# Is sail going to be more popular ??



## wobbly (Jun 13, 2007)

Hi all ,

the yaks with sails do have a very interesting appeal given the low tech setup and easy to use features that provide low effort long range possibilities.

Could it be that the future of kayak design is moving to sail options on a slightly more stable craft? An ideal example would be a barge like the Hobie Outback with a sail setup or do you think the future remains strongly in favour of sleek paddle yaks?

One remembers sailboarding in the 80s which was all the rage, and so could it be that sail yaking becomes the fashion in the 08s?

Thoughts please.

Regards

Brian


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

different strokes for different folks Brian..

Theres LOTS of different reasons people paddle kayaks.

If you're talking Fishing specific kayaks, then sails will always be a very small minority (too many extra lines to get tangled around rods etc).

However if you mean touring or sea kayaks, then I think sails would be a very welcome piece of equipment.

Theres no place for a sail on a kayak that's going to be subjected to surf entries/launches

Personally I think sailing looks like fun but I'd never consider getting one on my kayak UNLESS I was doing regular offshore forays where I needed to cover several km's back to land everytime, and I could count on the wind direction to push me home.

Still, kayaks which DO have the option of adding a sail are a very attractive option as when the fish aint biting, you can just go out for a fun blast in the wind.


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## JT (May 25, 2006)

I don't think so either. I have tried the sail on the Outback and personally found it to be a pain in the neck. When it is deployed it WILL be affected by the wind (it is after all a sail) and that means alot of flapping, noise and lines to think about. Definately wouldn't have a line out (even trolling) when it was deployed as you would be in the poo if you hooked up. But hey...this is just one guys perspective. You might find it brilliant!

JT


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## bazzoo (Oct 17, 2006)

I have to agree with all the wise and noble gentlemen above , if you want to sail your kayak ,good its good fun , if you want to fish off your kayak good thats great fun too , but really never the two will mix , its fine to use the sail to get to your fishing grounds and back , but as soon as you start to fish it would have to be furled and put away . My last boat was a 25 ft sailing Catermarran that was 16 ft wide and fast , but , it was a proper bitch to try and fish off it , so i didnt bother , as the lines kept getting tangled in the sheets and rigging lines , and the mast and boom got in the way of casting and so on . So by all means get a sail and have fun , i have , but make sure you can stow it when you want to fish


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## rob316 (Oct 2, 2007)

Well ,its not entirely as bad as everyone above has described - i troll from the outback while under sail - the line for controlling the sail is just 1 , and doesn't hinder the fishing - it definately gets me farther out with the knowledge of a return trip can be done by sail , peddle or paddle - its great fun - only weighs about 3 kg - stows easy in 1 minute beside yak - sets up in same time - allows to eat , drink , rig etc whilst moving ....
- it doesn't give that much more speed - it is more to setup and carry [ not much though ] - its expensive to get one but pays for itself quickly - i have found its not a novelty ...
overall , i can see those who want more from their trips and their kayak , will appreciate what benefits are gained by having a sail...i don't / havn't got any problems getting gear etc caught in the sail and it gives peace of mind that another means of propulsion is available if things go astray....


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## Baldy (Oct 1, 2007)

Short answer=Yes!

For one simple reason really, more kayakers in general leads to more people sailing them...which then leads to more exposure and more people wanting to give it a try....even non sailors like myself :lol:

I'd been thinking about them for a while but Arwetheryet's rig has got me motivated to give it a try, mainly the way he was able to use it on the swing as well as the bigger sea kayak. Im not sure about the pacific action type sails with the extra rigging around the end of the footwell and the lack of vision past it? I dunno, Im going to try making one like Pauls first and see how it goes, If I like that then I wont be able to help myself I'll have to try making a PA copy as well. The unused sounder scupper is the plan for the mount, so I can get at it easily and strap it out of the way.
Lots of things to test of course, it might be too close for a start, also need some kind of rubber pipe or something over the mast base as a bit of padding for the scupper and also a brace across the top of the scupper[easily done with a bit of plate ali or even timber]

I would never rely on it to get me anywhere without alot more experience[Im talking years] so if I cant paddle it im not goin there :lol: I just like the idea of it, having a play around and getting a few kms for free is good enough for me. Some people like to muck around with leccys some with sails some peddals....paddles....arrrgghh Baz's nurse....quick 3 green ones PLEASE!! :shock: :lol:

Cheers
Baldy


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

Yeah to the Sail!!!! 

I wouldn't consider going out in either of my yaks without it now. Mine is a very simple set up, weighs less than a kilo, floats, has one cord and can be rolled up and strapped to the side if necessary, out of the way. The more I use it the the more I like. I primarily troll and find the sail perfect for that application. Can go slow or fast depending on wind and direction. I've caught Tailor and spotty macs while trolling with only the sail and plenty of Snapps as well. 

Some sails I've seen, seem to be a little too complicated or only good for going with the wind, and expensive. Check out flumps set up cheap easy and affective.

As far as building bigger yaks to handle a sail, you have the problem of no wind no go, Ross tells me the Hobie island is very hard work when there is no wind around. Perhaps they can incorporate a mast hole and a well designed sail on a yak.

Any way dont knock it till you try it.


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## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

Davey G said:


> Theres no place for a sail on a kayak that's going to be subjected to surf entries/launches


I disagree Davey... If it's properly furled, bagged up and secured to the deck a sail is fine in the surf. You just got to make sure it's not going to go all over the place when you get stitched up by a wave. With the PA types they can be easily disconnected and stored in the hatch.

On the main question, it's horses for courses. Better off using the yak as a yak and consider a sail only if you are ready and prepared for more complications.


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## grinner (May 15, 2008)

i would imagine tacking without a centreboard would be quite difficult. certainly hobie made their name with cats so they should be able to design a good sail. will probably get one as quite often in brisbane we have sw winds in am and ne sea breeze in afternoon so you should be able to do both runs wind assisted . once with a flat battery we managed to rig a v sheet to move us along so wind will move a craft quite well. next thing should be a race me thinks


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## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

Like everything on a fishing yak, a sail should be treated as a tool. If it achieves an intended purpose, then it could be worthwhile. If it is there to make you're yak look good, get a yacht and jump on a sailing forum.


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

Personally I think the Hobie "AI" is more sail boat than kayak, but hey you can still fish out of one if you want. Simple sail is all you need and the more I use mine the more benefits I can see.(mine cost $160 BTW)

Tacking into the wind is hard, but I'm getting better. I have made a centre board but havent had time to use it. I think it might make it too tippy :? . Once I can find a bit more time to experiment I will try the centre board or even maybe a pair of fins similar to a surf board :? . The rudder on the sea kayak helps heaps to. Even having the sail set at the right angle will help.......Still experimenting......all early days yet.

Honestly a few years ago I and plenty of others would have thought kayak fishing to be just a fad, now I dont even seriously consider any other way of fishing.......and the sail just adds a whole new dimension to the sport. Being able to cover more distance and being able to troll at a faster speed for longer will only improve the experience.


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## Shorty (May 11, 2008)

I have never entertained the idea of a sail but i will be getting a kite to get me in from offshore quickly and easily, i have seen reported up to 12 knots in speed has been achieved.

A kite could be seen as a safety item as well, if you see a storm approaching deploy the kite and get to port in double quick time.(if the winds behind you)

Sails seem to be to much of a bother to me but whatever floats your boa,,err yak.


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## paulo (Nov 1, 2007)

I have the Hobie sail and have used it quite a bit. To be honest I find it quite unstable once the wind gets to 10 knots. I dont think I have managed to stay upright once. The last time I had it up in about eight knots in a side creek and it was going fine. When the creek hit the main channel and the full 20 knots the kayak took off and I spent the next ten minutes trying to stay upright whilst hurtling along completely out of control. Now that probably says more about my skill as a sailor than the sail but to be honest I havent had it up since.
I have only ever used it without any rods or gear on the deck. I cant imagine trying to manage a rod or two and the sail. The smaller versions Ive seen people using lately look much more manageable. I pretty much only carry it when I go offshore alone and view it as another option to get home should it be needed rather than something to assist my fishing. Id be interested to hear other Hobie sail users views.


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## Cuda (Sep 18, 2006)

Has anyone used a Hobie sail in an Adventure - minus the AMA's? I like the idea of sitting back enjoying a snack and drink on the way back into shore and taking in the scenery  Does the daggerboard provide enough stability for complete sailing novices like moir?


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## Flump (Apr 17, 2006)

Don't know about being more popular, but it certainly helps give you a bit of a break during a long paddle. Only used mine once but landed my PB Squire last weekend about 5 minutes after deploying the sail 

I think it's just gonna be a one of those things you either like or don't, nothing in between. Bit like the pedal vs paddle debate


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## DavidA (Mar 13, 2007)

Have a look in the Rigged Kayaks section for some more opinions and experiences on sailing an Outback.

David


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## Drewboy (Mar 18, 2008)

It's all about versatility and then discipline, which ever way you choose to go.
IE with an AI, it's a longer learning curve according to how much you want to get out of the sport.
Fully rigged you'll go longer distances to specific distant locations trawling as you go.(Discipline required here as trebbles will catch ropes)
No sail and 1 outrigger it opens up good stable and convenience options.
Just the hull, and more manoeuvrability.... less clutter, but a little more wobble. (You can't walk around on it.What did I say about discipline?)
All I can say is, try it thoroughly, then criticise it.
For me, after years of sailing, windsurfing, hang-gliding and a reasonable amount of fishing, a sail has to be one of the options. And if it is as efficient as the AI's set-up...... it's a winner.
Were here for fun as well.
DB


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## spottymac (Aug 29, 2005)

To much wind today to go fishing off shore so had a play around in the Broadwater in 16 to 20 knot of wind, had a ball love the Pacific Action sail.
At 18 knot it gets a bit tippy on the Adventure with out a daggerboard when tacking at 80deg, the Hobie sail is even bigger so I can see how you could get into a bit of trouble,
I can cruise at 7 to 8 kmh with out peddling and up to 10 to 11 kmh with a steady peddle and this was tacking into the wind most of the time.
Thinking of getting a daggerboard for more stability,
I said the same thing as most of you guys we are paddlers or peddler and we don't sail fishing kayaks and if the sail wasn't sitting in the shed collecting dust and Dan telling me to try it, I wouldn't have given it a go.
I am converted its a very useful tool,
I like the PA sail because it stands up the front and folds down out of the way of the FF and the peddles, 
The Hobie sail mast stands to far back from the front of the kayak for my liking and the guide rope from the top of the mast to the back of the yak may get in the way of the fishing rods. if I was using a sail like the Hobie one I would mount it up the front like Dan [spooled] has fitted to his BFS STEATH,
Early day on this subject and I am sure we can all come up with a good sail system for fishing kayaks.


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## spottymac (Aug 29, 2005)

A few pics of the PA sail on the Adventure


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## breamingfromabass (Aug 22, 2007)

Stu,

That looks bloody tops!!!

I noted that you completely disregarded the mast entry point that is standard on all hobies - why is that? Is it as simple as keeping the sail away from rods etc etc or something more involved?

Do you fish and sail together?

Ta,
Luke.


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## spottymac (Aug 29, 2005)

Ta - yes you are correct it keeps the sail away from rods, FF and gives me a lot more room to fight a fish, the sail only takes 5 sec to pull down out of the way and put a clip over it.


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## Scott (Aug 29, 2005)

Thanks Stu, i think i have found the sail set up for my adventure, that looks awesome.


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## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

spottymac said:


> if I was using a sail like the Hobie one I would mount it up the front like Dan [spooled] has fitted to his BFS STEATH


Dunno if that's such a great idea. :? The hobie sail in the catalogue is just short of 1.9sq/m compared to 1.2sq/m for Stu's PA and my dinghy one. 0.7 sq/m is a lot of extra sail area and mounting it that far forward could make for a curvy ride.


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## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

Heres a link for anyone who wants to make a v sail. I'll make one when I get back from the islands, as for being more popular, I thought sails on kayaks have always been popular. http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/grantgla ... tssail.htm


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## spottymac (Aug 29, 2005)

This is a pic of the PA sail in the down position,


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