# finding it hard to support the local tackle shop



## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

I'm after a new reel and on having a look and a chat at the tackle shop i decided a Daiwa Capricorn 4500 J would suit what i need.
The price in the shop is $299, i said i would go and have a think about it as it is more $$$ than i have spent before.
When i got home i did a bit of looking and from what i can see the Daiwa Freams 4500 J is the same reel overseas. It looks like i could pick one of these up on line from overseas for about $150.
I love and support the idea of keeping the tackle shop going but 2 for the price of one :shock: that makes it hard, if the reel was $180 in the shop i would have brought it there and then as that is a lot easier to part with than $299.

I wouldn't want to see the tackle shops disappear but hard earned money is hard earned money.

your thoughts ???
and does anyone have one of these reels ?


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## fishnfreak (Jun 22, 2007)

thats the reason why i will buy off-chance finds like yours with the freams/ capricorn for less, but i still buy all tackle: hooks, sinkers jigs etc from Local Fishing Shop. If its a hell of a lot less than what the LFS can get it to you then you may have to go overseas


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## abitfishy (Sep 24, 2006)

I agree to a certain extent. With the aussie dollar so strong, things SHOULD be cheaper. Put it this way, if the aussie dollar slumped as quickly as it has raised, the shops would put the prices up the next day, long before any price changes actually made their way to retail level. Won't do it the other way around, will they? Really pisses me off (can I say 'pisses' here? Well, I have, twice. :lol: :lol: )

I purchased a sounder today, supporting the local bloke, spent a small fortune in there over the few years I've had boats/kayaks, would not drop even $9 off the price when I mentioned a competitor will do it for the $9 less. I didn't push hard, just asked them to 'take care of me as a regular' to which the reply was 'oh, everyones pretty much a regular here'. Well, my reply - 'not for long!'. In future they can stick it up their backsides, I'll be buying off Ebay US for future sounder/gps purchases and get something ten times better for the same price.


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## DrJed (Sep 13, 2007)

Money talks bud.

I am one of the biggest advocates of giving my business to the little guys - even if it means a few extra $$. Problem is they cannot compete on that kind of price difference  . 
Buy the reel from overseas, but use the local bloke for other stuff he is competitive on 8) .

If I were you I would buy the reel overseas, then so I didn't feel bad, take the money I saved and shout myself a heap of new lures ect.. :lol: ......just a thought (do we really need encouraging????)

Cheers
Steve


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## abitfishy (Sep 24, 2006)

I don't expect the local to come close to matching US ebay, just 'look after us' when we do support them regularly. It does work both ways.


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## Latitude (Nov 17, 2007)

Keza, my preferred tackle store sells that reel for $279. As I understand it if you found the best price in the world on a Freams 4500J, you might pay US$125 for it from anybody halfway legitimate, plus freight (say $30), converted to $A today with a card fee, say $180. The Freams bought overseas has no warranty to all intents, where the Capricorn has five years and you need only take it as far as that tackle store guy that just spent half an hour explaining the benefits to you; the Freams has 4+1 bearings where the Capricorn has 5+1; the Freams has one spool where the Capricorn has two; and maybe the Freams doesn't have an air bail, not sure. For the Freams, you get to give somebody in Asia your credit card numbers (!), and then you get to hope something turns up undamaged in the mail eventually.

So for the 'extra' $100 I'd spend locally, I'd get a spare spool (gotta be worth at least $50), a 5-year warranty (gotta be worth at least $30, maybe a lot more), another ball bearing... should I go on?

Oh, and $30 (GST) of what you will pay locally goes to pay for Kevin Rudd's budget, and odds are you voted for him.

I find it very easy to support the local tackle shop.


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## abitfishy (Sep 24, 2006)

Thats fine with something only worth < $200 or so, but compare it to the sounder I was looking at - $669 or so here, a tad over $300 delivered from the US. Given warranty was only 1 year instead of 2 or 3, and warranty returns are a pain to get back to the US, for about $300 I reckon its still a bargain!


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

I'm sure most blokes would buy local if the store sold at a reasonable price, I realise with some items like reels and sounders they cant compete, but I cant understand how they can expect people to pay, for instants $21 for a SX40, when you can pick them up at BCF and other places for less than $18. Surely it would be better to cut the profit margin and sell more stock? better than going dusty on the shelf.
I tend to buy a lot of stuff off E-bay, local and overseas and find that most Asian sellers are very efficient. Ive had stuff delivered to my door within 48 hrs from Malaysia and Singapore. But you should always check the feed backs before committing......My next reel should be arriving any day now.


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## yaker (Aug 29, 2005)

gra said:


> ...then you have to ship it from said importer to the ends of a very large country which costs buckets in freight, which often gets amortised across all the product sold. ie, the guy in Cairns may pay the same freight cost as the guy in Newcastle for a product originating from Sydney...


The freight argument is often used. The company for which I work sends quite a lot of small freight (medical supplies). 3kg box (30x30x30cm), overnight, anywhere in Australia for $8. Dispatched from our door at 5pm and it's delivered generally around 10 or 11am the next day.

Allow 750g for a reel, that's four reels freighted for $8 -- $2 each. A box full of lures is only going to add cents to the cost of each lure.


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## johnny (Aug 12, 2007)

Jeff at Freddy's Raymond Terrace says marine parks and overseas purchasing has forced his and 2 Byron Bay shops to close down .I think he said ,for example,reel purchases were down 30%?I think Daiwa Aust. etc, holds the shops to ransom too. The more I know,the less I know! 
Johnny


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## JT (May 25, 2006)

The guy responsible for purchasing at the local Anaconda store tells me that Daiwa are adamant that stores selling their product do not discount the recommended retail price. Protects price point, reinforces high end product image (and fact) and really ignores the inevitable trend toward global purchasing.

Daiwa TD Sol wholesale price $207.00
Daiwa Sol RRP $359.95

Seems like a decent margin to me. I can't put my hand over my heart and tell you that those numbers are accurate. It is just info given to me by a purchaser at a store.

I don't know what it is about local tackle stores but they just don't do it for me. There are so many ways to educate yourself on products of interest and value as a result of this internet thingy. Most tackle stores I find are a second rate experience. Perhaps I am just cheap but if you can save a huge amount of money buying from Japan with their awesome customr service and dependability why wouldn't you do it?

JT


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## wolfy (Apr 27, 2007)

> The problem unfortunately is not with your poor old bloke at the tackle store, it's the extra level we have in a lot of imported products (not just fishing gear)


Spot on.

The guy at the tackle store is not ripping you off, he is trying to make a fair profit based on what he is forced to pay. There are many levels and restrictive practices in the tackle industry, and frankly the more I hear about it the more corrupt it seems to be.

We all like to give the local bloke a go, but with price differences like that, not many will be prepared to. In fact I would argue that you have already given him a go by getting a price there in the first place.

Your decision will be based on a blend of price, warranty, security, service and delivery, not price alone.

I think the advice given to buy the reel from the US/Japan or whatever and use the change to buy some new lures from your local is an excellent one. Exactly what I would do.

Loyalty can only go so far!


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

i was afraid you would all say that, 
from my point of view i have now bought about 200 things off ebay with only 2 glitches and a lot of stuff from overseas stores with no problems, so that is that one ticked off.
I have never taken a reel back under warranty and usually wouldn't know where the receipt of card are, so that one is gone.
And i have a cupboard with spare spools that have never been used, i know the spare spool would be $50 bucks extra but would i use it ? i am trying to get rods and reels set up for different purposes, i don't like changing a lure let alone a spool. So i think that is strike 3 and out for the tackle shop.

Thanks for the input guys it was only my conscience that was holding me back but the funny thing is that no one who gives or doesn't give me work has a conscience so why should i.

kerry


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

yastrading.com - special discount at the mo - never bought from these guys though so will not endorse them

Woppie


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## feel the sting (Aug 8, 2006)

The other piece to the puzzle is what you see in a catalogue or on an internet site is not exactly what you get. Now thats OK when you know exactly what you want and how it goes, but when you don't it can sometimes be disappointing when that item arrives. And where do you go to check out what an item looks like or how it goes but your local tackle store.

the sting


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## wolfy (Apr 27, 2007)

gra - right on, my thoughts exactly.

I shop a lot from overseas via the web, China, Russia, France, England and of course the USA. The only time I was ever ripped off was right here in my backyard from a home grown Dinkum-Aussie crook.

Yeah you are prepared to pay a little extra at the local store, more than you would at a market or whatever where there are no overheads and you may never find the guy again. There is a limit though.


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Saying that I would rarely buy a rod from an internet company - always buy from local guy.

Woppie


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## Latitude (Nov 17, 2007)

I think you missed my point entirely Keza - you were comparing apples with cheese or something like that. If you want a reel with no warranty and a wire bail and four bearings and one spool, why are you looking at a Capricorn? It doesn't match your requirements, it's a better reel. So I could suggest you go back to the store and ask for what you really want, but then the circle may begin again, and the poor sales guy would probably much rather be spending time with his customers.

I can understand it with some electronics, where the market is evidently somewhat out of kilter, but really, how 'hard-earned' is this little-if-any difference on most things when most of you squirt more than that into your fuel tank 50 times a year? How great is the 'customer service' in (OS) really, when all they have to do is charge your card and send your order? Big deal. There's no logic in this.



> no one who gives or doesn't give me work has a conscience so why should i.


That's a thought process guaranteed to have you be unhappy. Carry on.


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## hairymick (Oct 18, 2005)

Guys,

i have been pretty loud in my defense of the "local bloke" in times past, but recently i have been buying more and more stuff here,

http://www.cabelas.com/home.jsp?_reques ... estid=2578

From tackle to clothes, their prices are fantastic compared to what we are being forced to pay locally. The service is even better!. I can order on line today and for a modest freight and handling charge, it will be at my door in about 10 days. Sometimes quicker!

Even their home brand "Cabelas" stuff is top quality. I don't use the top shelf rods or reels, more like what I consider to be the better quality mid range stuff. When I buy a very nice little reel like this one,

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templ ... hasJS=true

Add a couple of very good Columbia shirts for about 40 bucks, a handfull of good lures lures and a little something for the missus to keep her sweet and get the lot landed at my door for around AUD$150.00 and I am a very happy shopper indeed.

BTW, those same Columbia shirts retail in my local BCF for around 90 bucks each.


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

Latitude said:


> I think you missed my point entirely Keza - you were comparing apples with cheese or something like that. If you want a reel with no warranty and a wire bail and four bearings and one spool, why are you looking at a Capricorn? It doesn't match your requirements, it's a better reel. So I could suggest you go back to the store and ask for what you really want, but then the circle may begin again, and the poor sales guy would probably much rather be spending time with his customers.
> 
> I can understand it with some electronics, where the market is evidently somewhat out of kilter, but really, how 'hard-earned' is this little-if-any difference on most things when most of you squirt more than that into your fuel tank 50 times a year? How great is the 'customer service' in (OS) really, when all they have to do is charge your card and send your order? Big deal. There's no logic in this.
> 
> ...


well i would have to see the stats that you are looking at to get your point, from what i am seeing it is the same reel under a different name for the oz market, the freams has the same bail as the capricorn and yes one spool but as i said i have never used the second spool, that just leaves the bearings and this one i'm not sure on but from what i gather the capricorn states 5 bearing and the freams states 4/1, different terminology but it looks like the same reel (apples with apples) and the cost to my door is AU $150 compared with AU $299.

I didn't actually mention my requirements as they aren't relevant to this post.
As for the attitude, i have tried to support the local market for a long time but when i realised it wasn't supporting me i started buying things from offshore and now i feel much happier thanks.
     
i'm still smiling


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## wolfy (Apr 27, 2007)

Hairymick - Cabelas is the true Heaven.


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## Latitude (Nov 17, 2007)

If you can't get the point, I'll say it again: a 4+1 reel with one spool and no warranty is not the same reel as a 5+1 reel with two spools and a five-year warranty. To say they should be similar in price is like saying a Caprice should be a similar price to a Commodore because they have the same windscreen.


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

Latitude, i have tried to look into the additional bearing and putting 2 and 2 together i would say that the extra bearing for the oz market is to do with the handle being on the right for oz where as other countries have it on the left.
I wind with the left so that wouldn't effect me but it is and interesting point for a lot of australians.


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

Latitude said:


> If you can't get the point, I'll say it again: a 4+1 reel with one spool and no warranty is not the same reel as a 5+1 reel with two spools and a five-year warranty. To say they should be similar in price is like saying a Caprice should be a similar price to a Commodore because they have the same windscreen.


i have never said they should be the same, i have asked peoples opinion on buying local or off shore.
My point is that i don't want the extra bearing, warranty or spool


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## Latitude (Nov 17, 2007)

> if the reel was $180 in the shop i would have brought it there and then


Oh.


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## Latitude (Nov 17, 2007)

Never saw the profile thing before gra, but let's not hijack the post. You're on the wrong track with me, just unfortunately tried to make a couple of worldly people see there's more to the world. But up against it hey. Filled a bit in.


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

StevenM said:


> keza said:
> 
> 
> > i have never said they should be the same, i have asked peoples opinion on buying local or off shore.
> ...


thanks for that, i had come to the conclusion that the bearing was in the handle and since i wind with the left the freams is set up for me.
thanks for confirming it for me it puts my mind at easy.
and yes i wanted the reel for jigging and i will use it for my live bait as well.
thanks again


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## wolfy (Apr 27, 2007)

Keza I know what you are talking about, apples and apples as far as I can see.


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## wolfy (Apr 27, 2007)

Latitude - this is a pretty friendly place here... take a chill pill mate.

Your'e getting up peoples noses already and we don't know you yet.


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Dont get me wrong - I am not biased  but try one of these :lol: :lol: Twinpower 8000 HG (15kg Drag) !!!!

http://yastrading.com/index.php?main_pa ... =3a&page=3

Best Price Ive seen - havnt dealt with them though!!!


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## fishingchap (Sep 7, 2007)

so its not just me

some tackle shops service is appauling 
the camberra tackleworld show was the ive ever been treated
my dad was about to buy a new penn slammer reel and rod the reel was $210 AND THE ROD WAS $110 we waited up there for 30 minutes and then we went down to yhe store and told one of the guys and he said talk to manager he knows most about them so he too kus to his manager and the manager was out the of the store and goes "im with another customer little did he no we were about to buy one of the dimgies that were $2100


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## JT (May 25, 2006)

StevenM said:


> Kerry
> 
> dont get me wrong, I am not biased to any brand (well yes Diawa) but have you considered a Spheros?
> 
> ...


Good idea of Steven's there Kerry. I have a Spheros 8000 and it is built like a brick s*&thouse.. 10kgs of drag and good for jigging (so said the novice jigger i.e. moi 8) )

You should also be able to get it for around $200 if you negotiate.

JT


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## Dave73 (Dec 3, 2006)

Kerry

I was looking into this size reel (or the next size up) for my own requirements recently, similar to yours but I was looking for larger spool capacity and for 50lb braid.
Reckon the Freams J and Capricorn J would have been pretty good, and cheap o/s.
You could possibly find their limits on a big fish though, so 30lb braid would be spot on.

Twinpower 8000 is great, but lots more $$ (I ended up with this)
Saltiga Blast / 4500Z / Catalina etc are big $$$ but reels for a lifetime.

Spheros would be as strong as the above reels and easy to live with, serviceable, known as a tough durable reels.

As for local or O/S, touchy subject and one I'm not going near.

cheers Dave


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Kerry and Dave

if you go the Twinpower (Dave you've got yours) just dont do up the drag too tight and leave it in the holder - YIKES!!! You could get pulled over and in !!!!! Like me yesterday !!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

i was thinking 30lb braid and 50lb fluro leader, this seems to give me 400m of line on the 4500 J , i know it wont stop everything but it is a step in the right direction and at $160 i can take another step later if i want.
It is designed for braid which my other reels aren't.
If i move up to the more expensive reels like the twin power i would need to put more thought into it and at the moment i'm thinking this reel is the first step and the second step is that my rods have fuji guides on them and it may be an idea to replace the tips as from what i have heard a good run from a kingie on braid could melt them or damage the line.
cheers
guys


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## abitfishy (Sep 24, 2006)

On the same subject, I've ordered the transducer boot for the elite from Whitworths. They did not have it in stock and needed to get it in. They have the hide to charge me freight! Since flamin when does a retailer charge freight for ordering something in they don't have in stock? This is bloody disgusting and I am going to tell them this when I pick it up this afternoon.

My prior dealings with whitworths have been ok, however the last couple of purchases this week have put me off them altogether. Not to mention the hopeless staff have not been able to answer any of my questions wanting advice on a few things. I might not mind paying full price + freight on everything if they actually had a clue.

This seals it for me, unless its something I can't get or need quickly, I'll be buying online or from Bias. Stuff whitworths.


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## JT (May 25, 2006)

keza said:


> i was thinking 30lb braid and 50lb fluro leader, this seems to give me 400m of line on the 4500 J , i know it wont stop everything but it is a step in the right direction and at $160 i can take another step later if i want.
> It is designed for braid which my other reels aren't.
> If i move up to the more expensive reels like the twin power i would need to put more thought into it and at the moment i'm thinking this reel is the first step and the second step is that my rods have fuji guides on them and it may be an idea to replace the tips as from what i have heard a good run from a kingie on braid could melt them or damage the line.
> cheers
> guys


You might want to check out the Spheros Kerry considering your intent to step up from the reel you are considering at a later time. Shimano has an upgrade kit for the Speros that fits Stella drag, Stella bearings and some other stuff turning a very competent reel into a Stella like beast. An upgraded Spheros from the start costs about $365 but you should get the standard Speros for $200 if you bargain. Don't know what the upgrade costs at a later time.

What ever you end up doing mate good luck and have fun.

JT


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

JT said:


> You might want to check out the Spheros Kerry considering your intent to step up from the reel you are considering at a later time. Shimano has an upgrade kit for the Speros that fits Stella drag, Stella bearings and some other stuff turning a very competent reel into a Stella like beast. An upgraded Spheros from the start costs about $365 but you should get the standard Speros for $200 if you bargain. Don't know what the upgrade costs at a later time.
> 
> What ever you end up doing mate good luck and have fun.
> 
> JT


JT is that the 8000 FA ?
i can get one for about the same price AU$ 160, i haven't seen on in the flesh but appearance wise i prefer the freams, is the spheros similar in size?
As i have been using my emblem pro (4500) which looks huge because of the spool i was loving the size of the freams.
god this is worse than buying a dress  (from what i have seen of course)


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## sbd (Aug 18, 2006)

keza said:


> god this is worse than buying a dress


At least your ars3 won't look big in a reel.


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

sbd said:


> keza said:
> 
> 
> > god this is worse than buying a dress
> ...


a reel big ars3


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

wopfish said:


> Kerry and Dave
> 
> if you go the Twinpower (Dave you've got yours) just dont do up the drag too tight and leave it in the holder - YIKES!!! You could get pulled over and in !!!!! Like me yesterday !!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:


i have had that at clovelly once Dick, it was the first time i have had to throw my legs over the sides of the yak and then i couldn't get the rod out of the holder :shock:


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

I know what your saying about getting the bloody rod out of its holder under pressure !! and I was also in fear several times of my bloody flush mounts ripping out after a few good takes!!!!


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## JT (May 25, 2006)

keza said:


> JT said:
> 
> 
> > You might want to check out the Spheros Kerry considering your intent to step up from the reel you are considering at a later time. Shimano has an upgrade kit for the Speros that fits Stella drag, Stella bearings and some other stuff turning a very competent reel into a Stella like beast. An upgraded Spheros from the start costs about $365 but you should get the standard Speros for $200 if you bargain. Don't know what the upgrade costs at a later time.
> ...


Yep the 8000 FA. I am not familiar with the Freams mate so can't comment on it. The Spheros won't be winning any beauty competitions I must admit. The Spheros is a bit like having a big chunky East German Soviet era sheila weeding your garden. She may not be much to look at but boy can she pull those weeds 8)

JT


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

sounds like you have a nice garden JT 

i think i will go for the freams this time but there is a 8000 FA finishing on ebay today for just under AU$160 inc shipping.
i like the feel of the freams


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## JT (May 25, 2006)

keza said:


> sounds like you have a nice garden JT
> 
> i think i will go for the freams this time but there is a 8000 FA finishing on ebay today for just under AU$160 inc shipping.
> i like the feel of the freams


Well done Mate. You gotta be happy with what you buy and the freams sounds bloody great! 8)

JT


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## landyman (Oct 17, 2007)

gra said:


> Latitude,
> 
> Again me old mate I find the need to pull you up.
> 
> Is it possible you are an angry old retailer who's trying to sway us against our own consumer-ish tastes? your very few posts seem to be rather antagonistic, irrespective of the topic. No offence intended but it's just the vibe I get man.. Perhaps you had trouble keeping customers?? It's Ok mate, let it out... It's Ok to cry..





Latitude said:


> Never saw the profile thing before gra, but let's not hijack the post. You're on the wrong track with me, just unfortunately tried to make a couple of worldly people see there's more to the world.


so why the agro then ???
and why do you feel it is your newbie right to show us your world... get to know some of the guys first, earn a little respect - THEN start agro if you feel appropriate..

back on topic... just buy what makes you feel warm and fuzzy mate.. I bought a Kaldia Kix 2000 of ebay the other day for $170 (or so) - fantastic reel.. nice and smooth, good drag.. and a bargain at the price.. who cares about a bearing here or there if the value is good its good..


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## Heath (Nov 15, 2006)

I've been buying OS for years. When I got my sounder back in 2003 there was a lot of interest in how it panned out. Since then its become an every day event. To the point that looking OS is the first place I look nowdays.
Not only limited to fishing gear either. My cameras, DVDs, PC bits, kids chrissy presents, MP3 players, name brand clothes, etc mostly come from OS.


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## Dodge (Oct 12, 2005)

> THEN start agro if you feel appropriate..


Personally on AKFF, I don't think agro is appropriate anytime :shock:

Have no problem with differing views though 8)


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## Latitude (Nov 17, 2007)

> why do you feel it is your newbie right


Landy, it's kind of like when you feel it is your valued member right to decree how graphite blanks are coloured (you were wrong) and that Fireline isn't a braid (you were wrong). it's having the conviction to stand up for your opinion. Unfortunately, having 'earnt a little respect' does not hence make your opinion fact.


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## ocelot (Sep 30, 2007)

You're right, at some point retailers underestimate consumers and the internet. Anybody can agree to pay a reasonable difference but not double the price. Stores are in trouble if they do not change their ways since they do not make enough with hooks and sinkers  
Cheers


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## wolfy (Apr 27, 2007)

> and that Fireline isn't a braid (you were wrong).


Nice to have an ego I guess. Anyway, Fireline is typically called "braid" more as a term of convenience, even a slang term for ease in marketing; because Fireline is a "*fused*" line, not a true braid, and considerably cheaper.

You are wrong!


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## Latitude (Nov 17, 2007)

> You are wrong!


Well, ya see, when somebody says the moon is a quarter-million-miles away, we're kind of forced to believe them (or not) because we have no way of proving them right or wrong - or maybe we do - I dunno. It's a bit close to rocket science for plebs like us.

But determining whether all the internet geniuses who decree that Fireline isn't a braid are right or wrong really isn't that hard. You just take some well-worn Fireline, like I have on a couple of reels, and pick away at it around the fire one night until it is no longer 'fused' - and waddya know - within all that hype is a regular braid; well not so regular i s'pose, it's only braided at about five picks per inch, a lot less than Tuf XP or Fins, but indisputably braided.

Heh, I say indisputably braided, but what do you bet somebody immediately disputes it because they 'know'.

Dry as a dead dingo's donger, sorry.


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## landyman (Oct 17, 2007)

Latitude said:


> > You are wrong!
> 
> 
> Well, ya see, when somebody says the moon is a quarter-million-miles away, we're kind of forced to believe them (or not) because we have no way of proving them right or wrong - or maybe we do - I dunno. It's a bit close to rocket science for plebs like us.
> ...


mate.. seriously get over yourself.. the blank colouring topic i said "I think" not "is definitely" ... and as for Fireline... well here is a quote from Berkley themselves.. :roll:

FireLine Tips

The following are some tips and ideas to help answer questions on FireLine.

Fire Line Facts: FireLine is a thermal filament fishing line, NOT a mono and NOT a braid. It is made from MICRO Dyneema, the world's strongest fiber. It has a lot of small fibers bonded together to deliver the best HIGH PERFORMANCE LINE ever developed! It's smaller diameter per pound test, compared to mono, allows for the angler to use a more powerful presentation without giving up the features and benefits of small line. It is not a replacement for mono in all-fishing situations.

FireLine delivers longer and more controllable casts than mono or braids of the same pound test. Since it has very low sustained memory it comes off your reel faster and with less friction giving better casting distance. The smaller diameter is not affected by the wind as much thus giving the angler better control of the lure and improving its accuracy.

The small diameter of FireLine gives lures better diving depth and also improves the actions of most lures. For live bait it makes for a more natural presentation. The added sensitivity allows the angler to feel the softest pick-up.

As your experience with FireLine increases, and you understand the compromise between stretch and sensitivity you will be able to fish FireLine in more and more situations. Think of FireLine as an ultra high performance sports car and you will understand why high performance is a product of compromises; the sports car goes fast, corners hard, but can't carry six people and the groceries, so you have compromised. FireLine is a product for ultra high performance fishing. It offers the ultimate in long casting distances, sensitivity and thin diameter, but doesn't provide the shock resistance that a monofilament does. The low stretch of FireLine means solid hook sets at any distance. You don't have to rear back and "cross their eyes." As they say down south, "just a solid pull will drive the hook home!"

Reels: CASTING: The best FireLine for casting is the 14 lb. Test and up. Even with 14lb. or larger the small diameter should be taken into consideration when adjusting the reel and choosing a lure. A good way to start out with FireLine is to increase your spool tension or magnet control, this will slow down the line coming off the reel. You will find that FireLine comes off faster and smoother than mono or braids and will deliver increased distance even with more spool tension. If the spool is too loose you will have some over runs that can snap lures off very quickly in the casting motion. It is not necessary to cast harder to get more distance. In fact, a smooth casting motion will deliver the best distance.

SPINNING REELS: All pound tests of FireLine work well on spinning reels; with 6,10 and 14 being the best. The line lays on the reels very well yet comes off quickly to give added distance.

SPIN-CAST REELS (CLOSED FACE REELS): FireLine WILL NOT WORK well on spin-cast reels.

Attaching FireLine to your reel: Since FireLine has almost no stretch it must be tied as well as taped to a reel arbor to prevent slippage. The Berkley tape tab on the end of your FireLine fits this need very well. Simply tie FireLine onto the arbor of your reel and place the tape tab over it. Another way would be to use a mono backing since FireLine's small diameter makes it hard to fill most reels with a 125 yard spool. You may want to use a blood knot or a nail knot to attach the FireLine to monofilament.

Knots to use: FireLine works with regular fishing knots. The best and recommended knot is the Palomar, which delivers 100% of rated strength when used with FireLine. Knots that rely on wraps for strength, such as the Trilene knot, need to have at least six wraps to avoid slippage and leave ½ to ¾ inch tag end.

Rod recommendation: Since FireLine has low stretch you can use a softer action rod that is easier and more fun to cast and use. You no longer need a real heavy rod to deliver the power to your hands. The power is in the line! Rods with more flex will fight the fish more effectively and wear them down. When the fish gets close to the boat it is important to have your drag adjusted to allow for big fish to take the line.

What to Expect: As you use FireLine the color will fade to a smoke gray, this is normal. Micro Dyneema does not absorb dye; you can use a permanent black magic marker to color the line (make sure to let it dry!)

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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

and an article from Basspro:

"A more recent innovation is fused line, made by fusing, rather than braiding, the gel-spun fibers. This process produces what appears to be a single-strand line that is also ultrathin, superstrong, and very sensitive. These lines are larger in diameter and offer a bit less strength than original braids, but they are somewhat easier to cast and tie, and generally more affordable"


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## wolfy (Apr 27, 2007)

LMAO!!!


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## Raumati (May 22, 2006)

Oh dear.


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Looks like this ones going no where fast .... time to lock it up i reckon !!!!!


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## Latitude (Nov 17, 2007)

> what do you bet somebody immediately disputes it because they 'know'


This mindset is why Iraq got invaded, you know. :?

I was going to leave it at that, but then I thought that really won't be enough for some. Point was that you can believe what you read / you're told, as some of you are, or you can find out for yourself - and maybe I'm the only one here who has. The size I proved to be a braid was 30lb. It doesn't make any difference, I didn't give a stuff whether it's a braid or not, the experiment was to reflect on how people cling to what they believe, denying reality. But you get that.


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## wolfy (Apr 27, 2007)

Did I say what an enormous pleasure it was to have someone so knowledgeable amongst us, to point out our errors, teach us new things, and draw such dramatic conclusions as to jump from being wrong about braid as to why Iraq was invaded.

How blessed we are!

Now we can ignore science, and discard the very manufacturers own claims and definitions, for the mighty has decreed not only why the US is at war, but that He Himself has decreed that 30lb Fireline is in fact a braid. The people who make it are wrong. We are wrong, but then as he says, we are all denying reality. To cling to the facts is wrong to, even when they are right.

Funny how sometimes the rest of the world can be wrong, but you are right. You get that too.


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Whadya reckon guys - can we call this one 'done'?

Red.


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## Raumati (May 22, 2006)

Yep stick a fork in him.It's starting to look like my ex wife has started posting here, I call her Mrs Wright......... firstname was Always.


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Doesnt seem very productive - Red ????? Kind of dying a slow painfull bickering death....


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Done.


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