# Tackle Retailer Reality



## ScottLovig (Aug 7, 2006)

My intention in posting this is as a little reality check for all of us out there buying our fishing tackle from mail orders, ebay and mulitnational chains. I'm sticking up for the small local tackle retailers because no one ever does and I used to be just like these guys so I know what I'm talking about. This isnt a sooky la la piece, feel sorry for me. Just a heads up and an attemp to even the score for guys who often have to remain silent.

Retailers are not your enemy, trying to rip you off and squeeze every cent from you in order to fuel their new Porches. In nearly all cases these guys are trying to earn honest livings by running reutable businesses. They are fighting big chain stores tying to kill them off and 7 day a week trading that kills their family lives. Here are a few busted myths and realities you mat not be privy too.

Lures are not purchased for $5 wholesale by reatailers and sold for $18.95 to customers. No one makes margins like that and anyone who suggests it is talking through their back end. Very few retailers make the fat profits most people sterotype them with. More loose money rather than flourish, the average guy owns his own job and prehaps makes as much as you and I.

Small retailers are the biggest conduit of innovative advice and product. These guys are only too willing to help you find and catch more fish. They often make or break the success of a new manufacturer, paving the way of its success only too see it on the shelves of Zmart a year or two later undercutting their business and the goodwill they built for it.

Anyone one can be a retailer. This ensures that competition for profit is extemely fierce and only the fittest survive. Very few get fat in this paddock.

Large retailers have the little guys targeted for extermination.

Most are kept up at night worrying about the satisfaction of their latest customer that had a small problem the other day.

The range at my local bulk stores is crap and the product knowlege of the staff is crap. I accept a slighly higher price for better gear and advice resulting in more fish. If I save a few bucks on a lure at Zmart that my local retailer advised me on then I am crapping on his goodwill and risk damaging a valuble local resource.

I get discount at nearly every local trader I frequent and dont need to haggle for price because they know I support them and refer for them.

In my experience, price discounting didnt improve my business and make me more competetive. It only attracted disloyal customers.

Customers are often uneasy about trusting a retailer and watch closly that they dont get taken advantage of. Absolutly fair enough........Anyone ever considered how often that shop owner has stuff stolen from him every week.

The small guy treats his staff like family and will often loose money rather than sack them. If you arent turning over enough money to pay your staff then you have to remorgatge you home to do it.

I often hear and read about people that are unsatisfied with todays customer service and staff knowlege at retail stores. Everytime you buy from a casual, minimum wage employee at a large chain you fuel the fire and stamp out professionalism.

Its been a couple years now since I owned traditional shop fronts but my passion burns for the good guys still slugging it out. My local tackle store is awesome!!!!! Keep up the good work!!!!!!

Cheers

Scott


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## Scott (Aug 29, 2005)

Scott, bloody well said mate. I have been out of the industry for nearly five years now but can agree with everything Scott said. Margins are low. Hours are long, some product life cycles are very short. These are the guys that go to bat for you with the wholesalers when you have a warranty claim. I buy nearly all of my tackle from my local dealers. I am occasionally forced to go elsewhere for more obscure products but will always give them a chance to see if they will order it in first.

Catch ya Scott


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2006)

Amen to that......


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2006)

Oh man, it's about time someone here said that. As a previous retail store owner, I can only agree. The small street side traders put in so much blood sweat and tears for their custom these days. I don't know how many times here I've held back from saying things like 'and you shop at Anaconda because?' or 'you're buying up Lures at Kmart because?'

Don't get me wrong - I know some of you blokes think you're getting a good deal at these multinational stores and where you shop it your perogative, but I refuse to support them because in doing so, I'd be contributing to the death of the street side traders. This is happening before our eyes, and uncontientious consuming is what is making it happen.

I know the guys who have been hired (by Spotlight who own Anaconda), to manage the Anaconda operation. I know how they operate their stores. I know because they tried to hire me as a buyer when they started up. I worked with some of them previous to the chain taking flight. And if I was to reveal what I know, I'd be opening a big-ass can of worms I'd rather not explain here. Same goes for Rays. Same goes for JV. Same goes for several others.

Not in Kmart, Anaconda, or any other conglomerate operation have I ever found the 'hand-picked' range of tackle, and certainly never the kind of quality of after sales service I expect from a retailer... not to mention good old sound advice. For this reason, I always buy from the little guys. And there's loads of good small retailers around. I don't have an affiliation with any of them - I spread my custom far and wide, and thats quite deliberate. Not a single cent of mine goes to multi-national retail corps when it comes to tackle.

Till now I've kept off my soapbox about this issue, but Scott has raised a really good point that I feel rather passionate about (no, I'm no longer in retail, nor do I have friends who own retail stores in the industry) and I couldn't help but adding my 2 bobs worth.

Great post Scott. I couldn't agree more. Our election day votes might amount to jack shit, but we can vote with our dollars every day of the week. People need to think more about where and how they spend.

Oh, and Scott, I know which local tackle store you speak of, and you're spot on. They're not my local, but whenever I'm in the area, I always pop in to top up on whatever I need. They're great, and thats not something you'll hear me say about many retail stores. I'd love to go kayak fishing with those guys - their enthusiasm is infectious. And their advice has been invaluable.


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## PoddyMullet (Aug 29, 2005)

Some food for thought HobieVic...I tend to shop the big guys in the city but always manage to swing by the little fella's in regional areas for local knowledge (and end up walking out with lures). Often the little fella's have some really good stuff like older style metal spoons the big guys have long since left behind in order to keep up with the latest more fashionable piece.


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## deano (Nov 26, 2006)

What Occy said is absolutely correct - local retailers are just not keeping up with the 21st century methods of doing business (ie. over the net). I would be more than happy to buy more from local tackle shops if they offered me the convienience of internet shopping. Mostly they don't, so I either have to make a special trip out to buy the product from their store (during business hours) or I buy from somewhere else (usually I buy from somewhere else). The fact is I consider my time fairly valuable and I am prepared to spend money to save time - internet shopping allows me to do this.

What I see as the major drawback of local stores is that it will cost me more to be inconvenienced by having to drive out to their store. Alternatively, I can save money by shopping at a time of my convenience over the net......I wonder which one I will choose to do? :shock:

This is exacerbated by some store's secretive pricing policy - although not a tackle shop per se, I recently rang a store to enquire about the best price they could give me on a Hobie kayak (the shop had no prices on their website - another pet hate of mine), only to be told that "they don't like to discuss price over the phone, only in person". Well, I figured if their prices were a major selling point they would have been telling everyone, and if they are afraid to tell me their prices over the phone because they might scare me off then I think I should shop somewhere else (which is what I did).

I can completely agree with the statements in relation to getting advice - local shops are the place to get it and the shops should be supported - but at what cost?

I am also a bit confused by the following statement:



Scott said:


> I have been out of the industry for nearly five years now but can agree with everything Scott said. Margins are low.


I recently bought a fishfinder/GPS combination from the USA (over the net) and I got it for less than half the retail price in Oz. That seems like a pretty big margin to me..... :x


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## Scott (Aug 29, 2005)

Deano, it is a sad state of affairs but an individual can buy electronics and many other items cheaper from a retailer in the US than a retailer can buy wholesale in Australia from the distributor.

Catch ya Scott


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## deano (Nov 26, 2006)

Scott said:


> Deano, it is a sad state of affairs but an individual can buy electronics and many other items cheaper from a retailer in the US than a retailer can buy wholesale in Australia from the distributor.


That is a sad state of affairs, but begs the question why don't the aussie retailers buy from the US retailers rather than paying more to the aussie distributors?


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## yakfly (Jun 8, 2006)

chatted to the owner of a shop here in brissy who is part of the tackleworld chain which is made up of some good independent stores who have banded together to get the buying power of places like amart allsports etc.beauty of it is you deal with guys who go fishing and know the ins and outs of the gear and not just someone whos being employed to sell sports equipment.


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## ScottLovig (Aug 7, 2006)

Hi Deano

OZ Retailers cant risk short circuiting the official supply chain or the company will right them off. No backup or warranty to pass on to customers.

Cheers

Scott


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## hairymick (Oct 18, 2005)

G,day guys,

good points on both sides of the argument.

Here in hervey Bay, there are about half a dozen of the smaller tackle stores Hobie Vic talks about. Two of them are staffed by knowledgable fishermen of the type referred to and I support them.

The rest are owned/staffed by wankers who give the impression that thay think you are a [email protected]#$%ng idiot and treat customers with allmost contempt.
I wouldn't send a cent there.

I also support a couple of small online sellers, both of whom are members here. plus Ebay , of course. My thoughts on it are fairly common knowledge. I refuse to buy anything from the Zmart/big letter retail chains.

At the end of the day, it is my money that these people are competing for and I will decide on who gets it.


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## deano (Nov 26, 2006)

That is a real worry - and I can see that the Aussie retailers are stuck in-between a rock and a hard place. Obviously the aussie distributors look like the bad guys in the equation - but ultimately a customer is not going to pay twice the price for a product just to prop up local industry.

I can understand the problem and I feel for the aussie retailers, but for major purchases of over $200 I find it is always worth going overseas.

I would be prepared to pay a small premium to shop from and support aussie retail outlets (not double the price though) - but again they are not providing internet shopping or even a decent webpage with price lists (some do have wepages but refuse to reveal their prices - I mean what is the point?). The fact that we are discussing this online is an indication of the growing technological involvement in the recreational fishing sector.

*My message to local retailers would be this*: at least put up a basic webpage with stock information and prices; or go one better and make a site we can order through (it's quite simple with store building programs such as 'Actinic'). If local stores can match the convenience of the overseas shops they are half way to competing with them on a level playing field - at the moment local stores are both more expensive and more inconvenient.


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## hairymick (Oct 18, 2005)

G'day Deano, bloody good oint mate.

Ya just need to look at the rise and rise of Lureworld. Great product & prices, sensational service and a clear and easy to follow web page - with all prices clearly displayed. too easy. An ideal resource for those of us who don't live in a major town.

Milan also provides similar product and service with a better price, but as yet he hasn't got a web page so shopping from him requires a little more effort. (not much) 

If our tackle stores had a web page similar to something like Cabelas - how good would that be.


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## Jake (Sep 23, 2005)

Excellent thread Scott. The only problem is that people will say how they want to support the local but then go and shop at BCF etc anyway.

Thats how the Howard government got into power, appealing to the back pocket.

Perhaps a sticky thread detailing all the good local tackle shops that AKFFers have found to be good value, not just in terms of dollars but in information and support.

I could start the ball rolling with a great tackle shop in the Gabba in Brissie but because I do their website someone will accuse me of bias. So I wont mention them.

Anyway, just a thought.

As for Cabelas, it would be nice but do you realise how much it costs to setup and maintain that sort of site? Many small retailers just cant afford this sort of thing. And the US has a MUCH bigger market helping to justify the cost.

My 2 cents.


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

To add further - my local tackle guy is freindly and always ready to give and share advise with me - his passion shines through and In general i often shop there and spend regular bucks - untill the other day when i had a price/reality check _ i bought a rod from this guy for $129.00 only to find it online here in Aus for $79.00 (regular price) . Wow how can that be - I feel like a right old mug/chump now because I cannot see how there can be that much of a price difference without me perceiving it as him ripping me off!!!! I feel quite angry about it - in fact I bought a rod/reel combo for my father for Christmas and went 20ks out of my way not to go to his shop a. because i was pissed off at the retailer and b. I would rather now give my money to someone else. I always knew that this guy wasnt probably the cheapest in town but how much of a mark up is acceptable - for me the above comes no where near there being any compettion, from now on If i know what i want I'll go online. I dont want to name any names / shop but its worth cross referencing any purchases with other retailers first - online or not

Regards

Wopfish :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:


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## deano (Nov 26, 2006)

That is a good point - I think many see the argument as Aussie retailers against US internet stores but, as wopfish pointed out, there is a great variation within Australia.

I can imagine that stores such as Kmart would be able to sell at a lower margin and may be able to buy wholesale at better prices, but surely the difference can't be as wide as seems apparent by the inflated prices in some stores.

I have read so many of these posts in different forums and one thing I have noticed is this - the small shop owners all complain at how low the margin is and how expensive the wholesale prices are, but they quickly go quiet when asked to explain what the margins/wholesale prices actually are. That makes it very difficult for us (consumers) to empathise as it appears that we are being fed a lot of BS.

I would be quite interested to know - so to those in the industry - can you enlighten us on how the pricing system works? (eg. how much does a particular Rapala lure cost wholesale, and how much is it sold for?)

In relation to setting up an internet site, it is not expensive at all (I have done it for my small business). Registering the domain is less than $50 for 2 years and hosting is like $200 per year for the whole site (including emails) for most small stores. The website can be done by the business owner (ie. without professional designers) with the programs available these days.


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## Jake (Sep 23, 2005)

deano said:


> In relation to setting up an internet site, it is not expensive at all (I have done it for my small business). Registering the domain is less than $50 for 2 years and hosting is like $200 per year for the whole site (including emails) for most small stores. The website can be done by the business owner (ie. without professional designers) with the programs available these days.


A website is cheap yes.

An online, comprehensive, up to date, detailed database and point of sale system for your entire stock is NOT. You can do the maths if you like.


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## deano (Nov 26, 2006)

At the moment most shops can't even manage a homepage with opening hours and contact details!

I created an online store for my business, and it didn't cost much at all. Sure it is not as detailed as some of the online stores (like amazon), but all my main products are online and can be purchased 24/7. I don't find it too onerous to keep up to date with stock levels and price changes etc. I am not IT trained (except for a course in Microsoft Word a couple of years ago) so I would imagine it is not beyond the capabilities of most shop owners.


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## ScottLovig (Aug 7, 2006)

Guys

I agree with you all on nearly everything.

If a business over charges and or provides bad service then by all means blow them off. Big, small or web based.

I mainly want to point out that good small traders are not the sinister, wealthy rip off merchants often portrayed here and other places of discussion. They are guys trying to make an honest go and usualy being screwed on all sides.

International web traders with significant discounts of brand name goods, especialy ebay businesses are nearly always short circuiting the regular supply chains in some way. Its called grey market goods. You, the buyer, often win (but not always), the manufacturer still makes a sale so officialy they dont like it but under the table they often dont care. Guess who gets screwed.....the guy with the most to lose, trys to provide the most customer back up, pays the highest real estate costs and works longest working hours for the smallest slice of the pie.

Yes he should leave the business and do something new. Dosent mean its not a shame and I for one will miss these guys when they are all soon extinct.

By the way, as a trader, if you tell people your wholesale cost then they often become offended when you dont sell the goods to them for the same price. Weird but true.

Cheers

Scott


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## Ironsides (Jul 10, 2006)

I think its called evolution :?:


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

I think at the end of the day if your a serious fisho - cheapest doesnt always mean best - as the small shop tackle dealer who puts in the time lets you get your hands on the merchandise, advises and nurtures then I'm sure he'll win out in the end as long as his prices are reasonably competitive as in general I like to see and feel what I'm paying my money for and a 'real' shop enables me to do that. I'm happy to pay a little extra for the fact that I'll be buying something thats right and tested for me, by me (al be it in the shop).

If your buying off the net = then a. you know exactly want you want or think you want or b. your happy to buy something on the risk that it may or not be want you really wanted or needed.

There is also the probable certainty that your local shop retailer will look after you if things go wrong and you need to get onto the manufacturers.


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## onemorecast (Apr 17, 2006)

hairymick said:


> The rest are owned/staffed by wankers who give the impression that thay think you are a [email protected]#$%ng idiot and treat customers with allmost contempt.
> I wouldn't send a cent there.


Mick you hit it right on the head for me... Customer Service.

There is a tackle shop very close to me but I don't go there as much as I would like to for this very reason. I often feel like I am at best an inconvenience or at worst an idiot. I know it's not just me as I've seen others treated in a similar way.

That said there is one bloke who's pretty decent, but he's not always there.

I generally shop around and like to give my business to the local shops but won't pass up 25% off at Kmart for some hooks, sinkers, swivels etc. One difference is that I usually leave Kmart with less than $15 worth of gear. I find it hard to leave the local shops with less than $20 or $30. Not because they are necessarily more expensive but because they have so much more... and I am weak


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## milansek (Apr 20, 2006)

hi guys very interesting post and very true the big boys are putting a lot off pressure on the smaller shops but these are the time and the way things are going mega shops are the way of the future sad but true . i was talking with someone from spring wood marine why they just shut down there tackle store . he sad it was not worth running it big out lay small return . eg. tld25 reel cost $165 advertised by big shops at $179 that's just one eg . so as you can see its not worth it . so they you go and who ever things tackle shops have big mark ups you are so wrong . you will never make a million from a tackle shop but you can have a good life style and go fishing allot. Milan


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## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

There is only one thing that can sell "Customer Service" and that is: WORD OF MOUTH.

A retailer can scream, "Customer Service" at the top of his lungs for a hundred years and he'll wind up out of breath.

Here's the flipside:

Big W - Spanyid Raider 85 Grams $3.94ea (Barcode mistake)

For that price, stuff the service, I'll buy twenty of them at once. Hopefully they don't rescan the prices while I'm waiting to pay. An 85 gram raider is essential rock fishing tackle that normally costs up to $7.95 each. If Big W makes a pricing mistake, I'm not gonna tell them.


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## troppo (Feb 1, 2006)

30 years ago my friend's family ran a sports store (mostly fishing) but they sold out when Target and Kmart opened in the town and sold fishing gear cheaper than they could buy it.

The 'market place' as we know it continues to change. Changing into what I don't know - some good, but can guarantee some bad. That's a part of life. However, we should not meekly accept the bad when we can do something about it. Even if we can't change everything, we should at least try. That's the benefit of our society.


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## hairymick (Oct 18, 2005)

here is a thought. I have one occassionally.

I visited a new big supposedly U beaut tackle store in Hervey Bay today and I noticed something.

This mob had very good specials on a few items but everything else was a little dearer than the smaller family run business that I usually buy from.

I have also noticed a similar thing at Bunnings hardware


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## Guest (Dec 19, 2006)

hairymick said:


> here is a thought. I have one occassionally.
> 
> I visited a new big supposedly U beaut tackle store in Hervey Bay today and I noticed something.
> 
> ...


Same deal here on the coast Hairy.....

Great place to grab a select bargain, but you would be mad to buy everything there. Anaconda have some great one off specials (manufacturer clearances mostly it seems?) but their overall range of lures, reels and tackle is quite poor, as well as expensive.

As far as bargains go, some of the best ones I have picked up were at the smaller local tackle stores I visit.

Gold Coast Fishing Tackle (part of the tackleworld group) are often having 20% off sales on all lures, and a few good deals to be had on rods and reels from time to time. I picked up a Ugly Stick Gold 10kg Overhead rod there for $30 at a clearance sale, along with another Abu Rod marked down to $30 the same day.

At another store on the coast here I picked up a Pflueger Premier Baitcaster which sells in the mid $300's for $199 on sale......

The bargains are there at the independent stores you just need to be in there at the right time as stocks are generally very limited 

I would buy the odd item from the larger stores when they have some great specials going, but I would say 90% of my lures, tackle etc come from the smaller independents.


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## evarn (Jul 10, 2006)

I wrote a whole other response, but decided it was too long, so i'll keep this short.

I see this all as a part of the overall loss of identity and essentially a loss of the individual in our "modern" (read current) society. Fishing tackle stores are still to be found, but think of all the other little business we have lost. The good old photo/camera shops, the local butcher even the humble milk bar is a threatened species.

In this day and age of outrageous mortgages, huge mcmansions, dual income families, huge shopping mega malls, there's little room for the people that just want to make their own way in the world. Think of the entire generation of young people that will never even be able to afford a house. Is it any wonder people are looking for a bargain price and to make money off everyone else at the biggest margin. I'm surprised anyone goes into (retail) business for themselves at all anymore, but good on em for trying.

I will always happily pay more for the right gear and the service of a friendly small retailer, but that doesn't stop me getting my soft plastics at Big-W if i'm passing through because the prices don't vary that much.

The issues brought up here are a sympton of a far worse crisis that we as a society face in the near future. I'm sitting by just waiting for the call to tell me my job is going to India..

It's a good thing I know how to fish, else I'd go hungry...



Ivan


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