# Hobie Revo - sail & outriggers v1.0 - updated!



## kayakone

Mingleman sails solo around......something.

Great fun - no stopping you now. And cheaper than an AI?

Trevor


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## john316

Mingle, when you have the outriggers sorted and you are crossing the wind, haul the sail in close and you will get rid of the sail flutter and it will also give you a real kick in the back as the thing surges forward. If the outriggers aren't strong enough to take the sideways strain you might get wet though. It is a whole lot of fun when you get the nack of sailing.

have fun with it

John


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## bildad

Watching with interest, increasing distance to fishing spots and saving the legs. One tip on sailing, if you have your Mirage drive fins straight up and down it will help you sail up wind much better.


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## DavidA

Please keep us posted on the progress. I reckon there would be quite a few interested people watching this. Can you post photo(s) of the attachment of the crossbars to the revo, please?

cheers

David


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## john316

Mingle, always interesting when someone is trying out new stuff. hope your getting a kick out of both the experimenting and the sailing...

cheers

John


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## kayakone

Mingle

Looks like you're enjoying the sailing. It's addictive.

A couple of questions. 
Were the Hobie sidekicks not suitable? For what reasons?
Could you get a glassing guy to extend them to say 1m length for even more support bouyancy (though this could introduce loadings the Revo was not designed to take)?

Trevor


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## bildad

Great stuff Mingle, I reckon your the King of DIY! 
If you want to sail closer to the wind, ie point the nose higher up wind and limit that side ways movement you will need to make a centre board-dagger board that would fit throught the mirage slot, however that would mean another accessory taking up valuable space, unless you were going sailing only, in which case you would might as well get a sailing boat, lol.
But I think what you have done is highly practical for fishing, extending your range.
Might I ask how much you have spent on this setup,?
Something like a Master Card Ad.
2 outriggers $100
Sail another $200
blah blah blah
3 cartons of piss thinking it through $100
for everyhting else there's mastercard.
Luv your work 8)


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## GMansfish

Mingle nice rig, looks the goods. Good onya. I am curious on the sail and mast what size is it? Looks like the AI sail or is it smaller? If you could let us know as I am thinking of smaller sail for Polynesian set up on the AI.


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## kayakone

bildad said:


> If you want to sail closer to the wind, ie point the nose higher up wind and limit that side ways movement you will need to make a centre board-dagger board that would fit throught the mirage slot....


Maybe not necessarily. I believe Trimaran outer hulls or some types of Cat hulls are assymetric shape. I can't be sure, but I think the outer edge of the downwind hull/outrigger is flatter sided than the inside, and this creates more resistance against side drift, and improves upwind capabilities without the need for (or with less reliance upon) a leeboard/centreboard. Someone said something about this on the forum some time ago, or was I dreaming?

Calling sailing AKFFers...are you awake?

Probably not. God bless my soul, it's after 1 am. I should be dreamin'.

It's good night from me.

Trevor


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## FiftyCal

This thread is relevant to my interests.

I plan to stick a sail and outriggers onto my Revo, but I may hold off and look into these Finn outriggers


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## GMansfish

Mingle, cheers shall look into that sail as would probably suit slower sailing, on the mid day NE.


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## john316

Mingle, the dagger board idea may be well suited to a sailing boat but I would recomend NO... The AI has a dagger board but it also has a moulded slot for it so that you can still use the pedals. If you centre the pedals your mirage will give you an effective dagger board anyway and you will still need the pedals as well as the sail. Trimarans are harder to get across the wind when you are tacking and I always pedal across the tack until I pick up the wind again. This is not having a go at bildad as the idea is sound, but from experience on the AI you will need the mirage more than the centre board. I often sail without the dagger board in as it becomes more necessary as the wind gets stronger but that also tends to negate the conditions for fishing...

cheers

John


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## bildad

john316 said:


> Mingle, the dagger board idea may be well suited to a sailing boat but I would recomend NO... The AI has a dagger board but it also has a moulded slot for it so that you can still use the pedals. If you centre the pedals your mirage will give you an effective dagger board anyway and you will still need the pedals as well as the sail.


De Ja Vu, didn't I just say that? lol


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## mattmoki

Hi Mingle & all - really interesting read. I like the look of those outriggers. But seeing as you're the bass player in spinal tap, did you not think of using a couple of outsized cucumbers wrapped in tinfoil? 

anyhow, I have the hobie sail on my revo. Love it! I've made the same roller-furler that you have but have been sailing without outriggers so far.

For a sailing dinghy the Revo is an excellent kayak! But nevertheless, it's amazing that it sails into the wind as well as it does, but that is due to the mirrage-drive emulating a bit of a centre-board (plus the sailing rudder too of course). It goes really well on a broad reach. I have recently upgraded from the standard fins to the STs and can notice a distinct improvement . I'm guessing the Turbos wold act even better as a centreboard but I'm not sure i can be bothered. and of course the sailing rudder is a must-have. The standard rudder is mostly out of the water when the yak has any sort of heel (lean) on it when tacking (going into the wind).

without the assistance of the mirage drive it's basically impossible to go completely about (turn with the wind going across the bow) but it's easy enough to gybe (turn with the wind going across the stern). I have put the boat about under sail on a couple of occasions but it slows down so much its not worth it. peddling through the turn is much better.

The trick with Gybing is to control it nicely by yanking the mainsheet just before the wind gets behind the sail. then duck! the sail flips over to the other side with a satisfying thwack! 

When I'm sailing into the wind it's most effective to keep the boat as flat as possible, so I lean to windward, and keep working the mainsheet to keep the sail in shape - and let the sheet out to de-power the sail when the wind gusts. the revo is BLOODY TIPPY .. so it's a really good idea to stay awake! keeping the boat flat when tacking reduces the leeway .. where the boat slips sideways as well as moving forward. the leeway effect is less on a reach or broad reach and there's none when you're running downwind.

I like the way you've added fittings to help with the furling line and mainsheet - I'll have to get onto that. I have got a couple of blocks that i run the mainsheet through but so far no other tweaks.

My theory is that the sail is a good value-add to use on the way back from a trip. It pays to rig the mainsheet before setting out but keep the mast & sail rigged but clippled to the side of that yak. i fished with the mast up once and it was a mistake .. for obvious reasons.. pity it wasn't obvious to me at the time!

It's easy enough to drop the mast & furled sail if the wind gets too much - I have had to do that a couple of times - again just clip it to the side as if it is a paddle. 
one thing i wonder - what is the optimum distance for the outriggers to be from the hull? the further away the higher the force where the outrigger crossbars attach to the revo, and the more turning force any drag would have. any comments about that anyone?

and speaking of drag, I pedal slightly when sailing - this overcomes the friction of the hull in the water and seems to maximise converting the lift of the sail into forward motion .. the technique is the opposite of shallow water pedaling .. that is, the pedals are centered and I make very short pedaling movements to keep the fins as vertical as possible.

anyway, thanks again - I'm off to the finn website now to check 'em out! cheers Matt


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## mattmoki

looking forward to the video tour.

I can sail, and you can make things! looks like we could learn stuff from each other!

Your roller furler sounds way more sophisticated than mine - i made this one 





sounds like your one is schmicker and easier to use.. is it like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_stDzQJ ... ure=g-vrec

sorry about any sailing jargon, it's easy enough to google for the definitions :?

you've inspired me to pull my finger out and finish setting up various cleats & blocks on my revo!


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## Skipjack

Looking Good Mingle...Looking forward ti seeing video of the outriggers...

Skip


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## mattmoki

good idea for the mainsheet jam cleat - I agree re no moving parts.. I might put one inboard though bcse I'd like to keep the gunwales smooth bcse I transport the yak upside down.

due to circs beyond control etc etc .. I haven't sailed my revo or fitted the various bits & peices .. but will do so early in jan and post some pix for you.

I keep returning to this post and am now seriously tempted to get these outriggers!

all the best for Xmas , cheers Matt


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## mattmoki

yeah - I take your point - and of course the brackets for the outrigger bars are fitted to the gunwales, so there goes that idea ;-)

yep, I do tend to do mock ups - everyone is different and have preferences for different set-ups.

eg the block & cleat for my furler sheet would be inside the hull - I have found that I need to guide the furler line up from a downwards angle to stop the mast bungee loop thing getting wound up in it when letting the sail out.. but I reckon I'll have a crack at making one of your schmicker versions .. which may suit different layout again. that's why I'm not drilling too many holes at this stage - just try to take advantage of all the exisitng fittings as much as possible..

can't wait to get Xmas distracrion out of the way so I can focus on the really important stuff again .. bah humbug ;-)

cheers!


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## fisher

A very basic question here chaps - are outriggers an essential item for sailing a revo? cheers


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## mattmoki

Hi Fisher - I sail my Revo without outriggers around Hobart, which is not the most tropical city in Oz. I am highly motivated to avoid immersion - so far I have mostly managed..

Under sail the Revo is very tippy compared to a sailing dingy .. and they are tippy enough! So it's a matter of staying alert, keeping yr eye out for gusts, and being able to quickly let the sail out if you need to.

I'm keen to get outriggers, but have managed ok without them so far - it's about risk management I guess. I take the sail down as soon as the whitecaps start..and in any even, after a certain point, the wind is too strong for the Hobie mast anyway (around 15-20 knots I think? anyone reading got firm stats?)

There's a range of outrigger options as well as the hobie inflatable ones .(for the Revo) . Mingle's set-up looks to be the best I have seen to date.

One thing I'm trying to figure out is how to calculate the optimum distance from the hull to the outrigger - any ideas on that out there?

anyway - hope y'all have a great NYE weekend, and best wishes for 2012!  cheers Matt


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## kayakone

mattmoki said:


> One thing I'm trying to figure out is how to calculate the optimum distance from the hull to the outrigger - any ideas on that out there?
> 
> cheers Matt


Dont' know about "optimum", cause I'm not a sailor, but have recently bought an AI.....it's very stable. In the research I did I learnt that mono hulls with outriggers (trimaran configuration) are usually well under square, i.e. the hull length exceeds the total width. I don't know why, but I'm sure lots of sailing type people must know why this is so, and the pros and cons of the various combos as you get wider and wider.

Over to the sailors.....

Cheers

Trevor


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## mattmoki

Hi Mingle - i posted pix of my sail & furler rigging in the kayak Sailing forum..
cheers Matt
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=52233


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## mattmoki

Hi Mingle - I made the same observation (in reverse) on your roller-furler post!

no, the bungee clipping the mast down gives me a sense of security, and it keeps the sail luff tensioned - as the sail is boomless it does loose shape when the on a reach or a run .. so keeping the luff tensioned would reduce this effect.

The bungee only tangles with the furler when the sail is being pulled out .. but if it's unfurled quick enough and the furling line is held low then the bungee spins around above the furling line.

I never have to furl the sail in tthat much of a hurry that I can't pop forward and slip the bungee off the pin! If the issue is that the wind has become too strong, temporarily letting the sail flap is fine - and actually has less wind-resistance than it being furled. I would then go forward, pop the bungee, furl the sail, tie the mainsheet so it stays tightly furled, then take the furled mast & sail down and clip it to the side of the revo and pedal/paddle from there) leaving the mainsheet still threaded through the blocks. a furled sail will be affected by a decent wind and make pedalling/paddling more difficult.

I also tie the mainsheet to directly to the sail for maximum feel & control .. I wouldn't have the bungee between the mainsheet and the sail -- a bit like using braid rather than stretchy mono, is how I see it.. if that makes sense?

Had a play round with some more blocks and slightly different configuration last night - although the sheet running through the two standard pad-eyes near the seat is smooth/frictionless enough (actually works really well) .. I notice it rubs on the hull in 3 spots .. and over time might wear away on the plastic .. so I might have the mainsheet running up the gunwhale to a block forward past the pocket (just behind the scotty flush-mount fittings) and returning back to the seat - easier to pull the sheet that way as well. I'll just have to be mindfull of the rudder cables underneath. looks like I'll be putting stuff on the gunwhales after all! ;-)

OK, I'm gonna call Finn & In2Kayaks now ..


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## MajorClod

Great thread here - some helpful stuff.

I've personally just purchased an Adventure Island, and my girlfriend has a Revo 11.

We're looking at getting a sailing kit for the Revo, contemplating the Sidekick Amas - but it is a decent amount of money for some inflatable balloons.

I'm really considering the longer Finn outriggers and converting her Revo into a mini-Adventure Island of sorts.

Measuring up the longer outriggers (approx 2.1m length from the Finn Website - couldn't see the 1.5m ones mentioned here?) they are roughly in the same proportion to the Revo 11 as my Adventure Island amas are to the adventure hull.

Concerned they may be a bit big for the revo 11, however pictures of them show them to be quite narrow - so not sure it'd be a huge issue.

Purpose is 100% for sailing, not fishing.

It's been a few months since the last update - how are you finding the smaller outriggers? And would you still go with that size if you were to do it again - or would you look at the larger ones?

Thanks for all the great info!


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## kayakone

MajorClod,

I suggest you look at Mingle's mods.

Trevor


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## MajorClod

Thanks for the reply mate.

Would you be able to tell me what the bolt spacing is on the blue Finn mounts? (the ones that bolt into the hull)

I've been told they are 40mm centre to centre - would just like to confirm from someone who owns a set.

Considering a purchase of a sidekick ama set today for some long weekend sailing fun on my girlfriends revo, with the above plans to upgrade to a more permanent Finn setup later. If the spacing is the same then I can do this without redrilling holes, otherwise i might just leave it until I can sort out delivery of some Finn ones.

Thanks!


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## MajorClod

Thanks mate, those numbers are what I've been told.


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## Squidley

Awesome work Mingle, you've inspired me to put a sail kit on the shopping list (Coffin Bay will be sooo much fun this way). I was wondering, how did you get nuts inside the hull underneath the cross bar mounting blocks? Not decided on Finns or Sidekicks yet but either way I'm not confident about using well nuts.


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## beanneil

I am also in the process of making outriggers for my yak. Can you tell me what is the distance between the yak and the stabilisers ? Does making them closer or further away from the yak make any difference ? Also did you find if they "twist " . I am about to post my pics of my work in progress in the other DIY mods section. Thanks.


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## poppyd

http://www.thundertiger.com/product/3025/1.html

I was thinking about trying these. I want to make up a set of outriggers for the outback just for the hell of it. ;-)


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