# is this normal - would you accept it...?



## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

hey guys,

a few weeks ago i ordered in a loomis forcelight to my local tackle store, 
three days later it had arrived, however when i got it home i noticed white stuff around the tip, i rang the shop straight away and told him i would be bringing it back in the morning. He wasnt happy about it and said im being nit picky etc.

I said that i wanted it returned and a new one ordered, well after persuasion he said ok. I left it a week and rang ej todd direct, they told me that they hadnt heard anything, so after nearly a week nothing had been done. I then rang the tackle shop explaining that i needed it by today and a few days later it actually arrived. I also checked with EJ Todd and they advised me that a new one was on the way.

Well i went to collect the rod this afternoon and when i got there i noticed that again there was white stuff on the tip etc, i mentioned it to the guys and i could see they were getting pissed off , they explained that its just glue and it wont impact the performance, he also said its on most of the forcelights hes seen

has anyone else noticed this when buying expensive rods.....! 
to tell you the truth im not real happy now that ive had another good look at home. but i know the guys are not going to do anything about it this time.

heres a few pics, tell us what you think.....is it normal......should it be better.....am I being petty....?
in my opinion i would expect this on a $20 Kmart rod not a loomis....


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2007)

Geez you aren't happy with a Shimano and now not happy with a Loomis. Buy the kmart one, heaps cheaper and better finish. Probably catch you just as many fish.

I reckon they didn't even change it over as they thought you were being fussy, probably the same rod. If its the same shop as where you had the shimano fiasco, they I probably thinking oh no not this guy again.

Why don't you just trim that white stuff off and forget it was ever there?

Honestly I think some of you guys get to hung up on your gear. Just get out there and use it forget about the cosmetics of the things.

Do you ever get out there Ben or do you just buy nice gear?

Yes, I think you a being petty 

Cheers


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## L3GACY (Sep 2, 2007)

I think if you are forking out for a loomis then you would be expecting a very good finish indeed, so i dont blame you. That said, didnt you notice it in the shop before you comitted to buying it? I always check my rods over before i take them home.


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## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

ok guys so next time i buy a bmw when the salesman tells me dont worry about the ding in the side, it wont affect the performance il go with it.


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## L3GACY (Sep 2, 2007)

Hey i agree with your pickiness mate, i just dont think you should have bought it in the first place if you knew about the white stuff.


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## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

the thing is as they didnt have that model i had to order it in, 
when it came in i gave it a quick look over and all looked well (kinda missed the tip).
when i got home i noticed it, 
now with the supposed new rod i saw a little bit of it in the shop and they told me its on all ofthem etc, 
now after taking a few photos etc i am not happy again,

i just think for the money you expect perfection,
as i said if you buy a bmw and then notice a ding you take the bloody thing back dont you,

i just dont know what to do re this....as the guys are probably sick of me......

i might ring loomis and explain things,


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## landyman (Oct 17, 2007)

take it back - demand a refund - and buy a Black Diamond :lol: :lol:

I would not accept that mate.. no matter who the manufacturer - poor quality control like that is unacceptable.

That is just lazy manufacturing.. hope it's not a sign of things to come - does it mention anywhere on the rod where it is made ??


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2007)

Fishing Man said:


> ok guys so next time i buy a bmw when the salesman tells me dont worry about the ding in the side, it wont affect the performance il go with it.


If I ever bought a BMW and I doubt if I ever would, I'd be inspecting it before it left the showroom, not when I got home. 

Cheers


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## polylureosis (Jul 24, 2006)

I have a Loomis Forcelite and I love it.

Couldn't tell you if it has white stuff on it or not.
I can't be bothered to walk the 4 meters to find out because, to be honest, it wouldn't bother me.

It's a fishing tool not a piece of art (although i do caress it from time to time :shock: )
Functionality and performance are the only considerations (Apart from that sexy purple finish 8))

But if you have an issue speak to EJ Todd - Especially if the shop is telling you it's on most of them.


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## fishnfreak (Jun 22, 2007)

if you dont mind me asking, how much is the loomis forcelight, and I agree with you, if you pay for quality, then you should be able to expect that the manufacture is going to give you a quality product, not just in performance, I imagine that the white stuff wont affect the performance, but also in the finish, because in an expensive rod, you want it to be pimpin' :lol:


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## landyman (Oct 17, 2007)

fishnfreak said:


> if you dont mind me asking, how much is the loomis forcelight, and I agree with you, if you pay for quality, then you should be able to expect that the manufacture is going to give you a quality product, not just in performance, I imagine that the white stuff wont affect the performance, but also in the finish, because in an expensive rod, you want it to be pimpin' :lol:


yep - agree...

and when the tip falls off during the mother of all battles.. I reckon you'd be pretty upset.. regardless of whether it affects perfromance or not..

It should not be there - take it back or arrange to send it back to Todd's


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## fishnfreak (Jun 22, 2007)

is it just excess glue from when they puth the tip on, like when the glue squeezes out of the holes in the tip?


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## landyman (Oct 17, 2007)

[the nanny voice on] that not accepable [/the nanny voice off] :lol: :lol:


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

they are a pretty sexy rod, if the guy in the shop hasn't handled one before this could account for the white stuff on the tip


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## landyman (Oct 17, 2007)

keza said:


> they are a pretty sexy rod, if the guy in the shot hasn't handled one before this could account for the white stuff on the tip


bada bing bada boom :lol: :lol:

messed my coffee.. mate for what they cost.. there should be NO imperfections on the rod anywhere


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## Biggera Yakker (Jan 25, 2007)

I wouldn't accept it if I wasn't happy with it!
Go with your heart Ben, if you're not happy, give 'em hell!!!


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## Guest (Nov 23, 2007)

MacFish said:


> Fishing Man said:
> 
> 
> > ok guys so next time i buy a bmw when the salesman tells me dont worry about the ding in the side, it wont affect the performance il go with it.
> ...


I'd love to know how long it would take you to inspect your new BMW (inside, outside, AND mechanically) before you were happy and took it home.
Would also love to see your reaction when you realised you missed something and the BMW dealer told you to get over it as it wasnt affecting the performance :lol:

Bottom line is, the customer shouldnt have to inspect every square inch of the product in the first place.....thats why good manufacturers have QC (Quality Control) as its their responsiblity not the customers.

Ben, your paying for a premium product......so you should receive one I reckon 8)


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## roydsy (Nov 20, 2007)

lol good call.

But seriously poor form such an expensive rod. Money back i would ask for.


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Mate if i were you just call up EJ Todds and tell them how you feel - that you paid quality but the finnish looks a bit shonky and thats not what you were expecting when buying from a highly regarded rod builder. Tell him you hope that its only cosmetic but not sure. Ask nicely for a nice clean finnished rod and if they say no (because its mechanically A1) then tell them that you wont be buying Loomis again. That you held them in high regard but now that has been tainted by the finnishing of their products.

Simple

Get your new rod and then go fishing - rub pilchard guts into the cork and then spray it squid ink and then rub cunje juice into the guides :lol:


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

tell them that you put the question up on a fishing forum and no one else has had this problem yet !
that will make them think about it


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## crazyratwoman (Feb 26, 2007)

rofl Keza! :lol: quite a good shot if thats true lmao!


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## bazzoo (Oct 17, 2006)

Nah Ben , no way you should have to accept a sub standard product just because some of the others are like that , Loomois have a great name , and i'm sure if you politely and quietly push the point that your not accepting a sub standard rod they will "find " a good one , if not , you make noises like talking to consumer affairs , it will get results , but Ben dont give up on it mate .


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## timax (Oct 16, 2007)

What is this white stuff exactly?
Is it glue , corrosion or wax?


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## aleg75 (Dec 20, 2005)

bazzoo said:


> Nah Ben , no way you should have to accept a sub standard product just because some of the others are like that , Loomois have a great name , and i'm sure if you politely and quietly push the point that your not accepting a sub standard rod they will "find " a good one , if not , you make noises like talking to consumer affairs , it will get results , but Ben dont give up on it mate .


Agreed! nothing worse than spending money on quality only to be disapointed, good luck though, it's a painful process to go through, but hopfully it all works out in the end.


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## camel (Oct 4, 2005)

I've never been impressed with the fit and finish of every Loomis I've ever laid my hands on. At the end of the day a factory built Loomis is just another mass produced factory built rod and they usually have a build quality to match. Then again I've seen allot of cheaper mass produced factory rods with a better fit and finish and better quality components than Loomis. Which is disappointing considering the money you are forking out. 
But your paying for a high quality, high performance blank and that is where Loomis excel. Next time track down a good local rod builder, get him to order in the Loomis blank and build it with high end components.

Regards

Anthony


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

Hmm Hinze isnt good enough for you and now Loomis aren't the goods, your tough man, fisher man.

Hey Sel, "TACT" is not one of your strong points is it mate. :? :lol: . I guess your missus is quite happy for you to go fishing when she wants to go clothes shopping. :lol:


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## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

StevenM said:


> What is the such white stuff Ben
> 
> Have you tried to remove it in any way
> 
> ...


mate the guide looks straight, and tip is secure, 
the white stuff looks like its oxidising in one corner, ie: its kinda bubly and not smooth and glossy like i would expect glue to be.
the more i think about it the more i reckon its the same rod


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## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

fishnfreak said:


> if you dont mind me asking, how much is the loomis forcelight, and I agree with you, if you pay for quality, then you should be able to expect that the manufacture is going to give you a quality product, not just in performance, I imagine that the white stuff wont affect the performance, but also in the finish, because in an expensive rod, you want it to be pimpin' :lol:


the forcelight is RRP $325
ive seen them over $400 in some shops though.


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## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

Dallas said:


> MacFish said:
> 
> 
> > Fishing Man said:
> ...


well thats what i thought Dallas, thanks for the support mate,
the whole reason i went with the loomis was because i thought they were one of the best and i would get a perfect rod with a great warranty, 
well the warranty is still there, but ive been dicked around and the quality of the rod build leaves a lot to be desired.

my question to all those who disagree, ie: Sel, 
why would a $100 Raider be better built than a $350 Loomis..........?
i would have thought the moreyou pay the better the product, 
the saying is you get what you pay for isnt it....


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## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

timax said:


> What is this white stuff exactly?
> Is it glue , corrosion or wax?[/quote}
> hard to say mate, looks white in patches and clear in others,
> the corner is bubly etc, like burned plastic kinda.
> so i cant really say what it is, the guys in the shop say its glue.


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## camel (Oct 4, 2005)

The money is in the blank with loomis (and in my opinion worth it). Most light loomis have Fuji Alconite guides, the same ones as many cheaper factory rods like the Raiders and others. I wouldn't expect the build quality to be any different your paying for the name and a quality blank. They are just a factory built rod and tend to be put together the same as their cheaper contemporaries. 
But having said that the problem with the tip guide or more to the point the service you got from your tackle shop is not acceptable.


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## Billybob (Aug 29, 2005)

Ben, you are probably are being a bit picky but that's ok.

G-Loomis got their name by setting high standards so it's only reasonable to expect the best.

I don't understand the retailer in this case. He knew what was concerning you but was quite happy to give you a 'replacement' that had the same imperfection.

If you're not happy, return it, get your money back and shop elsewhere.


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## Hard Yakka (Aug 15, 2006)

Hey Benny.

Buy a blank and build the rod yourself. I did a few a long time ago and the feeling of accomplishment is undescribable.

Do the homework (backbone, locating the runners/guides, spring etc,), build it and then cast it.

Be carefull, perfection may be addictive.


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## Guest (Nov 23, 2007)

Take it back get another one if that makes you happy 

I still think you are being petty as that what you asked us in your initial post. 
Just my opinion even though it differs with 99 percent of the replies here.

I'm just not as fussy as you.

I bought a Jackall MAsk Vibe last week for the first time ever. Everyone warned me to be carefull when taking the packing apart as the finish on the lure may peel off. Well when I did take the packing off it did peel. 
So I have a brand new lure with a little of the finish peeled off it, big deal. After a few uses of it being dragged over the bottom it will be worse and do you think the fish won't bite because its missing a bit of paint in one spot, I doubt it. 

Your rod with a bit of extra on the tip, will it effect the fish,no. Only your well being.

Like I said take it back if thats what makes you happy in the end, however if it was me I wouldn't be worried 

Gee imagine the world if we all didnt have different views.

Good luck I hope it works out the way you want it to. 8)

Cheers


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## Heath (Nov 15, 2006)

Hard Yakka said:


> Hey Benny.
> 
> Buy a blank and build the rod yourself. I did a few a long time ago and the feeling of accomplishment is undescribable.
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree more. I build all my own rods now, some on Loomis blanks. You get a rod tailored to your own style and liking. When building up a loomis blank, you can actually save money by building it yourself.

As hard yakka says, VERY ADDICTIVE....


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## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

what about returning it, 
is there a loophole as it was ordered in specifically.....?

am i just as entitled to return it.. as if it were on the shelf.

i might just return it and get it elsewhere, i saw some yesterday which look better


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## Astro (Nov 27, 2006)

just caught up with this thread.....

if i spent $400 on a fishing rod i would expect perfection......

even a slight cosmetic issue like you have would be something to have dealt with....the retailer should have known better than to give you another without checking...

loomis are good rods but there are others....why not try them....personally i think loomis are sold because of a reputation gained over the years....and suspect the production of these (as mentioned) has been compremised to meet demand...

sel as for peeling of a $20+ lure by taking it out of the package, that i would find unacceptable....then again i catch heaps on the cheapies anyway.....


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Fisherman - just call up EJ Todds and tell them mate - its that simple! If you like the rod but dont like the crumby finish then tell them - see if they can find you a perfect one - if not ask for your money back. It wouldnt worry me too much as long as the rod did its job - but you have every right to get one thats 100%. I'm sure EJ Todds wants a happy customer and not one who feels that has a bad rep for the finish of the rods and its customer service. When I called them there I found them quite friendly so I'm sure they will listen even if the guy in the shop wont.........


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## ms (Oct 16, 2006)

alot off your top rods are made on the same blank as you cheaper $100 rods painted a diffrent colour alot of times you pay for the name . AND THAT A FACT 
MARK


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## hairymick (Oct 18, 2005)

G'day Ben,

Mate, I tend to agree with Sel on this one. But then I don't buy top of the line rods. I use the hell out of mine and when they are stuffed, I either re-build them or replace them.

I hope this works out for you but honestly, I just can't see the value in paying that sort of money for a rod. i reckon all you are paying for is the name.

I have been using "Kandji" rods that I get of ebay for around 20 bucks. They work a treat, The finish is faultless and I HAVE NEVER HAD ONE FAIL even when playing serious fish.

Just because you are paying more money, doesn't necessarily mean you will get a better rod IMHO.

The parasites are not so likely to break into your car or house to steal a cheap rod either.


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## Latitude (Nov 17, 2007)

[Mod: Edit]


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## Guest (Nov 24, 2007)

I think it's a disgrace when retailers openly get the shits when something is amiss with a recent purchase. What are they trying to do? intimidate people into not bringing something back and just accepting it? I'm sorry but this is one of my pet hates. I get sick of hearing about this type of thing happening.

I don't thinki there is anything wrong with being fussy. Most large retailers don't blink an eye if you return something.

Don't mean to hijack this thread but just yesterday (you are going to laugh at this - and I expect to get harsh criticism from some people here about this  )
but just yesterday I went into a Ritzy coffee shop at Carindale and ordered an Ice Coffee(Ice coffee with a dob of ice-creram and topped with cream. 20 minutes later the coffee arrives and the girls says, sorry but we are out of cream. OK I thought, that's a bit slack but I can live with it. I simply made one comment to my wife that I am paying for the lot but they are not giving me the lot. I'm just getting basically cold coffee with a dob of ice cream (and you pay between $5-$6 usually- (didn't actually look at the receipt- might have been $7) More than a standard coffee anyway.
Anyway, 10 minutes later a person at a table next to me had the same order arrive with guess what? topped with cream. Excuse me, I said to a different girl this time but is that cream on the top of that. Yes. I was told you were out of cream. Oh yes she said, we were but we just make more when we run out.Look, no big deal I said but I wouldn't have minded waiting 10 minutes for some as that is what I ordered.I just thougt you completely run out. With that she turned around , walked off and continued serving other people.

I couldn't believe what I was hearing and seeing! :shock: I won't go back there again (except to ask for a free one next time)


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## bazzoo (Oct 17, 2006)

[Mod: Edit]

Latitude, I suggest you might like to investigate the overall tone of this forum before you fire off broadsides like that on your 4 th post ,as Gra indicated , we do try to keep things VERY friendly on here, and we also respect the right of any individual to ask for advice on matters of gear or tackle, personal attacks are a BIG no no here , i'm sure that wasnt your intent , but its worth keeping this advice in mind for the future


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## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

[Mod: Edit]

Whatever...


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2007)

> How were you planning on using it without getting the grips wet?


I don't think the grip is what's under scrutiney here.

I would never have dared say all that stuff on my 4th Newbie post. I still regard myself a newbie but I feel I can poke my head from under my rock a bit more than when I was brand new here.  People also get to know you a little more.


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## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

its soo funny when these newbies rock up and try to throw their weight around straight up.
They obviously have no idea and didnt bother to read the post properly, 
the grips were never in mention, i guess a novice like this probably doesnt even know what a loomis is haha.

[Mod: Edit]


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## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

well we phoned the store in question this morning and explained that we were still unhappy with things and they said it was ok to bring the rod back for a replacement. Well 20k up the road when we arrived they said no!, no way was a refund happening as it is not a fault and therefore not refundable. 
I later phoned them re the issue and explained the whole thing again and stressed that all i want is a refund and I will be on my way a happy man, well more mucking around and I was told i need to deal with the manager on tuesday.

It was kinda funny, the guy at the store told me that i hurried them and thats why it probably wasnt built right, he said they needed to wait for it to be built.
I then told him that its done in the states, he then said yeah but they still needed to build it, i then said mate its a factory rod (learn the product before you sell it and especially before you start saying what is and isnt a fault)

Well EJ Todd will be recieving a call tomorrow along with an email with links to the two forums i have posted on and photos of the tip.
I will also be in touch with consumer affairs.

Does anyone know my rights re just having my purchase refunded.
Obviously the rod isnt used, all the stickers are still on and I have the reciept.

any tips.


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## wolfy (Apr 27, 2007)

Hi. Yes you are being a little picky, but hey, you can afford a top build/brand, you like to have a quality product and you have paid for exactly that - so that is what you should have. Will it fish any better than another rod? Maybe, maybe not, it is not the issue. The issue is that it is supposed to be a top quality item so at a top price it should actually "be" top quality.

I'd probably do the same as you. I dunno why people get so precious over these things, you are not saying you are better or it is better or it will catch more, just that should a minor imperfection be acceptable in a premium priced item?

The fault may be very minor, but it is still a fault and you are entitled to a refund or replacement.

What the retailler has said is so much rubbish it is laughable.

I'm sure the distributer/agent will try to see you are happy.

Stand your ground and insist on being satisfied, or fall in love with another brand!


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

Fishing Man said:


> Does anyone know my rights re just having my purchase refunded.
> Obviously the rod isnt used, all the stickers are still on and I have the reciept.
> 
> any tips.


Differs from state to state. As your complaint is about cosmetics, you left the store with it and you are not claiming that the rod is not fit for purpose you basically have no additional rights. Many retailers will offer a refund only as a gesture of good will. Many people think they have more rights than they actually do


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## landyman (Oct 17, 2007)

ms said:


> alot off your top rods are made on the same blank as you cheaper $100 rods painted a diffrent colour alot of times you pay for the name . AND THAT A FACT
> MARK


sorry mate - that is *not* a fact :roll:

your cheaper rods i.e. $100 will have blanks that are mass produced in China or Taiwan or Thailand

your $300+ rods (depending on brand) will more than likely have a blank produced in the US or UK or even Japan

and how do you paint a graphite blank - grey is grey ??

FM - I believe that they are not obliged to give refund as it is not faulty in function.. hopefully you get som luck from Todd's

then call Steve Ross (ex Aus Loomis designer/builder) and he will make you a rod that is more intune with what you expect fo $400 :mrgreen:


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## camel (Oct 4, 2005)

Landyman

Many graphite production rods are painted. As are many blanks, you can special order colored blanks from Graphite USA. Pacific Composites do blue blanks I have used "and scratched  "

You are rite about giving Steve Ross a call. His range of rods are very nice.

Regards

Anthony


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## camel (Oct 4, 2005)

Another thing I forgot, is G Loomis rods are now owned by Shimano. Many well know rod companies have built blanks for big name tackle companies. Shimanos Ian Miller Millennium Series rods from a few years back were built on Loomis IM6 blanks. So there is some truth in what ms said.


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## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

i would like to give Steve a call but at this stage it looks like im going to have a hard time getting a refund.

I personally cant understand it, i still have a retail job on weekends (pocket money)
and cant understand how or why they are treating me like this, I know all too well how easy it is to refund a good customer,

I told him today its no skin off their back to refund me, 
his response was that they would be losing a sale,

I try to look at the bigger picture, one sale or many many sales over many years, not only from me but all my mates and fishing buddys I reccommend the place to, and up until now i have told a lot of people about this store and how great they are.

To me its simple, the customers always right, especially one thats in the shop a couple of times a week spending his hard earned.
answer = Refund.


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## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

StevenM said:


> Fishing Man said:
> 
> 
> > i might just return it and get it elsewhere, i saw some yesterday which look better
> ...


Steven, 
No white stuff and a nicer finish on the tip, 
I know its not a big deal but i just want exactly whay i paid for.....and thats not a sloppy, dodgy finish on the tip of the rod,
you know what i mean,


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## landyman (Oct 17, 2007)

camel said:


> Landyman
> 
> Many graphite production rods are painted. As are many blanks, you can special order colored blanks from Graphite USA. Pacific Composites do blue blanks I have used "and scratched  "
> 
> ...


I always thought it was the blank colour i.e. the graphite was coloured in production - not paint..



camel said:


> Another thing I forgot, is G Loomis rods are now owned by Shimano. Many well know rod companies have built blanks for big name tackle companies. Shimanos Ian Miller Millennium Series rods from a few years back were built on Loomis IM6 blanks. So there is some truth in what ms said.


yes - but I doubt they would use that blank in any of their Loomis range.. but we'll never know as not many manufacturers will tell you the make and model of your blank.. only a select few custom builders will furnish you with those details.. but I also believe it has a lot to do with what your builder does with the blank..

lets see what happens tomorrow - i'll be surprised if you dont get a positive outcome from Todd's


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## camel (Oct 4, 2005)

Landyman

Your rite coloring a blank can be done via coloring the graphite and it can also be painted straight on the outside of the blank. A few that come to mind are the Raiders, Starlo stix and a number of the higher end daiwa range.


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Fishingman - cal Todds but I wouldnt get their backs up unless you have to ie dont mention your post on here untill its a last resort - because the damage is done then.They will be pissed off I think..... I'm sure like I said they will replace it based on the finish..... see how it goes - I always the thought the suppliers / retailers would be more arsey than the main men Todds - GOOD LUCK

This has been a mountain :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: I hope you get where you need to go

A few things I'm hoping has been learned

Cost does NOT equate to finish.

Blanks can be great but finish can be crap.

Check the rod before you leave the store - inspect the thing from top to bottom

Regards

Woppie


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## Latitude (Nov 17, 2007)

Tempting to leave this one alone, but, seeing as the questions were asked in the original post "would you accept it" - I'll answer yes. and "Am I [Fishing Man] being petty?" - absolutely. In case you hadn't already guessed. I did read all the posts before sticking my neck out before, but come on guys, really. I see the moderator has deleted the original reply anyway - presumably deemed to be a personal attack - but if the guy asks the question "am I?" and gets a negative answer, well, it's kind of invited.

[Fishing Man] later tells me "the grips were never in mention, i guess a novice like this probably doesnt even know what a loomis is haha." - so for the record, I have several Loomis rods, don't know how many - four or five or six, some factory built and some custom. I don't use them much any more, on to other rods now and never get around to selling old gear. My comment about the grips was evidently too obtuse; it was in reference to 'if you're worried about a bit of something on the tip, how are you going to cope when the grips get dirty?'

I'll try to maintain a smile on this :? , but people being ridiculously petty about unimportant things is obviously something that annoys me. First things first, most factory Loomis rods have very ordinary fittings. If you wanted that rod to be better than it was, you would have done the world a small favour by saying to the store, 'that's a bad finish - how about you stick on a decent tip for me' - and if you hadn't already screwed them to death on the price, they would probably have been quite happy (and may still be happy) to replace the tip with a decent Fuji FST or ICFST. Then you would have a better rod and they might not have even charged you for it (as you're such a good customer).

I might be a newb at posting but I've fished for long enough and bought plenty of gear, so to clarify some of the other stuff here... manufacturers can't colour graphite, it's grey. They tint-varnish, or paint, blanks to make them other colours. Fibreglass is different because the fibre is clear and they can colour the resin. It doesn't work that way with graphite.

Rather than beat your chest about your rights, how about letting us know what the store has to say if you ask them to just fit a better tip, to save the hassle?


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2007)

> I told him today its no skin off their back to refund me,
> his response was that they would be losing a sale,


That is total BS!


> I try to look at the bigger picture, one sale or many many sales over many years, not only from me but all my mates and fishing buddys I reccommend the place to, and up until now i have told a lot of people about this store and how great they are.


Exactly, it's the principal of it also. They have lost many sales now by the looks of things. I hate people like that. It's just a form of bullying really. I took something back to a tackle store one day because it was faulty. I ended up spending more money and buying a better item.
They have obviously forgotten that fact. Keep a customer happy, be their friend(even if it is all fake) and the customer will come back. Don't kill the goose that lays the golden egg or cut down the tree that bares the most fruit.  


> My comment about the grips was evidently too obtuse; it was in reference to 'if you're worried about a bit of something on the tip, how are you going to cope when the grips get dirty?'


Everything wears out or gets dirty. I have had my Kayak for about 1 month and it already has scratches and dirt has filled the pores on parts of the hull, BUT I would never have accepted that Kayak if it came like that. If something is going to have faults or worn parts it's going to on my terms and caused my use of it NOT come like that when I buy it new.


> and if you hadn't already screwed them to death on the price,


That's a terrible assumption.  


> Rather than beat your chest about your rights,


 :shock: No Comment............... :roll:


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## landyman (Oct 17, 2007)

Latitude said:


> Tempting to leave this one alone, but, seeing as the questions were asked in the original post "would you accept it" - I'll answer yes. and "Am I [Fishing Man] being petty?" - absolutely. In case you hadn't already guessed. I did read all the posts before sticking my neck out before, but come on guys, really. I see the moderator has deleted the original reply anyway - presumably deemed to be a personal attack - but if the guy asks the question "am I?" and gets a negative answer, well, it's kind of invited.
> 
> [Fishing Man] later tells me "the grips were never in mention, i guess a novice like this probably doesnt even know what a loomis is haha." - so for the record, I have several Loomis rods, don't know how many - four or five or six, some factory built and some custom. I don't use them much any more, on to other rods now and never get around to selling old gear. My comment about the grips was evidently too obtuse; it was in reference to 'if you're worried about a bit of something on the tip, how are you going to cope when the grips get dirty?'
> 
> ...


jeez - obviously not trying to make friends here then..

why would you get a local rod repairer to replace the tip when the item should have been properly done to start with.. as Zone said - if it is going to get scrathed etc it's going to be on his terms.. not Loomis' terms.. being "rediculously petty about unimportant things" is annoying - I'll give you that - HOWEVER, it is not for us to say what is petty or not.. a small scratch on the exopy - yes petty.. a small twist in a decorative binding - yes petty.. but I dont think that a poorly mounted tip guide and shoddy finish is petty at all..

If ANY of my BD's arrived like that (which the never would) - they'd be going right back to Steve.. but he wouldn't ever dream of selling a rod that looked like that as it's his name on the line..

out of interest what other rods have you moved onto after you Loomis' and why did you change ??


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Just been checking my Loomis GL2 - this was a cheaper one and the finish is great - all blue and sexy no white goo !!!!!!

YET :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Latitude (Nov 17, 2007)

> why would you get a local rod repairer to replace the tip when the item should have been properly done to start with


Hmm, and I get accused of not reading things properly!? I suggested that if he wants the rod to be better, he might as well get a top quality tip on it instead of the second-rate one that it comes with (white stuff or not) - kills two birds with one stone. It might not even cost him anything. Others would prefer to just complain, that is their choice.



> it is not for us to say what is petty or not


Yes it is, he asked.



> what other rods


Latest acquisition was a Daiwa Steez Stormshadow; why? because it's pretty (certainly didn't need it!), will put a Certate 2500R on that, and next will be something to go nicely witha Branzino I've had for months and still haven't put line on. Maybe a Kingbolt there. Daiwa are certainly up there with these kind of rods. I built a Calstar GX7 for a tough saltwater knockaround lurecaster to go with a Certate 3500HD - that's what I use most.



> and if you hadn't already screwed them to death on the price - That's a terrible assumption.


Terrible assumption? I don't think so - I read some of his other posts. I have to refrain from commenting further, it would get all this good work deleted!


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## sitonit (Dec 29, 2006)

Hi Ben I have been following this post a bit and I can understand what you are saying as you feel $400 is an expensive rod but I havent heard much mention of how it fishes and for me thats what it would be all about unless the rod is damaged why not have a fish with it thats what it was made for, I own one loomis rod and I have never really looked at it that close, the first thing i did was put a casting plug on and have a feel at what I had spent my money on, after that what it looked like didnt really matter.


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2007)

:shock: $400 is expensive for a rod. I wouldn't even dream of using it if I wasn't happy with it and wanted to take it back. Hard to do that if you say, well I've actually used it half a dozen time but.........

I'm sure once the problem gets sorted we'll hear about the fishing.

I thought my $199 Daiwa rod was expensive. :lol:


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## landyman (Oct 17, 2007)

any news yet mate... ???


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2007)

Fishing Man said:


> the forcelight is RRP $325
> ive seen them over $400 in some shops though.


Fishingman mentioned on another site that he paid 295 for it. Sounds better than 400. 

Cheers


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2007)

> Just want to get this post to 6 pages and 1000 views...


This is my record: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11053

104 Posts and 1128 Views


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## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

hey guys,

today i phoned EJ Todd and explained the situation, 
I also sent through an email with photos and links to the forums ive posted on, 
they were apologetic and agreed there was definately a problem, and I was well within my rights to return the item.
they then phoned the store and apparently they will give me a refund as a last resort.
however i took his offer of checking through all the stock and personally finding a good one to send me as a replacement.
EJ Todd then phoned me an hour or so later and advised me that of the 1/2 dozen in stock he managed to find one with all straigh guides and nice finish, however it was not built on the backbone. Not knowing exactly what this means i said dont worry about it il get the refund, it was obviously enough to warrant them calling me so a bit disappointed but il be getting the $$ back tomorrow when the store manager returns,

I also phoned consumer affairs in Brisbane and explained the whole situation, 
seems im entitled to a refund anyways, the guy was adament that I should get my $$ back, 
he emailed me the fair trading act for me to use as ammo and reccommended that as a last resort i file the compaint should he not want to play the game.

so all looks ok, lot of mucking around but I should what i deserve, 
just dont know if it will be a quality loomis from another store or the money to ponder about whether i get a loomis at all.

oh by the way i was on the phone to a mate tonite I noticed that inside one of the guides there are a few small chips and a big lump of epoxy,
so if i had kept this one the time would come when it burns the braid out or breaks mid fight.


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## landyman (Oct 17, 2007)

well that is a good outcome if the store plays nice..

so, what rod are you going to get now ???

as I mentioned - take a look at Steve Ross's rods at http://www.blackdiamondrods.com - you will not be dissapointed - as used by Matt Mott to win last weeks televised AFC round..

good luck tomorrow


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## Dodge (Oct 12, 2005)

Fishing Man said:


> it was not built on the backbone. Not knowing exactly what this means


Ben when a blank is removed from the mandrel on which it was rolled, it will want to comfortably curve only one way and that is the backbone, and a custom builder will position the runners along the line of the backbone when building the rod


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## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

Dodge said:


> Fishing Man said:
> 
> 
> > it was not built on the backbone. Not knowing exactly what this means
> ...


thanks Richo 
would it have much impact on the performance or use if it wasnt on the backbone?


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## polylureosis (Jul 24, 2006)

Fishing Man said:


> would it have much impact on the performance or use if it wasn't on the backbone?


It depends on the blank (some have a stronger backbone than others) and the use.

on a baitcaster/overhead it is probably more important.

As under load the rod may want to twist (so the bend was in line with the backbone) and you would feel like you were fighting the rod and the fish.

From what I have read some rod builders locate the guides on top of the backbone and some underneath (very few to one side). One gives a stiffer felling rod.


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## timax (Oct 16, 2007)

Hey Fisher Man, If your looking for a different rod I just had a look at a SMITH ltd rod out of Japan. Beautiful! And thenthere are Miller rods and Mega Bass.
http://www.australianangling.com.au/STR ... OURLER.htm
http://www.millerods.com/rods.html
http://www.megabassusa.com/Destroyer%20Rods.htm


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## yellahunter (Oct 16, 2005)

got the refund today so back to square one, 
at least they did the right thing in the end.

now which rod to go for....?


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Nitro Innovator


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## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

hey guys that was me above, 
accidently logged in on the old account.

so nitro are the go hey.. how have you found them wopfish, 
a guy on ausfish told me to avoid them and they were made in china....so im still pretty undecided


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## Guest (Nov 27, 2007)

Glad to hear you got it all sorted Ben 8)


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## landyman (Oct 17, 2007)

Black Diamond... made right here in Oz (NSW) by Steve Ross...

I know I harp on it a little, but they are not available in shops and often people miss out on a true work of art and function as they dont have flashy ads in mags etc..

Steve Ross is the man in my opinion.. he was the reason Loomis was what they were up until he left..

Not sure what sort of rod you are after.. line weight and action ??

take a look on their site 8)


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## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

had a look on the BD website, 
only thing you cant see too much detail and I dont know where i can get a better look at one,


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## landyman (Oct 17, 2007)

Fishing Man said:


> had a look on the BD website,
> only thing you cant see too much detail and I dont know where i can get a better look at one,


contact one of the BD Pro Team members - they have a range of their rods for display purposes..

I bought my 1st BD - a 1-3kg clear cut - sight unseen, based on reviews on a bream forum and comments from other anglers I trust... never looked back.. sold my equivalent Nitro on ebay..

I now own 4 black diamonds...

Steve Ross does not make rubbish - his name is on the line and they like the personal contact with the end user..


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## Guest (Nov 27, 2007)

Ben

Why don't you start a new thread if you are going to decide which rod you want now 

Cheers


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## Fishing Man (Oct 4, 2006)

MacFish said:


> Ben
> 
> Why don't you start a new thread if you are going to decide which rod you want now
> 
> Cheers


coz im going for a record here, lol

nah just kidding, 
i thought it was kinda related so il see what happens


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Fishingman re Nitro - no problems yet with mine - solid - good finish - good warranty - couldnt give a f=ck if it was made in china or usa or aus - as long as its good - and I think it is for the price. By the sounds of things you might want to go custom built - which Ive never done - but like i said get your reel and stick it on a rod or two and see what feels good. Budget wise it sounds like you can get something tailor made or get top notch off the rack

Woppie


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