and it was 5-8knts through the day and that was the forecast. However after a bit of time out I knew it was much higher. I never felt unsafe and wasn't far from shore and came in after a bit of a paddle. I got home and saw that it got up to 23knots. After reading this thread I've been thinking what if that happens off shore and it gets messy. What kind of techniques/strokes are there that can be used for our kayaks? I know recently out at the Stradbroke fishing comp I used the brace stroke a couple of times before I really needed it just to be sure while on a following swell. What else is there that we should be capable of doing? The only things I can think of that i've been shown are basic paddle technique, brace and sorry I don't know the actual names but i'll call it forward and reverse sweep for turning on the spot.


Daniel is keen on developing his paddling skills, to improve his safety, and that is the starting point gbc, as you point out. It is also what Dru has succinctly pointed out.



Rose said:


> Maybe this person has enough sea kayaking experience, in all conditions, for her common sense to appeal to some of Australia's more gung-ho paddlers enough for them to listen to her. Knowing when to turn back has kept her safe through some experiences none of us here are ever likely to know. Today she turned back from what was meant to be a fifty kilometre + paddle. It's all about knowing your limits...realistically. And even more importantly, about knowing the power of the elements you wish to challenge.
> 
> http://freyahoffmeister.com/2013/03/18/ ... 13-day-423





labrat said:


> It's interesting that Freya should get a mention in this thread. I was just thinking about risk mitigation and good management versus good luck. Let's face it, no matter how well prepared we are there is always that chance that bad luck will put up something not reasonably foreseeable that we can't cope with. The planning and precautions are all about minimising the risk to an acceptable level.
> 
> If we accept that there is a limit for everyone then raising the skill levels is one way of raising that limit and being able to go out more often.


(my colouring)

May I give an example of where the average paddler's skills may be, and why that is likely to be a lowish level.
Let's take forward paddling alone as an example, and let's assume you have never received paddling instructuction. You bought your kayak, and you paddle it. It goes forwards, so you can paddle forwards. Yeah, about as well as a learner driver, behing the wheel for a few drives with his dad or older brother, can drive. He's in the car, moving it forwards, and steering it, so is he driving forwards? Yes, but, clearly there is room for improvement. The best way to get improvement is with proper instruction.

Proper instruction comes at a _cost_, but also the _benefits_ of correct technique. A cost benefit analysis is strongly in favour of professional instruction. If you rely on the Dad or brother only, you are at risk of developing poor techniques. Poor paddling technique can lead to:

1. inefficiency - getting tired after a couple of hours paddling. Compare this with paddlers who paddle for 8 + hours (one person on here paddled for over 14 hours straight a few times :shock: ).

2. injury - a high chance with poor technique.  

Therefore bite the bullet and pay a proper person to help you.

You will not regret it, and the enormous (safety) benefits are with you for life. (Australian Canoeing qualified instructor - http://www.canoe.org.au/?MenuID=Educati ... %2F970%2F0)


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## bruus

kayakone said:


> nstruction and time, Daniel. I'm with Dru here.
> 
> The first also requiring a bit of cash, because generally you won't get good instruction for free. You must also invest the time post instruction.
> 
> Are you willing for both?


I'm definately willing for both, when the finances allow for it. Particularly considering the difference I find from simply rotating while paddling. I've noticed that I can maintain the speed for much longer than a mate who purely uses his arms. I have no doubt that I can make much larger improvements from proper instruction. It's particularly hard to teach yourself from video's when you can't see how your doing things for yourself.
As was said previously that there is a reliance on the safety gear to an extent I would prefer to be fairly confident that I won't need to use it. Both through developed skills and sense not to leave land when it's beyond my levels.


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## gbc

I'm also keen for some professional instruction. Anyone know someone who's available? I'm not a complete gumby so it could be worked into a trip or something?


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## kayakone

bruus said:


> kayakone said:
> 
> 
> 
> nstruction and time, Daniel. I'm with Dru here.
> 
> The first also requiring a bit of cash, because generally you won't get good instruction for free. You must also invest the time post instruction.
> 
> Are you willing for both?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm definately willing for both, when the finances allow for it. Particularly considering the difference I find from simply rotating while paddling. I've noticed that I can maintain the speed for much longer than a mate who purely uses his arms. I have no doubt that I can make much larger improvements from proper instruction. It's particularly hard to teach yourself from video's when you can't see how your doing things for yourself.
> As was said previously that there is a reliance on the safety gear to an extent I would prefer to be fairly confident that I won't need to use it. Both through developed skills and sense not to leave land when it's beyond my levels.
Click to expand...

and ...



gbc said:


> I'm also keen for some professional instruction. Anyone know someone who's available? I'm not a complete gumby so it could be worked into a trip or something?


I'd volunteer, for half the price (mate's rates). But you get what you pay for, usually.


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## dru

Give them Johns contact details K1.

Penultimate trainer in Australia.


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## kayakone

Daniel and gbc

Dru meant Gary's number. You can have my input for peanuts, or Gary Forrest's for some real bucks. I reccomend Gary.

Gary Forrest: Level II sea kayak instructor (Australian Canoeing)

[email protected] or

www.queenslandseakayakinstruction.com.au or

0429 876 955

2 + persons are fine, or

Wait for the next SE Qld Safety Day (just waiting for the water to get *really cold*).


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## gbc

Much obliged Trev. I will make contact with him after Easter.


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## kayakone

gbc said:


> Much obliged Trev. I will make contact with him after Easter.


Bugger!

I was hoping to make $ 50 out of this.


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## dru

kayakone said:


> Daniel and gbc
> 
> Dru meant Gary's number. You can have my input for peanuts, or Gary Forrest's for some real bucks. I reccomend Gary.
> 
> Gary Forrest: Level II sea kayak instructor (Australian Canoeing)


Yep sorry about that. Gary (who I dont really know at all) and John are on another forum I use. John has been excellent on that forum with racing paddling info (wing paddles and fitness performance). Gary is one of two sea kayak instructors in Australia who are considered by many to simply be the best available here. I have heard that a similar kind of guy is available in Perth but cant recall the name. If you are lucky enough to be in one of these cities track them down, it is definitely worth it.


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## kayakone

Maybe some of these captains should have said no (best with the music off IMO)....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtGi42nx ... creen&NR=1


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## Duggo

Any ideas on when the next Brissy safety days may be, and also simple cheap and easy place for a personal gps beacon/epirb device. I want to massively improve my skills, and learn my capabilities, plus be somewhat traceable if I run afoul in croc country!!!


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## kayakone

Duggo said:


> Any ideas on when the next Brissy safety days may be, and also simple cheap and easy place for a personal gps beacon/epirb device. I want to massively improve my skills, and learn my capabilities, plus be somewhat traceable if I run afoul in croc country!!!


"I want to massively improve my skills, and learn my capabilities."

And that is what you will you will achieve if you can come along.

I am planning the next Safety Day in SE Qld (it will be at Scarborough) around August/September, when there is generally good weather, and very cold water. :lol: I may bring it forward if there is a lot of interest.

Expect to pay around $ 400 for a PLB with GPS.

https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_item ... lutePage=1

https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_item ... lutePage=1


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## Duggo

Cold I can do, with a wetsuit , and I can save the cash, not a problem. Few mates are heading to Moreton for Anzac weekend, so were having an impromptu capsize re enter session after setting up camp and before getting serious, and before too many tinnies!!! Bloke who does the best, and the worst wins a lure, spice things up.


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## kayakone

Duggo said:


> Cold I can do, with a wetsuit , and I can save the cash, not a problem. Few mates are heading to Moreton for Anzac weekend, so were having an impromptu capsize re enter session after setting up camp and before getting serious, and before too many tinnies!!! Bloke who does the best, and the worst wins a lure, spice things up.


That's a good idea re prizes Duggo. Remind me when we get the Safety Day happening.


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