# What features do you want/need on a yak rod?



## Joffa (Nov 8, 2007)

*NB While affiliated with a commercial business, the intent is purely for research/development of new product and not meant to be a marketing effort. MODs pls kill if in breach of site rules

Hi all, having been messing around with making a specific yak rod for a while now.
Thinking of maybe importing a design or two....grand designs I know, but if you are interested in contributing, please let me know your ideas! If it happens, AKFF'ers will get special price!
Thoughts so far...
All carbon, single foot guides. Cork grips. Hook keeper and a ring to attach your leash to. What do you think of the leash attachment point as a concept? Want all fuji guides, was thinking of the new Fuji 'comfort' spinning reel seat.

























These are a couple Ive had made up, except I think the leash attachment should go above the fore grip, and on the oppsoite side to the reel. Down low works fine for me on my RAM mounts, but no good for flush mounts and tubes!

Length are 7 foot. Has anyone broken a fancy carbon rod with a big fish yak side? Was thinking might need to go for a lower carbon content blank to give the rod more flexibility when trying to land a fish, but this makes the rod heavier.

Looking at an Ultra light 1-3kg and a 4-6kg stick. Does this sound about right or should we go a heavy stick as well?

Might be looking for some field testers......

Joffa!


----------



## theclick (Jun 25, 2007)

The leash attachment point looks good. Is it being down the bottom going to become an issue for those of us who use flush mount rod holders? I'd suggest maybe a 2pc, for stowage reasons.


----------



## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

I use mostly Nitros... they are good for the following reasons

They have quite a flexible tip for long casts..

Grunt down the bottom end...

Length on the butt for lifting / fighting fish

They look good - all black

Never had one break on me - although Ive hi sticked them..

If they do break they have a good warranty on them.....

What they lack is....

A hook keeper.....

A point to attach the leash.........

To be picky

The fuji guides are not the top of the range........ hasnt been an issue though...

I hope this is of some help - I make no apologies for using the Nitros as a comparison.... as a find these hard to beat....... Ive owned Daiwas and seen Shimanos that have snapped when hi sticked or have had issues on the yak.... both were replaced by the suppliers...... never seen or heard of a Nitro busting though......

Ive paid between the 230 - 300 for the Nitros... dont think I'd pay anymore for a yak rod......

Good luck - cant wait to see / hear of your progress - happy to test run your product

Woppie


----------



## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

One thought - maybe the hook keeper and rod leash attachment could be one and the same ????


----------



## Joffa (Nov 8, 2007)

I use Nitro's myself, Ive got 5 of em!
However I dont want to lose them and wanted to come up with a yak fisher designed rod at a reasonable cost!


----------



## GoneFishn (May 17, 2007)

why not incorporate what wopfish said about the leash point and hook keeper in one but also have the lower leash point too. Would they be 2 piece or 1, I personally would prefer 2 piece for ease of storage in yak.


----------



## Joffa (Nov 8, 2007)

Ive got three at the moment, light, medium and heavy, all two piece with carbon/carbon ferrules. Cheap guides and seats at the moment to keep costs down, but have been giveing them a flick and seem very good! Will look into hook keepr/leash point. Makes sense!


----------



## adventurelover (Dec 5, 2007)

can you make baitcasters as well? if so were do i get one  
is it possible to make them shorter for bassing in tight water?
Ango


----------



## Guest (Nov 22, 2008)

The low attachment point sucks for all those who use light spinn stuff and throw plastiks.
An attachment point close to reel seat/ turnig point of the rod is mutch less to feel, and disturbs casting less.
Down there it flicks and dangels more and hits more around.
I´ve got a leash right on the reelseat and then10cm rope then the quick release clip.
Hand around rod and rope (4mm/ opposite the reel), clip at wrist-height.
So I dont feel it at all (rope/ clip dont move).
2 piece Rods mutch easier to handle and store away, and when well made, not mutch performance loss.

Test it any time.. ;-)


----------



## Blaen (Jul 4, 2006)

Joffa said:


> These are a couple Ive had made up, except I think the leash attachment should go above the fore grip, and on the oppsoite side to the reel. Down low works fine for me on my RAM mounts, but no good for flush mounts and tubes!Joffa!


I went out to have a look at the Outback (I use the flush mounts) I tied a leash off near the base and it did make it a bit of a task to get out of the holder. I usually attach my leash just behind the reel and have never had any issues with it getting in the way.

As previously mentioned a hook keeper would be agood addition, they have a good long butt please keep them that way 



Joffa said:


> Length are 7 foot. Has anyone broken a fancy carbon rod with a big fish yak side? Was thinking might need to go for a lower carbon content blank to give the rod more flexibility when trying to land a fish, but this makes the rod heavier.Joffa!


7 foot is perfect IMHO, and yes I have broken a carbon rod on not that big a fish really, just a really tough fighter.



Joffa said:


> Looking at an Ultra light 1-3kg and a 4-6kg stick. Does this sound about right or should we go a heavy stick as well? Joffa!


Those 2 wieghts suit my fishing, you may want to look at a heavier stick for the bigger species, but for most of us I reckon you are on the money.



Joffa said:


> Might be looking for some field testers......
> 
> Joffa!


Always happy to be a crash test dummy ;-)


----------



## zipper (Feb 27, 2008)

i recon the sizes that you have are great for what i want, which is mainly flicking plastics. but occasionally i want to do a bit of bait soaking, or troll some lures or go for biger fish, like gunny sharks. for this reason i recon you should add a 6-8kilo rod in there aswell as that should cover most feilds of fishing.
what the others have been saying about a 2 piece would be great as it is easier to store and transport, and correct me if i'm wrong but wit ha 2 piece there is less chance of breaking it during transport.

as for price i would be looking at paying about 100-170 for a yak rod, as that way, if it some how gets lost over the yak, or broken its not a huge loss.

the leash point i recon should be just behind the reel seat as everyone else has said, this way it will suit most scotty style holders and it would be flush mount friendly, it should also be easy to manage. that is where i leash my rods. although another place to leash it would be just above the grips, on the blank.

as for me i will be more than happy to be a tester :lol:

cheers


----------



## Joffa (Nov 8, 2007)

Thanks all! Yes to baitcasters! - little tricker due to pistol grip, but doable!

As for leash attachment point, will work on that, it seems to be the hot point. With standard reel seats, it will probably have to go just above the reel seat or just below - most of my rods balance just forward of the reel, so guess thats the spot. The issue will be how to finish of the fore grip so it looks ok, or get some sort of reel seat with a loop moulded in. Will talk to my rod builder! May need something made....

As for testers, I need to show a few stores first to find out whether they would buy first, as production runs would need to be around 200, so I need to know that I can recover costs. Once Ive done that, I would love those who have contacted me to try the rods and put em through their paces! Need to know that the blanks and actions Ive choosen suit!

Thanks all for your advice, keep it coming!

Joffa


----------



## GoneFishn (May 17, 2007)

So are you offering a free trial period :lol:


----------



## Joffa (Nov 8, 2007)

You're in with a better chance tha most coz you're in Melb!!! (And you contribute alot to the site!)


----------



## Blaen (Jul 4, 2006)

Joffa,

I know it's early days yet, but what price range are you looking at?

I know a lot of people use Loomis and Nitros etc etc. but if I am being honest I sruggle to spend any more than $125 on a rod these days.


----------



## Joffa (Nov 8, 2007)

Im hoping to be around $120AUD, but it really depends on qty that I order and how many I think I can sell....some risk!
The blanks are top quality, and now having dealt with a number of major manufacturers, it all comes down to volume. I now understand why some brands cut back on guides and reel seat types!

The plan.....
Put several different builds out to you, the AKFF fisher person.....I know, you all want one....sorry, its money out of my pocket, so only a few! For those that get them, PLEASE give honest feedback!
Based on feedback, refine/change build to suit. Already Ive had excellent feedback.
Marketing stage - to AKFF and stores - need to ensure I can cover costs of manufacture! Not looking to make huge profit here, just want to develop something thats close to my heart and is my passion. However Im not going to spend all my own cash on it!

Soooo....I need YOU to ALL contribute and give feedback...Would you buy?, Is it what you want? etc etc

I can only get so many samples made up before it gets silly (my money again!), so the more we refine the design the easier it is!

Joffa


----------



## breamingfromabass (Aug 22, 2007)

My thoughts.....

I think you do not need any more ideas for the rods as you have got a lot alreaady and it is all good.

As you said... Do up three or four and give to the mods to distribute to who they think would be the best people to give feedback.

Take the feedback and refine your design.

THEN make say 4 or 5 of each weight class and send them to the capital cities for a review day. AKFF'ers could go check them out at a waterside destination and possibly also be able to cast off the bank of sample some in the yak casting also.

Then run a poll on here (Ala 'who wants a brag mat) and see how viable the process would be. .Iif you can acheive desirable results go for it!

My thoughts..

Luke.


----------



## BigMatt (Nov 19, 2008)

I hope you don't mind me asking but why opt for single foot guides...?


----------



## craig51063 (May 30, 2008)

and now for the impossable ...... can you make it float with a reel attached .......

a higher leash attachment would be good and it sounds like a good price as this is the most [ ish ] i will pay for a rod .

good luck 
craig


----------



## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Joffa said:


> Do up three or four and give to the mods to distribute to who they think would be the best people to give feedback.


 ??????

How about offering the rods to the people that have already given you feedback on this post ? 8)


----------



## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

craig51063 said:


> can you make it float with a reel attached .......


Very good idea - no need for a leash point then....

Fill the core of the rod with a foam that will add buoyoncy


----------



## GoneFishn (May 17, 2007)

wopfish said:


> craig51063 said:
> 
> 
> > can you make it float with a reel attached .......
> ...


But wouldn't that affect the action of the rod :? but I do agree if you can get a design that floats you would be on a winner.
Her is a link I found that may give you some more ideas on how to go about it http://www.kayakfishingzone.com/Gear/Rods.html.


----------



## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

kraley said:


> hehehe. Dude - you are messing up my chance for a free rod. :lol: :twisted:


Sheeeet _ I knew one of you guys would get on here !!!!


----------



## Joffa (Nov 8, 2007)

I had no idea that you where angling for a free rod.......(all innocence I am.....HA!)
However, some will got out for feedback!

As for floating...I thought about it, and Okuma make one that does this, however its got HUGE grips on it to make it float. Ruins the action on the blank and looks plain ugly! (my opinion only)

Single foot guides...I just like the look of 'em, I like the minimal approach. Any reason why I shouldnt with modern guides? I feel (again my opinion) that modern technology allows you to get away with single foot guides, and keeps the rod action.

Ideas have been well receieved, hope to have some new samples shortly!

Joffa


----------



## Joffa (Nov 8, 2007)

A question to all...
Do you want a standard reel seat, or one of the 'comort shaped' seats? i.e. shaped behind the reel like Daiwa Heartland rods?
Feedback has lead to a non 'flapping' leash attachment, however you still need to cast! What do you want?
So far Im leaning towars a small fixed ring above the reel seat OR moulded as part of the reel seat. Dont let my ideas rule the design! AKFF'rs rule!
Joffa


----------



## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Hey joffa any chance of posting the reel seat in question - a pic from an online site perhaps..... as I'm not too sure of what you mean........


----------



## zipper (Feb 27, 2008)

i recon the comfort grip. and i also think that the leachpoint should go just above the top grip on the blank (i think i have seen it in one of gra's builds?). i recon there would be better than ontop of the reel seat as that is where i put my hand to cast. i think it would get in the way and be uncomfortable.
this is just my idea


----------



## Joffa (Nov 8, 2007)

Ok, waiting for new design pics, but this is the reel seat config Ive asked for, but still with the split butt section as pictured earlier.
Cork or EVA guys and gals. Personally, Im leaning towards cork with alloy finish caps.









Might have to call the rod Isobel! My second child Isobel was born Tuesday so have been somewhat distracted! 3.6kg and 52cm, I think legal length and a keeper! Where is that brag matt.....


----------



## GoneFishn (May 17, 2007)

Good going Joffa on the birth. Its a keeper for sure  and yes you need a photo on the brag mat I did it with the my girl and Mum found it an absolute hoot :lol:

I'm not fussed over cork or EVA. I use both Cork and EVA grips and have not had any problems from either.


----------



## Joffa (Nov 8, 2007)

Concept pic!


----------



## Chop (Jan 3, 2008)

Joffa said:


> Ok, waiting for new design pics, but this is the reel seat config Ive asked for, but still with the split butt section as pictured earlier.
> Cork or EVA guys and gals. Personally, Im leaning towards cork with alloy finish caps.
> 
> 
> Might have to call the rod Isobel! My second child Isobel was born Tuesday so have been somewhat distracted! 3.6kg and 52cm, I think legal length and a keeper! Where is that brag matt.....


Um isnt that one of Perrie thomas's rods?

chop


----------



## station49 (Jun 7, 2007)

Joffa said:


> Ok, waiting for new design pics, but this is the reel seat config Ive asked for, but still with the split butt section as pictured earlier.
> Cork or EVA guys and gals. Personally, Im leaning towards cork with alloy finish caps.
> 
> 
> Might have to call the rod Isobel! My second child Isobel was born Tuesday so have been somewhat distracted! 3.6kg and 52cm, I think legal length and a keeper! Where is that brag matt.....


Wow... that rod looks pretty familiar mate.

In fact... that EXACT rod is sitting next to me in the rack, as i have the original HotRods Stalker 'Camo' D601LF.... I'd be careful ripping off other peoples pics & designs without first consulting them.



Joffa said:


> this is the reel seat config Ive asked for


So... assuming you are using his design, is HotRods getting a cut of the money from the mass produced rods then?


----------



## Joffa (Nov 8, 2007)

Never heard of Hotrods, so would be pleased if someone could post me a link or picture! This is what my designer sent me based on what I asked for! No intent at all to pinch someone elses design. This is what YOUR feedback has lead to! Maybe we are all after the same thing! By the way, Image of the Fuji grip is from a US site, not a picutre of any rod Ive made.


----------



## Joffa (Nov 8, 2007)

Googled it, now I can see why everyone is up in arms! Have a look at the Fuji rod building catalog!!!!! Its the 'Deluxe' grip available as a kit from Fuji/Frogleys! You can go Camo or cork grip! Thats what costs the $$$$ Its also featured in the latest Modern Fishing! (the reel seat and camo grips that is!)


----------



## Feral (Oct 18, 2008)

I Dont like Fuji reel seats, I've had two fail on me in the last year.


----------



## Joffa (Nov 8, 2007)

Really? How? What seats do you use now?


----------



## Feral (Oct 18, 2008)

The locking ring has come away from the retainer on both rods, on one rod when the locking ring came away from the retainer, leaving the reel stuck on the rod, I had to belt the retainer off with a small bit of wood to free the reel.

The rods were bought, not made up, have not made my own in years.


----------



## Joffa (Nov 8, 2007)

Not good! As far as this project goes, Ive had graphite seats of Chinese origin made. I just assumed (my bad!) that everyone wanted Fuji components as its generally accepted as the 'standard' Refreshing to hear someone elses honest opinion.
Joffa


----------



## ELM (Jul 14, 2008)

For me personally I would want the leash ring on the back of the rod about one hand length below the reel (end of reel seat thread in your first images) I find the line, bail, reel handle etc get caught all the time if level with or above the reel also uncomfortable if underhand. These are all areas I have tried attatching leashes in the past, since I have moved below the reel seat the only issue I have had is sliding the butt into tube type holders for storage (which brings me to my next point).
Now I am not much of a fisherman and very new to kayak fishing, but I find long rod butts a pain on my AI. 
1st: When underload I find the long butts harder to get out of my Scotty rod holders (little mans sindrome) 
2nd: the long butts get in the way of my feet when peddeling (Hobie)(forward rod mounts) constantly hitting them
3rd: When undersail, longer butts make it more difficult to manage sheet lines etc
4th: I rarely hold the rod below the reel seat as most rods feel balanced to the reel seat and only use the butt to lean against a body part eg leg, hip, crotch for more leaverage on heaver fish (not that that has happened on the kayak) and as I am in a seated position do not need much butt to do his.

All these points are only my opinion. If buying a rod I would be looking for a strong back with a lite tip, one peice, 6'6" to 7', 1-3kg an 4-6kg (not much call for anything heavier down here) would be in my zone, two leash rings one above and one below the reel seat, with the one above doubeling as a hook ring or storage leash ring. As much as I like the look/feel of cork would probably go for something that has a better life span (wont chip out etc), and would be happy with single foot guides.

Ow and MOJO, MOJO would be a must have, in fact a full refund should be offered if there is no MOJO.

Congrats on the bub, yes should be a keeper.


----------



## Joffa (Nov 8, 2007)

Great feedback! Totally agree on long butt sections! When you are in the Yak, no room for them, howver I dont like the loooong foregrip idea of the Okumas (Im guessing to make float). EVA grips, Im happy with also, but I like cork for some weird reason. Will get costings on both. The Fuji 'Kit' with camo EVA grips is very schmick, but may blow the price beyond the average mortal! I dont think I will ever come up with a design that everyone is happy with. The alternative is to have a Yak specific rod, with a fancy detachable ring/leash attachment point. WIP! :lol: (Works In Progress!)
Joffa (my head hurts)


----------



## Blaen (Jul 4, 2006)

It's funny, I look for a rod with a long butt handle when looking for a Yak rod, I prefer to use the in moulded rod holders on my Outback and prefer to have the reel higher up off the deck line.


----------



## ELM (Jul 14, 2008)

Everyone will be different, I actually thought I must have been the only one that liked them short, now I know I am not alone. If I did not have the AI I would also use the origanal holders, the trouble I find is the sail lines hit the rods and tangle when reaching into the wind when sailing. I have gone with Scotty rod holders up front, with extensions to lift them clear of feet and deck/waterline, but when sailing they get drowned anyway. Even if I used the origanal holders I would fit extensions and still use short butts as I find the long ones awkward on the kayak.


----------



## Joffa (Nov 8, 2007)

What about something like this?


----------



## fishingchap (Sep 7, 2007)

> What about something like this?


i like so how much will it cost


----------



## Joffa (Nov 8, 2007)

The aim is under $120AUD (for AKFF members), but will depend on final fit out. Plan is for Fuji reel seats and guides, but may kill the price. Question to all viewers!!! Do you want Fuji brand, or will 'copies' or equivalent do?????
Thinking SiC guides, but if Fuji componenets used all over, cost will most likely jump to $180 plus (Im told). Will let you know as figures come to hand. Min productions runs are typically 150-200 per model type, so we have to get it right....well, I have to get it right!
Joffa


----------



## Blaen (Jul 4, 2006)

Joffa said:


> What about something like this?


Yeah that's the money shot!!! ;-)

That looks pretty damn good to me 8)


----------



## Blaen (Jul 4, 2006)

Joffa said:


> The aim is under $120AUD (for AKFF members), but will depend on final fit out. Plan is for Fuji reel seats and guides, but may kill the price. Question to all viewers!!! Do you want Fuji brand, or will 'copies' or equivalent do?????
> Thinking SiC guides, but if Fuji componenets used all over, cost will most likely jump to $180 plus (Im told). Will let you know as figures come to hand. Min productions runs are typically 150-200 per model type, so we have to get it right....well, I have to get it right!
> Joffa


I am happy with 'copies', I have various rods with all sorts of brand guides on them and have not experienced any quality issues with any of them.


----------



## GoneFishn (May 17, 2007)

That last pic of the rod is looking smick


----------



## Joffa (Nov 8, 2007)

Ok, samples ordered. Have had a quick word with Mods, stay tuned for testers!


----------



## Wannafish (Nov 27, 2008)

Good on you Joffa for getting this happening and underway.
I am looking for a couple of new Yak rods so I'm keen to see how you go with this!
How long will it take to get the samples through?


----------



## Joffa (Nov 8, 2007)

Samples will take around 2 weeks to arrive. Production (If I can fund it) will take around 2 months for a minimum order. Interest is growing. Stumbling block is still leash attachment.
Do we
a) Have some sort of external attachment device that clips on
or
b)Have a fixed loop on the rod to clip on to.

Opinions are mixed, and I can see both sides of the story. Guess Im leaning to a fixed clip/loop on the rod as long as it does not interefer with casting.

Joffa


----------



## zipper (Feb 27, 2008)

a clip that you can fit onto any rod so that you have a good leash point would be a great seller IMHO
make both ;-) :lol:


----------



## HOTRODS (Dec 2, 2008)

good on you for having a crack Joffa, if it all works out you onto a winner id say !

as for that pic that you posted of the camo grip in question that is definatly my pic as the pic was taken by my of Stations Stalker before i had done any binding, and is 1 of only 2 rods with grips like that in existance as they are designed and shaped by myself and is not available in kit form. so out of interest id like to know what US site had it posted if you can remember ? so i can track it down...muchly appreciated...

(mods please dont take this as advertising but here is the original pic being questioned as a referance)


----------



## Joffa (Nov 8, 2007)

I'll be [email protected]#@#'d

Thought it was mudhole, but cant find it on the site.....Ive saved it as a Fuji image, so guessing fro some US Fuji site.

Was searching VSS reel seats and the like

let me look, was from a US rod component site!

For all and sundry...cant get the $ value where it needs to be using any style like Hotrods!

Just waiting for a few samples to arrive and will post pics!

Should look like


----------



## zipper (Feb 27, 2008)

sssssssseeeeeeeeeeexxxxxxxxxyyyyyyyyyyy.
what is the highest rod rating you will bring out? i am in the market for a something from 4 to 6 or 8 kilos or something around there


----------



## Blaen (Jul 4, 2006)

It's looking extremely good Joffa, I have to admit I do find the cork handles just that bit more pleasing to the eye


----------



## adventurelover (Dec 5, 2007)

i agree


----------



## fisher (Aug 30, 2005)

For what its worth, I'd prefer to see the leash point as close to the butt as possible. I'd consider paying $120 for a yak rod, but not much more....good luck with the project


----------

