# Bait casting reels.



## Brock911 (Jan 21, 2013)

Hey guys, iv been wanting to buy a good quality bait caster for a while now but choosing one has been quite the task. I don't want to lash out a few hundred dollars for a dud! I trialled a shimano Calcutta 200B which I found to be an absolute pig of a reel to cast due to the line guide infront of the spool not moving with the line when casting. Overall hated it. After doing some research and talking to some people a diawa T3 was recommended, I'm open to all brands, anyone out there got any other suggestions??

Cheers Brock.


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## anselmo (Aug 26, 2008)

What are you fishing for Brock? And where? What line etc?

Have a look at tackletour.com for some US based bass centric reviews on reels and other goodies


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## shadowrunner (Jan 18, 2013)

baitcasters are a very hard reel to master for casting (i have the Shimano Caenan 100 Baitcaster 1overhead with a guide and one overhead without the guide) the 2 overheads are very rarely cast at all ( normally used to drop straight down or with live bait only) the small normal baitcaster style is used maybe once every now and then due to it being a pig to cast with anything less than 50KG sinkers and the worm gear needs replacing (pity too as the rod itself is a brilliant rod)

If you want something without the wormgear guide then you are after an overhead not a baitcaster and I recommend the Diawa seagate and sealine series or the


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## anselmo (Aug 26, 2008)

shadowrunner said:


> If you want something without the wormgear guide then you are after an overhead not a baitcaster and I recommend the Diawa seagate and sealine series or the


Some of the shimano baitcasters have wormgears that remain engaged during a cast. (Don't know about Daiwa etc as haven't used them for a long time)
The reason some don't is that the wormgear adds an amount of inertia to the cast process. Whilst this fortuitously aids in minimising backlashes, it also reduces effective casting distances.
It's a tradeoff on the engaged vs non-engaged front

The Calcutta is designed to be a casting reel, so if you're struggling, it may not be the reels fault.
what line and rod length and lure weight combo are you using?
You can't cast the same light weight lure on a baitcaster that you can on threadline reel.
Baitcasters come into their own on shorter distances with medium to large lures (think snag bashing for bass up to barra), also trolling

If you're breaming with small lure (jigs, crankbaits etc) a threadline may be a better choice - but as we don't know what your fishing expectations are yet ...


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## exp2000 (Jul 9, 2011)

The best casting reels have the _lightest spools _and must be matched to the weight of the lure being casted.

I have never been a great fan of the Calcutta because the have a heavy spool. Great quality, nice drag but not so versatile when it comes to casting lighter lures. I don't particularly like the static lineguide and find it does interfere with casting on larger model reels with wider spools but on smaller reels it is not an issue. If you are casting to snags in the creek, no worries - but if you are looking for distance casting not so good.

The Shimano Curado has modest line capacity but is pure joy to cast and handle. Loaded with light braid it Ideal for Barra and light game. The E series was the best quality and is definitely preferred over the current G series. I think this may be more the style of reel you are looking for but nevertheless it does have a static line guide.

One of my personal favourites is the old ABU 5500 - so easy to cast due to the light spool and they wont break the bank. Loaded with 20 lb braid and a carbontex drag upgrade these become a very versatile reel suitable for casting smaller lures yet able to handle a 20 lb tuna.

If you want to go up a knotch for casting - say 30 - 40 gram metal slices to larger quarry, the ABU 7000 or higher geared 7500 is a nice reel. If you can get an older model made in Sweden, many consider these superior quality and construction to the current productions made in China.

The Daiwa SLOSH series are a favourite amongst some angling fraternities having a superb drag, light spool and fast retrieve which make them a good choice in spinning for pelagics. But not suitable if you are using a rod with a trigger winch reel seat because the low vertical gearbox interferes with your grip.

FIY, here are some discusions from credible sources on the Daiwa T3:

http://www.tackletour.com/reviewdaiwat3reel.html

http://www.stripersonline.com/t/846603/daiwa-t3

I enjoy using overhead reels for the finesse and control they offer.
~


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## Barrabundy (Sep 29, 2008)

Bait asters have their drawbacks, like making long casts into the wind, but once you've got used to them, casting is almost second nature regardless of line guides or not. Most of the baitcasters I see have line guides and everyone using them seems to not have any trouble casting them.

One thing they do suck at is casting light lures with a full spool of line, the lure just isn't heavy enough to get that spool spinning quick enough to allow you lure to go to where you want it.


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## Penno (Dec 2, 2005)

G


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## imtheman (Aug 24, 2012)

daiwa low profile bait casters-simple


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## Bretto (May 23, 2010)

anselmo said:


> The Calcutta is designed to be a casting reel, so if you're struggling, it may not be the reels fault.


Pretty much this.

If you're using the right gear in the right environment, casting is simple. The rod can make a big difference depending on the weight you're casting too.

For brands - most popular brands have nice baitcasting models. The really cheap models of any of these brands are better used as paperweights.


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## scater (Nov 24, 2007)

Without knowing what the original poster wants to use the reel for, it's impossible to give detailed advice here but: the line guide disengages during the cast because otherwise the weight of the lure would not only have to move the spool during the cast but the wormgear and the line guide too. Provided the lineguide is fairly friction free, it is more efficient for it not to move. The T3 is a neat attempt to get around this percieved problem. Calcuttas are good casting reels but not designed for low-weight lures, with the possible exception of the old 50 sizes. No Shimano or Daiwa to my knowledge has a non-disengaging levelwind, yet many people still cast well with them. hhmmmm


Penno said:


> Hi Brock
> Have a look at the Shimano Calais DC,that will surprise you
> Penno


In more ways than one! 


shadowrunner said:


> baitcasters are a very hard reel to master for casting (i have the Shimano Caenan 100 Baitcaster)


The Caenan's not a particularly well engineered reel (fair enough at the price point) so tarring all baitcasters with a cheap brush is unfair. Casting reels, when used on an appropriate rod and with an appropriate lure weight are easily mastered.



exp2000 said:


> The best casting reels have the _lightest spools _and must be matched to the weight of the lure being casted.


A bit of an oversimplification there. Light spools have lower start-up inertia so the low weight of light lures will still be able to get them spinning, but the same factor means they will also slow down faster and restrict distance. The opposite is true for heavier spools. They will require more weight to get them spinning in the first place but will spin longer and allow more distance once moving. Once again it's about matching the right gear to the right application.

At the end of the day it sounds to me like brock911 has tried to use a good baitcaster without one or more of the following: good instruction, a heavy enough lure and an appropriately matched rod.


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## Barrabundy (Sep 29, 2008)

I'm no expert on the different types of baitcasters but can say that, once mastered, you'll be able to pick up any reel and fish with it. You'll find that, once you get used to it, you'll disregard all the fancy brakes and adjustments and just use your thumb instinctively while casting.

I almost gave up while trying to master the first one of the only 2 I've owned. It was a really cheap Shimano Callisto but, once I eventually mastered it, I wondered why I'd never bought one sooner. I've since replaced it with a slightly more expensive Quantam brand unit which didn't take too long to get used to. It's more about getting used to the balance and where to position your fingers/thumbs etc with the different reels. (in my opinion)


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## lightly (Oct 25, 2012)

i got a trinidad 20 obviously not for casting light lures, but i'm surprise how good it is with casting small lures for how big it is, you can't get the smaller size here but on ebay they got a size 10 trinidad which might be good for those light lures, if not i would just get a abu garcia


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## exp2000 (Jul 9, 2011)

scater said:


> exp2000 said:
> 
> 
> > The best casting reels have the _lightest spools _and must be matched to the weight of the lure being casted.
> ...


Interesting point but in reality that same inertia works against you when trying to feather the spool with your thumb once again making cast control more difficult with a heavier spool. A lighter spool allows better cast control which is why anyone casting small lures will opt for the smallest reel they can get away with. Oversimplification or overcomplication?
~


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## scater (Nov 24, 2007)

A thumb is far too big, heavy and powerful a thing to be worried by a few grams difference in spool weight.


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## exp2000 (Jul 9, 2011)

scater said:


> A thumb is far too big, heavy and powerful a thing to be worried by a few grams difference in spool weight.


You are not using the weight of your thumb nor it's potential power. You are using the skin of your thumb as a friction surface to control the inertia of the spool. The process IS called *feathering* for a reason. And when we are talking lightweigt lures, yes every gram of spool weight does matter.

The inertia of the spool acts against cast control at the inception - the heavier the spool the more force required to impart spin to it effectively acting as an inertial "brake" on the lure.

The inertia of the spool acts against cast control during the cast. A heavy spool spinning forever may amaze impressionable customers at the sales counter but the reality of the matter is that _lures do not travel through the air forever _and what you deem to be a positive attribute is in fact a _the _big negative of any overhead reel. Exhibit a baitcaster working into the wind which requires more effort to control the spool before linefeed overtakes the lure resulting in a birdsnest.

Air resistance and lure weight are the real factors governing a cast because they determine the speed of the lure through the air and the amount linefeed required to keep pace with the it and any talk of a heavy spool being in any way positive attribute is just so much hyperbole.

The only value of a heavy spool is strength and rigidity under extreme loads preventing warping and distortion.

Again spool weight is not a great factor wehn we are talking lazy casts into barra snags but if you are trying for distance it is everything.

As you originally stated, "Calcuttas are good casting reels but not designed for low-weight lures".

On the point of line guide friction being a limiting factor I would also take exception. The width of the spool and the distance of the lineguide from the spool are far more critical factors because they determine the angle of linefeed from the spool. On larger reels with wide spools where the lineguide comes to rest at the end of it's travel and the line is feeding from the opposite side of the spool, the angle of linefeed can be extreme and the line has to skate across a large proportion of the spool contents before it even leaves the spool. The mechanics of this design is a huge impediment to casting on wider spools to the point where some anglers remove the lineguide from the reel completely to overcome the ugly limitations of this design. Then it's back to the all important thumb to lay line back on the spool but at least you can cast with it.
~


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## scater (Nov 24, 2007)

I'm not what you mean by hyperbole (I know what hyperbole means, just not what you're using it there for) but heavy spools and light spools both have their place. Heavy of course is a relative term here. The mechanics of what is happening in a baitcaster during a cast are so fine and subtle that any input from a thumb, even feathering will have a massive influence on the spool's rotation - even with a heavy spool. 
The real advantage of a light spool is in finesse presentations. When flipping and pitching light lures short distances with little force it is important to have quick spool startup but also quick spool slowdown - both attributes of light spools. It's the reason you see pixys and the like with heavily ported spools that are more air than metal. Distance casting requires the opposite. The heaviness of the lure used for a distance cast has no problem getting a heavy spool spinning and inertia will keep it spinning as long as possible - leaving it up to the angler to decide when to slow it down. I guarantee no distance caster is using a heavily ported, featherlight wiffle spool.
You are right about the line guide of course on big wide spools but we're getting away from baitcasters a bit now. The biggest overhead I've ever cast was an Abu 6500c4 which had a non-disengaging levelwind, no doubt for exactly the reason you've highlighted. I wouldn't have classed it as a baitcaster though. Both of my BCs (zillion and curado) have a spool about half the width. The engineers at Shimano and Daiwa didn't disengage the levelwind for fun, it would be much easier to leave the gears meshed. They obviously weighed up the advantages and disadvantages and decided it was better to have a little line angle than to move the worm gear and levelwind as well as the spool. As I said the T3 looks to be a brilliant way of dealing with this issue.

I think we're getting away a bit from what the original poster was asking. As far as recommendations go, and without any idea what you want to use it for, I'd stick to Daiwa, Shimano, Abu Garcia, Pflueger and Quantum and save a little rather than getting a cheap reel. As you've probably gathered, BCs are complicated bits of gear and need quality componentry to work at their best. I'm happy to use a cheap spinning reel but $200 is my lower limit for a baitcaster. That's not snobbiness, it's an acknowledgment of what goes into making a good one.


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## exp2000 (Jul 9, 2011)

scater said:


> Distance casting requires the opposite. The heaviness of the lure used for a distance cast has no problem getting a heavy spool spinning and inertia will keep it spinning as long as possible - leaving it up to the angler to decide when to slow it down.


Can you give me an example of where an overhead reel with a heavy spool has ever been a distance casting competition favourite?



scater said:


> The engineers at Shimano and Daiwa didn't disengage the levelwind for fun, it would be much easier to leave the gears meshed. They obviously weighed up the advantages and disadvantages and decided it was better to have a little line angle than to move the worm gear and levelwind as well as the spool.


If only practicality and performace were the sole criteria for reel design! As I said before it is a concept which works fine on narrow spools which are well engineered. On wider spools the extreme angle it creates is such an unmitigated disaster that anglers would rather remove the levelwind altogether than endure this engineering masterpiece. If it such a brilliant concept across the board why would anglers resort to such extreme measures? 
~


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## Penno (Dec 2, 2005)

You don't need to use your thumb on the Calais DC,just an observation,but don't put to light a line on it.
Penno


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## scater (Nov 24, 2007)

exp2000 said:


> scater said:
> 
> 
> > Distance casting requires the opposite. The heaviness of the lure used for a distance cast has no problem getting a heavy spool spinning and inertia will keep it spinning as long as possible - leaving it up to the angler to decide when to slow it down.
> ...


Once again you're talking about big overheads, not baitcasters. I've never heard of the levelwind being removed on a baitcaster. As far as distance casting favourites go, the Abu 7000 springs to mind. Funnily enough, not a baitcaster. Is anyone else bored yet?


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## exp2000 (Jul 9, 2011)

scater said:


> [As far as distance casting favourites go, the Abu 7000 springs to mind. Funnily enough, not a baitcaster.


Where do you draw the line? Before the low profile baitcasters were born, ABUs were pretty much it and 6500 and 7000s _were _sold as baitcast reels. Google it and you will see that they are still marketed as such. To my mind the definition of a baitcasting reel is any overhead which can comfortably cast an average plug and these reels fall into that definition.



scater said:


> [Once again you're talking about big overheads, not baitcasters. I've never heard of the levelwind being removed on a baitcaster.


Either the heavy spool principle you keep pushing is valid or it's not. The fact is that no overhead reel used in distance casting comps has a heavy spool. The ABU 6500 is a baitcaster. It has seen a lot of use in distance casting comps. Does it have a heavy spool? Likewise Daiwa SLOSH and the like, Penn 525 mag etc all have light spools. According to your theory the pros are making the wrong choice.

Along with others I have removed the levelwind mechanism from Calcutta clones because of the problems caused during casting with the radical linefeed angle off the spool. Once again not a big problem on the smaller models but an absolute pig of a reel when the lineguide rests on the extreme of it's travel on wider spools and much better off without it when trying for distance.

I do not believe your heavy spool theory holds water and I invite you to present evidence beyond your own convictions to support your theory.

I have yet to see a manufacturer add weights to a baitcaster spool to imrove casting performance but sometimes they do "drill" holes in the spool to lighten it.
~


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