# Confusion on Offshore Touring Distance Limit



## Stealthfisha (Jul 21, 2009)

Ok,,,,The question is probibly repeating itself here....but here goes anyhooo.

I am considering getting into offshore touring from mainland to KI and back again....and or find a group of islands and tour them for a few days in average to good conditions.

I hear of a lot of yakers having a great time doing this and it goes without saying I would buy all gear nessassary (and Training) to make it safe as possible above the recomended state requirements.

KI is long way off mainland Australia and so are quite a few others come to think of it....the crux of the matter is according to the forum posts, SA yakers cannot readily go more than 2NM from land....and if they want to they have to meet certain requirements BUT also ask nicely to the right authority correct?

I want to know if there are persons who regulary do this type of disapline here in SA or other states to please advise me on the correct procedure in ensuring I can do this.

Regards


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## andybear (Jan 15, 2006)

That really sucks to be limited in such a way!

Tie a small piece of broomstick to the yak, stitch a handkerchief to a bit of string, and call it a yacht....or yot ....or sailboat. Claim to be 12 years old, and then you can sail as far as you want.

Limits imposed by others (even grownups) are becoming a pet hate of mine :twisted:

Cheers all, and be safe as you like, Andybear


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## kayaksportsmark (Apr 1, 2009)

Get in contact with SA Canoeing http://sa.canoe.org.au and find out if there is a sea kayak club you can join.
Mark


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## solatree (May 30, 2008)

Baggs71 said:


> please advise me on the correct procedure in ensuring I can do this.


The approval to legally go more than 2nm offshore can be provided by the Chief Executive of the Department for Transport, Energy and Infrastructure. You would need to write to him when you are ready to apply for the approval. He might stipulate requirements like an EPIRB, flares etc - He'd probably also want to know what experience you and your team have and what back up you have in case you got into strife.

"_13-Certain vessels not to be operated in unprotected waters
(1)	A person must not, without the approval of the CEO, operate-
(a)	a personal watercraft; or
(b)	a canoe, kayak or other similar small human powered vessel (other than a rowboat),
in unprotected waters
unprotected waters means waters offshore of a line 2 nautical miles seaward of the low water mark of a coast or of the banks of Lakes Alexandrina and Albert; _."

I think seeking advice of SA Canoeing is wise. The tidal rip through backstairs passage is huge - they are pretty difficult waters.


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## andybear (Jan 15, 2006)

Goats and monkeys!

If I am in Adelaide waters, and I have a note from my mother, I will be in the clear???

What higher authority is there?

Cheers all andybear


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## emufingers (Aug 11, 2010)

Unfortunately the legislation has a sad history. There has been a number of kayak / canoe fatalities in SA. Two of the occurred to inexperienced Kayakers in the waters that you are thinking about. IN addition there have been at least five near miss kayak recues South of Myponga within the last few years
The CEO of theDTEI is likely to take his responsibilities very seriously and I would be surprised if there was not a requirement for a mother boat suitable for all weather use in those water with at least two experience crew to be present at all times.
I recently viewed a restricted police video on the KI fatality search. Also present were a number of people who were on that search. The lasting impact on those people was obvious.
While freedom is something to be valued the secondary cost of freedom needs to considered. I think that it requires more than mothers permission,
I know Stealthfisha that you are genuine In your concern to do things properly but my guess is that other than for an occasional adventure that the costs will be very high.

And Tony Cape Jervis to KI is a lot further than your estimate and beyond 2nm there are very strong tidal flows for quite a distance.


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

solatree said:


> I think seeking advice of SA Canoeing is wise. The tidal rip through backstairs passage is huge - they are pretty difficult waters.


So, it is not for everyone. A high level of skills and safety preparedness is advisable. But to ban it?



andybear said:


> That really sucks to be limited in such a way!
> 
> Limits imposed by others (even grownups) are becoming a pet hate of mine :twisted:


Yeah. Try telling Paul Caffyn, Stuart Truman, Andrew McCauley (RIP) they can't paddle somewhere. Huh.
I am concerned about the loss of freedom to make informed decisions. Is not this already amongst the most overgoverned countries in the world?

Here in SE Qld, I can (legally) paddle from Scarborough to Moreton Island, being 7 nautical miles (13 km) from either landmass at the midway point. The currents are strong, and there is at times ocean swell and wind waves (seas) breaking on multiple sandbars. I know the freedom to make these journeys extends to many other states, so why is SA different?

Do they tell the purchasers of new bicycles that they must complete a safety course before riding on the road? If not they may be soon.... Would be rockclimbers to do accredited courses?........

Holy crap. Tell me I'm dreamin' that this is where we're heading.

Trevor


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## Junglefisher (Jun 2, 2008)

kayakone said:


> Do they tell the purchasers of new bicycles that they must complete a safety course before riding on the road? If not they may be soon.... Would be rockclimbers to do accredited courses?........
> 
> Holy crap. Tell me I'm dreamin' that this is where we're heading.
> 
> Trevor


Lots of public abseiling areas now require someone to have done a course before you are allowed to abseil there. Not sure about Rock climbing.


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## spider25160 (Jun 20, 2011)

Everybody wrap yourself in cotton wool and don't step out of your front door without the proper accreditation or risk a fine foe stupidity...
There is only one thing worse than stupidity and that is trying to legislate against it.
Rather than restricting our freedom to challenge ourselves would it not be more useful to provide as much information as we require to be able to choose the level of challenge we wish to attempt?


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## solatree (May 30, 2008)

kayakone said:


> But to ban it?


It was never banned Trevor - but back then you did need to seek approval to go more than 2nm offshore.

But this thread is an old one and times have changed, as have the regulations in SA since around Dec 2010 after some approaches were made by kayakers concerned with these regulation - as reported in this post - viewtopic.php?f=3&t=31939&p=452687&hilit=legally#p452687 So now in SA, you can paddle more than 2nm offshore provided certain safety equipment is carried - such as EPIRB, flares, V-sheet, spare paddle, water, compass and maps or if you are part of a pod of at least 3 in which one kayak carries the listed safety gear - or close to a mother ship where the safety gear is carried.



spider25160 said:


> Rather than restricting our freedom to challenge ourselves would it not be more useful to provide as much information as we require to be able to choose the level of challenge we wish to attempt?


Sadly, as reported elsewhere, 2 new kayak fishers died on their very first kayak fishing trip. When tragic events like those occur, people ask why and how - - and Goverments react - both to the public response, often through the media which looks to lay blame, and to the recommendations Cornoners make to prevent such things happenning again.


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## spider25160 (Jun 20, 2011)

> and Goverments react - both to the public response, often through the media which looks to lay blame, and to the recommendations Cornoners make to prevent such things happenning again.[/quote
> Personally I would prefer to die living my life in my way than never live. The stupidity of this type of legislation is that it allows our subsistence but forbids us to live]


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## solatree (May 30, 2008)

spider25160 said:


> The stupidity of this type of legislation is that it allows our subsistence but forbids us to live


aah yes - the trouble with living in a democracy ! ;-)

It was Winston Churchill that said - "_The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter_."

But at least in a democracy, poorly conceived laws can be changed, as they were in this case.


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## skorgard (Oct 6, 2007)

Tonystott said:


> I wouldn't have thought the distance from the mainland down near Victor Harbor would have been more than 4 miles away from the nearest part of KI, so you could reach KI without needing special permission


The shortest distance from Cape Jervis to Penneshaw is 17 km. I have a mate who has windsurfed it but only go on dodge tide and with favourable wind and ideally with a rescue team backup. I would definitely have VHF with DSC, inform coast guard when leaving and ETA. Better to take the ferry!


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## skorgard (Oct 6, 2007)

I know that I will be going against the main "freedom" thread here but I am in favour of more regulation in general rather than less. It is fair to make risky informed decisions on your own life, but usually a bad decision affects others. Australia was one of the first countries in the world to make car seat belts compulsory, bicycle helmets etc and the stats show that these have saved lives. I remember as in intern picking glass out of people faces because they thought that the the seat belt law was too nannyish.

But there is no law against stupidity. In the UK the coast guard regularly picked up a geezer who was making multiple attemps to sail between Wales and Ireland with a converted bathtub... yes bathtub.... with his only navigational aid being a ROAD map. He was not breaking any law. As I said, no law against stupidity.


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

Did he make it?


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## Zilch (Oct 10, 2011)

Stealthfisha said:


> I am considering getting into offshore touring from mainland to KI and back again....and or find a group of islands and tour them for a few days in *average* to good conditions.


Re. average; :shock: Simply answer here is F...... STUPID !

I have gone across to K.I. a couple of times in twin hulled boats (2 outboards).

Absolute minimum for someone to try this in a yak would be;
1) Dodge tide
2) Calm seas
3) Shark shield
4) Situable mother boat E.G. 18ft minimum, 3 crew
5) Approval from goverment department

My view might seem harsh to some but I lost my best mate in 1980 doing a much less risky thing whilst on holidays on K.I.

We were simply walking along Remarkable Rocks, not fishing or doing anything when Steve slipped in. Long story short, help came from a school tour that were there also, tour guide then slips in, all the school kids now realize how serious this is and several break down crying etc,we spend the next hour trying to get them both out by every means we could think of (their bus had power cords in it so we tied them together with other bits and pieces but could get it out far enough, in desperation we even throw out my cliff gaff hoping they could safely grab the rope not the gaff), my mates drive back to the rangers house to raise the alarm, ranger calls up all boats in the area, boats arrive just as another larger swell rolls in, loose sight of guide and Steve, find and retrieve guide wedged alongside a large rock, guide has a neat round hole in his side which we suspect was from the gaff but he is ok, 8pm one of mates breakdown and tries taking his anger out by smashing things in the caravan park I had to restrain him and calm him down, KI police interview us at 11.30pm, guide flown back to Adelaide hospital. Had to listen to everybody commenting on a drowning they knew nothing about (idiots were shark fishing, probably drunk etc) while returning to Adelaide on the Troubridge (K.I. ferry them days)

My mates body was found 9 days later.
Please always respect the sea and be aware how quick things can get out of your control I don't care how good you think you are. Steve was young (21), fit, excellent swimmer (he was in water / swells for over 1hr, could you swim etc for that long ?) and still didn't make it !

Your actions or possible accidents may also impact on others. I my case I blamed myself for years as I was the eldest, it was my idea to go to K.I. and in hindsight could I have done more to save Steve E.G. roll my spare car wheel in for them to hang on too. Steve's father was torn apart as his last conversation with his son was a arguement and I suspect things were said that I wish he had never said. His dad was never the same and nobody knows what he did with all Steve's fishing gear, it simply disappeared. His mother kept his favourite fishing jacket that Steve was wearing when he drowned.

Steve


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## skorgard (Oct 6, 2007)

Steve this is an absolutely tragic story. You have backed up my point that the tragedy is not just to the victim but to others as well. In your friend's case there was no legislation which would have prevented it, but the principle that legislation can be used to deter people from risky behaviour to me is appropriate.


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## emufingers (Aug 11, 2010)

Steve, What a sad experience. I am very familiar with the area around Remarkable Rocks and I can see how easily a tiny lapse in concentration can lead to a fall. The sea if very unforgiving. Often there is no one person or thing to blame, a system of events comes together and a tragedy happens, but this doesn't mean that nothing can be done. Your approach to encourage others around you now to think about how to manage risks is appreciated and you have a strong impact. It provides a very different perspective , a personal view that is in sharp contrast to concerns about laws and liability.

Jerry


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

Steve

Your story of that tragedy has stunned me. It is heart wrenchingly sad.



emufingers said:


> ... The sea if very unforgiving. Your approach to encourage others around you now to think about how to manage risks is appreciated and you have a strong impact. It provides a very different perspective , a personal view that is in sharp contrast to concerns about laws and liability. Jerry


Thank you for your bravery in telling us, and reminding us of how dangerous the sea is. I hope it will once again turn our minds to safety.



wopfish said:


> .........Lesson to be learned - fish safe - fellow brothers and sisters ! The ocean is a cruel mistress..............


Trevor


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## Zilch (Oct 10, 2011)

kayakone said:


> Thank you for your bravery in telling us, and reminding us of how dangerous the sea is. I hope it will once again turn our minds to safety.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Trevor, most of us become complacent about the sea, so let's hope the recent tragedies and other peoples experiences remind us all that life sometimes can be short and cruel enough without taking additional unwarrantable risks at sea !

I have read your other postings on safety and admire your common sense approach to this important topic.

Tight lines to all but *please* be safe !

Steve


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