# Wow that 1st time was a bit rough



## Russ (Feb 24, 2006)

It feels like it wants to roll over I said to my bro, your not wrong he said,

SPLASH :shock: In he went. Our first paddle had been a long time coming and today was the day. We launched at a crisp 6.15am at Yarra Bay in Botany and the conditions were perfect. Right from the outset we did'nt feel comfy and it wasn't long and the first roll occurred. My bro lost a rod and reel worth $$$$$$$$$$$

NOT HAPPY Forgot to leash the rods :evil: :evil:

It was a good hour before we started to feel confident on the Yak and I suggested we head for the sand. My bro had just agreed when

SPLASH :shock:

In he went again. To say he was filthy was an understatement and our baptism of fire was over. I hope it was just inexperience, however both Yaks had a bad habit of wanting to throw you off. I hope it is just our lack of paddle time and not the boat 

 fishing Russ


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

Wow Russ. That doesn't sound right. Have any of your mods raised the centre of gravity? Did they settle down when paddling or were they equally unstable regardless of speed?

Maybe a call to Dagger is in order. They may have some advice for you.

Never good losing gear overboard. To do it first time out must be very annoying.


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## Scott (Aug 29, 2005)

Russ, I have to agree with Peril. Either your modifications have affected the way the boats handle or they are crap to begin with. I don't think I could tip my P15 if I tried. I have raised my seating position an inch with extra padding under my seat and still climb all over it, sit side saddle and straddle it in all conditions. To tip in calm conditions something has to be drastically wrong. Whatever it is I hope it can be rectified.

Catch ya Scott


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## Russ (Feb 24, 2006)

Gatesy we trolled a few lures around but the mind was well and truly on the balance. 
Scott and Peril....We have a paddle planned for the next 2 weeks and it will be seat, Yak and paddle only, if I am not happy with that I will talk to dagger. I joked about it today and suggested that they may have left out the internal boyancy foam :? I will not comment as that would be unfair to the manufacturer, however I did expect a little more than todays performance. It was that bad I could not even turn around and access my other rod :shock: for fear I would end up in the drink, :lol: :lol: funny when the bro went splash I looked around and could only see the bottom of his Yak 

Did you do a test paddle I hear you say,

 I wont answer for fear of incriminating myself.

 fishing Russ


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## dooyor (Jun 26, 2006)

hi russ 
something wrong for sure pack it up send it back and get a espri or a swing ect. see you tommy


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## Scott (Aug 29, 2005)

Again I agree with what Kraley and Dooyor are saying. On Friday while accessing my front hatch, I straddled my P15 sitting right up the bow actually on the front hatch and rocked it side to side to see how much lean I could get without tipping. To say I was surprised by the secondary stability was an understatement. I am able to carefully stand up to get my SPs out of mooring ropes/off wharves ect when I am not casting flat enough.

This is not really singing the praises of the Prowler as you could do this in a swing or any of the other popular fishing yaks. You need to establish where the problem is and either fix it or get rid of them if the problem is in the boat. You will never enjoy yourself if you are constantly struggling to stay upright and what happens when you hook a powerful fish or are faced with adverse weather conditions?

Catch ya Scott


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## Dodge (Oct 12, 2005)

Russ

I came to SOTs from big boats, and the first yak paddle caused a bit of bum puckering for 5 minutes maximum, then once I became adjusted to the different feel of the smaller craft I relaxed.

Having said that at no time did I feel I was going to roll over.

And buoyancy foam within a hull, plays no part in flotation until it is pushed below the water surface; like a PFD it works under the surface, so any problems are not foam material missing.

Try a couple of tackle free trips and see if you feel more comfortable


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## yaker (Aug 29, 2005)

.


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## kingfisher111 (Jun 13, 2006)

Russ I went to your new kayak post to check because I couldn`t remember the shape of your boats hull. Can`t see it anyway so tell us is it flat on the bottom? Flat bottoms are supposed to be firmer in initial stability, but don`t like to be tilted and tend to tip quickly and without much warning when they do go. Gull shapes are a lot tippier initially but as anyone with one will tell you that feeling only lasts 10 minutes or so. The great thing about them though is as you lean them further over the secondary stability kicks in and makes them near impossible to tip without falling off first. It doesn`t seem as though your mods should have had too much effect, maybe they are just dogs of boats or you just need lots more time to grow into them. Probably just the latter because the market standard is so high that manufacturers just couldn`t entertain the cost of running a dud mould. They`d be found out in no time. Steve.


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## PeterJ (Aug 29, 2005)

Looks to me like thay have a fairly flat bottom , the width is 70cms


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## Russ (Feb 24, 2006)

Thanks fella's, all info will be taken onboard.
The hull seems to have your standard look to most Yaks I have seen, with a few exceptions. It has a relatively flat hull with an indented chine?running the middle of the hull around 2 metres in length. I will have a bare boat paddle with the bro on Wednesday afternoon as I dont believe that any of my fittings would have caused the feeling of unease. Last night I weighed myself and all of the gear that went on the boat and it came in at a conservative 95kgs, the max rating for the boat is 120kgs. My bro did the same and he estimated 115kgs so the comparison there is enough for me to rule out a weight problem. I expected a bit of initial paddle nerves but was not expecting the shear possibility of tipping over. It was so bad that you had to prepare yourself, [ take a breath ] to lean forward and let the line run off your reel to start a troll. To look behind or even twist around and access your crate just was'nt an option.

:lol: :lol:..... Did I mention the laughs as I turned and saw my bro's hull, no sign of him and his gear. I suggested he get a Minn Kota and mount it upside down 

 fishing Russ


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## andybear (Jan 15, 2006)

Hi Russ

Thats the most unheard of thing, I have ever heard of! :shock:

I'm no marine engineer, but there must be something wrong. Ive been in SIKs where you feel that initial wobble, but everything is fine once you get used to it. Ive abused my yak with putting an extra person in the front and rear well, and never been unstable. Its always in my head that I could capsize, but if I thought the odds were more that 800 to one against, I would go back to roller skating for a hobby!

It seems that even in good conditions, you have the feel of doom about the whole thing, I don't really want to badmouth your yaks, but ...I think you may have to look for something different 

Please dont hate me for saying that... and just think of me as an older somewhat deranged and balding brother

Cheers Andybear :lol:


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

Russ, what a bummer. After 6 months of expectation, your first paddle turns out like that!

Obviously not enough time spent perfecting your beanbag technique! :lol:

Seriously though, this sounds like the boats are at fault in terms of your weight (centre of gravity) being too high above the waterline and causing tippiness and a loss of balance. Hollow boats dont contain any 'flotation foam' they work on water displacement to keep them afloat, so that can't be the issue.

SOME instability is to be expected, especially on your first paddle, but within 5 minutes you should be feeling comfortable on the yak.

My Tarpon 120 is about the same width as yours (71cm) and I can sit sidesaddle, crawl up to the front hatch and handle decent fish without problem (haven't tipped her yet, touch wood!) Theres also plenty of guys here with smaller yaks that also havent had such problems on their first paddle.

In rough water I might expect some tipping and perhaps a capsize, but with absolutely calm conditions it's a little strange.

I'd be interested to hear how you go with a 'bare boat' paddle.


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2006)

Hey Russ,

Does sound strange mate.

I have a Tarpon 120 like Davey G, and have never come close to tipping it. I have only tipped it once which was deliberate, and even then I had to grab the side handle and actually pull the kayak over as I leaned right over the side.

I'm able to stand in my Tarpon 120 and shift my weight from side to side and rock the boat quite alot without any problems as well. I'm 90kgs.

Very strange indeed.......


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## Jake (Sep 23, 2005)

Russ,
I feel like that whne I first get back in the saddle after a while away from the yak. Its no big deal. You will just get used to it, and soon enough you will be wondering what all the fuss was about.
Just persevere with it mate.
Cheers,
Jake


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## Russ (Feb 24, 2006)

Thanks for all the info boy's it all helps. It got the better of me this afternoon and I pulled the boat down off the wall and threw it in the bloody pool :shock: I looked at the Yak and Im sure it was lookin back at me sayin :evil: come on antsy boy give a whirl if ya got the nads  OH MY GOD :shock: I shoulda called the Yak damien from the Omen, bring it on it yelled as I plowed my right leg into my wetsuit  Yeh thats right my wetsuit 8) You want a piece of this I said as the boat floated innocently in the pool with the dissposition of an unmaintained stink boat. Bring it on paddle rat if ya got what it takes.
I slipped the child free lock on the pool fence and pushed hard against the gate, :x it did'nt move Bloody kids lock gets me everytime. I approached the boat hoped on and fevourishly rocked back and forth, turned to the left, mmm this feels a little better swung around to the right

SPLASH

Barstard  sh*t that pool was cold. Will have a paddle on the Georges River at East Hils Wednesday around 1.00pm if anybody is around come down for a laugh :lol: :lol:

 fishing Russ


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## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

A couple of more goes with not much gear on board and I'm sure everything will be fine. Its just a matter of getting used to it all. You might of been trying to do too much, all at once. :wink:


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## Russ (Feb 24, 2006)

Breambo said:


> A couple of more goes with not much gear on board and I'm sure everything will be fine. Its just a matter of getting used to it all. You might of been trying to do too much, all at once. :wink:


  You may be right Breambo

 fishing Russ


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## Dodge (Oct 12, 2005)

Russ said:


> I approached the boat hoped on and fevourishly rocked back and forth, turned to the left, mmm this feels a little better swung around to the right
> SPLASH


Russ notice it was only on the turn the problem occurred and had another thought.

When making trousers tailors always asked, 'does sir dress to the left or right?'

Maybe it's only a dressing problem you old stud :lol: :lol:


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## PoddyMullet (Aug 29, 2005)

Russ, I've test driven a Cayman and reckon they're A OK (but after SIK's any SOT feels tippy initially). Maybe the gents in your family have x-tra large testicles which will require some more paddles to get it all together balance wise? Stick at it, yer perserverance factor is apparently directed related to the size of ya christmas decorations (according to recent scientific research) :wink:


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## hairymick (Oct 18, 2005)

Heya Rus,

Any chance of some piccies of the beasts bottom? something doesn't sound right.


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## Russ (Feb 24, 2006)

:lol: :lol: Poddy ya hit the nail on the head mate. Although the prob might be no balls instead of size n rise. I am beginning to feel that I was prejugemental on the Yak and I feel that the 4 hrs I spent in Peril off Longreef may be my yardstick, that being the case I feel it is a little unfair on the Cayman. Anyway I will take her for a paddle today for a couple of hours and see how it goes. I think I already know the outcome and my next post will be a long drawn out apology 

HairyMick :? I can get a photo of the hull no worries, however, I hope the only time I see the hull is on the roof racks.

Maybe I should take just one rod and a Halco
Or two rods & throw out a SX40 :shock: 
No stop it this is serious 

 fishing Russ


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## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

Good luck Russ. Just remember if you go to tip, place a flat blade on the water on the side you are falling, to 'brace' yourself. I reckon one rod today is the go :wink:


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## Dodge (Oct 12, 2005)

Breambo said:


> . I reckon one rod today is the go :wink:


No, wrong advice.......mask and snorkel :wink:


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## Russ (Feb 24, 2006)

Well I'm back I did feel a tad more comfortable this time.

Did not end up in the drink

BUT

I just cant see the boats attitude changing. I will keep working with the manufacturer as he assured me it was not the boat. :roll: But I want to see them do in that boat in front of my very eyes, what I need it to do, otherwise we will have a problem. If they show me it can be done then I will go away.

Oh a test paddle  if only a test paddle 

 fishing Russ


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## Scott (Aug 29, 2005)

Russ, your final words from your last post are indeed pearls of wisdom if you are going with an unknown boat. I think you could safely get away without a test paddle on a Prowler, Swing or Espri ect as there are so may of these awesome fishing machines out there you can't go too wrong in choosing one.

Despite this however I think that test paddling all of your options, simulating fishing conditions and loads is the sensible thing to do.

Catch ya Scott


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## Russ (Feb 24, 2006)

Scott the worst thing is I promised myself that I would. 

WATA D*CKHEAD

 fishing Russ


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## JT (May 25, 2006)

A bit of a bummer of a situation Russ. I am sorry that you are going through this especially after your long wait.

If it is any comfort at least you know that this situation will pass sometime soon, either because the yak will come right or you will replace them both with the help of the manufacturer (of course ) :?

If it is that unstable then it definately sounds like the boat is a wrong fit or it is just plan rooted as a model. You might want to start discussing a swap or something with the retail outlet or the manufacturer. I am sure the manufacturer would want to do the right thing by you especially considering this is quite a public issue here on the boards. 8)

Anyway, I hope it works out for you mate and sooner than later.

JT


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## fisher (Aug 30, 2005)

I'm feeling for you Russ - unfortunately you are experiencing the thing that scares us all about buying a new yak. I hope it works out well for you - you deserve to enjoy the experience - good luck!


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## Russ (Feb 24, 2006)

Thanks to all for the encouragement. I just hope that our new members take something out of my experience and that is :evil: paddle the bastard before you pay for it. My situation should be a lesson to all who are about to purchase their first Yak.

 fishing Russ


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## Salty Dog (Sep 18, 2005)

G'day Russ, I'd have to agree with all here. It should be pretty hard for you to capsize. My first paddle was with my 2year old son in my lap at Manly & there was no question of my going in.

Everyone wants to love their kayak but if it is no good....

Maybe give it a few more tries but if it is unworkable I'd be taking it back if I were you.


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## Russ (Feb 24, 2006)

Did you say RAWPRAWN 

Sorry :roll:

 fishing Russ


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

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## Milt (Sep 2, 2005)

Shame, sorry to hear about your disatisfaction Russ,

I'd consider trading it in for a more stable craft if the experience doesn't improve for you? Sure you may loose a few dollars in the process but the fish you catch on the new craft will make up for it :!:

Best of luck Milt,


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## kingfisher111 (Jun 13, 2006)

Russ, are there any experienced AKFF members around where you live or fish that could meet up with you and have a paddle in your kayak. If after a bit of a paddle they thought it was a bit tippy then you would know at least that it`s not necessarily you who`s having trouble. If on the other hand the toyboy feels stable to the other guys then.........Steve.


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## PhilipL (Apr 15, 2006)

My thoughts exactly Steve.

Also Russ, if the issue is still there after some time and you end up keeping the yak, it looks like a great fishing platform - why don't you think about outriggers - somehow I don't think you'll have a problem making them...I wonder why...
(unsure if anyone else has suggested this, but I've only scanned the other comments thus far)

Must admit, I've been on mine about 6 times now I think and I still feel unstable turning round to get things out the back and moving up and down the cabin. I figure I'll get used to this soon enough - suspect its also the thought of getting in the cold melbourne drink this time of year and will probably get over it in the summertime.

Good luck.


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## Flump (Apr 17, 2006)

Sorry to hear about your problems Russ, hope mine doesn't end up the same  . As an extra to what Phil said (and only if you really want to keep the yak), as well as considering outriggers, why not use some ballast in the form of two or three 10 Kg bags of sand placed in the bottom of the yak. This should have the effect of lowering the centre of gravity and make things more stable.


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## shayned (Jul 12, 2006)

And what happened next?????? Don't leave me hanging, was it the build quality, did you just need more water time, do you have a unique inner ear infection only activated by being near water buggering up your balance or was it just the wrong yak for you????????

Waiting in eager anticipation.
Regards,
Shayned


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