# do u guys tie the yack on front and back? or just use straps



## gros21 (May 3, 2010)

aboutto take my yak out forthe 1st time, just wantto make sure its right.
im going to strap on my yak but thats it no tieing it front and back.


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## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

Gros mate I am assuming your talking about putting it on top of your car ???

Depends a lot on the kayak but basically a strap over the kayak were each supporting bar or roof rack is. Front and back straps as well wont hurt on big kayaks but a bit more info would help us give you a more exact answer.

Cheers Dave


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## skorgard (Oct 6, 2007)

Always tie front and rear. An airborne yak @ 100 km / h is a deadly missile.


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## Bretto (May 23, 2010)

The straps on top of my car only keep my yak from moving side to side. They're more guides than anything. I tie both front and back to keep it from coming off the top of my car.


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## Dodge (Oct 12, 2005)

Mate I have cross straps tightened firmly [not super tight] on each roof rack, and also have a rope from the kayak bow back to the front rack to stop forward movement.

On a longer trip at highway speeds ..... I also add a second strap on the front roof rack, as a just in case measure, and also recheck the straps for any loosening after a few kilometres on the road.


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## Junglefisher (Jun 2, 2008)

I don't tie the front or back, just straps. 
Not that I would suggest you do such a thing, but 25,000km in and they haven't moved once.


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## damo83 (Apr 27, 2011)

I just use ratchet straps on both of the racks. The shape of the hull prevents it moving backwards or forwards once strapped down tight...


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## Oddrod (Sep 27, 2009)

I just use two straps. My kayaks are short at under 3m and the broadest part of the kayak fits between the straps and there's no real need to tie the front and back. I've travelled at 110 on the highway with no problems at all. If I had longer kayaks however I'd probably tie front and back.


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## Barrabundy (Sep 29, 2008)

damo83 said:


> I just use ratchet straps on both of the racks. The shape of the hull prevents it moving backwards or forwards once strapped down tight...


x2.

I now use 2 straps on the front bar as I arrived at a fishing spot once with the kayak missing...didn't even notice it part company in the dark. I don't know if just forgot to tie it down in front after being interrupted while loading or whether the front strap failed. If the front strap failed, which I doubt, there would be less chance that 2 would fail at the same time. Probably over-kill especially as it was probably my absent mindedness but once bitten, twice shy as they say.

....and I've travelled as fast as the four little wheels on my ute will go (on private roads of course)


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

I sharpened the front of mine and don't tie it on at all.


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## Nativeman (Sep 6, 2005)

For my kayaks that have been under 4.25 long I have just used the two straps across the middle. For this I find Cam Lock straps are best.

When I transported the Ultra 4.7 I used the same straps but with the addition of front and rear tie downs, For this I use Thule Quick Draw Tiedowns, a little on the expensive side but so easy to attach and tie firmly.

Cheers


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## legs2691 (Jun 19, 2010)

A rope or strap should ALWAYS be used on the front, as this is in the eye sight of the driver and any movement of the kayak either side ways or forwards will be indacated by a slack rope or angle change. It is an early indacator of things that could go very badly!


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## ELM (Jul 14, 2008)

Kayaks should be tied to the rack, then from front with a V and from the back, if you use binders, put a twist in the binder to eliminate vibrate or flap. Your kayak hanging out over any vehicle has the potential to became a very large sail first and a missile second. Sure it may sit there and not move for 10km or 100,000 km but what happens the day it does, do you think the person it impales will want to here that.

What if the roof rack separates? While the roof racks (and car roofs for that matter), might be rated for weight (downward force), are they rated for upward force) if the wind gets under the kayak and starts lifting?

Have a read of this story from NSW Sea Kayak Club; Roof Rack Ruckus
After reading that and Out of the first 12 posts here, with 2 owners that have had their yaks part company, it's not great odds and a good reason to tie one front and back.


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## Oddrod (Sep 27, 2009)

That's a very interesting link ELM, might have to rethink what I do in regard to securing my kayak on the racks. One thing is certain though, the fittings on the Hobie would need some reinforcing to handle the stresses. I doubt if the standard fitting would hold under the force described in that forum post.


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## Junglefisher (Jun 2, 2008)

I've been having a think about that ELM and here's my take on it.
An updraft of sufficient strength to rip the bolts out of my roof to lift the roofrack (mine is bolted on no gutter clips) would also, one would expect have enough strength to stretch the front and back tie down 1/4" - enough to still rip the roofrack out, except now it attatched to the front and back of my ute via tie downs. Of course, that wind is from the side so it's now pushed the entire rack, jerry can full of diesel, chainsaw, solar panel etc plus 2 kayaks to the side of the car where it's ripped my mirrors off and is now bouncing on the road and into my door / window at 100kmh. At some point the tie downs are going to snap - probably the front one first so it's going to go smashing into the caravan before I jack-knife the entire rig as my face is now bleeding and I can't see.
I don't see that tie downs have saved me (or other road users) much grief in this scenario. I also tie my kayaks upside down so that they don't create updraft themselves so it's only that freak wind that is going to cause the problem.


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## breamer390 (May 14, 2011)

I remember reading some where that you have to strap down front and rear of the yak as well as the were the racks are so that your insurance will cover damaged caused by the yak coming loose. Also think you may be liable for negligence charges should anything go wrong. The same as not covering you load when using a trailer or ute.


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## 4weightfanatic (May 19, 2011)

I have an OK scupper pro 4.5m and tie it on soft racks then strap the front and back. I have done 110 k's/hr and it didn't seem to move at all. This tied on a camry sedan Pat.


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## eagle4031 (Jan 29, 2010)

damo83 said:


> I just use ratchet straps on both of the racks. The shape of the hull prevents it moving backwards or forwards once strapped down tight...


 i strap things to my racks as aprt of my job on a daily basis (on ute) - if you have ratchet straps over the yak under the roof rack and then around same side strap and fed to far side ratchet - nothing will move
prob need photo


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## damo83 (Apr 27, 2011)

eagle4031 said:


> damo83 said:
> 
> 
> > I just use ratchet straps on both of the racks. The shape of the hull prevents it moving backwards or forwards once strapped down tight...
> ...


Sorry mate I don't quite follow what you mean there but when I strap the yak on the strap is passed over the yak, under the rack, back over the yak, under the rack and then back over the yak again to the ratchet. So the strap goes over the yak three times...


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

skorgard said:


> Always tie front and rear. An airborne yak @ 100 km / h is a deadly missile.


Good advice. I know a sea kayaker who lost 2 new Nadgee sea kayaks (fibreglass) off the car at speed...the front rack let go, then the pressure ripped the rear rack off. One very expensive finely crafted cruise missile (2 X $ 4000) about to take out lives. Imagine seeing that coming at your windsceen. Imagine what damage it could do. They were very lucky they didn't kill people, the only damage being to their wallets.

The rack strength and attachment method are critical components of the system. Cam straps are excellent. I put guess how many (whitewater = 2.8m long) kayaks on the roof of a Diahatsu Delta and drove to Sydney/Canberra/Melbourne. Never lost a yak in 3 trips. Know how many..Ha, bet you can't guess?? (It could be an Oz record for that length vehicle.

Answer in a few days. Clue: the racks were strong, cam straps & a big canopy over the ute back. Delta is about 5 m long.


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## robsea (Apr 7, 2010)

100 kmph Solution straps with several half hitches to prevent slack.

Don't tie down front and can't see any reason to tie down the back end of the yak.

Has done me good for trips of up to 400 km or more. When i stop i check the straps. That said it is probably not a bad idea to tie down the front.


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## zeezu (Oct 20, 2010)

For our smaller yaks (10ft or shorter), we just use the cross straps, but we run them through the kayak scuppers as well. Never had a problem with them.

For the larger kayak (Viking profish) we put a front and back strap. Main reason for this is so that the forward and back forces on the heavier kayak (due to breaking and accelerating) are on the straps rather than the roof racks, reducing the chance of the roof racks coming loose. I wouldnt expect the fore and rear straps to assist much with uplift tho.


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## john316 (Jan 15, 2009)

I used to tie everything down tight but found that a custom trailer with the yaks locked securely inside was a far superior option. Now the yaks are on their slides pretty much ready to pull out and put on the water. No wind issues for this little black duck...

cheers

John


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## WayneD (Jul 11, 2006)

Two straps over yak and tied to roof racks for my espri. The supalite I used to have a thule quick draw thingy that Sel was talking about tied to the front, but back then I only had soft roof racks. Seriously it is up to you, I don't think there is any law on it. If you don't feel comfortable transporting it without the extra straps then whack them on. Takes about a minute to put on the extra straps.


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## ELM (Jul 14, 2008)

Its all fine saying it's fine, mine never moves on the rack, its about the racks them selves and they are what gives way the most. Straps off the front will at least help minimise any lift at the front, if a rack fails. I read that the biggest cause to rack failure with overhanging loads, was the up draft caused by passing trucks and strong cross wind, the safest way to secure an overhanging load, is to secure it with a V to the front and back of the vehicle. Front and back ropes help relieve the extra forces placed on the rack.

While a kayak tied just to the racks may be legal, the moment it parts company, the load is deemed to be secured improperly and then illegal until proven otherwise. If someone is hurt because of it, then it might also become reckless endangerment or possibly manslaughter. 
It's just like wearing seat belts; There was plenty of evidence to prove they saved lives, just people refused to take any notice and didn't really care about the consequence if something were to go wrong, specially if it's someone else's life at risk.


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## feelfree09 (May 5, 2009)

with the PA i had, on an AU falcon wagon. i used the hobie straps over the top of the yak plus tied the rear handle down to the tow bar. i figured with a beffy rope holding the back of the yak, the worst that could happen was if both straps failed simultaneously the yak would flip and worse case would put a dent in the guy behind me's bonnet. now i think of it. the extra 2 minutes required to tie the front is no big deal in the scheme of things


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## dunamis (Sep 27, 2009)

I lost mine on the highway so now it's tied on front and back and two across the hull


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## Ado (Mar 31, 2008)

skorgard said:


> Always tie front and rear. An airborne yak @ 100 km / h is a deadly missile.


Amen. The roofracks are the weekest link.


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## actionsurf (Jul 8, 2010)

How hard is it to tie a rope from the nose to the front of your car? Then another one to the back? When travelling around Moreton and Fraser islands you can literally drop 2-3 feet on a track and you are bouncing around everwhere you drive. The only indication that something is wrong is the front rope. Same on a busy highway at 110k. If the rope has any slack, get out and check. Also,if the rack itself gives way, at least the yak is still tied down to the vehicle. That can only be a good thing at 110k on a 3 lane Highway.


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## garyp (May 30, 2008)

Didn't realize there were so many ways to strap on!


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## mehi (May 25, 2009)

occy said:


> Front and back tie down is definitely recommended by most experienced yak people, but to tell you the truth it's not really practical these days given the sloping fronts/backs of modern cars, and lack of tie down points. I have seen a strap set up (on ebay I think) which attaches to the bolts under the front bonnet/tailgate that seems practical to me. Anyone else know about them?


I made my own out of child restraint straps the ones that hold baby capsules in, just took it to a shade sail maker he sowed in an eyelet then I bolted it in using one of the bolts to the front guard,as soon as my camera is sorted I'll post a pic up


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## ELM (Jul 14, 2008)

You can also make some with dowels threaded through a loop for inside the car and under the bonnet, with a second loop extending out for your tie downs to attach to. These are removable after each trip just by opening the bonnet and rear tailgate/boot.


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## Stealthfisha (Jul 21, 2009)

Rubber pads on both racks
2x cam straps
1000s of klm
Never moved an inch.

I think it comes down to the set up
If you use steel faced racks with ratchet straps then this recipe might move.


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## koich (Jul 25, 2007)

Baggs71 said:


> Rubber pads on both racks
> 2x cam straps
> 1000s of klm
> Never moved an inch.
> ...


+1


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## solatree (May 30, 2008)

Baggs71 said:


> Rubber pads on both racks
> 2x cam straps
> 1000s of klm
> Never moved an inch.


Ditto including trips on some pretty corrugated roads.


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## Ado (Mar 31, 2008)

The front and rear tiedowns are not to prevent movement of the yak on the racks (though they help that too). They are to prevent the racks leaving the roof of the car. There are reports on the web of this happening, especially at high speed and in strong (100 km/h) cross winds.

There are many ways to stop a yak moving on the racks. But no strength or care tying them to the racks will prevent the racks parting from the car, with the well tied down kayak flying with them.


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## bayyaka (Aug 8, 2009)

I had a set of the cheaper set of pro rack roof racks on my Forester, the square section ones. I had a problem with the clamping onto the roof rails where when I would tie down the yak or just fitting them to the car something would let go in the roof rack, I went through 3 sets replaced under warranty till I rang pro rack direct and discussed the issue with them, the first question they asked me was did I tie at the front (which I did happen to do), as the uplift forces were incredibly high at highway speeds. This is regardless of the yak being the right way up or upside down as the wind coming off the windscreen is where the forces are coming from. In the end it was a production problem with my racks and they replaced them with the whispbar ones and have never had a problem since, so yes at speed a yak of any length and weight is a deadly projectile because no matter how expensive or good your racks are, they are still the weakest point in the connection between yak and car.


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## Marcos (Sep 16, 2010)

I use two rachet straps across the hull and a cam strap through the mirage drive to the front rack a cam strap through the scuppa holes to the rear rack on my outback.


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## koich (Jul 25, 2007)

Ado said:


> The front and rear tiedowns are not to prevent movement of the yak on the racks (though they help that too). They are to prevent the racks leaving the roof of the car. There are reports on the web of this happening, especially at high speed and in strong (100 km/h) cross winds.


My man trailer needs a sledgehammer to remove the racks.

Good luck feeble 100km/h cross wind.


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## craig450 (May 11, 2007)

koich said:


> Ado said:
> 
> 
> > The front and rear tiedowns are not to prevent movement of the yak on the racks (though they help that too). They are to prevent the racks leaving the roof of the car. There are reports on the web of this happening, especially at high speed and in strong (100 km/h) cross winds.
> ...


A gas axe or angle grinder is the only way mine are coming off  i reckon we'll be right


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## koich (Jul 25, 2007)

That's a valid point. :lol:

Sometimes I like to only use one strap and drive several hundred kilometres with a brain infection.


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## gonfission (Feb 21, 2009)

Good topic. I s'pose you always reckon you are doing the right thing so long as you get away with it. Then one day you might not . :? How's about strap your boat to the roof rack, then strap the boat and roof rack to the car via the windows or doors with a third and possibly even a fourth strap. Yep the strap across the cabin of the car is a nuisance but Reading that thread made me realise my racks are fastened by allen screws and well, basically friction.  "Nothing like as good as nuts an bolts.
" Just a thought but probly not advisable in a convertible :lol: I used to carry a yak with soft racks, basically two big lumps of sponge on the roof of the car with straps through the doors I felt very comfortable that they were not gonna move unless the straps actually snapped. Now with u-beaut toyota racks I'm not so confident. Oh, I have a stand up cockpit coaming which I strap around to stop the boat sliding back or forwards. Strap goes over the back deck behind the coaming, both ends under the rack, then both up and over the coaming and fasten. Similar with front straps. In future, and a new boat will be going up there in the next week or so I reckon I'll put another strap through the car and over the yak. Then I'll put my seat belt on. Cheers John.


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