# Hobie Fishing Forum



## Profishional (Apr 23, 2008)

Any other Hobie owners had trouble joining the Hobie fishing forum, I have tried to register half a dozen times over the last twelve months and still cant gt registered. Finally got an email today asking what Hobie I own and were I bought it.
Read throught he sight policies and can't help feel the Hobie company is a bit up itself, if you don't have a hobie you can't join the forum.
What would they think if hobie owners were banned from other forums were paddle kayaks hold larger numbers.
To me it just seems wrong. My wife owns a Wilderness Sytem tarpon but also uses my hobie at times I wonder can she join the hobie forum!
I've come to the conclusion maybe I don't want to join this forum now, I'm a memeber of several kayak forums who discriminate against no kayaks, but it feels that's what hobie is doing with their forum, if you dont own a hobie your not good enough.
Their dealers and reps have made good use of this and other sites to promote their products and comps etc and research whatever info etc they like.
I love my outfitter, just think hobie fishing is getting a bit big for it's boots!!!
Catch Ya's on a Plastic!!!

Profishional.


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## koich (Jul 25, 2007)

Do you get 2 logins if you own an Outfitter?


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

So if I'm a potential buyer and I want to FIND OUT all about the Hobie range, and want to GET INFORMATION from other Hobie owners then I can't actually do that until AFTER I've bought a Hobie?

No wonder AKFF is so popular....


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## mcbigg (Jul 14, 2007)

I had a little problem registering. It would let me register, saying that when an admin approved it I would be allowed access. I never received approval. I tried twice in 6 months and after the second time i shot them an email.

To their credit they responded right away saying that they get a lot of spam membership applications so they tend to not approve ones where the username is just a jumble of letters like 'mcbigg' and also if the applicant hasn't filled in any of their profile info such as location details.

The guy I dealt with immediately activated both accounts for me, saying I could chose which one to use.


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## dunebuggy (Dec 21, 2008)

Just a side note here guys, are you aware that you have to use your real name (or part of it at least) to register?
You can't register your nick name like in other forums. Yes......it's annoying, I have been using the Dunebuggy nick since I first joined the internet community but, I am sure they had their reasons for this. 
As for problems registering, well, they were pretty busy with the comp when I registered but I got registered eventually. It's also a very new forum too so I expect that they will have various teething problems.
Just my 2 cents.


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## mcbigg (Jul 14, 2007)

dunebuggy said:


> Just a side note here guys, are you aware that you have to use your real name (or part of it at least) to register?
> You can't register your nick name like in other forums.


Not sure that this is true. They've got guys their called 'roadrunner', 'psychoclown', ' mountainmeterman' and 'DieselYak'.


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## blahger (Feb 6, 2009)

Maybe it will only accept your registration if you type it with your feet........


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## dunebuggy (Dec 21, 2008)

mcbigg said:


> dunebuggy said:
> 
> 
> > Just a side note here guys, are you aware that you have to use your real name (or part of it at least) to register?
> ...


Mcbigg, if that is the case then I am obviously wrong on that point but it wouldn't approve my dunebuggy nick so, that's where I got the idea you had to use your name.


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## SteveFields (Mar 21, 2006)

Hi guys, a few things.

1/ Hobie Fishing Web - This site is dedicated to Hobie Fishing customers and Hobie kayak owners. This site has a forum that is not a public forum. It is a private forum. The same if you were a Qantas Club member or similar. Nothing more, nothing less.

2/ As far has finding out about details on Hobie product (the range), this information can be found on the company site or via dealers direct. This way you get correct info, on water demos when possible.

3/ We support various public forums such as this one and KFDU forum.

4/ We support kayaks and kayak fishing (E.G. FFC and the ABT events) We put our money on the table. Others manufacture do not.

5/ We are not up ourselves, just offering those Hobie customers a dedicated site vs. an open public forum.

6/ As for registration, spam is a real problem. Please if you are having trouble, then email [email protected] and I will speak to the admin team.

7/ Yes, real user name are required in our private forum. The same as other clubs and other forums have. I'm a member of several public forums and they require real user names. I do not have a problem with calling me Steve.

Davey G, we both know that most customers get info from the company site, via a Hobie dealer, at a trade show or boat show. Only the fishingcomau sites forum is private, not the site itself.

The AKFF and KFDU forums are great and offer info of the various kayaks and we take the good with the bad (public forums).

Our site (forum) is just looking after "Hobie" customers. That's all. 
No one is forcing Hobie owners to join or not to join. It's just a small little Hobie forum with around 100 members that share a few things&#8230;&#8230;.no big deal&#8230;&#8230;


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## dunebuggy (Dec 21, 2008)

Hey Steve, thanks for clearing that up.
We should all be out fishing now....instead of sitting in front of our computers. lol. Way too much fresh here at present.
Thanks again Steve.


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## mcbigg (Jul 14, 2007)

dunebuggy said:


> mcbigg said:
> 
> 
> > dunebuggy said:
> ...


Sorry Dunebuggy, it appears I was getting confused with the Hobiecat forums, which is what I _thought_ the OP was asking about. I should have just left it to the experts (thanks Steve!) to answer.

[skulks off back to box]


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## SteveFields (Mar 21, 2006)

the hobiefishingcomau forum, (not part of Hobie Cat USA community forum) is for Hobie owners and is private. It also requires real user names.
Hope this clears it up


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## ScottLovig (Aug 7, 2006)

Davey G said:


> So if I'm a potential buyer and I want to FIND OUT all about the Hobie range, and want to GET INFORMATION from other Hobie owners then I can't actually do that until AFTER I've bought a Hobie?
> 
> No wonder AKFF is so popular....


Dont worry Davey, just ring me man. My info and yak Kungfu is much better than reading loose forum opinions. :lol: I'll make sure we choose the best Hobie for you. :lol:

Cheers

Scott


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## Sunhobie (Jun 22, 2006)

Davey G said:


> So if I'm a potential buyer and I want to FIND OUT all about the Hobie range, and want to GET INFORMATION from other Hobie owners then I can't actually do that until AFTER I've bought a Hobie?
> 
> No wonder AKFF is so popular....


AKFF IS very popular. AKFF is doing a great job as an impartial chatboard for kayak fishermen (and women).
The Hobiefishing forum is not competing with AKFF.
A potential buyer for any kayak has many options when wanting to find information. Sometimes people do their initial research via forums such as AKFF. They usually follow up with a websurf on official product websites. If they are still interested, they make direct contact with a retailer.
The Hobiefishing website is for those people who own a Hobie. It is a place to visit when you want to ask a question specifically about your Hobie if you can't be bothered with snyde comments made by people who hide behind behind an anonymous nickname.
There was talk some time ago about a separate area for Hobies. I guess Hobiefishing is it.


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

Hobie Vic said:


> Dont worry Davey, just ring me man. My info and yak Kungfu is much better than reading loose forum opinions. :lol: I'll make sure we choose the best Hobie for you. :lol:
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Scott


Thanks but I'd rather support my local man Pauly...... or maybe Mal on the Sunshine Coast by the end of the year.. 8) 8)

BTW - I don't particularly care either way and I have no intention of joining the Hobie forum at the moment, but my comments were based on a 'potential customers' point of view. From the outside it does seem that by denying non-kayak owners the opportunity to join your forum and ask questions/find out all about your products first hand from happy owners that you're maybe turning business away. Yes it would be nice to think that 100% of sales prospects walk in the door or ring your dealers up, but in todays computer literate society forums are a way of getting that info easily and quickly, and many purchase decisions are actually made BEFORE the customer visits or calls a dealer (whether you like it or not).

I can totally understand that you want to give Hobie owners 'extra value' or whatever by offering them a private forum and that's fine, so if its a "Hobie Club" vibe you're going for then it looks like you have it all sorted out. However if you want to use the forum to attract new business and generate sales then it doesn't seem like a particularly effective tool.

I'm also aware that the various manufacturers forums are not 'competing' as such with AKFF (AKFF is a free non commercial forum so doesnt actually compete with anyone, but we do try to make the forum a 'better experience' than others). I am also aware that forums such as AKFF will have the occasional negative comment on any product, and I'm aware that the manufacturers hate not having control over these comments (be they true or false). I am still of the opinion that the VAST majority of information posted on free forums such as AKFF regarding Hobie kayaks is extremely positive and despite the occasional negative comment / snipe the company and the products are predominantly shown in a positive way (especially in the last 12-18 months, and especially since we allowed/welcomed commercial members onboard).

Therefore, I'd suggest that despite some manufacturers disliking public forums such as AKFF, these type of discussion arenas have had a huge (positive) impact on the sales that Hobie has achieved over the last 3-4 years, especially in the Australian market where we are still in a heavy growth phase of the sport. In fact I'd be pretty confident to say that without AKFF, Hobie fishing kayaks would be nowhere near as popular as they are today. Again, that's a fact whether you like it or not.

Anyway,, that's just my opinion, and it's no drama to me either way. At least its not a drama until I get my ' 2010 Turbo Kungfu Mexican' model Hobie with automatic bream detecting radar and want to lay down a challenge to other Hobie Kungfu paddlers to a full contact black belt bream fishing competition via the Hobie Forum..... :twisted: :twisted: Bring it on!!!


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## Barrabundy (Sep 29, 2008)

I've had two attempts which weren't successfull. I could/should have chased it up but it obviously wasn't high enough on my priority list to actually do it. I figured it would be be one more reason to be in front of my pc and I spend enought time in front of it as it is.


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## shappy (May 29, 2008)

this type of marketing is used in many areas. i work for a european brand of trucks and customers how own our vehicles are given customer nights were dinner and drinks are put on big time for them, its not directed at new sales to bring in new buyers, there is different marketing for that. 
hobie fishing is no different to many other companies out there trying to capture repeat buisness

just my thoughts. cheers, shappy


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2009)

> However if you want to use the forum to attract new business and generate sales then it doesn't seem like a particularly effective tool.


I think that's what the Hobie company/product websites are for Davey, not to mention dealer sites. There are a plethora of good kayak fishing sites and forums around that offer more than enough 3rd-party info and anything you read can be cross checked and referenced with multiple sources. Hobie doesn't need another website floating around pimping their kayaks, under their own umbrella or otherwise. Hobie doesn't need any more grass roots advertising, nor do they need any astro-turf advertising (beyond what the company is already doing). Given the membership kayak brand ownership % of these forums (and others like it), well, you probably already knew that.

If anything, hobiefishing.com.au (as opposed to hobie.com.au, or hobie.com) forums are more of a value-add for existing customers. You can't hold that against them, surely. As Mal said, some time ago there was discussion about a Hobie-only section here (which I considered to be a good idea at the time - but chose to stay out of the discussion). But a Hobie-only forum that only Hobie members can access does make a lot of sense and I don't need to tell you why (but I will). Because although it's died off somewhat now, for a while there it was impossible to mention the word 'Hobie' around here without having your thread hijacked and eventually scuppered. I guess it just makes sense to get advice about Hobie kayaks from people who use them, not from a gargantuan collective of individual opinions, given that many of those opinions will be formed with a complete lack of understanding or experience. No different than buying a car really. If you were thinking about buying a particular Ford, would you seek advice from the guy who owns the Ford, or would you turn to the guy shouting advice from within his Holden?


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## Barrabundy (Sep 29, 2008)

Ok, now I'm feeling left out, I think I'll chase up my membership and see what it's all about.


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## cruiser (Dec 19, 2007)

Sunhobie said:


> Therefore, I'd suggest that despite some manufacturers disliking public forums such as AKFF, these type of discussion arenas have had a huge (positive) impact on the sales that Hobie has achieved over the last 3-4 years, especially in the Australian market where we are still in a heavy growth phase of the sport. In fact I'd be pretty confident to say that without AKFF, Hobie fishing kayaks would be nowhere near as popular as they are today. Again, that's a fact whether you like it or not.


 i agree with you daveyg this forum would have a huge impact on kayak sales in australia ,its where i gathered my info to purchase my first yak and totally gratefull , that i could do this without any pressure from any sales person makes life a wee bit easier.haveing said that im seriously in the throws of going to the dark side and was unaware of a hobie forum until today ,its the perfect platform to talk to other hobie owners about their yaks and gain some usefull info ,it doesnt make sence to me to have to own a hobie to join this hobie forum because it smells a little bit of snobbery to me ,anyway thats my view cheers cruiser


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## ScottLovig (Aug 7, 2006)

Davey G said:


> Hobie Vic said:
> 
> 
> > Dont worry Davey, just ring me man. My info and yak Kungfu is much better than reading loose forum opinions. :lol: I'll make sure we choose the best Hobie for you. :lol:
> ...


Yeahhhhh thats the spirit. My kungfu is strong and you will be defeated, na na na na. :lol: :twisted:

PS. Carefull claiming credit for sales success. Look what happend to Malibu :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :lol:

Cheers

Scott


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## Barrabundy (Sep 29, 2008)

All valid points here and I'll admit my thoughts have swayed from "elitist" to "I want to feel the love".

At the end of the day I think people will just vote with their fingers. I'm keen to sign up out of curiousity, as I'm sure others will. If people find value in it, it will take off, if they don't it will fade away.

I say try it if you're that way inclined, don't if you're not....and feel free to change your mind either way.

_A wise man changes his mind, a fool never does_


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## paffoh (Aug 24, 2006)

[Mod hat off - Member cap on]



Lazybugger said:


> I think Scott, who approves the memberships for AKFF, can confirm that SPAM memberberships are a major problem and regrettably even we have denied memberships in error or left people hanging longer than we want due to the shear volume of rubbish applicaitons rec'd. If you don't fill in too many details and use a username that looks like something pulled out of a random generator then you will run into problems.


Very good point, worth following up and notice thread starter is now a member of said forum. Always worth trying to cut to the chase if membership is delayed for any reason unknown on any forum you wish to participate in, many times I have had to chase memberships via email on many forums due to name registrations and the like (Dont envy this job). Dustin is right to feel a little perplexed but also not wrong to question motives (Unfortunately, research self blindsided).

This a good avenue to get in touch with members who own their product and want additional support initatives, being able to supply serial numbers direct to the source when registering (Even if you havent been prompted) gives your purchase a better stance from a pocket perspective. I think if other brands offered such a service customers who purchase their merchandise instead would register, after all who doesnt crave some customer based, technical support?

Its a niche forum sure, but one that does have a market share and a relevance in todays Kayak Fishing Community. I think you will find some of the information shared is cross platform but nothing is set to promote snobbery apart from offering product users the chance to communicate with others who have taken the leap and are looking to further their experience. I wish Scanpan or Circulon had some sort of forum, I can tell you Claire wants to share tips / etc.

Just my 2 cents, definately worth joining.


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## cruiser (Dec 19, 2007)

Barrabundy said:


> Its a niche forum sure, but one that does have a market share and a relevance in todays Kayak Fishing Community. I think you will find some of the information shared is cross platform but nothing is set to promote snobbery apart from offering product users the chance to communicate with others who have taken the leap and are looking to further their experience. I wish Scanpan or Circulon had some sort of forum, I can tell you Claire wants to share tips / etc.
> 
> Just my 2 cents, definately worth joining.


 true true , but please dont get me wrong ,hobie are a great yak theres no disputing that ,i just thought this was another avenue to pursue some more info about hobies,nothing more nothing less cheers cruiser


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## shayned (Jul 12, 2006)

Oh my, please just stop it. We risk turning hobies into the Apple computer of the kayak world. :twisted:


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## koich (Jul 25, 2007)

We can't have that, they are already the recumbant cycle of the kayak world.


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## Sunhobie (Jun 22, 2006)

Beat me to it Koich!
I was thinking more along the lines of a different operation system (boom tich!)


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## GregL (Jul 27, 2008)

Dudes, I wouldn't give a rats if there was a Moken owners forum, OK owners forum, Stealth owners forum or any other "Brand" owners forum.
I honestly fail to see the problem :?
Business is business, and if any manufacturer wants to provide a little bit extra for its customers then so be it. Its not like its the first time an 'Owners Club" has been set up.

As long as AKFF remains impartial (which it will), and everyone continues to see this Forum as one where all are welcome and we can all help, congratulate, brag and of course pay out on eachother in the spirit of fishing, then we should all be glad to be a part of it and not worry what is going on somewhere else in the Internet.
Chill out. Its no biggy.
Smeg eace:


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## blaggon (Jan 14, 2008)

SteveFields said:


> Hi guys, a few things.
> 
> 1
> 4/ We support kayaks and kayak fishing (E.G. FFC and the ABT events) We put our money on the table. Others manufacture do not.
> ...


 your not the only manufacturer to do so... viking just for one example have shown great support for AKFF and kayak fishing in general by "putting their money on the table "


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

blaggon said:


> your not the only manufacturer to do so... viking just for one example have shown great support for AKFF and kayak fishing in general by "putting their money on the table "


I understand that you're just adding your 2 cents on Steves earlier comment but this thread is not going to go in that direction (off topic). This thread is about a Hobie forum and the Hobie crew have explained the reasons and setup of their forum quite adequately, and have added their tech support details so that anyone wishing to join up can do so. If you want to have a seperate discussion about something else then please do it elsewhere.



gregl said:


> Chill out. Its no biggy.


I'm frosty. 8)


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## Shorty (May 11, 2008)

I wanted to be a member of the Harleys owners club, but they would not accept me or my honda 110 posties bike,,its an outrage,,bloody elitist snobs. 8)


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## dunebuggy (Dec 21, 2008)

Davey G said:


> I understand that you're just adding your 2 cents on Steves earlier comment but this thread is not going to go in that direction (off topic). This thread is about a Hobie forum and the Hobie crew have explained the reasons and setup of their forum quite adequately, and have added their tech support details so that anyone wishing to join up can do so. If you want to have a seperate discussion about something else then please do it elsewhere.
> 
> I'm frosty. 8)


Well said Davey G.

And Greg L ......... smeggin' 'eck, when do we ever put sh*t on each other you pommie git. lol. (he says with tongue in cheek)


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## Barrabundy (Sep 29, 2008)

cruiser said:


> Barrabundy said:
> 
> 
> > Its a niche forum sure, but one that does have a market share and a relevance in todays Kayak Fishing Community. I think you will find some of the information shared is cross platform but nothing is set to promote snobbery apart from offering product users the chance to communicate with others who have taken the leap and are looking to further their experience. I wish Scanpan or Circulon had some sort of forum, I can tell you Claire wants to share tips / etc.
> ...


Did I write that???


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## blaggon (Jan 14, 2008)

Davey G said:


> I understand that you're just adding your 2 cents on Steves earlier comment but this thread is not going to go in that direction (off topic). This thread is about a Hobie forum and the Hobie crew have explained the reasons and setup of their forum quite adequately, and have added their tech support details so that anyone wishing to join up can do so. If you want to have a seperate discussion about something else then please do it elsewhere.
> 
> I'm frosty. 8)


i get annoyed by elitist attitudes  
but fair enough sorry to take it off topic.. i will withdraw my 2c and spend it elsewhere :lol: 
cheers.


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## Shufoy (May 28, 2008)

Profishional said:


> Any other Hobie owners had trouble joining the Hobie fishing forum, I have tried to register half a dozen times over the last twelve months and still cant gt registered. Finally got an email today asking what Hobie I own and were I bought it.
> Read throught he sight policies and can't help feel the Hobie company is a bit up itself, if you don't have a hobie you can't join the forum.
> What would they think if hobie owners were banned from other forums were paddle kayaks hold larger numbers.
> To me it just seems wrong. My wife owns a Wilderness Sytem tarpon but also uses my hobie at times I wonder can she join the hobie forum!
> ...


I think it's strange this thread even came into existence, but i guess the debate may as well be had now, before the Malibu Owners Forum, or the OK Owners Forum starts up..
It's strange that you would get upset that a forum called "Hobie Fishing Forum" would be for Hobie owners only? The intro to the forums says clearly _"This site is dedicated to Hobie Fishing customers and Hobie kayak owners. We are happy to provide information to help improve your Hobie Kayak Fishing experience."_
I understand if you are having difficulty signing up it would be frustrating, but still. It's like going to a nudist camp, and saying this is elitist, why can't i wear clothes..

It's a site for Hobie Owners to share thoughts, techniques etc, that is all. It's not a conspiracy, or a meeting place for Hobie Owners to discuss global domination techniques. Don't really understand why it's an issue for some people.

I like the way Hobie lead from the front. But history says, those who strive to be different, and break new ground are always persecuted.

Keep up the good work Hobie.


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## dunebuggy (Dec 21, 2008)

Shufoy said:


> It's not a conspiracy, or a meeting place for Hobie Owners to discuss global domination techniques.


It's not? oooooooooh bugger. Guess I will have to hatch my evil plans elswhere. lol.


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## skitterrye (Dec 2, 2008)

SteveFields said:


> the hobiefishingcomau forum, (not part of Hobie Cat USA community forum) is for Hobie owners and is private. It also requires real user names.
> Hope this clears it up


Steve, Thanks for all the info on this post and previous one. I own two Hobie's, and as yet have been successful in logging into the forum (using the same nickname as here and the new one of johng). I will give it another go ..........


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## Profishional (Apr 23, 2008)

Yes Paff have finaly been granted registration, had a sqiz through the site, there was a live well modification that looked good for those with a "hobie" live well. And your write up on Capital adventures was exemplery. The site obviuosly still in its infancy lacks the info other yak fishing forums have, but guess this will come with age and member growth. It's Hobies perogative to have the site for hobie owners only, just feel it goes against the Hobie fishing moto of sharing information so we can all be winners (if you own a hobie). And being asked to dob someone in useing the site if I know they don't own a hobie doesn't sit well with me. I love my hobie love fishing in my hobie, use the missus tarpon when i want to paddle cause the outfitters a pig to paddle.
I didn't meen to start a shit fight just seemed a bit strange to me others can't use the site, and had no intention of upsetting hobie dealers etc.
Only joined the twentieth century a bit over twelve months ago by getting a computer and was shocked to find anything about kayak fishing on the net, how niave of me, but what I found AKFF and KFDU blew me away the friendliness and ease of welcome and access to anything kayak fishing was astonashing, top marks to these two entities. I think it's already been stated somewhere in this mess I made that wouldn't it be smart for hobie to let others read there members raving about their product.
I still think it's a bit snobbish, but will still occasionaly visit the site I own a Hobie.
Sorry if i upset anyone, but right now there's fish in them there waters!!!
Catch Ya's on a Plastic
Profishional.


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## diabolical (Mar 30, 2008)

Profishional said:


> Yes Paff have finaly been granted registration.
> 
> Anyone else still having trouble joining the site?


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## funpaddle (Sep 17, 2007)

Yes, I have had similar hassles. Gave up as too hard but may try again sometime.


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## Kaymac (Apr 24, 2009)

What a load of crap! I just read this from start to finnish and thought some people have real issues....
Hobie.......yeh great and I've had an outback, revo, and 2 adventures.......and not one of them was right from the factory.
Just bought a Viking Tempo and am more than happy with it, I'm over the whole Hobie wank wank thing...... ;-) 
I'm not going back! and for them to create a brand speciffic forum stinks of the elite hibie wank wank better than the rest attitude & says a lot about why so many blues happen on the regular forums.
Something to think about?


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## koich (Jul 25, 2007)

Oh, this one is gunna be awesome.


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## Guest (Apr 30, 2009)

> I'm not going back! and for them to create a brand speciffic forum stinks of the elite hibie wank wank better than the rest attitude & says a lot about why so many blues happen on the regular forums.
> Something to think about?


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## Rhino (Dec 17, 2007)

More kayaks than posts. ;-)

..........and boy, can a lot can change in a week :lol:



Kaymac on 25/4/09 said:


> I might be interested in a Hobie Revo.......


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## Guest (Apr 30, 2009)

> ...and boy, can a lot can change in a week


Haha... yeah... that's funny (and say's a lot me thinx).


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## dunebuggy (Dec 21, 2008)

G R O A N..................

I'm with yakass on the flogging a dead horse thing!
Enough already.

Edit; and rhino..........pass the popcorn please.


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## Rhino (Dec 17, 2007)

dunebuggy said:


> and rhino..........pass the popcorn please.


Take your pick ;-)


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## Shorty (May 11, 2008)

I was very excited to join the Hobie forums a few months ago,,but then i found it was a bit low on numbers, it lacked a welcoming/good atomosphere it was like walking into a near empty room at a party and the same threads that i have already read on other forums were up.

My last thread and questions were ignored by the HobieTeam and i have not checked in for a couple of months, things may have changed since then.

Its a good concept though,,hopefully some more members may help.


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## blaggon (Jan 14, 2008)

rhino171 said:


> Take your pick ;-)


ok i pick ummmm.....i pick those 2  :twisted: :twisted:


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## bazzoo (Oct 17, 2006)

AAhhhhrrrgghhhhh that bloody Lisa from the nubies pool will get her face into anything thats promotional and now its popcorn, i have told her if she keeps eating that stuff she wont be able to see the keyboard , aahhrrgghhh kids of today , ya cant tell em :? :? ;-) ;-)


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