# Religious vilification



## kayakone

Most of you will recall that around Easter I was banned for posting Christian content in 'Soapbox', and according to the mods, creating many complaints and work for them. Besides that, I was vilified for Christian content I posted in Main in two threads over the past few years.

I have for weeks considered taking action under rules of Anti Discrimination (and Vilification) Commissions in various states. Well, you can all relax now.

According to the transcripts I have received, which initially were wiped, there are a lot of people who may well be worried right now. I have received two apologies already, but do not expect any more, nor will I ask for any. To avoid any further worry, and in the interests of harmony, I put this out to all forums, including the 'shed', so that people are no longer worried.

I have decided to take NO ACTION with the various Anti Discrimination Commissions, NOR WILL I EVER DO SO. I would like everyone to know that.

There is a lesson here though, that I feel should be learned. Some of the comments made to me were very hurtful, solely because the poster disagreed with my Christian beliefs.

The law in Australia states that: "Vilification is different from discrimination. Whilst discrimination involves unfair treatment, vilification is a _public act _that incites others to hate you or your group, have serious contempt for you, or severely ridicule you, because of your religion. This sort of hatred can show up in websites."

That is the end of the matter forever. Let us get on with fishing and sharing the good times, and the donuts.


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## Shoey

Hi Kayakone.

Its good that you have "decided" not to proceed with any legal action, but announcing it here after the damage has been done is poor form! Surely a pm or text (you seem to have all their numbers) to those involved would have been more of an impact than trying to gain points in the main forum.

I'm a Catholic (non practising) and am not bothered by your hymns, but surely this isn't the place to post them unless you are prepared for whatever comes your way. That was my understanding of the 'Soapbox" forum.

I work hard to provide for my family, running a small business. Nothing shits me more than endless telemarketers interrupting my day and my productivity, ringing me every 30 minutes trying to sell me shit I already have or don't want! Then when I do get home and get a chance to sit down and crack open a beer, I get some prick knocking at the door offering some sort of religious stuff I have absolutely no interest in.

I see what you did as being no different! Members *came* here for whatever reason, but im sure they *didn't* come here to be bashed about the ears with the religious beliefs of others. They also *didn't* come here for the spam that is so similar to the annoying telemarketers that give us the shits day in day out!

Ive been a member on this forum pretty much since the start back in '05'. In the early days I would sit and wait for replies to my posts or posts that I contributed to. It took a while, but I soon realised I was spending more time on the computer than I was spending on my family. In 9 years I have racked up almost 900 posts. I admit I have stepped back from posting, but I login to both forums every day and contribute when I feel like it.
In less than 4 years you have racked up over 8000 posts. Im sorry, but I think you need to spend less time on the keyboard and spend more time with those that really matter to you, wouldn't that be more Christian?

Just my observation of the whole episode!


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## kayakone

Thanks Gerard, but I didn't really want a response. I posted that to save those who vilified me to stop worrying worry, so that they could settle back to normal life without any threats from State Governments. I am not interested in your views on the matter, as you obviously do not have the facts, and the matter is done and put to bed. (I have very few numbers or emails, and cannot contact anyone from the 'shed)'.

Post counts are immaterial....it is the overall contribution one makes that count to his fellow yak fisherman, and the helpfulness of that information that matter, as to whether you have contributed to the forum in a positive way to help or entertain others.

Thank you for your contributions to date, many of which I missed, as I joined less than four years ago. I suggest you chill out. I had no part in the decision to sell the forum. If you doubt that, contact Scott McDonald directly.

All the best in your kayak fishing adventures.


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## Shoey

All good here, I cant get any more chilled tonight.

You are correct, I don't have all the facts, but as I said I login everyday.

If you didn't want a reply you shouldn't have created a post and simply let 'the matter be put to bed'.

You are 100% correct! Post counts are immaterial, I am sure your overall contribution of 8200 plus posts have been well worth the time away from your loved ones, im sure* this *yak fishing community thanks you for them.

I honestly thought the members who left this site were being a bit too precious, thinking it was theirs, but something about this post struck a chord and I can see that as a result AKFF will never be the same.

As yet I have not visited 'The Shed', I was happy to see how things panned out here. I have met some good people here, contributed to the formation of a kayak fishing club and learnt many things along the way.

Could the mods/ new owners please delete my account.


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## kayakone

Shoey said:


> All good here, I cant get any more chilled tonight.
> 
> You are correct, I don't have all the facts, but as I said I login everyday.
> 
> If you didn't want a reply you shouldn't have created a post and simply let 'the matter be put to bed'.
> 
> You are 100% correct! Post counts are immaterial, I am sure your overall contribution of 8200 plus posts have been well worth the time away from your loved ones, im sure* this *yak fishing community thanks you for them.
> 
> I honestly thought the members who left this site were being a bit too precious, thinking it was theirs, but something about this post struck a chord and I can see that as a result AKFF will never be the same.
> 
> As yet I have not visited 'The Shed', I was happy to see how things panned out here. I have met some good people here, contributed to the formation of a kayak fishing club and learnt many things along the way.
> 
> Could the mods/ new owners please delete my account.


Thanks Shoey. We will never visit this again, hopefully. That is truly brave of you to admit you do not have all the facts. The main anger was from people who felt they were never consulted, and their 'intellectual rights' had been violated. I am not about to get into a detailed description of what actually happened. There are many good people who contributed so much knowledge, you and myself included, that felt they had been 'robbed'. I think of the Sydney and Canberra people, who felt violated, but again I will not get into a discussion about the facts. Thank you for replying and admitting you don't know the facts.

The point is it Scott is not to be blamed. He 'owned' the site, and like many of us put in massive hours behind the scenes to keep things running. His 'snap' decision was not a snap decision, and others had bearing on what actually caused him to sell.

The only thing to take away is memories, and shared knowledge, and that we all share a love of kayaking and fishing. What a wonderful world it is.


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## jhbc123

hey kayakone,....just give it rest


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## vladimir

I believe in Jesus aswell brother it we need to bear in mind this is a fishing forum and it's here to discuss fishing topics as for other off topics there are other forums for that Very purpose I hope this has provided some wisdom and knowledge for all of us on this forum cheers keep fishing


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## jatzo

Even as an atheist, and not having all the facts but a general idea of what went down, I find this particularly unchristian, manipulative behaviour really pissed me off&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.



kayakone said:


> Most of you will recall that around Easter I was banned for posting Christian content in 'Soapbox', and according to the mods, creating many complaints and work for them. Besides that, I was vilified for Christian content I posted in Main in two threads over the past few years.
> 
> I have for weeks considered taking action under rules of Anti Discrimination (and Vilification) Commissions in various states. Well, you can all relax now.
> 
> According to the transcripts I have received, which initially were wiped, there are a lot of people who may well be worried right now. I have received two apologies already, but do not expect any more, nor will I ask for any. To avoid any further worry, and in the interests of harmony, I put this out to all forums, including the 'shed', so that people are no longer worried.
> 
> I have decided to take NO ACTION with the various Anti Discrimination Commissions, NOR WILL I EVER DO SO. I would like everyone to know that.
> 
> There is a lesson here though, that I feel should be learned. Some of the comments made to me were very hurtful, solely because the poster disagreed with my Christian beliefs.
> 
> The law in Australia states that: "Vilification is different from discrimination. Whilst discrimination involves unfair treatment, vilification is a _public act _that incites others to hate you or your group, have serious contempt for you, or severely ridicule you, because of your religion. This sort of hatred can show up in websites."
> 
> That is the end of the matter forever. Let us get on with fishing and sharing the good times, and the donuts.


This idea of religious vilification and veiled threats of litigation are pathetic K1. This is 2014 and the laws you quote are now defunct and irrelevant to what happened here. There is a difference between inciting hatred and criticism. If you choose to adopt a world view based on a ridiculous, childish fairytale, then that is your prerogative. But when you attempt to exploit a fishing site relentlessly to spread this rubbish online, then do not expect not to be criticised. You want a debate then great, but don't go crying to the moderators continually when your easily made out to look like a fool.

The moderators were completely justified in attempting to moderate, and eventually forced to ban you for your continual attempts at exploitation of the site, complaints from other members, and your continual complaints of persecution. All for what i said before is an infantile philosophical world view. If you want to rant on about your childhood proxy big meta daddy in the sky, (or all three of them!?), without expecting debate and criticism, then go to a jumping jesus site and sing kumbaya and chant christian hymns there. Just letting you know, you do not live in a christian bubble anymore, especially online. Your proposition of a legal basis of litigation for christian vilification is absurd - consider the likes of Richard Dawkins, Lawrence Krauss, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Ricky Gervais, the islamists, the jews, the hindus, budists etc etc etc.

If your delusional claim was in fact reality, the judicial systems world wide would be clogged to capacity. Ever heard of separation of church and state. Any magistrate would laugh in your vacuous face - oh dear banned from a kayak fishing site for being an annoying online missionary! Your threats were all impotent, and I'm not sure why they were even taken seriously by some - according to you "worried right now". Suspect this is another of your many delusions. But you were successful in the end, so why not rename the site K1's ACKFF (K1's Australian Christian Kayak Fishing Forum). Congratulations. Also, why not have the guts to reveal your new identity on the new site, so we can take the piss out of you there?

Cheers, next time turn the other cheek, my gullible friend.


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## Cuda

Seems to me you are tarring all Christians with the same brush Jatzo. I respect your right to your view, but I don't respect some of the words you choose to use.


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## ScreamingDrag

We all need to remember why this site was created, why we joined, and why we continue to be active members of it. The beauty of fishing is that anyone anywhere can do it. Maybe that's what we should leave it at...


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## kayakone

Wise words Cuda and Screaming Drag. Appreciated. Let's hope that is the end of it.


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## Guest

jatzo said:


> Also, why not have the guts to reveal your new identity on the new site, so we can take the piss out of you there?.


Subject heading of this post says it all quite succinctly I feel. :lol:


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## carnster

jatzo said:


> Even as an atheist, and not having all the facts but a general idea of what went down, I find this particularly unchristian, manipulative behaviour really pissed me off&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.
> 
> 
> 
> kayakone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most of you will recall that around Easter I was banned for posting Christian content in 'Soapbox', and according to the mods, creating many complaints and work for them. Besides that, I was vilified for Christian content I posted in Main in two threads over the past few years.
> 
> I have for weeks considered taking action under rules of Anti Discrimination (and Vilification) Commissions in various states. Well, you can all relax now.
> 
> According to the transcripts I have received, which initially were wiped, there are a lot of people who may well be worried right now. I have received two apologies already, but do not expect any more, nor will I ask for any. To avoid any further worry, and in the interests of harmony, I put this out to all forums, including the 'shed', so that people are no longer worried.
> 
> I have decided to take NO ACTION with the various Anti Discrimination Commissions, NOR WILL I EVER DO SO. I would like everyone to know that.
> 
> There is a lesson here though, that I feel should be learned. Some of the comments made to me were very hurtful, solely because the poster disagreed with my Christian beliefs.
> 
> The law in Australia states that: "Vilification is different from discrimination. Whilst discrimination involves unfair treatment, vilification is a _public act _that incites others to hate you or your group, have serious contempt for you, or severely ridicule you, because of your religion. This sort of hatred can show up in websites."
> 
> That is the end of the matter forever. Let us get on with fishing and sharing the good times, and the donuts.
> 
> 
> 
> This idea of religious vilification and veiled threats of litigation are pathetic K1. This is 2014 and the laws you quote are now defunct and irrelevant to what happened here. There is a difference between inciting hatred and criticism. If you choose to adopt a world view based on a ridiculous, childish fairytale, then that is your prerogative. But when you attempt to exploit a fishing site relentlessly to spread this rubbish online, then do not expect not to be criticised. You want a debate then great, but don't go crying to the moderators continually when your easily made out to look like a fool.
> 
> The moderators were completely justified in attempting to moderate, and eventually forced to ban you for your continual attempts at exploitation of the site, complaints from other members, and your continual complaints of persecution. All for what i said before is an infantile philosophical world view. If you want to rant on about your childhood proxy big meta daddy in the sky, (or all three of them!?), without expecting debate and criticism, then go to a jumping jesus site and sing kumbaya and chant christian hymns there. Just letting you know, you do not live in a christian bubble anymore, especially online. Your proposition of a legal basis of litigation for christian vilification is absurd - consider the likes of Richard Dawkins, Lawrence Krauss, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Ricky Gervais, the islamists, the jews, the hindus, budists etc etc etc.
> 
> If your delusional claim was in fact reality, the judicial systems world wide would be clogged to capacity. Ever heard of separation of church and state. Any magistrate would laugh in your vacuous face - oh dear banned from a kayak fishing site for being an annoying online missionary! Your threats were all impotent, and I'm not sure why they were even taken seriously by some - according to you "worried right now". Suspect this is another of your many delusions. But you were successful in the end, so why not rename the site K1's ACKFF (K1's Australian Christian Kayak Fishing Forum). Congratulations. Also, why not have the guts to reveal your new identity on the new site, so we can take the piss out of you there?
> 
> Cheers, next time turn the other cheek, my gullible friend.
Click to expand...

Is that you Big Kev? :lol:


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## jatzo

No, just me the original jatzo. Same as on the other site.


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## Guest

Jatzo, I have no idea (and no desire to find out) who you actually are in real life, or what you called yourself here before you stormed off in a huff. But your detailed explanation of what supposedly went down here a while back combined with your somewhat jaundiced view of acceptable forum behaviour suggests you were a bit closer to the action than most. It is puzzling then why you would want to come back here.

Don't get me wrong mate, you have every right to carry on like a pork chop, especially now that you have a pseudonym to cover your tracks. But why bother when you could piss take to your hearts content, and get plaudits for it, over at that other place.


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## blahger

Make love not war.

http://sexinchrist.com/fist.html


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## rodbender

Why the hell is this still going on old news. Get over it get a life.


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## kayakone

rodbender said:


> Why the hell is this still going on old news. Get over it get a life.


Rodbender, ask Blahger (and a few others from 'the shed'). The next one I may change my mind and follow through, though I don't really want to have a fellow kayaker charged for vilification. I actually have met many of the Sydney /Canberra guys, and they are genenerally tops. We all share a love of paddling/fishing. Generally they've let it go....think before you post again.



jatzo said:


> Even as an atheist, and not having all the facts but a general idea of what went down, I find this particularly unchristian, manipulative behaviour really pissed me off&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.


Jatzo
I feel you don't know what a Christian believes or how they behave. Please stop coming here and just stick to the 'the shed'.

Some of the comments made to me were very hurtful, solely because the poster disagreed with my Christian beliefs. The law in Australia states that: *"Vilification is different from discrimination. Whilst discrimination involves unfair treatment, vilification is a public act that incites others to hate you or your group, have serious contempt for you, or severely ridicule you, because of your religion. This sort of hatred can show up in websites.* That is the end of the matter forever. Let us get on with fishing and sharing the good times, and the donuts.[/quote]



jatzo said:


> This is 2014 and the laws you quote are now defunct and irrelevant to what happened here.


Defunct? Really? Go on, goad me. Try one more time, and we'll all see what is fact.



jatzo said:


> This idea of religious vilification and veiled threats of litigation are pathetic K1


.



jatzo said:


> There is a difference between inciting hatred and criticism. If you choose to adopt a world view based on a ridiculous, childish fairytale, then that is your prerogative. Your proposition of a legal basis of litigation for Christian vilification is absurd - consider the likes of Richard Dawkins, Lawrence Krauss, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Ricky Gervais, the islamists, the jews, the hindus, budists etc etc etc.


Dawkins still has no answer to the question, "Give me one example of non-life becoming life?' (he's had several years to answer the question).


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## jatzo

K1, since this is now a theological fishing site, can you give a detailed explanation (for the benefit of all on the now ACKFF) - when you engage in christian prayer (talk to yourself), what is actually happening (if anything) on a mechanistic level in your mind, or the physical universe? Do you prey for the health and well being of your self and your loved ones, or all the other billions?



kayakone said:


> Defunct? Really? Go on, goad me. Try one more time, and we'll all see what is fact.


I'm sorry, but you resorting to legal threats following critique appears to highlight the fragility of your confidence in, and understanding of, your christian 'faith'.



kayakone said:


> Dawkins still has no answer to the question, "Give me one example of non-life becoming life?' (he's had several years to answer the question).


"several years," surely you jest! How old is the earth K1? The unanswered or unexplained phenomena we observe in reality are the most interesting questions. Uncertainty is not bad - it is the motivating and regulating force in science. But you would prefer one single, simple minded, imagined, non evidence based explanation of a stone age people that you were told as a young child, out of the infinite number of explanations for this question _a-priori_. Dawkins et al. are honest regarding this, you and your manipulative brethren are not.



kayakone said:


> Some of the comments made to me were very hurtful, solely because the poster disagreed with my Christian beliefs


How is this in any way even christian? To disagree is to hurt? Ask yourself if you subscribe to that philosophical world view - "what would jesus do?" Hence my comment "turn the other cheek." Instead you created a shit storm, and destroyed an excellent site that many had contributed to. It's now your very own ACKFF.
Enjoy.
cheers.


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## AdrianK

This is awesome!

Now, if only we had a bear on a tricycle....


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## scarbynewby

.


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## AdrianK

scarbynewby said:


> AdrianK said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is awesome!
> 
> Now, if only we had a bear on a tricycle....
> 
> 
> 
> I think we already got a couple of "bear with a sore head" :lol:
Click to expand...

 True that


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## kayakone

AdrianK said:


> This is awesome!
> 
> Now, if only we had a bear on a tricycle....


Glad you're enjoying the circus Adrian.  Now if Jatzo will agree to a debate on origins.....we'll see....?


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## mehi

For FcK sakes when are the admins going to lock this thread,  everyones over this bullshit


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## AdrianK

mehi said:


> For FcK sakes when are the admins going to lock this thread, everyones over this bullshit


Agreed


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## kayakone

Wise words from you and Adrian. Consider it locked Mehi. (The guy doesn't even have a kayak.)


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## scarbynewby

.


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## tomsie

Admins???

No such user around here sadly... Oh and K1, please clarify something for me; You didn't say earler that if you are not a subscriber to your specific belief system then you are not welcome here did you (becuase "I feel you don't know what a Christian believes or how they behave. Please stop coming here and just stick to the 'the shed'." kinda fails the 'sniff' test)

[email protected]


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## Guest

Guys get a grip. I'm betting there are more people than just me here who are getting mighty sick of all this crap. Trevor has every right to post on this topic ( it is his thread after all) as he wishes, provided he complies with forum rules.

You too have the right to join the conversation, but you must also comply with the rules. If you don't want to do this I can't stop you, but I really do feel you are making bloody fools of yourself carrying on like this. Just saying.


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## Guest

Im not sure why anyone would want to follow something/someone who is responsible for murder death atrocities child abuse and all the things that make the headlines each day.

kayak one it seems like you need to find another hobby friend, its like you carry some serious baggage and have polarised many people. I'm not sure what you stand to gain from talking to all of these people and yourself.

Anyway I've got a story to write about my new kayak. thats what we all should be doing, fishing,


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## kayakone

Jaseparker said:


> Im not sure why anyone would want to follow something/someone who is responsible for murder death atrocities child abuse and all the things that make the headlines each day.
> 
> Kayakone it seems like you need to find another hobby friend, its like you carry some serious baggage and have polarised many people. I'm not sure what you stand to gain from talking to all of these people and yourself.
> 
> Anyway I've got a story to write about my new kayak. Thats what we all should be doing, fishing,


I'm ignoring the first few paragraphs , because (I'm assuming) you don't know the story.

That's the spirit Jase. Tell us about your new kayak and your first adventures in it. The sea/rivers are an amazing places. There are other off topic areas which I am restricted to now. Hope your first trip yields a fish or two or three or........

Good luck!


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## jatzo

kayakone said:


> Now if Jatzo will agree to a debate on origins.....we'll see....?


what non-debate are you referring to. The origin of the universe, or life on earth? I don't think - no, I am sure - you are not cognizant of what the really meaningful scientific debates, questions or controversies in these areas even are. So why would I bother to debate a non-debatable subject with you my gullible friend.



tomsie said:


> Oh and K1, please clarify something for me; You didn't say earler that if you are not a subscriber to your specific belief system then you are not welcome here did you (becuase "I feel you don't know what a Christian believes or how they behave. Please stop coming here and just stick to the 'the shed'." kinda fails the 'sniff' test


Correct, and could not be more succinctly put. He was very successful in making this his ACKFF - all proceeds going to the canadians, and the shed is for the heretics, apparently. So come over to the shed. leave this drip here.


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## amulloway

Haha, this is great.
Off to "church" now for some sneaky bass action in this hot weather.
Who cares what others worship, if you don't like someone's point of view, stop reading them!
These smart phones and computers have off switches guys, maybe some should try theirs and go for a fish!
Amen


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## Guest

amulloway said:


> Who cares what others worship, if you don't like someone's point of view, stop reading them!
> These smart phones and computers have off switches guys, maybe some should try theirs and go for a fish!
> Amen


Wise words from the mulloway there. Unfortunately for us though mr jatzo isn't the crispest savoury biscuit in the box, because he just doest seem to be able to let things go. But he is doing a cracker (pun intended) of a job as head publicity officer for that other joint. Not.


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## roller

My real name is Salman Rushdie can I help mediate?


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## roller

My real name is Salman Rushdie can I help mediate?


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## roller

My real name is Salman Rushdie can I help mediate?


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## kayakone

roller said:


> My real name is Salman Rushdie can I help mediate?


Ask the shed. You're in the wrong forum.


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## intrepid




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## kritz

The rodents are feeding on the carcass. RIP


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## jatzo

kayakone said:


> Now if Jatzo will agree to a debate on origins.....we'll see....?


Origins...... 



RedActor said:


> mr jatzo isn't the crispest savoury biscuit in the box


I may be crackers at times, but at least I'm not a religious _nut_.

A question for K1's fabulous new ACKFF:
These are some of the renaissance christian paintings commonly used to brain wash the young and vulnerable by your brethren in church and sunday school etc. Correct my devout friend?

Why the belly button, these artists were very intelligent men? Was it a slip of the brush or were they also taking the piss out of those less intelligent/educated believers - and guilty of religious vilification as well?


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## kayakone

Sorry Jatzo.

Go paddle a biscuit kayak. BTW, have you _got_ a kayak yet? How about a trip report, or some encouragement to newcomers.


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## Marty

havent been on AKFF for quite a while.( basically since the sale ).
tho have been watching in amazement at this thread .
I have been a christian for a number of years , and also work with a group of men , not very understanding of the christian faith .
they respect me , and i respect them by not ramming it down there throat . easy really .
Imn my honest opinion Kayakone . I think you are really getting off on all this . 
And was amazed in one post you threatened to follow up with legal action , if you were pushed any further .
Who do you actually think you are ?.


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## Guest

jatzo said:


> I may be crackers at times, but at least I'm not a religious _nut_.


Thank God for that Ritzo.


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## kayakone

Marty said:
 

> havent been on AKFF for quite a while.( basically since the sale ).
> tho have been watching in amazement at this thread .
> I have been a christian for a number of years , and also work with a group of men , not very understanding of the christian faith .
> they respect me , and i respect them by not ramming it down there throat . easy really .
> In my honest opinion Kayakone . I think you are really getting off on all this .
> And was amazed in one post you threatened to follow up with legal action , if you were pushed any further .
> Who do you actually think you are ?.


Marty

I am not 'getting off' on this. I thought the first post would be the end of it:



kayakone said:


> I have decided to take NO ACTION with the various Anti Discrimination Commissions, NOR WILL I EVER DO SO. I would like everyone to know that.
> 
> There is a lesson here though, that I feel should be learned. Some of the comments made to me were very hurtful, solely because the poster disagreed with my Christian beliefs.
> 
> The law in Australia states that: "Vilification is different from discrimination. Whilst discrimination involves unfair treatment, vilification is a _public act _that incites others to hate you or your group, have serious contempt for you, or severely ridicule you, because of your religion. This sort of hatred can show up in websites."
> 
> That is the end of the matter forever. Let us get on with fishing and sharing the good times, and the donuts.


That is why I considered 'legal action.' I was vilified multiple times, and obviously those hiding behind their keyboards ignored that vilification is illegal in Australia, they didn't know, or they did it anyway, thinking they were beyond the law.


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## Gad

Déjà Poo: The feeling that we've heard this sh!t before ... diarrhea ??


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## jatzo

kayakone said:


> Sorry Jatzo.
> 
> Go paddle a biscuit kayak. BTW, have you _got_ a kayak yet? How about a trip report, or some encouragement to newcomers.


I do have a POS plastic kayak, upgrading to glass shortly. Come down to SA and kayak with me, maybe your faith in your prayers will protect you from our great whites so no need to worry about a shark shield, but if god does exist, and based on empirical evidence is actually the sadistic SOB that he may appear to be, you may be screwed.

Cheers.


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## kayakone

Goodness you are cheeky Wayne.


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## Bludymick

What I find highly ironic
To win the case of vilification based on religious views 
The person claiming vilification must PROVE to the court that he has been vilified and how that affects him
Yet he doesn't have to PROVE the existence of his sky fairy to anyone, his faith is all that is required.

Yet religion vilifies just about anyone outside their carefully constructed box
Gay, 
Women 
Other faiths


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## AdrianK

What do any of you care what other people believe in?
From someone without a strong belief either way (I am in a mixed marriage in this area), it interesting to note that some people on both sides of the argument in this thread have such strong views they border on zealotry.

This thread is an excellent example of why there is a need for moderators on a forum. If anyone was moderating, this would have been shut down before it reached page 2, as serving no useful purpose, and some of the participants would have been asked to keep from getting too personal in their comments.


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## matcoburn

Its all about Trev!!


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## kayakone

matcoburn said:


> Its all about Trev!!


No it's not Mat. You've done heaps of amazing stuff.

Still wanna do a circumnavigation of North Straddie or 'Fraser Is.? Both may be harder than Phillip Is.There are only about twenty of us left here. Red may get interested.


----------



## CanuckChubbs

Did you know, that according to stats, there are 65000 Jedi in Australia...


----------



## jatzo

Bludymick said:


> What I find highly ironic
> To win the case of vilification based on religious views
> The person claiming vilification must PROVE to the court that he has been vilified and how that affects him
> Yet he doesn't have to PROVE the existence of his sky fairy to anyone, his faith is all that is required.
> 
> Yet religion vilifies just about anyone outside their carefully constructed box
> Gay,
> Women
> Other faiths


yep this, hence my reference to the "christian bubble" previously. Very well put.


----------



## jatzo

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
drawing a line under it, could the new owners/admin please delete my account, everyone go to the shed.


----------



## Guest

Congratulations Trevor.Only one more to go.


----------



## jatzo

jatzo said:


> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> drawing a line under it, could the new owners/admin please delete my account, everyone go to the shed.


Still able to log in! Seems there is no "ghost in the machine", at least in this interweb case.

Ha ha, suspected as much! look at the number of hits/posts on this thread, compared to anything remotely kayak fishing related now. You've made the canadians at least a little money with your "ACKFF" K1. Well done! Suspect they're mighty pissed at you though, depending on how much they've invested in the domain.

No answers to my questions K!? Religion is out of bounds now, thats a sudden 180 for you! K1, it's all about death isn't it? That's the "nitty- gritty" of it. You'r really petrified of the concept of non existence - extinguishment of ego. Some unscrupulous people exploited this natural tendency, and passed on a lie/myth to you at a vulnerable young age when your particular brain was unable to defend itself against such a virulent contagion. You were apparently unable on an intellectual level to defeat/reassess it growing up. Now it's got control of you, and you helplessly succumb at every available opportunity in an attempt to pass it on. This just happened to include the now defunct AKFF.

We will all completely decompose eventually eventually K1 - along with this site. Entropy K1, you cannot escape of it no matter how hard you pray (talk to yourself).

Good chatting with you my gullible friend.


----------



## Guest

I am reliably informed more people prefer Ritz than Jatz. Perhaps we should run a poll.


----------



## kayakone

jatzo said:


> jatzo said:
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> drawing a line under it, could the new owners/admin please delete my account, everyone go to the shed.
> 
> 
> 
> Still able to log in! Seems there is no "ghost in the machine", at least in this interweb case.
> 
> Ha ha, suspected as much! look at the number of hits/posts on this thread, compared to anything remotely kayak fishing related now. You've made the canadians at least a little money with your "ACKFF" K1. Well done! Suspect they're mighty pissed at you though, depending on how much they've invested in the domain.
> 
> No answers to my questions K!? Religion is out of bounds now, thats a sudden 180 for you! K1, it's all about death isn't it? That's the "nitty- gritty" of it. You'r really petrified of the concept of non existence - extinguishment of ego. Some unscrupulous people exploited this natural tendency, and passed on a lie/myth to you at a vulnerable young age when your particular brain was unable to defend itself against such a virulent contagion. You were apparently unable on an intellectual level to defeat/reassess it growing up. Now it's got control of you, and you helplessly succumb at every available opportunity in an attempt to pass it on. This just happened to include the now defunct AKFF.
> 
> We will all completely decompose eventually eventually K1 - along with this site. Entropy K1, you cannot escape of it no matter how hard you pray (talk to yourself).
> 
> Good chatting with you my gullible friend.
Click to expand...

Go ask Richard Dawkins. He still hasn't answered the question, which is "Give me *one * example of where 'non -life' turned into 'life'. Life is exceedingly complex (with millions of bits of information in even the simplest cell, self reproductive, and no answer from Dawkins or biologists or evolutionists to explain how it happened):

http://creation.com/was-dawkins-stumped ... uted-again


----------



## jatzo

kayakone said:


> jatzo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jatzo said:
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> drawing a line under it, could the new owners/admin please delete my account, everyone go to the shed.
> 
> 
> 
> Still able to log in! Seems there is no "ghost in the machine", at least in this interweb case.
> 
> Ha ha, suspected as much! look at the number of hits/posts on this thread, compared to anything remotely kayak fishing related now. You've made the canadians at least a little money with your "ACKFF" K1. Well done! Suspect they're mighty pissed at you though, depending on how much they've invested in the domain.
> 
> No answers to my questions K!? Religion is out of bounds now, thats a sudden 180 for you! K1, it's all about death isn't it? That's the "nitty- gritty" of it. You'r really petrified of the concept of non existence - extinguishment of ego. Some unscrupulous people exploited this natural tendency, and passed on a lie/myth to you at a vulnerable young age when your particular brain was unable to defend itself against such a virulent contagion. You were apparently unable on an intellectual level to defeat/reassess it growing up. Now it's got control of you, and you helplessly succumb at every available opportunity in an attempt to pass it on. This just happened to include the now defunct AKFF.
> 
> We will all completely decompose eventually eventually K1 - along with this site. Entropy K1, you cannot escape of it no matter how hard you pray (talk to yourself).
> 
> Good chatting with you my gullible friend.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Go ask Richard Dawkins. He still hasn't answered the question, which is "Give me *one * example of where 'non -life' turned into 'life'. Life is exceedingly complex (with millions of bits of information in even the simplest cell, self reproductive, and no answer from Dawkins or biologists or evolutionists to explain how it happened):
> 
> http://creation.com/was-dawkins-stumped ... uted-again
Click to expand...

Planet earth. What we have here possibly originated elsewhere although I doubt it because 4000 million years ago (sorry not 2000ish) conditions on this planet were ideal for abiogenesis. The universe is huge and old, fact n=1, scientists are very aware of the implications on estimating probability. This does not mean we select a random non evidence based (actually flawed based on evidence) rediculous explanation out of the infinite number of possible explanations _a-priori_ as I mentioned earlier. Again K1, Dawkins et al. are honest regarding this, you and your brethren are not. I noted you side stepped the belly button issue, care to go back and peruse your religious texts?

Anyway, I find this discussion could get embarrassing for you so I am ending it here.


----------



## jatzo

kayakone said:


> no answer from Dawkins or biologists or evolutionists to explain how it happened):


like this


----------



## kayakone

jatzo said:


> kayakone said:
> 
> 
> 
> no answer from Dawkins or biologists or evolutionists to explain how it happened):
> 
> 
> 
> like this
Click to expand...

I thought the yak shed took you. You're not welcome here.


----------



## jatzo

kayakone said:


> Really? Go on, goad me. Try one more time, and we'll all see what is *fact*.


 :lol: coming back to haunt you my gullible friend?


----------



## kritz

People with religious beliefs generally lack sound education. Referencing a Christian site to critisise Dawkins further proves this hypothesis. Religion has been the downfall of many good things including this site.


----------



## jatzo

Amen


----------



## Guest

kritz said:


> People with religious beliefs generally lack sound education. Referencing a Christian site to critisise Dawkins further proves this hypothesis. Religion has been the downfall of many good things including this site.


Oh dear me here we go again. Kritzo, Jatzo, Ritzo ( I can't tell the difference these days) can't seem to string more than a few intelligent words together before they drop a clanger. Not the crispest crackers in the box me thinks.lol:


----------



## jatzo

kritz said:


> People with religious beliefs generally lack sound education. Referencing a Christian site to critisise Dawkins further proves this hypothesis. Religion has been the downfall of many good things including this site.


I agree that quality scientific education plays a role, but those of the like of K1 and RedActor, no amount of education could mitigate their innate stupidity.


----------



## kritz

Sorry Occy, you posting commercial material for crap products contributed as well.


----------



## Guest

Obviously Jatzo just can't stay away. :? I was hoping you would honour your word when you said you were drawing a line under it just before you stormed and off to the yuk shed where your questionable behaviour will no doubt be more highly regarded. Unfortunately I got it wrong, again.


----------



## kayakone

kritz said:


> People with religious beliefs generally lack sound education. Referencing a Christian site to critisise Dawkins further proves this hypothesis. Religion has been the downfall of many good things including this site.





kritz said:


> People with religious beliefs generally lack sound education. Referencing a Christian site to critisise Dawkins further proves this hypothesis. .


You can't spell criticise (spelling police - Nick is in the shed).

Where do draw this statement from....where is your evidence? Please quote references. If Dawkins criticises Christians, tell my why Christians cannot reply with criticism of Dawkins. Your reasoning is unreasonable to me.

Richard Dawkins has still not answered THE question 'Give me one example of non-life (elements) giving rise to life as we all understand it?' i.e., highly complex, self-reproducing life, with millions of bits of new information added (ask yourself from *where*). 
BTW, where did the millions of bits of new information come from?

1. Do you know the complexity of the simplest form of life? How many bits of information are involved?

2. Are you aware of the composition of DNA (the double helix structure)?

3. Are aware of the ATP synthase motor, just one part of the chain of life, that manufactures proteins through an incredibly complex process?

Answer these questions and their origins, and we are in the box seat to begin a discussion on life and origins and design.

Religion has not been the downfall of this site. This site was decimated because the justifiable anger of it's many long term members who built an almost ad free fishing forum. *I* caused some ruckus with a couple of Christian posts, and the last one was at Easter, and in the right place, namely 'soapbox' in Off Topic, but you need to have contributed to this site with 250 posts before you can join 'soapbox.'

May I be so bold as to ask you and Jatzo as to what you have contributed? Nix, as far as I can see. We all feel the loss, the shed guys and those who remain, and hundreds of us contributed trip reports , information on techniques and rigs, safety , etc. That is how much we love kayaking and fishing, though Karnage did have short break four years ago. :shock:

A few remain here. It is NOT my site....it is now owned by the Canadians. If you or crackers or jitzo or whoever want a debate on origins let me know, and with the forbearing of the few staying in contact, most of whom know me, we will have it, and I hope they are tolerant.

Go kayak fishing and get rid of your frustrations.


----------



## jatzo

kayakone said:


> kritz said:
> 
> 
> 
> People with religious beliefs generally lack sound education. Referencing a Christian site to critisise Dawkins further proves this hypothesis. Religion has been the downfall of many good things including this site.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kritz said:
> 
> 
> 
> People with religious beliefs generally lack sound education. Referencing a Christian site to critisise Dawkins further proves this hypothesis. .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't spell criticise (spelling police - Nick is in the shed).
> 
> Where do draw this statement from....where is your evidence? Please quote references. If Dawkins criticises Christians, tell my why Christians cannot reply with criticism of Dawkins. Your reasoning is unreasonable to me.
> 
> Richard Dawkins has still not answered THE question 'Give me one example of non-life (elements) giving rise to life as we all understand it?' i.e., highly complex, self-reproducing life, with millions of bits of new information added (ask yourself from *where*).
> BTW, where did the millions of bits of new information come from?
> 
> 1. Do you know the complexity of the simplest form of life? How many bits of information are involved?
> 
> 2. Are you aware of the composition of DNA (the double helix structure)?
> 
> 3. Are aware of the ATP synthase motor, just one part of the chain of life, that manufactures proteins through an incredibly complex process?
> 
> Answer these questions and their origins, and we are in the box seat to begin a discussion on life and origins and design.
> 
> Religion has not been the downfall of this site. This site was decimated because the justifiable anger of it's many long term members who built an almost ad free fishing forum. *I* caused some ruckus with a couple of Christian posts, and the last one was at Easter, and in the right place, namely 'soapbox' in Off Topic, but you need to have contributed to this site with 250 posts before you can join 'soapbox.'
> 
> May I be so bold as to ask you and Jatzo as to what you have contributed? Nix, as far as I can see. We all feel the loss, the shed guys and those who remain, and hundreds of us contributed trip reports , information on techniques and rigs, safety , etc. That is how much we love kayaking and fishing, though Karnage did have short break four years ago. :shock:
> 
> A few remain here. It is NOT my site....it is now owned by the Canadians. If you or crackers or jitzo or whoever want a debate on origins let me know, and with the forbearing of the few staying in contact, most of whom know me, we will have it, and I hope they are tolerant.
> 
> Go kayak fishing and get rid of your frustrations.
Click to expand...

K1 I have been a student of quantitative/molecular genetics, evolutionary theory and statistician for many years. Like I said, I don't want to embarrass you, although your questions "1, 2, 3" may make me cringe, I do have some empathy for you.

Why this is, is a quite interesting academic question for me in of itself, considering we're not close relations (thankfully). It's evolutionary basis has been modelled mathematically, and Dawkins himself has attempted to explain it to the layman in his writings, the evolutionary theory of altruism.

Also of interest is the mathematical dynamics of your particular infectious cognitive contagion (random - one of many, many competing varieties, inflicted on you by happenstance) - christianity. These are all fascinating subjects.

Also of interest to me is what you mentioned earlier - "good people", and the relationship with religiosity. You didn't respond? Some have suggested that religion, the delusion of "being watched" - as a child is observed and instructed to behave by mum and dad - is necessary psychologically for some adults to be "good, behave and integrate effectively" into society.

However, observational and empirical evidence does not support the efficacy of the delusion, nor the hypothesis. As has been previously mentioned what we see all to commonly is the opposite. The religious delusion appears to be a coping strategy for the resulting conscience of "being bad" - confession etc. - and actually manifests and reinforces unethical or subjectively unacceptable behaviours in many cases. After all, "Jesus died for our sins" did he not? I, unlike you and your brethren do not require a spiritual moral compass to deal with the guilt of the human condition. I, like most professional grown ups resort to ethical rationalism.

would you like to continue?


----------



## jatzo

Also K1, if there is a question you may ask of yourself, or be asked, in our shared subjective experience/perception of reality, how do you deal with it objectively, or go about formulating hypotheses and assessing the infinite number of possible conclusions regarding it?

Your 'reasoning' is of interest to me&#8230;&#8230;. I'm not sure I understand it, could you please explain the particular methodology to me?


----------



## Couta101

Jatzo, I've had enough of your BS. Back off mate. Calling all those who belive in Christ uneducated please mate. There are a number of very well respected/highly educated people in this world that follow Christ (dont ask for examples as no matter what I say you will choose not to belive me, even if your beloved interwebs or wiki say its true-so you will never be satisfied), well mate I feel sorry for you, and I shall pray for you.

You show the lowest form of intellegence by finding anyway possible to bash others from behind a keyboard. If you really wanted the truth like your science supposedly shows is true you would dive head first into firstly trying to build a personal relationship with God (the only way He will ever show He is real ), but let me guess...not for you right? Why? too scared He will show Himself and you will need to eat humble pie? Too scared that you would have to give up what you think is so important in your life? My guess is that thats the answer. I dare you to find a real church that puts the word of God before all else, open your heart and let Him in, He will show how real He is.



> K1 I have been a student of quantitative/molecular genetics, evolutionary theory and statistician for many years.


If this is so, please explain why if you have all the right elements molecules environment blah blah blah, cant you put it all into a jar shake it up and create a life, a life of any sort, even the most basic living thing?? You cannot do it because you cannot create the spark that comes from the creator...THE END


----------



## kritz

Life on earth evolved in oceans before oxygen levels enabled life to exist on land. It did not evolve in a jar. This is fact and has been proven. A spark without oxygen and in water would have ignited jack shite. Therefore spark, no fire no life.

What is plausible about creationism is that breeding between siblings would likely result in genetic deformations. This is fact and would likely require a 'spark' although not ethical to make it happen.


----------



## jatzo

Couta101 said:


> real church that puts the word of God before all else


which one would that be exactly? Do tell.


----------



## jatzo

Couta101 said:


> the only way He will ever show He is real


"HE"? Why in your mind and christianity is gender an issue in any attempt at explanations of origins of reality? Gender is a biological phenomenon. Again, this is basically a rhetorical question. Biologists and geneticists well understand the what, and why of sexual reproductions' prevalence in the reproduction and existence of most organisms. Recombination, genes that facilitate this process have a competitive advantage mathematically, in the gene pool. I don't get how you can use that word "HE". Please explain.


----------



## jatzo

Couta101 said:


> Jatzo, open your *heart* and let Him in


please explain this to me also, what do you mean by heart, I know I certainly have one and it is definitely pumping oxygenated blood to my brain at the moment?


----------



## jatzo

Couta101 said:


> If this is so, please explain why if you have all the right elements molecules environment blah blah blah, cant you put it all into a jar shake it up and create a life, a life of any sort, even the most basic living thing?? You cannot do it because you cannot create the spark that comes from the creator...THE END


The convenient but plagiarised "jar" imposes a ridiculous, but deliberately intentional and dishonest volume constraint on any sensible discussion of probabilities of any hypothesis of abiogenesis. State implicitly please the size of the "jar" you are referring too you manipulative, delusional, dishonest, intellectually exploitative individual.

The immensity, diversity of the environments of all those oceans and geological environments of the earth then, little own the immensity of other planets, galaxies - space and time, does not fit into a jar, idiot. But no, if it is improbable to have occurred in a "jar" of unknown conditions or content, then of course intelligent creation is by reasonable deduction the default answer. These people can be "educated thinkers," apparently.

'ho hum'


----------



## Guest

Jatzo, I was impressed when you started to trot out all those big words. I thought you must be a well educated man. Until I read that second paragraph with your bizarre reasoning on what was obviously a rhetorical question. Combine that with an obviously deep seated hatred of religion, and your penchant for derogatory remarks whenever you don't agree with anyone, and you have all the makings of a zealot. Maybe you have a tad too much of that oxygenated blood pumping around in your brain at the moment. :shock:


----------



## jatzo

You accuse me of hatred, I previously explained empathy and ethical reason. Where does the hatred truthfully lie?


----------



## jatzo

RedActor said:


> Until I read that second paragraph with your bizarre reasoning


That was sarcasm genius.


----------



## Guest

Thanks for the compliment Jatzo. And thanks also for not flying off into a fit of personal abuse this time. I must be having a positive influence.

So in the spirit of reconciliation I would like to offer an olive branch. How about we agree that you don't hate religion, you just have a high level of antipathy towards the concept.

Funnily enough some of your thoughts on this subject aren't all that different to mine, although there are some differences. I don't talk about things I know nothing about, and I don't ridicule people who don't agree with me.

Anyway enough of that, I'll leave you to ponder the meaning of life.Which of course you should always look on the bright side of. ;-)


----------



## scoman

jatzo said:


> Couta101 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If this is so, please explain why if you have all the right elements molecules environment blah blah blah, cant you put it all into a jar shake it up and create a life, a life of any sort, even the most basic living thing?? You cannot do it because you cannot create the spark that comes from the creator...THE END
> 
> 
> 
> The convenient but plagiarised "jar" imposes a ridiculous, but deliberately intentional and dishonest volume constraint on any sensible discussion of probabilities of any hypothesis of abiogenesis. State implicitly please the size of the "jar" you are referring too you manipulative, delusional, dishonest, intellectually exploitative individual.
> 
> The immensity, diversity of the environments of all those oceans and geological environments of the earth then, little own the immensity of other planets, galaxies - space and time, does not fit into a jar, idiot. But no, if it is improbable to have occurred in a "jar" of unknown conditions or content, then of course intelligent creation is by reasonable deduction the default answer. These people can be "educated thinkers," apparently.
> 
> 'ho hum'
Click to expand...

And the award for the most 'big' words used in a post goes to&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;. Jatzo

Honestly Jatzo, im not sure who or what you are to the yak fishing community, but it appears your interests lie more in boxing on with public enemy number one. Hope you enjoy the high fives in the shed, but it might be time to pull the plug here. Slagging off on all those who 'believe' is pretty poor. I think you will find that Couta101 is not the only 'respected' member of our community that would find some of your comments offensive.


----------



## vladimir

How can u debate or place an argument in or on something u do not believe in . 2. In order to debate or clause an argument u must have very good knowledge of the holy bible to debate or argue yre statements .


----------



## vladimir

What if u live in a jar ?


----------



## jatzo

RedActor said:


> I'll leave you to ponder the meaning of life


How are you using the noun "meaning" in reference to life on earth, and what is your evidence for, and explanation of, how life has a "meaning." If you are actually trying to use that word correctly? Meaning in biology or reality in general is such a meaningless concept, but it's obviously deliberate, in the way you are trying to use and exploit it. What is the "meaning" of the ebola virus, it's life. Do tell?


----------



## jatzo

scoman said:


> jatzo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Couta101 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If this is so, please explain why if you have all the right elements molecules environment blah blah blah, cant you put it all into a jar shake it up and create a life, a life of any sort, even the most basic living thing?? You cannot do it because you cannot create the spark that comes from the creator...THE END
> 
> 
> 
> The convenient but plagiarised "jar" imposes a ridiculous, but deliberately intentional and dishonest volume constraint on any sensible discussion of probabilities of any hypothesis of abiogenesis. State implicitly please the size of the "jar" you are referring too you manipulative, delusional, dishonest, intellectually exploitative individual.
> 
> The immensity, diversity of the environments of all those oceans and geological environments of the earth then, little own the immensity of other planets, galaxies - space and time, does not fit into a jar, idiot. But no, if it is improbable to have occurred in a "jar" of unknown conditions or content, then of course intelligent creation is by reasonable deduction the default answer. These people can be "educated thinkers," apparently.
> 
> 'ho hum'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the award for the most 'big' words used in a post goes to&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;. Jatzo
> 
> Honestly Jatzo, im not sure who or what you are to the yak fishing community, but it appears your interests lie more in boxing on with public enemy number one. Hope you enjoy the high fives in the shed, but it might be time to pull the plug here. Slagging off on all those who 'believe' is pretty poor. I think you will find that Couta101 is not the only 'respected' member of our community that would find some of your comments offensive.
Click to expand...

OK then, why not continue? Cricket fans/athletes are usually important intellectual contributors in society of course, so it must deserve a response.

When any variety of irrational, ignorant and contagious belief system is deconstructed intellectually, it is of a natural consequence that those that based their MORTAL lives - thus, valuable time on it - used it as a framework for moral judgement, and intellectual reason, and in most cases trained their offsprings' minds when young and vulnerable - that "these people will have an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive."

For the average conservative religious believer it is probably a relatively harmless psychological placebo type effect that may in some individual instances be beneficial. Like a prisoner incarcerated for judgement of guilt of crime (maybe?). On a larger societal/global scale this is highly debatable, it's the polar opposite, evidence would suggest.

Yes, I have struggled through the christian texts, among many others. What I observe in all these, is a very small (convenient) mixture of basically obvious "wisdom" (no actually - just basic stupid 'common sense') and rudimentary irrational ethical thought processes (morals, simplistic behavioural commandments etc.).

But mostly, deliberately and randomly constructed manipulative AMBIGUITY. That there, is the key. Ambiguity. Just as I have seen in other texts - the "Koran", "A Course in Miracles", "The Secret'," the "I Ching" etc. etc. Not only that, but poor (no) structured reason and argument - and writing bordering on basic illiteracy.

The ambiguity determines that the "passages" can be interpreted variously depending on the motives or psychological preconditions of the readers, it deliberately facilitates dishonesty and manipulation by the preachers of such texts of the vulnerable 'sheep'. By design, Yeah? No. Probably again by an evolutionary like process of the texts. But, exploited in manipulation of the masses.

When one submits peer reviewed evidence based knowledge for publication, one must be clear, concise and the argument rigourous. You, the reader, may not have the tools to understand it (we cannot all be quantum physicists), but of necessity "A=B" with evidence, there is no ambiguity, and any uncertainty is assessed mathematically, stated honestly and without any ambiguity. It forms the the rigour of the inferences and conclusions made.

Any governmental policy must be based on this - separation of church and state - if not frightening things do, have and are happening. The lunatic PM essentially believes that his delusional god controls the climate!

People may find this hard to take and insulting. That is not my problem, ethical dilemma or flaw of any kind - it is yours (you need to learn to own it). Deal with it. The Progress of human kind is a result of, and dependent on rational thought.


----------



## vladimir

My mate recently became a Christian he has a masters in quantum physics and he's heavily into science and he said that he can't prove anything and that there is so much evidence that God exists and it true .


----------



## Guest

So many big words, and so well put together. What book did you copy them from Jatzo? 

I must tell you the joke about the quantum physicist and the plumber one day. It's a ball tearer. ;-)


----------



## troppo65

Religion confuses me.

Is this the place where the experts can help me out?


----------



## Guest

Troppo, I reckon Jatzo's your man. Seems like he knows everything there is to know about everything.


----------



## Bludymick

Sounds like a fair amount of Athiest vilification 
Get a lawyer mate


----------



## vladimir

U may not believe in God , but u can't fight the existence of God and if u happen to hate God . Take that up with God not with Christians


----------



## troppo65

vladimir said:


> U may not believe in God , but u can't fight the existence of God and if u happen to hate God . Take that up with God not with Christians


I thought Jews and Muslims believe in God and Christians believed in Christ?

Or are you talking about one of the Hindu Gods?

You really need to be specific, there are so many Gods can you please make sure you specify which one you're talking about?


----------



## vladimir

I'm talking about God,Jesus and the Holy Spirit . I'm talking about the holy trinity where Jesus died on the cross to save us all from pain and suffering and to liberate us .e


----------



## vladimir

And I did say Christians in my post so I was specific


----------



## troppo65

vladimir said:


> I'm talking about God,Jesus and the Holy Spirit . I'm talking about the holy trinity where Jesus died on the cross to save us all from pain and suffering and to liberate us .e





vladimir said:


> And I did say Christians in my post so I was specific


So confusing.

By God are you referring to the same God as the Jews and Muslims? Not Hindu, Norse, Roman or any of the other Gods worshipped around the world?

Jesus is Christ, the one only worshipped by Christians? And you say he supposedly sacrificed himself to save us from pain and suffering, not sure that's actually worked too well.

Who is the Spirit?

You seem to think that this religious thing is easy and proven, but I'm not even sure which Gods you're talking about when you say this. I have Jewish friends who are very religious, but they are adamant that Christ is not a God. I have Hindu friends who are very religious who say the Jewish God is real, the Muslim God is real and have many Gods that are real.

My indigenous friends believe in Spirits, as it seems do you, but not in Gods.

They all believe passionately and totally, but in completely different things that cant all be correct. Or are the Gods so mysterious that they are actually all correct?


----------



## vladimir

I can see yre confused u even confused me with yre post u have friends that are Jews and Muslims do they get on with one another . And u seem to mention gods , I'm talking about God not gods or a god


----------



## troppo65

vladimir said:


> I can see yre confused u even confused me with yre post u have friends that are Jews and Muslims do they get on with one another . And u seem to mention gods , I'm talking about God not gods or a god


If your God is not a God what is he?


----------



## vladimir

My God is my lord , my lord is my God


----------



## vladimir

In demonology they have gods satan himself is The Lord of darkness so he is a god


----------



## vladimir

A god of the underworld


----------



## troppo65

vladimir said:


> My God is my lord , my lord is my God


So your God is a God, just like the Hindu Gods?


----------



## vladimir

No


----------



## vladimir

Looks like u had some mushrooms in yre days gone by tropo hey


----------



## troppo65

vladimir said:


> No


Why is your God different to the other Gods?


----------



## Guest

vladimir said:


> I'm talking about God not gods or a god


For those who don't know why Vladimir wrote it that way (with only one capital G) all I can say is you need to get an education.

I wasn't going to enter the fray here as I'm not really one who wants or needs to publicly talk about faith, but I have been fascinated by how this thread has developed. From a discussion about religious vilification it's morphed into a debate (if you can call it that) about faith based thinking.

It so blindingly obvious from some of the comments here there are many people out there who haven't got a clue what faith based thinking is about let alone religion/s. Yet they will happily slag off against every religion they can think of, lumping them all into the same boat and collectively blaming them all for the worlds problems. With not one word about what they think would/should replace them.

Oh well each to their own I suppose. All I can say is God (note the capital G) help us.


----------



## troppo65

I'm not slagging anyone off, simply asking basic questions.

Too often these debates turn into exactly that, I'm just trying to make sense of what people are saying.

To me a God is a God, I may well need educating, but that is why I am asking questions, not making statements.

Christians have their God, Muslims have theirs, all different religions have different Gods. I'm trying to understand why any one religion thinks their Gods are different or better than anyone else's Gods.


----------



## vladimir

I was stating a capital G cause that's the only true God , the rest of the gods I was refering to false gods or a false god


----------



## troppo65

vladimir said:


> I was stating a capital G cause that's the only true God , the rest of the gods I was refering to false gods or a false god


But that's what the other religions say about their God or Gods, why are their Gods false and yours isn't?

So put yourself in my shoes, a Christian says they are right, my Gods are the real ones, a Jew says no, my God is the real one.

Why would I believe a Christian over a Jew (or any other religion)?


----------



## Guest

Beat me to it Vladimir, there is indeed only one God. People of different religious persuasions may call him/ her different names but they are all one and the same. That's what I believe anyway.

In the meantime here's some light reading on the subject from a Christian perspective .http://www.perspectivedigest.org/articl ... -the-koran.

Whilst I'm not a follower of that particular church it's certainly worth reading and I'de be keen to hear what you make of it Troppo.


----------



## squidlips

I have been really disappointed recently to find the changes in the forum activity and have read several posts which explain some of the reasons behind this.

Kayakone - I know that you may not be solely responsible for this. As one who shares some of your beliefs I would simply say that this forum was never intended as a place to argue religious beliefs - it has in fact been a place where guys and girls can take some time out to share and enjoy their sport/hobby. Most of us would agree that it is never okay to harass others due to their faith, race, sex, sexuality etc, however, as a Christian I believe that Jesus would choose to 'turn the other cheek' and let his actions speak, rather than his words.

That's all I have to say. Now get out there and get fishing!


----------



## Guest

I agree with most of what you have said Squidlips, especially the bit about going fishing. And the turning the other cheek or getting on with life advice is sound too. Unfortunately there are some here who don't understand the concept, and I'm not talking about Trevor.

Thankfully most people of that persuasion have gone elsewhere, although a few still come back from time to time to remind us just how ignorant they are.


----------



## Duggo

Perhaps then Redactor, you could stop trolling and contribute in a meaningful way to the forum. Nothing constructive in the field of fishing from you whatsoever. For someone so new to the forum you are coming across as rather full of yourself.
so , go fishing, put up a report about that, and leave this pathetic thread to die the natural death it should have after the original misguided post.


----------



## vladimir

And evry Muslim will tell u that Christianity was 500years before Islam , so when Christianity was here on earth Islam didn't exist


----------



## vladimir

And also Jesus was Jewish


----------



## troppo65

vladimir said:


> And evry Muslim will tell u that Christianity was 500years before Islam , so when Christianity was here on earth Islam didn't exist


I don't think you judge things on the oldest God, Hindu, Greek and many, many others existed long before Jesus was born.

But my question still remains unanswered.

Why is your God the only God, why not the Jewish God or any of the other Gods? Why can't multiple Gods exist?


----------



## Frocklizard

For fcuk sakes!!! Don't any of you cnuts fish from a kayak anymore


----------



## vladimir

The Jews turned away from there true God and went and worshiped there 630 laws they had to try and make themselves right with god


----------



## Guest

Duggo said:


> Perhaps then Redactor, you could stop trolling and contribute in a meaningful way to the forum. Nothing constructive in the field of fishing from you whatsoever. For someone so new to the forum you are coming across as rather full of yourself.
> so , go fishing, put up a report about that, and leave this pathetic thread to die the natural death it should have after the original misguided post.


Duggo I'm afraid I don't know how to break this to you any more gently, but I've just checked your stats and you aren't exactly a shining light in the field of constructive contributions to the field of fishing. The last time you posted anything at all about fishing was twelve months ago (to the day would you believe), and your most active thread (with an astounding 199 posts) is .................. wait for it ...... "Time for the Cricket". :shock:

Which is interesting because the last time I looked this was a kayak fishing forum not a cricket forum. So at the risk of coming across as "rather full of myself" again could I just say I think you are spot on when you suggest we all go fishing and post a report. I'll give it a go if you will. In fact I'll give it a go even if you don't. ;-)

PS: Lastly a comment for Frolicklizard and anyone else out there who has a problem with this thread. No one is forcing you read anything here, so if you don't like what you see that's your problem not ours. If you choose to respond that's another issue all together because it suggests you need to get a life.


----------



## Duggo

If you do a little more investigating, you will also discover that the cricket thread is in the off topic section, and is by far the most popular thread on the forum.
I think you will also discover that the majority of my posts when I first joined were in fact fishing related, and as I developed an understanding of the dynamics of the joint I became involved in other threads.

If it makes you feel better to attack me about my contribution here, that's fine, go down that road. I really don't mind.


----------



## vladimir

As far as I'm concerned u make a bus stop your god and u can worship a bus stop but it's no God and it will not save u and help u


----------



## vladimir

And there fishermen came to port with there boats empty and Jesus was standing there he said to the fishermen go out again so they went out again and Jesus was with them and Jesus said cast yre nets here so they cast there nets and they hulled there nets back into the boat and there boats were full of fish


----------



## kritz

One day Jesus was walking down a wooded path and saw a bee hive. He was curious so stuck his knob in the hive. Mysteriously he was stung.


----------



## vladimir

I love it go Jesus ,I pray lord Jesus for those who do. It know u I pray that they become Christians I pray that u Jesus forgive them and help them with what ever they are struggling in life with amen


----------



## vladimir

Yre issue is with Jesus kritz not with me u need to sort that out withvjesus believe me so strong yre problems won't get under my skin


----------



## vladimir

The whole point to this is we are all entitled and at liberatey to express our thought and feelings on any matter or subject all together and no matter how much we try and justify or prove some subject we must come to conclusion to live in peace with one another Be happy all peoples from all walks of life God bless u all amen


----------



## Frocklizard

8)


----------



## brinkmanc12

I can not believe that people just don't get on, I don't care if you believe that God is the cookie monster. everyone has the right to believe or live how they want to as long as they are not hurting anyone. I wish you could all relax and talk about fishing and Kayaking. cheers, Paul.


----------



## vladimir

How much cocaine did sell today and how many grams did u snort today froklizard


----------



## Guest

Frolicklizard you have a right to your beliefs just as Vladimir, or anyone else does but you do not have a right to post such blatantly offensive material. Now please do us all a favour and just quietly fade away. And if you don't want the rest of the world to know what an absolute tool you are I suggest you delete that post before you go.


----------



## vladimir

Go Jesus amen to Jesu who conquered the whole work with out a single war or battle without even throwing a punch amen


----------



## Frocklizard

8)


----------



## Guest

I think that prick is red actoer


----------



## Guest

Thanks Frolicklizard much appreciated. Now all we need to do is get Jaseparker (who isn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed :lol: ) to join him.


----------



## vladimir

Jesus can use jasper for his kingdom Jesus wants jasper to serve him , Lisa is under Gods protection amen


----------



## Bludymick

RedActor said:


> I agree with most of what you have said Squidlips, especially the bit about going fishing. And the turning the other cheek or getting on with life advice is sound too. Unfortunately there are some here who don't understand the concept, and I'm not talking about Trevor.
> 
> Thankfully most people of that persuasion have gone elsewhere, although a few still come back from time to time to remind us just how ignorant they are.


well well
MR Red owns this page does he, can choose who can or cannot use this forrum 
well I didnt start a thread on this, and as a member im entitled to come and go as I choose. unless the mods or owners decide differently.
to the point of ignorance
Born into Christian faith. 
for a large part of my youth to age 16 i would attend no fewer than 3 services a week. sometimes more depending on the requirements as an Alterboy
I also did bibe study with the beleif Iwould attend a seminary when older. 
around 14 -15 i started to question my faith, in the church and the reality of God
by 19 I had no faith but was still party of community, untill the day I walked into the vatican I called myself christian. after the disgusting display of wealth that building holds I walked away completly
so IGNORANCE is those who claim to KNOW EVERYTHING and actually klnow bugger all

thanks for your imput


----------



## feel the sting

Funny you should say that about the vatican. 
When I walked into the vatican, it was the only place I felt the presence of God. And on that trip of Europe, I walked into a lot of churches.


----------



## Bludymick

feel the sting said:


> Funny you should say that about the vatican.
> When I walked into the vatican, it was the only place I felt the presence of God. And on that trip of Europe, I walked into a lot of churches.


The chapel was amazing. A enormous canvas
Saint peters was I feel too majestic
But the Vatican halls
The gaudy displays of wealth hanging on all the walls and the straight out arrogant boasting of the massive amounts of art etc in storage disgusts me.
I mentioned the amount of services I attended as young man
Well my father went to more and always pulled out a 20 to throw on the plate, he was and still is a catholic mafioso . (Actually represents certain groups at vat council meetings occasionally.) and had to make a show of his charity
Well at the same time we were dirt poor. Yet we gave without fail. As many many other good Catholics do.
To walk Ian's those doors and see all that gold, the tapestries . It's sick. It's sinful
The collection of things in those halls could fix world hunger. 
The house of saint Peter , The Shepard should be simple and spartan, reflecting the basic rules of Christ 
Do they 
Or is it trophy chest

That's how I feel 
However you took away something different, and of course that is a good thing too.

Did you manage to see the stairs they believed were the ones Christ was condemned on ie pontious pilots steps. The church that held them was just near the colloseum. Also the church that held the demonic Michelangelo statues near the main train station in Rome . They were stunning


----------



## feel the sting

Bludymick, I was young and a non practicing Christian when visiting the Vatican. Don't remember seeing those two sites you mentioned. 
You're right about the wealth on display, but I didn't have your history with Catholicism and didn't view it negatively. I was just amazed at the skills of Michelangelo, and the history ( whether it was good or bad).


----------



## Guest

Bludymick said:


> well wellMR Red owns this page does he, can choose who can or cannot use this forrum


Mick, I state my views as I am entitled to do, and you state yours as you have just done. That's it mate simple as that mate. Unfortunately. Because I reckon I'de do a pretty good job of sorting the wheat from the chaff if I had the power. And boy have we had some chaff around here recently. Thankfully most of it has gone elsewhere and only the stragglers are left.:twisted:


----------



## vladimir

Well I guess it's better to have faith and b a Christian , then to b getting drunk evry day or shooting up or taking some form of drugs , when I was on a swat team in the 90s drug dealers where selling heroine to 11 yr old kids that the kind of world u would like to see red actor a world full of crime violence and drug use good on ya mate shows who the real tossed is I pray for yre salvation and that u become a Christian amen


----------



## letmebackinplease

RedActor said:


> Bludymick said:
> 
> 
> 
> well wellMR Red owns this page does he, can choose who can or cannot use this forrum
> 
> 
> 
> Mick, I state my views as I am entitled to do, and you state yours as you have just done. That's it mate simple as that mate. Unfortunately. Because I reckon I'de do a pretty good job of sorting the wheat from the chaff if I had the power. And boy have we had some chaff around here recently. Thankfully most of it has gone elsewhere and only the stragglers are left.:twisted:
Click to expand...

Power. That's all you ever wanted wasn't it occy. Funny how the truth comes out.


----------



## Guest

"Like a mangy flea ridden dog returning to its own vomit, not even fit for a kickin" is how one message desribe him


----------



## bluepoles

K1
I saw your post "Dawkins still has no answer to the question, "Give me one example of non-life becoming life?' (he's had several years to answer the question)."

Because this is a kayak fishing forum, i'll restrict my answer to the realms of the aquatic

Not sure if he or you know about cyst stages of artemia (see http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/gsl/artemia/) but they have a dormant non life or suspended life speriod.
This dormancy can last up to 25 years if the conditions are unfavourable for them, if it is, they transform into a life form (nauplii).
It is an amazing example of evolution at its best

Artemia also known as sea monkeys are used extensively in fish hatcheries throught the world.
Think of the nauplii as a living plastic bag where essential fatty acids are crammed into them and fed to swim-up fry like Snapper, Mulloway etc
The fully moulted artemia makes a great food candidate for fish like Australian Bass fingerlings that usually only feed on moving prey before they are weened onto a pellet diet


----------



## Frocklizard

8)


----------



## kritz

Mr frock, when you said you wanted to get the prick you meant it in a literal sense. I first took offsense now I'm flattered.


----------



## vladimir

Frock lizard did u use a squid tube as a condom lol :lol: :lol:


----------



## Frocklizard

8)


----------



## Gad

Frocklizard said:


> vladimir said:
> 
> 
> 
> Frock lizard did u use a squid tube as a condom lol :lol: :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> We always practise safe sex  and have been known to use the occasional soft plastic
Click to expand...

has this thread turned to sh!t? :shock:


----------



## MKK

Not a whole lot of fishing going on here anymore which is a shame really. This was a good forum and now it's turned into sh1t.


----------



## kritz

It's ok if your a gay Christian kayak fisherman


----------



## Gad

kritz said:


> It's ok if your a gay Christian kayak fisherman


well now, with that statement to start the new year`s membership drive, I don`t think too many former choir boys will rush to sign on


----------



## Guest

kritz said:


> It's ok if your a gay Christian kayak fisherman


With only 12 posts here in seven years it's understanable Kritz isn't exactly up to speed on things like forum rules, but I would have thought he'd know something about common decency. Obviously I was wrong on both fronts.


----------



## Stealthfisha

RedActor said:


> kritz said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's ok if your a gay Christian kayak fisherman
> 
> 
> 
> With only 12 posts in seven years I'm prepared to excuse Kritz's inexperience, but his crassness and cavalier attitude to forum rules is unacceptable in my view.
Click to expand...

But there is no admin team watching remember?...the site has a handful of contributers and most subjects are based on religious or christian standpoints....admit it boys....the tone has decended and looks bad....but there arnt too many options for you is there...the comments that have been posted in defence have been quite aggressive or derogative of the shed or other sites....so ya kinder have made the bed and now yagotta stick with it as you may not be welcome anywhere else....I know your fine with this boys and respect that....and from what ive read you dont care....kudos.

so how long is this thread going to go on for?


----------



## Gad

I have thought from post one, this thread 'i am, i am' - 'it`s me, it`s me', was nothing more than a poorly disguised attempt at trolling for as many opposing responses as it could draw.

Tossing up the same old crap, whip it along then stand back and watch the forum descend into the manipulated sh!t fight.

Well done, it`s keeping me amused&#8230;


----------



## porkchop

RedActor said:


> kritz said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's ok if your a gay Christian kayak fisherman
> 
> 
> 
> With only 12 posts here in seven years it's understanable Kritz isn't exactly up to speed on things like forum rules, but I would have thought he'd know something about common decency. Obviously I was wrong on both fronts.
Click to expand...

It's astounding that you've spent so long on forums Occy, yet have no idea how they work. Here's a little help so you can stop embarrassing yourself. When a user deletes their posts, they are no longer available. Generally, this reduces their post count but doesn't affect their joining date. Sometimes the system does funny things and reports misinformation. Here's an example: http://www.akff.net/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=53

You keep spurting out bullshit that is grossly inaccurate and generally incorrect. Your ongoing trolling of the threads here is degrading and doing nothing to help your cause. Might be time to piss off and let those that are interested in rebuilding it as a place to discuss kayak fishing to do so, eh?


----------



## Guest

Thanks for the explanation Porkchop. Obviously having stormed off in huff and deleting all your posts like Kritz did you must have been really upset at what happened.

I totally understand why you would feel that way mate, but when you deleted all your posts you made the bed you must now lie in. Even if it is a tad uncomfortable after so thoroughly rubbishing the place, deleting all your posts, and returning like a bad penny to cast aspersions on anyone who dares to call you out over it.

Being relatively new here I'm afraid I'm not all that familiar with your previous contributions, but one hopes you made the odd post about yak fishing. So my challenge to you Porkchop is to get fairdinkum. If you truly do believe we need to help "rebuild this forum as a place to discuss kayak fishing" how about doing something about it rather than bellyaching all the time. :shock:


----------



## porkchop

RedActor said:


> Thanks for the explanation Porkchop. Pity you didn't bother to explain that like Kritz you too stormed off in huff after deleting your posts.
> 
> So your presence here now with 4 posts in three topics all rubbishing the joint suggests you are either being mischievous, or you too can't help yourself.


Not quite, but let's not go into the details of a non-commercial and not-for-profit forum being sold to profit from advertising from the existing content as that's old and rather boring.

I'm intrigued where i've rubbished the joint, or been mischievous. You've got me on not being able to help myself as your behaviour is amongst the worst and i don't get why you would come back under your pseudonym and create such a scene? Anton must be so proud at the moment for what you're doing for the C-Kayaks brand. Anyhow, let's take a look at my four posts that weren't removed at my request in protest.



porkchop said:


> RedActor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ScreamingDrag said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. Has anyone else noticed how many of those so called "cool kids" who hang out over at other place continue to grace us with their presence. From the nature of their contributions (as exhibited in the quote above as well as their profile) it seems the experience has affected their ability to hold an intelligent conversation. Oh well each to their own I suppose. :?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pull your head in Paul. SD had the common sense to remedy something that wasn't necessary, and is indeed a kid. Your behaviour under this pseudonym of yours has been just as unbecoming as you continue the pretence of being someone you're not and opt to take the moral high ground when it suits, particularly when you're old enough to know far better. That to me seems a little hypocritical given your above post, and I'd be happy to engage in an intelligent conversation about that if you so wish.
> 
> How's your red Prowler going? Why not stick some pictures of it in the Kayak Showroom so we can all have a gander, or throw up a trip report of your discoveries given you are "new to Sydney"? This is still a kayak fishing forum after all... isn't it?
Click to expand...

In this one, you were carrying on like a porkchop and slanging off at a 14 year old kid who didn't know any better. That riled me up and given the charade of lies, edited posts, and mistruths since you had joined, I felt it was probably time to break my silence and speak out against your bullying. Still not sure that you even fish despite your affiliations with C-Kayaks given the lack of trip reports, but that's irrelevant.



porkchop said:


> RedActor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oohs seems I have hit a nerve there doesn't it. Which is no surprise really when you consider who these two turkeys (Porkchop and StevenM) are or purport to be.
> 
> I think their profiles in particular are interesting with one apparently only 14, livings at the akff.net/forum, and paddling a akff.net/forum.com. The other is 95, lists his occupation as a shit stirrer and beehive poker who likes causing havoc, and his kayak as none just a troll.
> 
> Thankfully they don't have many surviving posts but they do reveal a lot about the minds of these two, with Porkchop's best effort so far consisting entirely of full stops. At 11 StevenM has a few more but they too are afflicted with the same sort of rubbish as Porkchops'.
> 
> So please do us all a big favour fellas and go get a life; preferably elsewhere if you don't mind. :roll: :roll: :roll:
> 
> 
> 
> Making as much sense as always with your redacted comments. Good onya Occy. Why keep editting and changing what you wrote? Why are you keeping up this pretence of being someone else? Don't try and answer that three times over... It was a rhetorical question.
> 
> The once great place has been left to wither and die, and your trolling is helping it on its way in an expedited fashion. Enjoy your game of dress-ups.
Click to expand...

This was after your third edit and substantial change to what you had written each time, all of which made little sense and suggested a bit too much red wine consumed that evening. I don't begrudge you that. We all drink a little bit now and again (and best we stay off the forum when we do) but you felt the need to throw in some slander about a well known and highly regarding Steven that you so happen to communicate with at KFDU and which again I found offensive in that you're keeping up your pretense of being someone you're not. There was also that rubbish accusation you made about myself but it made such little sense there was no other option but to just let it go.

And it's true. This was once a great forum, and it's been left by Scott who sold it off as the former owner, the mods who left it and went elsewhere, and the new owner who is paying it no attention and is taking on no new users. Your posts exhibit nothing more than trolling-like behaviour and are doing no favours to the ongoing health of the forum despite your proclamations to the contrary.



porkchop said:


> Very eloquently put as always Dodge. You'll always be a legend, no matter where you post or what badge you have to show for it.


Dodge IS a legend, and a true hero for the sport, and the community that was once fostered here. No cheek intended in this one.

My fourth post is two above this... no need to repost as it's led to this rather verbose and somewhat inane response. Instead, i'll part with a fantastic quote by another member and one who speaks sounds words. 


Duggo said:


> some better advice would be to not become involved in an argument with a proven idiot, they just drag things down to there level and beat you with there vast experience.


So with that know this isn't an argument. I'm simply demonstrating that your constant barrage of edited posts containing little more than mistruths and lies under this caricature of yours aren't fooling anyone who already knows you Occy, and nor are they doing anyone any good. We'd be much richer for it if you'd just bugger off and go back to pretending to be yourself for a bit instead. Go live the life you love as your signature elsewhere says and if you can't do that, for fuck's sake please grow up and act your age.


----------



## Guest

Well said Porkchop I think you just proved my point. ;-)

PS I don't drink red wine all that much these days, although I have been known to partake of the odd glass of chardy or two, or three. You should try it some time yourself. You just might enjoy it and you couldn't make less sense than you are at the moment. :lol:


----------



## porkchop

RedActor said:


> Well said Porkchop I think you just proved my point. ;-)


If your point was that you are carrying on like a knob then yes, i hopefully did. :roll:

Have a read of that signature of yours and reflect a little on just what it means. There's a life lesson in it for you.

Given you seem to be now frantically editing all of your posts and signature line yet again (you know we can all see the number of edits you make, right?!?), i saved it for you in case you forget what it was.


----------



## vladimir

What if u hooked up to a gay fish lol


----------



## Frocklizard




----------



## vladimir

Everyone at some age when they go in for a colonoscopy loose there virginaty lol


----------



## vladimir

U are entitled to your needs frocklizard


----------



## Frocklizard

vladimir said:


> U are entitled to your needs frocklizard


c'mon guys I'm not really gay, I'm Bi


----------



## jhbc123

Haven't been on the forum for a while,......what are you guys on about,......you've all lost the fucking plot, It's a KAYAK FISHING FORUM!!..................... used to be anyway!


----------



## Guest

Still is.


----------



## vladimir

Mods gone wild and gay


----------



## Spencer15

Umm.. I'm new to this site and this is my first post. I thought this was a kayak fishing forum???
Between fishing and god something's seems to have gone terribly wrong!
I haven't laughed this much in ages LOL.


----------



## vladimir

Seriously God is true and real and if any of u been to the Vatican I'm sure no one sexually abused u at anytime on yre visit to Rome


----------



## CanuckChubbs

Guess this thread is a way of uping your post count.... such a shame AKFF nosedived. At least there are other sanctuaries were fishos can gather.

In the meanwhile, did you know that there are 60,000 Jedi's (religion) in Australia. Let's see you vilify a Jedi...might make you punch yourself in the nuts a few times.


----------



## Stealthfisha

Spencer15 said:


> Umm.. I'm new to this site and this is my first post. I thought this was a kayak fishing forum???
> Between fishing and god something's seems to have gone terribly wrong!
> I haven't laughed this much in ages LOL.


If this forum is not suited to you mate pop over to the yak shed or kfdu...


----------



## Guest

Spencer15 said:


> Umm.. I'm new to this site and this is my first post. I thought this was a kayak fishing forum???
> Between fishing and god something's seems to have gone terribly wrong!
> I haven't laughed this much in ages LOL.


Hi and welcome Spencer. This is indeed a kayak fishing forum and like all Internet forums it's made up of all types, each of whom are entitled to express their opinions about almost anything. As it should be. The only rule is that you abide by the user rules ( basically just common sense and decency). So feel free to participate in any and everything. Glad you got a laugh out of it, way to go.


----------



## vladimir

It is funny some users take it way to seriously and they get there knickers tied in a knott ,God has created us humans and God has given us ll a sense of humor to enjoy welcome brother to this choice forum


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## Bludymick

CanuckChubbs said:


> Guess this thread is a way of uping your post count.... such a shame AKFF nosedived. At least there are other sanctuaries were fishos can gather.
> 
> In the meanwhile, did you know that there are 60,000 Jedi's (religion) in Australia. Let's see you vilify a Jedi...might make you punch yourself in the nuts a few times.


I will vilify that Jedi scum with glee
We students of the dark side of the force laugh at their pathetic little powers
THERE IS NO COMPARISON WITH THE POWERS OF THE SITH

BUT
we do have issues with numbers 
Only 2 of us 
A master and an apprentice

So to get through 60,000 will take some time


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## MrFaulty

vladimir said:


> Seriously God is true and real and if any of u been to the Vatican I'm sure no one sexually abused u at anytime on yre visit to Rome


That's it then, I'm cancelling my trip to Rome! :lol:


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## FishoStu

I havnt been to this site for ages but thought I might have a read & come a bit more for a look but after reading this, good luck to you all have a nice weekend....lol


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## Bludymick

.


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## Bludymick

vladimir said:


> Seriously God is true and real and if any of u been to the Vatican I'm sure no one sexually abused u at anytime on yre visit to Rome


dont need to go to rome for any Pedo's
My parish preist was Patrick Ryan and I attended St pius
Newcastle - a catholic pedo CAPITAL


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## Artie

Before anyone attacks me....check my post count (that seems to be how we are judged these days) also check the content of my posts.... this is my return to AKFF, I just drifted away, no reason, still fishing from the yak, just didn't see the need to drop in to the forums I once did, so I pop in tonight and see this.... whatever this is.

Some of the names involved in this thread I once interacted with when I was active.

I'm a yak fisho, I've seen crap on this forum in past, and many other forums, and I tend to ignore the rants and raves, but this? This????? WTF is this?????

I'm off, I'm not wishing to add related content, just wanted to say how embarrassed some of you make me, I think Ill move onto other sites... cheerio.


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