# Raider Rods.....never again (rubbish)



## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

well after backing shitmano for the last year and reccommending the raider rods to everyone i know its all come back to bite me in the arse.
a few weeks ago i noticed that the tip was curving a little, i emailed shimano and they said take it back to where you got it and they can have it looked at under the 12month warranty. Well i did that and they were very negative saying its obviously been left in a hot car etc etc etc. Well he said i can leave it there and have it looked at by shimano but the rep might not be in fpr 6 weeks, so i said dont worry and walked out.

Well went fishing tonite and second cast, bang the top section of the cork grip has snapped in half. 
I feel like taking it in again but i know hes only going to say well you havent lookecd after it if theres now 2 problems.....

what the hell do i do.....does anyone have any idea.....?
i could glue the grip back on use it for another couple of months (hoping it holds together) and then throw it out 
or take it back to my local and see what he says, 
i mean in my opinion he should look after me ive spent hundreds of dollars with his store, Daiwa reels, loomis rods, heaps of lures....

well i know one thing il never buy another shit rod, Loomis or nothing from now on, 
at least they honor their warranty.

il post some pics up shortly


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## craig450 (May 11, 2007)

Mate thats not good at all :evil: Personally i would be arguing till im blue in the face to have it replaced, if there is no sign of sabotage to the rod i would assume that they HAVE to replace it.
If you dont get anywhere with the dealer you bought it from i would try ringing Shimano and telling them whats going on with the rod and the dealer.
If that doesnt work try the ACCC.


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## troutfish (Jun 21, 2007)

hi ben,

i posted here not long ago about problem i had with a rack raider. no blank issue, but i also broke the grip first time i used it. i had bought it from a tackle world store, and i took it back to their shop in tingalpa. they waited for the rep, and it took a week or so, but i did get it replaced. i would try a big stor like BCF, tell them your story, and i'm sure they will help. definatley dont give up!!


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## xerubus (May 17, 2007)

do not just take it on the chin... take it in... get it fixed. It's all about customer service mate.. and if the product has not lived up to it's expectation, let them know.

Personally, I back the Berkley Dropshot rods. Have two and they have been outstanding, and not too many $$$ either.


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## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

heres the pics..


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## troutfish (Jun 21, 2007)

identical fault to mine


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## landyman (Oct 17, 2007)

Fishing Man said:


> heres the pics..


its the Shimano rod rejecting the superior Daiwa reel mate.. :lol: :lol:

seriously though.. dont let them win.. Shimano are (supposedly) well know for their (supposed) excellent after sales service.. kick up a fuss.. call Shimano again.. get the reps phone number..

I have 1 Raider rod.. a Barra Mauler baitcaster.. it's my "bottom basher" , "dont care about", "yeah whatever" rod.. it does its job but definatly not spectacularly like my Black Diamonds

Get it fixed and give it heaps :lol:


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## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

so it does happen,

i reckon im just going to get dicked around and told to leave it with him for the next 6 weeks


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## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

thanks for the tips so far guys..


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## Astro (Nov 27, 2006)

my tactic that works well in these situations is that if you told you need to wait then fine...i'll have my $$$ back and you can wait too...

seriously i find by simply asking in a courteous polite manner is the best method and assertively state your claims...ie this is crap (insert issue) it has not met my expectations and i would like to either refund (with receipt) or exchange (no receipt) i have never had an issue returning faulty items. generally retail outlets want to keep your customer and will there be more inclined to assist if you make them aware of the other items you purcahse: previously and in the future...but i only ever mention it if pushed........

good luck with it......


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## Heath (Nov 15, 2006)

Wouldn't be that tackle shop at Southport would it?

Then once the rep does get it, you'll be dealing with Neville Dark agencies...... I won't go into that one!

To cut to the chase, get onto Shimano in Sydney. One of the Dunphey boys, can't remember his name sorry, but they will sort it.

If you do decide to chuck it, give me a yell & I'll take it off your hands 

Did you know that Shimano own Loomis as well ?


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## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

thanks again guys,

i will take it down there next week,

Heath, i dont think shimano own loomis mate....they are a huge company in the US and get imported into Aus by E.J.Todd


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## fishnfreak (Jun 22, 2007)

you really shouldnt hve a problem getting a new one, i broke mine in the car and i still got a new one, although it did take a week and a half


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## Heath (Nov 15, 2006)

Fishing Man said:


> Heath, i dont think shimano own loomis mate....they are a huge company in the US and get imported into Aus by E.J.Todd


Two very different companies when it comes to Australian distributers, but G-Loomis is a subsidiary of Shimano America.
http://fish.shimano.com/publish/content ... ement.html


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2007)

Heya Ben,

I have two Shimano Raiders, one has been fine so far but I must admit doesnt get alot of use, I use it when fishing for Barra.

The other, which was a River Raider 6'3" Baitcast Rod had the same problem. Twisting the grip when changing the reel and the top half of the grip snapped off.

Didnt bother with Warranty, just ripped it off and kept fishing :?

No such problems so far with my Shimano T-Curve XL tho, the grip of this rod feels to be of a higher standard than the Raiders I have.


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## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

i rang the guys at shimano today and wasnt happy to say the least,
they told me to glue it back together and not to worry about warranty.

I explained that i payed for the quality product and thats what i expected, 
i said to him if i were to glue it not only would this void my warranty but just decrease the chances of getting something else fixed should it go wrong after the warranty ends. His answer to that was he will take a note down that "Ben" is glueing it together and if it breaks before the warranty expires he will give a new one,

im getting close to snapping it over my knee and never buying a single shimano item ever again.

Tomorrow is the dy of truth as il be going to see the guy who sold it to me,
but i cant see myself getting a better response than the dismal one given today.

The thing is that the warranty clearly says they will replace it if theres poor workmanship or a fault with the item within 1 year

The other thing that got me was how he said its not a problem as such as they had only had 5 or 6 raiders returned over the years with this problem, 
and thats out of the thousands getting around all over the country. what an absolute load,
theres more poeple than that on Ausfish and the other fishing forum Im in alone ...

Not happy Jan.


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## deano (Nov 26, 2006)

If you feel strongly enough about it you can take it to small claims court (kind of like the Oz version of Judge Judy). Typically companies such as Shimano will not bother defending the matter because it is cheaper simply to pay out the claim. You will get what is known as a 'default judgment' which simply means you win your entire claim because the opposition couldn't be bothered showing up. Even if you were to lose (which appears impossible in your case), the small claims court is a 'no costs jurisdiction' which means that Shimano have to pay their lawyers around $1000 simply to draft the paperwork and appear. Once you get the judgement, you also have the satisfaction of knowing that the Sherrifs will go and seize company property if they don't pay you. By suing them, you can win some cash to buy a new rod and stick it up Shimano at the same time - what more can you ask for?

If you want more info, give your local court registry (civil claims division) a call - they are typically very friendly and will even draft up the forms for you if you are nice to them.


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## landyman (Oct 17, 2007)

deano said:


> If you feel strongly enough about it you can take it to small claims court (kind of like the Oz version of Judge Judy). Typically companies such as Shimano will not bother defending the matter because it is cheaper simply to pay out the claim. You will get what is known as a 'default judgment' which simply means you win your entire claim because the opposition couldn't be bothered showing up. Even if you were to lose (which appears impossible in your case), the small claims court is a 'no costs jurisdiction' which means that Shimano have to pay their lawyers around $1000 simply to draft the paperwork and appear. Once you get the judgement, you also have the satisfaction of knowing that the Sherrifs will go and seize company property if they don't pay you. By suing them, you can win some cash to buy a new rod and stick it up Shimano at the same time - what more can you ask for?
> 
> If you want more info, give your local court registry (civil claims division) a call - they are typically very friendly and will even draft up the forms for you if you are nice to them.


If you get no love from the place you bought it from - do exactly what Deano said.. stuff 'em.. from what you ahve said, it seemed like the guy at Shimano had quite the attitude.. but I suppose you could always just ask to speak to the next person "above" him etc.. you'll get some joy somewhere.. don't forget to drop names like fishnet.com, ausfish.com, akff.net etc.. always seems to "sway" their judgement :shock:


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## landyman (Oct 17, 2007)

Fishing Man said:


> i rang the guys at shimano today and wasnt happy to say the least,
> they told me to glue it back together and not to worry about warranty.
> 
> I explained that i payed for the quality product and thats what i expected,
> ...


BTW - I cant remember which RR you have.. but if it was a bream rod.. I have just seen on breammaster that Black Diamond have a few rods on sale for like $100 off.. bargain mate if you after a 1-3kg rod 8)


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## Ferret (Oct 31, 2006)

Hi Fishing Man

I haven't got a solution to your problem but it just goes to show that an expensive or a well known brand rod isn't always a good rod.

Being a pensioner, and therefore a 'tight arse' with money, I don't generally don't buy expensive gear. In fact, presently, all of my rods where bought in a second hand shop. The way I see it is, you can buy something like a Shimano Technium at a SH shop for around $20 and you know its been well 'tested' and if it was going to fail it would have done so before now 

I have 6 rods and a couple of them are brands I've never heard of and I can't pick the difference between them and other more 'expensive' brands (for the uses I put them to).

Buying a 'name' doesn't necessarily mean you're buying quality.

Cheers
John


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## Dodge (Oct 12, 2005)

Fishing Man said:


> Heath, i dont think shimano own loomis mate....


Ben I think I read one time Loomis had sold out, even before Shimano took them into the fold, its the corporate octopus at work probably very few companies at all if you got to the bottom of the pile


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## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

well ownership asides, 
the difference between loomis and Shimano is that loomis make great rods and shimano make shit thats trying to copy the likes of loomis.
Not only do loomis make some of the best rods in the world but they stand by them with an unconditional no questions asked warranty. 
basically you take the rod back to any loomis retailer and pay the expodite fee and a whole new rod comes in a few days later for you to pickup.

I can guarantee that i will never buy shimano again, i always knew the reels were absolute crap, well especially the ones here in Aus and when compared to the likes of Daiwa. But the rods i gave a fair chance as Ian Miller had something to do with the design, i guess it wouldnt be s bad if they honored the warranty.

Im not putting up with this crap, if he tells me to glue it today at the retail outlet im snapping it.


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## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

Ferret said:


> The way I see it is, you can buy something like a Shimano Technium at a SH shop for around $20 and you know its been well 'tested' and if it was going to fail it would have done so before now
> 
> Buying a 'name' doesn't necessarily mean you're buying quality.


Hey John thanks for the tips but the problem is that all my fishing is done with lures/soft plastics. 
There is no way that a shimano technium will catch fish on plastics like a high modulus graphite rod. The action is completely different, 
I never used to catch fish on plastics (using shitty rods) but now its 95% of my fishing, I love it, I dont think il ever use bait again.
Its probably comparable to fly fishing in that the rod is the important bit, the reel well it can be anything as long as it can handle the fish u target,

but shimano is no longer regarded as a brand name by me,


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## landyman (Oct 17, 2007)

Fishing Man said:


> if he tells me to glue it today at the retail outlet im snapping it.


DO IT MATE- RIGHT I FRONT OF HIM :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

What a classic - i'd love to be there to see it.. and kick up a fuss so the other customers hear it too :lol:


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Mate just call up Shimano and tell them your story and that your local guy has not been too helpfull - that you cant wait 6 weeks for a rep to visit and that your not being unreasonable and that through other contacts of yours you have heard its a common fault.

Yes the Loomis expeditor warranty is cool but its still $150 bucks everytime it gets damaged. Go the Nitro - 60 bucks replacement (2 piece rods).

I love my Nitro and Loomis :lol: :lol:


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## Redfish (Apr 25, 2007)

Good luck with getting a satifactory resolution with the rod. It's surprising that shimano would not take this more seriously, but looks to be a decision that is going to cost them in the long run.


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

If this is still ongoing and your not getting anywhere - write to them and tell them exactly what you've told us and the guy at the shop - if they do not reply - then email them at customer service and then add a link to this page - I'm sure they will pull theyre finger out then once they realise how many people have an interest in their / your after service!!!!!

POWER TO THE FORUM


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## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

I took it back yesterday and the guy was really good, 
i didnt even have to explain, he took one look and said yeah that is covered and they would most likely send a replacement. If I have some luck and they do that, il be asking if i can have credit when the replacement comes - Il then buy a decent rod, My days with shimano are well and truly over.

Il update this when i hear some more, 
for all those who backed me thanks


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## landyman (Oct 17, 2007)

good outcome.. but I wanted to hear about you smashing it..


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Well done Fishingman - I knew you'd get there in the end - just be carefull when you ask for a credit though as he might decide to whack yoo over the head with the rod


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## DrJed (Sep 13, 2007)

Hey bud - nice to hear you got an ok outcome in the end.

In my experience with big corporations - squeaky wheels get the oil every time. It's less painful for them to give you what you want so you'll go away than to keep hearing from you. If you keep at them (you shouldnt have to but...) they get annoyed at hearing from you, as well as having to pay staff to respond to you all the time.

Steve


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## landyman (Oct 17, 2007)

noticed the cork top on my RR is also coming apart.. oh well.. it's long out of warranty and will go on ebay soon anyway...

will replace with nice Black Diamond 8)


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## fishnfreak (Jun 22, 2007)

did you find that it was when you went through the tackle shop that you got an easy replacement? Can i ask why you didnt go straight to them, and let them fight for your warranty, sounds like it may have saved you some stress, mate 

also the price of a raider is not comparable to loomis or nitro and to say that shimano make "shit thats trying to copy the likes of loomis" is just outwardly bad-mouthing a good company. I understand some people will have bad experiences with products and company service and its good that you bring that up as it helps us when it comes to deciding where our hard earned money is going to come from. I have used shimano gear all my life and i have to say that it is quality gear.
After all you get what you pay for, if you were using something comparable such as the tcurve flight series or such then i would totally agree(if it was not a singular fault).

i hope the bad experience you had with the service doesnt stop you from using any quality future gear that they copy from someone else :lol:


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## landyman (Oct 17, 2007)

fishnfreak said:


> did you find that it was when you went through the tackle shop that you got an easy replacement? Can i ask why you didnt go straight to them, and let them fight for your warranty, sounds like it may have saved you some stress, mate
> 
> also the price of a raider is not comparable to loomis or nitro and to say that shimano make "shit thats trying to copy the likes of loomis" is just outwardly bad-mouthing a good company. I understand some people will have bad experiences with products and company service and its good that you bring that up as it helps us when it comes to deciding where our hard earned money is going to come from. I have used shimano gear all my life and i have to say that it is quality gear.
> After all you get what you pay for, if you were using something comparable such as the tcurve flight series or such then i would totally agree(if it was not a singular fault).
> ...


yes but a $130+ rod should not warp like that nor should the cork come off due to cheap quality glue or lack of enough glue..

I am now of the thinking that I save my $$ and buy a much better quality Aussie made rod that will last longer than me with a lifetime warranty


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## fishnfreak (Jun 22, 2007)

hey go for it, buy a more expensive rod, but for that price(they're only a mid range rod) the raiders are a top notch rod. Keep in mind that not all of them bugger up(knowing my luck now that i have defended them, mine will bugger up next :lol: )


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## landyman (Oct 17, 2007)

fishnfreak said:


> hey go for it, buy a more expensive rod, but for that price(they're only a mid range rod) the raiders are a top notch rod. Keep in mind that not all of them bugger up(knowing my luck now that i have defended them, mine will bugger up next :lol: )


we'll agree to disagree then.. for the money I think are much better rods out there.. the Berkley Dropshot is the first that comes to mind..


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## fishnfreak (Jun 22, 2007)

actually, i am keen on trying them, that or the pro-tactic, but i dont know the price of them


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Generally Ive never had a rod screw up on me - they are general all pretty good - Ive had cheap and expensive. A good rod generally is one thats suited to its purpose and the more specific the purpose the more the rod has to deliver its respected qualities required for the task. Where this is going then is I'm not always sure if money always equates to what a good rod or a bad one should be - although anything that comes apart regardless of price is a malfunctioning product that needs to be sent back to be looked at.

Just some thoughts and a perspective on the matter.


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Berkely Drop shots are good and the fittings are quality and the action for finesse work is up to the task - the price is very reasonable.


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## landyman (Oct 17, 2007)

wopfish said:


> Generally Ive never had a rod screw up on me - they are general all pretty good - Ive had cheap and expensive. A good rod generally is one thats suited to its purpose and the more specific the purpose the more the rod has to deliver its respected qualities required for the task. Where this is going then is I'm not always sure if money always equates to what a good rod or a bad one should be - although anything that comes apart regardless of price is a malfunctioning product that needs to be sent back to be looked at.
> 
> Just some thoughts and a perspective on the matter.


agreed.. although most of the time more $$ equals better quality.. but that is a "most" ...

if a company has a lifetime warranty on the rod.. that to me equals quality and a company proud of their product..

fishinfreak - you will love the dropshots.. great blanks and good components.. for the $$ they are excellent value depending on the rod you are after..


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Landy when you say better quality - are you talking about fittings and blanks. I would say that most gear now has fuji fittings - even the cheaper stuff - and the blank / action of the rod I think comes down to specifics of the intentions of use.

I think the more specific the rod gets the more pricier it becomes (in general).

I agree with the warranty - its hard to go past Loomis and Nitro ( I know I have both ).

I have several Wilson glass rods and they are very good value and great rods too . Just not not carbon / graphite .

So out of all of this - if I can use wine as an analogy - fishing rods are like white wine - you can get some really good expensive ones and some really good cheap ones and sometimes its hard to tell them apart.

With a red - i can always tell a good one (mostly they are the expensive ones) - nearly all cheap reds taste cheap.

I hope I'm not going off on too much of a tangent here 8) 8) 8)


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## landyman (Oct 17, 2007)

wopfish said:


> Landy when you say better quality - are you talking about fittings and blanks. I would say that most gear now has fuji fittings - even the cheaper stuff - and the blank / action of the rod I think comes down to specifics of the intentions of use.
> 
> I think the more specific the rod gets the more pricier it becomes (in general).
> 
> ...


by better quality I mean the fit and finish.. Fuji IMO is only good when we talk their top range stuff.. the lower grade gear is very average IMO.. the blanks I find on the Dropshots to have a nicer feel and more "power" than the equivalent Raider.. like the bream finesse etc..

As for warranty - I'm not sure what the warranty is on the Loomis/Nitro gear regarding manufacturing faults like loose cork etc.. only their breakage warranty.. which is great


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