# Suggestion re AKFF safety guidelines



## Baldy (Oct 1, 2007)

I reckon your onto something there Occy, a list of all the little things that can make a trip safer sounds good, then people can take on board the ones they choose and seem reasonable to them, which will be vastly different to different people.

Only suggestion is about using AKFF in the header, It was pointed out in one of those threads that any safety guidelines established by "AKFF" the forum would make those that run in liable should anything go wrong while following the said guidelines...ridiculous I know but that seems the general view on it.

If the "AKFF recommends" bit was something like "Experianced kayakers recommend" then it might keep the sharks in suits at bay?

Cheers
Baldy


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

No. As soon as you make a recommendation you open yourself to litigation should that recommendation prove inadequate. It is ok to list what safety equipment is available but not to recommend when it should be used. There is already a safety section in the wiki. You can add to this but I'm sure the mods will be careful to review whatever any of us does add so that they don't open any potential liability


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## FoolInjected (Feb 4, 2008)

[Flame Suit]
Gee, I'm sorry for bringing the legal stuff up in the last thread
Lets see if I can salvage this one.

This is a thread, not the making of the AKFF rules
If AKFF mods wish to make them part of the rules with fancy wording that is their prerogative

Lets not worry about fancy words and get on with the intent of the thread, a DISCUSSION about of list of items and precautions one should take before taking to the water.

It's not an easy topic to agree upon for many reasons such as requirements varying from state to state.
There is no need to go into details about items. 
For example a PFD vest is simply a PFD vest, not a type this or that, feature packed, stamped by the Queen, conforming to Zimbabwean Standards

That said a discussion is about putting forward your thoughts. 
Knives may come up, you may wish to debate folding verses sheathed or if it should be tethered to you or the yak, fine but the list remains "A Knife"

We need to keep it simple

So there we go a couple of simple "guidelines", let see if this can be a productive thread
[/Flame Suit]


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

Paul et al,

I can see what you're trying to do, but the reality is that in producing any list that is beyond the legislated requirements in each state and stating that it is recommended is opening the claimant to litigation. Listing what is available is fine. Making recommendations means taking on risk.

And you were right to point out those flaws in the the Trip warning. They are trip notices, not events, and the warning is that or a notice, not guidelines.

I'm going to harp on this because the whole point of the warning is to reduce risk of unwelcome litigation so lets make sure we don't go undoing it


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

But an expression like "prudent kayak fisho" is tantamount to recommendation! There is no way around it. Give it up. By all means tell people what you carry and how that meets your needs but don't hold up any list as being generally suitable. You can list all of the things available and discuss there uses and limitations but not provide any ranking of usefulness. The wiki is a good place for this.

For example, a handheld VHF radio is generally of more use to a kayaker inshore than an epirb. The radio will get immediate response in most areas whereas the response to an epirb can be expected to take an hour. But what if you recommended to carry a VHF radio in preference to an epirb and someone got into trouble close to some cliffs and couldn't contact one of the coast stations. In this situation a 406MHz epirb can still be picked up by a satellite and assistance provided eventually. Anyone who recommended to the yaker to carry a VHF rather than an epirb has opened themself to litigation.

Please forget the list


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