# Rotator cuff problems



## Safa (Aug 4, 2006)

I have had some discomfort for awhile now with my right shoulder and just put it down to a old injury that seems to get irritated now and again but lately the pain has become almost unbearable,after some research I definitely have rotator cuff issue and will be booking a appointment today to see how severe it actually is ,so the question is has anyone else on the forum had a problem with there shoulder and if so what route did you take,I'm not keen for surgery and that's my last option (unless absolutely necessary)
The last couple of days has been so painfully when I wake up I literally have to lift my right arm with my left and support it against my body when moving around,it seems to decrease in pain as the day ticks by but still very unfortable.
Geeez I hope that's not the end of my yakking for awhile ,that would be my biggest disappointment .
Any info in the above would be appreciated maybe we have a sports physio or alike on the forum that may have some input 
Thanks 
Safa


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## Safa (Aug 4, 2006)

Only if they cut my arm off mate :lol:


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## andybear (Jan 15, 2006)

Oh bugger!

It might get better, mine did, but it could take some time. I guess it depends how much damage you have. Good luck, and I hope it gets better soon.

Cheers andybear


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

You have to correct your paddle stroke. Dont drag your shoulders back when paddling, twist. What paddle are you using? The only way you'll correct your stoke is with professional coaching.

I use an Osteopath who also does Acupuncture to repair the damage...he's magic.


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## BIGKEV (Aug 18, 2007)

I don't know if that's the case Paul, Clive's stroke seems very fluent and he uses his core well. If you check out some of his vids you'll see this, I could be wrong though.

Good luck with it Clive, hope it all goes well for you.

Kev


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## rodrocket (Apr 24, 2012)

I did mine in loading PA onto roof.
Has now been 1 year and still drives me insane, especially trying to sleep :twisted: 
Suggest physio to have it strapped which may help keeping all in correct position while it heals. Remember how it's done so you can re-do strapping.
It can be long term issue, I think :twisted: 
Good luck.


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

Clive
You have a problem common to regular fishos who catch wahoo and the like. We could expect Chris to join you soon. 

Seriously, AWTY _may_ be onto it, even though Kev suggests you have good technique. For you to be sure, why not engage Craig McSween to check you technique? He is a qualified instructor. If that is the root of the problem you need to fix that, as getting well as relief for the current symptoms. I would consider a physiotherapist for the latter.

Hope you firing again soon.


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## Safa (Aug 4, 2006)

Its a old injury for sure but has come back to haunt me ,lifting anything above my shoulder is impossible at the moment,Paddle technique i agree could use some work i suppose, but i have watched earlier vids against the last couple and even at DIP my shoulder was painful and have notice i dropped my paddle stroke much lower of late purely because it frikken pains to lift my arms higher but hey you do what you have to if you wanna go fishing ,i probably compounded the issue last Saturday going out in a shit easterly swell from Palmy with a few bombs coming through and really had to go like the clappers to get into safe water without warming up the sore shoulder first(ok so just gave myself a LEFT upper cut ) for not warming up so we wont harp on that.
Osteopath you reckon Paul ill look at anything at the moment. BigGee you correct as you still have to load /unload etc so peddling is no option and of course you don't get that itchy scratchy feeling and what would i do with all my Rashies?
Big Kev thanks mate and yip besides cutting my arm off ...............ill be back on the water ASAP to enjoy the trips and laughs that we enjoy so much and the banter of course ,im just waiting for Ol Salticrack to pop up with a winning quack off he's blue duck egg.
Thanks Trev i known that wont hurt to see Craig but its a old injury and not one that has been brought on by paddle technique(which again i do agree may need some tweeking) firstly i think i need to fix the problem shoulder before worrying about nitty grittys of technique .


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## Safa (Aug 4, 2006)

cjbfisher said:


> Hobie. :twisted: :twisted:


Stop swearing at me Chris ill paddle slap ya :twisted:


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

Worth finding out exactly what the injury is with scans etc.
I know a few swimmers that have had rotator cuff injuries, some have had surgery and are up and running (swimming) like new and others like my wife have not had surgery and has been slowly recovering over the last 18 months. I think she should have had the surgery.
It could be a tear, could be calcium build up (not sure on the term for that). I'd spend the time and $$$ finding out exactly what it is and then look at the alternatives.


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## johnny (Aug 12, 2007)

ditto on osteopath to investigating if it is a tear of the ligament...to muscular..no nerve..to a spicule of bone to arthritis wear...chinese pins just stab sensory nerves to stop pain......sacro-occipital chiro[best one in tenterfield,nsw] may help...physios are mechanics only....


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## johnny (Aug 12, 2007)

standard chiros will leave you facing your bum in a wheelchair

and some chinese pin doctors got their licence from a fortune cookie-good ones have 6-9 years university training


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## Bretto (May 23, 2010)

Hey Safa

I've been sporting a similar, if not the same injury on and off for the last 6 years. The problem first surfaced whilst playing cricket, specifically bowling leg spin. I stopped bowling that way and pain went away for a period, but the damage appeared to have already been done (rotator cuff tendon is torn). Once the damage occurred, it crept into other sports, namely my volleyball which I've been playing competitively for about 15 years.

The initial band aid solution was scoffing down pain killers before, during and after competitions which is obviously not the smart option. I happened to be at a tournament about 2 years back where the father of one of my mates was down for the weekend and randomly asked if I had been having shoulder issues. He said he could tell because of the way my right shoulder seemed to be hanging lower than the left. He recommended strapping it to help support it better (the tape would serve the same function as the tendon, i.e. hold the shoulder up.). It obviously wouldn't fix the issue, but would go a ways to mitigating the pain while I played. I used this method for about a year. The extra support eventually led to a lengthy period of time without aggravating it to a point where I no longer needed the strapping tape.

Unfortunately I've recently aggravated it again, so back on the tape.

I strap my shoulder in a similar fashion to this, except that I have my arm stretched out whilst applying the tape rather than on a 45 degree angle.

http://www.physioadvisor.com.au/11855950/shoulder-taping-shoulder-strapping-physioadvis.htm

The options tend to be:
- Do nothing
- Rest it
- Strap it
- See a specialist (exercises/strengthening/acupuncture etc)
- Operation

On the operation front, I know fellow volleyballer who had reconstructive surgery last year. He didn't indicate how bad the injury was prior to surgery but said he was back playing within 2 months (he had good health cover, apparently it didn't hit his wallet all that bad). A good mate of mine is still contemplating surgery for a bad tear. The advice given to him was 1 year out of sport, but the shoulder will be back, stronger than ever.

Personally, that's too long for me to wait. The doctor I saw when my injury first surfaced (2007-2008) advised he wouldn't recommend surgery unless I was prepared to give up sport. I'd say surgical procedures have moved forward since then, however, I'm worried that if I fork out the cash to get the operation now, take a year off sport only to come back and I re-injure it, that's a lot of money down the drain that could be better wasted on fishing gear.


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## CET (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi

I'm a fitness trainer and I did my shoulder in by getting my foot stuck and hitting the deck. I managed to grab my Oxy set trolley to break my fall but buggered my shoulder.

Loading a kayak puts a lot of strain on your shoulder joint and kayakers should do exercises that strengthen shoulder muscles.

Anyway probably you have Bursitis and it will take a lot of time to repair itself. I didn't go to a Doctor because I knew what it was and muscles repair themselves.

How I finally got over it, still less movement than the opposite shoulder tho' ie putting my hand up behind my back, was weight training. When exercising your damaged shoulder only move the weight (a dumbbell) within the range of motion that doesn't hurt. After a while (maybe a long time) the range of motion of your shoulder will slowly increase.

Pete


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## Safa (Aug 4, 2006)

Bretto said:


> Hey Safa
> 
> I've been sporting a similar, if not the same injury on and off for the last 6 years. The problem first surfaced whilst playing cricket, specifically bowling leg spin. I stopped bowling that way and pain went away for a period, but the damage appeared to have already been done (rotator cuff tendon is torn). Once the damage occurred, it crept into other sports, namely my volleyball which I've been playing competitively for about 15 years.
> 
> ...


Thanks Bretto some sound advise and interesting reference Re: Strapping, ill keep you informed


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## Safa (Aug 4, 2006)

keza said:


> Worth finding out exactly what the injury is with scans etc.
> I know a few swimmers that have had rotator cuff injuries, some have had surgery and are up and running (swimming) like new and others like my wife have not had surgery and has been slowly recovering over the last 18 months. I think she should have had the surgery.
> It could be a tear, could be calcium build up (not sure on the term for that). I'd spend the time and $$$ finding out exactly what it is and then look at the alternatives.


Thanks Keza, ill be getting to route of the injury and taking it from there ,and yip thanks to guys relpying and staying on topic.


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## badmotorfinger (Mar 15, 2010)

I've had similar problems and understand how painful it can get. I never got a definitive diagnosis but was some sort of bursitus/tendonitus that got real severe as you describe. Slight problem exists which gets inflamed, inflammation means more impingement, more irritation and it is just a vicious cycle.

Key for me was strengthening the muscles in upper back to stabilise shoulder. Essentially a bunch of exercises that involve squeezing the shoulder blades together and keeping them flat. Then shoulder rotational exercises all whilst focusing on shoulder blade remaining flat and not flaring out.

This has to occur alongside concerted effort to get rid of inflammation. Combination of rest (maybe), anti-inflammatorys and regular icing. I would recommend icing twice daily and after every paddle at minimum. I have similar problem with one knee and have just got used to icing after any exercise likely to irritate the joints and myriad tendons/ligaments/cartilage. Just a symptom of getting old but it can be beaten if you learn about your body and your own strengths and weaknesses.

Will probably be a 6mth process but unavoidable if you want to keep enjoying an active lifestyle. I would recommend possibly seeing a osteo/physio/acupuncturist/massage therapist to help get rid of inflammation and possible related muscle tightness. Physio to help with some joint strengthening and stability exercises. Chemist for ibuprofen and multiple ice packs. Rub salti's belly for luck.


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

I use to think I had the stroke right till an instructor got up me for not. You cant teach yourself, a good instructor will be able to help you. My shoulder will get sore if I dont do it right.

More importantly you need to get the injury seen to, dont just try to do it yourself or ignore it. You've got lots of options.

I'm actually off to my Osteo dude this arvo. My broken arm needs some attention, necks a bit tight, lower backs getting better but just needs some maintenance and my shoulder has been giving me some curry of late. I dont muck around now as soon as I have a persistent pain I get it seen to, cant afford to be not working. I've only recently come across Osteopaths and so far I'm very impressed, but they wont be for everyone.


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## Safa (Aug 4, 2006)

salticrak said:


> Sooo... you have a sore shoulder hey? Good advice here from the fellas for sure.
> 
> I smell a rat though, you see i think you have realized that you were damm lucky with that monster hoo. now you have sleepless nights worrying how you will top that effort. so as to protect your image and ego you have come up with this gippo plan.
> 
> ...


so what you saying Salti is its time for me to hand over the pink rashie to a worthy recipient...............................um no sorry you don't qualify and besides i dont they have enough silk worms in China to make one to fit your Adonis of a body ;-)


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## DennisT (Jan 2, 2012)

Safa said:


> i dont they have enough silk worms in China to make one to fit your Adonis of a body ;-)


What do you mean clive ???


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

Honest, it's one of the most common paddling injuries and can end up stopping the sport. Hate to say it paddling style is the longer term solution, but that wont help you improve to start with. I used Massuese in Brisbane who works the pressure points and other things. I guess it counts as alternative therapy. Physio would be good but my bloke is better. Let me know if you want the contact. Even he couldnt stop repeat inflamation until I sought coaching.

In the mean time from Surfski.info: http://www.surfski.info/getting-started ... rehab.html

Hope it helps (btw I would not contemplate surgery until I tested the alternatives including acupuncture.)


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

Here are two more that might help in a generic paddling health way - From the Lane Cove River kayakers club.

http://www.lcrk.org.au/pmwiki/uploads/M ... andout.pdf

http://www.lcrk.org.au/pmwiki/uploads/M ... andout.pdf


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## onemorecast (Apr 17, 2006)

As Keza said get it checked and have a scan that will tell you what's really going on.

I had my rotator cuff tendon repaired about 18 months ago. Recovery from the surgery is frickin painful, takes a while and not having the use of your shoulder is pretty limiting.

My shoulder was getting slowly worse over a couple years and then I think I tore it more in an over 45's soccer match near the end of the season. When it got too hard to sleep I had it checked. Tear and an impingement. The shoulder doctor gave me a choice of a cortisone shot to relieve the pain and continue on, or surgically repairing it. He didn't push either, but did say the tear wouldn't heal. He also said loads of blokes tear tendons in their shoulders as they start to get into their 30's and 40's. They tend to live with them until the tear gets worse and then they have them repaired usually in their 40's and 50's.

It took a while but mine came about 85% good from a year and half ago. If you are diligent with the physio (I wasn't) you'll get a better result.

Good luck with it.


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## Safa (Aug 4, 2006)

Thanks for all the info again links , guys the picture is looking bleak for near future but there is light at the end of the tunnel its going to be a long tunnel i think ,seeing Physio tomorrow (also a Paddler) and im sure after scans etc i will have a better idea of the severity of my injury .So get out there and catch some fish i will probably be watching lots of fish porn on AKFF !


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## Safa (Aug 4, 2006)

dru said:


> Here are two more that might help in a generic paddling health way - From the Lane Cove River kayakers club.
> 
> http://www.lcrk.org.au/pmwiki/uploads/M ... andout.pdf
> 
> http://www.lcrk.org.au/pmwiki/uploads/M ... andout.pdf


Great links thanks Dru ...............Printed and laminated already ,a good link for everyone if you have not yet seen them as i know 90% of us don't stretch etc before going out and you dont want to end with the prob i have now.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

Safa said:


> dru said:
> 
> 
> > Here are two more that might help in a generic paddling health way - From the Lane Cove River kayakers club.
> ...


Saffa, you have my sympathies,rotator cuff is simply a bitch that needs long considered work. I think you are approaching it totally right. Speak up when you inevitably need support.


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## Cresta57 (Oct 30, 2011)

I had chronic bursitis in my right shoulder last year. I suffered for a long time thinking it would just go away by itself. When it got to the stage where I couldn't sleep at night I saw my doc. He suggested rest but I'm a self employed tiler so not an option unless I go bankrupt. I opted to get a second opinion & the next Doc was much more aware of sporting/work related injuries. He advised a cortisone injection followed by a minimum of 5 days rest then a physio appointment. I had several follow-up appointments & learned how to exercise to build up the muscle & pull my shoulder back into position. I was sceptical of physio but it worked very well. Took 9 months to heal fully with 3 cortisone injections & 8 physio sessions. I still do the exercises if I get a slight twinge after a big floor or two. I do try & maintain correct posture rather than letting my shoulders droop forward it helps. Very lucky not to have torn it but the bursitis was bad enough...


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2013)

salticrak said:


> Need a latte big fella. As for the porn, I am wiling to oblige, watch this space.


I new this was going to get good soon but remember salti this is a g rated site. I'll have another topic up soon to give everyone a laugh.


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## grinner (May 15, 2008)

hay bud, 
the shoulder is just such a complex joint.
the knee and the elbow are simple hinges.
the shoulder can do many many trick movements (look up circumduction  ). unlike the knee which has 2 internal ligaments, the hip which has 1 and the elbow which has none, the shoulder has a stack. probably 6 tendons and 3 ligaments and the joint is held together by these (the so called rotator cuff)
now ligaments and tendons are like ropes or bungy cords. they are essentially sinews. they have poor blood supply inside them (which is why they are white and dont bleed like muscles) 
if you could imagine getting 8 little ropes and bunging them in a very tight space and then having them pulling in odd directions, you can see why they soon start rubbing on each other (ie friction).

the bodies response to friction is to pump fluid into the area (check out marathon runners blisters) this fluid build up is called bursitis.
this tightens the whole area and the little ropes rubbing on each other get even less fresh blood and become unhappy  due to the fact they are now swimming in a pool of inflamed liquid(inflamed as in, has chemicals which cause pain, hence why ANTI inflamatories work, anti inflamatories are all based on aspirin and go by the names naprosyn, bruffen, voltaren etc)

unhappy tendons try to protect themselves by "toughening up' this often makes them brittle, stiff and they will sometimes get little ****** of calcium in them (essentially like bone) this only makes the whole area more prone to friction and less able to recieve the oxygen and nutrients it needs to function.so the little ****** of bone act like a handful of sand chucked down the pistons of your car engine...yukky.

so, getting back to basics, the rotator cuff often "goes" when chucking a kayak on the roof because it has slowly been becoming more unhealthy due to long periods of moderately traumatic damage. in other words what SEEMS like a sudden injury may just be "the straw which broke the camels back" you may have been slowly developing un healthy soft tissues and then one little stiff unhappy sucker goes TWANG
thus, the tendons have just not been recovering from the daily grind and this is the nature of all RSI or "repetitive micro trauma injuries" this is why RSI is a workcover minefield (but i digress)

what i'm getting at is that to have "good shoulders" you need to get back to basics.

anything that cuts down nutrients and recovery to these little fellas will slowly accumulate damage.

so smoking cuts oxygen, diabetes cuts oxygen, cholesterol cuts oxygen. indeed smoking diabeteic almost universally end up with terrible shoulders.
to get the area healthy you need to get the swelling out ,
ice and heat and anti inflamatories.

now all the stuff about scans and physios and exercise is spot on. you need to learn not to get those little ropes rubbing on each other. you need to use common sense and not do monster paddles, or if you do you need to have good technique and maybe get the ice and heat out when you get home to flush some healing nutrients in there.

finally, the shoulder is not a good operative candidate. ops always cause scarring and scar is bloodless, stiff and causes more friction and problems.

all the best, cav , good to see you did well . i can point to plenty of ops which didnt go quite as well. i bet i know that surgeons name.

hint , if you want a good specialist ring michael voss or darren lockyer and see who they recommend. elite sportspeople always get the cream


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## Safa (Aug 4, 2006)

grinner said:


> hay bud,
> the shoulder is just such a complex joint.
> the knee and the elbow are simple hinges.
> the shoulder can do many many trick movements (look up circumduction  ). unlike the knee which has 2 internal ligaments, the hip which has 1 and the elbow which has none, the shoulder has a stack. probably 6 tendons and 3 ligaments and the joint is held together by these (the so called rotator cuff)
> ...


chewed up some voltaren yesterday iced the shoulder etc,pain was almost unbearable yesterday but feels a bit more comfortable today without the feeling of some one pushing a knitting needle in my shoulder.
Seeing phsio today


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## Safa (Aug 4, 2006)

In a Nut shell this just back from the physio and to cut a long story short it sounds like i have Rotator cuff tendonitis ,caused by irritation and inflammation of the tendons of the rotator cuff muscles. It tends to have an acute (sudden) onset. There is often a specific preceding injury which is in my case correct.
Sometimes the rotator cuff tendons can become calcified. Apparently this is when calcium is deposited in the tendons, due to long-standing inflammation and called calcific tendonitis. 
So i need to continue with anti inflammatories ,ice it 3 times a day until Friday and if its no better then we will do a scan etc he did strap me up and to rest it in a sling if possible.
Basically due to the on going severe pain and restrictive movement he believes it may just be serious inflamation , i can not lift my arm in front or on my side higher than about 45 deg without pain,but i can reach behind me to tuck my shirt in with little discomfort comparatively speaking
Here's hoping it comes good and is not serious, he also did some ultra sound to break down the inflamation.
Till Friday ................i think ill still give it a good rest regardless


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2013)

So we can book you in for the normal Sunday paddle then Clive.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2013)

salticrak said:


> get well soon sweetcheeks. Tick, tick, tick, tick, zzzzzzzzz Saltis on! :twisted:


Oh look you caught a grinner


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## rob316 (Oct 2, 2007)

Same problems a year or 4 ago, actually got a frozen shoulder from it, I noticed it started really getting to me after I used a carbon wing paddle - so just a suggestion - if you are using this type of paddle, then try a decent f/glass flat blade and see if that takes the stress off of it as there is more give in them...my definate surgery has been on hold for a couple of years since I did this...Rob


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2013)

Nah I was at the other end of the country.


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## HAWKEYE3 (Jan 8, 2009)

I would get yourself checked out for Ross River Virus. When I had it, it affected both shoulders and I couldn't lift a pencil above shoulder height and found it very difficult to don a tee shirt. I have had Bursitis in the left shoulder as well.

Not long ago (last 2 years) there was a program on TV re using a warm castor oil poultice to the affected area. The poultice is protected with plastic to optimize the take up of the oil and to keep the area warm.

The only other thing I could suggest for pain relief is fish oil/omega three compounds to lubricate the tendon & sheath.

Regards

Ian


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## Cresta57 (Oct 30, 2011)

grinner said:


> hay bud,
> the shoulder is just such a complex joint.
> the knee and the elbow are simple hinges.
> the shoulder can do many many trick movements (look up circumduction  ). unlike the knee which has 2 internal ligaments, the hip which has 1 and the elbow which has none, the shoulder has a stack. probably 6 tendons and 3 ligaments and the joint is held together by these (the so called rotator cuff)
> ...


Thanks for that, I wish my doc had explained things as clearly early on in the treatment.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

rob316 said:


> Same problems a year or 4 ago, actually got a frozen shoulder from it, I noticed it started really getting to me after I used a carbon wing paddle - so just a suggestion - if you are using this type of paddle, then try a decent f/glass flat blade and see if that takes the stress off of it as there is more give in them...my definate surgery has been on hold for a couple of years since I did this...Rob


Hey, Rob.

Wings have an excellent purpose. That purpose is racing. hard to think how this purpose gels with yak fishing. Maybe with a very small percentage of yakkers. Maybe. But actually shaft length will be just as important, and ultimately technique. There is a technique that looks after long term injuries. Worth checking out by anyone doing a bit of paddling on a consistent basis.

[edit] there is a Way to paddle a wing without long term injury as well. But they are high performance. High performance speed, high performance drive, and high performance contribution to injury. Like a Porsche. High performance speed, high performance acceleration, but if you hit the wall, high performance crash.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

OK so maybe some tips. Shamelessly stolen from surfski.info

If I use a car racing analogy again, I can follow what the drivers are doing in their Commodores in the Bathurst 1000. It's instructive. But while I love it, I simply don't understand what the drivers are doing in F1. Beyond me, mostly. So let's start with my paddling equivalent of the Bathurst. This stroke will not create rotator cuff issues. Solid for life.





Now for our Formula 1 equivalent, it's a little old but suits the purpose.





Bugger me, in paddling, the really good guys are just really good whether it's commodore or F1. OK OK what relevance to me when I just want to get to the fishing spot? Well some. If you launch local to yor spot and only make a few hundred strokes, what the hey. but if you need a few k paddling, technique will reduce your physic bill.

I am not the right guy to continue, but I will on the basis that I'll get closer than than some. We are trying to avoid injury. Wing increases risk but it's not the real issue. Which is about how you use your body to work the paddle. There are actually an infinite number of subtle variations in paddling style from these professionals, and not all good as something to strive for. Particularly from the sprinters. But on the whole what we want is torso rotation. Ideally the shoulders should not rotate more than the hips ( this is a new lesson for me), and we get less rotation on our wider yaks than the racers. ALL THE MORE IMPORTANT to use the rotation that is available. Most of our SOTs we have the ability to leg drive, so the left blade in the water should also have the left leg extended.

But the only real method to get this is to be shown. By an expert. They are your shoulders, are they worth the training?

So some tips (again my opinion]

1 there are more long term injuries from so called low angle paddling than high angle paddling - it tends to mean no rotation
2 a high angle encourages rotation
3 long paddles increase the problem because they increase the lever arm. Shorter is almost always better.
4 high angle can become excessive and lead to injury, generally you wont see this unless you are racing K1's and are extending paddle length for resistance training (not sure this applies to us)
5 get some training


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## Safa (Aug 4, 2006)

I agree Dru,
But this is where i have a problem all these instructional video are on skinny boats ,I have tried this technique on my evo and i do have a carbon wing paddle its just too wide or maybe are my arms are too short. Paddle length is 211cm ,im going to try a flat blade as some people surggest and see if that helps ,as for the videos if thats the way to do it im doing all wrong perhaps due to the old injury and just find the lower position does not fatigue the shoulder as much but hey im willing to change to anything to sort out the problem.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

I completely agree. Boat width complicates what happens with rotation. Also the fish hatch means you can't get the legs close which is part of the ideal for hip rotation.

I find that it is easy to ignore hip rotation into the catch because its so early in the rotate. But then locking hip and shoulder rotation together ( which tends to constrain rotation) is easier. Btw I think that's a key difference between Zsolt (first vid) and Brabants (second vid). Brabants shoulder rotation matches his hops, no spine twisting. This seriously locks your paddle power into the torso and abdomen. More oomph there means less oomph in your shoulders looking to create trouble.

This is one of those issues that shows the sophistry in a belief that wings encourage good rotation. They do encourage rotation but not necessarily correct rotation. (Endless argument as to what that means).

The other thing is to not be scared of letting the top hand go wide with the bottom hand.

211cm is not too long, I have my flat blade set at 206cm and the wing I just bought is 210. This is for the SIK. On the Stealth I need more length because you sit higher.

It's worth looking for a coach, and here I am not talking a safety style sea kayak thing, but a ski coach for input solely on the forward stroke and a view to injury prevention on a wide yak. I had a 45 min session last week with a very experienced flat water guy. Left me completely discombobulated and unco. But I stuck with it or at least what I can remember. My physio noticed. Honest, many problems I had been having just disappeared, in one week.


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## Gozz (Jan 30, 2011)

How u going fellers. 
I have both of my shoulders stuffed from concreting every day. 
Same sort of thing as u guys, pain in the mornings and having to hold opposite shoulder to turn alarm off on the bed side table. 
My mate had surgery on both his shoulders and reckons the pain went away but he lost full extension so now he can't lift his arms over his head fully. 
My mates in the medical field and reckons you must go with a surgeon with a good reputation or u might end up worse then before.


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## gbc (Feb 16, 2012)

I feel for you blokes. Last November I was holidaying on Heron Island. I woke in the middle of the night having what I could only assume was a heart attack. I had intense throbbing pain from the point of my left shoulder to my sternum, straight through my heart, and difficulty breathing. Luckily they have a nurse on the island and she was straight onto the hospital for obs and advice from a doctor - they were quite happy to call for the chopper, and if I hadn't bought the hospitality pack with free grog, I may have considered it. Seriously though it turned out to be an impinged rotator. Luckily for me I am a busted ex footballer and carpenter so I have weekly bookings with an awesome physio and he managed to rectify it over time.
If it makes you feel any better, I'm off in the morning for 3 days living out of the yak on the upper Noosa river - had to tell someone 
Good luck with it.


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## duke98 (Jan 13, 2010)

I did my rotator cuff a few years ago, anti inflams and very light rehab for 18 months saw it come good until I tore the tendon to the point where surgery is the only option to repair correctly. I work for myself and can not afford the time off so I opted to buy a TENS/EMS machine off ebay, saw the GP and got some more anti inflams along with a qaterzone shot. Light workouts and paddling are ok but sleeping is a little difficult so another shot is coming soon. Can only expect 3-4 months relief with this. Hope this helps.


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## BIGKEV (Aug 18, 2007)

gbc said:


> If it makes you feel any better, I'm off in the morning for 3 days living out of the yak on the upper Noosa river - had to tell someone


Nah it's cool, you can have the Noosa at this time of year......bass closed season ;-)


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## Gozz (Jan 30, 2011)

I got the stage where I didn't want to go fishing cause it was so hard to load my kayak on the roof which was made even harder cause I have a Nissan patrol and the thing is very high. 
The yak needs to be loaded on the roof then taken off at the fishing spot then loaded again to go home the taken off again when u get home. 
I ended up loading my kayak from the bullbar and pushing it straight up onto the roof(roof racks).
Now I only need to lift the yak onto the bullbar and not the roof. 
I now use my body weight to get it up on top. 
Here is a pic.


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## Safa (Aug 4, 2006)

nah Dawg ill be back stronger so the fish had better be nervous!


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## Safa (Aug 4, 2006)

A quick update on my shoulder and its looking really good ,I think I've turned the corner and on the mend,had 3 sessions at the physio ,ill make a decision on Friday if I should still go for a scan and get a cortisone shot. :?


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

Fabulous news Safa!


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## gcfisho (Oct 31, 2009)

Ive got it in both from years of carpet cleaning. After plenty of physio I have found rowing excercises at the gym have helped.One of the most important things is to lock it into position first so your isolating the spot your working. Its been hard work and ive been through some pain, I wouldn't say there perfect but at least I don't need medication anymore. Good posture is also an important part in rehab.


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

Safa said:


> A quick update on my shoulder and its looking really good ,I think I've turned the corner and on the mend,had 3 sessions at the physio ,ill make a decision on Friday if I should still go for a scan and get a cortisone shot. :?


Go Clive!

Hoping all well mate. You will certainly go mad watching TV.


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## carnster (May 27, 2008)

An injury like that sounds like a nightmare. Hope you are back on the water soon Clive.


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## HiRAEdd (Nov 12, 2005)

Safa said:


> A quick update on my shoulder and its looking really good ,I think I've turned the corner and on the mend,had 3 sessions at the physio ,ill make a decision on Friday if I should still go for a scan and get a cortisone shot. :?


I'm late to the discussion but I injured my shoulder in December last year. Turned out to be Bursitis due to weak rotator cuff muscles. Took five months of physio to correct the issue and I'm stronger than ever now.


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## Safa (Aug 4, 2006)

HiRAEdd said:


> Safa said:
> 
> 
> > A quick update on my shoulder and its looking really good ,I think I've turned the corner and on the mend,had 3 sessions at the physio ,ill make a decision on Friday if I should still go for a scan and get a cortisone shot. :?
> ...


Another update..............not good news ,i went for a scan and x-rays yesterday as i've hit a wall with the shoulder it was looking good and thought id turned the corner but now its stagnant and still uncomfortable after physio/rest/strapping /2 weeks voltaren blah blah blah....................turns out i have calcification in 3 of the 4 tendons and bursitis just to round it off .They going to give me a steroid injection directly into the bursa with the aid of a ultra sound scan on Wednesday ,Doc reckons very little kayaking in the future as the repetitive movements may flare it up again  Ill see how i go after that and then make a decision as to how ill keep fishing or on whta ill keep fishing 8)


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## HiRAEdd (Nov 12, 2005)

Safa said:


> HiRAEdd said:
> 
> 
> > Safa said:
> ...


On the plus side, my Wife had calcification on the tendons and she had two of those steroid injections (one each side) and it's cleared it up quick smart. May not help your long term kayakability but I'm sure you won't miss the constant pain.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

Yep, play it out Saffa, you never know. And I never heard before such a solid argument for the mirage drive. Play for the longer term and see how it goes.

All the best.


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## Safa (Aug 4, 2006)

salticrak said:


> Hello hobie boy.


yummy jet sorries for you ne'


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