# Fishfinder Question



## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

Hi all. This has probably been covered before on this forum, but I'll ask again anyway! I thought I'd ask opinions on this forum before annoying the bloke at my local marine shop

I'm thinking of fitting a fishfinder and I'm after one that has a removable screen so that I don't damage it when carrying the yak on my roofracks (I carry my yak upside down). Basically I dont want any attachments to be higher than the top line of the yak and it seems to me that a 'permanently mounted' screen that sat up above the edges of my yak would get smashed up pretty quickly.

Do all fishfinders have removable screens? Does anyone have one with a removable screen that they would recommend ?? IS there a recommended way of mounting them so that the screen and/or mounting bracket doesn't get damaged when carrying on top of car?. I've looked at the way Gatesy's done his - that looks like the best idea so far....any other tips/suggestions?

Sorry for all the questions. Woudl appreciate your help! Thanks


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

Dave, most FFs are removable for security reasons. Most stink boaters I know remove theirs at the end of the day. I have and Eagle Cuda 128. It is mounted on the console between by legs. The top of the mounting bracket is below the line of the gunwhales so there is no risk of damage in transit. I also transport my yak upside down. The Cudas also have a vertical profile meaning it doesn't get in my way. The 128 is bottom of the range but serves my needs - I can see the structure and usually determine whether the bottom is hard, soft or weed. The temperature reading isn't much use as it gives the temp inside the hull. Yesterday it was reading more than 30 on Lake St Clair which just wasn't true.


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## HiRAEdd (Nov 12, 2005)

Same here, I have a Cuda 168 (identical to the 128 just with twice the resolution). Great unit, detachable so I have no probs carrying the yak on the roof. I find the same, the temperature reading with the transducer in the hull is way off so I just turn the temp display off.


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## Phoenix (Jan 12, 2006)

Your best bet is to shop around. Go to KMART & Big W, plus any other local tackle shop as prices tend to vary considerably.

I'd also suggest looking in a second-hand goods paper such as the trading post, or even at cash converters. You never know your luck.

Many finders have different features, better resolution etc. You also want one that is easy to use. Not tiny buttons etc.

Finially check with your insurance company as I have heard that some companies want these items listed seperatly.


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

OK thanks. I've been looking at the Eagles and the Garmin's. I want one with the 'arch' symbols rather than the 'fish' symbols. Peril/HirAEdd, what does yours have? The temp reading's not that important to me, and as I will be fishing mainly water less than 30m deep, the sounder doesn't need to go much deeper. Any suggestions as to the best one for my needs?

one more question.

I too will be mounting it between my legs on the raised section above the cupholder. Obviously the wiring for the battery and the transducer needs to come through the hull. Does the mounting plate cover this wiring or do you need to drill a seperate hole for the wiring? Basically what i want to know is there a way of ensuring that the hull is completely sealed (waterproof) ? I assume there's some sort of rubber grommet that sits around the wiring on the hull and allows you to pull the wires in and out, so I can't see how this could be completely waterproof.

Has anyone had any problems with getting water in, or is it only a dribble at most?

Thanks in anticipation.


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

> OK thanks. I've been looking at the Eagles and the Garmin's. I want one with the 'arch' symbols rather than the 'fish' symbols. Peril/HirAEdd, what does yours have?


The Eagles have both Fish symbols and arches (ie turn off fish symbols). Fish symbols are a gimmick and mostly just crap in the water. I never use them.


> The temp reading's not that important to me, and as I will be fishing mainly water less than 30m deep, the sounder doesn't need to go much deeper. Any suggestions as to the best one for my needs?


Its just a matter of price I think. I'm happy with the 128 but then I only paid $150, on special at BigW. Have a look at a few and see what resolution you are prepared to pay for. I also suspect that as we travel very slowly compared to stink boats that high resolution is largely wasted.



> one more question.
> 
> I too will be mounting it between my legs on the raised section above the cupholder. Obviously the wiring for the battery and the transducer needs to come through the hull. Does the mounting plate cover this wiring or do you need to drill a seperate hole for the wiring? Basically what i want to know is there a way of ensuring that the hull is completely sealed (waterproof) ? I assume there's some sort of rubber grommet that sits around the wiring on the hull and allows you to pull the wires in and out, so I can't see how this could be completely waterproof.
> 
> Has anyone had any problems with getting water in, or is it only a dribble at most?


There are two cables coming from the plug that fits into the unit - one to the transducer and one to the battery. I have a leccy and share the battery, so I ran the cable through the hull. The plug is also sizeable, so you require a hole big enough for it.

I drilled a 16mm hole for the plug and cables. I bought a fat grommet to fit into this hole, but which had a hole too small for the plug. I cut through the grommet to fit it around the cables then sikaflexed it liberally. The sounder mount was then fitted over the grommet with a liberal amount of silicone - the mount plate has a gap for the cables. I get some water in the yak (I think wicking along the steering cables) but haven't noticed any extra due to the sounder.



> Thanks in anticipation.


Pleasure


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## HiRAEdd (Nov 12, 2005)

Davey G said:


> I want one with the 'arch' symbols rather than the 'fish' symbols. Peril/HirAEdd, what does yours have?


The Cuda's have both, you set which one you want in the options. I bought a Cuda 128 at Amart All Sports for $130, then sold it on Ebay for $160 and then bought a Cuda 168 on Ebay for $150  The higher resolution is _very_ nice 



Davey G said:


> I too will be mounting it between my legs on the raised section above the cupholder.
> Has anyone had any problems with getting water in, or is it only a dribble at most?


I bought a small rubber grommet from Clark Rubber to go inside the drill hole and thread the wires through. This doesn't make it waterproof but it does give it a raised rubber lip so any water that seeps under pretty much can't get down the hole. And any that does is only a few drops.


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

thanks one and all. will update you with my progress and post some pics once I start the fitting process...

Dave


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## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

Hi Davey G,

Your post made me think of my Garmin FF120. The transducer was stolen with my old stink boat back in May 2004.

I dug out the main unit from my cupboard today and called GME (The distributors) about buying a new transducer and cable.

They are absolute legends. The guy I spoke to: Ian Kemp is posting me a replacement transducer for FREE. He said that he found one floating around in stock.

If for no other reason than impeccible customer service - Go Garmin. 5 star service.


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

does anyone have a pirahna max 10/15/20? these look like a good compact and cheap unit. my only question is do they have the arch symbols, as I ve looked at them and they only seem to show the 'fish' symbols which I understand aren't the best at actually showing fish.

leaning towards the garmin at the moment


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

Dave, arches will be shown by any sounder, provided the transducer is properly mounted. They are a normal consequence of the sound waves reflecting off fish. Many sounders have a fish id feature, which should be turned off as it will have a lot of spurious matches.


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

gatesy, thanks mate. very helpful..

D


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## andybear (Jan 15, 2006)

For those out there who have had the misfortune to see the way my transducer is mounted on the viking fisherman, all must be rolling around the decks laughing at my pvc pipe set up!
I followed the link to the better way of setting up, and see far more professional set-ups. I guess I have been a bit sceptical about the notion that the transducer can get as good results shooting thru the hull, as opposed to being in the water. In the next few days I will move my transducer (indoors). The results I have had from the pretend outboard, have been very good, but if I ever want to mount a real leccy it has stolen the space and the mounting hole. Getting all the velcro patches off the hull will also be good.
As it was though, I never had it hook up any weed, but there have been occasions when my line wrapped around it, and spoiled things a bit.
There was another dramatic time, when my readings went so haywire, I thought I must be in a school of fish so thick it must be like a carpet out there, the depth was between infinity and nothing, ..... it turned out one of the PVC sections had let go, and the transducer was spinning.... the old heartrate was off the clock!!!!!

Regards all


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## varp (Sep 12, 2005)

Welcome Andy B Bear. Live and learn and so it goes.....never friggin stops! 

Is that a dead cat on your head in the avatar Andy?


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## Marco (Jan 21, 2006)

I faced the FF choosing dilema at Christmas... I am *really* happy with what I ended up with but everyone is different. Here is what I'd recommend to look for... (Please be kind this is my first post)

- Wide angle of transducer (with dual+ frequencies) - some FF say they can do 60 degrees but in reality they try and do this by upping sensitivity (so I'm think more noise/signal ratio)
- large verticle pixel count (the best screen U can afford, it's what you look at, and readable in direct sun)
- 200 watt plus output power (GEL cells are cheapish so battery life won't be a problem anyway and if going through hull I'd go greater than 100watt)
- waterproof (most are these days but worth a quick check...)
- GPS interface/capability (why? I wanted 1 interface to as much as I could to save on deck space)
- easily removable for surf zone (although haven't had the pleasure yet) and for transport. Easy, I mean, no fiddly screws or plugging of cables. I think of my boat FF and thought I don't want to have to stuff about on my yak
- cost (this is the killer for us in OZ)

I ended up with a Humminbird Matrix 17. 300 watts, dual beam, 60degree, all matrix interface to almost all GPS's, great removal system, waterproof and floats!. 
Downside - cost and size. Size is fine, if you account for it being your GPS interface, cost is fine as well if you do what I did and happy to work in feet. Ebay is your friend, even better if a mate is travelling to the US  Here the sucker costs $430AU, it cost me $207AU from the states. You sacifice warrantee here, and shipping costs but for $200 it's a great FF and I thought it worth the risk.

Damn this post is getting long.... (hope it doesn't get editted)

Mounting the sucker, well I read a heap of web sites/forums and ended up with liquid nailing foam inside the hull (see bad photo) with a tight cutout for the transducer. I use warmed up some Petroleum Jelly, stuff some in the hole (no jokes plz) and put the transducer in.

Head unit mount is temporary, and I strongly suggest (if you are as paranoid as me puting extra holes in your yak) that the first few times you do something similar until confident where you want to mount it. On the prowler 13, some bright spark ( :twisted: ) put a second drink holder where the FF should mount so I've been using pool noodle stuff, liquid nails to glue some board to the noodle, then zip tie the mount to the board (see picture, looks neater when pushed all the way in) - sounds odd but works well until my Scotty mounting stuff arrives from the US on Tuesday night. Then I really need to work out where it should go (PS: scotty rod holders here cost $60AU, in the US $20AU (extra $13AU if you want to ship it here rather than getting a mate to carry it)

Well, I think I'm done, hope you're not asleep. Oh, one final note, if anyone has a Matrix FF, don't get ripped off on buying a GPS cable ($40)and then a Computer firmware update cable ($40) a connector and a quick solder and the GPS cable can do both. Contact me if you are interested....

Well gotta get back to replacing the factory leaky hatch (the one between your legs) with a $6.50 one from BCF which doesn't leak. (we pay enough for yak's you'd think they'd at least test them)

Lets hope the weather eases up for next weekend arround Brisie....


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## Marco (Jan 21, 2006)

Thanks for link, hadn't noticed it before.

Something I didn't say above was that I grabbed a few extra Scotty bits since I was able to get them cheap from a mate visiting overseas with a few ideas to try...

I'm not tall and rather wide, and although I've seen a number of web sites putting the scotty mount in that custom area (http://www.anglersafloat.co.uk/KayakProwler.html is a nifty site for prowler 13 people) I've done a bit of testing and it's just too much of a pain in the **** for me to reach confortably. So, I looked at mounting a triple rod holder at the back of the tackle box area and raising it up, but I think it'd be too wide and get in the way.... So, time for some customisation :idea: 
Flush mount maybe at the back at the tackle box area, 6" extension bar, then my own smaller bar to mount the rod holder and FishFinder. All easily removable, but that's all in theory.... I'll wait to see how it looks when I get the stuff tomorrow. Too damn expensive to buy it all in OZ (not even sure if you can get the extension bar here) but I got lucky 

By the way, I found that a cheap Kmart tackle box fits well in the table box spot which has a decent rubber O-ring to stop water getting in. (the larger ones from Kmart say they are waterproof but I've found they leak....badly, but the little one is good)

Keep the ideas rolling, and the fish biting!


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## andybear (Jan 15, 2006)

Hi all.
As I said, I would move my transducer indoors, found a nice spot inside the hull, just aft of the seat position. I gooped up the area with some good grade silicon, and the job seemed just fine. I upended the yak and let the sun heat up the hull, as it would when transported, and it held. Banged the rig around some, and it held. 
Took the yak out of Woody Point yesterday. and The reading was good but.....   after about an hour there was no reading. :shock: The transducer was actually on its side, so I guess there must be more energy kicked out by these suckers, than I thought.
Still, it was a nice day out. didn't catch anything, but there is always next week! I have sanded and cleaned the area again, and used some araldite epoxy. I might even pack it out a bit more with some more silicon so that it drapes the transducer in what is a bit like a "U"section, I hope it does not affect it by loading the top. Time will tell. If that doesn"t work, I might put it outboard again.

Cheers all


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## The Mariner (Aug 23, 2005)

Hi AB,

When glueing/siliconing your transducer down, make sure:

1).. You stick something heavy on top to hold it down while the adhesive sets. This is especially important if using epoxy.

2).. Give it plenty of time to set hard before using it. I'd give silicone 4-5 days & 24 hr. epoxy 6-7 days.

3).. Roughen the hull & mating trans. surface up with coarse sandpaper & clean it religiously with metho.


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## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

Anyone tried bedding a transducer in surf wax? Worth a try. It sticks to the hull and boogie board foam. Could melt it a bit and pour it in. Might be a good semi permanent bonding solution. Only thing is - Does it let the signal pass through it. I dunno?

Last week I installed an FF120 but wanted to make it totally removable. It's similar to Gatesy's concept but the transducer is not permanently mounted. It sits in a housing made from boogie board foam. (The housing was set in place with silicone)

For the battery, I went to dick smith and bought one of those battery packs that links 8 x AA batteries and 3 x 9 volt plug adapters. The battery pack sits in a small drybag with a 9 volt plug adapter coming out of it. I soldered all the wires and then popped on some plastic tubing over the joints and sealed it all with hot melt glue.

See pics:

For a few hours on the water, I just dob some vaseline onto the transducer and pop it in the specaially moulded EVA (boogie board) mount. The battery storage jar is held in place by the hatch and the fishfinder.

I tested it yesterday on the water - works 100%. I was out for 2 hours and still had stacks of battery. For something to do, I immersed the jar in water. No worries there. Only a tiny bit of water got in but the battery pack was totally dry. Rechargable AA's just arrived today.


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## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

Final pic mounted:
Oh yeah, the FF120 main unit is mounted to a detachable berkely rod holder mount (This is because the original mount was stolen with my stink boat). When I'm done fishing, I rotate the Fishfinder and lift it outta the socket. This is a really handy mount because I can attach a berkeley rod holder to the same mount if I couldn't be bothered using the fishfinder.


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2006)

Peril said:


> Dave, arches will be shown by any sounder, provided the transducer is properly mounted. They are a normal consequence of the sound waves reflecting off fish. Many sounders have a fish id feature, which should be turned off as it will have a lot of spurious matches.


Sorry mate, I will have to correct you there. The Piranah Max series of sounders do not have an "arch" display. The arch as you guys call it is called raw sonar. The Piranahs do have raw sonar, but because the pixel count is so low, they fail to display a clean arch. It is actually just a dot or series of dots and because of this, you are better off running on fish ID with these units. I do agree though, fish ID is not as good as raw sonar, but the Piranahs are a good unit for the price, but I would step up into a Matrix 12 or 17 if it were me.- cheers


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## simond11 (Aug 29, 2005)

Hi Davey
This article might also help.

http://www.kayakfishinggear.com/fishfinder.htm

I also looked at the Eagle Fisheasy 245DS, which is a dual sounder. I understand that if you do a lot of saltwater fishing, the dual transducer is a better option, as it gives you a clearer picture.

http://www.eaglegps.com/Products/Sonar/ ... y245DS.htm

Also look at Lowrance

http://www.lowrance.com/Marine/Products/X50DS.asp

Garmin have brought out another Fish Finder and this is dual resolution. I think that if you want to do both freshwater and saltwater fishing, and you have the money, then probably go with the dual transducer.

http://www.gme.net.au/garmin/ff250.php

Hope this helps
Cheers

Simon 
Prowler 15


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## Mallard Duck (Jun 18, 2006)

Gatesy said:


> Also i had plans to use it offshore and although the the manual said waterproof i am sceptical. So i remove the screen and cover the hole with a gap. this also means my plugs aren't exposed to the salt water when crossing the surf line either.


I was speaking to hummninbird and lowrance guys at the boat show about sounders and they said that all (their :?: ) sounders are rated as ix-5( :?: ) which is apparently more of a splash resitance rather than fully submergable. the Magellan GPS on the other hand are rated at ix-7 which is fully waterproof to 1.5m.

He recommended mounting the sounder in a clear plastic box but i think that would be a huge pain in the arse.


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## Sunhobie (Jun 22, 2006)

From my experience with sounders in yaks:
Fish symbols are deceiving. Its better to display raw returns and learn to interpret what they mean.
A sealed lead acid battery is least hassle. 3.0 AH is sufficient (and nice and light)
A single beam unit with fair resolution is all thats necessary.(Remember, this is a kayak and you already have plenty to do without gluing your eyes to a little screen)
GPS interface really is only useful for outside fishing. You can use reliable landmarks for inland fishing
You need to be able to reach the screen to adjust screen angle, gain,range.
Obviously in a paddle kayak, thew display needs to be located so as not to impede paddling action.
I prefer manual range setting to avoid constant screen refreshing because the auto range constantly changes, in the areas I fish.
Avoid models which have huge connector plugs which require big holes in your hull.
Try to hide holes behind existing fittings and use silicon to seal them.
Mount the transducer in a part of the hull that doesn't flex much and where tiedowns are not close. It will regularly peel off otherwise.


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