# Caloundra Offshore - The media Beatup



## pcsolutionman (Apr 9, 2007)

Guys massive massive media blow up, lol The weather was worse than predicted but still headed out not all that bad when we left probly 20 klnots and the wind was predicted to drop throughout the morning so we headed out Terry myself and Craig, Terry and I in our hobies and Craig in his Profish. got out to the beacon now worreis yeah it was rough but perfectly safe, I cast a lure out and was on with in seconds line screaming off of my new 3000 adv loaded with 15lb on my new custom snapper stick :shock: :shock: :shock: Finally turned its head after a couple of good long runs and pulled a Snapper to the surface and man it was a PB by a long way mid to high 70's easy, IT took one look at me and had one last dash for freedom and Ping goes my leader clean broke, not sure what happened but I was spewin, headed back for another drift to sea Craig really struggling to keep up with the current and wind he just couldnt get the thing to stay in a straight line (broken rudder) he was soon getting tired so he threw me a rope and I tied him off to the beacon so he could have a breather. Terry and I continued fishing, I dropped another resonable fish shortly after hooking then terry got a Hookup on his 4lb IMX yap he had it out there lol and ping leader knot broke dam, next drift I got onto another snapper only a little feller this time went 38cm threw him back, Swell and wind was increasing a little by this stage but still felt quite safe in the hobie man those pedals are great in windy conditions. next drift Im on again after a short but solid fight landed a mid 50's snapper ;-) ;-) knocked him on the head and into the hull he goes, lovin me new stick by this stage. Terry couldnt get his line through his guides in the rough conditions so I grabbed his rod to have a go as im getting the line through i lookup to see I have gotten side on to the ever increasing swell so I straighten up and continue with the line get it through the final tip guide and lookup to see a wave breaking right over my side :shock: :shock: yep off I come, but my 2 lighter sticks were fine locked and secured in the front holder but my heavier Tuna stick was just sitting in the rear holder (the only thing that wasnt tied down) so as im falling off I twist around in time to grab the rod :lol: :lol: so here I am yak upside down treading water trying to keep 2 rods out of the water lol , called terry over, he couldnt hear me so I leaned the rods on the upside down yak and turned it back over, finally got terrys attention, to come over and grab the 2 rods I was holding so I could jump back on ;-) ;-) had a couple of failed attempts with a big heavy jumper filled with water but finally got back on, was never really in trouble worst case the jumper comes off and I jump straight back on done it many times. So Terry and I decided conditions were getting worse so we would head back in. got back to the beacon and told Craig we were heading back in, he said ok not sure how ill go but lets give it a crack, so he untied himself and off we went, We were making ok headway and craig was looking alright, the only problem was he could not head in any direction but straight into the wind, so Terry and I started heading towards land a bit more all the time keeping an eye on Craig, he was keeping pace with us so all was cool. thats when we look up to see the police boat heading our way, they came and had a chat to Terry and I, said they had had 3 calls about yakkers in trouble lol we said we were fine but Craig was struggling with a broken rudder, so the zoomed over, Craig decided it was easier to get a lift back in even though he would have made it back. Terry and I continued on our way back to the launch site then after dropping craig back they headed backn out to check on us, we said we were fine but they shadowed Terry who was ab out 200m behind me all the way back to the ramp, as I approached the ramp I see a new camera setup right in front of the ramp looking out at me, thought what the hell lol. paddled in even though the landing was easy shitting bricks that I might roll it on camera lmao. got in and had a news reporter start asking questions, said everything was fine mate just got a lift cause his rudder was playing up. he said oh well heres a story a rescue is a rescue. I said to him yeah your all the same this will be a massive beatup, his reply nah no way we dont dot hat sort of thing :shock: :shock: :shock: anyway that was our morning nothing too exciting lol we had some good fun and I dont think we were ever in any reel danger to be honest.

Get a few things straight

We did not abandon Craig as one of the news programs stated, we were watching his progress making sure not to get too far a head. Yes he got towed back but would have made it back in if needed hell Terry and I would have towed him if need be been there done that. once again a massive media beatup a story made from nothing.

Lee


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## breambuster13 (Dec 29, 2007)

i seen this story on the news, sounds like the media tryed to make a big story out of nothing.
Craig


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## pcsolutionman (Apr 9, 2007)

breambuster13 said:


> i seen this story on the news, sounds like the media tryed to make a big story out of nothing.
> Craig


precisely Craig


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## TerryH (Aug 29, 2007)

I hope the police watched me casually eat my muslei bar and drink a bottle of water......

I was considering even dropping my lure out into the water to have a troll back... I even wanted to stop and have a toilet break, but wasn't sure how the police would respond. Thought they might consider me in trouble - yeah I was in trouble.... I was on the verge of pissing my pants.

Weather forecast was horribly wrong suppose to be droping to below 10 knots by 8am, well it might have picked up by 10 knots by that stage lol. My fingers and bottom lip was terribly cold so sucked majorly to try and tie stuff which made fishing painful. Sucked about that snapper I lost too

It was starting to pick up and with Lee back in the yak, (now drifted probably a few hundred metres from where craig was tied off at) we headed back to the marker and I suggested we depart before it got any worse.

We suggested that on the return trip Craig (Confused) head straight into the wind, since anything else and he'd be spinning out of control. I told him we were planning on head straight back, but would keep an eye on him so that if anything went wrong we'd head over. Craig was never forgotten or left behind, he's a big lad with a brain and some sense on him. I dont think he needs his hand held back to the boat ramp by another kayaker. Both Lee and i were frequently checking his position and progress to ensure he wasn't visibly in trouble. In fact he was making considerable progress straight into the wind. Besides, as he mentioned to me earlier today, if he was in serious trouble he'd have given someone a ring.

I dont know where the media gets some of their "facts" from. I think it's the BS Factory.

I'll be back out there asap with my IMX again to land some snapper on 4lbs.


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

Bugger! I only watch ABC and missed it......seems they only report real news there. ;-)

Bummer missing the big snapp mate, they're definitely going off around the place at the moment. ;-)......and whats Terry on thinking he can stop snapper on 4lb gear, mate I've tried, it wont stop anything over 60cm.

Pity you didnt fall off at the ramp, would have made me watch the other news programs just for a laugh. :lol:


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## pcsolutionman (Apr 9, 2007)

ArWeTherYet said:


> Bugger! I only watch ABC and missed it......seems they only report real news there. ;-)
> 
> Bummer missing the big snapp mate, they're definitely going off around the place at the moment. ;-)......and whats Terry on thinking he can stop snapper on 4lb gear, mate I've tried, it wont stop anything over 60cm.
> 
> Pity you didnt fall off at the ramp, would have made me watch the other news programs just for a laugh. :lol:


Paul I honestly think he is in with a chance of landing a good one out there on 4lbs, the only structure is the beacon nothing on the bottom, we have hooked fish 100M away from the beacon and in 20M of water and no structure I cant see why it cant be done, I would totally Agree with you in a shallow reefy area like u fish though NO CHANCE lol


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## TerryH (Aug 29, 2007)

lol

mate I'm very confident i can stop a big snapper on 4lbs. I'll do it next time hey? I'll check my drag isn't cranked up too high for the mainline.

Edit: I'd agree about shallow reefy areas. Not out there though. Just a lot of time and patience working him


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## Biggles (Jan 6, 2008)

At least the launch was good 

Regards

Al
View attachment 2

View attachment 1


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

The problem is getting them off the bottom, I guess you can gain line by pedaling to them but getting them up to the kayak :? ......could take a month. :lol:......good luck....the challenge is on I'm going to get the little stradic 1500 out spooled with 3lb fireline and give it another go.  last time was too windy and the fish headed straight into the wind, which makes it kinda hard to chase down when you have to paddle at the same time. :lol:

Oh sorry I'll get back on topic.....damn media. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :lol:


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## Shorty (May 11, 2008)

So did anybody manage to get the AKFF logo on the news ? :lol:

I guess things were blown up a bit, does this mean we can halve the lenght of the Great White in the river as well 

BTW> Good luck talking to the boss tomorrow, that will teach you blokes to call in sick :twisted:


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## rob316 (Oct 2, 2007)

Well , its good news that you 3 were in no serious danger....but I can't see the problem with the media and their stories other than a report or 2 that havn't got all the facts....I mean , really , looking at some of the pics posted here and there - it was rough , very uncomfortable no doubt - can't even tie knots its that lumpy/windy - would any of you gone out alone ? ... that's what i judge most conditions by...if I wouldn't be out here by myself , then its not a good idea to be out with others either....granted you say you felt it was ok , but it was obviously a touch and go situation as to whether it was "smart" or not once you arrived at your destination...then to stay there when a fellow paddler was handicapped with mechanical failure and the wind not abating , that could have been handled differently - personally i think you gambled against the odds and are lucky to not have a bigger situation that you all regret on your minds .

I am not condemming your actions - don't get me wrong - but it is a report that we all can learn from really...the news reports the stuff that we like to hear/interests us...and it shows how we are recognised in the public eye now - worthy of a news report....someone reported a kayak tied to a beacon - once again we are being observed and not disregarded - it all shows that our sport is not to be underestimated in stature and is worthy of recognition , but it also shows that we should be seen doing the right thing now - we don't go un-noticed like some of us believe.....we should all be happy that there is others out there , including the rescue services , that treat us seriously enough to care ....Once again , do not take offence , but consider it an eye opener and a lesson learned .


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## dp21 (Mar 22, 2008)

tony bullimore eat your heart out


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## mcbigg (Jul 14, 2007)

[sarcasm:]No, I don't believe it. The media don't beat things up. Surely not. :lol: :lol:[/sarcasm]

Makes for a good story for you blokes to share anyways! As Terry indicated in his report, you're all grown men, all experienced kayakers and all knew what you were doing. Not like you were out in a cyclone or anything. Just a bit windy and choppy.

Great report. Thanks for clearing up the BS with the facts.


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## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

I guess thats typical of the media. Once you accept a tow from water police its a rescue, gives the media something to work with. I bet Craig wouldnt of accepted if he knew it was breaking news all over the country. Lesson here is always self rescue unless absolutely necessary even if it means paddling for hours. ;-) 
Perhaps an emergency repair kit or perhaps a some kind of rudder lock to keep it in line in case of failure could be good idea.


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## AndyC (Feb 29, 2008)

rob316,

Congratulations on a well thought out response and moreso for having the courage to state your views, even if they do flow against the popular tide. I agree with everything you said.

Weather forecasts are only that .... forecasts. They are regularly inaccurate, especially in my part of the world ... or are laced with so many variables as to be more or less meaningless. If the conditions are already marginal at launch time, then it doesn't leave much room for slip, if they deteriorate.

In the face of gear failure in those conditions, one has to accept the possibility that they will get worse, rather than better. A strategic withdrawal as soon as it happened might have been a wiser course.

Kayak angling is really coming into its own now and I suppose its inevitable that the more intrepid of us will be inclined to push the boundaries. However, the sea is not inclined to be merciful to the foolish and all the geeing up that we want to dish out to each other won't change that.

I hope we won't have to lose people we know to remind us of that.

As for the press, of course they beat up their stories ... especially on a quiet day. But they do need smoke in order to make fire. The situation must have looked 'interesting' to have attracted the attention of the people who lodged the calls, to the water police and to the Press. They were probably all wrong.

Cheers All,

AndyC


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

I too find the blame of the forecast unsettling. You guys had 90min on the beach to figure out how wrong was the forecast. It was hopeful in the extreme to expect the conditions to improve. BTW, if you had a VHF radio you could have asked for the latest forecast or simply listened to the scheduled repeat of the latest forecast while you waited


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

----

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## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

Bad luck on loosing the snapper they always seem to bite better when its rough. I have wondered wether its the conditons that stir them up or the fact the lure/ bait is moving up an down so violently with the swell that they are attracted to it. Didn't anybody get a photo of Lee's swim. :lol:

I agree with robs statement, in a westerly wind that would blow you out to sea did you have a back up plan??

IE: did you log on for an offshore trip with the local volunteer marine rescue unit. Did you have a mate with a boat that could be contacted and get you if something went wrong. Did you have a VHF or EPIRB to contact or signal help on. The ocean should never be underestimated, I once rescued a sea going yacth from off sydney, the westerly was so strong he couldn't turn the yatch towards land and the engine wasn't powerful enough for him to drop the sails, he first tried to turn into lake mac, then broken bay and called for help then we picked him up off sydney and towed him in. 
Going offshore we should always have some sort of back up plan to get ourselves out of trouble.

Cheers dave


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## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

StevenM said:


> So what went wrong with the rudder??


Exactly?

The longer, wider and heavier a kayak gets, the more important the rudder's role. Those schmick looking pedals, cables and powder coated mechanisms aren't there to look good. They serve a purpose and failure in the open ocean is NOT acceptable. This is a mechanical device that is fitted to the yak to improve performance. If gear fails, compromising safety and performance then it is an issue.


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## Dodge (Oct 12, 2005)

pcsolutionman said:


> yeah it was rough but perfectly safe,


Lee this statement is a contradiction mate.

And think enthusiasm got in the way of better judgment on this occasion from each skipper present.


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## pcsolutionman (Apr 9, 2007)

I really dont see what the big fuss is TBO, In the hobies even in 30 knot winds and against Current I can still maintain 6-7klms an hour no problems all day long, we had water, food Mobile phones etc if we thought we were in any danger we could have called for help at any stage. Terry and I were going slow making sure Craig was all ok once craig decided to grab a lift fron the water police Terry and I scooted back in in about half an hour. As Terry said he was Drinking eating and was going to take a Piss on the way back lol but didnt know how the police following would react LMAO. I think its simply a matter of guys in big boats not realising that us in our Yaks can handle far worse conditions than u might think. I have and will again head out in conditions like that it was by no mean too dangerous IMO. I have been offshore many many times, in worse conditions as has Terry, The reports from some of the Media that this was Craigs first trip offshore were false he has been off of cape moreton and Double island in conditions similar. If you could see some of the conditions other yakkers go out in overseas and here you would consider the conditions we went out in mild. We did not blame the forecast we simply took it as a guide as it should be. We headed out in conditions we thought were easily manageable and of course u take into account that it could worsen, but this can happen anytime, for example. Paul (nodds) and I were 6 klms off of currimundi fishng currimundi reef, the forecast was for 5 knots and -1M swell we headed out it was perfect about an hour after arriving on the reef a bad storm cam in from the east and whipped up the wind and sea to probly 2M and 20-30 knots, we immediately packed up and headed in, We managed to maintain 9klms hour all the way back and were on shore in probly 40 mins, yes it was rough but we never felt in danger. The Weather can change at anytime thats the risk u take when heading out in any size boat. But Ill tell yeah one thing id rather be caught out there in rough conditions in my Adventure than any 15 foot tinny.

Lee

Lee


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## AndyC (Feb 29, 2008)

Hi Kraley,

Did I read though, that the three people who contacted the water police was other shipping ..... not just land-based members of the public? They obviously had a different perspective to the guys in the yaks. My guess is we are talking about experienced mariners here.

Whilst I agree that people should be free to use their own common sense in these matters, I am a little surprised that you are so relaxed regarding this incident. One guy has gear failure but they stay out in questionable conditions which get worse to the point that one yakker ends up in the drink. Doesn't sound very wise to me! The reality is, yaks really are very tiny boats and they DO have limitations that need to be respected.

The fact is, when the media gets ahold of something like this, whether they beat it up or not, it reflects on the sport as a whole and on yakkers generally. It won't take much of what the public percieves as irresponsible behaviour, before the beaurocrats will have all the excuse they need for registering kayaks and licensing paddlers.

Now guys, who's up for a paddle to see if we can bag that seven metre (er ... now three and a half) Great white. That should get us some positive media coverage!

Cheers All,

AndyC


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## pcsolutionman (Apr 9, 2007)

Ending up in the water is by no means a big deal, thats why I practiced for hours getting in and out. think about this it is far more dangerous launching in a yak from a beach which is done all the time, not very difficult to roll and get hit by the yak and knocked out or, get tangled in a rod leash or paddle leash and drown, far more dangerous IMO.

at the end of the day guys were all grown men and can make our own decisions on what we think is acceptable risks, nobody was pressured to head out, in fact 2 guys decided not too. and if yah ask Biggles he didnt go out cause he didnt want to get wet and cold in 3 deg temperatures (yep coldest morning this year) not because he thought it was too rough or unsafe.

Lee


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

Guys. Firstly (and most importantly) I'm glad to hear that the worst thing that happened was Lee taking a dunking and that you all got back to land safely.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and we're all experts after the event, so nobody should be telling you what you should have or could have done - thats entirely up to you to decide at the time. You all take responsibility for your actions.

I wouldn't go pointing fingers or blaming others for calling the Police/Coastguard - the guys( whoever they were) obviously thought that you looked like you were in trouble (and I would do the same if I saw one bloke tied to a beacon and another bloke in the water struggling to get back onto his upturned kayak). The fact that the police responded so quickly is terrific and shows that those guys are there to HELP, not ruin your days fishing....

And as for media beat ups....well, I can only imagine the beat up should one or all of you gotten into REAL trouble and drowned. :shock: :shock: :shock:

May i suggest that you guys make the effort to go down and introduce yourselves to the water police guys that came to your assistance. Take the time to thank them, and while you're at it, perhaps give them an idea of your experience so that they are a little more aware in future of the capabilities of you and your craft. I'm sure the guys at the water police will be glad to see you and have a chat.

Again, glad to hear you are all well.


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## pcsolutionman (Apr 9, 2007)

Davey G said:


> Guys. Firstly (and most importantly) I'm glad to hear that the worst thing that happened was Lee taking a dunking and that you all got back to land safely.
> 
> I wouldn't go pointing fingers or blaming others for calling the Police/Coastguard - the guys( whoever they were) obviously thought that you looked like you were in trouble (and I would do the same if I saw one bloke tied to a beacon and another bloke in the water struggling to get back onto his upturned kayak). The fact that the police responded so quickly is terrific and shows that those guys are there to HELP, not ruin your days fishing....


Totally agree Dave good to know help isnt far away if u ever really do need it, having said that Id say it was probly 45 min to an hour from when I went in to when we sighted The police.



Davey G said:


> May i suggest that you guys make the effort to go down and introduce yourselves to the water police guys that came to your assistance. Take the time to thank them, and while you're at it, perhaps give them an idea of your experience so that they are a little more aware in future of the capabilities of you and your craft. I'm sure the guys at the water police will be glad to see you and have a chat.


Good idea mate think i might just do that

Lee


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2008)

pcsolutionman said:


> Ending up in the water is by no means a big deal, thats why I practiced for hours getting in and out. .Lee


I am sure you will find that some of these people who are beating you up over being irresponsible in this case do not do the same lee, and would be irrisponsible themselves by heading outside whilst being incapable of re-boarding their craft if the same were to happen to them.


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## pcsolutionman (Apr 9, 2007)

keljad said:


> pcsolutionman said:
> 
> 
> > Ending up in the water is by no means a big deal, thats why I practiced for hours getting in and out. .Lee
> ...


Exactly James, one good thing was learnt though, I will from now on Put my PFD on under my heavier jumper, in the case of going over it is easier to rip a heavy jumper off full of water b4 reboarding. thats the most valuable thing I learnt from this . oh and Never Grab a ride from a Police boat if u could make it back in LMAO. and dont forget never trust the media lol

Lee


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## petanquedon (May 27, 2008)

pcsolutionman said:


> Craig really struggling to keep up with the current and wind he just couldnt get the thing to stay in a straight line (broken rudder) he was soon getting tired.


If you had decided that it was a rough day and Craig was having problems at this stage.

You may have avoided having a swim and unwanted fame.

What is a reasonable thing depends on who you ask.


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## pcsolutionman (Apr 9, 2007)

Lazybugger said:


> Glad to see your all ok guys!
> 
> I think there is a lesson for everyone here .... don't go fishing with Terry ... he's bad luck ;-)  :lol:


I hear yah mate but dont think its Terry, I have caught loads of good fish when he is around. The mere presence of Biggles however usually ends with No fish or disaster So i think your on the right track but I reckon Al is your man LMAO

Lee


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## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

pcsolutionman said:


> it is far more dangerous launching in a yak from a beach which is done all the time, not very difficult to roll and get hit by the yak and knocked out or, get tangled in a rod leash or paddle leash and drown, far more dangerous IMO.


There's a lot of info available right now on beach launching and landing. A key focus on surf zone discussion is based on loose objects, best practice storage systems and non use of paddle leashes in the surf zone. Another focuss is on personal fitness, reading conditions and using good judgement to determine whether or not you should go out. Risk minimisation is also covered.

Your bluewater incident doesn't bear any comparitive relevance to potential mishaps in the surf zone as they are entirely different workspaces controlled by thier own individual charachteristics.


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## fourbee4 (May 6, 2008)

We all know that fishing trips get exaggerated from time to time. And possibly? the media might have exaggerated the story a little bit?! They normally don't?! But because it was a fishing trip they were obliged too!!

I would have preferred that boys were able to tell there own version of the story with their own exaggerations, it would have made a better story. I'd be pissed off too if someone had told my story first without including all the important facts.
- Was the rudder really bitten off by a shark?
- Lee, are you sure the mermaid that helped flip your kayak back-over was a blonde?
- Is Woman's Day really paying $10,000 for your story??
Can't wait to go to the pub tonight and hear the real story?!? Lol.



pcsolutionman said:


> one good thing was learnt though, I will from now on Put my PFD on under my heavier jumper, in the case of going over it is easier to rip a heavy jumper off full of water b4 reboarding. thats the most valuable thing I learnt from this . oh and Never Grab a ride from a Police boat if u could make it back in LMAO. and dont forget never trust the media lol


Good onya, Lee for putting your hand up and saying you learnt something from the experience. It's now somthing I'd consider if I was soft enough to wear a jumper?! lol.

A healthy discussion like this topic is good for all to read and take into consideration relevant point made by all.

cheers
4b4


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## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

kraley said:


> Rescuers can put a lot of pressure on you to accept help once they arrive in these circumstances.


Once at Port Stevens we had fuel problems and called a mayday before getting blown on the cliffs at the heads. We got the motor going enough to make it in but the water police insisted we accept a tow. We gratefully accepted even though we would have made it but when we hit the marina we got a severe dressing down and were told what idiots we were. Now I would only accept a rescue if I was in the water and unable to swim to shore. This thread reminds me of that time. :lol:


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## Biggles (Jan 6, 2008)

When we arrived at the ramp just before 0530 the conditions were indeed very average and not conducive to a safe launch, by 0700 the conditions had subsided to a point where a launch was easy, safe and quite relaxed and I have about 30 pics to prove it. I drove up the hill to the lookout (with the heater on FULL) lol and watched the guys head for the blinker with the wind at their backs, they were traveling pretty quick but were trolling lures the whole way. About 0800 - 0830 I just couldn't warm up so I headed for home, IMO the conditions were unpleasant but quite manageable for experienced yakkers and this has been well documented. Would I have gone with them if I had my beanie and was warm?, you bet, actually I felt like a bit of a sook because I was so cold but when you get to age 40 you tend to notice things like jack frost lol.

IMHO I see only positives in this experience for the sport and the people in it, here a few that come to mind;
1. They stayed together as a group
2. They helped each other when it was needed
3. The had appropriate safety and communications gear
4. People knew exactly where they were going and what time they were due to return
5. They had fresh water and food
6. People who thought kayak fisho's needed help called for it (Container ship) 8) 
7. Emergency Services responded approriately 8) 
8. We know how to get back on our yak in bad conditions because we practiced it many times (have you done this yet? really?)
9. They didn't launch until after sunup and only when safe
10. They used the weather forecast as a guide
11. The media were just doing their jobs, they have been doing it that way for hundreds of years
etc etc etc

I like Davey's suggestion about a visit to the water police, interaction and understanding can only be a positive thing and this is an awesome idea for future misshaps either percieved or real. We all know that kayak fishing is one of, if not the fastest growing water sports in Australia at the present time, our forums are active and our gear is relativey advanced compared to that of 5 years ago, I personally would like to see a culture of "No Blame", and disemmination of "Lessons Learnt" for all concerned.

Just my 2 cents

Regards

Al


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## Biggles (Jan 6, 2008)

pcsolutionman said:


> Lazybugger said:
> 
> 
> > Glad to see your all ok guys!
> ...


At least I would have landed the snapper LMAO, and you know I would have ;-)

Al


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

One thing i missed earlier in this report was that you guys said how cold it was... What the?

I thought you blokes lived on the SUNSHINE coast - warm subtropical and all that?!

3 degrees at launch - bugger that, I'm staying in Sydney! :lol:


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

Biggles said:


> I like Davey's suggestion about a visit to the water police, interaction and understanding can only be a positive thing and this is an awesome idea for future misshaps either percieved or real.
> Al


Guys, believe me that the Water police would LOVE you guys to drop in and say thanks, and say g'day. They're normal, water sports loving guys and would probably also love to check out your yaks and how you rig them up.

Ambos, Firies, Police, Lifeguards and other rescue organisations perform a bloody tough job which is usually thankless. To have someone actually turn up (perhaps with a case of beer for them) and say thanks would really make their day and would also help to open their eyes to what you guys are capable of doing on your yaks.....


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## pcsolutionman (Apr 9, 2007)

Davey G said:


> One thing i missed earlier in this report was that you guys said how cold it was... What the?
> 
> I thought you blokes lived on the SUNSHINE coast - warm subtropical and all that?!
> 
> 3 degrees at launch - bugger that, I'm staying in Sydney! :lol:


Yeah Dave it was bloody freezing But the water was just over 20 deg, I was a lot warmer out there than back at the ramp.

One more thing, We didnt just get to the launch site and head straight out, We met there at 5:30 (I was a little later) and watched the conditions until almost 7 am before launching, there was no rushed decision made at all.

Lee


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## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

occy said:


> What was the prob with the rudder? If it was a broken cord it's a very timely reminder that we should all regularly check and replace worn parts on mechanical stuff.


Occy, you are the third person to express an interest in this question. Lets hope you get an answer.


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## Shorty (May 11, 2008)

Is the guy on the Profish a member here ? Whats his take on the situation if he is .


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## youngfisho (Feb 13, 2008)

Well my first post,

just sent the sunshie coast media a link to this site so they could get the real story.

andrew


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## Prawndog (Jan 9, 2008)

What I like about this site, is that except for very rare occassions, the debate is open, honest, harmless and not demeaning. Wish the rest of the world could take note.

At least the story is not about a bunch of pissed idiots in a stink boat killing someone else. The risk is all ours with minimum impact on the rest of the boating community.

cheers to yak fishn.

PD


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## rawprawn (Aug 31, 2005)

Do me a favour. If I ever die fishing from my kayak in adverse weather, just wave me good bye with fond memories and know I died doing something I love. Don't post how I took too great a risk or cost the community too much money etc etc. I guarantee I'll cost the community far more if I live to 90 and have to get my enlarged prostate drained and my arse wiped by some over qualified imported nurse.

This country is turning into a nanny state. And it the community outrage and media beat ups that are driving it. There is a large slice of the community who are head shaking as soon as in their opinion somebody takes a risk with their personal safety.

There are those who shake their heads when I go to sea in a kayak in perfect conditions. They think I'm mad to head out in such a small craft. How many generations will it be before this is seen as too risky and regulated to death. Taking some calculated risks in life is what makes a life interesting. It's also what gives us our national and personal character. Slowly but surly we are becoming an over regulated bunch of girls (no offence intended ladies) who don't step out side in the rain without hankey, brolley and the appropriate personal and liability insurance.

End of rant

Good trip report thanks.


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## paulo (Nov 1, 2007)

Well I fish this area regularly and I would have gone out in those conditions. It looked fine to me and after all, unlike many of those quick to make comment here, it is YOUR backyard. Gear failure can happen anywhere but its not the end of the world. There were 3 or 4 backup plans for all three to safely get to the beach. 
The mistake you guys made was tying up to the marker. That is of course illegal but in no means and indication of distress. 
Unfortunately there are too many people in this world only too ready to judge YOUR situation by their own pathetic limitations. People are currently doing it to you from within our own ranks.
I dont have any problem with any of your actions and would have done exactly the same.
I also note the performance of the pedals over the paddles in the wind and slop. From my experience this is the same as still water rowing. The effect of the wind against the paddle\oar dramatically decreases your performance in these conditions and tires you out quickly.


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## viking1 (May 28, 2008)

Hey thanks for the invite guys, I was really keen to go out, I was the first one there, but I was not going out in that howling freezing wind, too uncomfortable, too hard to fish. I will be just as keen to join you some other time though, hopefully better conditions.

Cheers,
Ken.


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## rob316 (Oct 2, 2007)

paulo - what was their 3 or 4 backup plans then....whats wrong with a break down of others views...no-one has personnally attacked their actions , just questioned them...
Lee , TerryH and company - I have not personnally met you guys , but have followed your exploits by reading many reports etc , and know your love of fishing , kayaking and adventures is well planned and usually of good quility results - Al has high regards for your skills and personna and he is usually a good pick of character , ha also has great situational awareness and regard for safety so I don't doubt his opinion or views to often...nor have i attacked your decisions or ability to cope with the trip conditions....I may have questioned some things , even supported different actions , but thats what good about this forum - it gives others a chance to gain experience and take notes for their future endevours....my post from page 2 still stands and is more related to the question of media bashing , authority response , 3rd party intervention and the time to reflect on the experience . 
I still believe the media done their job , the 3rd parties who made the calls were concerned for your safety at all times , the police rescue officers would rather respond and find no problem but still see you safely return than don their wetsuits later and look for body burly due to machoism in regards to a wrong response ..
we don't want newbies reading this forum thinking you are invincable in a kayak , nor do we want to scare others away from experiencing the sport due to thinking its dangerous..its a fine line and this thread gives everyone the opportunity to experience different situations through the eyes and ears of others fortunes and adversities...and always remember - experience is no substitute for luck !!


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## petanquedon (May 27, 2008)

From a marketing point of view warrantee has nothing to do with quality or potential life of the product.

It is a way of transferring the risk and giving the purchaser confidence that if there is some sort of manufacturing fault that it will not be the customer's problem.

If it cheaper (more profitable) to make a robust product that is unlikely to never break or to make an adequate product that may occasionally fail would depend on many things.

I will suggest if you are in a difficult situation the thought of not having to pay to get this fixed is a small consolation.

I would agree that you should have a plan that allows for gear failure.

Logically if people are blaming something like a broken rudder on their problems it suggests that the alternative plan was inadequate in some way.

It is always easy to be wise with hindsight.

And a trip report like

"We went to the beach the weather was too rough so we didn't even unpack the gear.

So we went to a local bakery and had a pie, coffee and a good chat."

Would never make the news

If it would have been a more pleasant way to spend the morning in question would be a personal thing.

(It may also depend on how good the coffee is :lol: )


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## Zed (Sep 18, 2006)

You Aussies are so tough the media HAS to play it up or else all you would have is reports of people crossing the roads against traffic, or a rabid marsupial in the cellar.

Good thread, thanks. Seems everyone had their heads on straight. Maybe the containership capt was feelin' it so he though you guys MUST be.
Offshores (winds) scare me, too, but it's also pretty amazing how much headway one can make paddling into stiff wind. Almost seems against the laws of physics. I feel even the rods up in holders is drag so I take down all my superstructure and take a tack so that the wind hits your body like a wing/sail and pushes sort of side-long.

Thanks again, I appreciated the read.

Z


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## Sunhobie (Jun 22, 2006)

People jump out of aeroplanes, climb mountains and do all sorts of dangerous things that scare the bejesus out of me. Not only am I scared of heights but I have very little understanding of these things. These activities seem very foolhardy to me, probably because of my ignorance. I don't support moves to stop them even if its not my cup of tea. 

On the other hand I feel quite at ease on the ocean because I have spent a lot of time there.

Many observers think we are mad going to sea in little boats. Men have always gone to sea in little boats.

I know two of the three muskateers involved in this episode and I think they are experienced enough to know their limits.
Good on you boys. I'm all for a bit of *"Adventure"* as long as no one loses an eye. ;-)

The media is all over anything to do with boating and mishaps. There are many knuckleheads attempting to win the Darwin award whilst misusing some kind of boat. (What about the guys who had to stick their finger in the esky they were clinging to for 15hrs after their transom tore clean off their boat miles from land last week?)
The public does have cause to complain when people do foolhardy things that endanger the lives of rescue authorities.
This was not the case.
Tying the stricken craft off to the beacon temporarily showed good sense.
Keeping together was sensible.
*Using 4lb line to catch 70cm snapper is just plain foolish!*


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## Physhopath (Jun 21, 2007)

Sunhobie said:


> Many observers think we are mad going to sea in little boats. Men have always gone to sea in little boats.
> 
> The media is all over anything to do with boating and mishaps. There are many knuckleheads attempting to win the Darwin award whilst misusing some kind of boat. (What about the guys who had to stick their finger in the esky they were clinging to for 15hrs after their transom tore clean off their boat miles from land last week?)
> The public does have cause to complain when people do foolhardy things that endanger the lives of rescue authorities.
> ...


That about sums up my thoughts as well, Competent seamen in their crafts looking out for each other,

LMAO at the end but :lol: ( I can't catch a 30cm bream on 4lb  )


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Sounds like a storm in a tea cup - it could have got hairy but you guys were several steps away from that before you decided to head in. All i can say it was good that people were looking out for you - better to be safe in the ocean than dead !!! Davey Gs point about meeting with the Rozzers is a good one and maybe they might even take up the sport too !!! Thats what we need more yakfishing old bill that can keep an eye on all those dodgy stinkboaters !!!!


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## Baldy (Oct 1, 2007)

paulo said:


> Unfortunately there are too many people in this world only too ready to judge YOUR situation by their own pathetic limitations. People are currently doing it to you from within our own ranks.


This thread was going well untill I got to this bit.

Everyone has different limits and its up to each person to know their own, just because someone doesnt match up to your standards Paulo, doesnt make them pathetic.

Personally, I dont see any real harm in the whole thing, I agree kayaks can handle alot more than a non kayaker gives them credit for.[even experienced boaters] But its allways easy to sit back and see things you might have done differently after the fact. Only 2 things imo, not tied off to the marker and stuck with the guy paddling all the way back, let him sit on your tail and act as a slight wind break. Theres no harm in the fella saying hes struggling a bit with a broken rudder, if all 3 of you were there when the police got to him, it might have been easier to explain the rudder problem and that you were all heading in together, safety in numbers and all that.

I dont mean to state the obvious but I havnt seen anyone else mention it.....If you cant paddle back, I'd be thinking twice about going there, unless of course your on another planet where mirage drives are bulletproof ;-)

Cheers
Baldy


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## bazzoo (Oct 17, 2006)

Yep Baldy thats about the way i feel about the whole situation , we had a "discussion "last night on the chat and spoke to Terry and Lee, i have folowed their threads on here for some time and i believe both are good guys and very responsible as well as being able to handle their kayaks , my only sore point was and is , i felt they should have paddled right in front or beside the fellow with the dud rudder , and chaperoned him right in , not at a distance and keeping an eye on him . But we could hypothesise forever on here about the wrongs and rights of what happened , but the main thing was that all are safe and im sure after Lee has a chat to the water police and offers them a ride on his Adventure , he will undoubtedly convince them to join us , especially if he shows them some of the photos of the fish he catches


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

----

QlpoOTFBWSZTWXgSA10AACPfgAAQUIeAEiCCFAo/7/+gMADGBFT9MFJo9TaE0zU2kwNEMMjTTTIwmRgmgMDVP0EU9TYpoGTRoBk0UIO7bSo+9cbIs8UCSwLdGKYtIXtwnlNanLTuThJljXS993fqGggZ/MLzEMYqiXDqbxKNXojvdPMismIUNgLvbGzU42kN1u+tk12yZdKidGsJsOmi+NMuTeN8qk7UWHxFNQq0S+1ouES0bjBsJyFBfjg1dg85sJvfHdWUGMzdAPJFWUs30hFcTMIjNKwBiOPqP7zdqIuOBbKiuOBDzKCn8XckU4UJB4EgNdA=


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## TerryH (Aug 29, 2007)

Lol Come on Sunhobie, I've got a crack at a big snapper out there on 4lbs  There's only 1 marker out there to bust me up on, so with a suitable sized leader it's only a matter of patience.


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## pcsolutionman (Apr 9, 2007)

Baldy said:


> paulo said:
> 
> 
> > I dont mean to state the obvious but I havnt seen anyone else mention it.....If you cant paddle back, I'd be thinking twice about going there, unless of course your on another planet where mirage drives are bulletproof ;-)
> ...


Mate Both Terry and I have paddled far further in worse conditions, it would not bother me in the least if I had to paddle back. I used to have a Tempo and Ill tell yah Paddling it out 6 or 7 ks against wind and current is a lot harder than paddling the Revo or adventure back in.

Lee


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

----

QlpoOTFBWSZTWdDqAE8AAC5fgAAQUKX0CghkHAo/7/+wMADGMNU2mieqYTajTIaZlB5TTIBFDTQHqDIA0ZBpoADQhNqj0j1HpNNAA0GnqeiHeQx+qiyjSNQYzUJ4lDPcXSJ6y5bZ6nNQaLCxaeaIgMU4P60YNndCa47OJC2VcKRMxSKGWRKeTw1awLHGK9n2o952s29UexAoQZmURXohzrmYcMsHXOj4ZeUxJ5nFSbL8xqHjl01yhNVwgEJxmS7oMBuOtHReKUQhgoiwIdvG+kSD2oRmLBK6wSgVZrZJouDWiplQaexH4xQfA+JAEmISg4P4u5IpwoSGh1ACeA==


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

----

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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

redphoenix said:


> Dunno if this was the problem though.


Of this much we can be sure.

And until someone tells us there is a cloud over the product


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## Nodds (Feb 28, 2007)

Lee told me he was sending a pm to Craig to find out exactly what caused the problem with the rudder, Lee said "it was as if the ruder had twisted some how" they would have checked it out at the ramp if not for the reporters being all over them. Lee will post as soon as he finds out the exact nature of the failure.

cheers nodds


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## TerryH (Aug 29, 2007)

redphoenix said:


> TerryH said:
> 
> 
> > Lol Come on Sunhobie, I've got a crack at a big snapper out there on 4lbs  There's only 1 marker out there to bust me up on, so with a suitable sized leader it's only a matter of patience.
> ...


There's nothing to bust me up on .. :S


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## Baldy (Oct 1, 2007)

Yeah Ive got no doubt about that Lee, I didnt mean you fellas in particular, just mirage drive users in general. Its pretty obvious they are much easier to use in strong wind compared to a paddle and alot of people are starting in a pedal hobie as their first kayak. Without the chance to build a bit of a paddle stroke, it could be easy to bite off more than you can chew if something did go wrong with the pedals.

Oh and if you guys are thinking you are protecting the good name of viking[profish] by not talking about the problem with the rudder, you couldnt be more wrong imo, mentioning it in the first place then saying nothing will hurt the image more than whatever problem was there.....am I the only one who thinks like this? I dont mean to have a crack at Viking but really, if this were a prowler/malibu, without a Rep on the forum, why do I get the feeling they would be getting roasted about now! Dont get me wrong, airing your dirty laundry on here isnt the best way to go about a problem, I agree that its best dealt with privately. But its too late on this case now, it doesnt matter if it turned itself inside out or was very minor, the speculation must be worse than the actual problem im guessing ;-)

At the end of the day.....storm in a teacup ;-) Will it be the last one we see.....hell no  :lol:

Cheers
Baldy


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## Astro (Nov 27, 2006)

bazzoo said:


> Y i felt they should have paddled right in front or beside the fellow with the dud rudder , and chaperoned him right in , not at a distance and keeping an eye on him .


i too am glad all are safe but have to agree 100% with bazzoo...for me it's rule #1...stick together...
a simple bow line to terry would have allowed him to paddle in with the front yak giving direction...

yes it is a storm in a teacup...but please remember stick together out there and be safe..


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2008)

Baldy said:


> .....am I the only one who thinks like this? I dont mean to have a crack at Viking but really, if this were a prowler/malibu, without a Rep on the forum, why do I get the feeling they would be getting roasted about now!


no you are not the only one that thinks this. Its just the ones who do couldnt be bothered mentioning it because once a brand gains immunity from discussion of their faults it seems to be a constant battle and debate and is like walking on glass.


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

keljad said:


> no you are not the only one that thinks this. Its just the ones who do couldnt be bothered mentioning it because once a brand gains immunity from discussion of their faults it seems to be a constant battle and debate and is like walking on glass.


I thinks its important that all potential faults with yaks be discussed and I say screw those that have an interest in the manufacturers... its a cruel sea out there and I need to know what could go wrong with the craft that I might be peddling / paddling. This forum should be about sharing that knowledge and we should feel free to air our views on the gear we use - for better or for worse !!!!! Maybe some of the gear we use is not really designed for some of the extremes that its being put through.... but I'd like to to have a good idea before hand in order for me to take the precautions that maybe required.

Another point for me thats already be touched upon is if your mirage drive breaks down in a decent blow are you fit enough / skilled enough to paddle safely home........ another one which really concerns me have you tried your re entry technique with your yak fully rigged up ie with your rods in position / fishinder in place all the teathers.... the crate your flag etc etc - its highly unlikely because its all going to get we and possibly damaged......... so if you do fall out .... we have to get back on to a fully loaded yak with all our gear in the way.... any how food for thought.....


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## GOF (Dec 10, 2006)

How big was the 'massive media beatup' - after the initial T.V. news report even the Sunshine Coast Daily only gave the incident a couple of paragraphs on an inside page! I doubt that it would have got a mention most other places.
Pleased everyones unscathed & lessons learnt there for all of us.
Cheers - G.O.F.


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## pcsolutionman (Apr 9, 2007)

Guys Ill shoot Craig a Pm and im sure he will jump on and explain what went wrong with the rudder for himself

Lee


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## AndyC (Feb 29, 2008)

Hey Lee,

Let me start by saying that I don't give a shzt about how I or my personal standards are viewed by my fellow humans. I hope most of us have sufficient confidence to feel the same way. Just needed to get that off my chest first 

I just want to tell you that I really do admire the way you have handled yourself all the way through this thread. With so many of us postulating over what might and what might not have been ... what should or shouldn't etc etc etc ad nauseum, it must have been very tempting at times to tell us all where to go. You stuck with this and have shared information openly, even where it might even have brought yet more 'opinions' (like the bit about the jumper over the PFD, in future). You haven't once lowered yourself to making personal attacks against any of your critics. Its a shame that not all of us choose to follow your example and rely on logical discussion over personal slurs 

As tedious as it seems, it really is great that information like this is openly shared, so's we might all learn from it. In that respect, we should all be grateful for your openness and honesty. I think it would certainly be good if Craig could maybe put up a post regarding what exactly went wrong with his rudder. I think we are all curious about that.

Anyway, just wanted to say, well done Mate.

Cheers,

AndyC


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## pcsolutionman (Apr 9, 2007)

Thanks Andy, I have sent Craig a PM on BFO waiting on a reply hopefully he will sign up and have his say.

Lee


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## Wattie (Apr 30, 2007)

Well I don't care any more......  I opened a can at the beginning of the post and am on my 8th can now...what a great read ;-)

Just kidding.

Good food for thought though........me, well I would have not gone out here in Esperance under such conditions.

The weather here changes too quickly. :?


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## Marty (Mar 18, 2007)

AndyC said:


> Hey Lee,
> 
> I just want to tell you that I really do admire the way you have handled yourself all the way through this thread. With so many of us postulating over what might and what might not have been ... what should or shouldn't etc etc etc ad nauseum, it must have been very tempting at times to tell us all where to go. You stuck with this and have shared information openly, even where it might even have brought yet more 'opinions' (like the bit about the jumper over the PFD, in future). You haven't once lowered yourself to making personal attacks against any of your critics. Its a shame that not all of us choose to follow your example and rely on logical discussion over personal slurs
> 
> ...


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## bazzoo (Oct 17, 2006)

Andyc , i have to agree with you regarding the professional way Lee has carried himself througth this whole thread , and he had a pre thread session with some of us on the chat after his very first post , and even though it sometimes got a bit warm on there , Lee kept his cool and was very polite and helpful , Your a good man Lee, i havnt met you , but would hope to do so one day and buy you a beer ,and thats about the best compliment one aussie can give another , well done mate .


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## fisherdan (Apr 17, 2007)

Glad you are all ok.


youngfisho said:


> Well my first post,
> 
> just sent the sunshie coast media a link to this site so they could get the real story.
> 
> andrew


Well now all you sunshiners don't have to log on to check out our fishing reports and secret spots, you can read it all in the paper like everyone else...


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## paulo (Nov 1, 2007)

Ouch.. that's the last time I post after four pots at lunchtime. What I wrote was hurriedly written, poorly worded and did not convey what I was trying to say. I hadn't read the majority of the comments when I posted but was making a general statement about situations like this. When I mentioned pathetic I wasn't referring to people on this forum but rather average jo in his armchair, whose sum total of weekly exercise equates to taking the garbage bins to the footpath and back. These are the people that lap up the sensationalist rubbish the media writes and shake their head that anyone would be stupid enough to go a few kms offshore and fish. 
When I referred to people here judging the actions of the boys, I did not mean to insult anyone. By making comment and offering suggestions we all judged their actions, me included. Our only means of discerning whether their decision to go out was the right thing to do is to use our own personal limits. Everyone is different. We do this all day every day. Look at a situation and make a call on what we know and our depth of experience.
Where you fish is irrelevant. Fishing offshore, in estuaries or in lakes all have their own inherent challenges and dangers. To suggest one form is of a different standard is not a notion I had ever thought of. Everyone on this forum is out there doing it. That's the only "standard" I know of. 
The message I was trying to convey was much better written by SunHobie. Had I taken more time and less beer to write the post it would have sounded more like his. There are many pursuits where imho the dangers far outway the rewards and I would never dream of doing such things due to my own personal limitations. But I don't think people are crazy for doing them, nor would I castigate them for making a call that I would not have or tut-tut when a mishap occurs during their pursuit.
I now have a yellow Post-It note on my screen reminding me not to log onto the forum after a boozy lunch.


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## Alex (Aug 28, 2006)

Hi every body,
In leiu of Craig not currently being a member of this forum, I would like to take it upon myself to explain his rudder issue.
The Profish that Craig has was one of the first one's bought last Xmas, it was a Profish fitted with the retractable 'predator' rudder system which is no longer used on the Profish.
I would like to state that:

*THE RUDDER SYSTEM ON HIS KAYAK WAS NOT OPERATIONAL BEFORE HE WENT OUT, AND DID NOT BREAK DURING THE TRIP.
HE HAS BEEN TOLD \ REMINDED ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS BEFORE THIS TRIP, BY ME, TO COME AND HAVE THE RUDDER SYSTEM REPAIRED, AND HE HAS NOT DONE SO.*

It is up to an individual to ensure that ones craft is in proper working order before undertaking any trip.
There are also two points of note on the 'caution' graphic that is on each Viking Kayak that could be applied to this.

This rudder system is no longer fitted to the profish, the external rudder is now used, for ease of use, to facilitate the retro fit of the rudder system, and to allow a eletric moter to be mounted.

Craig came to see me straight after he got back from this trip and relayed his story, and I would welcome him to come and tell it here.
I hope that this clears this up.

Kind Regards
Alex Bennett


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## Sunhobie (Jun 22, 2006)

wopfish said:


> Another point for me thats already be touched upon is if your mirage drive breaks down in a decent blow are you fit enough / skilled enough to paddle safely home........ .


And while we are on the subject, I would like to know if you are fit enough to swim home if you break or lose your paddle!! :twisted:


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Sunhobie said:


> I would like to know if you are fit enough to swim home if you break or lose your paddle!! :twisted:


I agree - its something you need to consider - and yes I believe I could swim the distance required...( its something I take onto account and when I start to inch out towards the horizon the though brings me back in) regardless of being paddle less or peddle less...........  

For safetys sake I teather my paddle and keep an emergency break down paddle in the yak...............

Do many peddlars keep an emergency mirage drive spare in the yak ??????


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## Sunhobie (Jun 22, 2006)

wopfish said:


> Sunhobie said:
> 
> 
> > I would like to know if you are fit enough to swim home if you break or lose your paddle!! :twisted:
> ...


Good answer Wopfish.
Do the peddlers have a spare Mirage drive? I doubt it, but they do have a paddle as backup. I am a little dumbfounded by your attempt to turn a paddling problem into a pedalling one.
Swim 3ks against a stiff westerly?........Not me brother!!! The Water Police would have had to rescue me from the top of that damn beacon!


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

wopfish said:


> I am a little dumbfounded by your attempt to turn a paddling problem into a pedalling one.


I think the reason that you are dumbfounded is that it was never an attempt to turn a paddling problem into a pedalling one - yes I did digress from the main point of the topic........ but the point of being able to paddle your way back home from a failure of the drive should be considered.... just the same as trying to re enter your yak with all your gear on.............just the same as loosing your paddle !!!! my conerns are about the possible issues that may arise when off shore..... considering them now on the forum and thinking about them on dry land.............

Maybe I should have posted a seperate thread in the safety section..........

Anyhow safe peddaling and paddeling.....

:lol:


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## 30HA (Apr 24, 2008)

pcsolutionman said:


> *I really dont see what the big fuss is TBO, In the hobies even in 30 knot winds *and against Current I can still maintain 6-7klms an hour no problems all day long, we had water, food Mobile phones etc if we thought we were in any danger we could have called for help at any stage.
> I think its simply a matter of guys in big boats not realising that us in our Yaks can handle far worse conditions than u might think. * I have and will again head out in conditions like that it was by no mean too dangerous IMO. I have been offshore many many times, in worse conditions as has Terry, * The reports from some of the Media that this was Craigs first trip offshore were false he has been off of cape moreton and Double island in conditions similar. If you could see some of the conditions other yakkers go out in overseas and here you would consider the conditions we went out in mild. * We did not blame the forecast we simply took it as a guide as it should be.* We headed out in conditions we thought were easily manageable and of course u take into account that it could worsen, but this can happen anytime, for example. Paul (nodds) and I were 6 klms off of currimundi fishng currimundi reef, the forecast was for 5 knots and -1M swell we headed out it was perfect about an hour after arriving on the reef a bad storm cam in from the east and whipped up the wind and sea to probly 2M and 20-30 knots, we immediately packed up and headed in, We managed to maintain 9klms hour all the way back and were on shore in probly 40 mins, yes it was rough but we never felt in danger. The Weather can change at anytime thats the risk u take when heading out in any size boat. But Ill tell yeah one thing id rather be caught out there in rough conditions in my Adventure than any 15 foot tinny.
> 
> Lee


Sorry, but if we all shared that attitude it would only be a matter of time when something serious really did happen.



wopfish said:


> I thinks its important that all potential faults with yaks be discussed and I say screw those that have an interest in the manufacturers... its a cruel sea out there and I need to know what could go wrong with the craft that I might be peddling / paddling. This forum should be about sharing that knowledge and we should feel free to air our views on the gear we use - for better or for worse !!!!! Maybe some of the gear we use is not really designed for some of the extremes that its being put through.... but I'd like to to have a good idea before hand in order for me to take the precautions that maybe required.
> 
> Another point for me thats already be touched upon is if your mirage drive breaks down in a decent blow are you fit enough / skilled enough to paddle safely home........ another one which really concerns me have you tried your re entry technique with your yak fully rigged up ie with your rods in position / fishinder in place all the teathers.... the crate your flag etc etc - its highly unlikely because its all going to get we and possibly damaged......... so if you do fall out .... we have to get back on to a fully loaded yak with all our gear in the way.... any how food for thought.....


Spot on! 
I think a good idea is to practice every now and then with your rudder disengaged.


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

----

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## Lincolnmoone (Nov 24, 2007)

unlucky better luck next time


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## Baldy (Oct 1, 2007)

Yeah good on ya Paulo, I'll take a bit of responsability there, I havnt met you but have read most of your reports and I should have given ya the benifit of the doubt and not just took it on face value......jeez I have enough trouble explaining myself half the time and yeah whats rattling around in my head isnt allways what comes out of my fingers after a sixpack or 2 :lol:

Alot gets lost in text and people end up splitting hairs, Like I know hobies have a paddle as well and I know you can break or lose your paddle But that wasnt the point, a mirage drive and a paddle are vastly different means of propulsion[even more so in strong wind]. A paddler will be using the back up paddle, it will most likely be a cheap two piece thing but your paddle technique will be the same.[if your going offshore without a spare paddle then more fool you]

Its funny how most things end up being a peddal Vs paddle battle, I love shitstirring the blokes I know with hobies but its allways tongue in cheek :twisted: :lol: I actually like them, I like the service the owners get and I think the mirage drive is very clever.....do I want one? Nope.....I like paddling...I like the no fuss nature of a stick with flat bits on the ends :lol:

Would I make John, Scott or James tow me home if I was really struggling in the wind and they are doing it easy.....hell yes :shock: :lol:

Gday Alex

Thanks for the clarification mate , the reason I asked is I figure preventative measures are better than waiting for something to go wrong. A good example with my prowler is the wire rudder cables, where they have the shrink wrap at the ends and where it goes into those rubber sleeves into the hull.....they are all perfect breeding spots for rust, out of sight out of mind kind of thing. I give them a spray with inox after each trip to the salt....for something that takes 30secs its well worth it I reckon. Nothing lasts forever and in years to come if it was going to break, I'd expect it to break at one of those points.

So ya won some points for explaining the fella knew about the problem, but then lost some for not explaining what the actual problem was! :lol: I can understand where your coming from and if its some obscure thing that was at fault theres no need to worry the people who are using that setup.

But then theres the other side of the coin, if something broke on my kayak and I thought it could be prevented easily just by keeping an eye on it or some form of maintenance, then the kayak dealer can talk till hes blue in the face....because Im going to talk about it here. After all thats what this place is for and I'd feel selfish for keeping it to myself.

Good healthy thread this one, its not like something like this will never happen again, hopefully we have covered some ground this time that might help with another happy ending like these fellas had ;-)

Must add good on the mods for letting it run its course too, plenty of other forums would have had this locked up tighter than a fishes backside 8) 8)

Cheers
Baldy


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## Zed (Sep 18, 2006)

Am I seeing that you (anyone) would ditch your yak completely and swim if you broke a paddle?
Never ditch your boat unless it sinks beneath you. And even then it will still float. You could never get me off my floating yak. Even if I got tossed by a whale or shark my dead-man leash would keep me close.

A little story by my dad about his broken paddle.


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## Sunhobie (Jun 22, 2006)

Zed said:


> Am I seeing that you (anyone) would ditch your yak completely and swim if you broke a paddle?


Zed,
No of course not! I was only taking the P1ss out of Woppie. Thats my warped Aussie sense of humour at work.
The only time you abandon your boat is when you have to step up into the liferaft!


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## petanquedon (May 27, 2008)

So it wasn't bad luck his rudder broke because it was broken before he left the beach.

What is bad luck and what is bad management?

Do people tend to externalize bad things that happen to them and internalise good things that happen to them?

I don't have enough information to tell and even then my opinion may be different to other people.

Have the people involved (and those who read the forum) learnt something?

Or would they go and do exactly the same tomorrow?

I suppose it really is none of my business.

Certainly this thread has given me something to reflect on and I have found it interesting and useful.

Economists suggest that faced with uncertainty you should have a conservative plan.

And you thought kayak fishing and the share market were unrelated. :?


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## Wattie (Apr 30, 2007)

My God this would have to go as Thread of the year...... ;-)


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2008)

Going offshore knowing that your rudder does not work, now that could be seen in a different light. :shock:

Something I'd never do(go off shore) if my kayak was not 100 percent seaworthy.

Something to think about there ;-), the lure of Snapper was too much 

Cheers


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## Zed (Sep 18, 2006)

Gotcha sunhobie. I said you guys were tough, so...maybe you weren't joking. :lol:

PS How long is the Viking? I mean I have a P13 and have rented P15's and I don't use a rudder. *ducks*
Maybe I've suffered a little more than necessary, but I never felt I was in peril (no pun).


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## pcsolutionman (Apr 9, 2007)

Well Guys on a brighter note Terry and I headed out to the same spot yesterday and brained the snapper including a big PB for me :lol: :lol: :lol: conditions were 1.3-1.5m on a 2M SE swell bu with little to now wind conditions were great ad the fish were biting hard. I went for another swim :shock: :shock: but my choice this time, this will make a great report so wait for the read

Lee


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## rawprawn (Aug 31, 2005)

pcsolutionman said:


> Well Guys on a brighter note Terry and I headed out to the same spot yesterday and brained the snapper including a big PB for me :lol: :lol: :lol: conditions were 1.3-1.5m on a 2M SE swell bu with little to now wind conditions were great ad the fish were biting hard. I went for another swim :shock: :shock: but my choice this time, this will make a great report so wait for the read
> 
> Lee


Well done Lee


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## bazzoo (Oct 17, 2006)

Good onya Lee, and if you get snapper any bigger , i'm coming up there to be your caddy :lol:


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