# Reels



## Cammers (May 18, 2008)

Talking to a mate of mine last night about a fishing trip he is going on up into the gulf later on this year. Talk got around to tackle and gear etc, and he said he was looking for a reel, in the 3500-4000 series that will be spooled with 30lb braid. I don't knowing anything about the kind of fish he will be targeting and the water he is fishing, so I could not offer much in the way of a recommendation. So I was wondering if anyone here can suggest a reel that would suit him (he lives in mt isa, so fishes the lake there regularly) for his trip and for fishing his local lake. The budget is $100-$150.

Any advice from you guys with experience in this type of fishing would be great ;-) .

Cam


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## CatfishKeith (Apr 17, 2009)

I would mind finding out as well, I've been thing about the Diawa Catalina 4500h or the Shimano Saragosa but they tend to be between $400 -$650 a bit more than 100-150.

I'm not sure is you need to spend that much on a reel but it depends on what you're targeting. If it's Kings, Mackerel, tuna etc I don't think a $150 reel is going to be good enough, as you need line capacity and a good drag systems and something that is a little water and corrosion resistant. But if you're targeting Snapper then perhaps a $150 reel is going to be ok.

I don't know what is the best way to go, be interested on seeing how this tread develops


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## diabolical (Mar 30, 2008)

The ABU Soron STX40 would be right up there. $170-180

I think a few members have this reel and I look forward to hearing what they think of it.


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## shamozzle (Nov 18, 2007)

If he could possibly fork out another $100 or so then the Daiwa Oceano 4500J is excellent value for money. Retails for the $200-$250 mark though.


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## medongc (May 18, 2009)

I have to say I agree with occy. I am by any measure a novice fisherman, however the notion that one cannot realistically catch pelagics with a reel of under $150 is - by evidence alone - utterly ridiculous. People have been catching pelagics for a *long time* with reels that would make the lower k-mart models seem like engineering miracles.

I have caught numerous 70+ cm tuna and mackerel from the rocks on a $50 rodd (Penn Powerstick) and a $50 reel (Penn Prestige). As a combo, they sold for $79. At no point did the reel 'wobble' or the rod not function.

Remember that the gear you need is:

1. A stick with guides that run along it, that has a grip that will not hurt your hands.
2. A reel that will has a gear ratio to suit your style of fishing (i.e. don't try to use chromes with an alvey) and has a decent drag.
3. Line
4. Good knots (most important)
5. Something that a fish will bite on at the end.

The biggest fish caught by anyone on this forum, according the Saltwater Hall of Fame, was a 78kg black marlin that was caught on a *$79 BCF combo*.

So basically, I humbly implore you not to fall into the marketing trap. The more expensive reels are pretty and marginally nicer to use, but in the vast majority of cases will not change whether or not you will get fish from sea to kayak/boat/land/beach.

That said, rust does seem to be a problem when saltwater fishing, and it may be worth looking at a reel that has anti-rust coating and seals. A good model would be the Shimano Symetre FI (last years model) which can be bought for ±$100 on eBay.

I hope I have not stood on too many toes,

Alexander


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## clarkey (Jan 13, 2009)

PENN SPINFISH around $150 to $170 holds 300m of 30lb waterproof drag that is smooth and built to take salt water treatment


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## Swamp (Nov 20, 2007)

I second Clarkey on the penns, Penn make some good reels around that price. Also check out a Daiwa Exceller Plus 4000 this is a great reel for that price.


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## diabolical (Mar 30, 2008)

medongc said:


> I have to say I agree with occy. I am by any measure a novice fisherman, however the notion that one cannot realistically catch pelagics with a reel of under $150 is - by evidence alone - utterly ridiculous. People have been catching pelagics for a *long time* with reels that would make the lower k-mart models seem like engineering miracles.
> 
> I have caught numerous 70+ cm tuna and mackerel from the rocks on a $50 rodd (Penn Powerstick) and a $50 reel (Penn Prestige). As a combo, they sold for $79. At no point did the reel 'wobble' or the rod not function.
> 
> ...


(With fingers firmly pushed into ears) La la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la...........................


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## diabolical (Mar 30, 2008)

I could live in a house worth $150,000

I could drive a car worth $1000

I could paddle a yak that cost $600

I CHOOSE NOT TO ;-)


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## medongc (May 18, 2009)

Envious as I am that you can get a 1.5m house without a mortgage...

The real point here is about marginal return on investment, that is to say that for every extra dollar one spends on a good (be it a car, home or spinning reel) the marginal or per-dollar increase in utility (i.e. the benefit the purchaser receives) decreases as the price rises.

In brief: the difference in utility you might see between a $15 barbie reel and a $50 dollar Shimano Sienna would probably be huge. The difference in utility is also large between a $50 Sienna and a $120 Symetre, yet _not as large_. As you keep spending more on the reel, the MR, or 'bang-for-your-additional-buck' decreases steadily, until the only immediately noticeable difference between a Stradic and a Stella is that it 'spins a bit more smoothly', despite the fact they are several hundred dollars apart.

That said, when we make consumption decisions, we are mindful (theoretically...) of the opportunity cost of our purchases: what do I have to forgo if i buy this item? So, when deciding between a $120 Symetre and a $1000 Stella, we will only buy the Stella if the extra smoothness/shininess/whatever is preferable to being able to buy, say, $900 worth of steak, beer, lures and petrol. For some (e.g., the wealthy or the fishing keenos), the opportunity cost may be perceived as small and they will rationally choose the Stella. Others would prefer to spend the other $900 on what they would view as more important things. Both are rational and are maximizing their respective utilities.

This falls apart when people/marketing starts (no offense intended) misinforming you that it is physically improbable that a cheaper (say $150) reel will do the tasks you desire in the reel (e.g. catch mackerel) . You perceive that the marginal return - bang for your extra dollar - is much higher than it actually is at the $150 dollar mark, and hence make a rational decision that would be considered an irrational one if you were perhaps more correctly informed. Hence, you miss out on maximizing the utility you can derive from your bank balance, which is a bit sad.

Anyway, I'm off to buy a bunch of $25 SX40s - I hear you can't catch bream without them...

;-)


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## CatfishKeith (Apr 17, 2009)

Interesting thread but very emotional. So i'll add to it....  Yes I can get from A to B in my old 1967 HR but does it compare to my 2009 Camry or my stinking 2008 Barina... hmm no. Yes there still some HRs around, not many but, does that mean they last a life time, hmm...no. Just because I saw HRs in the Bathurst 500 (or whatever it's called these days) doesn't mean a HR is a racing car (I tried oh yes I tried but those backalight timing gears kept blowing or the brakes would burn out)

So translation, yes a $2 reel will catch you a fish I use to catch fish 45 years ago with the reels available then , I've even seen a few of them recently hanging on the wall of garages, back then there was no choice they were the best you could get.

I've had a few reels in my time Daiwa, Mitchell, Ryobi, Shimano, Abu and Alvey and they all have died except the Ryobi (1975) and the Alvey (1980) both centre pin reels both perfect today and both highly productive albeit the Alvey is heavy and those new graphite ones look the bomb.

Tally to Date

Daiwa - stripped gears[/*]
Daiwa (2) - Snapped rod-2-reel attachment[/*]
Shimano - punch over bail arm eventually fell apart[/*]
Mitchell- burst its guts[/*]
ABU - top of the line at the time, most probably the longest lasting reel died of corrosion [/*]

Outside of the Alveys the reels were about a 2000 style reels

Today's entry level stuff from the majors is just light years better than the reel I've used in the past. But none of these new reels are going to last a "life time" whatever that is, as when I was a much younger person it meant 100 years then is was 20 yrs now it's about 3-5 (about the same you get for murder these days)

Would I go back to my old reels? Yes I caught fish on them; yes I even caught mackerel, monster trout, serious Barra and huge Taylor on them... no I wouldn't want that nightmare clunky reels that wouldn't turn smoothly that locked up under pressure. Drag systems that needed hours of work after every trip to make them run smoothly. The constant rebuilding of the reels. Are you kidding me....

Back to the question at hand, I come from the NT and when I fish in the NT I used my Abu (which was about a 2000 maybe less size) and 6kg Graphite rod (the rod I bought in a pawn shop for $5, lucky me as they were at the time just on the market and they cost much more than $5) and about 4kg line. Whenever I went to visit my cousins I would take the rod and reel combo, they would laugh as they pulled out their 50kg hand lines and enough weight the sink the Titanic. We would go out fishing I would catch a boat load with my girly rod and reel and waited the rest of the day for them to catch a few fish.

This weekend I ended up at Jervis Bay tonnes of fish about and hundreds of people fishing but only two people catching fish (I was just watching as I'm not into car park fishing). Except for the two people who were catching fish everyone was using elephant guns huge reels with fencing wire thick mono (most probably 30lb) and rods thick enough the use as sign posts. The two catching the fish where using long, thin and very whippy rods, 1000 size reels and maybe 3lb line at best and it goes without saying no weight.

So where is this heading 3500 - 4000 size reels with 30lb braid in the Gulf, Yes I know you will find people out there with that and you never know they may even catch a fish of two. Do you really need that size reel and line to fish the Gulf for various types of snapper or barra.... I don't think so but then again what If you're after GT or other game fish then maybe so.

But reel size is not realy a factor in this and not all reels of similar style/size are the same, some will carry 240yds of 30lb and some will carry 300 - 450 yards of 30lb thats a big difference if the fish you're after has decided to head for the horizon.

Some have basic drag systems which will burn or stick under the pressure of a serious fish. Don't know how many times on the forum I'm going to read big thumper broke me off. Is that bitten off or the drag failed under pressure? Better to have been bitten not broken off.

Line recovery rate for high speed lure tossing. Most of the cheeper reels have 4:x ratios sure you can turn to handle faster but there isnt any sence of control with your hands in a blur and the sweat pouring off your borough after each cast of the lure, phew I'm exhausted thinking about it. Or buy an even bigger daimeter reel with is encumbered weight but not much use for flicking lures.

And for Kayaking some are sealed and water resistant with sealed bearings, drags and machined Marine Grade Bronze gearing. Excelent corrosion protection albeit not perfict

Some have cast metal bodies which over time becomes brittle. Some use a lot of plastics and worst still plastics in the guts of the mechanism which is trouble just waiting for the right moment. There is a big difference between stamped and cast metal and a big difference between cast metal and machined metal. Some reel even use marine grade bronze and not just ferious based metals wow what an idea to use something that is corrosion resistant in a saltwater reel, who would have thought it.. ;-) more expensive than plastic but defiantly better than plastic..

To me a 3000 - 4000 reel implies big, fast and powerful fish that are going to put up a good fight and take some serious line or long casts for land based fishing such as beach and rock. If that's not what you're looking for then why are you hunting rabbits with an elephant gun, sure you will catch a few fish, you don't even need a rod and reel to catch a few fish, but maybe not the numbers you though you should be catching.

But for the most part let's not pretend that a 3000- 4000 size reel for $40 or $200 dollars is the same or nearly the same as a 3000 -4000 size reel for $1000 reel. Thats like saying my Barina is comparable to my Toyota Camry, what because its got 4 wheels and some seats and it gets me from A to B? it just ain't and it's not about the bling or more money than sense and it's not about false economic arguments and diminishing rates of return or ROI . It's about the right tool for the job and yes I can open a paint tin with a butter knife but is it the best way to open the paint tin and is it really cheaper? Not if you start damaging or breaking the knives and wife wont be happy either.

As for price buy what you can afford, but its a mistake to make price your primary buying descision. That said I would be going down in size both in line and reel.


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## Cammers (May 18, 2008)

Thanks guys for all of your very enthusiastic replies and advice, once again AKFF proves its worth!

thanks again

cam


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