# What to look for in a VHF



## Scott

Guys, i have never used a VHF in the yak before, always relying on my PLB if i ever got into trouble. With the new AI i plan to dent the horizon and as such realise the need for a VHF. What features should i be looking for or is there any outstanding models i should look at?


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## TheFishinMusician

eric said:


> Just went back and checked a trip report.
> 
> One thing that did crop up as an issue on the Cobras most of the Moe blokes have is that when water gets on the speaker, it makes them inaudible. The trip to Snake Island back in April it was bit of a problem as I couldn't see TFM (water was kinda up a bit) and he wasn't answering his radio, so I had no idea if he had landed or was halfway to New Zealand. Simply shaking the radio is the fix, but it's worth noting.


Yep, & if you look in the specs of some radios there is a "burp" feature that gives the speaker a good shake to get the water out, which when i bought my first radio I thought sounded like unnecessary levels of bullshizzle, but I now know might be handy. But yeah, tipping it upside down and giving it a good shake & a few pats on the bum works too.


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## Marty75

I believe some of the newer ones come with Bluetooth (albeit at cost of battery power) allowing you to answer your mobile phone via the radio which could come in handy.

Marty


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## Scott

Thanks guys you have given me a few to look at, what is the reception range on these radios?


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## ArWeTherYet

Warranty! Most thing electronic that gets wet will fail eventually, so always check before you leave and get something with a good long warranty.

Distance, you can hear them, they cant hear you so well. I could just get VMR to hear me from my roof top about 8kms away. On a good day on the water with nothing in the way I'd estimate about 10kms to a VMR, less for a boat and even less to another hand held.
There best application is to communicate to someone in close range and to listen to the weather up dates. Keep your PLB and a couple of flairs and sometimes mobile phone can get better reception.


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## kayakone

eric said:


> Just went back and checked a trip report.
> 
> The trip to Snake Island back in April it was bit of a problem as I couldn't see TFM (water was kinda up a bit).....


Up a bit?? :shock: :shock:

A bit above 2 metres is more like it :lol:

trev


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## Scott

BigGee said:


> Important thing to note that one of Mingle's and AWTY's, Scott.
> 
> Practically every transceiver will receive much further away than what it will transmit. Certainly. An error many fall into is thinking because you hear someone does not mean they will hear you when you transmit.
> 
> Monitoring stations that I provide and instruct for, can "sometimes" hear VHF stations many hundreds of kilometres away, in some cases even UHF, but the actual planning range of the transmitter is only a number of single digit kilometers.
> 
> Just something to remember.
> 
> Gee


So in an emergency situation similar to say what Trev had at fish rock, what do you do if you are 10 kms down the coast and 10kms out to sea and there are not any boats around to relay a message? Often there will not be any land any further south of me to pull in to and i am not in enough distress to activate my PLB.


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## Guest

> So in an emergency situation similar to say what Trev had at fish rock, what do you do if you are 10 kms down the coast and 10kms out to sea and there are not any boats around to relay a message? Often there will not be any land any further south of me to pull in to and i am not in enough distress to activate my PLB.


In this situation, i'd advocate doing this


> I'd keep calling a MAYDAY call with my known location if you have it and describing your situation and vessel. I would just keep transmitting as long as I had the energy to do so. Of course I'd be doing that on Ch 16 and not giving a toss about a license etc.
> 
> I would keep going until the battery in my radio was exhausted completely.


When it got to that point and you still hadn't been "rescued" then i'd argue that you were in enough trouble to pull the pin on the PLB. Regardless of whether you thought you were or not. In reality, a sat phone is probably a better investment in really remote areas than a VHF.


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## ArWeTherYet

You could get a long aerial and a extension cord and hold it above your head to get a better reception. You'd even be able to stand up on the AI.


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## kayakone

Scott

Been following this with interest. You are certainly more remote than much of mainland Australia, but you should take comfort from this map...

http://www.mast.tas.gov.au/domino/mast/ ... enDocument

IMO a VHF is invaluable. It provides Sécurité warnings. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securite
It allows you to check current weather. This is very important in your region, where a lot of fronts sweep through Tasmanian waters with regular frequency. Last night's forecast is no longer important ...your concerns are what is actually happening now, or about to happen.

My recommendations are:

1. contribute an annual fee to the local VMR/Coastguard, so they know who you are.

2. always log on with a paddle/sail plan (you are on their 'watch', and if you do not respond by the expected return time, they will activate a search). Do _not_ forget to cancel the 'watch' when you are safe.

3. use it if your VHF if have _any_ concerns, and don't be frightened of it. VMR/Coastguard are trained volunteers whose sole purpose is your safety.

4. see if they have 'DSC' capability = Digital select calling. This means an emergency call from you gives them instant ID of you and your craft, including it's colour, and if your VHF has GPS, the position. (there is a DSC button on some VHF transmitters).

5. for the above reason look at a Standard Horizon HX 851 (not many VHF's have this capability).

6. do the course Marine Radio Operators VHF Operators Certificate of Proficiciency (MROVCP). Many VMR/Coastguard stations run courses. It gives you the correct language and protocols. It provides clear communication principles. Very worthwhile if the poop is hitting the revolving device.

7. finally, it helps you talk about the situation to people who understand, and may save you activating the PLB/EPIRB, in which case a rescue is extremely expensive (about $ 5,000/hr if helicopters are involved).

hope this helps

trev


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## Dodge

Scott when I was using VHF on my old bay cruiser we could double our normal signal range by using a local repeater channel like Trev has mentioned in his comments.

In regard to operators certificate personally know far more who have not done the course, but all observe the correct protocols of using.


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## Scott

Thanks guys, the two areas i intend fishing South of Cape Raoul and out from South East Cape are covered by two recievers which is piece of mind for me. I will take your advice and contact the local Volunteer Coastguard for recommendations.


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## Scott

Thanks again guys. i have just made contact with the Hobart Coast Guard Radio. They advised me it is not worth doing a course. I am better to join their organisation (only $40 a year) and attend a new members night coming up shortly. Apparently i will know everything i need to know at the end of the night inclduing what to buy, and how best to use it.


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## Guest

I may be wrong but i think the ports use an alternate channel to 16 to monitor actual shipping. At least in Brisbane anyway. Ch16 seems to be used more as a watch and alert channel. We get the occasional call to VMR or Coast Guard but they generally move the call to a chat channel. Most people seem to respect it for what it is.


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## antsrealm

Has anyone fitted a fixed mount VHF to there kayak. I already have a lowrance handheld but for the sake of longer battery life and range I have been thinking about buying a 25watt GME it's IP67 waterproof and powering of the larger battery in my hull. That way I don't have to worry about battery power / range and would feel a lot more comfortable knowing I have 5 times more TX power to get a distress call a lot further then my handheld with mediocre battery power.

What's the thoughts on that ?? I assume there is some reason no one is doing this. We've all got sounders hard-wired in so why not a VHF as well ?

Cheers,
Tony.


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## kayakone

nezevic said:


> I may be wrong but i think the ports use an alternate channel to 16 to monitor actual shipping. At least in Brisbane anyway. Ch16 seems to be used more as a watch and alert channel. We get the occasional call to VMR or Coast Guard but they generally move the call to a chat channel. Most people seem to respect it for what it is.


Port of Brisbane Authority and the large commercial ships use channels 12 & 13, but monitor 16 . Occasionally tug and ferry boats use 9, but most of the time it is free for chat (i.e. bragging about your latest catch). I'd imagine it is the same in Sydney etc. Listen, by all means, but do *not *transmit.

trev


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## kayakone

antsrealm said:


> Has anyone fitted a fixed mount VHF to their kayak. I already have a Lowrance handheld but for the sake of longer battery life and range I have been thinking about buying a 25watt GME it's IP67 waterproof and powering of the larger battery in my hull. That way I don't have to worry about battery power / range and would feel a lot more comfortable knowing I have 5 times more TX power to get a distress call a lot further then my handheld with mediocre battery power.
> 
> What's the thoughts on that ?? I assume there is some reason no one is doing this. We've all got sounders hard-wired in so why not a VHF as well ?
> 
> Cheers,
> Tony.


Tony I think any radio for our use should be IPX7 as a minimum. We get wet continually if rough, and splashing from breaking waves, such as I had several times yesterday, is far greater water pressure than any accidental splash, and is probably equivalent to immersion. The extra power sounds like a good idea, but it is one more thing to set-up, and maintain, as well as one more thing to go wrong. One alternative is a second VHF, and/or a spare battery.

The biggest limitation with hand held VHF is the range, or rather the lack of it at times, for we are at (or below sea level at times if rough).

Yesterday whilst at Old Woman Island I attempted unsuccessfully to contact Coastguard Mooloolaba as the seas were building, with a view to extending their watch (I was on their log for an ETA of 12 noon). The distance was 11 km, and the wind was gusting 18 - 20 knots. I couldn't reach them on 73 nor on 16, which is a bit disconcerting. I furled the sail and stood up holding the sail to gain more range...nothing!  To avoid an alert phase being activated, I sailed to a stinker who radioed through the extended ETA. Had I been in trouble, and there were no other boats around, this would have been not pretty. Now the question I've been mulling over for some time is: 
Will raising an aerial improve range? Initial enquires to a marine comms co. said that the aerial would have to exceed 2 metres to be of any substantial benefit, and there could be difficulties with an IPX7 rated connection plug. Hmmmm. Stay posted.

trev


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## antsrealm

Trevor,

Yes the inconvenience of another piece of gear is a bit of a con but I was hoping to permanently mount it. So it's always there, maybe even mount the unit in the hull with the mic and aerial coming out. There $200 unit is IP67 and that means it can handle submersion in 1m for up to 30 mins. However they have one for approx $300 that is IPX7 and specifically states the mic is also submersion tested. At least the main unit will be extra protected in the hull and if I need to replace the mic every two years it's only $60. I would still carry my handheld as a backup, but it seems lacking in range. Just when you need it, it falls short. That would be greatly reduced with the fixed mount 25 watt version. I'm seriously considering getting one and seeing how it fits in with everything. Plus I have an abundance of 12V batteries from a large UPS system I recently removed from a job


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## kayakone

antsrealm said:


> Trevor,
> ... I would still carry my handheld as a backup, but it seems lacking in range. Just when you need it, it falls short. That would be greatly reduced with the fixed mount 25 watt version.


Are you sure Tony? Check the facts first...transmission power may not be the only factor. My VHF has 4 settings (1,3,5 & 6W), yet it did not work yesterday even when standing. For what you are proposing, the aeriel (or lack of a decent length one) may be a severely limiting factor.

I thought about the comments I received to my earlier enquiry, and did wonder if an internal aeriel could be fitted inside the mast of the AI/TI.
Tempting, if it could be done, and still be reliable. Now that would increase the range massively (guessing - by about 15 nm).

There is at least another factor at play here. If you recall viewtopic.php?f=43&t=52651&p=571913&hilit=Bribie+to+Cape+Moreton#p571913 , you were trying Bribie island VMR when we were about to leave the Cape, to get onto the log so they could keep an eye on our safety. You tried several times over 10 minutes and couldn't raise them, which was disconcerting cause we were over 30 kms from home base, and it was gusting to 31 knots. I tried them on 6W and failed also, but did recieve the Gold Coast Seaway VMR, who couldn't raise them also. On previous trips to the Cape, I had raised Bribie from that area, but as Seaway Tower said on that day, they were temporarily not in the radio room.

Now getting Bribie from there on a handheld is transmitting over a large distance, and generally you can do this. You do not normally have problems over distances of 20 - 30 kms with a handheld. I have no idea what was wrong yesterday. One thing is that handhelds do at times suffer from atmospheric conditions that allow only one way comms....this was confirmed by Coastguard/VMR today by telephone.

The other point is the presence or otherwise of repeater towers. There is one on channel 21 at Cape Moreton.

Anyway, pursue your idea and see what eventuates from the fact finding. Could be interesting.

[Table of Marine Radio Contacts & frequencies at http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/Safety/Marine ... tacts.aspx]

trev


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## antsrealm

I am sure of nothing at this point 

I'll keep thinking about it and see what eventuates.

Cheers.


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## skorgard

Scott said:


> Thanks guys you have given me a few to look at, what is the reception range on these radios?


Scott I have the LHR-80. With an AI you can cover a lot of ground and can be out of range very quickly. I often cannot raise my local volunteer marine station even with line of sight to her house (Eastern Cove Kangaroo Island) because it goes via a repeater with a hill in the way. However I am assured that if I sent out a Mayday the Adelaide station 80 km away would receive it.

The system is not perfect. When a group of us yakkers launch before dawn off the Adelaide beaches I want to send out a warning to the stink boaters but the VMR don't start until 0700. Perhaps I should try a securite warning to which the Coast Guard may respond.

Paul
(Hmm a 550 and an AI - are we becoming brothers?)


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## Scott

skorgard said:


> Scott said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks guys you have given me a few to look at, what is the reception range on these radios?
> 
> 
> 
> Scott I have the LHR-80. With an AI you can cover a lot of ground and can be out of range very quickly. I often cannot raise my local volunteer marine station even with line of sight to her house (Eastern Cove Kangaroo Island) because it goes via a repeater with a hill in the way. However I am assured that if I sent out a Mayday the Adelaide station 80 km away would receive it.
> 
> The system is not perfect. When a group of us yakkers launch before dawn off the Adelaide beaches I want to send out a warning to the stink boaters but the VMR don't start until 0700. Perhaps I should try a securite warning to which the Coast Guard may respond.
> 
> Paul
> (Hmm a 550 and an AI - are we becoming brothers?)
Click to expand...

We both have good taste in yaks Paul. i can see those two getting the lions share of the use.


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## bunsen

Pretty sure you do still require a minimum mrovcp to operate a vhf, I have the mrocp, although unlikely I'll ever be using mf/hf radio. 
Trev, ch 13 is the ch used for general port calling, most of the tugs etc switch to ch 11 or another here for working, at very low power so range isn't far.
If I was in trouble in the yak, I'd be transmitting on the max power possible, due to the low height of tx antenna on the yak. Dsc is great, but the range is the same as r/t channels, so if you can't be heard on ch 16, you won't get any further on ch 70.


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## emufingers

This thread reinforces the sense of doing the course. It is important to understand the VHF system and how it varies from place to place if you want to get the best results. Some of the posts here describe local situations and it is useful to know what to use for what purposes. By the way it is not illegal to transmit on a VHF set in a situation of distress.
VHF Channel 16 and Channel 67 are calling channels.They are used for ditress calls and for establishing a non urgent covnersation on another channel. These channels are monitored 24 hours a day in South Australia and a very sensitive network is used to cover all SA coastal waters. I am not sure about other areas monitoring coverage.

For three minutes past the hour and half hour you are required to observe radio silence on these channels. This gives the emergency services the best chance of identifying and respondig to weak signals.

Channel 67 has routine and warning forecasts on a regular basis.

In your local area you will often have access to at least one repeater that takes you signal and boosts it and re transmits it instantaneously. These channels are for non urgent traffic , but are monitored by VMRs in the area and it is possible to request assistance.

In the Adelaide area
As Skorgard says, it is only possible to log your trip with Sea Rescue Adelaide or Coast Guard Adelaide between 7am and 7 pm. During these hours, your call should be acknowledged and you will be asked to change to a non urgent channel, usually channel 73 to complete the conversation. This is to keep the emergency function of Channel16 as free as possible. 
It is also possible to log on and off using Channel 80 which is the Myponga repeater and covers most of St Vincent Gulf.

Remember that even if you cant reach a VMR, you can ask all stations to respond in order to contact other VHF equipped boats.

Kangaroo island is a bit tricky because of the cliffs and hills. Channel 21 is the KI repeater. The main monitoring is done by a VMR station in American River that monitors Channels 16, 80, 21 VHF It is useful to try allof these frequencies to offset the tricky geography. Remember however that the emergency receiver network monitoring Channels 16 and 67 is also monitoring with very sensitive equipment and any mayday signal will be picked up and relayed to Coast Radio Adelaide 24 hours a day. You can't just chat on these channels or use this relay network for anything other than Mayday situations. but its coverage is quite remarkable.

If you wish to let other boats know of your presence it is possible to make a non urgent all stations call on Channel 16 because this is the watch frequency for VHF. It should be received by other boats, but unfortunately the use of VHF is limited and all the boats with only a 27mhz radio will not hear you.

As you can see geeting a licence is not just a matter of legality. It is about knowing how to get correct local information so that you can use the best frequencies for boat to boat communication. Throughout the world Channels are 16 and 67 are the emergency channels and should be used for emergency communications.


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