# Newbie offshore question



## newbiekayak (Mar 25, 2011)

Hey guys I just starting kayak fishing recently and got a second hand cobra pro fisherman. I really want to go offshore sure and the target species I would like to catch are kingfish tuna and maybe one day marlin. My question to the offshore kayakers when did you know that your ready to go offshore??


----------



## goanywhere (Feb 22, 2011)

You can do safety courses in some areas. To be honest I would never go out alone targeting big game species in a kayak. Yes, we have all seen the YouTube videos of people who do, but in my opinion they are fooling with dynomite. These species can be difficult and dangerous to handle once you have got them to the surface. Kayakers can be killed or seriously injured trying to deal with big fish, even experienced charter fishermen warn against treating big game fish without respect. Best to have someone very experienced on hand to assist if you hook a monster. Just think of how you are going to paddle back towing a 50kg plus tuna, with potential currents and sharks to deal with. Even if you are going to catch and release, these fish can capsize a kayak with a flip of a tail, and once in the water they can and will attack. For instance, marlin are a very aggressive fish and have been known to kill fishermen knocked overboard.

Marlin can go over 1000lb, and you don't want to be 6" from one when it hits the surface at 60mph.

http://maisonbisson.com/blog/post/11441/blue-marlin-spears-fisherman/





Food for thought.


----------



## kodaz (Jan 1, 2011)

I'm guessing you're not really talking about the 50kg tuna and 1000lb marlin off the continental shelf, because the journey that far offshore would be ridiculous in a kayak. My guess is you are asking about the kind of kayak offshore fishing that gets posted regularly in the trip reports; i.e. less than 5km offshore chasing small schooling tuna, mackeral, kingies and the odd reef fish right? In such a case, though my experience is still relatively limited with about 7 excursions offshore under my belt, I would say you still need to be prepared for the worst. Bad weather and currents can really tire you out quickly and that can happen quickly. I wrote a report a few months ago describing being pulled about 8km offshore for 3 hours by a large yellowfin tuna. I was dehydrated and tired by the time it broke off and I had still had to paddle back home in the heat of day.

I would suggest a VHF radio as a minimum, a safety kit with some essential 1st aid things like pressure bandages, and after my experience I also purchased a GPS personal locator beacon as well. Don't let any of this put you off, offshore yak fishing is awesome fun and there is a fast growing troupe of kayaks who make regular trips to popular spots so depending on where you are you may never have to be out there alone, esp if the weather is good.

As regards to whether you are ready.. well how long is a piece of string? I had only had one paddle in my kayak down the brisbane river to get used to its stability before I took it offshore. It really comes down to your confidence in your fitness, ability and adaptability to a bad situation, as well as having the right equipment.


----------



## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

The main priority for keen, newby offshore yakkers should be to concentrate on stamina, strength and endurance first and deal with the fishing when they're physically equipped.

If your intended fishing grounds are 1km from shore, you should be able to paddle a minimum of 3km sustained at the kayaks optimum cruising speed. If those fishing grounds are 2km from the launch site, you should be able to paddle non-stop for 6km sustained. A sustained paddle leaves rest gaps so short that your kayak still glides in the time it takes you to momentarily stop paddling and have a quick sip of water. Each kayak has its own optimum cruising speed when coupled with the weight of the user, fitness and gear onboard.

As an example, yesterday I tested a fully specced Ocean Kayak Prowler Ultra and maintained 6.7km/h sustained over 3km. To put this into perspective, I weigh 70kg, the rigged kayak with rear pod weighed 38kg plus my 10kg of fishing gear making a total payload of 118kg. For the test I was able to propel that yak through the water without stopping at an average cruise speed of 6.7km/h. At the same time, the 3km of paddle distance that I covered was well within my physical capability for that particular hullshape and payload.


----------



## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

It's something of a question of context. But as a for example, Long Reef is a common spot in Sydney for targeting kings, not a bad spot to have a think. So what would I want ticked off before I started at Longie? Shooting from the hip:
1/ exit/re-entry 100%.
2/ wouldn't bother with surf technique too much, but choose the weather.
3/ probably expect to paddle up to 15 k in a big fish. So I'd want to know I could manage 25k in still water.
4/ make sure my fish landing technique was pretty resolved with something like frogs. This doesnt answer the question but it's a start.
5/ probably make sure I was comfortable in the harbour first.
6/ get a little experience in "still" water with say 10kn+ winds

It's not really a big list, but probably add going out with someone who knows to start with. For me it would be a combination of my confidence in fitness and safety. The safety list is much bigger by the way.

The famous BBW in Noosa (chasing mckeral and tuna among others) advised me as a novice to spend 6 weeks working the river first, sorting out fitness and fish handling. I took 6 months. otoh one of the guys on the GC to Brissie trip had never been on a yak before and it was a 75k paddle (he had been a professional sportsman though).

Fitness is the easy bit. Safety is harder to put a schedule on. Take your time with it ;-)


----------



## goanywhere (Feb 22, 2011)

Sorry if I sounded a bit 'over the top' with my earlier post. Just wanted to put things in perspective. Better to be safe than sorry when dealing with water and living creatures. Some of the earlier posts put things well.

I would certainly get a good number of inshore fishing trips under my belt before venturing more than 1km off shore. Plan your trip well and follow standard safety practice (carry food and water, inform someone of where you are going and when you expect to be back, carry first-aid kit and a waterproof radio etc.) and also plan not only for what you will be targeting but how you are going to deal with a bigger than expected fish, (it happens!)

I follow a rule of thumb that I will try to get knowledgeable about one new fish species a year. If I take awhile to learn to catch the one I am learning about, I can always fall back on fishing for ones I have 'mastered' (if you can ever master fishing), if things are a bit lean. At least that way your chances of catching fish increase every year! This year I am trying to learn how to catch snapper. So far not much luck (in fact none so far!) but that's ok, I am still happy because I have caught at least something worthwhile every time I have gone out this year.

Forums like this one are excellent for developing a network of friends to go out fishing with, and starting by asking lots of questions is a great way to learn. I have been fishing my whole life but I have learned more in a quicker time by joining forums like this one than I ever did before.

Cheers.


----------



## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

goanywhere said:


> Sorry if I sounded a bit 'over the top' with my earlier post.


It's the Marlin thing that leads to a "whoah" response, nothing over the top with that. But just to get out in the blue... it's reasonably accessible I think.


----------



## paulthetaffy (Jan 27, 2010)

I only started kayak fishing 18 months ago but the plan from the outset was to fish longy (as I had just purchased an apartment off plan 2 minutes away). To prepare for that I've put in two seasons and around 40-50 trips chasing kingies around the relative shelter of the harbour, slowly building up to it with trips to "easier" open water spots such as malabar. I finally made it out to longy a couple of weeks ago. I used the 18 months not only to build up my fitness but also to learn to be comfortable in the water, learn how to deal with fish of all sized and species, and tweak my setup for safety and comfort. I STILL wouldn't dream of going out there by myself though.

As a side note, I have a hobie which is a dangerous thing. It's far too easy to travel 10+ k's on a hobie and not get tired. The trap though is that if you find yourself 5k's from your launch and your pedals break, do you have the fitness / technique to paddle 5k's back, especially if conditions deteriorate? I know I've fallen into the trap, which is why learning to paddle properly and build up my paddle technique/strength is the thing I'm going to concentrate on this winter.


----------



## newbiekayak (Mar 25, 2011)

@ goanywhere thanks for the warn, i probably wont go that far offshore but would like to go enough offshore so that i am able to chase yellow fin

@kodaz thanks for the safety warning, i will definately buy a beacon before going offshore.

@Spool1 you always give really good advice. I will try to test my phsyical strength. By the way, when you said you need to paddle a minium 3km for each 1km offshore, is the 3km in rough or calm water? I am guessing calm water? a second thing, how do you know the optium speed of the yak? i recently got a yellow cobra profisherman. what is the optium speed for that?

@dru thanks for giving me a rough guide line, i will look into that.


----------



## newbiekayak (Mar 25, 2011)

Hey guys i would really love to join if there is a group of kayakers in sydney that goes offshore regularly or if somehow we can form a regulary offshore kayak group in akff to go offshore regularly on the weekend.


----------



## jokinna (Mar 2, 2010)

i went outside after 6trips in the lake.

the main thing i think is important is keeping your fitness up and keeping balance.

familiarize yourself with your yak and get use to moving around on it.

and practise at least once, flipping your capsized yak back over. i found out the hard way and its a bit scary bobbing around in 20m of water with 4ft swell scrambling to right your yak back up and hoping you havent lost too much gear.

pfd is a must. tether everything. but most important, fitness and balance. once you get those two down pat then you can think about fishing as well.

and dont forget the ginger :mrgreen:

cheers 
jokinna


----------



## goanywhere (Feb 22, 2011)

Considering this thread, I think that some detailed information on kayak safety is essential on this forum. Newbies like newbiekayak are in real need of some easy to obtain safety information and guidelines to learning to kayak.

As someone who has been kayaking for only a couple of years, I know already from experience that ambition can easily outstrip ability, which is dangerous on land but suicidal on the water. With thousands of newbie kyakers hitting the water every year it will not be long that regulations and restrictions start to emerge if too many novices get into trouble trying to push the (very flimsy) envelope too early.

It took me over a year to learn how to paddle efficiently and to get the greatest result from the least effort, and I'm still learning little techniques. Just watching someone who is starting out kayaking is proof that paddling a kayak might be easy to do but hard to master.

Everyone wants to know how to catch that monster fish. Very few want to know how to stay alive and well in a kayak for years of safe enjoyment. For me, no fishing trip is worth my life, and safety is always my first consideration. I came too close to disaster for comfort not too long ago, and it reminded me that even with years of experience things can get very ugly very quickly if you don't treat safety as your prime consideration. You have to consider the water as your arch enemy, and fishing as a dangerous activity if you are in a boat in water too deep to touch bottom, fullstop. Adopting that attitude will go a long way to making sure that your hobby stays enjoyable for a (hopefully long) lifetime.


----------



## john316 (Jan 15, 2009)

When I started kayaking it was a a couple and there was no fishing involved. We would regularly paddle in excess of 20 Km in a paddle in our sit-in touring style yaks until the penny dropped and I began the process of learning to fish from the kayak. My first "fishing" kayak was a Hobie Adventure Island and after a few runs on the river to get used to it I took the plunge and headed out of the river mouth and in the vague direction of New Zealand. While I am not suggesting that this was a good or sensible approach, it does remind me a little of the siscovery of flight etc where a few daring folk tried somthing that was new to them and had no-one to teach them. Shortly after that time I discovered the AKKF and a wealth of knowledge, including tips on safety, and have been an avid reader and part-time contributor.

Because of where I live, my age range and work hours I break a lot of the rules and travel alone most times I head outside. My wife, otherwise refered to as the child bride, is my usual kayaking/fishing companion will only fish on the rivers and lakes after being "buzzed" by a 30 odd foot flybridge cruiser who though that it was real funny to charge down a couple of kayaks off Bermagui, so for me it is a case of weigh up the risks and try to be careful when I am out there.

Having said that I do not travell as far now as I did in the beginning as I have had a couple of experiences that I really do not want to repeat. Meeting a humpback whale that came to have a look at me was one that I do not want to forget - ever. So sublime to have such a huge creature approach so silently and lie there beside me just watching. On the down side I have also discovered that you can capsize an Adventure Island and on a seperate occaision, that a big great white shark really is a very big fish.

I still get outside and I still go alone but it is amazing what fishing is available without having to travel ridiculous distances.

Today, you can't just get in a plane and try to fly without first being taught, nor can you legally drive without having had instruction etc. My advice to a new comer would be to try to find other people with similar goals and team up as often as possible and learn from their experience. Fishing outside is not without risk but weigh up the level of risk you are prepared to take and try very hard to avoid winning a Darwin Award.

Have fun on your yak

John


----------



## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

Years ago I came up with this simple formula based on a lot of loose comments made by a bunch of offshore yak fishers. Somewhere along the way the triple distance factor became the unofficial benchmark figure for coastal kayak fisho's. I know a few guys that based thier adventures on this formula with good results. Again across kayaks used for fishing, skilled paddlers seem to cruise somewhere around 6.5km/h to 9km/h (point to point) depending on thier yaks and payloads. That 6.5km/h speed covers a lot of newby skill levels and should be achievable at least for short periods to begin with.



> Energy reserve formula: First multiply your total point to point destination distance by three and multiply that figure by an average cruising speed of 6.5km/h, this formula should help you establish the amount of paddling minutes you should aim to have in your paddling reserve for the anticipated distance you will cover. Any extra paddling you do while fishing must also be added as a separate equation.
> 
> E.g. Reef = 2km one way or 4km return
> Multiply 4km x 3 = 12km
> ...


----------



## goanywhere (Feb 22, 2011)

This is one of the best sites I have come across for the novice paddler. It is geared for the sea kayak and sit-in kayak mainly (so the bits on getting in and out are not as applicable for the SOT kayaker, but still helpful), but it is very thorough and it's animated.

http://kayakpaddling.net/


----------



## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

If you have to ask the question are you ready you are probably not ready.
Start off going not very far from shore, practice getting in and out etc gaining confidence and learning your local currents and conditions. Ive stated before on this forum dont go out further than you are prepared to swim and do exercises like swimming with your kayak in open water with a tow rope to improve fitness and confidence.
Getting caught out a few kms from shore is no fun so be prepared, dress properly, have water and dont burden yourself with too much gear, build up slowly to going further and further from shore and you should be right, good luck.


----------



## billpatt (Apr 12, 2010)

My guidelines a very simple,
1 - Always wear your PFD
2 - Never go alone, unitl you are totally confident.
3 - Practise re-entries
4 - Invest in good safety gear, I believe that a Epirb is a very good investment.
5 - Buy some flippers and store them in the hull, a 2km plus swim will be a lot easier with these.

And finally always tell someone where you are going and when you will return, stick to this plan even if you leave the fish bitting, there is always next time.


----------

