# Dragged to death by your catch?



## gonetroppo (Jan 29, 2011)

I recently saw an episode of River Monsters where they were catching huge catfish out of canoes in a remote jungle village. The locals told a story of one fisherman trying to pull one of these monsters into the canoe when he got a hook stuck in his hand and was pulled overboard by the fish, which then dragged him down and drowned him. 
It kinda freaked me out a little as I realised that this could certainly happen fishing from the yak. Anyone had an experince similar to this?


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## wadefishes (May 8, 2011)

Yeah i seen the same episode scary


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## sbd (Aug 18, 2006)

I caught a sargeant baker on a live yakka today, and nearly died of shame.


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## Musty (Oct 12, 2010)

who the hells catching fish so large off their yaks that if the hook impaled your hand u would be dragged under water and drowned?
C'mon mate thats like saying if u go to a party and hold a helium balloon thats over inflated u will rise up and fly away, never to be seen again.
LOL I mean REALLY.

Musty


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## SharkNett (Feb 20, 2006)

Musty said:


> who the hells catching fish so large off their yaks that if the hook impaled your hand u would be dragged under water and drowned?
> C'mon mate thats like saying if u go to a party and hold a helium balloon thats over inflated u will rise up and fly away, never to be seen again.
> LOL I mean REALLY.
> 
> Musty


Actually there are many accounts of things going horribly wrong at the fishermans end. To give you some idea of how hard a fish can pull

There is an account from Sydney Harbour where a guy decided to fish heavy gear and harness from a wharf to stop a resident cod. Pars of harness etc were eventually brought up by a trawler many years later.

Have seen the aftermath photos of a guy who decided to fish heavy gear from a rock platform for big kings. He was dragged accross the rocks until (fortunately for him) the fish found some reef to shred the line on.

Currently reading a book called "Ghosts of the estuary" in which the writer describes using 50lb cord handline and 80lb trace landbased to see just how hard a jew can pull. Fish was too strong to hold the cord without personal injury to the fisherman. Ended up pulled off balance and unable to hang on.

If a fish can do these things to people land based, why would they not be able to tip a kayak?

Any of the big cobes the Palmy guys got the other week on 50lb braid could easily pull someone off the yak and down if the right (or wrong?) circumstances were to occur. If it did happen you may float eventually, but possibly not while it will do you any good.


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## WayneD (Jul 11, 2006)

Never watched the show have you Musty. Some of these freshwater catfish can get up to 2mts+. These villagers are catching them in dug out canoes. Ever tied a piece of line around you and see how much drag you can pull while swimming? It's not much, the presenter tried it in one of the shows. When in the water we are under gunned against a fish the same size as us.


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## Barrabundy (Sep 29, 2008)

I live in hope!

Seriously though, I've hooked unstoppables while live baiting with 60lb handline in the tinny. The pressure has been so much on the plastic handline spool after winding a few layers back on that the spool has been compressed out of shape. Needless to say the fish have escaped. I suspect they may have been big cod or grouper. If you were in a kayak you'd either be going for a very long scenic cruise or going for a swim, no chance of stopping anything of size.


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## wfish (Sep 17, 2008)

In these days of reels with incredable drag pressures and ultra strong braid, it makes me wonder how much drag and line strength is really needed on a yak. It doesn't take much drag or line strength to lock up and get towed around using the yak as drag. 
Wfish


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## andybear (Jan 15, 2006)

Very very feasible I would say!

If you got tied, hooked or tangled with any critter (guessing here 30Kg plus), you could be in serious trouble (IMHO)
I for one am not prepared to deal with this problem (yet). My knife is never secured to my person, nor do I have one of those special blade safe line cutters. I must get one soon.
Probably your PFD would give you a certain amount of support, but a big fish on a short line, could hold you under for long enough to make life really really hard.

My opinions only, I have done no research into this matter.

Cheeers all andybear


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## Barrabundy (Sep 29, 2008)

Apart from becoming entangled, wouldn't you just let go? Underwater, being dragged and out of control, I don't think I'd really care about catching the fish or saving my gear, letting go wouldn't be that hard to do. Keep in mind you'd have to be exerting quite a bite of effort to stay connected and be underwater, letting go would almost come naturally wouldn't it? Being tangled up is a different story altogether.


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

Lapse said:


> dont tether yourself to the rod, or leave any exposed hooks that you can hook yourself onto.
> 
> Always have an easily reached knife attached to yourself


Preferably a safety knife. These are a hook shape of plastic shielding the (often SS) blade , and the gape of the hook is small enough to prevent a finger reaching the blade. I first heard of them being used in parachuting, and we bought some and carried them to swiftly and safely deal with entaglement in white water rescues etc gone wrong. They will cut rope up to about 8 or 10 mm diameter (bit smaller than your little finger).

Whitworths marine have them.

Worthwhile addition to basic safety kit, and much safer than an open blade. As Lapse says, it must be attached to your PFD.

Trevor


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## Musty (Oct 12, 2010)

WayneD said:


> Never watched the show have you Musty. Some of these freshwater catfish can get up to 2mts+. These villagers are catching them in dug out canoes. Ever tied a piece of line around you and see how much drag you can pull while swimming? It's not much, the presenter tried it in one of the shows. When in the water we are under gunned against a fish the same size as us.


Yehhh I get what you guys are saying, outside of yak fishing I also do a bit of game fishing when I can so I know how hard fish can pull, but thats the reason why you never wrap line around your fingers, hands, arm etc, and always have a sharp knife and pliers handy.
If it looks like its about to get messy you ABORT, simple. Going overboard shouldnt happen let alone dragged under!

Musty


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## 4weightfanatic (May 19, 2011)

I've wondered about guys that dive down to snags to release a lure - too bad if a treble sinks in deep it's rip it or drown I reckon. Pat.


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## Ironbar (Apr 7, 2008)

Musty said:


> If it looks like its about to get messy you ABORT, simple. Going overboard shouldnt happen let alone dragged under!
> 
> Musty


That's exactly right.

I have never heard that anyone got dragged overboard or even underwater from his kayak by a fish. That is a virtually impossible scenario.
I wouldn't worry about things like this.


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## eagle4031 (Jan 29, 2010)

i have a knife in my PFD1


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## mangajack (Jul 23, 2007)

I have seen vids of longliners getting caught by a baited hook as they clip them on and dragged overboard by thew mainline, all too often they don't get to them in time.
There have been trawler guys caught up in net tails and taken for a last swim too, not to mention trawlers driving themselves underwater with a deep snagged net. By the time you realise it is snagged you are taking water over the stern.


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## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

Ive seen a bloke get pulled off his kayak and to the bottom wearing a pdf by a 15kg+ kingfish on the gaff shot, he didnt let go because it was a good fish and eventually resurfaced. 
So if you were tangled or hooked and the fish big enough you could easily be dragged to death.


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## Barrabundy (Sep 29, 2008)

4weightfanatic said:


> I've wondered about guys that dive down to snags to release a lure - too bad if a treble sinks in deep it's rip it or drown I reckon. Pat.


Yep, my sentiments exactly. My policy is pull like crazy and if nothing breaks then cut it off. Even the doctor's bill isn't worth the piece of plastic you hope to recover.


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

Ironbar said:


> Musty said:
> 
> 
> > If it looks like its about to get messy you ABORT, simple. Going overboard shouldnt happen let alone dragged under!
> ...


"I have never heard that anyone got dragged overboard or even underwater from his kayak by a fish. That is a virtually impossible scenario."

I disagree. I believe it is highly possible.


Breambo said:


> Ive seen a bloke get pulled off his kayak and to the bottom wearing a pdf by a 15kg+ kingfish on the gaff shot, he didnt let go because it was a good fish and eventually resurfaced.
> So if you were tangled or hooked and the fish big enough you could easily be dragged to death.


Watch how close Nico went recently to a capsize....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zd40moq ... detailpage). Now this was a big fish, but you could also go anytime from a bang by a wave, shark, turtle, seal or dugong.



Barrabundy said:


> 4weightfanatic said:
> 
> 
> > I've wondered about guys that dive down to snags to release a lure - too bad if a treble sinks in deep it's rip it or drown I reckon. Pat.
> ...


 But even breaking off a snag could do you in, straight over the other side when it snaps.

Whatever way, a second later, you're off the yak, and likely to have rods overboard, rod leashes and lines anywhere, and one line may be heavily loaded by a decent fish. The paddle leash, or any of the above, could well be around your neck, fingers or wrist. You could have a hook in you from the unloaded line. You could be in surf, strongish wind, or current.....plenty of possible scenarios for big trouble. If it's a fish, you can't abort if you have line entanglement, cause you're being towed or otherwise trapped. This is a serious situation immediately, and could easily be fatal, unless you can and do act quickly. Hence the recommendation for a safety knife.

Also, I'm going to preempt "but I don't target big fish!" by saying this...I've twice been trolling a 10 - 14 cm lure when hit by fish that I estimate to have been over 50 kg, maybe over 100 kg (see Paulo's 78 kg Marlin). One hundred, two hundred metres of line gone in seconds. I was trolling with an Alvey 650 bolted to the deck, and venture to say that with a rod in a holder, with some drag on, I could have been over. I cut one, and the other time the (50 lb) line broke. Both of these instances were in an area where the usual catch was an 80 - 90 cm spotted mac or spanyid. Also in the past year alone, a fishing companion was fishing in 5 metres depth of water where the common catch is small to medium snapper, and a large cobia picked up his 4" SP and took off, towing him 8 kms seawards. He also recently hooked a 1.1 metre longtail tuna to 14.5 kg, again on a small soft plastic. So big fish can hit anything anytime. You don't have be targetting big fish or in blue water to get a massive strike and destabilize or tip you.

"I wouldn't worry about things like this." 
Maybe you should be worrying.  I recomend you try some deliberate capsizes with a line or two out. Practice with a buddy or two in close proximity. Make it in fresh water if worried about a reel dunking. To make the situation realistic, try 2 rods, which many of us troll with. Be fully kitted, lip grips etc., as even short tethers/leashes can end up in some ugly messes involving body bits. This can also be a good practice for getting back on, and if you haven't practiced this a few times you may be in for a shock. :shock: While a little off topic, further problems arise when separated from your yak, especially when it is windy. Try swimming in your PFD for your yak in windy conditions (controlled situation first). See...viewtopic.php?f=9&t=50502&p=525835&hilit=SE+Qld%3A+Safety+Day#p525835
Note particularly the last few posts, that reveal how hard it is to swim for your yak in light winds, and to re-enter. Over 10 - 12 knots and you've probably lost your yak. And this practice day was all without gear or entanglements!

I encourage you to accept these scenarios 'as possible' (the accounts are true), and then practice capsizes and re-entries. Then, and only then, will you have the plan and the skills you require, and then you " wouldn't worry about things like this."  

Wishing you all the thrills of a big hookup some time soon.

Cheers

Trevor


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## Ironbar (Apr 7, 2008)

kayakone said:


> Ironbar said:
> 
> 
> > Musty said:
> ...


If it is so highly possible the why hasn't it happened more often??
Where is the evidence that people have been pulled out of their kayak by a fish?

What's the problem with targeting and or catching big fish? There's quite a few people on this forum that have caught big fish and never had any problem in doing so. You sound like every time someone hooks up on a big fish it could end up in a big drama. People have caught tuna, cobia and mackerel over 20kg and didn't have any dramas let alone been destabilized or tipped in the water.

I am still not worrying despite whatever you say here. If I worry about everything that can go wrong offshore I be better off staying at home playing chess.

Your whole reply on this matter sounds a bit over the top and too dramatical to me.

P.S. I had the thrills of big hookups, I know what it's like.


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

Ironbar

Are you saying Nico's experience wasn't close to a capsize? Earlier in this thread others have verified massive pressure is possible. Some good advice has been offered.

Maybe we should wait to see if anyone else chips in with stories of problems (with stability or otherwise) on big hookups?

My apologies to you if you thought I implied you haven't had big hookups. That was not intended. What was intended was that things can quickly go to sh*t and rapidly escalate, which I understand to be the original general idea behind this thread.

Cheers

Trevor.


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## eagle4031 (Jan 29, 2010)

kayakone said:


> things can quickly go to sh*t and rapidly escalate, which I understand to be the original general idea behind this thread.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Trevor.


yep precisely


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## Ironbar (Apr 7, 2008)

kayakone said:


> Ironbar
> 
> Are you saying Nico's experience wasn't close to a capsize? Earlier in this thread others have verified massive pressure is possible. Some good advice has been offered.
> 
> ...


I haven't watched Nico's experience. You are saying "close to a capsize". Are we now talking about close to a capsize or actually capsizing, dragged in the water ?? All I'm saying is that offshore if you got a hookup with your rod and reel a fish no matter which one will not be able to pull you into the water, unless someone was in a totally unstable kayak and shouldn't been there in the first place. Before a fish could pull you in the water you would either let go of the rod or most likely your line will break.

_Maybe we should wait to see if anyone else chips in with stories of problems (with stability or otherwise) on big hookups? _

That's a good idea. But in the three and a half years that I'm a member of this forum I have never heard of any significant problems and there have been many big catches reported. I have never heard that anyone has been dragged by a fish into the water.
However there could be the remote possibility that someone could end up in the water while landing the fish. If you got the fish alongside the kayak and try to gaff it or tailgrab it and by doing so lean over a bit too far to the side or at the very same time a rogue wave hits you sideways you could lose balance or the kayak could tip sideways and the person could end up in the water. But I think it would be a very very rare incident to happen.

_My apologies to you if you thought I implied you haven't had big hookups. That was not intended. What was intended was that things can quickly go to sh*t and rapidly escalate, which I understand to be the original general idea behind this thread._

You don't need to apologise but it's nice anyway.
I agree that things can quickly go to shit and get worse but I understood that the original post was that while kayak fishing a fish can drag you to death or at least pull you out of your kayak and with that I cannot agree.


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## Ironbar (Apr 7, 2008)

gonetroppo said:


> I recently saw an episode of River Monsters where they were catching huge catfish out of canoes in a remote jungle village. The locals told a story of one fisherman trying to pull one of these monsters into the canoe when he got a hook stuck in his hand and was pulled overboard by the fish, which then dragged him down and drowned him.
> It kinda freaked me out a little as I realised that this could certainly happen fishing from the yak. Anyone had an experince similar to this?


I've seen it too. River Monsters is one of my favourite shows.
It won't happen while fishing from your yak unless you stand up while fishing and you have about 50 exposed hooks on a long handline lying all over the kayak and one of those hooks ends up deep in your arm at the same time you try hauling in a huge catfish and you end up in the river with the hook in your arm and a huge catfish on the other end of the line which is dragging you under.
The way those guys fish is very unsafe, an accident waiting to happen, but they don't know of any other way or haven't got the equipment of fishing more safer.


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## gonetroppo (Jan 29, 2011)

Its not that its a common drama, just that it can happen. Take the 1m reef shark I caught today, hes only a little fella but i tell ya what he had some pull, If i got a trebble in my hand while trying to get the lure back and he took off id be in trouble, sure he has to fight against 70kg of drag, but it would still make things interesting! and the knife wouldn't do much unless I could stick him, even then id have 5kg of shark bling on my hand :lol:


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## remora101 (Sep 6, 2008)

kayakone said:


> Lapse said:
> 
> 
> > dont tether yourself to the rod, or leave any exposed hooks that you can hook yourself onto.
> ...


I have one of those in my harness when I kitesurf - if anything ever happens and the kite starts dragging me off downwind it's easily accessible and does the job.

Whatever you use you need to make sure its in a convenient place that's easy to find in "panic" mode..


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## si75 (Feb 26, 2008)

occy said:


> SharkNett said:
> 
> 
> > There is an account from Sydney Harbour where a guy decided to fish heavy gear and harness from a wharf to stop a resident cod. Pars of harness etc were eventually brought up by a trawler many years later.
> ...


Love that story - Im fairly sure it has been embellished somewhat over the years:-

http://www.akff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15474


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## bombora (Mar 8, 2006)

si75 said:


> occy said:
> 
> 
> > SharkNett said:
> ...


Actually investigated this great yarn a while ago. It's BS. Still a great story.


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## goanywhere (Feb 22, 2011)

Like alot of dangers, these situations might be rare, but like fire drills, if you are prepared and an event like this happens you will be one of those who can live to tell (and embellish) the story. I must admit I haven't really given much thought to being towed under by a big fish, but I will certainly look at my gear and setup and take some measures. I had a close call one day testing a kayak sail, and capsised. I had to paddle back a few hundred metres into a strong onshore wind that nearly exhausted me, and I had to think about what would have happened if I hadn't have made it.

We can get a bit blase about the dangers of kayaking in the ocean and hearing these kinds of stories should serve to keep us on our toes and aware of the potential dangers.


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## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

What about this scenario - your winding in 50lb line with a livey attached then you have a malfunction tangle. While you deal with this the current pushes the livey behind you and to the otherside of the yak, at the same time one of the tangles drops a half hitch around your pfd buckle and the livey is taken by a big fish or shark your in trouble. Unlikely for someone experienced but for a novice I think its for sure possible. Why I think this is because it happened to me minus the hit from the big fish and I can tell you i was thinking about that livey the whole time I was sorting out the mess I was in.


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## Ironbar (Apr 7, 2008)

Breambo said:


> Why I think this is because it happened to me minus the hit from the big fish and I can tell you i was thinking about that livey the whole time I was sorting out the mess I was in.


I bet you were.

But you would have had your knife ready to cut the line as soon as the livey is taken by a fish??


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## yakfly (Jun 8, 2006)

Mum lost a cousin a few years ago in Samoa when he was trolling with a 100lb handline and was dragged overboard when the 
line caught around his foot after a strike by what may have been one of the local GTs that haunt the edge of the reef.At first all they found 
was the outrigger canoe he was fishing out of then the body washed a few days later.


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## mattmoki (Aug 4, 2009)

yakfly said:


> Mum lost a cousin a few years ago in Samoa when he was trolling with a 100lb handline and was dragged overboard when the
> line caught around his foot after a strike by what may have been one of the local GTs that haunt the edge of the reef.


very sorry to hear that yakfly.

I have fished that way in Tokelau - 2 days by freighter to the north of Samoa. We dangled heavy handlines from a dugout and locked them off against a big cleat when we hooked up. The fish wouls swim round in big circles until knackered, then it was hauled inboard. Mostly some kind of tuna/albacore around 1 - 1.5m in length. One day my host & his mate came in with a swordfish - here's a shot of the happy hunters!


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## grant ashwell (Apr 24, 2007)

I reckon that anything is possible BUT highly unlikely. I've come close to tipping a few times. Once when the line went around the down rigger and nearly tipped me when the cobia took off. Another time I had a marlin close to the yak and put the rod in the holder so I could get the camera out and take some pics. The fish took off and the leverage nearly tipped me. It has also been close in rough water with fish to the side. As for dying on the job, for me it is more likely that the line accidentally loops around a finger (which it does a bit running 2 lines and preferring to hold the line) and loosing a digit if a big fish takes the bait at the wrong time. I cannot think of how a fish might tow me off and down to the depths. Perhaps a neck wrap..? It is not uncommon for me to loose the gaff-or let it go if the fish takes off. In the early days I tethered the gaff with a light zip tie but now prefer to just let go in case the tie doesn't break. I guess one could debate all sorts of unlikely but possible events. Stuff like lightning, submarines surfacing, hit by a mako or dolphin and being knocked unconscious, being speared by a marlin--now that's a real possibility and I have had to duck at least twice that I can remember, being run over--I have had experience with this or fainting and drowning. As for me, I carry scissors attached to my jacket and don't worry about this type of scenario as there are far more important safety issues. Oh, I also don't think that taking a wrap on a fish is a bright idea on a yak. It is fine on the boat deck with support and a glove but not when yakking. My off the top of the head thoughts which I am happy to reconsider if someone presents an option that I am unaware of..I would hope that I constantly re-evaluate risks as they change from yak to yak, target fish and location etc. This turned into a bloody short story.

Grant


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## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

grant ashwell said:


> This turned into a bloody short story.


Yes! But at least it's readable.

A lungful of seawater could do some damage. A yakker once splashed a paddle full of water into my face while I was yelling at him because he crossed my line. That could have turned quite nasty if I didn't shut my mouth in time.


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## yakfly (Jun 8, 2006)

great posts matt and grant
as my old man who was an ex-pro dory fisherman used to tell me
when I first started fishing seriously out of the yak " son no fish is worth losing your life over"
and to quote the great philospher Daffy duck "he who runs away today lives to run away another day"


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## eagle4031 (Jan 29, 2010)

bombora said:


> Actually investigated this great yarn a while ago. It's BS. Still a great story.


never let the truth get in the way of a great story


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

We tend to view these things from the comfort of very stable SOTs. Given that I am playing with a narrow SIK as my prefered big fish platform, this issue is very definitely part of my thinking. As is being rolled over, upside in the water with braid under tension running at close to throat location. Yikes!

Trev, what are your thoughts on a fishing rod roll? Seems to me if I go over it's pretty likely that I won't have a paddle in my hands. :shock:


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## Beekeeper (Aug 20, 2011)

dru said:


> Trev, what are your thoughts on a fishing rod roll? Seems to me if I go over it's pretty likely that I won't have a paddle in my hands. :shock:


Dru... a fast reel in and an accurate upward cast to a sky-hook, quick jerk and you're back up! no probs! Are there any sky-hooks in your immediate area???
Jimbo


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## Zed (Sep 18, 2006)

Musty said:


> who the hells catching fish so large off their yaks that if the hook impaled your hand u would be dragged under water and drowned?
> Musty


Um, me.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

Beekeeper said:


> dru said:
> 
> 
> > Trev, what are your thoughts on a fishing rod roll? Seems to me if I go over it's pretty likely that I won't have a paddle in my hands. :shock:
> ...


Ok then, two options, 1 sky hook, 2 fishing rod roll. It's all good. Coach! Coach! I've got a plan B!


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## Yak4ever (Nov 19, 2010)

A friend of mine told me of his encounter with a Bara a couple of weeks ago which nearly drowned him, he and some friends were night fishing in kayaks in a dam, he was trawling two lines with hard body lures. He had 20kg braid and 60kg mono leader, a strike lead to some excitement, during the fight the fish picked up the other line which did not concern the fisherman as he was in open water. The fish tired and was sitting quietly next to the kayak so he reach his hand out and over the Bara to belly lift the fish into the Yak and surprise surprise the fish burst into life again darting down and forward. The problem was the other line still had a crank bait with large very sharp treble hooks and was tangled to the fish, as the fish lurched forward it slammed a treble into his fingers, 2 hooks, 2 fingers And he is still leaning over to lift the fish! In a split second he was in the water being pulled under, his clothing and shoes did not suit swimming and he could not find the inflation tag for his jacket. He now felt sure the fish was going to drown him, shear adrenalin kicked in and he ripped the hooks out of his fingers tearing 1 finger nail in the process!!!!! Once his friends came to his aid and settled things down they recovered the rod and fish was still on, it was only 90cm and it nearly drown this 6ft 6 man, cost him some rods and tackle boxes, Yes, there were lots of small things being done wrong and they all came together and ........

Be warned! he was lucky to learn some very important lessons.


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## Beekeeper (Aug 20, 2011)

Yak4ever said:


> it slammed a treble into his fingers, 2 hooks, 2 fingers And he is still leaning over to lift the fish! In a split second he was in the water being pulled under, his clothing and shoes did not suit swimming and he could not find the inflation tag for his jacket. He now felt sure the fish was going to drown him


Boy! Didn't that good session turn to crap quickly!

Although it shows somebody's misfortune, I'm pleased to see it in this thread. K1 especially has been throwing "what ifs" up, and those who believe they're 10ft tall and bullet-proof have been pooh-poohing them at will.

This bloke was extremely lucky to have been able to rip trebles out of fingers (both for Christ's sake) thus saving his own life! Anybody who's ever impaled themselves on hooks will know just what an effort that would have been... especially under water being dragged along by a 3ft fish!

Pulling on them usually buries them deeper!

Absolutely amazing! Most yakkers would have drowned!........ Ugh!

Jimbo


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## avayak (May 23, 2007)

Being caught up would be the worst case senario. Avoid double hooks on heavier tackle. Plenty of game fish deckies have gone over the side because of the second hook. It's too easy to wear the second hook when a fish goes balistic yakside. Even jig caught small kings with double assist hooks can do some damage.
Last year returning from Lord Howe my brother got caught on the second hook of a skirted lure with a 40kg yellowfin on the other end. Ouch!


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

dru said:


> We tend to view these things from the comfort of very stable SOTs. Given that I am playing with a narrow SIK as my prefered big fish platform, this issue is very definitely part of my thinking. As is being rolled over, upside in the water with braid under tension running at close to throat location. Yikes!
> 
> Trev, what are your thoughts on a fishing rod roll? Seems to me if I go over it's pretty likely that I won't have a paddle in my hands. :shock:


"..what are your thoughts on a fishing rod roll?"

Dru, were you asking me?

If so, ugggh! And definitely "Yikes". Rods and capsizes? Let me get a very strong drink first! I shudder to think of the trouble you could be in. Unthinkable.

I used to do a fair bit of trolling in a sea kayak in breaking surf. I have 2 X Sit In Kayaks (SIK), and recently a SOT, all fitted with Alvey 650 BC's, lever drag. This is a big reliable surf reel I have filled with 40 - 50 lb Platypus Platinum mono line, with flourocarbon leader. Lever drag, so you can stop almost anything (I once caught a 20kg Papuan - aka Brassy Trevally on it...30 minute batle which flattened big swivels, and towed the SIK 2 km). Following pics show Alvey set-up:










You can troll, drift or bottom fish with it (paternoster or terminal hook), in any weather or sea state, with both hands on the paddle most of the time. Spanyids, spotty macs, some reef species, including some decent coral trout (biggest about 6 kg). I scored a 77 cm jew on it in 27 - 35 knot seas at Redcliffe months ago. Mountainous waves for Redcliffe, and my very first jew there, and it decides to make things even more interesting by taking a HB in big waves with the tops breaking and a wind trying to tear the paddle from my hands. Max paddle speed into wind at the time was 1km/hr. I think a rod would be impossible in these conditions. There is no risk of capsize with this setup, as the centre of gravity, with the reels bolted to the deck, is very low.

In breaking surf is where this set-up really comes into it's own. Also trolling side on to waves just inside a sandbar as the whitewater comes over the bar It is amazing how many tailor (in this area) can be caught in such rough conditions. Even surfing back in..several hook-ups while surfing a wave.

I have been rolled at least twice while trolling through or parallel to the surf break. I think it is more luck than good management that I haven't been horribly tangled while playing these games. One factor in favour of the Alvey's is that the trolling lines are touching the sides of the yak, and in a roll are more or less out of the arc of the recovery paddle stroke to roll back upright. However some will undoubtedly say that trolling in the surf zone is dangerous...... and I will agree with them. 
On one occasion, in up to 0.8 metre of whitewater, I hooked a 4 lb tailor and got him 3-4 m from the yak... brace for another wave impact... reel him in and get a finger through the gills, and bang...over! A dodgy roll (still holding the fish), and I could de-hook him, break the neck, and place it in the backpack before another wave hit, just as another greenback hit on the other lure. More fun and games! [The highest score ever was 13 tailor (full 40 litre backpack) in 40 minutes, all inside the main outer bar, which was breaking at about 1.5 metres. This was hilarious, as no stink boats could get anywhere near the school.]

To answer your question, I think a rod could complicate things even more, in that it will be overboard, and even more risk of entanglement now with line, leash and rod , not to mention increasing the difficulty of the recovery roll.
I might be living dangerously, but I would advise stowing or securing your rods in the surf zone.
When it's rough, my vote is forget the rods...too much leverage, too higher a risk of entanglement.

Trevor


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

Ha ha ha ha ha! Trevor, experience speaks through. I can just see the thinking during set up, "I wonder if...", the testing, return to the beach "nope idiot idea", but I need to get closer to gutters. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I know a number of sea kayak paddlers using various hand line systems not unlike your setup here. I like angling.  but I do back off on sea conditions much earlier fishing than when I am just paddling, and I paddle distance to avoid a surf launch.

For anyone reading who is interested but doesn't get the issue: many SIKs are designed for easy edging (tilting the yak to steer it), works well with a paddle in your hand, but replace the paddle with a fishing rod and "easy edge" means "disposition to turn upside-down". Just as you hook up. With a spray deck (skirt) you are locked in not just falling off like a SOT.


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

Not quite, but I use very long nose pliers when retrieving my rapala from the tail of a sharky these days........those bloody hooks go right through the nail....ouch!.....and the bugger had a chew on me paddle while I disengage him.


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