# What makes the perfect fishing kayak?



## Guest (Jun 23, 2013)

Occy is this market research or for private means? Is the information being relayed back to C-Kayak?


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## scater (Nov 24, 2007)

I'd be much more inclined to offer my opinions to C-Kayaks, sorry Occy, if this wasn't clearly market research thinly disguised as a discussion. Ask openly on behalf of your employer how they can better serve the market and I reckon you'll get better responses than trying to slyly prompt a discussion.


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2013)

Occy, I asked a simple question as your intent could be seen as ambiguous being a commercially established member. A simple "Nah it's for interest sake" would have sufficed rather than a diatribe about how unfair the forum is. I didn't report the thread. There doesn't seem much point in reporting it to myself. Now that you have finished carrying on, i'd like to invite everyone to participate in the thread in the manner you intended.


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## john316 (Jan 15, 2009)

simple answer... the kayak youv'e got.

the longer answer depends on where and how you fish. The guys up north all seem to heap scorn on what I use because mine surfs like pig (they say and they would know better than I as I don't surf mine). As much as I would love a bit of SA glass down here it would sit in the shed gathering dust as I don't need its type of abilities.

Horses for courses, but I love my Hobie A.I.

cheers

John


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## 0ccy (Jun 23, 2013)

Personally i like hobies


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## RekFix (Dec 30, 2011)

Have to agree with John.

Horses for courses. Look at the Pro angler and Stealth, both great but worlds apart


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## richo23 (May 17, 2009)

I reckon the perfect kayak evolves with your abilities and fishing interests, and budget plays a little part as well.
As my kayak fishing started to concentrate mostly freshwater the Outback became a little large for my needs so I downsized to the Revo 11.
Then I started to explore really skinny creeks and rather than damage the Revo rudder and mirage drive I bought the Venus 11(as well).
Having a love of open water paddling I bought the Stealth Fisha and loved it for the last couple of years but I needed a little more speed and to challenge my abilities I now have a Stealth Toura.
Am I looking for the perfect kayak or just buying what suits my needs at the time? Who knows but I have a shed full of kayaks all different and all have my specific requirements covered.
Richo.

Ps: Good topic Occy , I will follow this with interest in the way it was intended.


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## Ado (Mar 31, 2008)

Unfortunately, Occy, that's the rub of the green. The downside of having a commercial affliation is that people will be naturally suspiscious of your motives from time to time. I think this is just one of those times because what you are asking could be of commercial benefit. You of all people know this site well enough to appreciate the high level of commercial suspicion. You will now need to be extra careful to stay off the sensitive com detection radar.

That being said, I think it's a great poll and would of great interest. I hope you get decent responses despite the tone that you set with your reply post.


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## Yogi1965 (Mar 27, 2012)

Any research that makes this great sport of ours better is ok in my books doesn't matter who is asking commercial operators or not as to the kayak as others have said they should be comfortable and stable with a few in built hatches, rod holders and good storage.


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## scater (Nov 24, 2007)

Come on Paul, you've included "good customer service/backup support" in a poll on what makes a perfect fishing kayak. As you say you've been a member here forever but you've never posted up something like this before, and now you're in the payroll it just happens to pique your interest? C-kayaks has a history of trying this sort of thing here too. Remember tonygriffiths? I'm sure most don't seeings as how he lasted about 12 posts before being banned. For the life of me I don't understand why companies try things like this. Look at the way stealth has built a solid reputation as part of this community, by supporting events and seeking feedback through genuine means.


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## Buck (Jan 4, 2012)

I have both a stealth and a Hobie. While I love both of them I soon realised that I have a bad back, bad paddling style and bad upper body strength. The Hobie fixed all these problems for me.


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## troutfisher (Jan 25, 2009)

If this happened to be a thread seeking information for commercial reasons, then if a better kayak was the result, that would be beaut. But people have different needs from their kayak. I find my hobie outback provides good stability, I have bought amas and a sail which work well when moving against a tide even when tacking. While I don't worry about electronic paraphernalia I think it is useful if kayaks are designed to have anchor points for fish finders etc.


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## koich (Jul 25, 2007)

I voted for the option "Reputation of manufacturer/distributor"


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

Paul

It's an impossible question surely? The Fisha 550, the AI, and the Barracuda all match up for me as the perfect fishing yak if I have to select from reality. Nothing common between them.

If its theoretical I can give a brief to any manufacturer who will listen, blatant beg that your commercial contacts get on to this, I want :

Weight maxing out at 18 kg. carbon and exotics not needed and I don't wish to pay for them, but vacuum bagging would gain marks.
I want a performance ski front end, from cockpit to nose. The catch must be tight, paddle cutaways a must at the catch.
A flat bucket SES style would suit fish handling, but drains will need thought.
But stability from the rear end, and maybe flat under the cockpit or even convex, with short chines under the cockpit to shore up secondary stability.
Adjustable seating position, happy if you cater or the long legs and heavy, as long as I can get the seat forward to keep the nose down.
Must have rod chute/fish hatch. With the above it won't fit forward so needs to be behind the paddler.
I want a full size day hatch behind the paddler, in front of the rod chute, with a water bladder accessory.
Standard system, withing the day hatch for ace expires such as FF GPS and SS with logical battery allowance.
In the bucket between the feet.knees a small hatch (really small) for fist aid kit, flares, car keys, mobile.
Something like 5m to 5.5 m long.
Rudder needed, over the bum probably to clear the rod chute, then allow the rudder to kick clear of the water for the days that paddle control grabs me.

Then I want a performance version, cause this will end up about 58 cm wide, second version for weirdos like me and max 50 cm. If they insist on adding a mirage drive that's cool, but I'll want a paddle version too.

If they'd like some further guidance there are a couple of beginner skis on the market that I old show them.

Must have some old drafting pens around here somewhere...


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## cheaterparts (Jul 3, 2010)

a stable - and fast yak would be good but I would like a sealed cold storeage area for the catch that doesn't fit in my 25 lt easy 
about 1.3 meters long would do it


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

327 replies so far, not a bad haul on a poll.
It does point out that we all need different thing and ideally we would have 2 or 3 yaks each.
I just don't think the perfect yak is possible. I think I have found the best suited to me in my Barracuda but I still wish it was a touch narrower without changing the stability. It goes over a wave much better than my scupper pro but with a wave behind it, the scupper pro was a lot easier to keep straight. Is this the squared off back, the fact that it is a little shorter or just the general shape of the hull. 
Compromise seems to be what it is all about.


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## Scott (Aug 29, 2005)

I like the sounds of Dru's ideal yak. I also think Keza is right. I could easily down size the fleet i currently have. I would keep the AI, the 550 and the loon for skinny water. Between the 550 and the AI i would have most bases covered. The 550 is a great boat for a paddle for enjoyment and a serious 1 or two rods and a hand full of lures/livebait fishing machine. It is fine for most of the surf launches i am ever going to do.

The AI in Adventure mode would suit my breaming, trouting and generally estuary/inshore the same way my Adventure did for many years. In single outrigger mode i have increased versatility and space if i used a tramp. In full AI mode i could cover big distances on those days you want to dent the horizon or troll all day.

My first proper fishing yak the prowler was an ideal do most things well boat but as experience is gained you seem to want and expect more from your boats. Given that my girlfriend has claimed the prowler and the adventure, i can't see me selling any but the BFS which tends to just sit there.


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## yakko (Feb 18, 2013)

As a relative newcomer, with a vested interest, I'll add my 2 cents worth. Funnily enough though I think it's like my other passion, mountain bikes. I started off with one that would do everything, 10+ years later I have 7 and it'll always be N+1

I've personally only owned an Emotion Angler for kayak fishing and have tried a few others. I like to keep things really simple when I go out fishing so this boats been ideal, it's very stable though not super fast couple of rod holders and enough room for a crate in the back. a hatch up front that I can store things in and that's it.

Personally I will only ever be fishing in bays, estuaries rivers and such and have no need for the type of boats and equipment the off shore guys will.

I've been studying kayaks very hard for the last 6 or so months to try and identify what would be ideal to use as tour boats. What it has come down to for me is - 
Stability is the highest priority followed by comfort so things like quality seats, foot rests, and storage area's. Length and weight is a factor as they cant be too big too manage then speed. Finally the hull shape/construction is a large consideration, there will be a lot of banging or rocks and dragging over stuff so we need something reasonably flat on bottom that also wont tear to pieces on the first tour.

Like bikes, I think you really need several different kayaks to fulfill all your needs.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

Bertros said:


> dru said:
> 
> 
> > Adjustable seating position, happy if you cater or the long legs and heavy, as long as I can get the seat forward to keep the nose down.
> ...


Design is always interesting and there are different approaches. Part of what happens in trying to build a ski that fits the full population, they often start with the big bloke in mind. Then hope that the rest of us dont notice the compromise. A ski designed this way will tend not to have the right dynamics for a smaller lighter paddler (which is most of us). You will tend to need to get a lighter weight further forward. It also helps dropping into wholes on the runners.

A good example is when Bazoo re-designed the 465 to create the Splash, more or less, the hull is the same, but the deck has the cockpit forther forward. This keeps the Evolution's nose down (The nose loosing touch with the water reducing water line is a common experience in the Evolutions) and keep is quicker. The nore does not exit the water when you power up either. Good job Bazz. BUT the compromise here that the availabile space inside the hull is reduced - no fish hatch.

Check this out:








That's the Vajda Oscar

It's 5.5m long, 53cm wide (about the same as my SIK) and 18kg , different lay ups down to 11kg. Add in a rod chute/fish hatch behind the cockpit. Not a bad start. If we are going to seriously modify, tighter catch , max 5m, small day hatch between your toes. hard chine under your backside for about a meter. Rest as mentioned earlier.

It's not the only available start point either. EVERY ski manufacturer has a ski in this class, Stealth V8, Stellar 18S, Fenn Blue-Fin


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

How about this one Drew. Long, narrow, fast, light and has a fish hatch an rod holder.
There is more than one manufacturer of fibreglass fishing skis.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

Hey AWTY. Reckon my Profisha would be better, but the bigger issue was I couldnt find where to get an Eric. Couldnt locate them in RSA let alone Aus. I was wondering if they had folded even. There are a couple of others too. The Pinnacle was discussed here for a while, and I thought it made it on to the Pro Kayaks (narrabeen) product list for a while. Bloke in the store didnt know what I was talking about.

All in all, Stealth have this market in Aus and provide a great product. But I just wonder at something that sits beyond the profisha and crosses over properly into the beginner ski area.


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

Erics main concentration is the domestic racing skis, the fishing skis is something to keep them going in the off season. From what I've heard of the Snoek its more practice racing ski than a fishing ski, more narrow than a fisha and a higher seating position, not for tippy paddlers. Can only speculate which is better as I havent paddled either.
The Kingy has a better seating potion for paddling than any Stealth I've paddled, but being higher up doesnt make it any easier to stay in the saddle when going through a surf break. There pros and cons in any design, but for what I do.....it'll do.
There are some good designs still coming out of SA, not just Stealth, but its great Stealth have gone to trouble of designing them for and marketing them for Australia (just wish they'd stop using Bazz's arse measurements for the seat ;-) ). Dont understand why America isnt into the fishing skis. If there were a bigger market, we'd probably get more variety.
If I was in the market for another, I'd be looking seriously at getting the latest Pinnacle, wasn't that fussed on the earlier type which was around when I imported my Kingy.

Back on topic. What makes a perfect fishing kayak.....one that floats and gets you out there fishing.


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

I've thought about it and I don't think the kayak is the problem.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

keza said:


> I've thought about it and I don't think the kayak is the problem.


Kez, blast of common sense as usual. But buddy, this time I'm not with you. The cross over skis are so close to where what I will call "performance yakking" is going its just a matter of time. still, if we measure from fish caught... You are on the money!

Bertros, there is thin and then there is thin. I started yak fishing 5 years ago in a plastic SOT. It was a fantastic yak. For two years I have been fishing from a 54cm wide SIK. It wasn't a big jump. I have it hitting along at almost an average 10 km/ hour. That's cool. Now I want 12. And I see no reason that I can't fish from the same yak.

And I have the Profisha if I want a serious fishing platform.

Actually I'm not hunting for much thinner in a fishing yak. 53-54 even 60 cm works. What I want is 40 cm at the catch. Everything else design wise follows from there.

SORRY PAUL! Didn't mean to be a hijack.


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2013)

I think there are may different perfect fishing yaks/skis. It just depends on what your main type of fishing is. As its been said before there is no yak that suits all types of fishing


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

Dru, my brother can fish off his surf ski, I struggle to stay upright on it and now find there is no way my back can take the balancing act.
I'm sure practice makes perfect but it is hard to imagine from what I have tried.
It would be good to have the perfect hull and then order it in either glass, carbon or plastic (vacuum thermo forming).


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## johnny (Aug 12, 2007)

finn gizmo has a 13kilo? foam in plastic hull Occy.....I like durability of thermoformed over fibreglass or plastic...Lapse is spot on


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## CET (Dec 19, 2012)

No one kayak suits all fishermen. That is because no one has made a kayak that suits all fishermen.

In brainstorming, no suggestion is a silly suggestion. For example you may want a fast kayak that is also wide and stable as a fishing platform.
Impossible? Not if you have swing out outriggers. Pedals or no pedals. A kayak where pedals can be attached as an optional extra if required or taken off and on, as required.

A brainstorming thread would be good.

Occy could do it so we can accuse him of carrying out a communist plot or something.

Pete


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## HAWKEYE3 (Jan 8, 2009)

I'm happy with my new Hobie PA14.

My physical condition and age were factors.

As some one has already indicated the ideal is what gets you out there and fishing, and I add and keeps you fishing

Regards

Ian


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

keza said:


> Dru, my brother can fish off his surf ski, I struggle to stay upright on it and now find there is no way my back can take the balancing act.
> I'm sure practice makes perfect but it is hard to imagine from what I have tried.
> It would be good to have the perfect hull and then order it in either glass, carbon or plastic (vacuum thermo forming).


There is no way I'm fishing from a typical ORS (Ocean Racing Ski). But I bet you wouldn't fall off one of these new "beginner" skis. Any fishing platform needs stability. But design must come in somewhere. Kerry, you already paddle one of the three fishing kayaks that I consider as close to perfect as is available. But I'd just love something that will hunt runners on the way home.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

Paul, i finally ticked a few boxes. I hate these poll things but have to say the results are interesting. One that I was going to tick, but didn't, was "stability". It strikes me that what I mean by stability is completely different to those who love their PAs. No gripes with a PA, just what I am thinking is different.

Also is it primary stability or secondary? I'm guessing in this context we are talking secondary.

Interesting results.


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## soloyakka85 (Sep 19, 2012)

my yak is a prime example of if it floats and gets me fishing its the perfect yak. mine is an old bline solo SIK has two rod holders, my hands. almost no primary stability but very good secondary. has no bells or whistles, its just a bare bones SIK that i use to get on the water. its probably got the most uncomfortable seat of any yak on this site, being a moulded fibreglass seat but the important things are i know it doesnt leak...yet, and i catch fish out of it. everything else is a luxury.
phil


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

Under the circumstances mods, surely time to close this sorry saga and very sorry end.


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## koich (Jul 25, 2007)

Is there something up with Occy?


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## solatree (May 30, 2008)

koich said:


> Is there something up with Occy?


 Not been here for three weeks - hope he is OK.


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## koich (Jul 25, 2007)

Word on the street is that the emoticons have taken him.


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## smigel (May 23, 2013)

Well this post started getting heated until people un-twisted there knickers but I believe the Poll is flawed from the offset as it assumes (maybe im wrong)that one particular set of features can adapt to all situations it would have been more constructive to break it down into types of fishing & without doing this it is meaningless say

which features people find important for
out wide
estuary 
skinny creeks

there cant be a one fits all survey as you would not take a 575 pro fisha up a bass creek & I would not venture to a ( say Longy)wider venue on on a 2m 15kg sit in bit of plastic.
If I was after trout or bass maybe being able to stand up & sight cast would be important for me but not 5Ks out in the rock n roll to be more realistic it would also have to break down the the frequency at which people fished different types of waters to be worthwhile but may be thats getting a bit long winded.
Nigel
P.S.
Got to nip round the corner to woolies should I take the Barina or the Land cruiser (Ican park the Barina easier but fit more in the Cruiser)then if I get out bush at the weekend which one should I take then.


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