# Can YOU swim?



## Davey G

Simple question.

Can YOU swim?

How far?

Can you swim in choppy water?

For how long?

How long has it been since you last swam any real distance?

2 kayakers lost their lives this week. I wonder if they could swim.

Can you? Really?


----------



## bazzoo

I agree Davey , and its terribly important that anyone venturing out into water above their heads is able to swim at least 200 meters . The thing that worries me is that even for a strong swimmer its not easy to swim with a PFD , nevertheless , thats no excuse for not wearing one


----------



## wopfish

Yes ! Swam in onto a beach in six foot waves at night and getting fukced by the rip too - fricken scary.........

But I think I'd struggle in that wind chop as it appeared in PPB - it would be constant - no timing of the waves. Coming at you from all angles........ repeatedly having to breath but the waves smashing you......

Me - my thoughts on a pure guess on what happened and what I'd do - is I'd get in the water and get my wrist into the toggle at the end of the yak - float with it ...... eventually I would have been blown to shore somewhere........... BUT died of exposure in the process....

Its a hard one Davey G.......... these guys looked inexperienced but they were also in trecherous conditions........ perhaps the biggest mistake was not keeping an eye on the weather.........


----------



## BIGKEV

I am very confident in my own swimming abilities. I did way too much club and rep swimming as a kid. I still swim regularly during summer now that I'm approaching 40, just to stay fit and ready for footy season in winter. I swim up to 3klm in a session and try to do a pool session every week (time permiting)

BUT, swimming in a PFD in bad 'open water' conditions is very much different to pool swimming laps.

The electrics on the back of the yaks in these photos tell a story to me and these guys were obviously also caught out by the weather and did not get the chance to learn from their mistake. Just goes to show that nature is cruel and does not offer up opportunities to make errors all that often.

Kev


----------



## wetbeaver

lucky for me i got tought by the army cadets as we had to tread water with cotten camo gear and boots for ten minutes. also for 3 lots
in the surf lifesaving clubs they tell you to never let go of your board under any circumstances, why did these guys that was there lifeline. one guy obviusly had a go at swimming to shore as he was found inside the inlet the other guy was 500m off shore.


----------



## Zed

Yes.
I'm fortunate to have lived my whole life in, at, on or near water and the majority of it in the ocean.

Whether you are Olympic class or doggy paddler, once you are in the water w/ you vest on, you are not going to make much headway, especially in rough conditions. The most important is to keep calm and kick. You aren't going to overcome the seas to get to the destination you want. Just 2ft windswell will just smack you back. You need to keep yourself alive, not wear yourself out trying to get that 600m to shore against the windchop. Ride it out and keep your head above water.


----------



## bazzoo

I am also an advocate if going offshore or into water that is open or can chop up quickly to tether your paddle to the ski as in wave skis, that way if you come off and hang onto the paddle you wont be seperated from the ski . I know its easy for guys like myself who have spent their whole 71 years in the water and in the surf on crafts and swimming, to come up with suggestions about things that over the years have just become 2nd nature to me , a Newbie dosnt have that luxery so has to be even more dilligent and always err on the side of safety


----------



## Barrabundy

I can swim right up until I have a heart attack or drown. That's being honest, I think I'd seriously struggle to swim 200m no matter how slow I took it.


----------



## Davey G

My point with this thread is to get YOU to think about what the hell you would do if you became seperated from your kayak in rough water.

Many of us 'THINK' that we are good swimmers because we once swam competitively back in our high school days, or did a triathlon when we were 21. Just how long ago was that exactly?

Many of us who have grown up around the water and have paddled, surfed, swum and snorkelled for 30 years may have a better understanding of the nature of the ocean but unless you can back that up with some decent aerobic / swim fitness you are still going to struggle if the conditions aren't ideal.

I 'thought' I was a decent swimmer as I've always surfed, paddled, spearfished and spend most of my summers in the water and around boats. However when I started training for my bronze medallion earlier this year I found out that I was actually a crap swimmer with bugger all fitness. I now swim (pool and ocean) a couple of times each week, plus do water safety at my kids nippers and I STILL struggle to swim continuously for more than a few hundred metres in calm conditions, and much less in rough water. When i first started training for my bronze I was out of breath after only 100 metres, and I reckon 90% of AKFF members would be the same.

No offence intended but we do have a lot of big units in our ranks. That extra spare tyre round your guts may help you float well, but do the extra kilos make you less competent in the water? How long has it been since you have actually been in the water?

Start answering these questions guys/girls. If you continue to ignore them, you are risking everything. I'd like to hope that all AKFFers are self-sufficient on the water at all times (and no that doesnt mean having 11 rods and 3 kilos of spare lures onboard)

Next question. How long since you tried reboarding your yak in deep water? Have you EVER done it on purpose or by necessity? Have you spent ANY time at all practicing your basic safety procedures? Could you do it in rough seas?

Seems that the two dead kayakers couldn't do that either....


----------



## wopfish

Davey

I'm not sure how well anyone would cope in that short period wind swell that was whipped up in PBB............ maybe swimming was an option too late........ not so sure if you could train for that kind of situation - a better measure is prevention.

Dont venture out in the firstplace or get rescued in the worst case............ looked like a suicide swim to me in those conditions.

But yes in general I hear you have a valid point - you may need to self rescue via swimming. I'm not sure though that most on here determin their fishing trip on how far they can swim.

I would think that my range in the yak would be limited to my swimming range - and if I couldnt swim that far I'd be making sure that all my other safety back ups would be available and functioning.


----------



## emufingers

Davey you are right. I am overweight and have had a shoulder reconstruction. Like you I am out of breath after 100 metres plus the shoulder is starting to ache. I practiced re boarding my yak regularly and was quite successful. I live in an area with fast changing weather, strong offshore winds in summer and a water temperature of 16-18 degrees offshore in summer and down to 13 degrees in winter. It is not sensible for me to ignore all of this. In addition I live in an area where GWS frequent.

When I announced I was giving up kayaking in open waters, I was greeted with cries of shame , shame, c'mon be brave. In another forum I was personally attacked as some abnormal freak. I may be a bit of a scaredy cat, but I would rather be that way than being found on a beach after suffering a heart attack and or hypothermia.

I am not making any recommendations about kayak safety for others. I know the time has come for me to recognise my limitations. I hope others will make realistic assessments and not be bullied out of decisions to retire by those who are threatened by such actions and opinions.


----------



## gonetroppo

I can swim, but i need a breather after every 25m :lol: Seriously, im pretty hopeless but here is my contingency plan, the kayak is my life line so i need to stay with it at all costs, it has the epirb, the boyancy, water, flippers/mask and all my ods and ends. I attach myself to it most of the time (ie if its windy) and *always* when the sail is up. Without it all I have is the PDF and a knife. I figure that ive got time to have a good swim for it being pretty warm waters around here.

I remember watching a 'i shouldnt be alive' or similar show where a plane had to ditch in the water. One of the group (from memory a reasonably fit 21yo) decided he would swim for it to try and get help for the others. He had flippers on and it took him 12hrs to swim the 10km to shore, through the night, part of the journey in a storm, over a shallow reef, and through a school of jellys. That was a really mean feat. 
To top it off when he made it to shore in the early hours of the morning he went to a group of fisherman for help alerting the authorites, they didnt belive the story and thought he came off a drug boat, so didnt take him in until morning, all the while his friends were still bobbing along 10km out to sea.

One big thing for the southern yakkers (and northern) I think is the cold, you dont have long once your wet. Anyone have measures against this?


----------



## bazzoo

Yes Davey , i hear you mate , i am now unfortunately very unfit [ first time in my life ], and thats why i dont go out in open water anymore , and keep my fishing to the narrower rivers and creeks , which , realistically kayaks were designed for . I still swim a few times a week , just for my back . But it comes down to this , if you are not experianced in the water and not used to rough water , DONT GO OUT . You should be in a situation so that if you fall off your kayak , you are comfortable and RELAXED in the water and feel you are in an enviroment that your quite comfortable with so can keep a clear head and above all not panic


----------



## Zed

I've said it before and I'll say it again:
A day of just plain surf riding is first fun and second damn useful. The aerobics are up 100fold (guess) compared to a regular paddle about, and you will get dumped off your yak, necessitating a swim to retrieve the yak, and a wet reentry. It makes a lot of sense. My group here actually make specific plans to go out and "play". You'll get a good feel for your yak in swells, plus the above mentioned benefits, and laugh your ass off in the process, which is also good for you.


----------



## keza

Swimming.
I thought I was an ok swimmer if a little out of practice, so I started going along with my wife and her friend on her weekly ocean swims.
I was wrong. The last 12 months have been miserable with me swimming in the ocean nearly every week of the year. It has taken that long for me to feel competent in the ocean.
A couple of weeks ago I got my wife to drop me off at Gordons bay and pick me up from Whylies baths south coogee. As I got to the cliffs past Gordons the wind whipped up and it was all white caps, my first thought was to turn back or head for the beach but then I decided that these were real conditions and I would hardly lose the kayak on a calm day. 
I swam past wedding cake island and over to the baths. The sea had picked up and the waves break breaking on the rocks so I thought I should swim back to the beach but again thought, I need to be able to get out on the rocks, so I got close waited and waited for the right wave to sweep me over the ledge and then cling on to the top.
My swim friends thought I was crazy but this was such a good thing for me to do, for my confidence and to gauge distance when looking back to land. It looked way further than I thought I could do but I new on google earth it was only about 1.5ks.
The down side is that I was wearing goggles and I wouldn't have goggles on if I came off the yak. Now I need to try swimming without goggles.

Re-entry.
I was lucky enough to get the full test at south west rocks when SBD and I decided to test the sails in 20 to 30 knt winds.
I went over at full tip and got flung from the kayak.
Normally I roll the kayak away from myself to right it but in a strong wind I found you have to roll it towards yourself and make sure you grab the sail and keep it down as the kayak rolls over.
The sail works like a sea anchor underwater and stops the yak blowing away in the wind but you need move the yak forward as you roll it over to start the sail collapsing.
This all sounds like a lengthy process but I think I was back on the yak in less than a minute (SWR is a bit sharky so that focuses your mind). 
The yak was fully rigged for fishing and all I lost was a drink bottle and hat. The rods stayed in the holders and I had no trouble with all my tether lines.

Sorry if this has all been a bit boring but maybe something in there is useful.


----------



## wopfish

Nice one Kerry - thats a serious commitment to a swim - we now Know why the kingfish have gone of the chew round WCI !


----------



## keza

wopfish said:


> Nice one Kerry - thats a serious commitment to a swim - we now Know why the kingfish have gone of the chew round WCI !


When I went over the shallow area inside the Bombie a metre plus kingie looked me right in the eye.
Do you think we have been fishing the wrong area all these years ?


----------



## wopfish

WOW - you mean round the back on the shallow bouldery side ? Thats a good swim mate - I bet you had a bit of confidence knowing that area reasonably well !

I have the utmost respect the surfers pre leash days - those Hawaiin boys - surfing Sunset Beach with no leg rope - they did a lot of swimming in those days.... ultimate watermen.... were all just pussies !!!


----------



## wopfish

were all just pussies !!!

Except for Keza ~


----------



## keza

No, inside the bombie the surfer surf on the south side of gordons.


----------



## Davey G

wopfish said:


> I'm not sure how well anyone would cope in that short period wind swell that was whipped up in PBB............ maybe swimming was an option too late........ not so sure if you could train for that kind of situation - a better measure is prevention.


Absolutely agree, and I understand that 90% of us wouldn't be out in extreme/rough weather anyway, but I still reckon the vast majority of kayak fishos would struggle to get back to shore or to a fast drifting kayak even in calm conditions.

Keza, you're in training for the over 50's triathlon aren't you?


----------



## keza

Davey G said:


> Keza, you're in training for the over 50's triathlon aren't you?


  I turn 50 next year and yes I'm thinking I should be doing a triathlon in my 50th year.


----------



## ArWeTherYet

Yes

I can also right my kayak in a surf zone and get back on (well I can usually do this a few times before I'm knacked and have to swim in), cause I did 3 kayak training coarses.

I can also use my mobile phone while its in its water proof pouch and attached to my PFD.

You should stick to your capabilities, if not accept that you may die........which I dont have a problem with. Much better to die kayaking than by a nasty bit of Botulism from nezevic salami :shock: .


----------



## wetbeaver

i can say i was very competative in sports and I conquered big hights, but if one thing that does scare the absolute banger's out of me, is 
the ocean. i swear its after me, but i love it. more so for fishing.

i loved it when i lived and did nipper's at yamba and my old man worked on the traulers. but had a bad incident and have never recovered.
davey i understand as im nowhere near the sports person i use to be, but like whopfish said, prevention is better then cure.

my mates mates, about 10 year ago, 4 grown men went out threw the north and south heads in sydney in a tinny in rough stormy conditions, and never returned.
what was going through there heads. no one knows, but very keen fisherman they were, keen to the point they couldnt think rational and let comin sence prevail


----------



## wopfish

or to a fast drifting kayak even in calm conditions.

Yeah I hear you on this one - I learned the hard way on my first trip off shore after loosing my paddle and having to fish for it !! It was teathered from day two......... although I'm not always holding it - so if the yak did flip over it could be gone in a few gusts !!!! And Ive seen then flip repeatedly when its gusty.........

I do think our pursuit is risky to a degree and perhaps the amount of peeps now involved in it could possibly give people a false sense of security by the numbers involved.......... you really need to be able to think as a safe unit first up as in "I" - I can rescue myself or I can contact some one to rescue me - and then hook up with some one who thinks the same way. Two kayaks with one in trouble can be a handful to self rescue.......


----------



## Ironbar

I'm not a good swimmer, I would be lost offshore if I was separated from the kayak.

Only option would be to try and keep my head above the water and activate the PLB and pray for someone to pick me up as quick as possible.

EPIRB and or PLB are must haves to go offshore, anyone going without is playing with his life.


----------



## Davey G

Ironbar said:


> I'm not a good swimmer, I would be lost offshore if I was separated from the kayak. Only option would be to try and keep my head above the water and activate the PLB and pray for someone to pick me up as quick as possible.


Then I hope you never consider going offshore. Ever.



Ironbar said:


> EPIRB and or PLB are must haves to go offshore, anyone going without is playing with his life.


Again, if you can swim well, you're going to negate the need for electronic aids. Learn to swim, learn to self rescue and learn to read the conditions It's not that difficult.


----------



## Barrabundy

Last year I jumped off a waterfall at Crystal Creek north of Townsville and can remember being almost paralysed by the cold water. I thought to myself "so this is what they mean about cold water being a killer"......and that's in the tropics!


----------



## Ironbar

Davey G said:


> Ironbar said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a good swimmer, I would be lost offshore if I was separated from the kayak. Only option would be to try and keep my head above the water and activate the PLB and pray for someone to pick me up as quick as possible.
> 
> 
> 
> Then I hope you never consider going offshore. Ever.
> 
> 
> 
> Ironbar said:
> 
> 
> 
> EPIRB and or PLB are must haves to go offshore, anyone going without is playing with his life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, if you can swim well, you're going to negate the need for electronic aids. Learn to swim, learn to self rescue and learn to read the conditions It's not that difficult.
Click to expand...

_Again, if you can swim well, you're going to negate the need for electronic aids._

you don't get it Davey.

Being a good swimmer helps a lot but it may not be enough to save your life.
What I was trying to say was If you get *separated* from your yak offshore it is most likely in rough conditions and swimming back to shore may not be an option, no matter how good a swimmer you are because of the conditions and distance. I'm talking of being about 2km offshore, also in my earlier post. You be long dead before you reach the shore because of panicking, exhaustion, hypothermia etc. The only thing that will save your life is a emergency beacon or a VHF radio.

And I'm saying it again, anyone that goes offshore without an emergency aid is a bloody idiot.

How many people you reckon are on this forum that go fishing offshore but are not able to swim back in case they are separated from their kayak? How many are honest enough to admit it?

What about yourself?

_learn to self rescue and learn to read the conditions _

I did self rescue over and over again in the Noosa River but never offshore. It worked well in the river but offshore is a different story. for everyone.

Read the conditions is easy: If in doubt don't go out. There is always a better day coming up, simply as that.


----------



## dru

I entirely understand the passion here but I'm with Ironbar. I have commented previously about the difference in attitude and approach between SLSF trained people and sea kayak trained people. The attitude of never paddle out further than you can swim is definitely consistent with the surf life saver thinking. They also take differing approaches to PFD - because a PFD can be a hinderance to a swim. I get Keza's big swim, now try it with a PFD. So is the solution to remove the PFD? Sooner or later conditions can be beyond tolerance so the PFD is needed. But it also means the swim theory starts falling apart. (unless you adjust to never paddle further out than you can swim in a PFD).

What about kayaks 50km out at sea? I understand that in kayak MIA incidents the kayak itself is usually found. Intact. The kayak can take a much bigger punishment that the human can on it's own in the water. The sea kayak approach is :
x never leave the kayak
x self resuce (cross rescue training required for a group)
x rolling (for SOT this would be re-entry) - note that wet re-entry can fail in big conditions so these guys train to re-enter upside down then roll up. 
x technical training in paddle strokes - effectively adds stability

This is not a case of one is right and the other is wrong. Both approaches are didactic. I am entirely comfortable paddling out further than I am likely to be able to swim in conditions that I am happy to paddle in.

The first step is to check conditions and weather predictions and dont enter what you cant handle (though Murphies Law says this isnt enough on its own). The final step is communications - Mobile/Radio/PLB preferably with integrated GPS.

Now if we are saying that unfit, poor paddlers, in conditions beyond their ability further than they can swim, without a reentry techniques that is workable in the conditions... let's call it for the stupidity that it is. I'd hope there aren't too many who meet this criteria on the forum.

I might also add that this incident also belies the common misnomer that you are safe if you are with a buddy. This works to a limited extent but ultimately it comes down to the training and ability of each of the individuals.


----------



## Grunt

I can swim pretty well and like others I have been on the water in various sports for most of my life. Funny thing is if I take out my Sit on, PFD is mandatory as at anytime I could tire and most often I could be alone. If I am in the race kayak the PFD is not that compulsory, being that most races I am surrounded by support, also it is awfully hard to pull yourself into a race kayak with a PFD on.

First thing I did learn in the Horizon Flyer was how to get back in and practiced roll outs and getting back in.


----------



## Zed

> Botulism from nezevic salami


Low blow. Neutral corner. Standing 8. Warning.


> Now if we are saying that unfit, poor paddlers, in conditions beyond their ability further than they can swim, without a reentry techniques that is workable in the conditions... let's call it for the stupidity that it is. I'd hope there aren't too many who meet this criteria on the forum.


A lot can be gained from experience. Again, I've been lucky to have it, and I choose my yak buddies that have it.

As a young Sea Scout we would take w/e sails (Columbia 43) out to Catalina Island, and do drills on the way back. One of the drills was MOB drills. We'd take turns jumping overboard with pfd, while the rest of the crew came about to haul you out of the water under sail. Granted in this day and age, parents wouldn't be too keen to hear about junior being dumped overboard in the middle of the channel. But I learned the calm, float, kick technique in 15-20kt winds, as the only boat for miles sailed away. Calm is always the operative word, whether I was on crew or in the water. Calm only comes from experience. I wouldn't have the capabilities or confidence I have today w/o those freaky experiences.

I can't stress enough to go out and push your limits in the surf with your yak. It is as rough and yet controlled setting you're going to find without putting yourself in undue danger off shore. Learning to swim should be requisite, IMO.


----------



## andybear

Oh crap!

Looks like I am doomed to be Darwin fodder.

With my limitations, I wear my PFD whenever on the water, have Marine VHF radio, flares and EPIRB. If weather ever catches me out and turns to crap, I will tie myself to the yak too.

Cheers all andybear :shock:

Edit: to answer the actual question, yes....but not very well at all.


----------



## cobrat

I am 39 yo, fitter now than I have been for the last ten years, in order to keep up with two young boys. I got my bronze medallion when I was 15 yo, but I haven't swum any real distance since then. All my fitness is land based apart from paddling. So... I don't know how I would go in an emergency situation. The tragic events at PPB and this thread have got me thinking. Be more prepared. Test my swimming and improve it.


----------



## dru

andybear said:


> Edit: to answer the actual question, yes....but not very well at all.


Suppose I should answer it too. My current training programme is meant to be 2-3 6k paddles during the week, 20k paddle on sat and sun, 3 gym sessions per week which includes a 1k swim.

But to be honest with work and weather I'm about half that for the last 3weeks. :?


----------



## kayakone

Yes, Davey, I can, but in yak clothing and a PFD? 
In rough water, or worse cold water?
Maybe not, or not very far. Hey, and I'm a good swimmer, and fairly fit.

This is one of the many reasons we ran a safety day recently.... 
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=50502&hilit=SE+Qld%3A+Safety+Day
The facts are this; Above about 12 knots, if you're off your yak and on the windward side, you've lost it. You're swimming (or not - aka flotsam).

So not too many of us I suspect. As Brad (indiedog) has suggested in the PPB thread, let's do something now that will hopefully better arm all of us and any future yakkers in all the safety scenarios/drills. Such a document could become the 'bible', (covering also reading weather and essential kit (e.g. how many carry a spare paddle?)).

Thanks Davey for a timely wakeup call.

Trevor


----------



## goanywhere

The most important issue here is planning. I study the weather charts and reports before going out. If it looks like alot of wind is looming I plan what to do if the wind is earlier or stronger than predicted. I have been caught in a strong on-shore wind trying to paddle to get to shore 300m away and almost failed, and I was IN my yak. Scary! Now I plan my trips much more carefully.


----------



## Junglefisher

I'm not a particularly strong swimmer and I will continue to yak.
I'm also not a trained racing car driver, but I will continue to drive my car.
I'm not survival trained but will continue to go for walks in the bush.
Do I need to go on?
Yes, not being able to swim 1km+ probably increases my risks when kayaking. I'm still going to do it though - I'm happy with my risks.
I have however practised deep water re-entry. I did it on my first day of owning my Revo and have done it several times since. Not doing that is just crazy. My Finn there's no way I can get back in without beaching it first. Damn, I should just give this game up now before I die.
This thread pops up every now and then and I know there are people here who feel very strongly about it. People who hate it that others who aren't as well trained as them go kayak fishing - mostly as they feel it will lead to extra regulation of the sport. Me? I just worry about me. I'm happy where I am.


----------



## gonfission

I've been bagged a few times on here and other places because I tether myself to my yak. I'm still gonna do it unless in glassout conditions. My yak cannot sink. I know this for a fact: I made it that way. 14 of the 19 kgs of it are wood. It wallows on the surface full of water. Since then I've added almost 20kgs worth of positive floatation. In fact I'm still adding it as I find it/make more room inside the hatches. I carry a cheap $2.00 boxcutter on the front of my pfd in the event of a tangle. Soon as I read a few of these posts I decided a pair of flippers are gonna find there way on the yak with me.
Yeah as a kid I swam a bit like most. I'd really struggle now to swim with a pfd on and that's in reasonable water conditions.
Nothing drives home the need for safety as much as a tragedy. The next time any of us gets on the water we will be that bit more aware. let's hope we're that bit wiser.
Cheers John.


----------



## kayakjack

All of these posts have suddenly made me realise that I do not have the ability to be a safe kayaker in anything other than smooth waters, in reasonable close proximity to land. I cannot paddle very well, especially in windy conditions, but I do have a Minn Kota electric.
Yes I always wear a PFD and. SPOT satellite tracker..........maybe my tired 60 year old carcass is getting past it now . I think I will stick with freshwater fishing on inland dams and streams

Cheers,

Jack 
Rockhampton, Qld


----------



## billpatt

It's a good question. I can swim but add in the fact your wearing clothes, and a washy 1-2m swell with white caps and it would make it difficult, you only have to swallow a couple of mouthfuls of water and you can pass out.

I always wear a PFD so I would just concentrate on floating and let the current take me where it pleased, with a bit of luck you would get picked up within 12 hours later in emergency.


----------



## wetbeaver

goanywhere said:


> The most important issue here is planning. I study the weather charts and reports before going out. If it looks like alot of wind is looming I plan what to do if the wind is earlier or stronger than predicted. I have been caught in a strong on-shore wind trying to paddle to get to shore 300m away and almost failed, and I was IN my yak. Scary! Now I plan my trips much more carefully.


I understand what your saying, a couple of months ago i was paddling the nepean river in the guage area where its 150m high cliff edges. I didnt 
really pay attention to paddling with the wind but coming back i got court, and couldnt paddle against the wind as it was turning me back around. I had to paddle backwards to the other side where it was a slight wind breaker. And even if i tiped, i couldnt climb the banks as they were pritty much virtical. after that i went out to my local tackle shop, and brought a keep things dry container, so just in case i still have my phone.

as i have found out you dont have to be in the deap blue sea to have a bad sinario

fishing the nepean and met up with a couple of guys that court a wild pig, one other fello was saying how he almost dround because he crossed a area thinking it was firm and fell in. the river was raging because of all the rain we just had. this guy had long pants runner's and a back pack on. he said the back pack saved his life, as it kept him afloat, he got to the bank and tryed climbing and it calapsed and fell back in. he said that happened a couple of times then he had to just swim down further to where there was flat ground.
he said what saved him was he didnt panic and rode the currents and worked towards the bank. he was also intoxicated. maybe it was pure luck


----------



## Davey G

Ironbar said:


> you don't get it Davey.
> 
> Being a good swimmer helps a lot but it may not be enough to save your life.
> What I was trying to say was If you get *separated* from your yak offshore it is most likely in rough conditions and swimming back to shore may not be an option, no matter how good a swimmer you are because of the conditions and distance. I'm talking of being about 2km offshore, also in my earlier post. You be long dead before you reach the shore because of panicking, exhaustion, hypothermia etc. The only thing that will save your life is a emergency beacon or a VHF radio.
> .


All fair enough points, and I totally agree.

My point re swimming was that you should be competent enough to AT LEAST swim after your kayak if you become seperated and it starts floating away in the wind. I'm happy to go several km out to sea in my kayak but theres no way I could swim that far comfortably - but I know if I tip over that I can swim well enough to get back to my yak and re-board safely.

And even if you are a calmwater fisho - if you fall out of your yak you should be able to swim a reasonable distance and be able to safely reboard your yak. Unfortunately I reckon a high % of AKFF members haven't even tested themselves on these basic minimum standards, so this thread is designed to (1) Create some more awareness and (2) Stimulate some action amongst this segment of our membership.

Summers here - so now's the time to get down to your local lake, bay or beach and practice roling out of and getting back onto your yak. And if you have surf nearby, pick a calm uncrowded break and have a play. As Zed says, its great fun and you'll learn more in half an hour than you ever thought possible. And if you want to b rush up on your swimming technique and fitness, that wouldn't hurt either.

be prepared and have fun, that's what it's all about.


----------



## BIGKEV

Don't forget guys, in addition to Davey's notes above when swimming back to your yak you will most likely have your paddle in hand also making it a real bitch to swim effectively.

Give it try folks, I'm certain you will scare the bejesus out of yourself trying to swim clothed (wear what you would wear fishing), wearing a pfd and holding your 7+ foot long paddle with one hand. It's not fun, but it is necessary, because you need to experience this and be confident with this situation before it becomes life threatening.

Kev


----------



## dru

Davey G said:


> My point re swimming was that you should be competent enough to AT LEAST swim after your kayak if you become seperated and it starts floating away in the wind. I'm happy to go several km out to sea in my kayak but theres no way I could swim that far comfortably - but I know if I tip over that I can swim well enough to get back to my yak and re-board safely.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes to all the above. BUT (there is almost always a but in safety) if the wind is up over 12-15kn and you fall to the windward, with or without the pfd few of us will be successful swimming down the yak. (note it is the same if you loose your paddle, hence a previous comment regarding do you have a spare paddle). If you have an aware (preferably trained) buddy he should be able to chase it down for you. Tether works too, but personnally I like a paddle tether and I train my safety drills to hang on to the tether. If Im caught with a surf exit, Id like to be able to get rid of the tether if it all goes pear shaped. Also communication system if you dont catch the yak (does your waterproofed mobile have a pre-dial to the local marine rescue?)
> 
> In terms of Big Gees experience, there is another safety process to talk through. A focus on getting back to your car/launch point, if the conditions have exceeded personnal ability, could be fatal. Just like swimmers caught in a rip a plan B is advisable. Can you get to safety somewhere else? An alternative exit point. Dont fight the wind but run with it back to a safer landing. When you check google earth before fishing, also take note of what might be an alterntive safe exit for the predicted wind conditions.
> 
> I like B plans.
Click to expand...


----------



## Ironbar

Davey G said:


> My point re swimming was that you should be competent enough to AT LEAST swim after your kayak if you become seperated and it starts floating away in the wind. I'm happy to go several km out to sea in my kayak but theres no way I could swim that far comfortably - but I know if I tip over that I can swim well enough to get back to my yak and re-board safely.


No worries Davey, I agree with you that everyone should be competent enough to at least swim after his or her kayak.
Also, if you can swim well enough to get back on your kayak safely I've got no problem with that, that should keep you out of trouble anyway.


----------



## Ironbar

indiedog said:


> What if you've hooked a fish and stowed the paddle? What if you don't hold on to it when you go overboard?


I was thinking about that scenario a while ago.

So, what are you going to do if this happens?


----------



## ArWeTherYet

dru said:


> personnally I like a paddle tether and I train my safety drills to hang on to the tether.


Always tether a split paddle to the right side (left if your left handed)......they do come apart.

Do a safety coarse or 2 with a qualified instructor. That will give you the confidence needed to save yourself if things turn to shit.

It worked for me.


----------



## Breambo

I'm a good swimmer and even though Im unfit at the moment I could swim all day. The last few months in Thailand I was swimming a mile in the pool every day sometimes 2 if I wasnt hungover, mixed with the odd ocean swim, and now at home slackened off doing 2 x 800m in the ocean at least every 2nd day. Im going to pick the pace up a bit now to get some condition for summer.
I cant comprehend what would make a poor swimmer go kayaking in rough conditions, or out to sea, its not logical.


----------



## kayakone

Ironbar said:


> Davey G said:
> 
> 
> 
> My point re swimming was that you should be competent enough to AT LEAST swim after your kayak if you become seperated and it starts floating away in the wind. I'm happy to go several km out to sea in my kayak but theres no way I could swim that far comfortably - but I know if I tip over that I can swim well enough to get back to my yak and re-board safely.
> 
> 
> 
> No worries Davey, I agree with you that everyone should be competent enough to at least swim after his or her kayak.
> Also, if you can swim well enough to get back on your kayak safely I've got no problem with that, that should keep you out of trouble anyway.
Click to expand...

Three problems guys:

Firstly, the results of trying swimming in your yak clothing and a PFD will shock many. You may be dismayed how little distance you can cover, and how fatiguing it is.

Secondly, now try the same exercise with your yak a few metres away...in a light wind, say 7 knots. Then repeat the exercise in 10 -12 knots (which many of us, whether offshore, inshore or lake, feel comfortable with being out in). Reality is you may find that your kayak is moving away from you faster than you can swim. Above about 13 knots forget it, you're a swimmer, or you're flotsam. SOTs (even more so than SIKs) are very subject to wind and will drift away faster than you can swim, even if your name is Klim or Thorpe. All this should first be tried in a controlled situation where expert rescue is immediately avialable.

Thirdly, even if you get your yak, you maybe dismayed to find that there are few _reliably_ strong things to hold onto, such as the decklines fitted to sea kayaks. There is a handle front and rear, but.... this point was made recently by the instructor at our safety day held recently. Then there's the re-entry (know how to right it? well practised in both rear and side re-entries? fit enough? what have you lost that wasn't tethered? what sort of yak have you now got...referring to water ingress)

'Nuff said. The good thing is we are now thinking about this stuff.

Trevor


----------



## ArWeTherYet

indiedog said:


> Not necessarily......................................... .


And how many times have you fallen out of your kayak in full kit in open waters in poor conditions?......

I have and I wouldn't want to be tethered to my kayak. The more crap you have the harder it is. All the ropes and fishing lines get tangled around you......make sure you have a rope cutting knife attached to your PDF. Use a type 2 PFd cause you dont want to be thinking whether to pull the cord on your inflatable and a tightly fitted PFD is easy enough to swim in.......especially after you have completed a training course and have become comfortable doing so.

Again do a course and practice in the surf zone. Know what your in for and you can save your self.


----------



## Ironbar

kayakone said:


> Three problems guys:
> 
> Firstly, the results of trying swimming in your yak clothing and a PFD will shock many. You may be dismayed how little distance you can cover, and how fatiguing it is.
> 
> Secondly, now try the same exercise with your yak a few metres away...in a light wind, say 7 knots. Then repeat the exercise in 10 -12 knots (which many of us, whether offshore, inshore or lake, feel comfortable with being out in. Reality is you may find that your kayak is moving away from you faster than you can swim. Above about 13 knots forget it, you're a swimmer, or you're flotsam. SOTs (even more so than SIKs) are very subject to wind and will drift away faster than you can swim, even if your name is Klim or Thorpe. All this should first be tried in a controlled situation where expert rescue is immediately avialable.
> 
> Trevor


Exactly right regarding swimming in clothing and pfd and also some people wear diving boots or other shoes to protect their feet. They go full of water and drag your feet down.

_Reality is you may find that your kayak is moving away from you faster than you can swim. _

I know that experience and it's not a pleasent one. It happened to me once on the Noosa River and I got separated from the yak because the wind and tide were moving it away from me faster than I could swim with the PFD. Luckily a family in a tinny were nearby and grabbed hold of the kayak. It was a sobering and also very embarrassing experience.


----------



## Davey G

agree re the paddle tether - I never go out without my paddle clipped to my yak, via a length of thin elastic bungee cord. This serves 2 purposes - I never lose my paddle and can simply chuck it over the side when fighting a fish and it also acts a drogue when/if I fall out and the yak starts blowing away. If I do fall out I normally hang onto my paddle (can't get out of this habit from my whitewater paddling days).

the only time I'd remove it is when in the surf zone. leashes attached to 30kg lumps of out of control plastic in the surf aren't a good idea.

As others have said - this thread is not designed to point the finger at anyone , it's just a timely reminder about how to do whatever you can to keep yourself safe out there on the water. If it helps one of us do that then its all good. 8)


----------



## wopfish

I too teather my leash and have always done so since loosing it on my first tip off shore................

Bit concerned when fishing and going over then... at least the leash can slow down the rate of speed of a drifting yak

this is all good soul searching..

It make sense to think about prior to launching all those in built measures of what would happen IF.......

Swimming for home is going to be a last resort.... but it may be neccessary and it could save you,

having a phone on you thats waterpoofed.... or another way of calling up help......

A whistle.......

Floatation !!!! Staying close to the yak..........if being rescued.

Making the rescue call earlier rather than later - a small misshap could turn into a disaster.......

Again my first idiot trip offshore I couldnt get through the heads to port stephens - the rip was pulling me back out - I didnt know to stay close to the rocks - I was fearfull............. I knew I was in trouble........ but I was getting tired and contemplated on paddling round to the beach and try and land on a wedge beach break...........

But saw my chance with a stink boater coming through and flagged him down - he kindly gave me a tow through the worst bit...

WHAT A FOOL I WAS............... IT COULD HAVE GONE PEAR SHAPED FOR ME THEN.........

IVE LEARNT SO MUCH FORM THIS WEB SITE....... HOW TO BE SAFE AND HAVE THE COMMITMENT OF OTHER YAKKERS TO FISH WITH ME.

Lesson to be learned - fish safe - fellow brothers and sisters ! The ocean is a cruel mistress..............


----------



## kayakone

Davey G said:


> agree re the paddle tether - I never go out without my paddle clipped to my yak, via a length of thin elastic bungee cord. This serves 2 purposes - I never lose my paddle and can simply chuck it over the side when fighting a fish and it also acts a drogue when/if I fall out and the yak starts blowing away. If I do fall out I normally hang onto my paddle (can't get out of this habit from my whitewater paddling days).
> 
> the only time I'd remove it is when in the surf zone. leashes attached to 30kg lumps of out of control plastic in the surf aren't a good idea.
> 
> As others have said - this thread is not designed to point the finger at anyone , it's just a timely reminder about how to do whatever you can to keep yourself safe out there on the water. If it helps one of us do that then its all good. 8)


Paddle leashes: On our safety day the instructor pointed out how flimsy and inadequate many are on fishing yaks, for three reasons. 
1. If you ever drop it (maybe fighting a fish or whatever) it must be able to take all forces, say under the yak on the windward side, and acting as a drogue. If 15 knots and you're side on there is a lot of pressure on the leash and it's attachment point. If they break, you are up the creek without...
2. If you are off and holding onto the paddle, and the yak is subject to wind, you are the drogue and there are far greater forces on it than in 1 above, especially if windy. Try this on land...load your yak say with a friend on the grass, then pull on the paddle leash till something gives (both should have eye protection). You may find something gives at low load pressure. If so then you don't have a yak, and you're left holding a paddle, which is doubly hard to swim with. Or try the real thing in wind with you overboard if you're confident it is up to the job.
3. The leash should be easily disconnectible if say neck/limb entaglement occurs (maybe better than cutting it as you may need it again soon).

Trevor


----------



## wopfish

Paddle leashes: On our safety day the instructor pointed out how flimsy and inadequate many are on fishing yaks, for three reasons.

Use a boogie board leash / teather - very strong...............

With a quick release velcro stap - the leash slides as the velcro strap is loose on the handle but the velcro connection is tight - the leash has a coil that absorbs some pressure.

Yes with enough pressure its going to snap and that could have consequences ( but they have a rope section that might counter the recoil ) - I wear eye wear ( could have lost that though )

I have an emergency one handed quick release safety knife attached to my pfd on my front at the shoulder should I need to cut stuff away......

Would way prefer a leash that not have one - way more likely to loose my paddle in day to day yakking - if its an emergency situation then the leash could have issues - but hopefully the emergency situation itself hasnt been brought on by loosing my paddle !! In that case I wouldnt have to worry about it then !

So I disagree with the instructor and thats from my own experience - what is his suggestion then ?? was this instructor a kayak fisherman ???? what alternative does he suggest ????


----------



## ArWeTherYet

indiedog said:


> I've been kayaking for a long time and am quite comfortable in rough conditions and with my ability to read the weather etc.


And I'm sure if you were caught out you'd know what to do and get your self out of trouble.......but I'm not sure advising tethering to a kayak such a good idea. Maybe it is??? I'm not qualified to judge, but a few that I know who are, advise against it and from my personal experience I would not like to. Dont know if relying on certain devises just gives you a false sense of security.

The worst thing is when you first hit the water, it shocks you, its scary, but you need to think quickly and clearly and not panic. Thats a lot easier if you have trained for it.

But dont listen to me, I'm no expert. Listen to Trev and Dru.........and do a safety coarse. Most kayak clubs run them and some kayak shops have qualified instructors.


----------



## wopfish

Not a fan of a direct teather to the yak - man attached to yak.


----------



## Davey G

indiedog said:


> Another point I've made to others in the past is that most guys on here are fishermen first (and ladies) and kayakers second.


Yeah good point and I think the ratio has definitely increased in recent years with the explosion of 'off the shelf' kayak fishing package , whereas 5 years ago the guys who were fishing from kayaks were generally kayakers who also happened to also like fishing.

I'm a paddler first and fisherman second I wear rash top and board shorts when paddling, same gear I wear while surfing or stand up paddleboarding or waterskiing. that gear also makes it pretty easy to swim in, as opposed to the type of fishing clothes I'd reserve for boat or land based fishing..


----------



## wopfish

YUP I'm in the same attire - ready to swim just in case...... also do the double and have a cheeky surf after a fish.... agh the perfect day.......


----------



## dru

ArWeTherYet said:


> indiedog said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been kayaking for a long time and am quite comfortable in rough conditions and with my ability to read the weather etc.
> 
> 
> 
> And I'm sure if you were caught out you'd know what to do and get your self out of trouble.......but I'm not sure advising tethering to a kayak such a good idea. Maybe it is??? I'm not qualified to judge, but a few that I know who are, advise against it and from my personal experience I would not like to. Dont know if relying on certain devises just gives you a false sense of security.
> 
> The worst thing is when you first hit the water, it shocks you, its scary, but you need to think quickly and clearly and not panic. Thats a lot easier if you have trained for it.
> 
> But dont listen to me, I'm no expert. Listen to Trev and Dru.........and do a safety coarse. Most kayak clubs run them and some kayak shops have qualified instructors.
Click to expand...

err, Id add that I am in training, not that I am a trainer. Big difference. Liked your note on tether to two piece paddles, hadnt thought of that. In terms of _stuff_ attached to yourself, I like it simple too. I do have a front pouch in my pfd that holds scissors, pliers, reading glasses, camera, and plb. And I have been unexpectedly caught on a remount. Easily sorted in the conditions I was in, but not perhaps in bigger weather. There's always something that needs improving.


----------



## ArWeTherYet

Edit.....dont listen to Dru either, and sometimes I have my doubts on Trev. Best see someone who is qualified to give instructions.


----------



## kayakone

wopfish said:


> Paddle leashes: On our safety day the instructor pointed out how flimsy and inadequate many are on fishing yaks, for three reasons.
> 
> Use a boogie board leash / tether - very strong...............
> 
> With a quick release velcro stap - the leash slides as the velcro strap is loose on the handle but the velcro connection is tight - the leash has a coil that absorbs some pressure.
> 
> Yes with enough pressure its going to snap and that could have consequences ( but they have a rope section that might counter the recoil ) - I wear eye wear ( could have lost that though )
> 
> I have an emergency one handed quick release safety knife attached to my pfd on my front at the shoulder should I need to cut stuff away......
> 
> Would way prefer a leash that not have one - way more likely to loose my paddle in day to day yakking - if its an emergency situation then the leash could have issues - but hopefully the emergency situation itself hasnt been brought on by loosing my paddle !! In that case I wouldnt have to worry about it then !
> 
> So I disagree with the instructor and thats from my own experience - what is his suggestion then ?? was this instructor a kayak fisherman ???? what alternative does he suggest ????


"Paddle leashes: On our safety day the instructor pointed out how flimsy and inadequate many are on fishing yaks, for three reasons. "

Some fishing yaks have standard attachment points that yakkers use to attach the leash. Some yakkers add their own attachment point, or just clip the leash into some bungy (factory fitted light bungy, in one example on the day). Regardless the attachment point must be able to take _all forces that it could be subjected to in a difficult or emergency_ (even some of the factory made ones are inadequate). Next time it is 15 knots, let your paddle go on the downwind side and see how much force is on it when it surfaces on the windward side (incidentally recovering the paddle from this situation could lead to a capsize). Then try 20 knots, cause that's a real situation when you are going to be relying on it to not break. 
Or. as I said earlier, fall off and try in holding your paddle while your yak is being blown away and/or hit by whitecaps. If you really want to do the acid test repeat in small to medium surf. Some leashes will break somewhere, especially with a heavy SOT.

This was the instructor's point, and he was referring to the entire leash, as some commercial leash manufacturers use plastic components that UV degrade, or even new are not strong enough to hold a person in the water and a 40 kg SOT being pounded by wind and waves. Fine for a boogie board/surfboard maybe (but I've seen some of these break too). The instructor's suggestion is: *it must never snap in the above conditions, cause that's when your life may depend on it.* This is why I suggested testing it.

"I have an emergency one handed quick release safety knife attached to my pfd on my front at the shoulder should I need to cut stuff away......"
Very good idea for everyone to take up.

" was this instructor a kayak fisherman ????" Yes, part time, but safe paddler first.

"what alternative does he suggest ????" Simple...unbreakable leash and attachments. The quick release he uses is a 30 mm diameter loop of 5mm bungy on the paddle end of his leash. It loops over a 40mm plastic knob, and in an entanglement situation can be released one handed. I will get the exact details from the instructor and post them here.

Hope this answers all questions.

Cheers

Trevor


----------



## dru

ArWeTherYet said:


> Edit.....dont listen to Dru either, and sometimes I have my doubts on Trev. Best see someone who is qualified to give instructions.


x2.


----------



## kayakone

dru said:


> ArWeTherYet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Edit.....dont listen to Dru either, and sometimes I have my doubts on Trev. Best see someone who is qualified to give instructions.
> 
> 
> 
> x2.
Click to expand...

I did. I'm not qualified. Not sure why Paul has doubts about me. Could it be the occasional lapse into insanity, or the number of NDEs that I seem to have had? :lol:

Details: Gary Forrest: http://www.queenslandseakayakinstruction.com.au/ Phone 0429 876 955.

What about a series of safety days on the Sunshine coast, Scarby again, and Gold Coast? We'd need numbers of interested people. I can guarantee one thing...*all would learn heaps that may one day save your life*. Also suggesting others organize something elsewhere.

Trevor


----------



## kayakjack

Thinking about my swimming ability.......it was pretty good, 40 years ago. Given I am now 60 I have lost a noticeable amount of upper body strength which means my swimming stamina won't even go close to making the grade. Yes, I consider myself reasonable fit, hiked all over Lord Howe Island 6 months ago, but my legs alone are not gong to save me in an off shore or even estuary kayak incident when I take an unscheduled bath. As I said, this whole thread has been my wakeup call and I just need to pursue kayaking knowing my personal limitations, and at my age I am happy with that 

Jack
Rockhampton Qld


----------



## wopfish

OK surfed in howling on shore swell - 3-4 foot or 6-8 from bottom of the pit to the top of the peak - surf was shit so I decided to swim around with the board dragging behind me..

result i'm not a great swimmer but a confident one.. sounds weird well not really - enjoyed the tumbling and bashing - submerged and swam under neath the swell even though the board itself was a weight dragging behind me....

but all good... got punished and smashed - didnt swim far but didnt feel totally threatened.... ocean swell swimming is a skill in itself. Confidence is something earnt......


----------



## bazzoo

I really think the thing that we should strive for is being comfortable in the water and never never Panic , if you get tipped , its best to take your time gather your thoughts and get organized to remount . And unless that kayak sinks , stay with the boat


----------



## simonsrat

I recon my swimming skills would be minimal in an emergency. I used to swim heaps as a kid but that was a long time ago, I think I am reasonably fit but I have not used swimming muscles for ages. I really do not like the idea of drowning, or being in a situation where I had to contemplate it. So what have I done that I think will keep me safe?

I keep close to land. The distance does increase in calmer conditions. However I will follow the shore even if there is a more direct route in conditions I do not feel comfortable in.

I have gone to land in unfavourable conditions and had to stay there until I felt safe to get to the car. I have also gone to land and dragged my kayak along the shore to get back to the car. I have no problem with getting onto the closest piece of ground and staying there. I can always call someone to come and find me.

I will not go out in conditions that I do not like the look of. I have intentional fished twice in conditions that I should not have gone out in, once I flipped the yak, the other time I was almost convinced I was going to sink the Ultimate Propel, with waves coming over the front of the kayak and into the hull. Both these times were during fishing comps where the need to compete clouded my judgement. After the last one I will not let comps or mates influence my call to not go out.

I have an EPIRB. Even though I do not travel huge distances away from land I would rather have it. I tie it to me when I start to feel uncomfortable.

Do not get a false sense of security when fishing in a dam. Some of the nastiest weather and water conditions changes I have seen have happened in dams and very quickly. The wind gets channelled through the valley and can quickly make for some really sloppy conditions. Some of the dams are like being off shore for distance of land when you get into the middle of them. A place like Wivenhoe is a huge piece of water.

Also do not underestimate tide and wind combined as other said this can make getting back to your launch spot almost impossible. Me and my mate had a 500m paddle in the canoe which took us about 1 1/2 hours to get back. We could not land and drag the yak as the tide was still running in and the mangroves and mud made that option impossible so we decided to keep on paddling. Not a dangerous situation as we could have easily anchored or run to shore but a real eye opener about the strength of wind and current combined.

There have been some great ideas here to keep safe. I will be implementing some of them so I can be around a bit longer..

Cheers,

Steven


----------



## paulo

Wanted to thank you for this thread DaveyG. It struck a chord with me when you first posted a few weeks back. It woke me from the dream where I believed I was fit enough to do anything.

When I actually sat down and examined what I thought I did in a week, I realised that over the past six months all bar one of my regular exercise efforts had actually disappeared.

Whilst I still belt out 20kms, 2 mornings a week on the river in a scull, I had actually stopped riding to work for almost 12 months and due to work commitments, rarely kayaking on the weekend. Even when I got out, more often than not my pampered ass was under sail for the majority of the time.

A quick check of the scales revealed Id pudged up a further 6kgs over the past six months and working from home and regularly spending 12-18hrs a day in front of a puter, I wasnt even walking to the bus. No wonder my once loose fitting clothing was working harder than ever!

First thing I did was start riding to work. It only takes 30 mins and I feel better for it about 10m after leaving the front gate. The hardest part is not accepting the multitude of challenges from other riders and sticking to the plan. Im pleased to say after three weeks I powered up the one mofo hill on the way home in 2nd gear today. First ride saw me crawl up it in 1st, with the biggest battle being the mental one to keep going and not get off half way up and walk. Ill have a crack at 3rd gear next week.

Whilst fitness is good, the big question was how far can I swim. Ive had grannys pass me on the pushbike when Ive won a race at a rowing regatta the week before. There is no better way to be competent at something than to do it regularly and train the necessary muscles. I havent done a lap in a pool for 20 years. If I was truthful, it would be almost five years since Ive had more than one surf a year and the muscles needed to swim are not the same as the ones I use to row.

Spending most of my time on the AI, I figured the most likely scenario would see me falling off under full sail with the sheet line locked off. The boat will eventually turn up wind and stall but how far that is could be any distance on a given day. If there is any current running, Ive got a fairly small window to make it back to the yak and climb on board. The other possibility is I fall off in the heavily trafficked freighter channel up this way and need to get out of the way of a tanker bearing down on me. This means I need to be able to sprint up to 500m, maybe more.

My first lunchtime pool swim saw me stop for a rest after 100m. Though I stopped every 50m thereafter, I managed 650m in the 30 minutes and whilst reasonably pleased with my first up effort, realised I couldn't make it back to my yak if I fell off. Today I sprinted non stop for 175m and managed 800m in the 30 minutes. 500m is months off but the small gains in the last few weeks and the start of pelagic season is providing sufficient carrot to keep hitting myself with the stick.

Yesterday I got on my partner's rowing machine and did a 20min ergo. Ive avoided it for the past five years and regularly kick it as I walk past if she's not looking. They are one of the most evil exercise machines ever invented. I hate it with a passion. Specially the way it keeps telling you you're bludging in a multitude of units. Twenty minutes and 4kms later and Im actually starting to like the damn thing.

Someone else discounted the notion of relying on your safety gear to survive. Ive always seen that as plan B and am anal about charging and preparation of that stuff as well as the fishing kit. Unfortunately over the past 6-12 months that had unknowingly become plan A for me.

On in-the-water safety kit, Ive added a dive sausage to my pfd kit. They cost $10 and make y0u a metre taller when in the water. Might be enough to save you getting that prop tattoo in heavily trafficked areas.

IN all the years Ive kayak fished Ive never picked up a paddle. In full AI mode its split in two and lives in the front hatch as Plan C should the wind die and the pedals fail me. Though I carry all the necessary parts and tools to fix a mirage drive on the water, if I was truthful with myself, my propulsion plans stop at Plan B. Perhaps paddle muscles are the next ones I should start training.

So thanks again for the slap around the head. Hopefully Im not the only one whose ears are ringing.


----------



## Barrabundy

Yesterday reinforced the fact that swimming in a planned and controlled environment (pool) is quite different to an emergency environment.

Another thing I learnt was that, in an emergency situation, I would succumb to caffeine withdrawal way before dehydration and starvation.....caffeine withdrawal is BAD!


----------



## kayakone

Barrabundy said:


> Yesterday reinforced the fact that swimming in a planned and controlled environment (pool) is quite different to an emergency environment.
> 
> Another thing I learnt was that, in an emergency situation, I would succumb to caffeine withdrawal way before dehydration and starvation.....caffeine withdrawal is BAD!


And the answer is Con?.....

Add caffeine to your survival kit.


----------



## bnsyak

I've surfed since I was in aqua diapers.
havn't done any huge distances in a while, but i did surf the newcastle weather bomb a couple of days after it hit.
I always wear my PFD (law in NSW for over 100m from shore), my watch incorporates a tide clock aswell. 
It comes down to sence (its not common!!!), don't fight the current, and a thousand dollar rod or a box of lures isn't worth a hairy situation


----------



## eagle4031

Barrabundy said:


> Yesterday reinforced the fact that swimming in a planned and controlled environment (pool) is quite different to an emergency environment.
> 
> Another thing I learnt was that, in an emergency situation, I would succumb to caffeine withdrawal way before dehydration and starvation.....caffeine withdrawal is BAD!


put coffee in your camelback :?


----------

