# Designing the ultimate offshore fishing kayak



## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

No rudder just a Retractable skeg.

A large cut out on the side of the footwell, for quicker drainage when doing surf launches. If you had a retractable skeg you wouldn't have to worry about off setting the rudder cables.

Off setting the rear hatch so its on the right side soo's its easier to get at.

A nice comfy 2" cushion insert in the seat so I dont get a sore arse after a few hours.

Apart from that I like the Kingy the way it is and probably use to the rudder by now any how.


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## carnster (May 27, 2008)

Must have front rod riggers and plenty of mojo within. Good strong carry handles.


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## SharkNett (Feb 20, 2006)

Self draining seat


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

I'm still going to start with paddling efficiency. :twisted:

Compared to most glass fishing SOTs we need to "skinny up" forward of the cockpit. For stability this means widest point just behind the paddler. Hard chines and flatish bottom to this section for stability. Forward and aft of this shape up for a refined sharp entry and clear tail lines.

I like the seat raised (doesn't have to be much, but not on the floor), with a comfortable hump so you can steer down into the foot pegs. Cut-aways at the feet to help tighten the catch. Seat raised means more design effort is needed for stability. An alternative would be a seat design down low, but with inserts that allow it to be raised when you fit out for an individual.

Another thing is the way that many fishing SOTs are designed for big blokes. Can we see this one designed in a _lite_ version? And if you insist a second version that we can call _big bones_.

There should be some effort to keep the gunnels a bit lower, for ease of re-entry, fish handling etc. in the cockpit I'd like reasonably flat hump. This gives more space for shifting around, mucking about with tackle, fish etc. this ends up meaning it'll take more water when swamped so definite self draining rqd. I love the new Epic bailers which can be opened with your feet to keep them out of the road and are amazingly efficient.

I like AWTY's thought on skeg v rudder. The skeg does take up a bit of space/volume though. Perhaps a skeg option? It would force yakkers to learn a bit more about edging and paddle strokes.

Weight: keeping this down probably prohibits the Stealth system of a third moulding for the rod chute/ fish hatch. So some effort is required in thinking out separation into water tight compartments.


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

Retractable skeg means also, that you dont have to worry about running over your line and getting tangled around the rudder. I dont think it would take up any valuable space cause at the moment the space is just for floatation. (another very important safety precaution every kayak should have).

The seat in my Kingy is notably higher than any of the Stealths I've paddled, which makes it much better for paddling and bracing and stuff. It also self drains into the foot wells which have venturer drains. Unfortunately they dont drain fast enough in surf launches, which slows it down. The Stealth seat and seating position is much more comfortable. There is always a trade off.

62cm is wide enough.

Have you got a link to the Epic balers Dru? 
I was going to use a 50mm boat bailer with a rubber flap to stop the water coming back in at one stage. Was just going to drill it through the side, just above the water line.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

http://www.epickayaks.com/article/article/epic-bailer

Not sure they are available other than as repairs to an Epic ski. They are amazingly efficient at removing water but can be locked closed depending on the conditions (eg flat water). Out of interest a mate who races a Stellar ski has done a DIY on his baler. He use the non-return valve from a snorkel (snorkelling mouthpiece), re-shaped it to fit the baler. So it's now a one way, let's water out, but not in.

Personally I think 62 cm is too wide, stability should come from the design, not just by making it fat. BUT if it's wide behind the cockpit and tight at the catch, I don't really care how wide it is at the widest point. Needs to be less than 50cm at the catch though. 48cm even better.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

CAV said:


> dru said:
> 
> 
> > Personally I think 62 cm is too wide, stability should come from the design, not just by making it fat. BUT if it's wide behind the cockpit and tight at the catch, I don't really care how wide it is at the widest point. Needs to be less than 50cm at the catch though. 48cm even better.
> ...


The topic is "designing the *ultimate* offshore fishing kayak. If we were looking at designing a beginner craft my approach would be different. There is something behind NOT designing a Formula 1 car, when the right vehicle for the brief is an off road 4WD. But I'm not talking a racing kayak here. For me, the ultimate must start with paddling efficiency.

I think you'd be surprised at how stable an Epic V6 and V8 are. The stability comes from the hull design, not the ugly brute force of width. As I mentioned, flatish bottom in the critical area under the paddler, width behind, not in front, get some volume into the corners of the yak, hard chine is perfect. With your stability created then look to tighten up the nose.

This also creates a naturally fish-form shape which lends to nice behaviour in bumpy windy conditions.


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

How would it effect the weight if it was made using vacuum forming like the barracuda ?
It would make it more hardy around rocks and then could you make the rod tube and fish box thinner ?

Agree with the width for skinny blokes, I lose stability because of too much space at my sides.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

I don't care. Honestly. Whatever this ultimate fishing machine does.

There is a long slog in the morning as we push out into the fish. You can have this any way you think works. And I'm in. But here is something that I also want. As the afternoon breeze picks up I want to be able to play in the wind waves on the trip home. So let's strike a ALL my thinking on how this fishing craft will work.

As long as you give me this on the way home.

http://vimeo.com/channels/expeditionkayaks/84944337


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## gbc (Feb 16, 2012)

If you can combine going downhill with going down we shall be getting close to kayakking nirvana?....

http://www.paddlinghq.com/weird/4768-ja ... ested.html

I think the poll for naming suggestions closed before it even got opened.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

Brad, I am "between jobs" at the moment. I think this would be too hard for them though.

FWIW, you and I are on very very similar trajectories. The only real difference is how much to skinny up the nose. I too think the separate moulding has to go. There will be a risk of swamping, so I suspect we might need to install an auto-bailer ala' sea kayaks.

Note also, when I test exit and re-enter on the Profisha with fish hatch open, it very much self empties when you roll it back up. This comes from the buoyancy and from the design of the deck around the fish hatch opening. Great design, or great luck! Or maybe a natural evolution through design where Stealth continue to push the boundaries.

Agree with the low windage, but caution going to far. Remember the GC to Brissie trek? You dubbed my Scandinavian design low windage Zegal the "Collins Class" of the trek. Catch runners in a submersible is amusing but unnecessary!

Worth having a look at the Epics, V10s shows low windage (and hull form for stability at the cockpit) the best I think. Unlike most racing skis which try to be cylindrical in hull shape, Epic go wider and shallower. Oval shape. Keeps windage down, and makes a narrow gunnel which is great for re-mount. Not stable in fishing terms, but is revolutionising ski design. We need wider again, fill in the corners of the oval, back to this shape I keep discussing... Under the cockpit flatish with hard chines, shape from there to the nose and tail. Fatter behind the cockpit thin up the catch. There may be other ways to do this (eg lower the seat) but everything has an effect somewhere else.

A sea behaviour that naturally turns down wind is NOT good. Note that my Profisha does this. I don't think a tall nose on it's own contributes to this sea behaviour. Look at the yak front on. Look at how much wind is hitting the nose compared to hitting the Arse. It's the wind pushing the arse that turns the yak into the wind (upwind). The wind hitting the nose is what turns the yak down wind.

So a _fish form_ shape (Profisha is not far from it) - turns downwind. _Swede form_ shape - turns upwind. Fish form isn't necessarily worse btw, but most of us prefer a yak that steadies into the wind.

You don't want the upwind tendency to be overdone though, sooner or later we have to be able to turn around.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

keza said:


> How would it effect the weight if it was made using vacuum forming like the barracuda ?
> It would make it more hardy around rocks and then could you make the rod tube and fish box thinner ?
> 
> Agree with the width for skinny blokes, I lose stability because of too much space at my sides.


Kerry, vacuum forming is a wonderful technique and I love the finish. I suspect the moulds may be expensive though and I doubt you can produce without heat. Is that right? Manufacture would be involved. Great if you had the manufacturer on board, but probably not practical for building in the man-cave.


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## BIGKEV (Aug 18, 2007)

Over the last few years I have found myself looking for fishing locations that don't require huge amounts of paddling to reach, such as Double Island Point, but this comes at a trade off when you have to traverse through a nasty surf break at times. So, in my ultimate offshore fishing kayak I would find myself looking towards a craft with superior surf ability over a craft displaying superior speed. Also not really worried about the argument of being able to troll all day with reduced fatigue from a faster boat either as much of what I have been doing is slow trolling well rigged baits at depth which is a very stop start process working the entire water column.

Having secure storage for rods and gear is an important factor in my opinion for the type of fishing that has been taking my fancy too. The fact that the Stealths maintain a separate rod chute with dedicated buoyancy within the hull provides some extra piece of mind, not because I am miles offshore, but because I give the boat such a hard time going in and out through the surf that if it does get damaged and have some water ingress, then at least this buoyancy foam provides me some extra security until I can get back to shore again.

Just my 2 cents worth. This is an interesting thread, because so many people have so many different expectations in regards to what they want from their craft.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

BIGKEV said:


> Over the last few years I have found myself looking for fishing locations that don't require huge amounts of paddling to reach, such as Double Island Point, but this comes at a trade off when you have to traverse through a nasty surf break at times. So, in my ultimate offshore fishing kayak I would find myself looking towards a craft with superior surf ability over a craft displaying superior speed. Also not really worried about the argument of being able to troll all day with reduced fatigue from a faster boat either as much of what I have been doing is slow trolling well rigged baits at depth which is a very stop start process working the entire water column.
> 
> Having secure storage for rods and gear is an important factor in my opinion for the type of fishing that has been taking my fancy too. The fact that the Stealths maintain a separate rod chute with dedicated buoyancy within the hull provides some extra piece of mind, not because I am miles offshore, but because I give the boat such a hard time going in and out through the surf that if it does get damaged and have some water ingress, then at least this buoyancy foam provides me some extra security until I can get back to shore again.
> 
> Just my 2 cents worth. This is an interesting thread, because so many people have so many different expectations in regards to what they want from their craft.


I get this completely. Possibly though the requirement is met by the Stealth range already? It is exactly the brief they are designed for, South African surf without really needing long distances to the fishing ground.


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## scater (Nov 24, 2007)

It's funny then Kev that you have an Evo. Sounds like it's one of the least suited boats in the stealth range for your needs. You seem to be describing the supalite range.


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## BIGKEV (Aug 18, 2007)

Sadly, as with cars, I need a yak that I can fit. My Evo was manufactured with extended leg wells to suit my leg length as I felt very un-natural sitting in the standard cockpit and needed a ridiculously high paddle stroke to clear my knees making me very tired very fast. The BFS was the only other option at the time (pre profisha days). Have since paddled a profisha and was not sold on it personally, others rave about them, but it did not really impress me.

Some may find it surprising, but I actually rate the evo in the surf and will go out of my way to get a wave rather than many others who spend a lot of time trying to avoid them. I come in right way up more often than not and have on more than the odd occasion stripped it down and just taken it to play in the waves, I may not be the best yak surfer around, but I'm willing to give it a shot and certainly enjoy doing it.

Kev


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## scater (Nov 24, 2007)

You don't need to tell me Kev, I've seen it with my own eyes. You're a far better surfer on the evo than I am on the pro fisha.


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## jbonez (Jul 9, 2013)

I think my stealth drifts so much harder than the prowler did, but I guess thats the sacrifice of sitting more out of the water and being able to paddle easier, thats my main gripe which isnt a big one.

If I had a clean skin evo I would put the rear rod holders one inch further back, being a big dude I find them too close to my body and after say 20 trips I still find the hole with my pinky some mornings oh yeah.

The other morning with a following swell and a light wind behind me I was cranking the paddle and had her reading 14km/h over a 3-4 short bursts, itl get up and go in the right conditions.


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## gbc (Feb 16, 2012)

....


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