# Commercial Competitions Feedback Thread



## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

OK, so with the various commercially run kayak fishing competions (ABT, KFT and FFC) now having been 'run and won' we thought that we'd run an 'official' fact finding mission and get some feedback from AKFF members. It seems that AKFF members made up a huge chunk of entrants (over 85%) to both comps so our feedback should be of interest to these event organisers (who have all been advised this thread is running).

This thread is (hopefully) going to be a useful tool for these event organisers to hear what kayak fishos thought was great, and perhaps not so great about this years events. The idea is that the information contained within this thread will allow the organisers to find out exactly what kayak fishos want in terms of these events for the future, and tweak their events accordingly.

This thread is not meant to be a 'whinge' fest or a bagging session towards the events. The idea is that we can generate an honest report of the good and bad points of these events and an indication of what YOU would like to see in future.

We also welcome input from the event organisers, who are the ones dealing with councils, waterways, legal issues, insurance, sponsors etc etc. It would be great to hear about some of the logistical issues surrounding these events (as I'm sure 95% of us wouldn't have a clue what's involved in putting these events on)...

This years events seemed to be pretty good (especially as a first up effort) so if you competed (or not) in these events, and you thought there was something 'missing' or perhaps had an idea of how the events would be better suited to YOU then please, feel free to voice your opinions within this thread.

Cheers.


----------



## koich (Jul 25, 2007)

Bass comp at Tallowa.

That is all.

I would be kind of unlikely to enter a Bream comp as I'm an absolutely terrible Bream fisho and don't look like improving soon. Bass I am pumped for and once a yak based bass comp starts (that isn't in queensland) I'll be all over it.

I can't really justify the cost to ship my yak further than I can drive in a few hours for the lack of prize money that I won't win. I would attend comps further away with more notice and the promise of a usable kayak at the other end.

In fact, I would attend virtually any freshwater based comp (within a few hours drive) as this is where I'd back myself in a comp.


----------



## BIGKEV (Aug 18, 2007)

I was only a little dissapointed that the ABT and KFT events in Queensland were both on the same weekend (Mooloolaba and Gold Coast).

They are both very different events so I am sure not everybody would have competed in both but there is probably a good percentage of the locals that would have given them both a go if they had the opportunity.

I know that Steve Fields from Hobie mentioned that plans were already underway for the 2010 ABT/Hobie series and he expected dates to be released within the next couple of months. Hopefully the early release of dates for one of these events will prevent the double ups experienced this year.

I really enjoyed the tournament style offered by the ABT even though I had never really targetted bream on lures before. If things work out during the year I might put my name in as a non-boater in some of the upcoming ABT events to try and learn a bit more about this challenging style of fishing prior to next year.

I think that we may see a few more of the regular ABT guys have a go next year also, as during the Forster GF local young gun Russel Babekuhl admitted that yak fishing was much more difficult than fishing from a boat, not just because of the physical aspect of paddling/peddling but you lose a certain amount of leaverage over good fish and you just can't stop em. So my tip is that a few of the guys may want the extra challenge involved with fishing from a kayak, and make an appearence during the 2010 series.

A couple of events in the back half of the year would probably also be nice, as it is just about all over for tournament fishing for 2009. I suppose that just means we can get plenty of practice before 2010.

That's my 2 bobs worth. Looking forward to others thoughts also.

Kev


----------



## Nativeman (Sep 6, 2005)

Congratulations to ABT and KFT for their recent Tournaments, a job well done on both accounts. 

I just want to know whether ABT of KFT are going to have a series where the target series is Bass, fishing for Bream is not my cup of tea and many others too.

Cheers


----------



## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

I am going to second everything Kraley has said, he said it much more eloquently than i could have.

I think given the support the ABT comps got from down south a south coast NSW and a VIC rounds are a must. Mallacoota would be awesome.
ABT events were so professionally organised every week it was great
As for Bass would be great but its a whole other series otherwise bass fisho's would have to compete in a bream grand final.
Maybe the organisers could ask on the forums for suggestions of locations and of course reasons why there an excellent yak fishing bream comp location.

As for KFT to far for me to travel every couple of weeks to QLD, cut yourselves out of a big market there guys.

FFC I agree with the photos, I personally on day 1 caught a 37cm Flathead he was entered as such, but on the photo he was 39cm from the camera angle. Live weigh-ins are the only way.

Cheers Dave


----------



## Shorty (May 11, 2008)

Good first up effort for both comps, its a given that there will be round/s in Victoria next year so i will not be pushing that angle,,i do see most of Australia being neglected for a few more years to come,,its about marketing to the biggest population centers (or within reach),, maybe call it the East Coasters bream shindigs ? :lol:

The pro bream ABT boys joining will be a bit of a worry, they could bring a new level of seriousness and stressfullness (are these words ? ),,,so thats a big concern,,we could possibly lose the average joe AKKFER and the wealthy will move in,,

Kft ? A nice social comp with a bit of razzle dazzle,,well done to the lads,its good to see Ocean Kayaks get involved with something as well,,good marketing for them.

But all in all a good start and food for thought,,well done all.


----------



## koich (Jul 25, 2007)

justcrusin32 said:


> As for Bass would be great but its a whole other series otherwise bass fisho's would have to compete in a bream grand final.
> Maybe the organisers could ask on the forums for suggestions of locations and of course reasons why there an excellent yak fishing bream comp location.


Even Better idea.

I suggest, Tallowa.


----------



## paffoh (Aug 24, 2006)

FFC,

Arpie you should be commended on your social work at convincing people to attend, thing is though many of us can only get weekends off and work 60+ hours a week with no leave available. While I understand the FFC is a week long event you have to realise the kayak event was sold to us as a weekend event which enabled many to enter. Turning around and saying 'Their choice' when obviously many, many people had to return back whence they came during the week ( Even before the grand final event ) isnt really a fair comment, how many people live around the area under an hour away? ( How many dont? )... Any idea on the tourism these events generate? ( Yakkers from more than 200km away? )

Our $100 ultimately ( As many could not stay and use the $100 entry fee to partcipate in other FFC events ), as Ken said, should have gone to perhaps a more dedicated entry system rather than a prize pool to be given out randomly after the event on numerous days following. I was told numerous times that to enter I had to pay ahead and must have met certain requirements ahead of the opening day ( Was very confused when I saw people paying on the day ). Was also told we would be supplied with a mat system for our $100, then a week prior I read 'Dont forget to bring your rulers, brag mats etc'... I am sure if we knew a current fisheries sticker would be all that is required for legal measurement many would have created devices such as yourself to aid in measuring a legal fish.

A few complaints with the key tag, name tag photo system ( If you forget, you forget ). Saying the judges decision is final is a bit of a boiling point, did all fish that not have a key tag / name tag in the photo be allowed to submitted? Declaring my intentions to the length table upon landing at 1pm on Sunday ( After discussing earlier that morning ) I mentioned I had a 33cm Bream with no name tag in photo, my entry was denied ( And rightfully so, so I thought ).

ABT,

Pretty slick events only marred by the travelling distance and the weather leading up to the QLD events. NSW has plenty to offer and the Gippsland region would be a draw card for mexicans and interstate travellers alike. A South Australian and West Australian event and a few more NSW rounds ( South Coast, Sydney twice ) would spice things up, even if many of us couldnt get to the S.A or W.A event many could and I am sure would be viable. ABT and Hobie have things in the pipeline that should eventually see the light of day, cant comment as am unsure when and what but the confidence gained from running the first series so well will be translated to future events.

KFT,

Sounds like fun and would consider going in an event if they were a little closer to home, nothing wrong with C, P & R fishing ( As shown with the FFC ) as long as the sytem works, which with your Bream seemed to quite well. As a mod I will dissregard some of the above member comments but just so everyone knows both parties were treated the same on AKFF goverened by our rules and regulations, both tournament events that had date clashes drew almost identical numbers and all clashing events seemed to go off without a hitch. As long as the KFT team realise people are not out to destroy your livelyhood ( A date clash is a date clash ), it happens man and future prevention is the only cure.

Well done to all for entering, chasing and supporting any of these comps / rounds / tournamnets in 2009...


----------



## Rodman (Jun 29, 2007)

I'll only comment on the ABT comps as that's where my interest lies, and my comments are from someone who didn't compete in the events.

Previously I owned a bream boat for about 18 months, and competed in an ABT affiliated event. However, I found that boating wasn't for me, and it didn't get enough use. I converted over to the kayak and haven't looked back.

*Locations*
I agree with Kraley that Victoria and southern NSW locations would attract similar numbers of entrants.

*Timing*
ABT Bream comps should be run separately to other events (obviously I'm talking about FFC), and not under the rules of other comps. Also, I don't see an issue with running an ABT bream kayak event on the same weekend that a regular ABT bream event is run, as long as it's not at the same location.

*Gear*
Comment was made in relation to the supply of sponsor-branded kayaks in the final as making it a "level playing field". I tend to believe that a level playing field would be having competors fish from their own kayaks with their own gear set up how they like. This is exactly the same as normal ABT rounds. Having to drive to a final with your own yak is no different to towing a boat interstate, as some have done, and others have organised to borrow boats. It's a national competition. Naturally, I understand why the final was done this way.

*Rules*
I would anticipate that the rules next year would be much more formalised, getting closer to the ABT bream rules (handbook, ettiquette, etc). No "wildcard" entries, everyone gets in on their own merit. Obviously being a "trial run" and piggybacking off the Forster event it was a different story this time, no issues there.

Finally, as a measure of how keen I am to see the ABT comps make it down to Victoria, I've already built my livewell and tested it (twice), possibly nine months before it will see competition use! Congratulation to ABT and Hobie on what (from an armchair perspective) appears to have been a very well run series. Roll on 2010!

Gary


----------



## crazyratwoman (Feb 26, 2007)

...


----------



## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Also, something we would love feedback on - the structure and nature of commercial entity involvement in the forum, in the context of commercial fishing competitions.

We pride ourselves on AKFF for our commercial transparency (ie: making sure that when an opinion is commercially motivated, in the context of kayak fishing, that everyone is damn well sure that there is potentially a commercial motivation to the comment). Commercial entities are a very welcome, but uniquely constrained member of the forum. They are welcome to participate in any thread which is out of the scope of their commercial involvement - just like any other forum member.. but they have to be fully above-board when it comes to stuff they may gain a commercial benefit from. The mods protect you pretty heavily when it comes to that stuff.

So at the moment, commercial events have their own clearly delineated subforums, and threads are constrained in number in order to minimise the potential to overwhelm the normal (non-commercial) activity of the forum - ie:
* 1 Subforum per competition
* 1 thread per event.

So, this is your forum - let us know if we're being overprotective, underprotective, or about right.
In particular, here are some potential options:
* Bugger off, let them have open slather!
* Retain the subforum per competition but let the organisers have as many threads in that subforum, as they want.
* Retain the subforum per competition but let the organisers have three threads per event:
- Initial event where/when/etc information
- Urgent notifications/changes
- Competition wrapup & results (organisers overview - not really a trip report)
* Retain the subforum per competition, let the organisers have one thread per event (initial stuff, notifications, wrapup), with potentially another 'results' thread.
* Get these kids off my lawn, they're cluttering the place up.

ok.. so options 1 and 5 are probably impractical - let us know your thoughts.



> Maybe next time the the AKFF Mod team could..


Paul, please don't ascribe to maliciousness, that which can be adequately explained with other reasons. Personally, I was in it for the social side - and at least a dozen AKFFers I knew were going to the ABT thingie. Only three AKFFers that I knew of were going to the KFT. Had they been on different dates, I wouldn't have been forced to prioritise them though.. and wife-willing, I will hopefully go to the next KFT.

Red.


----------



## craig51063 (May 30, 2008)

obviously none of the comps are going to be ran perfectly .

FFC $100 entrance fee is a bit steep .

At the FFC you had shimano set up a product display BUT you couldnt buy anything ???????????

This to me is very strange as they would have made a killing . ie squidgies - rods -reels -lines .
I would have spent $300 alone on a couple of rods i saw .

Maybe the FFC could run a fishing expo in line with the comp were companies show off and sell there wears ?????

OKUMA - DAIWA - BERKLEY - HUMINGBIRD -to name a few .

hanging for next year hopefully i wont dohnut again

oh and the same sugestion with the abt grand final .

if you make it to the grand final fishing from the yak of your choice you should be able to fish from the yak of your choice in the grand final.
i also noticed that there were reliabilaty issues with the hobies in both the ffc and the abt grand final .

though i must also say that i test drove an outback on tuesday and i saw more fish in 2 hours than i did in 3 days on my yak ??? plus my wife wants to buy an outback   

bring on next year

craig


----------



## Rstanek (Nov 5, 2007)

I really enjoyed the FFC (the only event I was able to enter), but would've preferred it to be live weigh in and a 'bream only' event, just to keep things consistent with the rest of the Hobie kayak abt series. I'm still don't really agree with how it was possible to make it to the final of a national kayak bream comp without actually catching a bream ;-) .

I thought the vibe was good at the event, competitive yet friendly. Only had one yakker ignore my "how are you going today?" and turn their back on me as I drifted past (luckily, I'm pretty sure they weren't forum member). Didn't witness any of the alleged spittings of the dummy, but did see a few people stack it on that boat ramp :lol: .

I'd like to see more Sydney events, there's so many perfect arena's for them. I almost felt the Wallis Lakes system was too big. Kind of intimidating when you finish fishing one flat, look up to the next area you want to fish and it's roughly a kilometre away :shock: , and talk of all the good water up the back of the system that's just impossible to reach and fish in the time limit. I reckon somewhere like Narrabeen Lake would be an ideal setting: big enough so it wouldn't get crowded, but small enough to start in the middle and be able to fish either end during the time period, though it probaby wouldn't fish as well as other venues.

Will be back at Forster and any Sydney events next year for sure. Well done to the organisers, I reckon it went pretty good for their first shot at it!


----------



## grinner (May 15, 2008)

feel a bit sorry for dudes in areas outside central coast nsw and se qld. there are some mighty fine fishermen in other areas who probably cant make it to events. 
also a bit hard to expect someone from far away to fish well in your own backyard. put me in port phillip bay or sydney harbour and i couldnt catch a cold. 
intense congrats then to people like greg l who could obviously adapt.

to include the entire country you would have to have an on line event c,p and r.

i am sure this could be done relatively easily. design an on line unique brag matt, print it out with a date on it.
submit photos at the end of a weekend. distribute prizes from those sponsors weve been hearing about (whatever they are).

that way people like mcbigg and kangaroe and astro and barrabundy could clean up

cheers pete


----------



## MangoX (Feb 18, 2006)

had a long winded reply which I lost when I accidentally closed the window :?

I agree with most of Kens points and some of StevenM

for me

- live weigh ins are the only way to go. You would not believe how anti climatic it was to arrive on shore and have everyone just bugger off. Had to come back 4 hours later to find out results.
I arrived at 5.05 and was told its all over. No scoreboard, no pics.......no good.

- FFC more of a social comp. Not to be part of ABT qualifying round. (ABT run a bloody professional comp, harsh to compare with FFC)

- $100 entry for FFC way too much. Happy to attend another Forster AKFF gathering but will not pay for another FFC.

- Great to see Hobie dealers supporting guys wanting to travel. Hope next year it continues.

- Cant wait to see some teams form. Saw Team Sailing Scene on the water with some swanky shirts  .... when is Team High Rollers starting Kev ? ;-)

- more Syd rounds, south coast NSW and VIC. Happy to participate in bass comp as well.

- one day...... barra round ? 

cheers

Steve


----------



## Shorty (May 11, 2008)

StevenM said:


> 2/ Different dates for all comps no clashes of events. Having the KFT announce their comp and dates and then having the ABT announce the same dates is poor form.


I guess we the Joe blow public will never know the true story but the ABT only has a few dates on there very busy calender of events,, its not to far fetched to believe the KFT boys did a prempted strike and just "happened" to announce there dates on the same time as the gaps in the ABT schedule and try and block them,,,,

Anyway we will never know the truth but it backfired for which ever party only getting half the numbers they could have and generating half the publicity.


----------



## Sunhobie (Jun 22, 2006)

I am a Hobie Dealer so please consider my comments in that light. I didn't organise the ABT but helped out with a couple of the rounds and competed in some.

Obviously KFT lost me when they excluded the Mirage drive. From that moment on, the dates for the KFT became very irrelevant to me and I know they did for most of the Mirage fisherpeople I spoke to. That sentiment didn't change when the rule was modified. (Too late, the damage had been done.) The dates clashed, so be it. In reality, few would have attended both. Life is about choice. There were two choices. Most of the kayak fishermen in Australia chose neither one. What does that say?

I am not a bream fisherman but I thought it couldn't be hard. I was wrong. There is a specific skill to being a good bream fisherman. I need to learn it! I must admit, that at first, like many, I was a bit sceptical about the concept of catching 25cm poo chewers and making a competition about it, but now that I have had a crack at it, I can see what the fuss is about. It is addictive and a serious challenge. Those who were unable to attend their closest event really missed out on a valuable experience.

Live weigh-in is the only way to go if you want a serious fishing competition. I have seen brag mat photos with the nose of the fish 1cm from the end of the mat which had a huge sag in it. Live weigh-in is cut and dried.

The ABT is a fishing competition, not a social fishing meet with sponsor giveaways (I do know plenty about these, and they have their place. I have organised one every year for the last five years). The money you pay to compete in the ABT, goes into paying for the professional organisation that organises, conducts and supplies the equipment. The ABT is sustainable because it is self funding with a bit of sponsor support.

The supplied kayak idea for the GF allowed people to travel more easily from a long way away. (No kayak to lug onto a plane.) Remember that sponsors make these things happen. They are entitled to incorporate a bit of marketing.

Bass tournaments are harder to organise for a large number of people because many of the bass fisheries are located away from accomodation centres. A national fishing competition in anything other than Bream is difficult, due to the restricted habitats of other species.

I'd like next year to see a national kayak ABT with four rounds and a grand final.
Round 1 VIC snapper
Round 2 NSW Bass
Round 3 QLD barra
Round 4 ??? Bream

AND a grand final somewhere where bream jump on to the hooks!!!


----------



## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

> been my understanding the best fishing for Bream is in Winter.


Maybe in qld lazy but not anywhere else, bream down south go deep an slow down in winter, still there but much harder to tempt onto a lure. In saying that I don't have a problem fishing a comp in winter, everyone else still has the same conditions.



> So, this is your forum - let us know if we're being overprotective, underprotective, or about right.
> In particular, here are some potential options:


Red, i think as long as the organisers stuff stays within there aloted section let the post as much as they want, so option 2 for me. If they flood there section with usless sponsors threads people will get the s*&ts and not look in there.

I didn't have a problem with the yaks in the grand final they were different even to my older outback. For me it wouldn't have been a problem what yak as i have fished forster in the prolwer too and can tell you the fins make it easier for all not harder. In saying that it will probably change next year an everyone will fish out of there own yaks anyway. Can't see Hobie keep on supplying GF yaks that they then have to sell as demos etc.



> In Summary in regards to location &#8230; small fishing villages with nice estuaries and cheap accom turn Yak Fishers on. Glitzy hotels, traffic & big boat wash don't &#8230;. Our wives want to come along if we stay there


I agree with Lazy here, I stayed at the lakeside resort at forster in a spa cabin for a very reasonable offseason rate. My family had a great time relaxing on the forshore under a gum while I fished.

I really think locations are of huge importance and a lot of though needs to be put to them rather than sponsor exposure. I think the smaller holiday villages that are conductive to yak fishing are going to atract a better responce from the public for the sponsors anyway than highly populated areas where most people don't give a rats what the big tent in the park is all about.


----------



## deano (Nov 26, 2006)

I would have gone into the ABT tournament in Sydney but I didn't for two reasons - first, $100 was just too expensive to go into a comp like that ($50 entry + $50 membership) unless their were better prizes/prize money; secondly, the no-trolling rule lost me.

I'd definitely enter the next one if it was cheaper and/or if they weren't so proscriptive about whether you cast or troll the lure.


----------



## solatree (May 30, 2008)

Sunhobie said:


> I'd like next year to see a national kayak ABT with four rounds and a grand final.
> Round 1 VIC snapper
> Round 2 NSW Bass
> Round 3 QLD barra
> Round 4 ??? Bream


Well if its to be "National" - SA, NT, WA and Tas would need to be included so there needs to be a few more rounds. :? If its East Coast only - then obviously round 4 would be in Tas - I've heard they have great bream over there - even though the HOF bream sizes are dominated by SA. :twisted:


----------



## Crezz2704 (Mar 21, 2009)

well they said not too bag or disciminate on this thread, but to give an honest opinion.
some people have obviously got two minds about all the competitions, and are bagging them.

for me, i entered my first kayak comp.this year. Congratutulations to the KFT guys, I had a lot of fun.

a day of fun in the sun fishing from a yak and you get to walk away with a prize at the end.
what more could you want?

wish i could've gone in more comps.

im signing up to the ABT cant wait to join the crew.

cheers guys,

Crezz


----------



## Shorty (May 11, 2008)

Get stuck into them Daftee ,show them whose boss :lol:


----------



## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

Good work Daft, about time someone brought Red into line.....he's such a potty mouth. :shock: :lol:

Oh I better say something on topic......Why are tournaments always about Bass and Bream?......I reckon Catfish are very underrated as a sports fish. They have Catfish tournaments in the states why not have them here?


----------



## Bart70 (Jan 28, 2007)

ArWeTherYet said:


> Good work Daft, about time someone brought Red into line.....he's such a potty mouth. :shock: :lol:
> 
> Oh I better say something on topic......Why are tournaments always about Bass and Bream?......I reckon Catfish are very underrated as a sports fish. They have Catfish tournaments in the states why not have them here?


Hmmmm I can just see it now......

The Great 'Kingfisher Carp Comp'

Rounds in every mud encrusted algae-bloom'in inland waterway in the eastern states.....Grand final on Lake Curly Gherkin Canberra in supplied Kingfishers!! :lol:

Back in my shell now before I get modded!... ;-)

Bart70


----------



## Bart70 (Jan 28, 2007)

On a serious note though...

I was keen to partake in the ABT but timing was bad having moved up here recently and the schedule did not tie in well with work so decided to sit back and see how the comp thing panned out with a view to maybe getting serious next year (well as serious as I can get with my Bream skills!!).

Having not been to any of the comps I am not as qualified to comment as others, but I too was initially un-enthusiastic about live weigh ins but after observing the pros and cons both in this thread and others I am much more open to it.

One thing blatantly apparent from both comps was the level of comeraderie (sp?) and the friendships made and strengthened. I found myself reading reports and wishing I were there and then cursing work arrangements that prevented me from attending the next round.

This is what I hope stays in the comps....regardless of the comp type, sponsor, location, schedule I hope this does not change. Yak fisho's are known for their friendliness when they get together. This is what attracts me to get togethers with fellow yakkers.

As long as this atmosphere stays in the comps they will have my future interest.

Bart70


----------



## sockpuppet (Nov 6, 2007)

kraley said:


> this could well be the first time RP has been 'modded'. Mark your history books.....


See! See?!! I've been saying it for years. The man is evil. EVIL I SAY.
He only moved from canberra because he didn't have any lakes left to dynamite in the middle of the night.
He uses puppies as livebait!
He couldn't catch a cold in an ebola outbreak!
He thinks that 'drag' is what happens at the sydney marti gras, 'casting' is what you do to get actors for movies, and a 'soft plastic' is what happens when you put your credit card in the microwave.

Do you really think the WIND pushed Daftwullie's kayak off the top of his car? Where was Red then eh?
YakN00b managed to loose three rods/reels around Coochiemudlo. Guess who he was fishing with at the time?!

The other week he even... MMmf grmff.. rwrrrrrff


----------



## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Back in your box Sockie.

Having done both photo & release, and livewells, I think I prefer the former.

There's no doubt that the latter is great theatre, and allows the organisers to put on a great show, but the requirement for a livewell, I reckon, will stop a reasonable proportion of socially-interested yakkers from entering.

Red.


----------



## bazzoo (Oct 17, 2006)

Ummm, just to stay "on topic ", ABT , ABT , ABT , ABT so far so good , i'm getting the feeling though that i'm gunna slip off the rails soon ,TITANIUM MAN DAFTY, wait ABT is GOOD , ABT is wholesome , ABT posts cause mods to grow a thick "Matt" of chest hair and develop balls of TITANIUM , Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha you Moderated who :?: :?: :?: , Paul , he he he he Yeah hes a cheeky bugger , You moderated RED :?: :?: :?: :?: :shock: :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: , and "The ANT " :?: :?: :shock: :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: , and ha ha ha ha ha KENNNIE CUTTELFISH :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: , I love it , ha ha ha ha ha i seeee it but i doooont believe it , wait ABT is great , so ya cant touch me i'm on topic , gotta give the lad G for gutz kids :lol: :lol: :lol: , but oohhhh boy are you gunna pay :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Shorty (May 11, 2008)

Daftee for Australian of the year 8) , oh and ABT and KFT 8)

I am looking forward to hearing from the organisers of KFT and ABT/Hobie for there views cause if they are not around we are all wasteing our breat,,umm fingers,,,,


----------



## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

> Ummm, just to stay "on topic ", ABT , ABT , ABT , ABT so far so good , i'm getting the feeling though that i'm gunna slip off the rails soon ,TITANIUM MAN DAFTY, wait ABT is GOOD , ABT is wholesome , ABT posts cause mods to grow a thick "Matt" of chest hair and develop balls of TITANIUM , Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha you Moderated who :?: :?: :?: , Paul , he he he he Yeah hes a cheeky bugger , You moderated RED :?: :?: :?: :?: :shock: :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: , and "The ANT " :?: :?: :shock: :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: , and ha ha ha ha ha KENNNIE CUTTELFISH :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: , I love it , ha ha ha ha ha i seeee it but i doooont believe it , wait ABT is great , so ya cant touch me i'm on topic , gotta give the lad G for gutz kids :lol: :lol: :lol: , but oohhhh boy are you gunna pay :lol: :lol: :lol:


Baz i'm going to have to have a chat with your nubiles, they have given you too many of the red ones again.

Anyway back to topic so I don't get modded :twisted: fibreglass kayaks are for wuss's ;-)



> Oh I better say something on topic......Why are tournaments always about Bass and Bream?......I reckon Catfish are very underrated as a sports fish. They have Catfish tournaments in the states why not have them here?


I reckon given that people have already commented on how tough catching said bass an bream can be in a comp is the reason why. To go out with the best tide and just on dusk as you pick the conditions and catch a bream is one thing, to be said you will fish now and catch the biggest bream you can find, thats where it gets difficult an skill comes into. Thats why they don't allow trolling, anybody can paddle along with a lure out the back an hook fish the comps are designed to be a test of your knowledge first and then skill. Ok for us mugs theres an element of luck, but to be able to repeat that luck every comp is were it dissapears an skill comes in.

Cheers Dave


----------



## Dodge (Oct 12, 2005)

redphoenix said:


> There's no doubt that the latter is great theatre, and allows the organisers to put on a great show, but the requirement for a livewell, I reckon, will stop a reasonable proportion of socially-interested yakkers from entering.


Think Red is right on the money with this comment, and have done the live well scene in power boats in the past..

I have no great interest in comp fishing any more, but think to just suggest picture taking comps are purely social is not the case in my opinion, as the serious blokes are certainly as evident as the social butterflies at these events

I had no interest in any of the comps discussed so far, but did attend the Sweetwater 2 day convention at Wivenhoe Dam last October [I was a butterfly entrant]....it had 60 odd canoes and yaks both pedal and paddle, and was very well and professionally run, and seemed difficult to cheat with the competitors tag cards having to be handed in each night and then returned [modified] for the next days entry pics, and magnificent safety tag procedures in place....and any rules imposed for the event were enforced rigourously

The keen competitors had ample opportunity to take on rivals with similar approach to the comp, while we butterflies did the social/fish scene to the degree we wished....and for the once in a blue moon competitor no outlays required for live wells etc

Can understand the interest in bream comps being right across the country but are not my scene.... and live wells, and pic and release both have their place if done properly


----------



## Biggles (Jan 6, 2008)

StevenM said:


> Richo
> 
> mate I loved the Wivenhoe Kayak Convention.
> 
> ...


You are a wise man brother 8) , measure boards all went back to the organisers, here is a link to a pic, hope it works http://www.kft.net.au/images/gallery/rnd3/lg9.jpg

cya

Al

ps I'll give ya a ring later next week.


----------



## paffoh (Aug 24, 2006)

Thats a cool device, I like it!

A good way for the FFC to avoid problems next time is to let everyone know in advance what the measuring device will be ( And perhaps what will be in the goodie bag ), hardly able to drive home and bang one up unless I know in advance. Also wouldnt cost the FFC more than say, $200 to make 60 of these themselves that could also be returned for future events ( Or future fisheries sticker updates ). Dont get me wrong, loved the event but still think traditional brag mats or measuring stickers are no place on a kayak for C, P, R competition ( For accuracy anyway ), something solid like a ruler.

Downpipe would be great but its girth might not be up to a massive lizzard or big bream ( Whiting though! )

I nominate Roberta as 12 month crash test dummy, 12 months is a long time to get it right. ;-)


----------



## Rodman (Jun 29, 2007)

arpie said:


> ...Re the livewell/photo debate - both will work if a suitable platform for the pic is available...Even Steve Field lost a fish in his livewell on Day 1 of the FFC ...... so if he couldn't keep his fish alive & well ......??? Yesterday, Jon missed out on submitting 2 thumper whiting that weren't deemed 'healthy enough' in his livewell, that would have won the daily comp (if not overall final) of the estuary whiting comp!...


Steve said he lost his fish because it was hooked too deep, and would have died even if released. I don't believe the livewell was a factor in this. Plenty of tournament bream anglers will tell you of fish that had the line cut, then they found a jighead at the bottom of the livewell when it was emptied.

I see a lot of fish lengths quoted with a pic showing the upper fork of the tail bent down horizontal to gain maximum length - the Gatesy Stretch. This is not how fisheries tell you it should be done, and there is the possibility that an unfair advantage could be obtained this way. Most comps require fish to be legal to the fork for this reason, even if local regulations are to the tip. However, going by weight is a much better measure of a fish.

Bream do exceptionally well in a livewell. Snapper do not, and I assume the same is true of many other species (whiting?), so CPR for those species that don't.


----------



## BIGKEV (Aug 18, 2007)

The ABT event is exactly that ... an ABT event it is not an event set up just for kayakers, it is a variation on a tried, tested and successful tounament model. The only change to the rules between us and the boaties was the use of Kayaks. Even in the ABT grand final, the guys all fish out of identically kitted out boats instead of their own, similar to the ABT kayak final. I liked the fact that everybody fished out of the same boats for the GF, it meant nobody had an advantage of having a better set up yak and you had to rely on your fishing skills to do well.

This series has not been developed just for kayakers, we have just been lucky enough to be included in a more competitive version of what we do on the weekends (go fishing). No amount of debate is going to change the livewell issue as this is also a standard item on the ABT rounds in the power boats. If you don't like the livewell thing or don't want to set one up then don't bother entering the comp. It is just another challenge for your day of fishing i.e. keeping your catch alive.

Initially I wasn't sold on the idea, as the thought of chasing poo eating bream didn't really turn me on. I give it a shot and got myself hooked on the whole thing and personally can't wait till next year. It is obviously not everyone's cup of tea and that is fine, but I think people need to realise that the ABT in particular set a benchmark with tournament fishing in Australia may years ago and they are unlikely to change any of the basic concepts to suit us. We are the ones who will need to adapt to this comp style.

There are some serious dollars being thrown around the ABT events throughout Australia these days and I'm pretty sure the first couple of years saw some pretty crap prize money for these events. If Kayak fishing in a tournament sense grows as fast as kayak fishing in general then the prize money in years to come will certainly escalate and if it does you will most certainly see an increase in competitors whether they fish regularly from a kayak or not. I can't see the social aspect of the ABT/Hobie series remaining for very long if there is an increase in the more competetive bream anglers entering kayak rounds and I also reckon it won't be long before kayaks feature in the popular ABT TV shows.

As for locations. I would hate to be the one to try and name a good location for this type of event. The basic principles required for a location would need to include - A launch location with enough parking for organisers/competitors with good bream fishing within a 5klm radius, nearby accomodation and a local council that is willing to support such an event.

As for species. The ABT launched on the back of bream tounaments and I can see that they are doing the same at the moment for the kayaks. Maybe in time as popularity grows we may see other species involved.

As for timing. The way I understand it as explained by Steve Mogan was that The ABT Kayak series this year was quickly thrown together after the initial proposal by Hobie for teh event and mashed in with the rest of the ABT events for the year. They incorporated Forster as a 4th round and set the final here shortly after with the intent of getting more people to make a full week of it and fish in the FFC overall. I'm sure that next year with a bit more planning and the advantage of hindsight we may see a more evenly distributed set of qualifying rounds. If you look at your ABT calendar of events you will see also that there are bugger all bream tournaments set in Queensland during the winter spawning run. To my way of thinking this is because they have tried to create more of a challenge for the anglers involved and make you work harder for your fish. These events were also based around similar tidal stages (runout) which work on a monthly/fortnightly basis which would not help the cause of the single parents who had their kids on these particular weekends.

I was impressed with the professionalism that the ABT events were run with and can't really see where they would necessarily need to change things. I hope to be able to get involed with the KFT events also but I belive that there are also a couple more on the radar for the greater Brisbane area including the Sweetwater event at Wivenhoe and also the snapper on plastics event at Redcliffe.

Once again thanks to all involved in the organisation of these things and I hope they continue to grow. I'm certain that if the kayak fishing community as a whole continue to show the same level of support for these things they will be huge in no time.

Kev


----------



## Nativeman (Sep 6, 2005)

arpie said:


> Boondooma is a terrific Fresh Water bass lake with campsites available right down to the waters edge. Just wheel your yak to the edge. I was there a few years back when a bass comp was on. Terrific!! Have been there about 5 times now & just love it.





arpie said:


> some of the Gold coast dams could be a goer too - not sure if there is camping right on the water tho! :? I would still angle for Boondooma


Somerset dam has the best camping on the water and is close to Brisbane. It has some big bass but I doubt whether the ABT rules- meaning live weigh in could ever apply to a kayak comp. I think a 30l Livewell would have trouble keeping two 40 cm plus Bass alive, that's why I think a catch, photo release format is a better option for a bass comp. If live weigh in was not an option ABT might not ever run with bass if this was the case.

KFT maybe the first to run a full blown bass series as they have the catch, photo, release already in place and in worked well for there bream series. If they do I'll be there.

Cheers


----------



## vertigrator (Jul 25, 2006)

Here's my 2 cents for the ABT event.

*Definately has to be bream.*
Just about all states have bream, they are a top sportsfish, a challenge to catch, and they last well in a live well. ABT have the formula honed from years of experience. In the future maybe have separate events for barra, bass and trout as one off events.

*Include more states*
I suggest rounds in WA, SA, Tas, Vic, NSW & Qld. Then a grand final with supplied yaks in NSW or Vic. I think that's pretty much how they run it for the boating bream comps in ABT. If I was to get in the GF I wouldn't want to cart my yak over to the mainland if there was an option to use a supplied yak. I'm amazed at the tiny bream that were caught in the comps. The 4 fish bag weights are about the same weight as one horse bream from the Derwent and some of the other systems in Tasmania. Since Tassie got included in the ABT series (boat) a number of records got smashed - watch out SA. 

*other thoughts and questions*
Were there any guidelines on what to use as a livewell? I think there are strict guidelines for the boating comps as to the setup and size of the well. It seems like most people used an esky. Did you use a pump or aerator with it or just change the water manually every couple of hours?

I know a bunch of guys in Tassie who do the ABT boating comps and the social scene is still a very large component of why they do it. So I wouldn't be worried about it getting too serious. I've been to a couple of the weigh-ins and seen the spectacle and had a yarn with the guys to see how their day went. There's a real emphasis on sharing info on fishing techniques which is great.

I agree with a couple of other posts that all venues need to be chosen wisely to allow good fishing within a 5km radius, so probably more of the smaller systems that the boating events don't go to.

Cheers
Vert


----------



## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

> Somerset dam has the best camping on the water and is close to Brisbane. It has some big bass but I doubt whether the ABT rules- meaning live weigh in could ever apply to a kayak comp. I think a 30l Livewell would have trouble keeping two 40 cm plus Bass alive,


Sel, you need to get hold of a good yak livewell an give it a go, 2 x 40cm bass all day no worries they will be very alive a kicking at the end. I have had a 55cm flatty, 2 bream and 2 whiting in mine for several hours till I finished fishing no problems. The hobie wells keep running water over the fish all day, you could set one of these up yourself with a bilge pump and esky and a bit of 20mm pipe.

Cheers Dave


----------



## Sweetwater (May 27, 2007)

Hi Folks. Some great comments above tho not sure what the modding was for??. Can guarantee that 2 x 50cm bass in a 30 litre livewell all day is a death sentence for the fish. Just cut their throats & be done with it.

Will be continuing with catch > measure > digital pic > release for the 2009 Wivenhoe Convention. It may not suit everyone, but as the organiser, its our call & its also out responsibility to try to make everyone as safe as posible. I'm not inclined to add 30kg+ to anyone's yak. Some are hovering on weight limit recommendations, I'd hate to be the cause of someone going over that limit & get into trouble, noting that the event I run is in sweetwater (less bouyant than rustwater).

Also I'm not keen to add additional cost of buying/making a livewell to those who would like to attend. We're trying to encourage newbies to fishing & kayaking/canoeing, not chase them away with another cost.

Lastly, I'm not keen to have fish die needlessly when its possible to get the fish back in the water almost immediately after a pic. I acknowlege it can be a juggling act, one that's the same for everyone so its a level playing field. If it is too hard I'd encourage anglers to fish in pairs to assist, also a great safety feature.

Thanks for the feedback / comments & the opportunity to leave a comment. Hope to see some AKFF members at Wivenhoe again this September.

Cheers,

Fitzy..

PS- I'm looking at other venues for more sweetwater based comps. Nothing in concrete so won't say any more....


----------



## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

OK, so heres my 2 cents. For the record I only fished the Sydney ABT event.

When I first heard there was going to be some professionally organised kayak fishing events I thought 'ho-hum, that's not my scene'. However the more I read and looked into it, the more that the idea appealed. Not so much for 'winning the event' , but more for checking out how comps are run and seeing how everyone approaches them.

To be honest I liked the format and the concept of the KFT event structure moreso than the ABT event. What I mean is that, I would prefer to fish in a more 'social' comp where theres a good mix of sponsors and prizes (some randomly drawn) so that everyone has a good day on the water and most competitors walk away with something from the day. The cost of entry (KFT's $40 as opposed to the ABT's $100) also was more in line with my way of thinking (why would I pay $100 just to try and catch a bream when I can do it for nothing...and I hate catching bream :? ). I'm definitely not a 'serious/competition' style fisho so the whole 'competition/livewell/weigh in' thing didn't spin my wheels at all.

As mentioned, if I'd been interested in the competition side of things, or trying to 'qualify' for Grand Finals etc I may have had a different perception and the ABT $100 entry may not have been such an issue. Similarly, if there were more Sydney events (the only area I'm likley to travel to) then the $50 ABT 'joining fee' may have been better value, and I probably would have fished in more/most of them. I'm not interested or able ($$$) to travel interstate for a day or 2 to fish the other rounds as some other guys managed to do and as such I thought that the $50 ABT joining fee was a bit of a scam, despite the few goodies that it entitled me to (cap, badge, brochures etc)

The ABT event in Sydney was undoubtedly very well run and a good social day out. Being the first event there was definitely some 'novelty factor' and a lot of guys just turned up to see what the fuss was about. The good natured banter and advice on the water was a highlight, but I'm not sure whether this will continue in future events (as more guys get 'serious' about comp fishing and start protecting their secrets). I'd like to hope that the spirit and good natured banter will remain but time will tell. The 'novelty' of trying to also keep my catch alive in my dodgy esky / livewell setup was also fun and I'm happy to report that my 2 x 24.5cm bream stayed alive right until the ABT guys told me to 'throw them back in mate - they're too small'   . Despite my initial concerns and scepticism, I did have a good time and would enter another event of this type (albeit with a bit more preperation and an effective measuring device next time)

I also expressed concern over the date clashes between KFT and ABT as I could imagine that maybe 50% of each field would like to fish in the 'other' event given the opportunity. The KFT events were targeting too small a catchment - having 3 events all in the same location wasn't a good move - spread the locations out more and you'll do better.

As for the FFC - this didnt interest me at all because of the 1) distance from Sydney and 2) extended time frame of the event. I've also fished Wallis Lake before and had possibly the worst fishing experience ever (floating weed and LOTS of it). A one or 2 day (max) event would be fine but a week-long event...no thanks.

Looking forward to the future...what would I like to see?

2 different styles of events - one purely 'competition' focussed (ABT) and one 'social' focussed (KFT). At least 2-3 events per state (QLD, NSW, VIC). Entry fee around $50-$60 per event. Some prizes for 'best fishos' but also some prizes for random entrants (more small prizes is better than one big prize). These events need to work closely with the forum as most kayak fishos get their information on AKFF, so some sort of discount/incentive for AKFF members would also be good. I think Bream events are the only way to go....as others have said, they're available nationally and you DO need skill to catch them (big ones anyway).

What I don't want to see.

"Pro-fishermen' (eg ABT boating guys) entering kayak competitions. It's obvious that these guys are shit-hot fishos but to me, jumping out of their souped up tourny boats and into a kayak just to win another event is against the 'spirit' of what kayak fishing is all about. When I saw the names of a few guys in the Forster comp I cringed (as it was obvious what they were trying to do). Not sure how this can be addressed in future.

I'm not a fan of 'Wildcard' entries into a grand final. Sure sponsors are entitled to their moment in the sun, and sponsors entries into qualifying events are fine, but if you want to be in the GF then you should have to earn your way there.

Anyway tournament organisers - I hope you take on board my comments and I look forward to entering some of these events in future.

By the way.... I'm now recruiting for Team Can't Fish 2010 ...who wants to be in my team?


----------



## Cid (Nov 14, 2005)

Value for money in your 2 cents there, Davey. ;-) Good response.

Ok, where to start? Firstly I'll admit that I've been a big fan of the ABT thing for a few years now and started competing as a non-boater in the powerboat events back in 2006. Since then I've asked various organisers of bream tournament events "when are ya gonna do one of these for kayaks?' Well finally the time came and we see two tournaments start up simultaneously. Great news for us yakkers even though the date clash was a bit of a bummer.

*So ABT/Hobie or KFT?* For me, I'd go the ABT/Hobie path as the KFT event seems more of a social event rather than a full on comp. And good on them for having that aspect, if that's what they're out to acheive. I'm not saying it isn't competitive (and the fishos that attended attest to that fact) but where everyone gets a prize, it's not my cup of tea. I prefer pitting my skills against the other anglers as well as those bloody bream :? and trying to get to that top spot on the day. ABT/Hobie also had the years of running a professional outfit up their sleeves and anyone who attended will agree that the whole show was a great spectacle. I hope that the future will see these two events co-exist and to each their own on how competitive or how relaxed you want to be.

*Locations of events?* I'm sure that now the first season has been completed, we'll see the organisers crunching numbers and working out a schedule for the next lot of comps. As much as there are calls to have a fully national comp, it's still comes down to finances and how much 'value' the organisers will get for their efforts. Numbers of attendees is the critical factor and sometimes they may not see the value of attending say Perth, if they'll only get 25-30 entrants. Sure, we may hear on the forums that more will turn up but when it comes to the crunch the numbers are always down on what is predicted. I know of yakkers that said 'Nah, not this year, but next year I'll give it a crack.' Well next year may never come around if there isn't the necessary support. Remember, ABT are based in Qld and lugging all the gear around and setting it up is hard work. The same goes for the KFT guys. Is it really viable for them to choof off down to Tassie and have 30 guys pay $40 each for a total return of 1200 bucks?

*Sponsorship?* That last sentence sums up why we need to have sponsorship in these events. Without the support from the kayak and fishing industry, these events can't be run. Some see them as evil, capitalist swines but we need their support just as much as they need ours. If a company is willing to throw some money at growing our sport, then good on them and I don't begrudge them trying to get something out of it either. They scratch our back, we scratch theirs. Some people don't like the commercial aspect and that's fine too, they can just avoid these events. Simple.

*Livewells vs CPR?* I prefer the Livewell and as far as bream comps go, the fish have an excellent survival rate and two fish will easily be fine at the end of the day, even in an esky without an aerator, as long as water is changed frequently. During the ABT/Hobie Grand Final at Forster, my first fish of the day was 24.8mm. I'm sure that if it'd been CPR, I could've fudged the position of the fish in the photo slightly to make it seem as if the fish was 25cms. I wouldn't do that but by having a live weigh-in, that element of 'fudging' is eliminated straight away.

Plus the crowds like a live weigh-in also. Everyone was feeling Scott Lovigs nervousness as he held top spot and had to wait while everyone else weighed-in and challenged his position. Lots of "Oohs' and 'Ahhs' all round.

Another note on livewells. A few have stated that they felt many people didn't compete due to the livewell component of the ABT/Hobie rounds. Numerous posts were made about this and enough was said about the fact that a simple esky that is topped up every half hour or so was fine. It sounds like a bit of a cop-out to me to use this excuse and if people were unsure, a quick PM to any of the well known bream fishos on this site could of set them straight.

*Kayaks?* I think for this year, Hobie did a great job of supplying a kayak for everyone in the Grand Final. Comments have been made that competitors should have been able to use there own kayak. Well, I'm sure that if Hobie had said use your own yak, we'd have had a similar amount of people complaining about how they'll have to lug there kayaks interstate! This seasons calendar was whipped up pretty quickly and I think Hobie were trying to make it as easy for everyone involved to be able to fish with minimal effort. Maybe next year it'll be a 'use your own yak' event, or maybe even a 'your choice: your own or one of ours'. Time will tell.

*ABT Bream Guns* How would it be if the ABT said 'No Kayak Fishos allowed in any of the Power Boat events?' Aaarrgghhh, imagine the outcry! :shock: Russel Babekuhl (one of the ABT guns) fished at Forster and did he win? Nope. Sure, he came 4th but he was still beaten by 3 others, oone of them being our own Mr. Raley. The ABT top guys have fished for years honing their expertise and I relish the challenge of fishing against them. And whose to say they haven't been fishing out of a kayak for years or have always wanted to? I'd love to be up against Tim Morgan or Chris Wright. And if they do decide to jump into a yak, they'll need to quickly adapt to the very different style that we have to fish. Even Russel stated how hard it was fishing from a yak, so it's definitely not a sure thing if these guys enter.

One thing that will disappear slightly, is the easy going camaraderie that comes with normal yak fishing. As the stakes go up, those that are still keen to fish in these events, will maybe not take so kindly to someone jumping onto the end of the rack that your fishing or cutting in on the row of pontoons and jetties ahead of you. On day 2 in Forster, Dave, Ken and I were all drifting the same flats, laughing and joking while fishing. Most of the laughing and joking was on Dave when he got busted up big time, but it was still fun. ;-) I'm hoping a lot of this will remain but I'm sure just a tiny bit (and only a tiny bit) of the fun will be replaced by competitiveness.

When it comes down to it, as the old fable goes, you can't please everybody and there will always be pro's and con's for any event. There is room for all and I hope whichever format you choose, you just remember to have fun while you're doing it. Happy yakkin', everyone!

cheers,
Cid


----------



## ScottLovig (Aug 7, 2006)

My 2 cents......... Beware, dealer speak with forked tongue ;-)

*Live wells are the only way to go, hands down.* Measuring fish (fumbling fish) with ruler/brag mat while taking photo and including key tag, then filling out form on the water was *not * a good time had by all. It was inaccurate and subject to argument.

Bream as the only species is the way to go. They live in all states, so its consistant.

*I would like to fish bass too but only as a dedicated bass series*. To the guys who want to fish bass ABT I think if you make an effort to fish bream and then push the case you will probaly be taken seriously. Better to be "johny on the spot" rather than be missinterperated as hecklers on the sidelines.

I like the idea of the other ABT pros entering? Lets take them on and at the same time learn from them. We have more to gain.

Yes, lets spread out the dates and widen the net to include other states. I think Victoria is obvious and the organisers know it. I'm looking forward to seeing the 2010 sched. Its a safe bet it will be improved on.

It's sure to be bigger next year and I'm sure lots of dealers will help provide yaks to traveling fishos. Talk to your dealers.

I had way too much fun and will be back.

Cheers

Scott


----------



## SteveMorgan (Mar 11, 2009)

Guys,

Well done keeping this input on the rails .... I've been through a decade of these discussions (about fishing competitions) and this one's about as civil as it gets.

I'm the co-founder of ABT, and reading some of the posts here, it's probably the time to outline what ABT does and why.

Personally, I'm a marine scientist-turned-publisher and my business is the Fishing Monthly group of magazines (which has over 20 full time staff). Spinning off that is ABT (3 full time staff) and AFC (no full time staff).

After witnessing well run tournament spectacles in the USA (I went to an FLW event in the late nineties) I partnered with Steve Bain to set up ABT. We'd both been involved with 'volunteer committees' and decided that wasn't the best way to go. Usefully, my postgraduate degree is in the physiology of fish stress. Serendipitous, for sure&#8230;.. Steve Bain moved on five years ago.

And, although ABT is a P/L company, its existence is as a tool for the development of the fishing and boating industry. A decade ago, there was no pathway for an Aussie kid to follow to get to the top of fishing, as a sport. Sure, there were the various Sportsfishing and GFAA-style clubs and affiliation, but to me, they were functional, but slow-moving.

Nowdays, anglers can see AFC (the Australian Fishing Championships) on TV, get the desire to BE that guy on the TV and are able to follow the pathway to actually do it. You qualify for the AFC TV show by excelling at the ABT bream, bass and barra events, which are open to everyone. And plenty of guys have done it in the last few years.

In the power-boat events, that pathway is augmented by a 'random-draw' system for all qualifying events, where a boat-owning "Boater" is randomly drawn with a "Non-boater" each competition day. Being a non-boater in events is THE best way to accelerate your learning curve in tournament fishing. No amount of magazines, internet sites or TV shows will teach you as quickly as spending a day in a boat with someone who has done it for a while. At the end of several events as a non-boater, you have more on-water tournament-boat experience than most boat dealers in the country and have probably experienced more fishing styles than most of the Boaters on the circuit!

For those with a 'Commercial Comp' bugbear, rest-assured that the ABT is run at minimal profit - after all, it is an industry-development tool. Also, the three full time staff are paid normal wages and we run out of an office with all of the usual overheads of business - from superannuation to car registrations and the wonderfully expensive Public Liability Insurance (PLI).

Delving further into this, ABT generates about a million dollars turnover a year. 1/5 of this is cash from sponsors and the balance is entry fees for tournaments. In regular BASS and BREAM qualifiers, the entry fees are paid back at an average of 90%. As Kayak sponsorship and angler numbers grow, the kayak paybacks will proportionally increase.

Moving to the recently completed Hobie series, you're correct in assuming that it was put together at short notice. Steve Fields lobbed at the ABT offices and sold us on the concept while totally underwriting the first season around three weeks before our annual Tournament Angler Guide went to print (the TAG is mailed to all financial members in January each year - or can be bought at newsagents). Picking Forster as an ideal Grand Final venue, we worked backwards with dates for qualifiers to fit them in between the TAG release and the Final.

Obviously, anyone who has looked at the 100-event-strong Tournament Calendar would see that the dates we used revolved around our availability and gaps. The clashing dates with KFT were unfortunate and only evident after we'd released our calendar.

ABT has a history of working with other tournament organisations - while they have lasted - to ensure that avoidable date clashes are avoided. We believe that those with a competitive bent should be able to exercise their desires as often as they wish, and alternative events to ABT help this cause.

As organisers, we appreciate the breadth of input here, and particularly value comments from those who have participated. It's one thing to sit in an office and write the rules and another to fish under them. As such, I'm glad the Steve Fields was organised enough to get on the water himself and has his own ideas for improvements.

My comments - and in no particular order:
• ABT builds events on solid foundations. Expect a slow and strong growth of events rather than a boom-and-bust rapid expansion. Remember that it's taken 10 years to get to where the current power-boating events are today.
• Kayak BREAMers wanting to improve their skills should definitely fish a local BREAM Qualifier as a non-boater. The current crop of kayak competitors definitely have the physical and mental skills required to really improve their breaming, and a variety of experience will accelerate that curve.
• Likewise, I'd love some of the BREAM Pros to have a crack at the kayak comps - they'd learn a lot about planning their days and fishing skinny water from kayaks &#8230;. And what better way to alert a sponsor to kayak fishing than a sponsored angler to harp on about their experiences! Also, when you beat Tim Morgan in a Kayak bream event, imagine the bragging rights? Just don't expect to beat him in the sausage-eating-comp.
• Bream is the foundation of any National series. What else is available all over the country and fits in a livewell? Other tournaments will spawn from a successful bream series.
• Thanks to the AKFF guys for organising this discussion - and for their support of all kayak tournaments to date.
• Thanks to the anglers, sponsors and dealers who have embraced the concept. You're just like the power-boat boys a decade ago. I guarantee you'll get more serious, but will still have heaps of fun.

Cheers,

Steve Morgan
Fishing Monthly Group/ABT.


----------



## vertigrator (Jul 25, 2006)

Great stuff Steve. 8) I can see why the ABT is such a successful series of events, you guys know what you're doing and do it well.

I have been thinking about fishing as a non-boater in one of the ABT events in Tassie. So I'll keep an eye on your calendar for next year. I've enjoyed the spectacle of the weigh-ins at the events on the Derwent. ;-) 8)

I imagine we don't have the numbers in Tassie to get an ABT bream event here yet, but as you say "slow and strong growth of events..." it may happen in time, just as the boating event has in the last couple of years.

Cheers
Craig


----------



## Shorty (May 11, 2008)

I was hopeing the KFT guys (Organisers) gave us some imput like Hobie/ABT have done 8)

I don't have a ferret in the race but there would be some interest i would imagine.


----------



## Shorty (May 11, 2008)

Maybe for Bass you need a live net,,i heard in passing from a guy that its common in the U.K to keep fish in the net and you would tow it behind you i would imagine.

BTW > Another idea might be to hire a live well off Hobie for the qualfying it you don't have esky/live well,, a deposit would be required i guess and hobie get them back at the end of each day,,we know theres 26 around anyway.,,oh just thought,,would fit most Hobies but not other craft i don't think.


----------



## Guest (Mar 30, 2009)

The mirage drive rule at kft was thankfully dropped from the feedback all the paddlers and peddlers gave stating that their kayaks were custom designed for their personal fishing use around the mirage drive. I think the hobie only rule at the abt GF should be dropped for the same reason that everyone's kayaks are designed the way they like them and we should be able to use them. Thankfully Ocean kayak didnt put the same stipulation for round 3 of kft otherwise I would not have entered the kft as I like my own yak. I dont think discriminating rules like these worked well for either party, and cost both comps some potential entries.

I think that the abt was much better location wise as it had a variety. I found it boring fishing the gold coast same locations at kft, and would like to see a variety over the 3 rounds.

I would like to see a mixed species comp. eg some bass included as well as bream, and maybe throw some flathead in there also

Both comps had great prizes, and above all great work to both parties


----------



## Guest (Mar 30, 2009)

On entry fee: at first I thought fees were a little steep to, but when I received my ABT member pack suddenly I felt a lot better. There wasn't $50 worth of goods in it, but I certainly got a lot out of it. And not many people who entered these comps walked away with nothing either. The finalists all walked away with price packs that were worth $50 retail at least. Entry fee wasn't so much the issue for me, but more so events were so close, which made the costs add up quickly.

If there was anything I'd change (other than schedule), it would be a couple of the venues. I wasn't overly excited by what I saw at Sunshine coast, and even less interested in the gold coast nerang river venue (for a few reasons). Neither places are destinations I'd go for a fishing holiday and if I'm paying to fish (comp or not) it would sit better if it was a venue I was keen to fish. I'm not a 'nightlife' kind of guy either, so the touristy attractions of both places do nothing for me. I doubt I'd attend events held at either of these venues again. I didn't have this opinion before I fished these spots - I formed that opinion after doing so. You don't know till you try...



> I really really really hate going to the Gold Coast. In fact I think if you have a good look at the membership of AKFF and the places we like to take our kayaks on holiday the Gold Coast is about as diametrically opposed as you can get. We like places with peace & quiet & a nice unpolluted estuary. Somewhere without big cruisers going past every 5 minutes almost swamping us with bow waves.
> 
> In the same vein Moolooba was a piss poor location for the Sunny Coast. The Maroochy River is a nicer estuary imo, The Noosa River even better still and Caloundra/Nthn Bribie Passage is pretty damn good too. But at least ABT had one on the Sunny coast &#8230;why oh why did all 3 KFT comps have to be in the same place? As North Brisbanite I am always going to the Sunny Coast first.


Agreed. Noosa river > mooloolah and nerang, for several reasons.

Overall I thought the ABT Hobie tourney was a blast. As I said, the only thing I'd change is a couple of the venues and the time slots (oh.. and using FFC rules for an event didn't work in practice as well as it did on paper either).


----------



## Sunhobie (Jun 22, 2006)

did my post about livewells get flicked Mods??


----------



## SteveFields (Mar 21, 2006)

Many thanks for the feedback. 
Some items noted, some dismissed. 
Last year when we set this up, I had already started working on the 09/10 season. Details will be out soon. That's to all who attended.


----------



## Flyrot (Oct 28, 2008)

I thought the KFT events ( I did 2) were great. For a first up series to get around 40 punters each time was great, and I know a lot of them travelled some distance to be there. The organisers seemed to have everything covered from the water bottles to the string to attach the measuring board to your Yak. Parking and Yak access were great and I couldn't think of a better start point to give access to canals/ river, Marinas (?????) and flats. Over the years I have pulled many Bream around 37fl from within a 1.5km radius from the start line, and at all times of the year and all on lures of course!

Clashes happen, I missed the first KFT due to a boat tournament clash and on March 15th I had the choice of ABT/Hobie, the KFT and a boat tournament. I know the schedules are busy but I wish Steve Morgan hadn't used my exam timetable to schedule most of the ABT events!!

Bad points? None come to mind. Possibly though the results could have been posted on the website a bit quicker and maybe a full results list and a ranking over all three events.

Well done to the organisers of _ALL_ the tournaments for making them happen, and giving a now boatless Bream junkie something to do, roll on next series!! 

Angus


----------



## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

> • Kayak BREAMers wanting to improve their skills should definitely fish a local BREAM Qualifier as a non-boater. The current crop of kayak competitors definitely have the physical and mental skills required to really improve their breaming, and a variety of experience will accelerate that curve.


I'll second this for all yakers, I have fished a few ABT events and more of the team based berkley and squidgy comps. To get out on a boat with some of the top breamers and see what you do the same, whats different and some of the little differences they do that means the difference between a I got a lot of bites or I got a lot of fish.

Cheers Dave


----------



## kftadmin (Oct 23, 2008)

Hi Guys, cheers for everyone submitting their feedback. As we have mentioned before we appreciate constructive criticism and will use it to improve future events. I will attempt to answer a few questions that were repeatedly asked in this thread.

In regards to location we selected the Gold Coast for all three rounds purely on one single basis, to help educate anglers in targeting Bream by allowing them to focus on their strategies rather than put on the back foot each time the venue changed.

In regards to the dates I can assure everyone that we began our project over a year ago and all the planning was done on nights and weekends as Justin and myself work full time and my commitments with family etc. KFT published the dates quite early and made a date change to one round due to requests around that Christmas / New Year period.

In regards to measure board or live well we will continue to support the catch photo release style for a number of reasons, safety of kayaker, safety of fish and no a fuss factor of measure board. A clear photo with the nose of the fish at the end of the board is as clear as it gets! Cheating is nil because of two reasons, each board has an individual number assigned to each board on the morning of the comp and being a rigid board there is no fudge factor that can arise from using a Brag Mat or similar.

In regards to nationwide events we are open to feedback, however we wish to crawl before we walk and perfect the tournaments.

In regards to other species we will be doing a Bass series so stay tuned.

Some comments made about each tournament trying to knock each other out of the scene are ludicrous and there is more than enough room for two very different styles of tournaments, the aim at KFT is not to have a tournament the same as ABT as they are no doubt well versed in the tournament scene and hats off to them for increasing the public awareness tournament fishing. Our style will always be fun, informative with a sprinkle of friendly competitiveness thrown in.

Thanks again to all those have submitted constructive criticism and to AKFF for setting up the dedicated sub forums for both events.

Cheers,
Shane


----------



## wayner (Jan 7, 2009)

well i had a good time in the kayak series with a win in sydney and two big breams and will be doing the comp again next year.here are some of my throughts
1..saturday for the comps as there is a lot less boat traffic on a saturday than on a sunday.
2..if prefish bans come in for the kayaks ,make it a 2km radius from launch point and day before the comp prefish allowed only so any interstate fishers can get an idea of the waters .
3..bring in the pro angler upgrade for those who want to bet on themselves 
4.. more two day comps maybe.
5..the $50 abt fee is cheap i think for the work that these guys do behind the secne to make sure everything runs like clockwork.
6..locations ,thats a hard one as a lot of interstate people flew in for the comps and had kayaks already prearranged it looks like future locations must be near a airport so people dont have to hire cars and then drive for a coupleof hours as well.the cost for attending will then begin to get out of hand.
7..will be happy if nothing changes at all as had a great time this time around.

wayne


----------



## justinp (Jul 9, 2007)

I had a great time fishing the Sydney round in horrible conditions I might add, I got to put some faces to names and all in all I think that it was run very professionally, the live weigh in is the only way to go when it comes to competitive fishing, too many what ifs arise with the photo comps, the only time i can think of a photo comp would be for a newbie day where people can come and learn new tactics and such off more seasoned competitors to see if they want to upgrade to fishing in a more competitive arena and this would only be viable under the umbrella of akff as a social day, i intended to fish the ffc, two things stopped me, 1 family things got in the way, (however if I really wanted too I could have gotten out of it), 2 the idea that you can qualify for a bream grand final by catching flathead and whiting just didnt seem right to me, so I didnt go, I think that Sydney deserves two or more rounds in the coming years, we have such a vast array of waterways to fish limiting it to just one event when Queensland as a state had two events seemed unfair to the nsw anglers not to mention those from other states that missed out all together, im not counting the ffc event of course for reasons previously mentioned, the whole wildcard thing needs to go, people should make the final on there own merits, (no offence Ken and Roberta), your services to the kayaking industry are outstanding, just dont believe in giving away spots when there are people maybe who just missed out by a few grams here and there, as a whole i believe these events are here to stay and will just get better and better, cheers Justin.


----------



## GregL (Jul 27, 2008)

Ok, just before this gets locked, I just want to firstly say that IMO, the only improvement that could be made to the ABT series is simply to add more rounds.

But I would like to voice my very strong objection to Pre-fish bans, if indeed they are being considered for next year.
Firstly, I know that pre-fish bans are common place in boat events.
BUT, in a boat, you can spend 5 minutes at WOT, and be several km's away from where you weren't finding fish and in a brand new spot.
You can't do that in a yak when you're against the clock.
Pre-fishing gives those who have made the effort to travel to the events an opportunity to explore the venue and put themselves on a slightly more even level with those who are local, and remember rounds 1 and 2 were won by locals.
I'm not afraid to say that I have found my pre-fish's to be very beneficial, and I would also say that I would see pre-fish bans as a sure way of putting some people off travelling to fish enourmous venues that they have never even seen before, and thus it would possibly be detrimental to the expansion of numbers getting involved in the series.

I guess that some will say that its not possible for everyone to pre-fish, and that would be a fair call, but ultimately, it the events remain on Sunday's then there is a good chance that many WILL be able to pre-fish on Saturdays....
As I write this, more and more things keep popping into my head about why I would hate to see a pre-fish ban come into place, but as it hasn't actually been announced, I will hold my peace for the time being...
I really hope that others are with me on this one.
Regards,
Greg


----------



## Biggles (Jan 6, 2008)

kftadmin said:


> In regards to other species we will be doing a Bass series so stay tuned.


Oooooh Giddeup, where do we sign?

Al


----------

