# Kayaking virgin's first time, gets wet. Need advice...



## PaddlingGod (Dec 10, 2012)

First go with the yak yesterday. The model I've got is the Exhilarator by Emotion. The ocean got a bit choppy with some wind. Warm day, clear skies and the water wasn't cold. Lucky for me as I tipped over moments after getting in, and then a minute later after trying to lean into a turn. Got back in, albeit awkwardly. For my maiden trek I packed light, so the total weight was only a few kilos in addition to myself (81kg, 180cm). Great, so I'm paddling. But I'm mostly thinking "don't tip, don't tip". Paddled for an hour, but stayed close to shore.

That's one thing I wasn't expecting, how tippy the yak would be. Can't compare it to other yaks since it's my first, but I've tried a tandem sit inside (10 years ago) which seemed more like a canoe because of its width, and wasn't much worried about it tipping over on the lake we were on. Maybe an unfair comparison since a relatively skinny yak on slightly choppy ocean water is not the same as a recreational sit inside on a glassy lake. It wasn't so much the chop but the wind hitting my torso once every few minutes which I felt was throwing me off balance. Nearly tipped it again, I reacted and flung my leg out the side and got my balance. After a while I started to really dig my paddle into the water to pick up some speed. Had no sunscreen so called it a day after just an hour.

While I was after an all rounder kayak for paddling, sightseeing and some fishing, today's experience fell short of my expectations. I didn't dare reach for the chips in the dry-bag at the back, much less the front deck bungees. If a shark were to kiss my yak, I was going into the broth. Good thing I got this real cheap. If I paid anywhere near RRP for this yak, I'd be returning it tomorrow.

_If anyone here has tried this yak, and knows another yak that's at least as fast but a lot more stable I'd like to know._ Stable as in sitting with both legs dangling off the same side stable. And not just for fishing, something I can paddle for at least a couple km a day. Am I asking for too much? Should I get a sit inside instead? I guess when I get a better feel and balance for the current yak I'll enjoy it more. Some nice days ahead, I'll post an update then. Otherwise you'll find my decaying body splayed on the rocks off southern Victoria.


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

No idea about this kayak but I just had a look on the net and it looks to be reasonably long/wide (76cm wide 11'2" long) so should be OK and very stable.

SOT fishing kayaks should be stable and should be extremely hard to fall out of. If you are falling out and finding stability a problem on flatwater then you either have a serious balance problem or the kayak is designed poorly design. Longer/wider kayaks will be more stable than short/narrow ones.

Not sure if anyone else owns one of these and can comment on their stability?


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## PaddlingGod (Dec 10, 2012)

Don't think my balance is the problem, I was pretty good with the skateboard some years ago. I guess I just didn't expect to have to learn to balance a kayak the same way I learned to ride a bike or skateboard. Thought a newbie like me could get right on and head right out across a bit of chop and wind no problem. Seems I'll need some practice with this boat before I'd be comfortable fishing from it, which also sucks 'cos I wanted to lend this one to guests if they asked, but it'll probably just put them off kayaking altogether.


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## bruus (Aug 27, 2010)

I've found from helping a couple of mates who started kayaking that they would feel unstable and fall out because they werem't confident in their kayaks ability. They would feel the kayak roll to one side and try to counter it by leaning the other which would then tip them out. My advice to them was just keep you head level with the horizon and let your hips roll with the waves and kayak. I don't know if thats sound advice but it has worked for us all and am alot more confident with our kayaks abilities. Our kayaks are about 78 cm wide.


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

PaddlingGod said:


> Don't think my balance is the problem, Thought a newbie like me could get right on and head right out across a bit of chop and wind no problem. .


You definitely SHOULD be able to simply hop in most SOT kayaks and paddle without feeling like you were about to tip out. Obviously the more time in the boat the better, as your core and sense of balance improves. Does the hull have an overly rounded bottom or is the bottom reasonably flat as often hull shape will have a lot to do with it? Also the height of the paddler will also affect the balance of the kayak - taller paddlers have a higher centre of gravity

I guess this is the downside to buying a kayak without actually doing a test paddle first. Was the yak an Anaconda special?


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

Davey G said:


> No idea about this kayak but I just had a look on the net and it looks to be reasonably long/wide (76cm wide 11'2" long) so should be OK and very stable.
> 
> SOT fishing kayaks should be stable and should be extremely hard to fall out of. If you are falling out and finding stability a problem on flatwater then you either have a serious balance problem or the kayak is designed poorly design. Longer/wider kayaks will be more stable than short/narrow ones.
> 
> Not sure if anyone else owns one of these and can comment on their stability?


I'm with Davey. There are skills involved with kayaking, and these are not offered at POS, and are not intuitive. They are not learned overnight. It takes time, correct instruction, and lots of practice. Don't give up.

The best way to learn kayaking skills is with professional instruction contact Australian Canoeing for an accredited instructor closest to you). The second best is to seek help from other yakkers,and while 'cheap', there is no guarantee you will get good advice.



bruus said:


> I've found from helping a couple of mates who started kayaking that they would feel unstable and fall out because they werem't confident in their kayaks ability. They would feel the kayak roll to one side and try to counter it by leaning the other which would then tip them out. My advice to them was just keep you head level with the horizon and let your hips roll with the waves and kayak. I don't know if thats sound advice but it has worked for us all and am alot more confident with our kayaks abilities. Our kayaks are about 78 cm wide.


That's certainly a large part of it Bruus, but a person starting out will be as stiff as a board. I still remember my first go in a kayak in the Caboolture River. On dead flat water, I fell out 4 times in an hour.

PaddlingGod

Stick with it. There is much to learn, and the rewards are enormous....fitness, adventure, camaraderie, and hopefully fish.

trev


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## PaddlingGod (Dec 10, 2012)

The hull shape is rounded through the centre, then there's a flat part that's slightly concave on both sides. They call it a "tri-hull". Was an Anaconda special.


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## PaddlingGod (Dec 10, 2012)

kayakone said:


> I still remember my first go in a kayak in the Caboolture River. On dead flat water, I fell out 4 times in an hour.
> 
> PaddlingGod
> 
> ...


For sure, I'll stick with it. I assume the kayak is working as designed, and guess they sacrificed some stability for speed etc.


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## Zed (Sep 18, 2006)

I'm curious about how you chose your username? Are you from a place called Paddling? Or maybe [unlikely] your name is God? If neither are true, then the hubris has upset the true kayak gods and you are destined to be wet for at least 7 years.


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## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

I think your expectations are too high. You say that you paddled for only one hour and that it was windy and choppy. Thats a tricky combo for a novice. Try on calm water with no gear, concentrate on smooth paddle strokes, arms straight etc etc. One thing you dont do is lean into a turn, advanced technique is actually the opposite, leaning the opposite way to the turn bury the paddle and use your body to torque the kayak around. Get a 30 hours up in calm water gradually working into wind chop etc and you'll wonder what all the fuss is, the more water time the better and even the best fall out.


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## emufingers (Aug 11, 2010)

The first time I took a yak out I resolved to learn about falling out and getting back in an nothing else. No fishing gear, nochips, nothing loose. Dressed in swimming gear and lifejacket. I reckon it took about half an hour in good flat conditions to learn to tip over on cue and to get back in with some degree of system amd agility. From that day on I have never tipped over unintentionally (It is good to do a few recoveries at the beginning of each season) Your brain seems to record infromation about yak stability very quickly doing it this way and having no expectations of keeping dry or stayng upright for very long makes it impossible to fail.


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## greenhornet (Aug 8, 2007)

great point emufingers, I did the same when I bought a sot after years in a sit in. I found sit on tops tippier even though it was wider but after a few deliberate tips to see just how far you can lean I adjusted better. It was also great to practice climbing back on top without the rods and gear etc getting in the way. Ps haven't fallen out since


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## PaddlingGod (Dec 10, 2012)

Zed said:


> [...] your name is God?


God...is perfectly fine. Cheers.



Breambo said:


> I think your expectations are too high. You say that you paddled for only one hour and that it was windy and choppy. Thats a tricky combo for a novice.


Probably right.



emufingers said:


> The first time I took a yak out I resolved to learn about falling out and getting back in an nothing else. No fishing gear, nochips, nothing loose.


Besides the snacks and drink I had no rods or anything. I have a rod holder that attaches to the back of the seat which I left at home. Made sure everything was tied down well, so all was good. I honestly thought I would be able to stand up on the thing and use it like a paddle board!


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## Rockster (Sep 7, 2007)

Stick with it PG. As others have said it should feel better and better the more time you spend in it. Eventually your balance should be so good, you could ride a uni cycle. it does appear that others have had the same experience or expectations http://www.paddling.net/Reviews/showReviews.html?prod=1193. You don't want to go to the hassle of fitting it out with outriggers.
Cheers
Bob


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## bildad (Jun 20, 2011)

Zed said:


> I'm curious about how you chose your username? Are you from a place called Paddling? Or maybe [unlikely] your name is God? If neither are true, then the hubris has upset the true kayak gods and you are destined to be wet for at least 7 years.


Ah yes good call Zed :lol:


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## BaysideKayakAngler (Mar 30, 2011)

PaddlingGod said:


> ...after trying to lean into a turn....


Leaning into turns ???


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## solatree (May 30, 2008)

I wonder whether the issue is primary and secondary stability. The description of the hull design sounds to me as if it relies on its secondary stability. The rounded main hull needs some weight to engage the secondary stability in the hull. The early Outback was a bit like that too. Until the secondary stability engages, the kayak feels tippy - perhaps when you feel a bit tippy, you over compensate and over you go ? Might be worthwhile trying to add a bit of weight to the hull (via sand bags) and see if that makes it feel more stable by engaging the secondary stability. Add extra weight a bit at a time and see if that changes how it feels.


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## PaddlingGod (Dec 10, 2012)

What a difference a day makes. Perfect weather and no stability fears. Had a blast.



BaysideKayakAngler said:


> PaddlingGod said:
> 
> 
> > ...after trying to lean into a turn....
> ...


Seemed to make sense at the time. 1 second later, fail. Lesson learned.


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## PaddlingGod (Dec 10, 2012)

...but I'd still rather be in something more stable if I was serious about fishing. If I was gonna buy another yak right now, it'd probably be a Malibu Mini-X, only that it's likely to be slower than the Emotion.



solatree said:


> I wonder whether the issue is primary and secondary stability.


Found this, the third post down by JonS http://www.kayakfishingstuff.com/commun ... hp?t=36897


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## Dodge (Oct 12, 2005)

PaddlingGod said:


> ...but I'd still rather be in something more stable if I was serious about fishing. If I was gonna buy another yak right now, it'd probably be a Malibu Mini-X, only that it's likely to be slower than the Emotion.


PG do still feel you are rushing into a judgement a touch too quickly before really getting to know the yak and its feel.

An example of patience is Wazza [Seadog] who some years ago bought a second hand swing, which was his second yak, and first outing on very calm water he was squealing like a girl at its movement, with me alongside saying "be patient mate till you get the feel", and after 10 minutes I just left him to do his thing, and he caught me up about 15 minutes later, and certainly was still unsure in choice of new boat.

The turn around in confidence comes with use, and in the first picture you can see him sitting side saddle happy after only 6 months of use, then in the second its after about 3-4 years in the yak
















So suggest you form an opinion on your yak after a dozen outings, by then you and the boat have come to an understanding of each other's ways, no doubt there will be better yaks around but have seen a couple like yours on the water [not in surf] and the owners seemed content.


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## spork (Jan 21, 2012)

Dodge said:


> snip...
> The turn around in confidence comes with use, and in the first picture you can see him sitting side saddle happy after only 6 months of use, then in the second its after about 3-4 years in the yak
> View attachment 1
> 
> ...


Faark. 3-4 years in the yak? That must be a really comfy seat! 6-8 hours usually pulls me up, hoping I will be more comfy with the new bumpad.


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## PaddlingGod (Dec 10, 2012)

Dodge said:


> [...] form an opinion on your yak after a dozen outings, by then you and the boat have come to an understanding of each other's ways, no doubt there will be better yaks around but have seen a couple like yours on the water [not in surf] and the owners seemed content.


I'd like to try this out in the surf too









But yeah I'll just shut my trap and keep paddling and decide later. If I was gonna grab a new yak like the mini-x, I'd like to keep the current one since it wasn't expensive, and of course I never actually expected to use this one solely as a fishing boat. But the keeping your balance thing definitely caught me off guard the first time.


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## chinaski (Dec 13, 2012)

PaddlingGod said:


> While I was after an all rounder kayak for paddling, sightseeing and some fishing, today's experience fell short of my expectations. I didn't dare reach for the chips in the dry-bag at the back, much less the front deck bungees. If a shark were to kiss my yak, I was going into the broth. Good thing I got this real cheap. If I paid anywhere near RRP for this yak, I'd be returning it tomorrow.
> 
> _If anyone here has tried this yak, and knows another yak that's at least as fast but a lot more stable I'd like to know._ Stable as in sitting with both legs dangling off the same side stable. And not just for fishing, something I can paddle for at least a couple km a day. Am I asking for too much? Should I get a sit inside instead? I guess when I get a better feel and balance for the current yak I'll enjoy it more. Some nice days ahead, I'll post an update then. Otherwise you'll find my decaying body splayed on the rocks off southern Victoria.


Hi mate,

I bought one of these from Anaconda recently (on sale for $399) and thought exactly the same thing - very very tippy. But when you look at the hull design I guess it makes more sense. I ended up taking it back straight away as I was after a more stable craft for fishing and something my wife would want to use also. I think it'd be ok with a fair bit of practice and in more of a sheltered location.

Cheers


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## PaddlingGod (Dec 10, 2012)

Hey chinaski, I got it for $399 aswell. Wouldn't surprise me if customers return these after their first try as you did due to its tippiness (if they wanted something to fish out of). An advisory system would be helpful on yaks, like

1 = Highly Unstable (eg. Surf Skis)
2 = Very Unstable
3 = Unstable
4 = Neutral (Some effort required to balance in less than easy conditions)
5 = Stable 
6 = Very Stable
7 = Highly Stable (Can stand-and-lean to one side without tipping)

I'd rate the Exhilarator a 4 (Neutral). As my second paddle proved, it felt a _lot_ better and I could confidently use it for light fishing in easy conditions. Haven't taken it for a third paddle yet, that'll be January. Still satisfied with it, though i won't be rigging it up with anything more than a small icebox and one rod. Not because I couldn't, but between a brisk fish I just want to paddle and "play" in the waves.


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