# Tethering



## labrat

In his thread about learning from the weekend (Main Forum) Artie mentions that he normally tethers everything. Others seem to do this too and with the amount of rods, nets, pliers tackle boxes etc etc some people must have a lot of strings attached.

Personally I've moved away from tethering everything as my paddle and rods leashes always seemed to tangle with each other and it bothered me what might happen if arms and legs got caught up with them in a capsize. My situation is different from most yak fishers in that I use a sit in and this means less storage space, therefore less gear. It also means that if I go over then I need to actively get out - I won't just fall off. I'm quite comfortable with the set up at present except that I don't even have my paddle leashed so it is always in mind that it must be kept track of no matter what.

So, for those with lots of tethered gear is there a way to avoid the tangles or does it just not happen? There must be some of you with SOTs that are loaded with heaps of stuff that have capsized and survived but have any of you had a problem with entanglement?


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## Marty75

I've never capsized (unintentionally) but tether my gear just in case. I carry a safety knife strapped to my pfd for purely the entanglement factor.

Marty


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## GlenelgKiller

I only tether rods and paddle. Other accesories like knife and pliers i have attached floats to (like the ones boaties attach keys to). Sure they could float off but if im that inattentive i deserve to lose them! I also have a safety knife attached to the pfd just in case.


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## Ado

I tether Rods, brag mat and spare water to rear bungy.
Floating pliers, knife and modified net.
Camera in a dry bag (floats) around my neck with PLB.
Whistle and knife tethered to PFD.
Phone in dry bag in PFD with power bars.
Water in a bladder in the back of my PDF.
No paddle leash (I can chase my paddle with mirage drive).
All else safe below deck.

I'm considering tethering myself to the yak if offshore.


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## Guest

Ado said:


> I'm considering tethering myself to the yak if offshore.


Should only need to do that if its windy.
I teather my rods all the time and paddle most the time. Last weekend the theathers saved my rods. I only ever have 2 rod on the deck at once and everything esle is in the hull.


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## Ado

nad97 said:


> Should only need to do that if its windy.


Agreed. That's what I had in mind.


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## dru

Day hatch holds phone, flares, spare lures and tackle, paddle float, bait. No tethers.

Lashed to the deck, or at least stowed under deck bungies, spare paddle, gaff, lip grips, water bottles.

Rods are locked in, in a Scotty triple system. This is not ideal because if I go turtle I'd like an easy route back up. Deck mount rod holders would be better, then the rods would need tethers.

Tether to my primary paddle. On my SIK, that's the only tether. On my SOT add in tethers to the rods.

So on my SIK, one tether only, my paddle.


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## Scott

I have often thought of tethering myself to the yak when in adverse conditions instead of just tethering the paddle and hoping i remember to hang on to it. In my ignorance i can't really see how a surfboard style leg rope could get you in too much trouble when tethered to the front of the yak.


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## anselmo

Ado said:


> nad97 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Should only need to do that if its windy.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed. That's what I had in mind.
Click to expand...

Define "windy" ...


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## Ado

anselmo said:


> Ado said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nad97 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Should only need to do that if its windy.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed. That's what I had in mind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Define "windy" ...
Click to expand...

If your kayak can be blown away faster than you can swim.


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## anselmo

Ado said:


> anselmo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ado said:
> 
> 
> 
> "quote="nad97" Should only need to do that if its windy."
> 
> Agreed. That's what I had in mind.
> 
> 
> 
> Define "windy" ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If your kayak can be blown away faster than you can swim.
Click to expand...

so pretty much every day?


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## Ado

Pretty much every day outside. Pretty much no days on the lakes.
It's when the risk of not being tethered outweighs the risk of getting tangled up in the tether.


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## anselmo

Ado said:


> Pretty much every day outside.


Sorry Ado, yes that's what I meant


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## burnsie8495

i agree, keep your work space clear and you'll have no dramas, another bonus your not gunna snag your self on a nice set of trebles 
Personaly i keep most my gear in the hull as found the amount of leashes just got in the way, so keep your gear organised and leash anything up top that you dont want to lose.
Leash it or lose it!


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## kayakone

Tether everything.

If you are entangled after a capsize...

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?hl=en&s ... 1,s:0,i:76

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?hl=en&s ... 3,s:0,i:82

Fingers will not go in, so it all must get better from here on.

trev


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## Scott

By everything Trev, do you mean yourself? If so is a leg rope the to the bow the best method?


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## Junglefisher

I tether nothing.
I'm happier that way.
I've lost two rods in the past, one was tethered but the tether broke. The other was completely my fault.
I do lose pliers, bragmats etc. on a regular basis but I don't know if I drop them over the side or forget them when packing up or even drop them out of the car.


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## kayakone

Scott said:


> By everything Trev, do you mean yourself? If so is a leg rope the to the bow the best method?


I haven't Scott, because that can bring it's own problems, as well as the solution to losing your yak. One thing about a tether to the yakker is that it has to be: 
1. Tied to the yakker where it cannot injure him/her (e.g. drown them while being towed, _and_ not disabling the yakker while being towed e.g. (attached to an AI/TI while it is still motoring under sai.).
2. It must be very strong - far stronger than a rod or paddle leash, and this means in the event of entanglement, much harder to cut. I recommend a safety knife on everyone's PFD.

e.g. http://www.safe4work.com.au/Products/10 ... 09137.aspx

Obviously on an AI the risk of the yak leaving you is much higher. I found that leaving the rudder alone for while (simulating a man overboard scenario) that it does eventually turn up into wind. Problem is
1 I jam the rudder with a piece of bungy, 
2. and even if it rounds up, it is still probably going to blow away from you faster than you can swim (in moderate to strong winds). :shock: .... which would not be pretty if you are halfway to Flinders or Moreton Islands.

trev


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## burnsie8495

kayakone said:


> Scott said:
> 
> 
> 
> By everything Trev, do you mean yourself? If so is a leg rope the to the bow the best method?
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't Scott, because that can bring it's own problems, as well as the solution to losing your yak. One thing about a tether to the yakker is that it has to be:
> 1. Tied to the yakker where it cannot injure him/her (e.g. drown them while being towed).
> 2. It must be very strong - far stronger than a rod or paddle leash, and this means in the event of entanglement, much harder to cut. I recommend a safety knife on anyone's PFD.
> 
> trev
Click to expand...

Surf board leg rope proves its self pretty well and easier enough the cut through if you cant release it from the velcro strap.


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## Guest

I have broken a leg rope tethered to my paddle in the surf. I hung on for dear life to the paddle, expecting the kayak to pull me along. Nope. The kayak took off and the tether parted with a bang.


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## burnsie8495

nezevic said:


> I have broken a leg rope tethered to my paddle in the surf. I hung on for dear life to the paddle, expecting the kayak to pull me along. Nope. The kayak took off and the tether parted with a bang.


Shit, there goes that idea :/ 
Maybe two :lol:


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## Zonbie

I too am interested in advice on personal tethering.

I found this link on the 'web.

http://shop.feathercraft.com/collections/safety/products/personal-tether

What is the local opinion on personal tethering, and also on this gadget?

Regards, Steve


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## kayakone

burnsie8495 said:


> Surf board leg rope proves its self pretty well and easier enough the cut through if you cant release it from the velcro strap.





nezevic said:


> I have broken a leg rope tethered to my paddle in the surf. I hung on for dear life to the paddle, expecting the kayak to pull me along. Nope. The kayak took off and the tether parted with a bang.


Correct. In nezevic's case the surfboard leg rope is acting as a person leash. This is a common result when yakkers are knocked off in surf....having been pounded once, it is natural to reach for the paddle ("a drowning man will reach for a straw"). Shock loads of up to 30 + kgs (estimating) occur. On recent SE Qld Safety Days, the instructor pointed out that many leashes have components that fail when given a test simulating actual shock loads. It could also be the attachment fitting on the yak....he showed us several that looked like they weren't up to scratch.

*The point is*: If you use a leash for anything, _ensure it will take far more than the maximum loads it could be subjected to_, otherwise you'll be in for a shock, and the loss of a rod, paddle, yak, or your life (not necessarily in order of importance :shock: ). Allow for UV degradation in the life of all components of the leash and its attachment point on the yak. The shock loads in surf on a paddle or, far greater again, a person, are MASSIVE.

Get serious, and test your leashes (it would be interesting to see actual readings of the loads imposed - 'Choice' magazine challenge, or PhD for a surfer?). Maybe use a spring balance to see the results (would need an observer, and both would need eye protection at least).

Example on rod leashes: I use 4 mm bungy. I have tried fairly hard to break it, but cannot, and am therefore satisfied it will take a pounding in surf. There is strength in the give of bungy (they are however, quite long, and a little housekeeping is required). Someone may have a better solution.

trev


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## ArWeTherYet

Zonbie said:


> I too am interested in advice on personal tethering.
> 
> I found this link on the 'web.
> 
> http://shop.feathercraft.com/collections/safety/products/personal-tether
> 
> What is the local opinion on personal tethering, and also on this gadget?
> 
> Regards, Steve


Dont ever tether your self to a kayak, its dangerous.

Do a safety course with a certified instructor and learn how to save yourself if you get knocked off, or at least practice yourself re entering a kayak. People who tend to want to tether themselves to a kayak are usually the same people who have never done a kayak safety coarse.

Use a paddle leash which will give you the option of letting go of the paddle if you need to........and there are plenty of circumstance where you wouldnt want to be attached to the kayak, like being run over by a boat, or being hit by a rouge wave next rocks etc.


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## Ado

I don't hold a paddle AWTY. I have a pedal yak, so that doesn't work for me.
I would never consider tethering on launch or landing.
But if I'm not tethered and it's blowing 15 knots, how do I stay in contact with my kayak if I go over?
I have never tethered myself in the past due to the risks. But there are significant risks on not tethering too.


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## anselmo

Ado said:


> I don't hold a paddle AWTY. I have a pedal yak, so that doesn't work for me.
> I would never consider tethering on launch or landing.
> But if I'm not tethered and it's blowing 15 knots, how do I stay in contact with my kayak if I go over?
> I have never tethered myself in the past due to the risks. But there are significant risks on not tethering too.


Doesn't even need to be 15 knots
Once the biggest weight is removed from a yak (our collective fat asses) they sit higher in the water and are affected by wind a LOT easier, even when upside down
even a slight breeze can have the yak disappearing from your swimming range pretty quickly


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## ArWeTherYet

You do a kayak safety coarse with a qualified instructor and learn to be competent in self rescue.

You can theorize scenarios as much as you want, but until you put it into practice, you wont have a true idea what will happen.


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## anselmo

ArWeTherYet said:


> You do a kayak safety coarse with a qualified instructor and learn to be competent in self rescue.
> 
> You can theorize scenarios as much as you want, but until you put it into practice, you wont have a true idea what will happen.


Self rescue only works when you can reach your kayak after falling in

If your kayak is 100m away (doesn't sound like much but try it in deep water), your troubles are only just beginning


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## keza

I have a thin tether behind my seat that I would put on if I was off shore and the wind came up.
The barracuda flies across the water with a wind and I would have no chance of chasing it.
Some one on here put up a post with a home made tether, it was a piece of conduit with the cord jamed inside and a clip on each end, if you went over the cord would pull out.


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## dru

ArWeTherYet said:


> You do a kayak safety coarse with a qualified instructor and learn to be competent in self rescue.
> 
> You can theorize scenarios as much as you want, but until you put it into practice, you wont have a true idea what will happen.


Strangely enough, there is a Safety course coming soon in Sydney. All are welcome.

AWTY, I'm looking forward to talking to the instructor about this. Being dragged in surf is one thing, being dragged in breaking crest wind waves is another. Of course its all dangerous. ButI wonder if a personal tether is such a bad thing? For me, and a SIK based paddler, my primary PFD is my kayak. And I'm locked in with the spray skirt. It's the best form of flotation I think. To stay stuck to the boat. Yes SOTs are different, but in dicey conditions, I'd want to be with the yak.

K1 you don't like the sound of this either? I'm thinking a thigh tether might have a use?

Not at all saying I'm right here guys, just wondering...


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## Guest

I don't tether myself. Maybe i should, cos there's no way i'd be able to swim fast enough to get back to the yak if it was blowing away. But if you are going to tether yourself, be sure to make it long enough so that if needs be, you can swim away from the yak to get yourself sorted before attempting to remount in a treacherous situation.


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## kayakone

dru said:


> ArWeTherYet said:
> 
> 
> 
> You do a kayak safety coarse with a qualified instructor and learn to be competent in self rescue.
> 
> You can theorize scenarios as much as you want, but until you put it into practice, you wont have a true idea what will happen.
> 
> 
> 
> Strangely enough, there is a Safety course coming soon in Sydney. All are welcome.
> 
> AWTY, I'm looking forward to talking to the instructor about this. Being dragged in surf is one thing, being dragged in breaking crest wind waves is another. Of course its all dangerous. But I wonder if a personal tether is such a bad thing? For me, and a SIK based paddler, my primary PFD is my kayak. And I'm locked in with the spray skirt. It's the best form of flotation I think. To stay stuck to the boat. Yes SOTs are different, but in dicey conditions, I'd want to be with the yak.
> 
> K1 you don't like the sound of this either? I'm thinking a thigh tether might have a use?
> 
> Not at all saying I'm right here guys, just wondering...
Click to expand...

Dru

Rob Mercer will have an opinion, and one certainly worth listening to. I have never tried it, and am with you in that a SIK is your tether (PFD), provided you can roll in any conditions (but see the thread re a top level Sydney sea-kayaker who couldn't roll for the first time ever - I couldn't find it).

"K1 you don't like the sound of this either? I'm thinking a thigh tether might have a use? (quote Dru)." 
Not sure Dru. A thigh tether will not hurt you, but how capable are you of manual skills if being dragged by your thigh (particularl in an AI situation at speed).

"Yes SOTs are different, but in dicey conditions, I'd want to be with the yak. (quote Dru)" Agreed. But few SOT's in standard form have deck lines, and so the incentive to add them to SOT's (user added).

Interesting debate.

trev


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## cheaterparts

ArWeTherYet said:


> Dont ever tether your self to a kayak, its dangerous.
> 
> Do a safety course with a certified instructor and learn how to save yourself if you get knocked off, or at least practice yourself re entering a kayak. People who tend to want to tether themselves to a kayak are usually the same people who have never done a kayak safety coarse.
> 
> Use a paddle leash which will give you the option of letting go of the paddle if you need to........and there are plenty of circumstance where you wouldnt want to be attached to the kayak, like being run over by a boat, or being hit by a rouge wave next rocks etc.


there are times when I wouldn't and wont tether myself to the yak - however it already has been said the first thing you need to do to re enter your yak is to catch it - that could be a problem due to wind or tide flow 
the first time I fell off my yak was at anchor ( I was lucky I grabed the yak before being swept away with the tide ) it was at night so the nav light was under water , the yak being upside down and the tide would have been flowing about 4 kph
and no I didn't have the paddle in hand it was cliped to the side of the yak out of harms way while I fished
after that I can tell you if swept away it would be only a very short time before you lost sight of a kayak with the light under water
and try to swim against that sort of tide flow dressed for night fishing
I now use a surfers leg rope attached to my wrist only at night in the dark and yes its a pain at times but if I take another dip in the dark 
I wont get seperated from the yak - the kayak is easy enough to put up the right way and get back on if you have it near you


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## Junglefisher

OK, only reason I can see for the kayak getting away from you is if you are knocked out. If you are knocked out, do you really want to be tethered to something that might be headed offshore fast? What if the reason you capsized is because your yak is sinking?
If you don't have a paddle in your hands, grab a yak handle as you go over. Grab a rod that is tethered.
Sure, if you let your yak get 100m away, you aren't going to catch it but why would you do that in the first place?


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## burnsie8495

Then again if the current is taking your yak that quickly theres a fair chance you will be heading the same way, personaly id rather be tethered so i wouldnt have to hold a handle/ paddle as it flips over with gear flying. For a sinking yak (usualy) you will have time to undo a tether, surfers leg ropes are just velcro. But each to their own, it just comes to down on how your fishing and what your comfortable doing.


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## ArWeTherYet

dru said:


> Strangely enough, there is a Safety course coming soon in Sydney. All are welcome...


Thats brilliant Drew I hope you get a big turn out.

I'm a minimalist when it comes to safety, but believe doing a safety coarse is where you should start at. Its not just learning how to get back on again these coarse cover many aspects on managing yourself and your kayak while out in the water.

I'm not very smart or brave, did 3 coarses, 2 of which involved surf and multiple re entries till it all sunk in and when it came to a real life situation of getting knocked off while fishing I was able, after the initial shock of being in the cold water, get back on and get to safety.

I dont see the logic of someone who is obviously anxious about falling off a kayak rather spend some money on a untested device, than spend a few hours and a similar amount of money on doing a coarse :? .

Do the coarse, talk to the instructor about it, if you still want use one, then do so and go out in similar conditions to what it would take to come off and roll over and test it a few times. If you still prefer to be tethered then go for it. I'd have all the respect in the world for your decision.

I tether my paddle to the kayak when its windy, I've come off enough to know that I wont let go of the paddle unless I have to. I also know that split shaft paddles come apart if you grab the untethered end and you need to have your PDF2 on nice and tight other wise it will float around your ears. I dont know what to do in a hobie, JF has some suggestions. You'll only find out by trying.


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## Ado

That's valuable and considered advice AWTY. Thanks.


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## keza

There can be no golden rule. As I said earlier, I carry a tether sometimes but have only ever hooked it on once.
Wind is the only reason I can see that could keep me away from the yak and a tether could help. This is more of a concern with the barracuda than it is with the scupper pro.
I make sure I un-tether my paddle before coming in in the surf.
My rods are lightly tethered in case I roll but would break in surf or if I got tangled.
I tether things over $10, used to be $6 but that's inflation.


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## cheaterparts

keza said:


> There can be no golden rule.


this hits the nail on the head tethering yourself has both advantages and disadvantage . you have to weigh up the safety both ways 
there are a lot of things that can tangle if you go over and a tether is another thing that can tangle you

however if you could loose the yak due wind or tide flow it's some think worth looking at - you can't remount a kayak that you cant catch



Junglefisher said:


> If you don't have a paddle in your hands, grab a yak handle as you go over. Grab a rod that is tethered.
> Sure, if you let your yak get 100m away, you aren't going to catch it but why would you do that in the first place?


I'd say if I got 10 meters from my kayak in a 4 kph or greater tide flow at anchor I would have trouble getting back to my yak
so would most kayakers I know ( dressed in PFD ) 
it's not as much problem if the yaks also free to run with the tide - not at anchor


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## kayakone

cheaterparts said:


> keza said:
> 
> 
> 
> There can be no golden rule.
> 
> 
> 
> this hits the nail on the head tethering yourself has both advantages and disadvantage . you have to weigh up the safety both ways
> there are a lot of things that can tangle if you go over and a tether is another thing that can tangle you
> 
> however if you could loose the yak due wind or tide flow it's some think worth looking at - you can't remount a kayak that you cant catch
> 
> 
> 
> Junglefisher said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't have a paddle in your hands, grab a yak handle as you go over. Grab a rod that is tethered.
> Sure, if you let your yak get 100m away, you aren't going to catch it but why would you do that in the first place?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'd say if I got 10 meters from my kayak in a 4 kph or greater tide flow at anchor I would have trouble getting back to my yak
> so would most kayakers I know ( dressed in PFD )
> It's not as much problem if the yak's also free to run with the tide - i.e. not at anchor
Click to expand...

Add the wind factor Cheaterparts, to your scenarios where the yak is leaving you. If you go over, and:

1. The wind is 10 knots (18 kph) or above, your chances of regaining the kayak are slim. Above 15 knots, and you have no chance, for even Thorope could not reach it in clothing and a PFD....yet at 15 knots the chances of going over are far greater than at 10 kn. At 20 knots .....
So exponentially, every knot of increase in wind is going to rapidly increase the chances of separation. I wonder how many AKFF'ers have actually tried to re-enter in 15 knots or above? If you take up this challenge, do so only in a controlled environment where help is close at hand, or close to shore with an onshore wind. You may be surprised at the rate the kayak moves away from you.

2. There are problems, such as entanglement with rod/paddle leashes or a hook in you, you are less likely to be able to swim to the kayak before it separates from you, irretrievably. These are real life scenarios that are worth practising (if you live in or near Sydney mark this as a 'must attend': viewtopic.php?f=9&t=56850).

The point is: Your kayak, unless it is sinking, will increase your chances of getting home safely, if you can regain it and successfully re-enter it. I don't tether to my yak, but there may be a case for doing so. Do the 'experiments', and make an informed decision. If you decide to 'tether', be aware that that can introduce an entaglement scenario in a capsize, so you will need the gear to deal with that...

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl= ... wBQ&dur=38

trev


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## vikodin

I had first hand experience in 27knot winds flipping the yak recently and no rods were tethered, I lost 3 out of 5 of them.
I don't regret not having the rods leashed, in those conditions I would hate to have the panic and burden of untangling myself while getting smashed by squalling wind and swell. It would also be wasting extra energy and time that is too valuable to waste that is needed for getting the yak the right way up and your ass back in it.
By the way that was about $750 of rod and reels lost. (but they are replaceable!)

The thing is with practising you don't ever have all your normal gear on, full clothes and there is no substitute for the shock and sudden flip.
In a controlled environment it is a lot different than an actual situation.

Having said that practice! practice! practice!, that maybe was a big reason I had no problem righting and remounting as i knew what I needed to do without thinking about it.

As far as getting back to my yak in that wind, it was no problem at all, I was drifting a similar speed to the yak so managed easily.
Mind you I had no current to worry about.

As said by quite a few people earlier different conditions, Ocean, tidal areas, rivers, etc etc can change weather a tether is appropriate or dangerous.


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