# Fibreglass Yaks and Peddle Hobies, The Way of the Future!!!!



## fishinswing (May 15, 2006)

It's looking like the popularity of Fibreglass yaks and peddle hobies are certianly dominating the latest trends to be happening on this great website. I own a swing and still currently researching the pros and cons of going the fibreglass route. Defintely going the stealth direction. Plastic is still popular but most people are really going the peddle route which is great at it leaves hands free while keeping yourself stationary in a current while fishing, definetly a big advantage while tossing plastics at schooled fish.

Truelly a tough decision for any new kayak fisho.

I must admit, I still like the good oh paddle, not only to fish but to keep fit while out and about in my kayak.

What do you guys think about the future in kayak fishing with new technology always appearing on the horizon ?


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## Dodge (Oct 12, 2005)

John
If I was planning offshore and through surf as my major activity there is no question I would buy a Stealth if beginning again.

But for what I currently do I am pretty happy with my present setup with the Swing for its versatility and toughness and a good resale later if required


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## Nodds (Feb 28, 2007)

Maybe a stealth with a mirage drive would be the go, best of both worlds


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## hairymick (Oct 18, 2005)

G'day John,

Good post mate.

I am well and truly a devotee of the fibreglass boats and would like to believe that they are the way of the future. The plastic boats are fine as fishing platforms and can be produced much more economically than the fibreglass ones. There will allways be a market for them, I think.

The things to consider when thinking about a fishing yak are, or course affected by price but the thinking probably should go a fair bit further than that.

As a rule of thumb, fibreglass is lighter than plastic. it creats less friction than plastic running through the water, therefore making a boat that can be paddled at similar speeds with less effort. A properly built fbreglass boat a lot tougher than the big plastic manufacturers have led many to believe. It also costs significantly less to repair. Every hardware store sells fibreglass repair kits. Not every town has a plastic welder.

I would urge any prospective kayak buyer to try some fibreglass models first, then try the plastic models that appeal. This also includes lifting them on and off the car. Then they will be in a position to better tell what boat best suits their needs.

Please don't think I am denigrating the plastic boats. there are some very good plastic boats out there and some of them appeal to me ie Viking Predator, Wavedance Kingfisher, and Hobie Quest - to name a few. It is just that I think that if these same boats were available in fibreglass, they would be so much better.

I am not in a position to comment on the Mirage Drive. It doesn't suit the places or the way that I fish and I have never used them. Suffice to say, that I am a little cynical about them. Moving mechanical parts in a salt water environment, tend to fail from time to time though this seems to be fairly rare here. I would rather put my faith in my beautifull assymetrical, feathered blade paddle.


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## garrick (Sep 2, 2006)

Dodge I agree with you. It all depends on where and for what you want to use it. If off shore is your main attraction then I would love to a Fibreglass yak like stealth. If however you want something as a more all rounder I would go for Hobie. I have an adventure that I have been of shore with but also on Jindabyne for trout as well as local lakes for natives like cod.

My personal opnion is HAVE 2 YAKS. One of each if afordable. i see it in the same light as fishing rods. You need a light 1 - 3 kg outfit for your bream flathead trout ect BUT you also need a big 24kg game rod for your marlin.


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## paddlepop (May 12, 2007)

it's taken me a long time but i finally have my perfect set up - one for fishing and the other for paddling and surfing

as for fishing, the hobie IMHO is the only way to go, so if you haven't tried one, you really must. i regularly paddle mine as well to keep my arms up to speed if i haven't been on the ski for a while. with the fins up against the bottom the hobie is no different/worse to paddle than any other sit on top.

i am however very exited by the prospect of the mirage drive going into other hulls

pete


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## varp (Sep 12, 2005)

Different smokes for different blokes.

My thoughts are pretty much the same as Hairy's. Fibreglass is a beautiful thang for all the reasons Hairy cites, but I would insert one caveat. They look so beautiful, any scratches will make you wince. No probs repairing gelcoat after a few years, but that grinding crunchy noise you get when two incompatible surfaces meet is like fingernails down a blackboard.

Another comment I'd make on design for off shore use is that while the ski type is good for the surf, it suffers in handling the rough stuff beyond the breakers. They are relatively flat and broad at the bow to prevent perling and have a pronounced rocker so they will turn well and this compensates for the fat bow, but this pronounced rocker makes them slow and hull slap becomes a problem. Fine for frequent short forays behind the breakers and brilliant for the surf but not so good for any kind of touring. Sitting high on top means bracing into beamy seas is tough too.

Those yaks with a low COG and a hull shape that is based on the traditional tried and true sea kayak lines give a greater range of options in my opinion. Hello Kaskazi and hello Dorado!

8)

Mirage Drives are a beautiful piece of engineering that combine simplicity with durability and have a deservedly huge place in the market, but the biggest negative is that they have to fit smack in the middle of where the big centre hatch has to go. IMHO all well designed yaks have to have a big easily accessable hatch between the legs for fish and rod storage. Most Oz fisho's want to be able fish beyond the breakers at some point in their yak fishing lives and if you can't stow rods for the surf launch/re-entry then it's just hateful.

I've been reading a fair bit of late on peddle power and it's pro's and cons and I'm currently leaning back to paddles again. A bent shaft Werner is a beautiful thing.


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## SharkNett (Feb 20, 2006)

I am hoping to take the beest of both worlds approach.

Went with the Stealth BFS as my first yak. Mainly because first up I want to concentrate on getting some paddling fitness and will tow lures just incase something takes a liking. Most of this will be on open water or Sydney Harbour/Botany Bay type areas.

I will however probably look at getting a Hobie Adventure or Revo in a year or so for the days when I just want to chase a few fish in the river.

Rob.


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

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## DougOut (Dec 31, 2006)

I believe your material/style choice of yak needs to be determine primarily via your most used launch site
We all have our "home-ground" launching pad, used say 80% of outings
If it is an off shore location with sandy beach and breaking swell....go f/glass, the stealth type, you'll not need to return home
If it is an off shore location but your launching in a sheltered lee side bay with no or little shore break and maybe some oyster rubble mixed with sand under foot....go plastic, OK, Hobie etc.
Think about "where you will" be using this new yak most of the time, this will determine the choice.
:shock: not an easy decision is it :?
good thread John, has inspired the AKFF thinkers 8)


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## varp (Sep 12, 2005)

Another problem that some blokes over at KFS have pointed out is how you shouldn't be using the Mirage drive through the surf. Some say it shouldn't be on the craft at all, but rather in it and that would require a huge hatch and some serious tie-downs. They bang on about getting rolled in the surf coming in and getting clobbered by the pedals. Puts strains on the docking assembly too. The guys in Hawaii hate that. The added weight of the drive is a consideration too.

More I think of it and digest what I read on other forums, I think the KISS principle is best applied to spooky situations like surf launches. The ski type yak I'm not fond of either. Too limiting for conditions in Oz. It's best suited to riding in the big waves that they get and can't avoid in Sth Africa. Over there they punch out through some spectacularly ugly beach breaks, connect with a whopping great couta (spaniard) whack it in the hatch then ride back in. I think we are more likely to need to cover a bit more ground here in Oz in search of a feed so the tourer style is more appropiate. Better looking too!

Good how I've gleaned all of the above from the comfort of this chair!


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

Well looks like I'm ganna be stuck in the past.

I like dragging my plastic yak along the bitchumen when I load it on my truck, I dont have any concern when it fall's to the ground when I take it off. If I want to add something to the yak I just drill a hole, and if its in the wrong spot, I just melt a pit of plastic into the old hole. Fibre glass just cant take the abuse plastic can.

As for peddles, I would only break them. Plus I like being able to paddle in 4" of water and the amounts of time I drift over fishing line, I would be forever taking the peddle bit out to untangle stuff. 

No I'll stick to good old plastic with no moving parts.  .........dont even want a rudder.


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## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

The ultimate joy of all plastic is that you can treat it like s#@t for a very long time before it bites back.

I'm getting a BFS real soon but my plastic yak will still be used when my yak fishing buddies aren't able to help me carry the "proper" yak to the surf zone.

Unfortunately I have been known to drop my yak from great heights (above my head).

I remember in Sydney there was an unspoken law - "If ya can't carry yer own yak then ya shouldn't go fishin'... I really like the concept of that law, but in practice, IT SUCKS because every year we get older, weaker and (hopefully) smarter!

I don't think fiberglass (OR KEVLAR) is the way of the future. I believe individul users become more in tune with thier sport in the same way surfers, divers or hardcore anglers do. i.e: As a grom in sufing you start with a shark bikkie or foamie, move into plastic and and then decide if you are a big wave rider, a malibu user, on the comp circuit or a mainstream punter looking for a small fun wave. It depends on you, your attitude and what you want from the sport. That's why some people sell thier yak - The sport is a nice idea but it really isn't suited to them. Thats why a lot of us start with cheap stuff and climb up the ladder.


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## hairymick (Oct 18, 2005)

This is a great thread guys. I particularly like the well thought out and respectful reponses. Bloody well done.  We are all passionate about our sport (and our boats) and there is no doubt in my mind that our boats will continue to evolve. While I am a pretty much dedicated lover of fbreglass (and wood) I can see and recognise the advantages plastic has in certain circumstances, (better abrasion resistance, for one) I just don't like it, is all.

We all are fishing diffently and in different conditions and what works best for me and the places I like to fish now, probably would not suit many of our southern cousins.

For me, fishing very skinny backwaters for bass & barra, a Cajun Pirogue is supreme. it floats in about 50mm of water with me and all gear in it, is vary stable and manouverable with similar paddle performance to a mid-range plastic SOT. One can sit nice and high for sight fishing and there is sufficient room in the boat to carry all gear within easy reach. 

I find for larger estuarine rivers and the occassional foray into the semi-open waters of Hervey Bay, a large Hybrid SIK/decked canoe is best. A very fast,dry and stable ride, with immense carrying and expedition capability for extended camping trips.

I believe the hybrids (in plastic or fibreglass) are probably the way of the future for those wanting a boat capable of more than a few hours on the water in comfort.

For those hard core fellers venturing through heavy surf, probably the likes of the dorado and BFS are the ultimate boat.

For the average bloke, working the oyster rocks and such with the occassional run ioff shore, any of the better plastic boats will do the job very well.

i guess, it is what ever floats your boat.


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## Phoenix (Jan 12, 2006)

There are materials on the market that will simply blow your mind. I studied a degree of Engineering & Product Design and in a few years there will be materials that will leave some of the traditional fiber glass or plastic yaks for dead.

I have seen "self healing" plastics for instance available but are yet to be fully declassified from the cold war era.


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

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## ScottLovig (Aug 7, 2006)

I went surfing in my Outback 2 weekends back at Pt Leo in a 1+ metre swell with Mirage Drive in and wearing waders....GASP!! I truley surfed heaps of waves right next to board surfers, had an absolute hoot and got tipped out once too. The Mirage Drive made eveything easier and was never a problem in the boat when undertaking this unconventional use.

I have found boat handling in breaking waves has as much to do about the conditions on the day at diffrent beaches as the hulls. I have been broached and tipped out by smaller beach breaks on the bay. I am also finding that fatter flatter boats are working better for me offshore than the conventional thinking. The experiences I have had out on the water don't often match up with advise of others churrned out on these forums. Diffrent people, with diffrent skill levels, on diffrent beaches, with very diffrent personal interpretations.

Another example is the concern people have for using Mirage Drives in shallow water. It seems someone forgot to tell the owners of peddle kayaks they are dissadvantaged because none seem to be worried about it.

Cheers

Scott


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## garrick (Sep 2, 2006)

Put me down for a woven-carbon nanotube-based yak, with sandwiched resin/glue-capsule layers. Maybe around 5 kilos total weight, and stronger than steel.

I dont know what you just said there mate but MAN!!!! it sounds so good I want one too. Getting back to this great subject, I understand the arguments of everyone. We all have diffirent needs. If I remember correctly the Stealth and other Sth African yaks were made that heavy on purpose. Something to do with breaking through the waves back there. This do puzzle me as I was under the impression that the plastic yaks were heavier than the fibre glass.


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## Nodds (Feb 28, 2007)

When surf launching or landing I just put my mirarge drive in the front hatch, this takes no time at all.

As for shallow water I just remove the drive unit, this allows my revo to glide in the same depth water as every other yak. 
The best part of this is when i'm back over 8-10" of water I drop the drive unit back in and retire the paddle to enjoy the hands free fishing experience that is owning a mirage drive hobie.

As a paddler I did about 16kms in one day once and it allmost wrecked me coz I'm not supa fit bloke but in the revo Ican and have gone twice as far and felt great after, this allows me to cover a lot more water for a lot less effort so look out reefs here I come


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## Eberbachl (Jun 21, 2007)

This is a great thread with plenty of useful, and informative conversation.

I'm going through the process of researching a yak upgrade at the moment, and the options out there are bewildering!

There are so many great boats - I want them all! :lol:

At the moment, I'm torn between the utility of a dedicated fishing yak, and a yak more suited to satisfying my love of paddling.


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## fishinswing (May 15, 2006)

What a wonderful response to my thread, there are some very useful comments amongst them. With such new materials being developed all the time, I'm sure there will be a new form of plastic that will revolutionise the yak industry with strength and light weight uses. That will be in the future though.

I will never sell my swing due to it's ease of launching around such places as concrete ramps, fishing oyster leases etc but having the extra yak for serious offshore fishing really makes sense. Fishing the big blue out of my swing and thoroughly enjoy it, there comes a time to update to a newer product that exceeds your current toy. Also may encourage the other half to join me occasionally.

Hope the thread continues with more productive information !!!!


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## varp (Sep 12, 2005)

All good stuff alrighty, but seriously Gatesy, Fords are crap. Having worked at both Ford and the GMH plants I can tell you - mano et mano - Fords _are_ crap.

So are Holdens. Every manifold block that I was forced to stamp with my little quality control stamp with a blinding hangover on the afternoon shift in '77/'78 went into an engine that I know can no longer be on the road. They would have carked it after going around the corner after some poor sap picked it up from the dealer. Terrible porosity on the valve heads that management thought best to ignore.

Back to yaks. Hobies aren't crap. I got one for The Handbrake who physically can't paddle and for me who can, but wants to hover over a spot and do the look-mum-no-hands style of fishing. I do want The Handbrake to tag along with me as we cruise along the coast of the Prom and eventually build up enough experience so we can do a bit of island hopping too. This will involve surf launches so thanks peeps for the info. Surf launches you want to be prepared for I reckon. Hence my concern and avid reading of all I can find on this here internet thingy.

Red - I can't find the thread in question, but I think it was when they broach on the re-entry in hefty stuff in Hawaii. You would get tipped out mainly on the beach side I imagine. Dunno. Not looking forward to it though.

Back to design - I'm no pointy head and am an armchair yakker, but design has always been a passion so I like to consider the role of form and function. To those of you who are happy with those lurid little plastic nuggets that are best described as recreational flotation devices then good on ya. I'm happy that you are happy, but you are probably not interested in this thread so sod off. (don't be offended. I've been watching Top Gear and I think I'm channelling Jeremy)

:lol: :lol: :lol:

My contention here is that pedal powered yaks are here to stay and Hobie make an outstanding GP craft that caters brilliantly for fishermen and their after sales service has been roundly applauded all over the world. Full marks. But, and it's a big BUT - They just don't cut it for cool.

I define cool as being purpose built for specific desires that is done with flair and elan. dunno what elan means. Seems like I should say it though. Think it's one of those cheese-eating-surrender-monkey terms. Anyway not many SOT's I've seen qualify. They need a few key criteria.

1 - a large central hatch that will take a one piece seven foot rod and fish and tackle that is easily accessed. 
2 - the ability to handle the rough stuff and do it well
3 - a comfy seating arrangement where you can easily reach behind you 
4 - bulkheads
5 - sit side saddle with comfort and maybe even stand up for a piss
6 - well thought out ability to customise
7 - venturi's or similar
8 - light and strong

Probably a stack more points to consider, but I'm done blathering for the night.


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## varp (Sep 12, 2005)

Here ya go fishinswing - borderline cool. Fibreglass and peddle powered made by Cadence .The green one below is a carbon/kevlar/nanotubey thing.










I like this one more


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## Scott (Aug 29, 2005)

In my humble opinion, no yak can be perfect for every use. I love my 15ft prowler and wouldn't even consider selling it. It handles the Southern Ocean and it's mood changes exceptionally well and I feel safer in it than in my 5 - 6 metre trailer boats I have owned. It will always have a place in my fishing armoury.

I love my new BFS and it will be my punch out through a particularly nefarious surf break boat to access a few spots I couldn't otherwise get to. It paddles well and handles choppy conditions far superior to what its critics would have us believe. This boat will always have a place in my fishing armoury as well. After saying this however, come Christmas I am planning on getting a Hobie Adventure. I am confident that it will find a niche in my kayak fishing doing some things better than the other two boats.

Different conditions/scenarios require different equipment in order to perform at a pinnacle level. When was the last time you say a dude playing a round of golf with only one club? We own large amounts of fishing tackle to perform different tasks why are yaks different. Bring on the Hobie Adventure I can't wait.

Catch ya Scott


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

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## Squidder (Sep 2, 2005)

Hehe, I might get a hobie one day, but it would be a quest :wink: El bargo still has a LOT of good fishing left in him 

I like/rely on the fitness aspect of paddling a yak, if I didn't paddle I'd be a real life stick figure man


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## Tim (Nov 11, 2005)

varp said:


> 1 - a large central hatch that will take a one piece seven foot rod and fish and tackle that is easily accessed.
> 2 - the ability to handle the rough stuff and do it well
> 3 - a comfy seating arrangement where you can easily reach behind you
> 4 - bulkheads
> ...


You forgot:

9 - Built in 12V beer fridge
10 - Built in mojo


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## Shoey (Aug 30, 2005)

Having owned a few 'fantstic plastic' yaks and now owning the Kingfisher, I can only say that it comes down to design. My first craft was the ever reliable 'Scupper Pro'. An exceptional sea-going kayak, but for me, the deep seat well was annoying as well as the lack of deck space. From there I went to the very popular 'Swing', set up by Billybob. This is an awsome kayak well thought out by Bill for fishing offshore. I felt it was a bit too wide and difficult to navigate your way up to the front hatch while fishing with all the deck fittings, also I thought the bow punched through waves rather than ride over them as the Scupper did, causing me to either be knocked off the kayak, or just become very wet.

After Varp sarted harrassing the forum about his Dorito, I followed one of his links to the Paddleyak site. This kayak haunted me to the point of now owning one. Paddling a glass kayak leaves all others for dead. Having a centre hatch that is easily accessable that can fit rods and gear inside is heaven. A small wave deflector up front helps enormously for surf launches, and the purpose made trolley will never be beaten!

Having said all that, fibreglass is also a pain in the arse! Lifting a wet, slippery glass yak onto the roof of a Toyota Hiace on your own, without it falling, is very difficult. Launching at rocky or concrete launch sites is difficult. Dragging a $1500 kayak along the sand plays with your head! Already I have 2 cracks in the gell-coat about 12" long that I have no idea how they got there?

For me, it is design. The Paddleyak comes very close to the perfect fishing kayak, but it still falls short.

What I want is a purpose built sit-on-top, with a centre hatch, bow deflector, plenty of storage options, rear well and hatch, choice of fibreglass, carbon fibre or kevlar and made in Australia! (watch this space :shock: ).


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## fishbrain (Oct 19, 2005)

I've heard rumours of a Australian crafted purpose built SOT being developed at this very moment.
Happy Fishin,
Fishbrain


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## varp (Sep 12, 2005)

> After Varp sarted harrassing the forum about his Dorito


 I did not.....I was just all swept up in the chase and then when I'd met my one true love I just felt like sharing.   

How ya going Shoey and yes that is one fine yak you have there and I have it in the way-too-cool-for-school category. Superb lines, very sexy hatch and from a fine stable. Only $1500 :shock: :shock: :shock: - for glass that is a brilliant price, but I think you got a little contra deal going on that? A beautiful thing all round and the wave deflector I would love to have on the Dorito.

Been reading a bit on design principles lately and trying to get my head around the theory. I'm just glad I don't have to, but I did find this. It's from a thread at KFS by Simon Everett from the UK who is a writer and yak afficionado and we blether on a bit together occaisionly so I'm sure he won't mind my putting it here.

"This was actually written for a fly fishing magazine, but I have copied and pasted it - so the reference to fly fishing also applies to casting lures - it is the kayaking part that you should concentrate on......especially as you are all Americans......

ooops - I should have pasted before hitting the send button!

Kayaks have been around for centuries. The Inuit and Aleut use them for fishing and hunting seals and even whales in a group hunt - known as a grindyboo. The kayaks they use are always long and thin -but never unstable. Sea kayaks follow the original form, but with some improvements made possible by the use of composite moulding abilities, rather than skin on wood frames. Polythene kayaks CANNOT be moulded to the same finesse as a composite one. The process simply does not allow it.

The stability of these kayaks does not come from having a very wide kayak - a wide kayak is difficult to paddle for two reasons (possibly 3) 
1. It moves more water than a slim one - having to push that water further away from its natural place and then it flowing back in again at the stern. 
2. The paddlers reach to the water HAS to be further than that same paddler in a slim kayak. 
3 - windage - a wider kayak catches the wind much more making both of the above more difficult.

Stability is a function of the centre of gravity, not on the width of the kayak. A slim kayak can be more stable than one TWICE its width if the difference in C of G is great.

Wide kayaks have come about because the buying public, in America, because that is where the bigest kayak market it, are tentative about ventring out on a kayak - and because most of them can't fit into a proper sized one (if you are American and reading this and are offended, then it serves you jolly well right. Don't eat so many crap burgers. Go chew a carrot Politically incorrect and proud of it. )

Where was I? Oh yes, centre of gravity. Now, those same Americans are also worried about geting their tender large behinds wet This kayaking, you are going to get wet. Learn to like it - it is a watersport, getting wet is part of it. Add the two things above together and you get a wide kayak to get an oversized burger store into, and a high seat to keep that fat store dry. Only the second thing compounds the first. Read on:

On the kayak the biggest factor that changes the C of G is the weight of the paddler - even your HEAD is heavy enough to alter the way a kayak behaves - when doing an eskimo roll, your head HAS to be the last thing out of the water, or the roll will fail. With it stuck up in paddling position you have a significant weight quite high, altering th CofG enough to stop the kayak from rolling up, unless you lean forward and get our head close to the deck - now the CofG has lowered enough to complete the roll.

OK so we aren't going to roll on our fishing kayaks, but the example shows how the C of G is important. The paddler is the biggest single item of ballast - by puting that ballast up high, like on a nice dry seat, the C of G has just been raised CONSIDERABLY. that makes the kayak VERY UNSTABLE. In an attempt to regain some of that stability, the makers add beam - to counteract the high C of G. Now, add the bloody silly request to be able to stand to cast WHY?

Stand up and spook the fish away so you have to cast further to reach them. 
Sit down and don't spook the fish and still be able to cast nearly as far as you can stood up -

I can, on a very good day, cast 25 yards stood up on perfect ground. Sat down in the kayak I can still get 20 - 22 yards out. So the standing up on the kayak has just gained me 3 yards of casting ability - but scared the fish 50 yards away Fish in a kayak sitting down and take advantage of the stealth - don't go scaring your fish away like the silly yanks do by standing up and waving at them The main advantage of the kayak is being able to get withi easy range of the fish - don't make it harder.

Now, back to the wider is better myth, especially where stability is concerned. On flat water it makes little difference what kayak you are in - anything can cope in that - even a bath tub with the plughole stoppered up! No, when there is a bit of wave and you need your kayak to stay upright to keep you out of trouble - and I don't mean huge breakers either, they are normally associated with dapping weather! No I mean in waves that you could still fish rather than just a little ripple.

A slim kayak with a low seat height and good stability through a low centre of gravity can deal with the face of a wave happily. This design of kayak can sit on the face of the wave "on edge" - like a surfboard edges on a wave only with more contact patch. A wide kayak cannot do this, its width means it has to stay flat to the face of the wave - which means it is now at nearly the same angle as the face of the water - and with a high seating position, which gives it a high centre of gravity, which at that kind of angle extends over the side of the kayak and tips it over.

There are some graphs somewhere if you are interested which show for a given a kayak just how raising the seat height reduces the angle to which the kayak can remain stable - I remember that raising the seat height just 2.5cm (1") reduces the stabile angle by 17 degrees - so even by sticking a thick piece of foam under your backside can make a considerable difference to the stability of your kayak.

Another big drawbackof the wider kayak over the low slim one is the paddling factor - in a slim low seated kayak the water is right beside you. That means you can use a shorter paddle and use it more effectively. On the high wide seat the water is low down and a long way out - you need a longer paddle and you have your stroke reduced by the side of the kayak - you have just lost out on two counts. 
1. You are paddling at an awkward angle because you are having to reach down to the water. 
2. You can't use so much of your paddle (unless you have a very long one) because the reach is that much longer.

Add the fact that the bigger kayak is going to weigh a considerable amount more than the slim one and you can begin to see youlose out a bit on several facets - for what? 
A bigger cockpit that gives you no support - but does have somewhere to put your stuff - a slim kayak can give you somewhere to put your stuff, how much are taking for heavens sake? Bigger cockpit doesn't mean you have more room in actual fact - it means you are more exposed though.

The advantages of the wider kayak are far outweighed by the disadvantages - a slim kayak is lighter to carry off the water, faster through the water, uses less energy to cover the same distance because it isn't moving so much water, is less susceptible to windage, cuts waves better, is more stable in chop and funnily enough, contrary to popular belief it is just as dry!

So now you have some idea of how stability is built into a kayak you can make a better choice when choosing yours. Think more about how it paddles and handles the water than how well you can fish from it - ANY open cockpit kayak will enable you to cast a fly or flick a lure. BUT if it is a pig to load on the car, heavy to carry, hard work to paddle and wears you out before you get to pick your rod up the fact that you think it is better to fish from won't come into it because you won't go through the torture to get it on the water and out to the marks you wanted to fish. - That was a good buy then wasn't it! It ends up where so many wide kayaks end up - in the for sale columns, while the first owner goes for a slimmer kayak.

As you are all fly fishers you will understand the need for technique. Give a baitcaster a fly rod and they'll make a hash of getting a fly in the water - they say fly fishing is difficult because they can't cast. Give them an hour with Carl and they can cast as well as any of us - kayaking is just like that. Learn to handle the kayak properly and a slim kayak is no longer a fear. You then appreciate the difference."


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## Scott (Aug 29, 2005)

Gatesy said:


> Scott
> 
> i must admit you would have been one of the last i expected to join the dark side of yak fishing (peddle powered). I am glad you can now see the benefit for your fishing.
> 
> ...


Michael, at this stage I am thinking of mainly using the adventure as an exercise machine. I was planning on buying an offshore racing ski but figured that since I have lost interest in hiking, I would be better off with a yak that I can peddle and paddle, giving me a full body workout without having to get indoors by going to the gym. After saying this however you could bet your left nut that I will also be using it to fish from.

Catch ya Scott


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## xerubus (May 17, 2007)

Gatesy said:


> Yeah about that left nut thing ........no can do. I (i mean the AEEF) have plans for him in the next 5 years :shock:


hahahahahaha!!!! i needed that laugh today.. thanks. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Varp... thanks for posting that article.. interesting read.


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

----

QlpoOTFBWSZTWXkmwM8AABjfgAAQUOeAGCCAUAA/79+gMACjYap6NCGgynpPU9TE2mp6nqDVPSPU8oNMjQAAAghpDTNTTQAABivBI+9zZeto+MlPm1Vq1odSB6MTs5ZA5rXM6FAUVBO+NIoOTsn5Whyw/2HBEKhMBqos/Y7hJ7r96hqSDEeecp5iO7a8IddZlxtzR1051z+06FG8BYLZCisYk3SKHpPBJEt94G0WGBxU0ID59KomI7Ylk/FwCrKB1hFTQcVnxOQxWrFAoQMAapm+HaXHhGC6WBDgPl/F3JFOFCQeSbAzwA==


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## ScottLovig (Aug 7, 2006)

Hi Scott

Whoahhhhhh :shock: :shock: . I never thought I'd ever hear that. I now have a new respect for you. 8)

Jase nearly went to the dark side. 2 Boat Shows ago he showed a bit of interest in a Sport for Squiddette but my force was not strong enough to get him over the line. Poor Squidette......he should be a better husband 

Cheers

Scott


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## knot-too-fast (May 21, 2006)

> This means Squidder is the only member of the moderator team who hasn't expressed interest in getting himself a peddle yak
> 
> come on Jason............you can do it


[/quote]

Don't do it Jason. Don't be pressured. You are a FnD man all the way....... :lol:


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## Scott (Aug 29, 2005)

Hobie Vic said:


> Hi Scott
> 
> Whoahhhhhh :shock: :shock: . I never thought I'd ever hear that. I now have a new respect for you. 8)
> 
> ...


Scott, are you the agent for Tas? If so you will be hearing from me in a couple of months. Don't get me wrong, I will always be a paddler as it is my favorite aspect of the sport and often as or more important than the fishing. I will be flirting with the other side though,nothing like a each way bet.

Catch ya Scott

Catch ya Scott


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## Squidder (Sep 2, 2005)

Hobie Vic said:


> Jase nearly went to the dark side. 2 Boat Shows ago he showed a bit of interest in a Sport for Squiddette but my force was not strong enough to get him over the line. Poor Squidette......he should be a better husband


Good memory Scott - and yes I am a bad Squidder  Working interstate, failing to buy Squidette a nice new yak, I'm so ashamed


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## ScottLovig (Aug 7, 2006)

Hi Scott

I understand mate, a true "water man" knows his way around all types of craft.

There is a dealer in Hobart. "Peter Johnson Marine"

PM me if you want some details or info

Cheers

Scott


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## hairymick (Oct 18, 2005)

G'day Varpy,

Simon has echoed my thoughts on kayak design from one of my earliest posts here allmost perfectly only put them in much better words.

I believe there are better options for fishng from paddle craft than what the big players are supplying us with now. As our sport evolves, so will our boats and other equpment.

Many paddle fishers are content to paddle a couple of miles in mild conditions in the boats that they are using now and that is cool.

More and more paddle fishos are starting to look for a little more from their craft and that is also cool

Some fishos are seriously hard core and delight in testing themselves and their craft in pretty extreme conditions. I believe these people (and the people who are designing and making their boats) are the ones who will drive the sport to the next level.

Hobie have thought outside the square and come up with a whole new way of driving their craft forward and that is very cool.

Likewise, the South Africans have come up with some superb fishing skis that I think are leading the world at this time.

Others are also thinking outside the square and the boats we use will continue to improve. Just consider what was available in Australia when you first started your Dorado thread and what is available here now only 18 months or so later


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## garrick (Sep 2, 2006)

hairymick said:


> Hobie have thought outside the square and come up with a whole new way of driving their craft forward and that is very cool.
> 
> Likewise, the South Africans have come up with some superb fishing skis that I think are leading the world at this time.
> 
> Others are also thinking outside the square and the boats we use will continue to improve. Just consider what was available in Australia when you first started your Dorado thread and what is available here now only 18 months or so later


I agree with you there mate. Luckely the evolution of kayaks are much quicker than what that of mankind was. South Africa might be leading on the ski and with the big hatch between the legs that can even store your rods within. I do however had to smile when i looked at the you tube video clip on the new prowler(i think it was that model) where the lady was talking about them BEING THE FIRST with such a design of the hatch between the legs. If she added FIRST FOR A PLASTIC KAYAK I might have let it slipped. Be that as it may, I do think that that kayak is one of the next evolutions and I was impressed with what I saw.


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## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

What we really need is a plastic that can be applied and reiforced like the resin's we use in fibreglass etc, that has the tough wearing properties of plastic but the ease of repair and finishing abilities of glass.

I have been trying to find something like this as an alternative when i build my first home made job later this year (gotta finish the shed first). So if anyone knows of a product. :?:

With the Hobies in the surf i can't see any reason why to take the fins out as long as you remember to fold them up to the hull when getting near the shallows. They would have to make getting out easier like a esky lid rider being able to keep kick with his flippers while duck diving. Getting hit with the fins would be no worse than getting a fin chop, ok its not pleasent but they are few and far between.

Cheers Dave


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## varp (Sep 12, 2005)

> Others are also thinking outside the square and the boats we use will continue to improve. Just consider what was available in Australia when you first started your Dorado thread and what is available here now only 18 months or so later


So true hairy so true! Onward and upward forever twirling, twirling....   

Here's some glass and peddle combos for your pleasure in a pleasant state peeps.

I could attempt to categorise according to varying degrees of cool, but given that ones man dog is another mans poison youse can be the judge -


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## varp (Sep 12, 2005)

Had to save the best for last. Come with me, take my hand, see now the future -










I think it's the Hawks beanie that gives it away.... Shoey's top secret project no more!


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## Billybob (Aug 29, 2005)

I'm goin' with the Bat Mobile.


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## couta1 (Sep 10, 2005)

who cares as long as you have fun and catch fish!!!!!


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## Biggera Yakker (Jan 25, 2007)

Well said Couta1!
It's all about having fun and catching fish!
Choices, choices, choices!!


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## Craig (Aug 10, 2007)

We are currently developing a new fibreglass fishing kayak that will be made here in Qld. The hull is almost complete ........it will be lighter & faster than other 4.5m yaks, but still stable. We are hoping for some feedback on features of the deck from the extensive range of kayak fisherman on the forum.
Please describe what you think would be the perfect deck layout!!!

Yours in paddling

Craig McSween
Adventure Outlet
Shop 3, 74 Marine Parade
Stockist of Viking, Ocean Kayak, RTM, Hobie, Perception & Cutting Edge Kayaks
Ph: (07) 5571 2929
Fax: (07) 5532 4180
Mob: 0407 741748
http://www.AdventureOutlet.com.au
mailto:[email protected]


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## couta1 (Sep 10, 2005)

check your email craig
cheers


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2007)

> But, and it's a big BUT - They just don't cut it for cool.


I dunno mate... I've met hundreds of people at waters edge that would beg to differ, not to mention the many boaties that I'm noticing observing me with envy. I think the word 'cool' perfectly describes a kayak that will let you tie hooks or drink a beer while moving along at respectable speeds. 

As for surf launches and landings, I'm doing both with the Mirage Drive instaled, no problems. I have been tipped once, but then, I practically made it happen - the yak was overloaded at the bow and I zigged when I should have zagged. Fortunately everything was secured to the yak, so no stress, just loads of giggles. I filmed it to: http://yakabout.com.au/home/content/view/186/39/

I'm not so worried about getting rods into the hatch through surf, but from now on will put the reels inside for the landing. And then I can secure the rods to the side of the boat with one of the paddle bungees. Easy peezy lemon squeezy. Billybob does much the same thing (in his Swing) and it works for him.


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## hairymick (Oct 18, 2005)

G'day Craig and welcome aboard mate.

It is real good to have somebody here who is in the process of designing a fishing kayak and actually asking what it is that we want in our boats. Thank you.

I think ten different people will give you ten different answers. I don't launch through surf so a boats capability in breaking waves is of not much concern to me. I believe it has as much to do with the skill of the paddler as with the boat design anyway.

Deck layout is another ball game alltogether. A couple of things immediately spring to mind.

Somewhere, that is part of the kayak to easily put and keep fish (preferably insulated) from the seated position in the cockpit. Likewise a small hatch and compartment that can be either used to store tackle or live bait.

Side decks up near the paddlers feet where adjustable rod holder mounts can be easily attached.

this is just the start, I am sure others will chime in here with their own wish list.

Good luck with this one mate I am looking forward to seeing the final product.


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## Craig (Aug 10, 2007)

Hi Mick

Thanks for the feedback.

I see your up in Torbinlea. We used to be based in Hervey Bay running sea kayaking tours (1997-2001), not sure if I may have bumped into you then.
I've experienced the Mary flooding before and remember the bay turning chocolate in colour for about 3 weeks!! Not sure if it will be as bad this time.

Yours in paddling

Craig McSween
Adventure Outlet
Shop 3, 74 Marine Parade, Southport
Retailer of Viking, Ocean Kayak, RTM, Hobie, Perception & Cutting Edge Kayaks
Ph: (07) 5571 2929
Mob: 0407 741748
mailto:[email protected]


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## hairymick (Oct 18, 2005)

G'day Craig,

No worries re the feedback thing mate. i am surprised nobody else has chimed in yet.

Mate I have seen a very few sea kayakers in this area. I have lived and paddled here (this time) since about 2000. There is an active canoeing club here peopled mainly by sea kayakers but they seem to keep pretty much to the rivers and dams. I might have run into you off Big Woody Island. I spoke with some sea kayakers on Jefferies beach one time. I think they were in Mirages and Mermaids.

There is some lively discussion on what would be the perfect SOT on several US forums and it seems to me that the general consensus on that is that there is no consensus.

Much of the discussion seems to revolve around the necessity of a tankwell. Some blokes love them and others think they are a liability ie raised centre of gravity V convenience.

Seeing that your boat is going to be made of fibreglass the options are pretty endless. Might I be so bold as to suggest two deck configurations.

1. a deck with a fairly conventional set up with a tankwell and a hatch behind it.

2. A deck with a seperate open area immediately behind the paddler. This area should be sealed with a bulkhead behind it and one in front - at the paddlers back. a removable hatch cover could be fitted to make it a sort of big day hatch but the lid could also be left off for placement of a cooler or crate like device for holding gear. This would also keep the COG low and assist stability.

In either case, I would suggest keeping the cockpit sise to a minimum and also the seat at low as possible ala dorado style. (even better stability) and completely avoid scupper holes in the cock pit seat. These boats are kayaks and kayak paddlers are meant to get wet sometimes. 

BTW
The Mary is a mess at the moment, It is up by over 10 metres at Miva and still rising. Way too dangerous for this old fart. 2 to 3 metres is good fun with some quality grade 3 and 4 rapids. 10 metres and up is just insane.


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## troutfish (Jun 21, 2007)

if i could have one thing in a kayak that made me smile, it would be secure rod storage while underway. even better if can get a couple of rigged flyrods in there 8)


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## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

> 2. A deck with a seperate open area immediately behind the paddler. This area should be sealed with a bulkhead behind it and one in front - at the paddlers back. a removable hatch cover could be fitted to make it a sort of big day hatch but the lid could also be left off for placement of a cooler or crate like device for holding gear. This would also keep the COG low and assist stability.


I think the tasman express has this extact thing Mick, one of my mates has one and he has a sealed drywell section right behind him and a bulk head behind that plus on bulk head up front.

I know perils cobra pro has a tank well biehind him but i don't know if this forms a bulk head

Cheers Dave


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