# how many pool nodles to keep afloat?



## wigg (Jan 6, 2007)

How many pool noodles would it take to keep a prowler elite afloat?
Just curious.

Cheers

Wigg


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

First off I dont think you could manage to get all the air out of a kayak to make it sink completely in the first place. If you stuffed the hull completely with non water absorbing foam like pool noodles, it should be positively buoyant.

I used to have a leak in the swing, and man it was a dog to paddle even with only 30 or so litres of water in the hull. So depending on the type of yak I would think there would be a point where it would be still floating but impossible to go anywhere. :?

Why do you want to know?....sharks can chew through pool noodles to. :lol:


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## wigg (Jan 6, 2007)

Just wondering if I do roll and take on water, how much do I need to take on before it sinks?
I just started to think about these sorts of things when Matty and I were over 5kms from the beach yesterday.
Will pool noodles help at all if I take on water?

Cheers

Wigg


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## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

Wigg instead of pool noodles i use a closed cell bouancy foam from Thermotec at somersby on the central coast. a sheet 2.4 x 1.2 x 0.1 m will float 288kg. I have 1/2 a sheet in the outback mostly under the rear well and then up the sides so i can still get a rod down the middle.

The prolwer i filled with expanding GP2 bouancy foam, however had a good pair of elbow length gloves ready should the foam expand to quickly :roll: :wink: :twisted:   and this would float the prolwer complete full of water and still paddleable










Haven't pool tested the outback yet.

Cheers Dave


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

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QlpoOTFBWSZTWYuU4L0AABlfgAAQUCeACgAgUAo/7/+gIACEGoJ6FNo1NNjVGnqZlMA1TwkZAGgAAaIXKDYiuu69/0xj0REoB1qUSZK8OM76teOH0MjmNju+MChILpUEbBblEGIzT0YkI2cyeWowgnyHoEXr4xMU7xN4UAwhOQKJxQiOz7S+Uo4KDQn1I8KB4Rt+EEUKDDJPmKpj8XckU4UJCLlOC9A=


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## ManjiMike (Jan 24, 2007)

Red, I think your getting confused with the other thread -"My yak stinks" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## wigg (Jan 6, 2007)

Hi Dave

Where do you get the bouancy foam from?

Cheers

Wigg


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## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

The GP2 expanding foam can be bought from FMS (fibreglass materials supplies) I belIeve theres one next to brooky TAFE.

Check out thermotec for the closed dell type, i would reccomend this one the GP2 gets messy

http://www.thermotec.com.au/cms/index.p ... alty-foams












> Someone call Greenpeace cause i know where the Japanese whalers are headed


What about this one Gatesy "AGHHH THERE SHE BLOWS, call captain Ahab to the bridge, weve found Moby Dick" :lol: :lol: :lol:

Cheers Dave


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

wigg said:


> Just wondering if I do roll and take on water, how much do I need to take on before it sinks?
> I just started to think about these sorts of things when Matty and I were over 5kms from the beach yesterday.
> Will pool noodles help at all if I take on water?
> 
> ...


I still think, even with the foam, while it wont sink, it would be too hard to paddle back from 5 kms off shore. At best it would be somewhere to hang onto until you get rescued.

Have you got a water proof VHF radio?......I think it would be way more important to have a two way if you got into trouble that far out.

And Red......go get stuffed.....I'll pee where I like.


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## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

> I still think, even with the foam, while it wont sink, it would be too hard to paddle back from 5 kms off shore. At best it would be somewhere to hang onto until you get rescued


My idea was basically this AWTY, but what i have found is if the bouyance is enough to keep you above the waterline and you have some pool noodle and a bucket (manadatory in NSW) then you will be able to remount, plug any holes with noodle and bail the yak out to a paddleable state.

The radio is the best idea for that far offshore, for Wigg if your off longy the nearest rescue boats besides surf club inflatables have to come from Pittwater or Sydney harbour, at least 45min - 1hr away. Even a chopper there comes from Parramatta (careflight) and is 1/2 an hour away. So be prepared to save yourself.

Cheers Dave


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## AdrianK (May 30, 2006)

A good quality manual bilge pump, purpose built for kayaks will set you back about $20-$30. (I got one from BCF, but any chandlery will have them). Just a thought.


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## JT (May 25, 2006)

AdrianK said:


> A good quality manual bilge pump, purpose built for kayaks will set you back about $20-$30. (I got one from BCF, but any chandlery will have them). Just a thought.


You're on the money Adrian. Also the VHF is an essential piece of kit when you're in trouble I reckon. The in hull flotation is akin to an ashtray on a motorbike or an inflatable dartboard (or choose your own bad analogy) IMHO.

JT


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## kaiyak (Jul 7, 2007)

I got two 10L empty spring water bags after i'm done with the water, inflate them in the hatch. 20L of air displacement in sea water should give at least 20kg of floatation.


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## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

justcrusin32 said:


> > ........some pool noodle and a bucket (manadatory in NSW) then you will be able to remount, plug any holes with noodle and bail the yak out to a paddleable state.....


A bucket, mandatory in NSW ? First Ive heard of this.


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

i thought the bucket was so you didn't get vomit on the yak :?


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## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

I will have to find the link but those regs apply to boats, somewhere Im sure it says kayaks are exempt from all those regs and the only one was a PFD of any type(1,2,3) if your more than 400m offshore.


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## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

the bucket they refer to can be collaspable and you can get them from most chandlers, I think they class us like a small row boat and we need to apply to the same rules. The maritimes guys are mostly pretty friendly guys but there are a few around who have short mans sydrome so better not to take the chance.

Cheers Dave


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## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

From http://www.waterways.nsw.gov.au/safetyequipment.html last updated Nov 2007

Canoes/Kayaks

Occupants MUST wear a lifejacket type 1, 2 or 3 except when the craft is: (a) propelled by paddles or oars in enclosed waters during daylight and (b) not being used as a tender and (c) so constructed as to stay afloat if capsized and (d) not more than 400m from the nearest shore. Anchor not required.

Im just going off the above and not worrying about the table above. If they start to enforce boat rules on kayaks you may as well be in a boat, or fishing off a surfboard.(


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## DougOut (Dec 31, 2006)

:shock: me thinks this is "the Key" people  
except when the craft is: (c) so constructed as to stay afloat if capsized 
that sounds like my yak to me 8)


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## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

Now Im really confused, can someone put it all into simple words (im not too bright). Do we need a bucket or a pfd, in close, or far out eg more than 400m. :?


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

Breambo said:


> Now Im really confused, can someone put it all into simple words (im not too bright). Do we need a bucket or a pfd, in close, or far out eg more than 400m. :?


The four points are conjoined ("and") meaning all four must be true for you to avoid the requirement for a pfd. Being in open water means you are not in closed water so a pfd is mandatory.

Doug, my understanding is the QLD has no such rules - Anna doesn't care if you live or die! We southerners have nanny states to look after us


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

Peril said:


> Doug, my understanding is the QLD has no such rules - Anna doesn't care if you live or die! We southerners have nanny states to look after us


Hey Peril we have rules........2 to be precise  . You must carry a signaling device between sunset and sunrise and you must carry an epirb if your more than 2 nautical miles out from the coast in open waters......Hey it helps keep the population down. :? :lol:


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## BlueRoo (Dec 10, 2007)

Whats with the noodles. 
I have visions of kayakers with all these pool noodles stuffed down their shirts.
Qld have a good free "Guide to Recreational Boating and Fishing in Qld" booklet. A lot of boat dealerships etc have them on their counters or Qld transport Offices etc. Very handy for water road rules, safety requirements, fish size-take limits etc. I think NSW have a similar booklet. 
Cheers
Stue


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## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

inside the yak blue roo, you will find pool noodles are the yak fishos Macgyver tool, they work for everything. Pluging your scuppers, car roof racks, in hull floatation, pillow while camping, I even needed a float on my line while on the water one day pulled out a bit of noodle beaudiful , they can also be used for crab trap floats and i seem to remember someone a while ago making a bait tube with noodle floats (but i could be mistaken)

Just thought of this one, if you catch a marlin at SWR in feb and it spears your yak pool noodle can plug the leak :lol:

Cheers Dave


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## DougOut (Dec 31, 2006)

Peril said:


> Anna doesn't care if you live or die!


no surprise  
her great-great Uncle was a tyrant, regarding maters of The Sea :lol:

plus to make it "all" a little more ambiguous/confusing :? 
the definitions of "enclosed & open waters" can vary greatly along this vast Australian coast-line


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## BlueRoo (Dec 10, 2007)

Looks like a trip to the noodle shop. Thanks Dave.
Stue


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

BlueRoo said:


> Looks like a trip to the noodle shop. Thanks Dave.
> Stue


Big W is the cheapest i have found them, 3 for the price of one from clark rubber :shock:


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## bigjase (Jan 8, 2009)

Hi all, great site, glad I found it.

I am looking to increase the bouancy in my Kona and the tips here have been helpful.

However I am not sure if you need to attach (glue) the closed cell foam to the hull? I can not see how it helps if it just sits freely in the yak unless the yak is close to going under.

Also has anyone noticed if increasing the bouancy impacts on the yaks performance under normal conditions (e.g. it sits higher in the water and does not track as well).

In my situation I need the extra bouancy in when there are two in the yak as I sink the back or the frount too much. When it is set up for solo use it is fine.

I am new to the sport and just finished my yak crate, any insights or tips are welcome!!

Cheers,

Jason


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## Shufoy (May 28, 2008)

I personally dont use Pool Noodles for floatation, but i use them inside the hull to prevent stuff sliding to far fore and aft to reach thru my center hatch. They wedge nicely in the hull width wise, and form mini bulkheads. Very handy!!


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## ELM (Jul 14, 2008)

bigjase said:


> Hi all, great site, glad I found it.
> 
> I am looking to increase the bouancy in my Kona and the tips here have been helpful.
> 
> ...


Hi Jason, 
In your situation of trying to create extra buoyancy to support weight, putting flotation into the hull will not work. In your case you need to create more water displacement (pontoons/outriggers).

To give you an example: If you fill a scuba tank with compressed air (it does not expand in actual size) the cylinder becomes heavier and sinks, as you use the air it becomes more buoyant.
However, if you put a sinker inside a balloon and fill it with compressed air, it expands to creating a bigger surface area, although heavier with more air in it, it is more buoyant, because of the water displacement. Remove the air (reducing its actual size) and it will sink as there is minimal water displacement to support the sinker and balloon.

Here is a good site explaining the hydrostatics of a kayak: http://www.oneoceankayaks.com/smhydro/hydro.htm


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## bigjase (Jan 8, 2009)

OK. I can understand what you are saying and I sort of already could not see how it works but when I see statements like "a sheet 2.4 x 1.2 x 0.1 m will float 288kg" I am getting confused. I am under the impression some here think that adding foam adds bouancy. I know some manufacturers add foam to yaks and tinnies to create what they call "positive" bouancy.

Is there a difference??

Cheers,

Jason.


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## Junglefisher (Jun 2, 2008)

bigjase said:


> OK. I can understand what you are saying and I sort of already could not see how it works but when I see statements like "a sheet 2.4 x 1.2 x 0.1 m will float 288kg"


They mean if the foam was submerged, it would be able to hold 288kg out of the water.
Positive bouyancy refers to the fact that if the hull gets a gaping hole, it will remain afloat.


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## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

> I sort of already could not see how it works but when I see statements like "a sheet 2.4 x 1.2 x 0.1 m will float 288kg" I am getting confused.


Mate if you got a sheet of foam that size and placed it in the water you would need to load 288kg on top of it before it would loose positive bouyance.

Inside the yak it only works when the yak is filled with water, the foam will want to rise to the surface an float taking the yak with it, an hopefully if you have enough foam you will be able to sit on top and bail it out. Keeping some regular pool noodle in the yak too is good as its easily shaped into a plug for any holes eg gaff or ishI knife stuff ups.

Cheers Dave


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## ELM (Jul 14, 2008)

Hi Jason,
By adding buoyant material to the inside of the hull, the impact of it will only be noticed if the hull begins to take on water. It will then displace water inside the hull, possibly keeping it from completely sinking. It will not impact on the water displacement on the outside of the hull, there fore in your situation will not help.

What you need to do, is find out what the max weight (manufacturers specification) your kayak can carry, then work out what you and your passenger weight + any accessories you wish to carry. 
If the combined weight is under what the manufacturer states then you know you can still add more. If this is the case then use what weight you need either in the back or front to level your kayak so it handles better.

If you need to go to these extremes however, I would not venture far from shore and would at all times wear a PFD and carry some form of signal devise. Adding more weight inside the hull will have the opposite reaction as adding buoyancy inside the hull if it takes on water.


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## Crikey (Oct 30, 2005)

Wigg,

I have looked at fitting pool noodles in the past to give the yak buoyancy. The basic requirement is that the buoyancy you fit must be capable of displacing the volume of water equivalent to the mass of the yak and the load (you plus the gear you are carrying).

Assuming that the yak mass in the flooded condition is approx 130kg, that is weight of the yak, plus you sat on top plus gear, then using a standard 80mm diameter noodle you would have to fit approx 25 lineal metres of pool noodle into the hull to give you the required buoyancy. This is assuming negligible weight of the noodles and also that the noodles are not permeable. Might be a big call to find that much space inside the hull.

The figure is based on submersion in freshwater, you do gain a little in sea water due to the relative differences in densities.

If you do go along the lines of using the 2 part epoxy based buoyancy foam proceed with caution, it can be messy to work with, will require a lot of planning prior to installation to get it right you will not get a second chance to get it right, the chemical reaction during the mixing and setting process is exothermic so it can generate a lot of heat and appreciate that even though it is classed as ¨closed cell¨ it is slightly permeable and will absorb water. I cannot imagine this being a problem from weight gain in a yak but it will probably stink to high heaven after a while. When I was a Superintendent for a shipping company in Sydney we had all sorts of dramas with saturated closed cell foam in lifeboats, the water held in the foam in some boats amounted to several tonnes. The upshot of this was that if the boats had ever been used fully loaded to abandon ship the davits would have been overloaded. In the end the boats were weighed prior to the 5 yearly load tests to make sure that they were still nominal weight.

Hope this helps

Lloyd.


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## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

> When I was a Superintendent for a shipping company in Sydney we had all sorts of dramas with saturated closed cell foam in lifeboats


Gday Lloyd mate get some prefab foam from thermotec, its a closed cell foam that doesn't hold water. My prowler is filled with GP2 expanding foam and while it isn't to bad for water holding you can see that its going too. My outback is filled with Thermotec foam it has a high bouyance rate and very small cell structure so it won't hold the water, well it hasn't looked like it yet anyway, I have half a sheet inside the yak with plenty o space to spare an that should float 144kg according to there data.

Cheers Dave


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