# Repair Kayak Sinking Ten miles Offshore



## exp2000 (Jul 9, 2011)

OK, this is the scenario I am proposing:

You are miles offshore out of sight of land in waters remote from civilisation. Your kayak is taking on water; so much water that you are going nowhere.

For the purposes of this discussion, lets just forget about EPIRBS and communications devices for the moment.

You have to effect an emergency repair to the hull in order to seal the leak so you can discharge the water.

Assuming you can locate the source of the leak you need a sealant that:

*Adheres to polyethelene, requires no surface prep, can be used underwater and will cure quickly enough to provide a working temporary seal that will last for ten or 20 miles.*

Question is - what is it called.

Has anyone been in this situation or has anyone trialled polyethelene glues /sealants to see if they can be effectively applied underwater?

I would value proven practical experience over theoretical untrialled manufacturers claims.

For me this scenario is a real possibility I have to be prepared to deal with.

Thanks,
Brett.


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

16kms off shore without an EPIRB? Isnt there a law against that. :? 
How do you get a hole in your kayak that far out? 
Meteor strike?
Perhaps getting mistaken as a Minke by the Jap whalers?
Maybe you have a Hobie? 
Dont know the answer.
My kayaks have bulk heads and one has inbuilt floatation and the other a bilge pump and bucket. There made of fiberglass, so gaffer tape will do the job.
If I had a plastic yak, I'd probably stick closer in shore and have a radio/phone/EPIRB. Nothing will stick to plastic in that condition.


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

patwah said:


> Broome and a hole
> 
> Croc?
> 
> ...


Scary place :shock: .

Maybe an unexploded marine mine left floating around since WWII?

You could carry around a wad of plumbers pipe hemp (no it doesnt make you high  ). Youd have to keep it dry, then stuff it in the tooth hole where the croc had a bite and as it gets wet it will expand slightly and slow down the leak. Probably wouldnt work if you blew a hole in the hull from a mine, but could work if you got a Sailfish strike.


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

There is a waterproof epoxy that will stick to plastic. One brand is 'Aquabond', from Whitworths Marine ($ 20). It comes in 2 different coloured sticks which are mixed in equal quantities, and at 20 C will harden in 3 hours.

SOTs seem to leak a bit, and as they lack the bulkheads of sea kayaks, going down is a real possibility....
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=48946&hilit=Scoman

As said previously, it is advisable to have a hand pump and a sponge, and or an electric bilge pump.

Trevor


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## Barrabundy (Sep 29, 2008)

Alright, you said nothing theoretical but this is theoretical. I've used duct tape to plug the scupper holes when carrying a passenger in the back. I get a 100% seal BUT the tape is applied to a dry hull in the comfort of my garage. I doubt very much it would stick underwater but if there was a tape that did I reckon that's what you'd want, and that's the question you're asking which I haven't answered.


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## Shufoy (May 28, 2008)

Tape is definatley the go..


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## kiltedyaksman (Jan 4, 2012)

Googled "underwater tape":
http://www.rescuetape.com/dema
http://www.aquabondadhesives.com/butyl-tape.php


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

Do any of those stick to Polyethylene?......when wet?


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

Paul
The epoxy yes, and it sounds like the two products Kiltedyaksman put up will too.


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

kayakone said:


> Paul
> The epoxy yes, and it sounds like the two products Kiltedyaksman put up will too.


Show me where it says it will stick to Polyethylene......when wet.....and under pressure.

Best bet would be to make up some bulkheads and stuff them full of pool noodles and you might even be able to stuff pool noodle in the hole and then set off your EPIRB.


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## Barrabundy (Sep 29, 2008)

What's wrong with chewing gum? Seriously! It might take some time to chew it but it sticks pretty good to anything, even under water.


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## Junglefisher (Jun 2, 2008)

Sheet of thin plastic over the outside of the hull.


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## exp2000 (Jul 9, 2011)

Some of you are almost psychic .... almost :?

A few months back I was diving on the Moorings in Willie Creek doing inspections but the crocs didn't put any holes in me and yes I am talking about Hobies :shock: Hopefully the sailfish will happen in a few months.

Has anyone actually tried any of these suggestions in practice and by that I mean on a HDPE hull under the water?

As Junglefishern said, In the absence of any practical trials you could count on a plastic sheet and a few laps of duct tape around the girth of the hull to effect a reliable temporary repair to stop the ingress of water.


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

Exp2000 is not kidding.

He really does go _way_ offshore in very remote locations. His questions are not hypothetical, but of great impotance to Hobie AI & TI owners, and also to SOT & SIK owners as well.

I think I'd better try my epoxy for real. Who in Brissie has a GoPro or equivalent? I would like to film this, and at the same time, the recovery/re-entry assist tape loop that came out of the safety day.

Also, who has tried the plastic sheet etc for real? All sounds good on an internet forum, but when the excreta hits the revolving device.......

Trevor


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## exp2000 (Jul 9, 2011)

patwah said:


> Do you ever chase those big arse blue salmon in Roebuck?, my wife and I had a ball chasing those guys a few years ago.


Don't play in the bay much preferring the blue water but I am thinking of poking around in there someday soon.

What were you throwing at them?

Had a magic session a month back starting in a couple of meters of water in the mouth of willie creek.

In a few hours I hooked into every local pelagic species you could name. Lost count after 20 fish and got fished out in the end.

While I wasn't in a Yak this location is easily within reach and would have made the experience that much more rewarding.


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## snapperz (Dec 31, 2008)

exp2000 said:


> OK, this is the scenario I am proposing:
> 
> You are miles offshore out of sight of land in waters remote from civilisation. Your kayak is taking on water; so much water that you are going nowhere.
> 
> ...


Ask this guy,he might have some ideas.


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

exp2000 said:


> Some of you are almost psychic .... almost :?
> 
> A few months back I was diving on the Moorings in Willie Creek doing inspections but the crocs didn't put any holes in me and yes I am talking about Hobies :shock: Hopefully the sailfish will happen in a few months.
> 
> ...


Sorry for having a bit of fun with your thread, it is a serous problem.

Nothing is going to stick successfully to Polyethylene, while its wet and under water. The best way to repair a hole is by either welding it or use a mechanical patch (i.e. a patch either side held together with screws/bolts/riverts and a sealant sandwiched in between).
Cracks in hulls are often very hard to find and can be in places that aren't very accessible. You may be able to bung something in the crack to slow things down, if you can get to it.

I use to have a leak in my first kayak and would have to come in regularly to empty out the water, nothing I used was very successful in stopping the leak. Sometimes I could go for 4 hours, sometimes only 2. Water in the hull slows you down big time and the more you have the faster it sinks.
Also Hobies some times develop cracks in areas with a lot of flex, like around the mirage drive footings and scupper holes, so even less likely to get a successful repair.

In my honest opinion, your best option would be to instal positive bouncy in your hull and have both an electric bilge pump and a hand operated one......and an EPIRB.

I had an 18' boat that developed a 12" crack in the hull while I was out, both electric bilge pumps failed, but the under deck floatation kept it a float enough to get it back to land under its own power. Another thing out of date flares fail, V sheets are nearly useless to use, having radio/phone contact with VMR and a GPS makes rescue a lot easier.


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## DougOut (Dec 31, 2006)

there is a product currently being TV advertised up here called Boat Bog (same stuff as Leak Bog, I presume).
Within the add it is shown to be applied to the inner surface of an aluminium boat with the surface well and truly flooded (about 2 inches of water over the crack being sealed).
The product appears to of a putty type consistency that is worked by hand and then pressed onto the fracture for a temporary fix. Don't see why it would adhere to a plastic yak ( even a Hobie ) ;-) 
Works well in the add ( but doesn't everything ). 
I have not tried this product or have any association with it, nor have I googled for further info.


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## Cresta57 (Oct 30, 2011)

I'd just press the emergency button & my yak would turn into a hovercraft & I'd then head back in towing a couple of mermaids behind me.


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## exp2000 (Jul 9, 2011)

kayakone said:


> I think I'd better try my epoxy for real. Who in Brissie has a GoPro or equivalent? I would like to film this, and at the same time, the recovery/re-entry assist tape loop that came out of the safety day.
> 
> Also, who has tried the plastic sheet etc for real? All sounds good on an internet forum, but when the excreta hits the revolving device.......
> 
> Trevor


Hi Trevor,

I think the problem with epoxies in general is that they won't adhere to HDPE. The small jars used for mixing epoxies are made from HDPE and when the residue hardens it is easily dislodged from the container.

Polyethelene is used for a wide range of storage applications such as pool chlorine because it is impervious to chemical assault. Apart from a couple of newly specialised adhesives specifically developed to overcome this problem, nothing sticks to it. So we need to test any contenders.

If anyone want's to test a product the first step would be to just take lid from a plastic icecream container or a 20 litre bucket and glue a test sample at home. If that works, you're in with a chance and can try the same test underwater.

Good Luck,
Brett.


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

ArWeTherYet said:


> In my honest opinion, your best option would be to instal positive bouancy in your hull and have both an electric bilge pump and a hand operated one......and an EPIRB.
> Another thing out of date flares fail, V sheets are nearly useless to use, having radio/phone contact with VMR and a GPS makes rescue a lot easier.


Good advice. I'm planning on a 2,000 L/ hr bilge pump (got the hand operated one). Get the EPIRB with GPS...they'll find you much faster. I'd also carry a McMurdo Fast Find attached to the PFD.

Doubt there's any VMR where exp2000 is going (Cassini Island & Lacepede ISlands WA), but VHF could be useful for contacting other boats in the area.

Trip report please?

Trevor


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## exp2000 (Jul 9, 2011)

ArWeTherYet said:


> In my honest opinion, your best option would be to instal positive bouncy in your hull and have both an electric bilge pump and a hand operated one......and an EPIRB.


These and other options such as EPIRBs and Sat Phones are all good ideas for consideration but for the purposes of this discussion I want to focus on dealing with the immediate probelm which is stemming the leak.

Now what McGyver do :-? :?:


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## emufingers (Aug 11, 2010)

Positive buoyancy and or bulkheads is essential for offshore. You need to know that even if fully flooded you are going to have somethibg to hang onto. The great thibg is yoiu can test that you have the right amnount of buoyancy before you go, Just work out what you need and fit it, then go down to the beach and fill the yak with water. If it sinks, go and add more until you have it floating at a kevel that will support you in turbulent seas. This way you don't fill up unnecessary space with buoyancy material. Make sure your buoyancy material can't float away. I prefer polyurethane buoyancy foam because it is closed cell and doesn't slowly become less buoyant. The only draw back is if you use the part A /B reactive foam that it can create enough pressure to distort you hull. It is however surprising how little you need to make a big difference.


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

The problem is finding the leak. It's not like you can get a good look inside and see where its coming from and you can't flip it over or have a walk around.
Once the water is in the hull, you need to drain it to have any chance at seeing where it is coming from.
Once the hull has a certain amount of water in it, it becomes very unstable and wants to roll over.
If you think the leak is coming through a cracked scupper, you could shove a scupper plug up through the bottom to stop water getting to the crack.
If you think it is from your drive well, you need to stop peddling and use the paddle.
The only case I can see where you would get a leak that is in a spot you can find and tape is if a shark has a chew on your yak.

Maybe someone should invent a kayak condom that you slide over the entire yak and then make a hole in the top to pump water out.


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

keza said:


> Maybe someone should invent a kayak condom.....


And why not? There are a few dicks on kayaks.


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## exp2000 (Jul 9, 2011)

keza said:


> The problem is finding the leak. It's not like you can get a good look inside and see where its coming from and you can't flip it over or have a walk around.


I will be carrying a diving mask which will make inspection pretty easy. But as you say finding it could be difficult.


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## exp2000 (Jul 9, 2011)

I have posted what seems to be a good answer to this dilemma here:

http://www.akff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=53972

Brett.


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## DGax65 (Jun 7, 2006)

I think there are a couple of ways to approach this particular problem: plug or pump. I doubt it is possible to safeguard yourself completely against all types of flooding; however, you can mitigate the hazard to some degree.

*Repairing holes*: Not all holes are going to be visible or accessible for repair. Unless you actually see the damage occur (ex. a marlin spears the bottom of your yak) it is quite possible that you will not know where the hole is located. Even if you do know where the hole is, it might not be possible to reach it from the deck of your kayak. Theoretically you could overturn your kayak to reach the hole, but would you really want to do that? It might be necessary to go into the water to effect repairs. There are a couple of products on the market that might be useful for emergency repairs to a kayak hull. I've seen a product called Stay Afloat demonstrated at boat shows. It looks like it would be very effective for the type of holes you might get in kayaks. I have never used it, so I cannot personally vouch for it. The other, Boat Bog has already been discussed here. Both work, not by bonding to the hull, but by filling to hole and sticking to the edges of the of the crack or hole. Obviously not a long-term repair, but good enough to get to shore. There are two-part epoxies that might also work. I think that most epoxies would be more difficult to work with than the wax or putty-types previously mentioned. I used a two-part epoxy to fill a couple of holes in the stern of an OK Prowler. That stuff was like a block of concrete after it cured and it was definitely waterproof. It worked well when applied in my shop, but I don't know if it would have been as successful had I applied it while underway.

*Pumping out*: Even if you plug the leak you will still have to pump out the hull. It goes without saying that you should have a pump on the yak. A hand pump works well, but is slow and prevents you from paddling and pumping simultaneously. It makes for very slow going when trying to get a leaking kayak back to shore. An electric bilge pump would be effective, especially if you are a long ways off shore. I installed a 500gph pump in my last kayak.










The bilge pump and FF/GPS ran off a 12vDC/10Ahr battery. No matter what happened, I was sure to have hours of bilge pump run time on that battery. You just need to make sure that the battery and switches are properly waterproofed.
I think the 500gph pump would be able to handle just about any conceivable leak in your kayak. This video shows just how much water it could pump.


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