# Overheads something new something borrowed



## ant (Aug 28, 2008)

Until recently I had never tried or owned an overhead reel. Since I discovered that I'll never grow old with a spinning reel and with the feedback from many on the forum I thought there might be something to this overhead caper. As usual the tackle shop had a special ( as they do ) on a combo Penn jigmaster and rod $90 (remembering Scott's recommendation). Seemed a reasonable investment for a first timer although I do have a slight nervousness to reels now made in China. Palmy Mick has also kindly allowed me to borrow his Shimano TLD 15 which many of the Palmy Army rate highly. Well ladies and gentlemen what a revelation, how good are these, I've decided to put the Alveys on the back burner for the time being whilst I see how this jigmaster holds up. After many fish with weights between a couple of kilo to around 15 kg I have to say I'm sold. "Fair to say the Shimano TLD 15 is a every smooth reel and the lever drag a dream to use but do you know I like the Jigmaster better. I pulled that Jigmaster to bits and as the forum guys said, not much to them and very easy maintenance. The link on the internet to a step by step breakdown of the reel supplied by Cheaterparts in an earlier post was a great help. Its still early days but I'm sort of excited by these things called "overheads".  

Cheers
Ant


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## skorgard (Oct 6, 2007)

Another happy convert! What took so long?


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

Yeah big egg beaters just look weird. I dont use any above 2500 size.
Not fussed on lever drags as I often accidentally back the drag off too much and end up with a birds nest. Prefer star drag. Also level winds are easier or a narrow spool......Maybe get a Trinidad one day.


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

mingle said:


> Try casting with one! :lol:


ABU


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## ant (Aug 28, 2008)

Well don't get me started on spinning reels I did that whinge in an earlier post. Some of you have expensive taste with Saltist, ABU and trinidads . That birds nest thing AWYT managed one of those last time I was out with the TLD certainly brought the fishing to a halt. Something I hope you only do once then you learn how to avoid it. That's enough out of you indie. And skorgard what the hell did take me so long suppose I grew up with Alveys and spinning reels the overheads were always the unknown. I am a convert.   
Cheers
Ant


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

Ant
Don't tell Dennis about overheads. He can't catch fish on his Alveys (at SWR). But neither could I on overheads and spinning reels.

Amazing guy for age 75!

Trevor


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## cheaterparts (Jul 3, 2010)

mingle said:


> Try casting with one! :lol:


I do all the time Mike wheres the problem - I use early penn 140 squidders on my 14 ft surf rods they cast great


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

Ant

Interesting to see you head this direction. For me, I just love the smoothness of a decent eggbeater, but then I'm happy to pay for servicing. I'm interested on your thoughts on things i have felt are limitations to the TLD:
1/ Mentioned a few times - No casting, so largely I am constrained to trolling with the TLD. But if I hit a busting bait ball, my second rig must always be an eggbeater.
2/ In theory should be fine for jigging, and the extra drag power should suit this perfectly. But it always seems messy with overwind and locking loops wrapped to the tip. Would be fun to have a decent strike at that time.
3/ For trolling, imho, the drag is excessive. I have mentioned before that I think that 5-8kg is about a max "yak lock-up". (You can get this from a Stradic 3000). Ie the point at which your yak is under tow is around 5kg. So to provide extra feel I back the drag off, but at light drag levels the strike position is dodgy. At best. 
4/ Need to swap over all your rods to selections with the spine in the right place.

I love the TLD, use it mostly with a paravane. The extra resistance lets me increase the drag a bit and things start working better. But I dont see how I can replce all eggbeaters on a normal in-shore fish.


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## ant (Aug 28, 2008)

Dru
You raise some interesting points and it is rather a steep learning curve for me. The great thing about kayak fishing is the fish can drag you around and tire itself with time being the limiting factor in this situation. I have a need at times to lift and or turn fish headed for structure. I fish with 30lb line so it is not a lot to work with, but with cranked up drag it is enough pressure to distort the internal components of my spinning reels. I suspect overheads in their design may long term be better suited to this. 
I have found that I am losing more fish on the overheads (breaking 27lbs wire on the macs) in having more resistance in the drag. Spooled (The Oracle) pointed this out to me and recommends the use of mono on overheads to provide a little more give in the initial strike. Just turning on the ratchet on the jigmaster provides more drag.
I'm lucky with the rods my ugly stiks can be either overhead or spin. (yes found this one hard to believe but true)
I have no doubt that a spinning reel like the Stradic for throwing a slug, allows for you being towed around and with regular servicing will last years. Safa has one which gave 3 years of loyal regular performance before dying.

Can an overhead do the same thing and last longer many on the forum believe so.

Cheers
Ant


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

A well set up ABU Ambassador will out cast a spinning reel, thats why they use them in casting tournaments.

Lever drags are very difficult to use. The better ones have twin drags and notches so you get more smoothness and dont under do or over do the drag.

Star drag is easier to pre set. I set to 1/4 braking strain which gives you the option to crank it up a touch or back it off a touch.
Are you using a scale to preset the drag or are you guessing?.....I tend to lose more fish when I guesstamate.

I believe Grant Ashwell top shots his reels with 50mtrs of mono, or at least he use to. I top shot mine with a 10mtr mono wind on leader which should give me enough spring.....thats if I ever hook anything needing that.

If your fishing in shallow water reefy water it probably wouldn't pay to use all mono, as it will be harder to stop the fish from reefing you......everything is a compromise and you need to find the best set up for yourself and the area you fish in.


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## gbc (Feb 16, 2012)

tld's have a theoretical sunset drag of 10 k.g. which really is bugger all. My tld 25 has had an Erskine carbontex upgrade and still barely gets there. The cam can be adjusted for any drag setting at strike if thats your preference. I prefer to keep the cam up tight so I can get to sunset using the lever. I also have a couple of Tyrnos reels but after seeing their woeful corrosion resistance I think I'll get another tld for yak business.
Shimano has really dropped the ball with their Malaysian products. I've got a mate with a corroded Malaysian Stella spool - not good enough.
For the record, I troll with the drag set about mid way between free and strike - enough not the let line out while trolling, or overrun when hit. I only go to strike when I have control of the rod and am ready to fight ala game fishing. A game spread is set with only just enough drag to stop the reels running out.


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## spork (Jan 21, 2012)

I also prefer eggbeaters for lighter stuff, but no reel I own will cast further than my old Diawa sealine SL25SH. I also have a bigger overhead, for trolling, and a smaller one for casting lighter gear. However, nearly all of my fishing is light tackle stuff, so all 3 overheads are getting dusty. That may change now, with the 'yak. Will see how the eggbeaters hold up. The overheads might get another run yet.


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## ant (Aug 28, 2008)

> Star drag is easier to pre set. I set to 1/4 braking strain which gives you the option to crank it up a touch or back it off a touch.
> Are you using a scale to preset the drag or are you guessing?.....I tend to lose more fish when I guesstamate.


Paul I must be using the guesstamate because I have no idea what using a scale to preset the drag means   Is there a simple explanation that an overhead novice might understand.
Cheers
Ant


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## cheaterparts (Jul 3, 2010)

mingle said:


> Do you have a metal spools on your older Penn reels or do you use the plastic spools?
> Mike.


my surf casting reels 140 squidders have plastic spools with ball bearings and no braking systems on these suckers
but are quite easy to control the over spin , sometimes in the cast I see the line grow off the spool with a small amount of over spin
but it only take a small amount of thumb presure to sit it back down on the spool

my kayak reels have metal spools most have the older plated brass and although they are a little heavier they carry a bit more line than the later aluminium spools

we used OHs for surf fishing from a young age - I still have one of dads old australian surfmaster reels ( it needs a tidy up )
I remember using these on cane surf rods

and dont get me wrong I also use spinning reels but on my lighter gear


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

ant said:


> > Star drag is easier to pre set. I set to 1/4 braking strain which gives you the option to crank it up a touch or back it off a touch.
> > Are you using a scale to preset the drag or are you guessing?.....I tend to lose more fish when I guesstamate.
> 
> 
> ...


Umm. Put the rod with reel attached into a rod holder. Run the line through the guides and tie the end onto a fish weighing scale and pull. 
Adjust the drag till you get the right amount.
1/4-1/3 braking strain is the usual (that might be different if your using very heavy line). So for 30lb line you want to set it at around 8lbs. Same goes for egg beater. Lever drag you might want to go a little higher for full strike.

It depends a little on the circumstances, but thats a ball park figure.

Thats what I meant.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

ArWeTherYet said:


> So for 30lb line you want to set it at around 8lbs.


Roughly what I expected - 30% of line strength isnt it? What confuses me it that modern 30 lb braid porbably has a breaking strength of 50lb-80lb. Wouldnt that mean you should set things at say 15-20lb?

This has often left me confused, it would be great if you can clarify. Of course the next step is how you select the rod to go with it.


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## ant (Aug 28, 2008)

Nice Paul thanks for the explanation I understand now.  

Cheers
Ant


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## BIGKEV (Aug 18, 2007)

dru said:


> ArWeTherYet said:
> 
> 
> > So for 30lb line you want to set it at around 8lbs.
> ...


Even though we all know lots of modern braids break at a higher breaking strain, I still think you should work with the manufacturers stated breaking strain, just in case.....You never know it could be that fish of a lifetime that is lost on the only occassion when the line does break at 30lb. This then takes the mystery out of your rod purchase too.


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## spork (Jan 21, 2012)

dru said:


> ArWeTherYet said:
> 
> 
> > So for 30lb line you want to set it at around 8lbs.
> ...


Yeah, just tie granny knots so that line will break closer to it's rating.


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

Yeah what Kev said. Theres lots of variables and not just line strength, but knot strength, how smooth your drag is, reel bearings, rod guides etc. especially under load. Its a compromise between something breaking and getting spooled or reefed.

Honestly dont know what the correct setting is for your gear, where your fishing. If I fish Scarby for 4-5kg Squire I'll set the drag on my 12lb line to 1kg. If I fish Margate I'll set it a little higher cause its shallower in Margate and the bastards fight dirty.

Pre setting your drag using a scale just takes a bit of the guess work out, it also will show how smooth your set up is. If the drag is getting sticky under load you should service it and maybe, if they arent already, use a set of Carbontex washers and a bit of Cals drag grease.

Drag Checkers is a pretty cool gadget.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

Ant, hope you dont mind my queries, think I'm kind of on topic, don't mean to hijack. With that apology...

Guys, I'm trying to gear up for Paindane (the Stealth comp in Mozambique). I'm guessing that the primary target will be "couta" or Spanish Mac's. Presume a little larger than our usual. I am.  i would think that many here will have definite preferences for this target.

I don't want to be pointlessly undergunned, but as a theme, from a yak I like to be on the light side. I'd rather catch more and smaller and keep busy, than bust one monster over a few days. And I don't drags much over 5kg help that much.

Unless advice is firmly to the contrary, two reels will be TLD and a Beastmaster SW 8000 (think of it as a larger Stradic). Any suggestions on

Line strength
Rod selection
Foolishness or otherwise of the reels

Ant, much interested in your thoughts here!


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