# Lip grips and release



## MrFaulty (May 15, 2008)

Okay, this is probably going to cause some arguements, but here goes!

I see a lot of photos on this and other forums of people using lip grips and also fish being put on dry (and presumably often hot) surfaces for photos before being released; now, granted, any fish released has an infinitely better chance of survival than one wich is smacked on the head and put in the esky, but shouldn't we be trying to optimise the fishes chances of survival.

From my (limited) research, the use of any form of lip grips are harmful to fish, especially if the fish is large and is effectively hung up by the lip - that can be a lot of wait to place on the jaw/lip area and the mouth of a fish isn't designed for this. Also, with regard to placing the fish on dry surfaces, when I was growing up I watched a lot of videos where it was stressed that when handling a fish for release you should at least wet your hand or otherwise use a wet cloth so the slime coating is not damaged.

It appears to me that people are a little bit relaxed in their handling of fish destined for release; I would appreciate others thought/comments on this topic.


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## Squidder (Sep 2, 2005)

Your view is spot on IMO and fits very closely with how I feel. I used to use lip grips a lot on fish destined for release, and I'm not really proud of it. Lip grips damage fish's mouths. I think things have gotten a lot better wrt fish being hung by the lips for photos, but there is still a lot of lip grip use which I think is unecessary. Gentle bottom lip gripping with the thumb (bass) or gloved thumb (cod) is a lot better for the fish, or as you mentioned being cradled with wet hands. I've also noticed a trend recently of guys using little midget lip grips for small species like bream and whiting - wtf is with that?

As if lip grips aren't bad enough, worse is the number of photos you see of people using lip grips WITHOUT the lanyard around their wrist. Fish that kick out of people hands and swim off with lip grips still attached are condemned to a long slow death. You hear about it happening all the time. Often the people describing it are more upset about losing their lip grips!! :?


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## scater (Nov 24, 2007)

On my boat lip grips are used exclusively to control the business end while de-hooking. For this they are a superb tool. Never to be used for hanging a fish up or landing one though.


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## wetaline2 (Oct 28, 2011)

I'm totally in agreement with you guys! They are evil things they are, and only to be used if you plan to keep a fish to take home. If you want to release a fish use your hands, or a towel. Lip grips damage the sensitive lining of a fishes mouth, and cause a lot of damage. Anyone posting pictures of fish hanging off lip grips that they intend to release should be ashamed at themselves.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2012)

Playing devils advocate here but isn't is a bit hypocritical to whine about damaging a fish's mouth with a holding device after sinking barbed hooks through bone or flesh to bring it to the side of the boat?

Personally don't own any, probably wouldn't use them if i did. Just another piece of junk to lug around. But definitely agree with the method of holding a fish's head arguement. The body should be supported and better still, the fish not removed from the water if you plan to release it. Lip gripping in any form without supporting the body is a no-no on any fish not destined for the table.


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## MrFaulty (May 15, 2008)

nezevic said:


> Playing devils advocate here but isn't is a bit hypocritical to whine about damaging a fish's mouth with a holding device after sinking barbed hooks through bone or flesh to bring it to the side of the boat?
> 
> Personally don't own any, probably wouldn't use them if i did. Just another piece of junk to lug around. But definitely agree with the method of holding a fish's head arguement. The body should be supported and better still, the fish not removed from the water if you plan to release it. Lip gripping in any form without supporting the body is a no-no on any fish not destined for the table.


I understand what you are saying and dont disagree, just it's a bit difficult to cacth a fish without a hook whereas the lip grips are unecessary - I may be seen as hypocritical but I want to keep enjoying my fishing whilst giving the fish the best chance of survival afterwards so I can catch it again next time


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## wetaline2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Hear what your saying, but it's all about minimising our impact. So yes a small hole in the lip is unaviodable if using lures, but will allow fish to continue to feed and recover quickly.
However a tear in the internal lining of a fish's mouth caused by lip grips does far more damage because it affects a fish's ability to feed and hence the time it takes to recover.


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## WayneD (Jul 11, 2006)

I use them on toothy critters, what other suggestions do you have that I can use to control a fish like mackeral and sharks that I am releasing? I think this debate is all a storm in a teacup personally. You stick a hook through the fish's mouth for a 5 minute fight and then put lip grips in for a minute at max while you get the hooks out and a quick photo. I reckon the hooks do more damage and the fight puts more stress on a fish than using lip grippers on them, personally. (Of course I have no evidence to back this up.)


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## Squidder (Sep 2, 2005)

Fair point on the toothies Wayne and Sam - I think it's reasonable when angler safety is involved. I think the big issue is the use of grips for freshwater natives and smaller saltwater species. Plenty of better alternatives for handling them.


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## RyanW (Sep 15, 2012)

I think there are a lot of ppl who are un educated wen it comes to using lip grips they have to support the body of the fish so there is less strain on the mouth parts ! But to use them on fish where it is plainly not needed like bream and other small fish is just stupid a wet tee towel does the trick just fine to sub due the smaller fish here's hopefully some ppl take note and change there ways!!


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## Beekeeper (Aug 20, 2011)

If you observed me when I catch a fish, you would see that if it's a reasonably small fish ie around 60cm or under, holding the 30lb leader, I slide the fish over the side and up onto the skirt in front of me&#8230; the skirt is usually at least damp, if not wet. Those who use SIK's will know this, although black skirts do warm up from the sun.

If it's a large fish, either the net or gaff is used&#8230; sometimes if the fish's mouth is conveniently open, I use the lip-grips&#8230; but mostly fish don't oblige, so either the net or gaff come into play. I prefer not to use nets if using hard-body lures, as loose hooks can hook up on the net, and fish can be lost right then.

In order that I can handle the fish safely, and not impale myself with lure hooks, the lip-grips then come into play&#8230; with treble-hooks or singles on hard-body lures, attempting to extract hooks from a bucking fish without using pliers is asking for trouble&#8230; the same applies to fish with severe dental-ware&#8230; however, lots of times single hooks on jigs can easily be removed without pliers on fish like bream and snapper.

With the hooks successfully out, a netted fish is then removed from the net, the net placed elsewhere and measuring the fish comes next&#8230; this is performed by holding the lip-grips in the left hand and cradling the fish under the belly with the right.

If pictures are to be taken, and the fish is still pretty feisty, I secure the fish to the yak by clipping the lip-grips over either the skirt-loop or the bungy cord ahead of me. If a smaller fish has quietened down, I don't bother&#8230; just photo it laying there.

Sometimes, depending on circumstances, the measuring comes last, and then the fish is slipped gently over the side, lip-grips removed, and if needed, swished back and forth until it takes off and swims away.

With some larger fish, especially snapper, the small lip-grips just don't fit over the lower jaw, so a bigger set is used.

I use lip-grips purely because it's much safer for me to do so&#8230; handling fish as often as I do, prior to using grips, I seemed to always have cuts and nicks to my hands&#8230; a little flick from even a tiny snapper, can slice your hand quite easily&#8230; since using the grips, I seldom have to use the first-aid kit I carry with me&#8230; and I don't have to miss out on trips due to hands not being healed.

If a shark, tuna or mackerel is caught, I try to gaff them from inside the mouth&#8230; then apply the lip-grips for a firm hold. Not having a fish with lots of sharp teeth secured from the head can lead to those teeth chopping at everything within reach&#8230; usually me!

I release most of the fish I catch, and take only what I need for the immediate future&#8230; I know that they will be there when I next need a feed from the sea.

My answer to what I consider to be ill-informed advice emanating from this thread so far is&#8230; if you don't want to hurt the fish&#8230; don't go fishing&#8230; hooks damage fish&#8230; in my opinion, much more than lip-grips.

If you can still find fault with the way I handle fish, go for it! I really don't give a rat's arse! I'll just keep on keeping on!

Sweetly&#8230; Jimbo


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## Barrabundy (Sep 29, 2008)

I agree with the opening post. I just watched Paul Burt's fishing section after the news today and there was lots of footage of people holding up fish, some still trashing, using lip grips. Not blaming the presenter but it's not a good look and I personally think education has a lot to do with it.

I used to do the same until I read stuff on this forum and changed my practices. I still use them but only on fish I'm going to take home or those with sharp teeth. Many fish can be released by unhooking with a pair of pliers while they are still in the water beside the kayak.


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## Beekeeper (Aug 20, 2011)

Humans are the only animal that actually build fences to keep other animals within, with the express purpose of fattening them up and eventually killing them, so we can eat them!

Do you eat meat in any form, poultry etc?

You name it, we kill it and eat it.

Don't bullshit me about using lip-grips on fish prior to letting them go!

Jimbo


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## Beekeeper (Aug 20, 2011)

One thing I don't do is hold the fish up by the lip-grips... the grips are just there to control the fish's head.

Jimbo


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## Barrabundy (Sep 29, 2008)

cjbfisher said:


> http://www.peta.org/
> 
> Just sayin'


I just had a look at that, first time ever. While my views may be biased because of my lifestyle and occupation, I couldn't help thinking they are just too far.

I totally agree with the principles of ethical treatment of animals but stop short of agreeing we shouldn't be eating them, I disagree completely.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2012)

Sorry off topic but...



> Beekeeper wrote:
> Humans are the only animal that actually build fences to keep other animals within, with the express purpose of fattening them up and eventually killing them, so we can eat them!





> Herding Aphids: How 'Farmer' Ants Keep Control Of Their Food
> 
> ScienceDaily (Oct. 11, 2007) - Chemicals on ants' feet tranquilise and subdue colonies of aphids, keeping them close-by as a ready source of food, says new research. The study throws new light on the complex relationship between ants and the colonies of aphids whose sugary secretions the ants eat.
> 
> ...


Back on topic. Not having a shot at anyone for using lip grips. I personally can't be bothered using them. As i said in my first post, the issue for me is the method of supporting a fish for release. It shouldn't be dangled by the head but rather cradled. If you use a boga to control the head end, so be it. I tend to use a tail rope the same way.


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## ryan (May 30, 2012)

yeah beekeeper i'm with you most fish are extremely hardy and will survive from things that any other creature would die from in seconds whilst i dont condone grabbing something like a barra straight up by the lips i think it is one of the few fish that often dies from this.
lip grips can also be quite essential in bringing a fish back to life in my opinion and i might be wrong on pelagics but ive done it with small sharks have the fish lip gripped and swim it next to the yak before releasing them would give them a huge boost if there realy tired obviously this does pose a risk of a shark taking it from you but just try to do it quick and get some water through there gills before letting them goin the past ive seen gaffed fish released and swim away quite happily ive seen a bream that was on the beach for a few mins and a mate decided he didnt want it and swam it back to life even a mulloway hit by a boat prop or shark with a huge chunk missing from its top it had healed quite well and was fat and healthy

to my knowledge barra is the only fish that will die more often then not if lipgripped into the air


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## mackayaker (Aug 14, 2010)

Just Sayin'


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## ryan (May 30, 2012)

patwah said:


> ryan said:
> 
> 
> > to my knowledge barra is the only fish that will die more often then not if lipgripped into the air
> ...


just a rule that ive heard that barra have a very weak throat and neck i could be wrong but just what ive seen around


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## anselmo (Aug 26, 2008)

Squidder said:


> I've also noticed a trend recently of guys using little midget lip grips for small species like bream and whiting - wtf is with that?


Wusses



StevenM said:


> The uneducated and the tools and wanna be's do all the opposite


Fishing's now an accessory sport - hadn't you heard?
It's not about the fish you catch anymore, it's about the "stuff" you have


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## Barrabundy (Sep 29, 2008)

Lip grips have got to be better than pliers though, seen that a few times.


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

patwah said:


> Beekeeper said:
> 
> 
> > Don't bullshit me about using lip-grips on fish prior to letting them go!
> ...


I think Paddy is on the money here. The distinction regarding treatment is made on whether it is a keeper or a release. If unsure treat as a release.

1. Treat them gently (until you're _sure_ it is a keeper). If you are not sure (could require a measurement, or lengthy de-hooking) then support and a wet surface (tea towel etc) are important factors, as is not lifting them up by lip grips. BTW, surely lifting them by leader alone with a hook in them is likely to cause far more damage than the fight did.

2. If you are sure it is a keeper, lift 'em by anything and dispatch 'em quickly (priest, ike jime, or cutting the throat). If I bring a fish to the yak that is definitely a keeper, I try to get bungy tethered lip grips in ASAP (sometimes it is gaff or net first though). More than once this has saved the catch after it has leapt off the yak, only to be pulled up by the bungy tether.

The point made about using lip grips on bream/whiting/non toothy fish is a good one. *Totally unnecessary.* Here are a few that you *have to use lip grips or a net on:*

[/quote]









*Bruus (Daniel) holding a 43 cm snapper with lip grips (for consumption). Even at this size you wouldn't want to be putting a finger in there. They have powerful crab crushing jaws.*










*Beekeeper posing with an 89 cm Jewie before release . Note the wet hands and support from both the hand and the skirt. It swam away happily after two minutes out of the water *(we tried & tried to re-catch it, but all in vain :lol: ). You would *not* be sticking your fingers into even a Jewies mouth...










*No place for fingers, whether the fish is to be kept or released*

Nor here










or here










*School mackeral (kept)*










*Estuary cod hand mangler, and equally dangerous finger-shredding gill rakers (ask me how I know :shock: )*










*This one would crush finger bones!*

trev


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

I havent used gripper in years. Never liked using them as they seemed to make a mess of the mouth, especially flat head, bloody things would go ballistic as soon as you removed them from the water.
Now days if Im going to keep a fish I either gaff it, or if too small for that just drag it out of the water and dispatch ASAP. If I'm going to release a fish I dont tend to take it out of the water and just unhook it with the pliers and let it swim away with out touching.
Prefer not to use trebs, but still do occasionally.


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## Dodge (Oct 12, 2005)

anselmo said:


> Fishing's now an accessory sport - hadn't you heard?
> It's not about the fish you catch anymore, it's about the "stuff" you have


Agree with this comment, bought a pair when I first got the yak and did not like them after 2 trips so gave them immediately and so resorted to methods used for many years beforehand ie; net, wet rag, gaff, gill or mouth grip with hands.



ArWeTherYet said:


> I havent used gripper in years. Never liked using them as they seemed to make a mess of the mouth, especially flat head, bloody things would go ballistic as soon as you removed them from the water.


As above.


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## Ado (Mar 31, 2008)

I've never owned a pair. I felt inadequate. Now I find I'm leading edge.
I single handedly made Dunlop Volleys fashionable too after two decades of trying. That was last year though.
I'm working on fuzzy dice.


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## Beekeeper (Aug 20, 2011)

Ado said:


> I've never owned a pair. I felt inadequate. Now I find I'm leading edge.
> I single handedly made Dunlop Volleys fashionable too after two decades of trying. That was last year though.
> I'm working on fuzzy dice.


I recently noticed that I still have a pair of Dunlop Volleys still sadly awaiting their next game of squash (last one was approximately 17 years ago)  ... but I just can't force myself to bin them... too damn mean, I guess.

I'm pleased to see that your inadequacy has been replaced by leading edge aspirations or better 8) ... but the fuzzy dice has me a trifle concerned!  :?

Jimbo


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## Barrabundy (Sep 29, 2008)

Well I'm going fishing tomorrow and, after reading this topic, left my l grips where they hang in the cupboard.


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## Funchy (Dec 3, 2011)

I have recently had to rethink my use of lip grips after losing them to my first Jack that kicked as I was reviving him. All thoughts of the fishes wellbeing for nothing. I think I will still use them but am very much now aware of how I use them. Only using them to control the business end is now my priority with the main concern supporting the weight of the fish. Herd lesson to learn, couldn't give a sh!t about the loss of the grips, just felt real bad for that fish.


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## mackayaker (Aug 14, 2010)

Beekeeper said:


> Ado said:
> 
> 
> > I've never owned a pair. I felt inadequate. Now I find I'm leading edge.
> ...


I find the grippers useful with Flatties but try not to use them on small fish or fish I am going to release, especially Barra. I also find the steel capped dunlop volleys are great and wear them everyday at work ;-)

Cheers Scotty


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## MrFaulty (May 15, 2008)

Reading the posts, I would agree, that using the lip grips when supporting the fish sounds ok, its mainly the "hanging" practice which is a real problem (IMO).

I would also liek to say thanks for the constructive comments and the seriousness that most people are discusing this topic with without getting abusive; the same thread was deleted from another forum where apparently free speech is being phased out!

Keep up the good "work"!


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## wetaline2 (Oct 28, 2011)

MrFaulty said:


> the same thread was deleted from another forum where apparently free speech is being phased out


Yeah I saw your thread over there and how short it lasted before you got slammed by the mods! Some people can be a bit narrow-minded when it comes to valid points of discussion and supposedly open forums [mod edit - no need to mention the other forum's name].

And it's good to see Barrabunday has joined the ranks of us that don't use lip grips. It's good to see this topic raising awareness of some of the issues people quite often don't think of and having a positive outcome.
Oh and yeah I agree that if a fish is destined for the pan then lip grips may be used at the discretion of the angler.


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