# REVERSE PEDALLING - WHAT IS THE ADVANTGE



## HAWKEYE3 (Jan 8, 2009)

There has been some discussions re Hobie Mirage Pedal System's inability to reverse.

I would like some views on the importance of being able to reverse pedal with other systems such as used on Native Watercraft.

Regards

Hawkeye3


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## Barrabundy (Sep 29, 2008)

When you drift into a spot where you can't just go forward to get out again, you need to either get the paddle or use your hands to point you in the right direction. If you feel getting your paddle out or using your hands, gaff, fishing rod are going to be a problem then you'll have to weigh it up. I've heard you can just pedal backwards with the Native Craft and you're on your way.

Keep it real though and consider that with a paddle yak you always have the paddle out anyway. It's as big or small a problem as you think it is.

Personally I'd wouldn't factor that into pro's and con's of which one to buy unless going backwards was going to be a major consideration.


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## kayaksportsmark (Apr 1, 2009)

HAWKEYE3 said:


> There has been some discussions re Hobie Mirage Pedal System's inability to reverse.
> 
> I would like some views on the importance of being able to reverse pedal with other systems such as used on Native Watercraft.
> 
> ...


The ability to pull back from structure especially overheads is a positive thing. Add personal health and safety factors by being able to manouver your kayak so you can work in front not twisting backwards and reverse is a winner.


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## feelfree09 (May 5, 2009)

reversing would be really handy with the mirage but in saying that not being able to reverse didnt stop me from buying my PA. altho if hobie come out with a reverse option i'd definately upgrade. the only times ive ever needed reverse is in some of SA's mangrove creeks and when getting dragged around the pontoons in westlakes. being able to reverse away from structure would be the main benefit.


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## Southerly (Apr 20, 2007)

Depends ont he typs of fishing you with to do, if in heavy structure or tight spaces or with overhead hazards as stated then reverese is a good idea and may be a must.

If you mostly troll open water or fish offshore then reverese is irrelevant and other considerations are more important. It is all part of the trade off that comes with any particular yak selection.

David


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## Murphysegg (Oct 21, 2010)

Is there something in development? Someone told me Shimano had something similar in the pipeline but i can't find any info on it.


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## skorgard (Oct 6, 2007)

You can go backwards with a Mirage drive - you just need to put it in backwards. There was a post from QLD where the fisho would do this when fishing for mangrove jacks so that he could quickly get them out if the snags after a strike. I did it by accident a few weeks ago with a dawn beach launch - took me a few seconds to work out why I was going back to the shore!


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## Nativeman (Sep 6, 2005)

Why does a car have a reverse gear? :roll:


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## GregL (Jul 27, 2008)

Why doesn't a bike have reverse? :twisted:

The old 'they'd be great if they went backwards' comment will never be answered to everyone's satisfaction. 
Some will always want 'reverse'.
Some will have initially wanted reverse, but do fine without it.
Many will have no need for reverse.

Personally, yes, there have been the odd occasions where being able to quickly go from forward movement to a reverse movement would have been handy, but 99.9% of the time I find no actual need for it. I regularly fish tight, snaggy creeks, and of course area's of heavy structure, and although reverse may indeed give another dimension to my fishing that may at times be handy, it certainly hasn't been a missing part of it. I reckon that I added up all the actual time I've spent going backwards in my yak, I'd be very surprised if it equated to any more than half an hour - and thats over a few years now.

As far as using reverse to fight a fish and 'drag it out' of structure, well quite simply, unless you are using a locked up drag - its a bit of a urban myth imo.
Think about it. You hook up to a beast, it dives back into its hidey hole bit of structure, ripping drag, and then you start moving backwards. As long as the fish is swimming one way, and you are moving the other, all thats going to happen is that you're going to increase the amount of line that's out - regardless if you're going forwards or backwards. There's also a very good chance that you'll be steering at the same time, so you're not even going to be winding.

Horses for courses though. I fish heaps, and I don't _need_ reverse. My QLD friends who hit up Jacks and barra, they do.

Regards,
Greg


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## ELM (Jul 14, 2008)

Not that I fish under structure but if you need to reverse out because current what ever is taking you under branches etc and rods or rod are in danger of snagging up, because we don't use the paddle normally and pedal, it would be quicker and easier to be able to pedal backwards if it had reverse, argument could be, by time you turn the drive around to reverse out, you could have grabbed your paddle to do the same? 
Trouble is you are (1) not used to grabbing the paddle and slow (2) have a rod in one hand and rudder control in the other, have you got time to put the second rod down position the rudder or lift it so you can then control direction with the paddle once you are using it? 
Having a reverse would be a lot easier, is it necessary, I think if you had it, it would open up a whole new dimension to the way you already fish with a pedal drive kayak.

I have often used reverse (put the mirage in backwards) to fish, I find it a great way to bounce plastics along gutters and drop offs, rather then troll a plastic behind where I cannot add any extra controlled action or carefully watch the line on the surface of the water when going forward. If you go in reverse its quite the opposite, you can use the drive to your advantage using speed to add action, you can see and control your rod a lot better so once again add more action, watch your line on the waters surface so you can see timid bites and then react to those bites. If you are also sounding at the same time and see some arches etc, the turning circle and time is greatly reduced if you wish to turn and work back over the marks that you just found. Having reverse will also allow you to hold position in current if you wish to cast down current into structure, not the most ideal way to fish as most fish face into the current and would therefore be looking at you, but it will allow you to do it if need be. The down side is it does add a lot of load on your rudder and you cannot move quickly due to that load, it is also very hands on with one hand that has to stay on the rudder and the other controlling the rod which means you cannot control the rudder and wind at the same time (no good for the late situation casting down current).


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## sbd (Aug 18, 2006)

Gary & I have idled away the odd morning on the water discussing the possible merits of a gps linked water thruster for holding position while fishing a mark or structure, sorta like a virtual anchor, but in a stupidly complex manner. It'd be easy to incorporate reverse into this kind of setup ;-) .

My Grandpa always said I'd want portholes in my coffin though.

Whether you like a particular yak will depend on the balance of a whole range of features, reverse may well be a sticking point for any given person, but so might seating position, reliability, service, storage, colour, weight, accessories, water cred... Only you can make the call as to how any given feature set stacks up. The best way to make the call is to get a ride in as many yaks as possible that fit your general criteria, some on water experience will make the decision much simpler.


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## HAWKEYE3 (Jan 8, 2009)

Thank you all respondents for your thoughts. You have actually helped as there are a few more options presented for me to consider. Keep the contributions coming.

Regards

Hawkeye3


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## mustrumr (Feb 27, 2009)

Great post, Elm! I've often wished I had a reverse for the Hobie, and I agree with you that



> it would open up a whole new dimension to the way you already fish with a pedal drive kayak.


But although I've known about the "reverse your pedals" thing for a while I've never tried it, and I've certainly never thought about it for using plastics. What a great idea!

I like to use as light a jig head as possible in most situations and often the drift is just too fast to maintain contact with the plastic in the strong breezes here in Perth. By the time the plastic hits the bottom you are on top of it, or you have to go to a much heavier jig head which ruins the action of the plastic on the descent.

I'll definitely be giving this technique a go - thanks!


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## ELM (Jul 14, 2008)

Hi mustrumr, you will find it quite strange for a while and may even give up, I know I did a couple of time's. Once you get used to it how ever it is a very good technique.
You will find if you try to go fast, the pressure and leverage on the rudder will snap it around slamming it to full lock, it's a very fine balance and can be hard on the rudder pins and line's.

I tend to do say two quick kicks on the pedals as I lift/twitch the rod lifting the plastic from the bottom, then as the kayak slows I lay the rod forward watching the slack line on the surface for bite's, letting it settle to the bottom. Two more quick pumps, twitch twitch, lay the line down and watch, kick Kick, twitch twitch, lay and you can do the same with surface poppers etc. 
The other good part is it makes for very visible fishing unlike when trolling behind you miss seeing the actual hit, instead just see your rod buckle.

If you drift down stream watching for surface action, you can then hold position, cast down over the fish and work the lure back up to the fish. If you try this though, it helps to have a small wedge cut so you can stick it under the rudder handle (brake) to help hold position and free that second hand for the reel.

Even tried a mirror for a while as I backed into some guy fishing in his boat :lol: , luckily he saw the funny side of it and was more interested in the style I was fishing (more amazed in that than anything).

Mix it up a bit how you do it, I think it's well worth doing and surprised few are already doing it, good luck and love to here some feed back.


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

It would stop sbd crashing into me every time we have a chat  
May also assist in the handing over of live bait and to pull fish out of the washes.

On a paddle yak I clip my paddle to the side whilst playing a fish so should be any different for a hobie to pick up the paddle and use it.
I personally think being able to peddle backwards would be a big asset.


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## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

> Gary & I have idled away the odd morning on the water discussing the possible merits of a gps linked water thruster for holding position while fishing a mark or structure, sorta like a virtual anchor, but in a stupidly complex manner. It'd be easy to incorporate reverse into this kind of setup .


They have one dave check out the new leccies from minikota, they will hold your position or run you along a track via gps and without lifting a finger. Easily mounted to a PA on the back for those inclined.

the ability to reverse is way overrated and i would rather have the forward speed of the mirage than the reverse of the native. Interesting I haven't seen a native turn up in the comps yet, I thought someone would have entered in one they seem made to enter the comp fishing.

Cheers Dave


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## feelfree09 (May 5, 2009)

if ya wanna reverse a hobie i'd be getting a evolve or water serpent elec motor. altho it is certainly possible to put the mirage in backwards the pressure on the drive would put me off. horses for courses i reckon. cheers


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## Dan85 (Oct 27, 2009)

I just have the paddle with the t-handle on it in the footwell of the PA(theres heaps of room and its never in the way. normally i cast sideways if im in tight to something but if required i can just drop my rod into the holder and grab the paddle quick and go back far enough to get around. a good thing with the PA is if im sitting casting into somewhere tight and im just hanging there i generally keep the rudder at full lock in the quickest direction out and a few quick stabs on the pedals sees me heading back out to the wide blue. I only ever fish with one rod nowadays as ive lost a rod or three trying to juggle double hooks ups so now i just dont bother and keep my other rods seafely secured down in the horizontal rod stroage untill i want them.


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## Nativeman (Sep 6, 2005)

justcrusin said:


> the ability to reverse is way overrated and i would rather have the forward speed of the mirage than the reverse of the native. Interesting I haven't seen a native turn up in the comps yet, I thought someone would have entered in one they seem made to enter the comp fishing.
> 
> Cheers Dave


Hey Dave, there is one in the KFT comps up here in QLD, Hopefully Storm or AKFF won't mind me putting this link up of it.

http://www.photographicstorm.com/Sports ... 2806_2FWae

It looks like a fishing machine..A member on here owns it, I can't remember who ;-)

Cheers


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## Plasman (Aug 27, 2008)

For the Hobie Boys and Gals, not having reverse is like missing a finger. You learn to live without it but you would use it if you had it :lol: .
Where I would find reverse (which I have on my lap :lol: a paddle) beneficial would be more about holding position and not being dragged in rather than dragging the fish out. Let's face it, it doesn't take a lot of fish power to pull your kayak.


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## john316 (Jan 15, 2009)

at the risk of sounding a bit rude the reverse argument seems to be more for the fun of the debate than an actual "need". Haven't got it and don't need it as I do grab the paddle if I ever need to back up and most of the places I go its easy enough to just turn in a circle and head of in a forward direction...

cheers

John


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## Yak4ever (Nov 19, 2010)

Mmmmm, reverse isn't that going backwards, no thanks forward is the clearer path.


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## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

> Hey Dave, there is one in the KFT comps up here in QLD, Hopefully Storm or AKFF won't mind me putting this link up of it.
> 
> http://www.photographicstorm.com/Sports ... 2806_2FWae
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link Sel, hopefully he will turn up to a few of the ABT's. For me its a bit like Skeeter V Triton V Stratos they are all good boats but the owners love theres more :twisted: :lol:


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## Dan85 (Oct 27, 2009)

Nativeman said:


> Hey Dave, there is one in the KFT comps up here in QLD, Hopefully Storm or AKFF won't mind me putting this link up of it.
> 
> http://www.photographicstorm.com/Sports ... 2806_2FWae
> 
> ...


I havent seen any pictures of people landing fishing in a bicycleyak yet so its obviously never happened :lol: see even those pics he isnt catching anything :twisted:

seriously tho they look like nice boats. are they slower than the mirage drives? i get the impression they arent as big as a PA so comparing them to a outback? would they be slower or faster?


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