# Kingy Rod?



## JT (May 25, 2006)

gra said:


> I am but a novice, albeit very handsome and virile.
> 
> Gra


Congratulations on the positive features Gra. Enviable and not qualities shared by any of the AKFF members I have met to date :lol:

Mate you should be able to land Kingies on a rod quite a bit less capable than 30 to 50lb braid unless they are beasts. This would also offer you a little more whip to cast with. Best of both worlds. In my experience the groin/abdominal wall can give way before one's rod is really tested to the limit 8) :?

JT


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Hey Gra

Ive just gone through this - had a look at several options - went with a Nitro Godzilla 15kg spin stick. Its chunky 7 foot nice tip whippy - i use it to chuck big stick baits weighted - although she'll be right for poppers - Hbs and metal sices. The butt is fat like a boat rod - but overall she's light ish - I had no problem casting a placcie the same distance as my Nitro Magnum Butt - I'm not good with judging distance but I would say 25 - 30 meters (dont quote me on that) enough distance for me to get it where I want. I got the rod for 239 bucks which is great rrp 300. I like the 60 buck warranty with it - no questions asked. Ive been running 30lb braid 60 leader. My drag on the reel is rated to 15kg

I went to another shop prior to to buying this and I was just about to post a question about this and you might be able to help . I told the guy in the shop about what I needed it for and he said i could get a rod custom built on a Pac Comps MT 699 FX - he said this would be good and whippy enough and very hard to break rated to 10kg. Ive googled this and couldnt find anything - so this might help you as an alternative - if you find any info on this please tell - is that a v good price for a hand built rod ???

Heres the kind of lure I'm chucking

Woppie


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Also see - Heavy Duty Plastics Rod - on this forum - my post from last week - several suggestions there


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

After a couple of skunkings on small sps I've been thinking about this. I want a rod that can handle 5kg drag (would be using 30lb braid) and that can flick a 4" or 5" minnow sp on a 1/8oz jig - just weighed 5 and they were 48g so 10g casting weight. I don't like long rods, but accept that it would have to be around 7' to have a whippy tip and a king/red fighting butt


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## fishyman (Nov 27, 2007)

to make a rod like that id say to keep the weight down build a split grip some people like em some dont but it saves weight and adds sensitivity.

i think 30-50lb braid is a bit much fo kingies ive never caught one but i think its a bit much unless your chasing the realy big ones.

Tom


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## wigg (Jan 6, 2007)

Hi Gra

I appreciate you efforts.
Maybe you are right and the Nitro rods are as close as we will get to the ideal rod.
Woppie has just bought a Godzilla and the Big Maaarn picked his up today.
I am waiting with baited breath on a full report after they put it thru its paces.
I think my Magnum will do a great job on the snapper as well.
I did however stumble across the 2008 US Shimano catalogue.
There is some very nice rods in that collection.
I just love new toys.
Hardware stores and tackle shops chew up almost all of my cunning kick.hahahaha.

Cheers

Wigg


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## wigg (Jan 6, 2007)

Hi Tom
The reason Peril and I need to go a bit heavy is because were we fish the water is only 12 -15 metres deep and you need to turn the fish fairly quickly otherwise you get smoked.

Cheers

Wigg


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Gra I have the Magnum Butt and i love it .... and it handles rats well ... for the glory of the Meter + king i think it will be under gunned though !!!!! Please bare in mind though my conditions / expectations - I fish in reefy country so I really need to turn the head soon and get it away from any cover...... The Viper in the nitro range is the next one up from The Magnum B - rated to 8kg I think so you might consider this - Kinghit has this. I am sure there are several rods out there that will do the job - i have a Penn Spinfisher 750 rated to 10kg that I can flick the same lure with - this rod was free with a reel - and its hauled in the big ones (legal 60s)- so if you want to go budget have a look at these - although its a chunky stick - the Godzilla is also a chunky stick !!! I think if your really chasing bigger hoodlums its impossible to be over gunned - unless the rod is too stiff to cast with that is. I think in your requiremnts aswell is that are the kings feeding on the big placcies that your throwing at them !!! With mine I have found YES - some of the time - but not always. I have the smaller M BUTT as the the lighter rod.

I am no way in league with Nitro just like their gear !!! I also own Loomis, Penn, Ugly stick, Daiwa Heartlands, and Wilson.

Woppie


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

Has anyone checked out the Wilson Live Fibre Texaliums? There is a 7' 8-15kg model they claim has a fast action and they are in the same price bracket as the Nitros.


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## fishyman (Nov 27, 2007)

ahh that explains the need to go heavy.

yeah it still would be possible itd be a good build.


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## fishyman (Nov 27, 2007)

ahh that explains the need to go heavy.

yeah it still would be possible itd be a good build.


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## paulb (Nov 12, 2006)

Hi Peril - I had initially thought the live fibres were a lot more $$$ than the Nitro's, but if they can be bought close to the $250 mark would be well worth looking at. I too am looking for a rod I can use for the majority of fishing, but have the strength to handle something larger on ocaision.

I've caught a 70cm on my pathetic whippy rod (3-5kg light action, bends double with a whiting.....) and a similar size on my 4-8kg rod - both fibreglass rods. In some ways I found the fight more tiring on the stiffer rod - the thing that couldn't hold the fish, was the drag on my reel. I've ordered a Caldia Kix reel - 8kg drag, possibly too light still, but how heavy is it practical to go, in a kayak ? I saw JT's video where he was bordering on capsizing his Outback, with a 10-15kg rod bent 180 degrees - that seemed to be approaching the limits of practicality (what drag JT?).

I would have thought a Nitro Magnum would have been up to the job from a little tryout I had in the shop- but seeing Woppie desiring something stronger, makes me wonder. I'll definately be looking at the Viper, but will check out the live fibres too (8-15kg seems to cover a lot of ground).

End of the day, as long as I don't have to worry about the rod snapping, I'm willing to go as light as possible - and believe me I've tried to snap both my fibreglass rods, so that I had an excuse to buy a new one, but they're tough old boots.........


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## SharkNett (Feb 20, 2006)

Wopfish mentioned a Pac Comp blank.

May be able to find it on thier webiste. http://www.anglerpacific.com/

Got a couple of rods built on thier blanks and can't fault them.

Rob.


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## Dave73 (Dec 3, 2006)

I always like a good kingy thread :lol:

If anyone is keen on targeting kings they should expect plenty of feisty rats and then some bruisers thrown in. Yes rats are caught on nice light flick sticks which are the usual fare for kayaks. But for when you come across the middleweights and up I believe a heavier rod is a must. There is no perfect do it all outfit that can throw light plastics to big metals.

But when I gear up I look at what facts I have control over, eg, I know my kayak as the vehicle I'm fishing in, I know the line class (in this case 30lb) and drag setting, and I know what lure or bait I'm using. The only variable I dont know is the size of the fish which may take it. I fish to near maximum of my limit, anything beyond that I have no control over.

Also casting max distance isnt a huge issue for us (but I'm not one for chasing bait boils) the fish are around anyway and often deeper for the bigger ones. (Wedding Cake island as an example)

My 2 heavier outfits are a Saltist jig rod (trolling, bait fishing) and Nitro Godzilla (large plastics, anything else)
Look at what the guys up Nth NSW and SEQLD can get into using T Curve jig rods etc.
T-Curves, Monster Mesh, Pac Comp, Live Fibre Tex would all be suitable and you really appreciate a heavier rod on the bigger 
fish you are targeting. 8) 
For casting to rats use your lighter outfit.

Good luck choosing  
Cheers Dave


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## JT (May 25, 2006)

paulb said:


> I saw JT's video where he was bordering on capsizing his Outback, with a 10-15kg rod bent 180 degrees - that seemed to be approaching the limits of practicality (what drag JT?). quote]
> 
> Mate, it was a 8 to 10 kg rod with a Shimano Speros 8000FA reel, 30lb braid. The reel has 10kg drag which was wound all the way up. My concern wasn't so much capasizing the Outback but being pulled over the side or God forbid loosing my new Speros reel :shock:
> 
> JT


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## polylureosis (Jul 24, 2006)

JT said:


> The reel has 10kg drag which was wound all the way up. My concern wasn't so much capasizing the Outback but being pulled over the side or God forbid loosing my new Speros reel :shock:
> 
> JT


Hi JT,

How much more drag, if any, do you realistically think you could handle before something gave - Like....?


You drop the reel

You tip the yak

You get pulled into the drink

Ash


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Errr Polylureosis ......

Something did give mate - JTs nut sack !!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

BWhahahahahahahahahaha ------------- ooops sorry JT ........... :lol:


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## JT (May 25, 2006)

polylureosis said:


> JT said:
> 
> 
> > The reel has 10kg drag which was wound all the way up. My concern wasn't so much capasizing the Outback but being pulled over the side or God forbid loosing my new Speros reel :shock:
> ...


Hi Ash, Mate that is very hard to say. I think another 2 to 3 Kilos of drag would have seen me maxed out. 10 kg drag wound up and line still going out albeit slowly. I personally would have tried to grab the knife that sat next to me and cut the line. If I couldn't do that the rod would have gone over the side. I was lieing back and over the side a bit and could feel my overly cushioned ass sliding on the seat to the edge being pulled down. Had I gone too much more over I would have gone over the side for sure and once I had hit the water loosened the drag right off and tried to salvage the rod by getting back onto the yak quick smart and then cutting the line (that's the theory anyway :? ). I doubt the Outback would have flipped.

In saying all that (despite SBD kindly claiming that I am buff) I am not the biggest or most powerful guy you have ever met. I am sure that a lot of you blokes could have handled another couple of kgs of drag. As Redpheonix and DaveyG will, I am sure tell you, that I was well and truly having my ass kicked by that fish and it was very much a one way fight. I was holding on for dear life. In hindsight I a). should have had my drag up all the way from the outset rather than at 6 to 8 kilos, and b). carefully opened the bail arm once reefed in order to wait until he ran again, and c). eaten my weetbix for breakfast, and d). worn a steel groin guard (patent pending and soon available exclsuively to AKFF members).

JT


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

JT said:


> As Redpheonix and DaveyG will, I am sure tell you, that I was well and truly having my ass kicked by that fish and it was very much a one way fight.


The fact is that John hooked a tiny yakka that took his line under a rockshelf. He then spent the next 5 minutes trying to lift the rockshelf up off the bottom of the ocean while grunting like a mating moose (Redphoenix and I didn't dare tell him that he was snagged)...

The fact that he busted a nut trying to lift up a snag makes it even more incredibly funny....


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

JT your a legend mate !!! 

Last week i had a 65cm model rip the rod and reel straight out of my hands !!! I wasnt really paying attention but I certainly wasnt holding it like a lettice leaf !!! I can see the dilema - give a bit of slack on the drag and tighten up during the fight - but you could get reefed if your in that country OR start at fighting drag and hold on for your life - which has its inherant problems as experienced by JT. Good on you JT though for going in hard !!!!! I think thats the way to go although we might need to prepare ourselves - hence my nut protector post. I do find that having the butt in the groin gives me the leverage I need - my left shoulder was dislocated many years ago and is still a bit weak - so its not that great at the under the arm approach. Another thing I'm also concerned about is high sticking the rod aswell as its natural to try and pull the rod back from the water line and when the fish is closer in on a 7 foot rod to try and guide the fish close I often high stick it - if the bugger then decides to run again I could end up snapping the rod - look it hasnt happened yet but its something I'm learning about in my technique or lack of 

Just my 2 cents worth Woppie


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## JT (May 25, 2006)

Davey G said:


> JT said:
> 
> 
> > The fact that he busted a nut trying to lift up a snag makes it even more incredibly funny....


 :? :? :?

JT


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

----

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## paulb (Nov 12, 2006)

The local tackle shop pointed out the inherent dilema with trying to have a rod with a flicky tip, plus strength below for the kingie - along the lines of if the rod is too vertical (in the rod holder) when a large kingie strikes, its likely to snap a graphite type rod (I was looking at the Monster Mesh's at the time, which did look nice).
I'm a notorious 'high sticker" - I don't knwo how else to pull the fish towards the side of the yak so I can grab them. My rods to date are of a bendy fibreglass nature and don't seem to care how I use them. 
I ended up being steered towards a Silstar Crystal Blue Power Tip (some heavy offshore model). Felt quite light, with a really long grip - probably no good for flicking plastics & I'm not sure if such a long butt is practical.
So I'm back to square 1. Maybe I just need to go out fishing and spend less time thinking about going fishing  
I'd be interested in how you go gra!


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## Dave73 (Dec 3, 2006)

paulb said:


> I ended up being steered towards a Silstar Crystal Blue Power Tip (some heavy offshore model).


If its the CB601j (from memory) jigging rod, available in overhead or spin, then these are supposedly a very good rod and stand up well to tough kings. I was going to order one to look at but then got my Saltist at the time.



paulb said:


> I'm a notorious 'high sticker" - I don't knwo how else to pull the fish towards the side of the yak so I can grab them.


Paul, go for a softer parabolic style rod. "Fast action" rods work the angler more and give the fish more leverage. The new generation of top gear distribute the load further along the blank. Also try and stay with a shorter rod to bring in it closer to the yak. If you have to high stick it, then back the drag off to really light for safety.

 Dave


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

paulb said:


> The local tackle shop pointed out the inherent dilema with trying to have a rod with a flicky tip, plus strength below for the kingie - along the lines of if the rod is too vertical (in the rod holder) when a large kingie strikes, its likely to snap a graphite type rod (I was looking at the Monster Mesh's at the time, which did look nice).


We're talking about cast and retrieve of sps so the rod should be in the angler's hands upon strike. Certainly a risk if trolling. Just have to be careful not to leave the placcie in the water when putting the rod in the rod holder!


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Hey Paul B

like I said in my post on this thread i too am aware of my high sticking - but no snaps yet on my graphites!!! In fact Ive never snapped a rod during a fight !!! Even If i did Ive got the warranty of $60 no questions asked ......... so to be sure to be sure - yup a fibreglass rod will probably be more durable - but saying that we are not fishing from the HARD rocks of KNOCKS etc etc. So as long as you take good care in your yak i think its hard to break the graphite - although my buddy did over extend his tip on his brand new raider and snapped it - luckily shimano replaced it no probs - he pulled it back at a funny angle or maybe there was a fault. I can cast the jigs on my Monster MESH some distance but you'd be really hard pushed to get a placcie out with it. Also have a look at Ugly stick Golds - I have one and used it in Samoa - its ok to cast (big placcies) with and heavier than the Godzilla but certainly up to the task (10 - 15 kg ) I also jigged with it. I cant go past the NITROs though - at the price Ive been paying - plus the warranty but really more to the point I love the Magnum Butt - have yet to fully experience the Godzilla but will be soon !!!!

Woppie

Ps next time we are out - you can play with the ZILLA!!!


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

Dick, am keen to know how little weight can be cast with the godzilla. Can it flick 10g 15-20m?


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## water_baby (Oct 26, 2005)

ok, another opinion for the bowl.

for flicking plastic, say, less than 10-20g you will need either length or 'whip' (or both). im a fan personally of length, but not too much whip at all for fighting bigger fish (5-15kg) and especially for much bigger fish (15+kg). braid also helps as we know, and the shape of the plastic.

cast and retrieve of little plastics/HBs needs to be able to be cast - thats inherent in the style of fishing. but if you are paddling after a school or boil and then casting, you shouldnt need to cast much over 10-15metres, maybe 20m.

as stated im a fan of a more solid rod for this particular application, and just had a Calstar GF700H made up for me (SiC guides) and will be giving it a crack Friday night on (hopefully)the local shark population from a rockwall (with a Spheros 14000, drag upgrade, 50lb braid). This rod is rated to PE8, and for something that vaguely resembles a broomstick in my rod-rack, it bends an amazingly long way under load.

SO, match the rod to the application. you wouldnt use a broomstick to catch bream, so you wouldnt use a bream rod for BIG kingies (even though some of you are!). it also depends on the depth you are fishing. deep water, fish near surface you could get away with a whippier, lighter rod (like casting to a boil) but if they are down deep, i wouldnt use anything less than 30-50lb and something i can keep them away from the reef with, otherwise you are not fishing, you are losing :lol: :lol:

anyway thats the end of my ideas at the minute. if anyone is after a livebait rod, trolling or jigging/popping, i recommend the Calstar GF700H. it rocks.

and i reckon even with this setup, i could cast a 15g flickbait 15metres to a boil. its not THAT hard. if you want to cast further, change rod. too many decisions, and no perfect rod for all applications. looks like we all need to get out to a tackle store and get a selection of rods.... what a shame :shock: 8) 8) :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

**edit** and like woppie says below, i would not probably use anything less than and ounce 28g anyhow. if i want to catch bigguns, anyway ***


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Hey Dave / Peril

Not sure mate - I do not have my weighted slugs close at hand - but probably not likely - thats a small lure ..... here is exactly what I got the rod for and it handles these nicely... the rod is chunky mate at that rating 15 kg its no wonder stick ie light and super whippy - but it was one of the better rods I looked at with a tip to do the job at the right price. I could have had a custom build for $220 which sounded super cheap but to 10kg. Then there were other rods recommended to me but were 400 - 500 bucks .........

I hope this is of some help


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## camel (Oct 4, 2005)

G'day all

Lamiglas have a huge range of blanks, with many that will fit the bill. Of special interest to us is the kayak range of blanks especially for this application, as are a number of their Inshore and saltwater ranges.

http://shop.mudhole.com/Shop-Our-Catalog/Kayak-Series

Cheers

Anthony


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Just checked the lamiglas site and they say 'all the blanks here for you and anything heavier well you'll just get towed" but thats the bloody point !!! We all want to get towed !! So many people miss this point about kayak fishing - the tow is part of the fun or as our American friends would say the bloody sleigh ride - BRING IT ON !!!! Many times in tackle shops the guys say awwwww ya dont want that maate !!!! yull get towwedd round..... - OF COURSE I WANT TO GET TOWED ROUND !!!!!!

GIVE ME A TOW !!!!!! NOW !!!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

Had a look at some of the St Croix blanks, which seem to have pretty good specs. However some blanks were labelled as being either spinning or casting. I thought you decided that by putting on the seat and guides. What makes a blank be particular to the reel type?


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## camel (Oct 4, 2005)

You can get towed on 3kg tackle. Its all good fun. I wouldn't like to fish much more than 10kg myself. You'll get towed plenty with any of those kayak blanks. I haven't fished anything heavier than 8kg from a kayak but I'd imagine the risk of capsize would go up pretty high with some of the tackle we're talking about. 
Anyone out there regularly fish offshore from their yak with really high drag settings? I'd love to know whether it ever feels dodgy.


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## paulb (Nov 12, 2006)

_"Many times in tackle shops the guys say awwwww ya dont want that maate !!!! yull get towwedd round..... - OF COURSE I WANT TO GET TOWED ROUND !!!!!!"_

Kingies unfortunately seem to prefer towing you straight down - not around. I reckon with any other 'fair' fighting fish, it would be a much easier choice, (though I've yet to catch a big snapper....). Took another look at the Viper and Magnums today and must admit they feel really nice and strong. Woppie or Wigg, go land a 90cm plus kingie on your Magnums & that'll settle my indecision :lol:


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## wigg (Jan 6, 2007)

Hi Paul

I love my Magnum
I reckon I can land am monster king but not at Longy.
The water depth puts it too much in the fishs favour.
30 metres plus i back myself as a chance.
I am still trying new things at Longy
Mind you I think I have a long way to go cause I have been greased on 30lb.
We will see.

Cheers

Wigg


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Paul B

Mate the Magnum Butt for light placcies and Rat Kings for sure - I struggled between a heavier outfit of the Viper or Godzilla. The Viper was too similar to the Magnum - and with the premise that you cannot be too overgunned for a big kingy then the obvious choice was Zilla!!!! You could just go for the Viper - If I were you and your tackle man is helpfull see if you can take your reel down and the placcy and put reel on rod and set it up with the placcie on and then see how it feels. You generally get a feel for it when its set up like that - the balance etc and the whippy tip or not.


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

What happens if you want to cast to a hoodlum..... which most of those rats will end up being at some stage - even 70cm is going to stretch your gear..... I'll be back in a month...... lets see what happens then ......

PS These are not unweighted rigs I'm chucking - these are deep running carolinas....

OH CArolina!!!


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## water_baby (Oct 26, 2005)

quick hijack woppie, where did you get the weight for them? i could drill out a ball sinker, but its not very fluid-dynamic (you know what i mean - wont run nicely underwater..)

or did you pour them yourself?

/end hijack

back to topic, i have to agree with gatesy here, big sticks for big baits and bigger fish, with smaller rods for smaller baits and mid-range fish.

for the record, i call 70 cm a mid-range kingy, some of the recent captures around SA in the last few weeks have been 120-140cm and 30-40kg.

thats a BIG kingy. soon, my preciouses...


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Water baby I bought the bullet heads they come in a blue plastic container with diff weights thats the biggest. You can use a ball sinker no problem I think - I just put a bead between them and the knot makes it a bit safer I think..

Woppie


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

The thing is though - soaking baits is not nearly as much fun as casting and retrieving - even jigging is more fun than just plopping a bait over the side. I really dont think you can get much more closer of the purity of what we do - when we see a boil - get up wind of it - pick a fish and then cast to it - then watch him and his mates all fighting over the lure and the big wake coming towards you - phew my hearts racing just thinking about it - thats even before the fight has begun....

So yes to getting probably bigger fish with big baits - but much more fun working a lure into fishy spots.... and I'm sure a big lure in the right spot will result in a big fish - lets wait and see

Woppie


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## fisherdan (Apr 17, 2007)

Peril said:


> Has anyone checked out the Wilson Live Fibre Texaliums? There is a 7' 8-15kg model they claim has a fast action and they are in the same price bracket as the Nitros.


That would be perfect for the reef, I took out my 7' 15-24kg Texalium running 50lb braid to jig with last session and it was fantastic out there, I was worried about taking that rod out on a yak but will find it hard to leave behind now, I will be looking for that 8-15kg model soon, even the heavy one is great for casting poppers etc.

Cheer's,


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