# Offshore Safety Device Vote - EPIRB or PLB?



## royourboat

From what I have learned on my journeys, we are required to have an EPIRB and VHF radio tuned to channel 16 whilst offshore > 3nm. I believe this varies state-to-state, but is true for NSW. That being said, many including New South Welshman (and others) are disobeying the law and using PLB's or not carrying a PLB or EPIRB. Some are just carrying a VHF or nothing at all.

I can see why people are disobeying the law, as they feel they are safer by carrying the PLB. So I'm just trying to quantify how many people are doing what?

For the sake of the poll, lets just assume that you are paddling >3nm from shore, carrying a VHF and that it is illegal to not carry an EPIRB in your state (even though none of this may be the case).


----------



## Scott

PLB in the front pocket of my PFD for me.


----------



## mangajack

PLB is the obvious answer for yakkers, an EPIRB on a yak will be a safety hazard in so many ways.


----------



## kayakone

The law says, 2 nautical miles offshore an EPIRB is required.

The reasons are:

1. It is self righting.

2. It floats.

3. The batteries last 48 hours +

Most PLB specifications are less than all this, but EPIRBS are much bigger and more expensive, and, frankly if you in trouble in a SOT, activate your PLB. You will still get help quickly, especially if you have a PLB with GPS.


----------



## Squidley

We have similar laws in SA. If there's a reasonably compact model that isn't triggered by water I might get one.


----------



## HAWKEYE3

I don't go very far offshore but I would consider carrying an epirb if I became more adventurous.

I like the idea of a PLB and would probably support them being adopted in lieu of an epirb for kayak use.

Ian


----------



## Scruffy

http://www.maritime.nsw.gov.au/sbh/safe ... pment.html.

In NSW kayaks are not required to carry epirbs or plbs on all waters. A PFD must be worn if you are a 100 Metres from shore.A VHF radio or a mobile phone is recommended in a water proof pouch but is not mandatory.
I personally would not venture far off shore without a VHF radio and a PLB.


----------



## dru

Ignoring the legal stuff there are two other options:

1. VHF with emergency call function
2. Spot

Both have advantages over PLB. Still I have PLB. I also am quite happy to cop the legal hit for no EPIRB if that was necessary.

As a note though, I understand that firing off your PLB at night may mean you wait till morning (they may not send a chopper at night). So hold off u til close to daybreak. EPIRB doesn't have this issue, fire it off. If you are still in trouble t 48 hours, well....


----------



## royourboat

Thanks Scruffy, i should of edited the post when I realised the following day that I confused Qld? and NSW regs.

Jesus Tony, you forgot the V-sheet, mirror and whistle. You idiot! Seriously, nice list, did you have a photo of your kit? I presume the majority of it is in a container that you take with you if abandoning the TI.

What PLB does everyone have?


----------



## cheaterparts

for Vic the min requirements for more than 2 nm off shore is

Water Proof , Buoyant Torch
Bailer - can be an electric or manual bilge pump
Spare Oars/paddle
2 Orange and 2 red flares
Compass
and an Eprib ( thats a full epirb PLBs dont count as part of the min saftey gear )

a radio is also not part of the saftey gear on a human powered craft you only have to have one on powered craft

atm I dont have ether but also dont go off shore as yet an epirb is on the shpping list


----------



## emufingers

2nm off shore needs an EPIRB. EPIRBs are set up to international specs and transmit accurate GPS data. They are monitored by trained professionals 24 hours 7 days. 
PLB's may not be et up for Australian Satellite systems, are monitored by your friends and relatives and may or may not have reliable calculation of GPS coordinates depending on suitability for Australian conditions. 
If you have ever tried to find a kayak in poor or no light in deteriorating weather conditions, you would always go for an EPIRB. Australian Rescue aircraft are set up to track EPIRBS so triangulation of position and calculation of drift is much more accurate.

Sure they tend to be bigger and more expensive but If you want to be found alive, they are worth it. For those who are convinced that "it wont happen to me" let me tell you the ones who are rescued and probably the few who have died thought that too. They were wrong.


----------



## Ado

PLB

You are in the most trouble is separated from your yak. Therefore it must be small enough to carry in your PFD or arounf your neck. I can't imagine any EPIRB currently on the market fitting that bill.

Yep, you are going to have to hold it upright. It may or may not last the night, but I'm not venturing onto the ocean in the dark anyway.


----------



## dru

Ado said:


> PLB
> 
> You are in the most trouble is separated from your yak. Therefore it must be small enough to carry in your PFD or arounf your neck. I can't imagine any EPIRB currently on the market fitting that bill.
> 
> Yep, you are going to have to hold it upright. It may or may not last the night, but I'm not venturing onto the ocean in the dark anyway.


Or hold on to firing it off till the sun looks like rising. Totally agree with your thinking Ado.


----------



## Ado

royourboat said:


> What PLB does everyone have?


I have this one. Long battery life, GPS, floats (but not upright), registered in the same way as an EPIRB. I just renewed my registration last week. They know I'm likely to be in a kayak as that's part of the registration. I also take it with me if walking rivers (like the snowy), and they know that too. It can be taken on aircraft if you want to go on holidays.

http://www.gme.net.au/products/emergency-beacons/plbs/MT410G


----------



## cheaterparts

Tonystott said:


> There is NO DIFFERENCE between an EPIRB and a PLB except an EPIRB must operate while floating, and must have a battery life of at least 48 hours,. A PLB need not float (although mine does) but must be attached in such a way that the aerial is pointed upwards out of the water, and its battery must last at least only 24 hours. Also an EPIRB can be just manually operated, it doesn't have to be automatic.
> 
> Both the EPIRB and PLB can be purchased without an inbuilt GPS, in which case searchers will have to look in a 5km radius, while one with GPS will provide the searchers with a target of only 100m radius. EG No difference between PLB and EPIRB.


of cause the real difference here in Vic is that a PLB is not part of the Min requirements so if you go off shore and have a PLB you also need an EPRIB

not sure what other states regs are


----------



## Squidley

Ado said:


> PLB
> 
> You are in the most trouble is separated from your yak. Therefore it must be small enough to carry in your PFD or arounf your neck. I can't imagine any EPIRB currently on the market fitting that bill.


Aye that's the thing with SA regs...PLBs seem more practical but EPIRBs are mandated. Should have a PLB on me anyway before I get anywhere near the 2 nm mark, that's just sensible.


----------



## Scott

Ado said:


> royourboat said:
> 
> 
> 
> What PLB does everyone have?
> 
> 
> 
> I have this one. Long battery life, GPS, floats (but not upright), registered in the same way as an EPIRB. I just renewed my registration last week. They know I'm likely to be in a kayak as that's part of the registration. I also take it with me if walking rivers (like the snowy), and they know that too. It can be taken on aircraft if you want to go on holidays.
> 
> http://www.gme.net.au/products/emergency-beacons/plbs/MT410G
Click to expand...

I have the same one and use it for the same purposes. Mind you mine is 4 years old, there could be something better out there these days. As the other guys have said, just pay the bit extra for the GPS functionality which ever make or model you decide on.


----------



## emufingers

Thanks to Kraley and TonyStott for the clarifications. My post was too brief to be accurately interpreted and I failed to distinguish between SPOT and PLB. I also had not checked that all PLB's sold in Australia not have a tracking signal for rescue craft. It appears that the situation has changes over the last three years when I last read the complete AMSA manuals.

The problem I want to raise is that there are many people out there who are not clear about what they are purchasing and not all will register their EPIRB or PLB with AMSA and therefore never know whether the product has an Australian Uniform ID. There are PLBs from overseas suppliers on ebay that are considerably cheaper but do not have Australian Coding.

The SPOT system which uses mobile phone networks to notify relatives has been interpreted as a PLB by some purchasers. It is seen as a way of avoiding the need to be identified to regulators by some of those who like small government. The Spot system does not provide the professional back up links and tracking capability of a Proper PLB or EPIRB

The main problem I have with PLB's is that they are not included in most State legislation and therefore there is increased likelihood of access to equipment not fully suited to Australian Conditions i.e without an Australian UID

The protection of either device is increased as Squidley shows through registration of the device.

My preference for the EPIRB is based on the longer operation and the float upright requirement. EPIRBS can be attached to a person by a line and assist with a person separated from their Kayak.

Communication with the Satellites is intermittent as the satellite circles the globe and a device that floats upright is more likely to have effective transmission during the windows of opportunity to contact the rescue satellite. It is important to understand that the GPS satellites do not receive any transmission from the device. A GPS only receives timing data from satellites. The fact that you know where you are, does not mean that a rescuer knows where you are. It is only when your transmission is receive by the rescue satellite network that a rescue will be initiated.


----------



## Daveyak

.


----------



## cheaterparts

Daveyak said:


> It's a personal tracker using the satellite phone network, not the mobile phone networks although one of its services is that it can send messages (via satellite) to mobile phones. They are not intended for marine applications but could be used in some situations. To be able to use a SPOT you have to have a subscription to their service and they provide a very professional back up & support. They have a tracking function so others are able to see where you are at ten minute intervals & it also has the ability to send for non emergency assistance or for the full on rescue mode assistance.
> 
> They are a very useful tool for use in areas with no mobile phone coverage but not really meant to compete with EPIRBs in the marine environment.


and yes they do work --- a mate was out with a group motor cycle trail riding in the high country and one of them broke his ankle
they used the spot trackers help button and in a short time a help was there and he was air lifted out they were way out of any mobile range

this is not a kayak case but with the GPS locating of these units help could be sent to any place needed in the world


----------



## emufingers

Gee I stuffed up again. The last time I check on SPOT there was no agreement to contact AMSA. The contacts were limited to phone numbers and the literature only documented being able to list emergency service numbers in US and Europe. I missed that the link with AMSA had been established


----------



## Daveyak

.


----------



## emufingers

Thanks Dave, I have gone off and done some homework to get my mind map corrected and am putting the results here. SPOT was considerably upgraded in 2009. Many of the references on the internet focus on the US and do not mention the situation as it applies to Australia. I have downloaded the satellite coverage maps for Spot and the LeoSar system used by EPIRBS and PLB's for Australia. There is some additional Australia coverage by GEOSAR.

The Cospas-Sarsat LEOSAR system provides global coverage for 406 MHz beacons. Below is a list of the sites where LEOSAR local user terminals (LEOLUTS) are located. Beacons that are activated in the areas shown in white on the map may have their transmissions detected and relayed to a LEOLUT for processing almost immediately, depending on the positions of overflying satellites. Transmissions of beacons activated in the blue areas are stored when they are received by the satellite and later transmitted to a LEOLUT when the satellite passes near that ground station. (See the GEOSAR coverage map for the locations where beacon alert transmissions can be relayed immediately at all times by the GEOSAR satellites, provided that they are no terrain or other obstructions of the signal.)

SPOT works around the world, including virtually all of the continental United States, Canada, Mexico, Europe and Australia, portions of South America, Northern Africa, and North-Eastern Asia and hundreds or thousands of miles offshore of these areas. In Russia, the GPS accuracy of your SPOT is limited (degraded) in accordance with Russian regulations restricting the accuracy of GPS performance for devices utilized in Russia.

Coverage maps are shown in attachments for LeoSar and Spot and GEOSAR


----------



## unkeyherb

Epirb for me. I know there a little bulky but after some research the epirb was better.


----------



## malhal

I have a gps equipped PLB strapped to me at all times waterproof floating mobile phone and inflatable pfd when heading offshore. I figure what is the use of a epirb floating away with the yak as has happened to some in the past and me possibly nowhere near it. But each to their own.

Cheers Mal


----------

