# 3 way reel test



## spooled1

After destroying another two 2500 series reels today I decided to mount a reel death challenge so that I can determine the toughest 2000-3500 series snapper reel under $40. So far the Jarvis Walker RG-2500 is my #1 pick and the Jarvis Walker SXR-2500 my worst performer.

To level the playing field, this arvo I hit Big W and Kmart and purchased:

Abu Cardinal C224 @ $19.49 and a
Jarvis Walker Vector VTR3 350 @ $15.00

About 2 weeks ago I also purchased off ebay a Melaluka YC3000 @ $22.20 so that's been put into this test as well.

Because the spools on the Abu and JW are plastic, I swapped them out with RG-2500 and SXR-2500 aluminum spools and tricked up the drag on all three spools using leather, reel grease and graphite powder. All spools are loaded with 20lb braid and 20-40lb leader.

To give these reels an equal workout, I'll take all three reels out on the yak each session. Because I only ever use two rods at a time, I'll try to equally rotate the third rod during the session.

Straight from the pack, the Maleluka seems the strongest and best built, followed by the JW Vector and in last place, the Abu. 
At the moment, the Maleluka has already got a good headstart coz it's landed today's biggest snapper and also the 7kg snapper the other week.
Let the testing begin...


----------



## spooled1

Rods are:

6 foot 6-8kg ***** Exlite R
6 foot 6-10kg Silstar Crystal Powertip
6 foot 10kg Dakau Custom

The reels will probably rotate around the rods when I pull them apart for maintenance and relubes. The silstar is pretty heavy and uncomfortable to cast and it's also held together with four screws to stop the reel seat from twisting. If I offload a rod that'll hopefully be the first to go.


----------



## RangiRocks

Have u considered spending $350 on a top class reel and adding innox occasionally

Sounds like it may be cheaper


----------



## grumpy2

3 cheap reels at $40 = $120. By the time you finish the season add two more, =$180 now I know you dont want to hear it but, buy good buy once, buy crap buy twice.
Try motackle .com the best prices for quality gear and I have been buying from them for 30 yrs.
Guess where I will be heading when I get my ocean kayak ultra.
$300 per reel will keep me going as long as the yak or until I die, whichever comes first.


----------



## yaker

.


----------



## spooled1

grumpy2 said:


> 3 cheap reels at $40 = $120. By the time you finish the season add two more, =$180 now I know you dont want to hear it but, buy good buy once, buy crap buy twice.
> Try motackle .com the best prices for quality gear and I have been buying from them for 30 yrs.
> Guess where I will be heading when I get my ocean kayak ultra.
> $300 per reel will keep me going as long as the yak or until I die, whichever comes first.


I bet you $100 that I would destroy a $300 reel quicker than 5 x $40 reels while undergoing EXACTLY the same maintenance procedures and level of use seen on my yak.


----------



## gcfisho

3 reels for under $ 57 ! Interested to see the results .


----------



## Dodge

Dan, looking forward to reading a Ford v Holden reel battle comparison, instead of the never ending Ferrari v Maserati reel threads....a lot of ordinary and keen anglers will follow this thread.


----------



## Marineside

Keen to here the results as i predominantly buy the cheap gear to except for 1 more expensive real for spinning which was given to me.


----------



## spooled1

After todays effort on the first fish from the Abu Cardinal C224, I'm almost certain that this reel WILL NOT last more than a couple of solid snapper or a couple of yak sessions. As I was winding the 83cm snapper toward the yak I could feel flex in the reel stem. Under load the gears really struggled. I also felt way too much free play inside the reel when I cranked against drag. There is no way I could comfortably give this reel the sort of curry dished out to the old JW RG-2500 workhorse that lasted me 18 months.
I will probably return this reel for a refund today and trade up to a different reel because I don't think the C224 has what it takes as a sub <$40 snapper reel. Even on a bare SP retrieve it seemed to feel difficult. As a whiting reel it'll probably do the job but todays snapper seriously outclassed it.

As for the JW Vector I don't mind the feel of it in both cast and winding and it cranked OK after the cast. With the Maleluka, so far so good too.


----------



## Showbag

Not all of us have $300 at any one time to spend on a reel. I might have access to that much spare cash over a couple of months, so I will stick to the cheap stuff. i don't get so upset when I tip over in the surf and lose the combo to the sand monster, either.

Keep posting. Very interesting read on the Abu...


----------



## spooled1

Big W kindly gave me a refund on the Cardinal C224. With only a couple of realistic test choices on the shelves I broke my $40 pledge and spent $42.50 on a Penn Mag Power 3000 (this test is now boosted to <$45 - sorry). Other BigW sub $45 choices in the 2000-3500 class were a Shakespeare Synergy @ $37 as well as one of the sub $45 Shimano offerrings that I'm yet to test.

Looking at the Penn Mag Power, I'm quietly confident that it's got some extra guts both on the Maleluka and the Vector. Interestingly it sports a more robust handle lock mechanism to the other budget brands on test and has a thicker stainless main shaft so spools aren't interchangeable like they are on the other two models. At double the price of the other two test reels this Penn would seriously want to be twice as good.


----------



## mangajack

I have just retired a Symetre 2000 reel i bought about 15 yrs ago. It had two services in its life, spent most weekends copping a flogging and being drowned in salt water on a weekly basis at least. It also spent a full 8 days on the bottom of Moreton Bay last year in 8m of water until I fished it back up the following weekend. Stripped it down, soaked in metho, Scrubbed it clean, regrease and oil and put back into service. It is still running but getting a tad tired now. Just replaced it with a Saros 2500. Lonhgevity needs not carry a big price tag. I paid $98 for it about 15 yrs ago from K Mart i think.

Jack.


----------



## spooled1

This morning I pulled the Vector and Penn apart for a preliminary lube and prep for the yak. I've done the Maleluka a few times already so can tell you about all three.

JW Vector: When I removed the rotor, I was seriously dissapointed with the antireverse setup. I was hoping it used a one way ballbearing infinite antireverse but instead it uses a nasty wire and bracket setup. There's also a tiny spring that is used to prevent the reverse switch from switching. Anyway, this spring flew into oblivion without me even touching it but I managed to fix it so the handle doesn't spin backwards. When I opened up the main body I was pleased to see the Vector uses the exact same drive gearing components as the RG-2500 and SXG-2500 except for the brass pinion and pinion bearing. The Vector only has one main drive bearing. Because the drive gear, transmission gear, oscillation slider and main shaft are exactly the same, I rebuilt my trusty old RG-2500 and put the old RG gearings inside the Vector because after seeing the Antireverse system I'm pretty certain the Vector won't go the distance beyond one or two fish. For the $15 I spent, I figured it was better to kill the half dead Vector than destroy an old reliable reel that can be brought back to full life through drive gear and complete shaft transplants.

Penn: First thing I noticed with the Penn was that you remove the rotor by undoing the nut anticlockwise as opposed to clockwise like on many budget reels. The sealed infinite anti reverse system is similar to the higher end models and this is good news. The Maleluka also sports this system. The handle mechanism is HEAPS more robust than the other test reels and it uses a big retaining screw to keep the handle perfectly locked into the gears. Internally the main drive gear is about 20% bigger than the Vector and Maleluka. There's one bearing above the drive gear and a removable bushing on the other side that you can swap with a bearing if you have a spare one floating about. To permanantly lock the reel so the handle doesn't spin backward was super easy. All I did was unscrew the rod pin that attaches to the reversing switch and pull the whole rod out. Now the handle can NEVER accidently spin backwards. Lastly, the factory drag mechanism on the Penn is heaps better than anything in its class and I might give it a few tries on the original setup before attempting an washer upgrade. The only downside is an inability to interchange spools between brands.

Maleluka: This reel is like a cross between the Vector and the Penn but it's closer to a slightly pimped RG or SXG. Only real difference on this one is bearings on either side of the main drive gear and a couple of tiny bearings under the spool (I permanently removed these so I could interchange spools from my older spools that were already pre loaded with braid)

At this point I rate Penn #1 by a long shot, followed by Maleluka and lastly Vector.


----------



## grumpy2

gra said:


> grumpy2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 3 cheap reels at $40 = $120. By the time you finish the season add two more, =$180 now I know you dont want to hear it but, buy good buy once, buy crap buy twice.
> Try motackle .com the best prices for quality gear and I have been buying from them for 30 yrs.
> Guess where I will be heading when I get my ocean kayak ultra.
> $300 per reel will keep me going as long as the yak or until I die, whichever comes first.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, a bit of advice for new players. I reckon before you jump on the patronising bus so quickly you should maybe do a search on his trip reports. I reckon he's probably been to Mo Tackle.. maybe even twice..
> And when you do get your flash new Ultra, turn around once in a while when you're in the big blue and have a look at the buckets of salt water pouring over your $300 mixmaster. You may want to revise you estimate on lifespan.
> Now, if we were talking about $600+ reels it may be a different tale.
> 
> Gra
Click to expand...

Only new to kayaking not fishing, I have been doing that for 40 yrs including handlining for a living off gladstone reefs. If a reel cant handle salt water then its not a decent quality reel. I had tld 10 and 15 from shimano and reckon they were the best salt water reel I tried. Mixmasters arent the only reel or method of fishing.
So please dont be so patronising. Some of us have been there done that.


----------



## fishoboy

Good one Dan. For somebody like me who would only want this sort of rig for very occasional use, knowing what sort of budget outfit will minimise the risk of losing the dream fish is very valuable.

Will keep watching with interest.


----------



## AndyC

Dan, I reckon Kraley made a really good point regarding stress testing reels at the upper end of the market on the same terms as you are doing with the cheap ones.

I have a few of those JW Vector VTR 350's. The spool indicates capacities of line in either 6 or 8 pound B/S. They do really well for what they were designed to do ...... catching the kind of fish that I can land on eight pound line.

I couldn't find any specs for the Abu reel that you caught the snapper on using 20 pound B/S braid and then returned for refund. Am I right to assume it is designed to similar specs to the Vectors?

If so, I am just wondering if the 2500 size reels at the upper end of the market are designed to only take similar B/S line (8-10 pounds). If that is the case would owners routinely load them up with twenty pound braid? If they do, and the reels stand up to that long term, then I begin to see why people would buy that top end stuff. Can't see why a supplier would want to honor a warranty claim though :shock: :shock: :shock: Its seems akin to towing a huge caravan, using a Hyundai Getz!

I know I've read loads of claims about the reliability of those expensive reels (always by people who have shelled out and bought them). Like Kraley though, I'd love to have someone like you, put them to some objective testing!

Cheers,

AndyC


----------



## yaker

.


----------



## RedPhoenix

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

----

QlpoOTFBWSZTWTsd/xEAACHXgAAQQOcEIhQAP//fsDAA1tBBNJ6gPU2oaAAARTyanigNNAANADVP01NBGjUyT9KeoZPSPUKAwPN9qeUbRcRBMK4wyDr0jQ1jVOyEjOK9mMnsKzTzO1U3PpjLfSHc3BmY+LY8OEON2C8/gYX5/VGoJyRmIqzV0gHwiRQ2TucMtWZWfBhB5EvRAPpjYcJqzvw2Ht6nn55gQ0zbWhGscWdQIQwJkKylcOob2CVtBkJuPvtmstK4VoupR1us9tN8XfMDIEqOLOGdGhEQYHvt2Qek+pXiHNRQzQaPVpH+y/xdyRThQkDsd/xE


----------



## spooled1

Gra: Cheers for the props

Grumpy2: While I'm not one to enjoy the thrill casting 1/4oz SP's off a handline or TLD, maybe you should read below.

AndyC and Yaker: You raise some really valid points and yes, these reels are being tested seriously above their rating on B/S line classes. The fundamental issue I face as a coastal yak angler who surf launches and has access to reasonable sized fish is that there's a direct correlation between gear destruction and the hole in my pocket. Additionaly, no reel manuafacturers that I know of are currently recommending thier product for kayak use. In fact, most aren't even warranting thier reels against saltwater intrusion. Purely due to freak luck and circumstance I discovered one budget reel model that was able to handle some serious abuse (if maintained on the basis that salt water penetrated internally, EVERY trip). Since that RG-2500 is now of Kmarts list and replaced by the SXR-2500, I've been forced to find a new reel model that can skull drag a snapper or jew but remains light and fun to cast softbaits, but won't make me cry if it gets sanded up or dies in a couple of months.

If a reel manufacturer can say, here's a 2500 reel that we warrant for regular full salt immersion on a yak with a 6kg drag rating, I'll probably fork out $300. At the moment, the manufacturers aren't doing that so, as a customer, they don't deserve my $300. They also don't deserve my $30 but this test might prove that we can take a hit on quality, catch fish and not even need a warranty.

Off the bat I'm highly skeptical that the big end of town will loan me a premium reel for yak testing in the conditions I choose to fish in. Okuma loaned me the Salina II 5000, which is a brilliant piece of yak kit. A lot of this is due to it's simplicity, quality and small number of components that are easily accessed for full opening and cleaning. Hand me a Stella or Saltiga and I'd never get those reels back together again. Those reels are not designed for dumbasses like me to reconstruct in 15 minutes. If the big boys come up with a premium reel they fully support for coastal yak use, they're welcome to hand me a freebie and I'd be the perfect guineapig. Somehow I can't see that happening too often.


----------



## grumpy2

dan
you asked for an opinion about cheap or expensive, no I did not read ALL the probably thousands of topics. I gave my honest opinion politely. I figure after 40 yrs of fishing I might actually have an idea or two.
gra
I gave my opinion in good faith in the belief it would be respected, if you are just too good to listen to anyone else then that is your problem. 
Dont bother answering, you have shown what the kayak blogs are like. Ive better things to do with my time than justify my experience to [mod edit. warning not issued, since it seems as though grumpy's heading off anyway].
BYe


----------



## spooled1

Gatesy said:


> What are the reels like straight out of the box for fishing?


The Vector and Maleluka both use fibre drag washers so they would be probably OK for a few sessions but can jerk up as you lock the drag on bigger fish. The reason I swapped out the fibre ones was because leather provides higher compression while maintaining smoothness under higher loads. The Penn uses some sort of woven fibre, perhaps a carbon blend. This drag was super smooth straight from the box on that 1st snapper.

As for percentages, a smooth drag that can be locked up and still pull smooth at the highest rating is just as important as gears that are properly matched. You will always lose more fish on a rough drag.



Gatesy said:


> PS I ditto Ken's comments in the report about returning a reel after it caught a 83cm Snapper - Bloody hilarious, like I think I little bit of wee came out I was laughing so hard


If manufacturers supplied maximum line class ratings on the vac-pac, they wouldn't get product returns from idiots like me who think they can catch 40kg GT's at Wreck Reef using $30, 10000 series eggbeaters loaded with 130lb braid.


----------



## diabolical

Hi Dan, are you aware the Okuma Salina II is available from OS in a 3000 size.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Okuma-SALINA-II- ... 0379286042


----------



## spooled1

diabolical said:


> are you aware the Okuma Salina II is available from OS in a 3000 size.


Yeah Dia. At this point I think they're still unsupported Australia, if they're supported by Okuma Australia I'll probably get one. Local distributor support is important because of access to the spare parts. I'll find out more but yeah, I reckon that'll be a seriously good reel option for those willing to open thier wallets a little bit wider.


----------



## phil79

Ha Ha grumpy 2 you made me laugh,,good stuff.
keep testing dan, Ill pm my hm address so you can mail me the "results",filleted preferably!!


----------



## paddleparra

I have just this week managed to get my hands on a Salina II 3000 (myself and another from yakker from the sunny coast) yet to take it out but for the money I paid for it ($100) what a great looking and functional piece of kit! (22kg of smooth drag and thats without modification) I have to admit that personally to prolong the life of the gear I have broken over my last couple of years bluewater yakking I leave them out on launch but pack away on landing (which is when I usually wet!) with the usual daily maintenance and one big service annually or when needed.

I am keen to see if the reel mets the reputation. As for the reviews you do Dan, I love your work. Cheers

PP


----------



## RangiRocks

Just got one of the 3000's from Taiwan for $A94
Going up to fnq tomorrow to try it out

Still struggling to come to grips with that much drag on a 3000 reel without destroying but I'll let you know if I catch something big enough

Greg


----------



## diabolical

RangiRocks said:


> Just got one of the 3000's from Taiwan for $A94
> Going up to fnq tomorrow to try it out
> 
> Still struggling to come to grips with that much drag on a 3000 reel without destroying but I'll let you know if I catch something big enough
> 
> Greg


Any chance of you checking the drag output once you spool it up?


----------



## spooled1

Today the Maleluka died. The bail arm fell off while on the water for no particular reason (Loose screws were not to blame)
I might see if an old JW rotor unit and bail arm will resurrect this reel but for the purposes of this trial, the Maleluka failed the longevity and robustness test.
Only two contenders left in the race, The Penn and the rebuilt RG-2500.


----------



## johnny

my money is on the penn..i got one and got kingies on a 3000


----------



## spooled1

The Maleluka lasted just 8 weeks before it died but I'm happy to say it's been fully resurrected. As suspected, the old Jarvis Walker Rotor fit the Maleluka like a glove. The only other thing I did was put the Maleluka bail arm bearings into the JW Rotor because they were in better condition.

That's the great thing about these cheap 2000-3500 series reels, so many seem to share parts from the same factory in China or use parts that are exact replicas of other reels. (The Penn is more unique). The benefit here is that if you have a few cheapo reels you can keep them going by swapping parts whenever reel death occurs.

Like Johnny suspects, the Penn is the clear front runner and has pretty much won even though it's the newest of the three test reels.

Shortly Okuma will be sending me their Salina II 4000 which will (a) Be locally supported and (b) contain a full set of Stainless HPB bearings that the overseas Salina II's apparently don't have. Locally they're not doing a model below the 4000 series from the info I have. This will be a very interesting comparison to the Penn because it's a playoff between the lower value reels vs the next pricepoint.


----------



## spooled1

Gatesy said:


> When the reels break surely they are done for the purposes of this test, sure you can resurrect them using other spare parts but then it is no longer the same reel for the sake of the tests. You are in a lucky situation (or perhaps bad situation :twisted in that you seemingly have infinite numbers of previously destroyed reels around your place to rape and pilage for spare parts. Normal mortal fisherman would have to buy a new reel when something gives way so for them the reel would be DEAD. Do you agree with this or am I off the track?


Yep absolutely! This test is pretty much a done deal with the Penn winning. The Abu C224 was returned because after just one fish due to huge amount of twist and flex in the crank, I was certain that it wouldn't go the distance as a yak snapper reel. The "Jesus Spring" antireverse on the Jarvis Walker Vector was no match for the infinite antireverse on the SXR, Maleluka or Penn so that reel was disqualified and used for spares. On disqualification I rebuilt the RG-2500 using all Vector gearings but retained the RG antireverse. This reel is still going strong. It's unfortunate the Maleluka bail arm failed in such a spectacular way because I really liked the feel of the gears and the crank under load. To answer your question, most anglers would need to buy a new reel if death occurred and if they didn't have a buildup of spares.

BigW will probably have a 25% off tackle sale soon. If that happens I'll probably pick up another MagPower 3000.


----------



## diabolical

spooled1 said:


> Shortly Okuma will be sending me their Salina II 4000 which will (a) Be locally supported and (b) contain a full set of Stainless HPB bearings that the overseas Salina II's apparently don't have. Locally they're not doing a model below the 4000 series from the info I have. This will be a very interesting comparison to the Penn because it's a playoff between the lower value reels vs the next pricepoint.


Hi Dan, the Salina ii 16000 I have bought from overseas does include HPB(high performance bearings) according to the box and supporting literature. I would be suprised if the the reel contained anything other than what is on the box.


----------



## spooled1

Ay Dia,
I'm only commenting on info supplied re the 4000 series. Maybe RangiRocks or PaddleParra can illuminate us on their imported 3000's. I don't know much about the 16000's except that a high speed model may be coming out locally shortly.


----------



## wopfish

Hey Dan

Do you ever 'pack' the internals out in grease - it was a trick I mentioned to a guy I know who recomended it for yak fishos ? SO go very heavy with it so no water enters into the moving spikey bits


----------



## spooled1

wopfish said:


> Do you ever 'pack' the internals out in grease


I used to pack them out but I got lazier on the maintenance and the reels would clog up and feel slower and lumpier. Also, never do this to the infinite antireverse mechanism because eventually the rollers get pushed in and the handle and rotor spin can backwards on the same day you decide to lock up onto a kingie.


----------



## skorgard

There is no doubt that you can catch big fish on cheap gear. The best recent example is a monster SBT caught on a handline mainly using the yak as drag.

The point I would like to make is that quality gear just _feels_ good and gives so much more pleasure - and when it has been your friend for over 20 years the purchase price is forgotten. Fishing is about pleasure and fun so I wont knock anyone for using a $20 reel - they will probably outfish me - but my objective is just to keep smiling.


----------



## wopfish

"The point I would like to make is that quality gear just feels good and gives so much more pleasure - and when it has been your friend for over 20 years the purchase price is forgotten."

Yeah I agree but I also think that Scientist Dan aka Mr Spooled is keen to push the cheap gear as far as he can and in so doing show the world that you too can have fun with a 50 dollar reel from the yak.

Me I'm the other way round - super bling reels and low quality tyre inner tube kayak - call me cheap if you like   but who needs a Hobie when I can pick up a new yak at Bob Janes T mart for under a tenner :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## spooled1

The Penn Mag power is still going great guns. In the last month it's taken some good snapper and hasn't missed a beat despite numerous full dunkings. For the money its a great little performer.

The Maleluka with the Penn Rotor is showing signs that the gears are on the way out. It is still hauling fish but is starting to feel like its about to slip up. The Okuma Salina II 4000 that was given to me by the suppliers a month ago is cranking along faultlessly. Although I havent compared the body size back to back it looks as if the 4000 shares the same body as the 5000 but has a slightly smaller spool capacity. Given the excellent Salina II drag, this 4000 is a good size for sp's set out the back for jewies.


----------



## wopfish

I suppose that once the Maleluka ( with Penn rotor ) gives up the ghost you could always chuck it at any greenie that you came across :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


----------



## robsea

what happened to grumpy?


----------

