# New NSW PFD rules effect Kayaks & Canoes



## nicktoozoff

Hi All,

Have just seen the new rules regarding PFD's, and we will be affected. Any Canoeist or Kayaker on enclosed waters further than 100m from shore will be required to wear a PFD. Any Kayker paddleing inshore (open) waters will also be required to wear a PFD. You can get more info from www.maritime.nsw.gov.au.

These new regs will come into play from the 1st November 2010.

Cheers Nick.


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## Squidder

Nice work Nick. I just had a quick look though the doc, personally I don't think there's anything there that should inconcvenience anyone. IMO we should all be wearing a PFD of some type whenever we're yak fishing.


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## mehi

Squidder said:


> IMO we should all be wearing a PFD of some type whenever we're yak fishing.


 x2


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## solatree

Squidder said:


> IMO we should all be wearing a PFD of some type whenever we're yak fishing.


Those are the rules in SA ! 8)


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## nicktoozoff

If I'm paddling in areas that are frequented by jetskis or stink boats then, as a matter of course I wear my PFD (I dont trust anyone in a stink boat!). If however, I am in an area that see's no boat traffic then I dont wear it. To clarify this, all my paddling is done in my local estuaries, lakes or bass streams and rivers on the south coast. The lower Clyde, Tuross or Moruya rivers all see me wearing my PFD as is the case with the local lakes. The upper (fresh reaches) of the rivers are PFD free for me.

It really just comes down to common sense (the most uncommon of senses), which is why Maritime have changed the rules!

Cheers Nick.


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## Ozzybass

I'm not happy! I've been yak fishing for 14yrs, mainly estuary & rivers and have never owned a PFD until I had to for an event last December. Haven't used it since either. I'm sure I'll cop flak, but it depends on where you fish surely? What do the regs say about FW rivers & streams?


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## Ozzybass

kraley said:


> I look upon PFD denialists the same way I view people who rail against seat belts and motorcycle helmets -
> A strident but ultimately ridiculous bunch of misguided libertarians.............


WTF??!   Who is being strident?! Have I said those that use them are "useless, gay bunch of woosy wimps" ??! I just said I haven't used one! As to why - I don't fish offshore and hate lakes/dams and I fish out of an Australis Bass SIK, a fat, slow, almost untippable craft. When I'm doing a bit of low level white water in pursuit of river fish, weaving in & out of overhangs & swiping tree branches, a PFD may even be hazardous. If I ever became really cool & got a Hobie and went offshore, I'd absolutely wear a PFD. I think you owe me an apology!


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## southcoastmatty

I wear a pfd in open water but in my estuary [where I can stand up] I go without. I am not a risk taker.
scm


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## simond11

> I think you owe me an apology!


Good luck! :lol:


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## nicktoozoff

OzzyBass,

I come from a whitewater background and would never consider paddeling any whitewater (no matter how mild) without out. White water by it's nature involves rocks and aerated water. If you have ever tried to stay head above water in a section of heavily aerated water, then you will know that even with a PFD it is a hard task (more air means less water = less floatation). Dont get me wrong, I am in no way slinging s*#t at you mate, we seem to like to fish the same type of waters (fresh bass waters), and understand where you are coming from, and I respect your right not to wear one.

Kraley, I also respect your veiws on the subject. I dont think that turning what was an update about the new reg's, into a personal attack on those who choose to not to wear one was needed. Can't we all just respect each others right to do as we please and just get along. We are all here for the same reason.

Just my 2 cents.

Nick.


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## john316

occy said:


> As Krayley says they are probably the same people who will never be convinced that wearing a seat belt or helmet is a good idea.


weird statement... very much a guess in the dark as I'll wager there is no way to prove it either way...

I'm a big bad biker (well I'm big and ride a bike) and always wear a helmet

Never get in a car without putting on the seat belt

always wear a pfd off shore

rarely wear one in the rivers and enclosed waterways I paddle with the child bride - and I don't need to make any excuses for that choice, its just the way I have chosen to do it until now when I will HAVE to because some little man in a cubicle somewhere says so...

so I will

so little time to play

why so much aggression... or in those immortal words "why must people be so unkind"... sheesh

I'm outa here for the day before the pollies tell me I *must* wear a PFD but I *musn't* fish

john


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## solatree

I too came from a white water background....and would never not wear one. Its habitual. And now an integral part of my kayak set up. I use my PFD pockets for all sorts of things that I would otherwise have to store or put some where in the kayak.


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## Ozzybass

If my fairly innocuous comment, about myself, can generate attack by people (Kraley & Occy) who I had always admired on this forum, I have to ask "why bother?". If what I said is considered "libertarian", should their attitude be considered "fascist" ??! I certainly think so now. I hope I never see them complain about their freedoms to fish being attacked by other people who consider our preferred recreation "barbaric" & should be banned; nor any complaint about "The Nanny State" as I'm sure they would be considered not only "libertarian", but also "evil" & even "red neck".

For the record, I repeat, I would be the first to don a PFD if I used a SOT in open water. And yes Kraley, I fish solo quite often. To the other WW comentators, I agree in principle, but again I'm talking up to Grade 2 only and its my choice. Oh! Sorry, that sounds a bit libertarian. Funny - in the context of Kraley's comment, that word is full of negative connotations. I know, I know its just as stupid for me to counter that with "I thought we lived in a free country" as we don't.


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## keza

I hate all laws that tell us what to do when an intelligent person can asses the ricks and decide for them selves.
Unfortunately there is a large portion of the population that are actually pretty thick and need to be told what to do. That combined with us becoming more litigious, means the government have to cover their arses.
Case in point is the guy that dived on to a sand bar at Bondi and broke his neck. He sued the local council for millions. There are now signs up advising people not to dive onto sand bars :shock:

I don't really think the government gives a toss about someone drowning or injuring themselves, they just don't want to be held responsible.
The real guts of the problem is that there is no accident compensation in this country. If you break you neck, you are pretty much on you own unless you have personal insurance.
In say NZ, you are look after by the state. This includes all the stuff like modifying your house and trying to rehabilitate you. 
So the only way to be looked after is to sue.
The way to prevent being sued is to make it illegal.

_spoken by Keza, who knows nothing about what he is talking about and didn't have the time to research and clarify his information.
All information supplied is based on a hunch and a gut feeling. Sydney._


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## kayaksportsmark

I wonder when the sunny state of Queensland will bring in compulsory pfds for kayakers.


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## fongss

^ i take one with me now but i use it as a seat ( hey it works!!!) , i don't have a issue with wearing one BUT can anyone reccomend a good one? ( the one i use as a seat is a typical big boat one) i need one more specialised for paddling in !

ohhh, and just stir the pot-

i also take my boat flares with me off shore

so there...i am safety sam :lol:


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## andybear

No real comment from me..

I just love that picture of Mussolini impersonating Alexi Sayle

Cheers all Andybear


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## keza

andybear said:


> No real comment from me..
> 
> I just love that picture of Mussolini impersonating Alexi Sayle
> 
> Cheers all Andybear


The picture has been cropped just above his tropical fish :lol:


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## WayneD

I don't wear one and only own one for wearing in competitions that necessitate me to wear it.

I go offshore, in dams and down creeks without it. I feel safe in my kayak just like I do in my friends boat, where I don't have to wear it. I don't feel the need to wear it and until the law here in QLD changes I probably won't.

Never have I felt unsafe in my kayak so I don't see the necessity for it. If the conditions are unsafe then I don't go out, simple as that.

I only read this post because I am looking at fishing the northern NSW bass streams a lot this year and thought this might mean that I have to wear it, which I would if it's the law, but I'm glad I don't have to.


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## Davey G

I no longer try to get involved in lifejacket debates on forums, but personally i dont give a stuff what anyone else does, if you want to go kayaking with or without a pfd then good for you. as keza said above the rules are there mainly to cover the governments ass, not to necessarily save lives. For me i usually wear one while offshore but not always when inshore/estuary.

heres something to think about - I've been surfing for over 30 years and have always done so in either board shorts/rash top or wetsuit. No helmet, no pfd, no flares, no locating beacons, nothing else. Ive learnt that in order to surf i need a reasonable amount of fitness, awareness and water skills otherwise I'll probably drown or get my head smashed by a flying piece of fibreglass.

There are no rules stopping me from 'risking my life' as a surfer and I stand by my opinion that surfing is a far more risky sport than kayak fishing. Theres thousands of surfers in the water every day, risking shark attack, drowing and more and yet theres no requirement for anyone to be licenced, wear safety equipment or have a buddy on hand.

So to those who trot out the 'if you don't wear a pfd you're an idiot' line, I have to respectfully disagree. Sure its a great piece of safety equipment if and when you ever need it, but 99.9% of the time, you simply don't.


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## garyp

I used to get around the Harbour and out to Long Reef all the time without a Pfd.

I look back at those days and think I was a right idiot. Would never leave shore without one now.

For those who think it's safe if you can stand, what if your legs aren't working? I.e. Cramp or you get knocked out by a leaping Platypus? Just saying

I believe it is said that you can drown in a teaspoon of water (or whiskey) whatever your head happens to fall in...


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## spottymac

It was was on the ABC radio fishing show this morning that QLD is coming into line with the other States on PFD 
I use a PFD TYPE 2 for off shore fishing which works well for the surf launches, it is not to restrict-if I have to climb back on the kayak in the surf,
So it looks like I will have to buy a Type 1 to comply with the the new rules with the flotation around the neck :twisted: 
What about the surf sky guys don't they have to wear one,


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## solatree

spottymac said:


> QLD is coming into line with the other States on PFD





spottymac said:


> So it looks like I will have to buy a Type 1 to comply with the the new rules


Certainly not the rule in SA or Victoria - PFD types 1, 2 or 3 are OK


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## Ranger

keza said:


> Case in point is the guy that dived on to a sand bar at Bondi and broke his neck. He sued the local council for millions. There are now signs up advising people not to dive onto sand bars :shock:


Signs are important.............just like PFD's!


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## Barrabundy

Well, off on a tangent, in QLD any child under the age of 12 must wear a PFD (not sure on what specs) while a in a boat which is underway. Drift fishing is also classified as underway.

This morning the whole family went out in our little tinny and the 3 kids had their various PFD's on Type 1 & 2. Our last stop was on the bank almost just across the river from the boat ramp (few hundred metres) so I told the kids not to worry about donning PFD's. The Mrs cracked (what if you hit a snag etc etc) so we waited till everyone had their gear on and then headed back

Turned up at the boat ramp and here come a couple of fisheries people to greet us. Thankfully the kids were all jumping out with their PFDs and these guys were suitably impressed.....NO-ONE puts PFDs on their kids up here....not sure why, but it's easy money for the QLD govt. We all jumped in the ute and drove off.......sans booster seats :shock:

I can honestly say that kayaking has raised my awareness of safety on the water.


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## HiRAEdd

I will admit, if I see a kayaker out paddling without a PFD, I shake my head. It's just way too easy for something to go wrong on the water. They're far from uncomfortable, they don't get in the way and in many cases, they add much needed comfort as you have something to lean back on. On the odd occasion that I've taken mine off, I feel naked and don't last very long before I feel I have to put it back on. To those of you who don't wear one, I wish you all the luck in the world because IMHO, you're tempting fate when you really don't need to.


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