# EPIRBS for Kayaks



## Wdctr

Hi,

Has anyone come across an EPIRB that can fit in a life jacket pocket?

The ones I've seen so far are too big to carry, unless I put them in the hatch. In a kayak this seems a bit pointless, as if I need rescuing I'm either seperated from the boat or conditions will be too bad to open a hatch.

I've found beacons, but these are not legally recognised as EPIRBS.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Warwick


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## dru

There are some guys that say you need EPIRB if travelling more than 2 miles off shore. Fine for stinkers, but in a yak I just dont buy it. Surely some common sense must apply? There is simply no EPIRB suitable for yak mounting and then what if you are separated? No EPIRB fits your pocket.

A PLB (personal locator beacon) on the other hand... Whitworth are advertising GME Acusat 406 MHz for $470. Accuracy 5 km (may be better, but that is the claim). GME Acusat +GPS is $600. That'll do me. Problem is GME cant manufacture enough and the wait list doesnt come with a delivery date. I cant find any other PLB (with GPS) for less than $850. Think I'll wait for the GME.

The GME 406 without GPS will fit in my PFD pocket, with GPS will be bigger, but should be OK. Next trick is to find somewhere on the PFD to sew a new pocket where the antenae will be vertical and out of the water.

dru


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## Wdctr

I agree, unfortunatly law enforcement officials are not known for their common sense when faced with the decision of whether to fine you or not.

I like the SPOT beacon, particularly the ability to call for help from home before calling out the cavalry. Does anyone know how to get PLBs approved for small craft - windsurfers, kayaks and the like?


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## MrFaulty

i don't think you need to get them approved - just sell a kidney to buy one.

I wonder if you can use the gps to mark your favourite fishing spots!!??


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## mattisse

found this device - looks right and also the price -link:
http://www.marinedeal.com/product_p/c10008.htm
8)


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## Astro

mattisse said:


> found this device - looks right and also the price -link:
> http://www.marinedeal.com/product_p/c10008.htm
> 8)


sorry mate needs to 406mhz


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## Feral

Epirbs in Yaks offshore are like oars in a 5m boat - totally useless, but required by law. (Just a lot more expensive)

I dunno if you are required to have a "working" Epirb, so maybe in a couple of years you can pick up one with a dead battery cheap and toss it inside the hull to make you legal, but until then, $5-600 of ballast, because thats all they are good for.


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## Junglefisher

dru, this mob reckon they have them in stock, but you pay for the privelidge http://www.ja-gps.com.au/epirb_mt410_plb.htm
This one http://www.kti.com.au/minisat406gps.htm should be as good or better for the same or less money, once they get approval. Supposed to be July this year.


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## dru

Junglefisher said:


> dru, this mob reckon they have them in stock, but you pay for the privelidge http://www.ja-gps.com.au/epirb_mt410_plb.htm
> This one http://www.kti.com.au/minisat406gps.htm should be as good or better for the same or less money, once they get approval. Supposed to be July this year.


Hey - look at that, just like mine! I did manage to get it afterall - in stock at Whitworths if you are chasing.


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## Bartek

I have been told that PLB's do not satisfy the requirement to carry an EPIRB, does anyone know if any of these PLB's can satisfy the 48hr battery life to qualify as an EPIRB?


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## dru

Bartek said:


> I have been told that PLB's do not satisfy the requirement to carry an EPIRB, does anyone know if any of these PLB's can satisfy the 48hr battery life to qualify as an EPIRB?


When they sell it you are warned the PLB "does not meet maritime requirements for EPIRBs". I dont keep it for regulatory purposes, but because it seems to me to be a good precaution in a yak outside of estuaries. Actually in my case (Moreton Bay) the mobile in a waterproof clipped on the PFD and with predial Coast Guard is probably a better safety measure. From recollection the PLB gives 24 hours emergency broadcast (you would need to check that though).

I understand that the real advantage of EPIRB is because they are attached to the boat they stay above water longer and therefore transmit longer. A PLB attached to a person in the water needs to be kept out of the water for clear broadcast ie hold it above your head or something. If you have not been picked up in 24 hours survival is slipping fast.

Feel free to attach an EPIRB to your yak. I wonder has _anyone actually done that? Bound to be someone here. I have said before, imvho pointless overkill and probably of less use than a PLB. If you are not on your yak, what is the point of them looking for it? If you are on your yak the PLB will do the job._


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## justcrusin

One big problem with these guys an they are a great personal saftey device.

Check with your local Volunteer marine rescue Unit to see if they have the equipment to locate you after its turned on. Somebody has to buy the directional finders an at a few grand each most of the VMR's I used to be with won't be able to afford it.

Water police units would have them but if the rest of the country is like NSW there are only a few ports that have a dedicated 24hr police pressance. Other than that is up to the volunteers.



> Epirbs in Yaks offshore are like oars in a 5m boat - totally useless, but required by law


Why is this Feral, if you are able to turn on the satillite units, canberra will have a message of an epirb activation an resource would be notified within a few minutes. How far they are from you is again like I said above.

Cheers Dave


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## Shufoy

Bartek said:


> I have been told that PLB's do not satisfy the requirement to carry an EPIRB, does anyone know if any of these PLB's can satisfy the 48hr battery life to qualify as an EPIRB?


In WA the rules do say this, it has to be an EPIRB not a PLB. There is even a list on the gov site with the brands that are accepted!



WA Marine Information said:


> Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacons (EPIRBs - AS/NZS 4280.1)
> 406 MHz distress beacons designed for maritime use are labled as EPIRB (AS/NZS 4280.1). EPIRBs are designed to operate most effectively when activated in the water. They are required to operate for a minimum of 48 hours and float upright when deployed.
> 
> Personal Locator Beacons (PLBs - AS/NZS 4280.2)
> PLBs (AS/NZS 4280.2) are portable units that operate in much the same way as EPIRBs. They are used by bushwalkers, 4 wheel drivers and other land based adventurers. They are small and compact enough to fit into pockets.
> 
> Some PLBs have been incorrectly sold as EPIRBs and this has resulted in confusion within the market. PLBs are only required to operate for a minimum of 24 hours. More importantly, although they are required to float, PLBs do not need to float in a manner that keeps the antenna above the water thereby meaning that a survivor must ensure the beacon is supported clear of the water.
> 
> For these reasons, PLBs, no matter how they are labelled, will not be accepted by the Department as an approved EPIRB for use in Western Australian waters.


You can ring and argue the rule, or email them, but the response is always no.


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## yankatthebay

NSW Maritime says Kayaks are exempt from needing to carry an EPIRB. So those of us in NSW look like we are in the clear on this matter - we can use whatever we want, or nothing if we want that.


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## ELM

Was just flicking through some sites and found this comparison on PLB's, thought it was interesting http://www.gpsaustralia.net/forums/show ... php?t=5025. Also checked out KTi web site, still not available.
Mods, hope the link is ok, remove in necessary.


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## Revo

There are two parts of the 406MHz standard - one for EPIRBs and one for PLBs - and this results in significant differences. EPIRBs have a minimum continuous operation of 48 hours and float upright allowing them to be tied to something that isn't going to sink and left to float free using the water plane as a reflector to improve the propagation of the signal to the satellites. PLBs are only required to operate for a minimum of 24 hours continuously and are not required to float upright meaning that they have to be supported in some way to ensure that the antenna is clear of the water so that the signal can be transmitted. In the maritime market, there is a need for both EPIRBs and PLBs, particularly where Yachting Australia requires boats in category 1 and 2 (Sydney Hobart type races) offshore races to carry an EPIRB *and for each of the crew to carry a PLB*.

A PLB is not required to float, according to the Standard. However, my PLB does float in both fresh and salt water and is waterproof to submersion at 1m (I carry mine on my PFD). A PLB doesn't activate automatically (neither do all EPIRBs), I have to activate it. A PLB is not considered as a substitute for an EPIRB, and an EPIRB is required to be on any 8m+ (I understand this varies depending on your state) boat which is offshore 2 nautical miles or more.

I'm content with having a marine quality PLB instead of an EPIRB for the same reason that marine quality PLBs are recommended for boat crew when on deck - it's all about finding me if I go overboard regardless of where my yak may be. ;-) My PLB is registered with Australian Marine Safety Authority (AMSA) so they can find me - in exactly the same way they can find a boat with an EPIRB. 8)


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## ELM

What sort do you have Revo?


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## Feral

Any boat (registered or not, so that includes yaks) has to have an EPIRB more than 2 nautical miles off the Qld coast. 3 nautical miles and the Federal rules apply, which are more or less the same from memory.


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## Revo

ELM said:


> What sort do you have Revo?


Hi Elm - I have the Accusat MT410G. I chose the G model 'cos of the 45m accuracy - much better than the nonG model which provides 5km accuracy. In my view if I have to use it, I want to be found as quickly as possible! ;-) Other features include 7 year battery life, high visibility strobe light, no warm up period - sends signal as soon as switched on, sealed waterproof design (exceeds IP67), and light and compact.



Feral said:


> Any boat (registered or not, so that includes yaks) has to have an EPIRB more than 2 nautical miles off the Qld coast. 3 nautical miles and the Federal rules apply, which are more or less the same from memory.


Yeah Feral, correct. It's good to see that, at the point of sale, retailers are starting to make this clear. Some state regulations are very clear in relation to kayaks, however others are less clear about safety gear requirements.

My personal choice about PLB vs EPIRB is to go with a PLB for these reasons:

1. To date, my trips beyond 2 nm from shore are only 3 or 4 times a year. If I get caught out by having only a PLB, I'll have to accept that consequence.  
2. No matter whether I activate an EPIRB or a PLB, the AMSA authorities will know about it and arrange a rescue - they do not discriminate between an EPIRB or a PLB in terms of deciding whether to arrange the rescue or not. That's the insurance of having either with you.  
3. For me, I consider that a PLB is more appropriate for a yakfishing situation. I want the device to be with me (whether I am sitting on the yak or I've somehow ended up in the water and separated from the yak) so that I can activate it. I realise that the aerial has to be above the water but I can attach it to my PFD so that I don't have to hold it with my hands all the time. 
4. It's also a useful safety device to have with me on 4WD trips and bushwalking.


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## MrFaulty

I wonder if we organised say 20 paople who wanted to purchase one of the PLB and spoke direct to GMC if we could organise something which would make them more affordable?? who wants one - I don't mind corresponding with GMC if we get numbers as i am best at BS


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## mattyoga

I contacted the WA authorities asking for a derogation on the requirements for an EPIRB saying a PLB was more appropriate for a fishing kayaker and they did not grant it, saying that the Epirb should be fixed to the outside of your yak like other sea kayakers.

So I've now got an epirb as I often go out wide and have been out wide in some remote areas - I have it strapped to the inside of my crate with some bungee so I can grab it if quickly needed. I've also thought about leashing it to myself when sailing the yak solo in remote locations where there are few water users about- a question of balancing the risk of getting tangled in the leash vs the risk of becoming detached from your yak and it sailing away (unlikely I know - but epirbs are all about covering the unlikely situations as a last line of defence).


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