# VIC Safety Beach - theres blood on the yak



## fishnsurf (Jul 20, 2009)

Went to melb airport bright and early this morning to pick up my first (actually havn't had one b4) new (well second hand) yak - reevolooohtion   . It was very exciting to peel the wrapping off and see the new toy. I decided to head to safety beach as the wind forecast looked quite good to give it a trial run. No sooner had I set up than a local akff member (sorry I am bad with names) pulled up and said hello! We had a chat and got some great tips about setup and using a hobie - so big thanks. As I said to him part of the reason I got into yak fishing was because of this forum and the chance to fish with and learn from other people.
I headed out and trolled around for an hour or so getting used the the hobie, but nothing in the way of fish. I decided to try the marina and got a solid hook up just near the entrance - first fish on board!!!! The second followed 5 mins later just before a couple of small boats trolling up and down the entrance spooked the school. As I headed 50 or so meters up from the entrance into the marina just at the end of the rock wall a security guard politely said there was no fishing in the marina but I could fish around the entrance. I said no problem and turned back to troll up and down along the rock wall and scored another 2 salmon (around 40cm mark). I was getting exited as the fish were on the bite, but that idea was soon crushed as I got a verbal tirade from another security guard (a lot less friendly than the first one - who drove out as far as he could), threatening legal action as there was no fishing in the marina. As far as I could tell I turned back an was doing the right thing, fishing around the rock wall. The guard was adamant I had been further up the marina (its the first time Id been there and I hadnt). I think I was coping a bunch of frustration he'd had with other ppl and probably the wife not puttin out ontop of mondayitis!! :? :? . I wasn't too impressed and after asking him to stop yelling as my hearing was quite ok, I left. I just put that in so that others are aware of the situation there. I did notice however there was no screaming directed at the two boats trolling up and down the length of the marina.
That said i had a great start in the hobie as a test run and capped it off with a nice 40 cm flattie and hour later.
Will try and post a photo or two as my first attempt has come back with an 'invalid file' or something.hmmm.
---worked it out  
Looking forward to being on the water with some others now that I am not a complete amateur.

PS. Big thanks goes to Marty for a very smooth and pleasant transaction and for taking great care in ensuring the yak was well wrapped and arrived safely.


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## mattyp (Mar 7, 2008)

Congrats on the first yak fish!
The security down there are _'like a box of chocolates........you never know which one you going to get!'_ :lol: 
Most of us tend to just smile and wave and keep fishing. :lol: 
Here's a video i found on youtube with one of those security guards. :lol: :lol: Not sure who the yakfishos are. :shock: ;-) 





Cheers
Matty


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## Sellz (May 3, 2008)

" So its a private waterway, riiiiiiiight..........with a public boat ramp?" Hahaha classic


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## kritter67 (May 17, 2009)

HI all , i have just sent a question to fisheries vic and am waiting on a reply [up to 2 days], on whether or not you are legally able/entitled to fish inside the marina. May aswell know your rights hey. FISH2ALL , Kieran.


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## Fishcam (Mar 30, 2008)

just smile at em and keep fishing ....they wont swim out and capsize you ....legaly you have all right to fish ther as thear are no signs or indacation as to it being "no fishing"
or "privet waterways" by signs or anything so they canot press charges unless they have useage of signs and if they took you to court they would fail considering geting yelled at by a security gaurd you can claim you dident hear him/her
but it all boils down to your belifes 
cheers cam


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## Sellz (May 3, 2008)

We should get a massive crew down there and fish the marina........Norm (security guard) would go off!! :lol:


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## Alster99 (Nov 20, 2008)

kritter67 said:


> HI all , i have just sent a question to fisheries vic and am waiting on a reply [up to 2 days], on whether or not you are legally able/entitled to fish inside the marina. May aswell know your rights hey. FISH2ALL , Kieran.


Looking forward to the response on that one. Fisheries in my experience are pretty good at getting back to enquiries.


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## fishnsurf (Jul 20, 2009)

yes would like to know what the deal is with the marina cos its very unpleasant being yelled at while trying to fish. But really this pressure is coming from the ppl with the cash and the $$$$ boats who dont want the common fisho coming anywhere near their pristine toys, regardless of laws or public property. Really the guards are not there to uphold the law, they get paid to do what they are told to do. I think its about the ppl with the money pushing for what they want - I think the guards are just doing their jobs and coping the heat. Really the guards should just make sure things are orderly and property is respected inside the marina (and a few tips on where the fish have been biting that day would help oil the wheels of love  ).

ps mingle thanks...looking forward to catching up fri!!


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## bigyakka (Mar 18, 2009)

Hi all ,Kritter67 i spoke Mark Asplin at the department of fisheries last week about fishing at marthas cove and asked him to email me a brief note about our conversation. Here it is
" Hi Garrath
As discussed on Friday, it appears that there are some local measures in place preventing the fishing from kayaks in the Martha Cove are. Fisheries Victoria (DPI) have no authoriy or jurisdiction over the access to this area for the purpose of fishing and as such enquries of that nature are best directed to the managing authority of Martha Cove. Enquries made by local Fisheries Officers since the development suggest that fishing anywhere from the entrance groynes into the marina waterways itself is no to be undertaken. It is believed as, as you suggested, that security staff do work in the area.

As per our conversation on Friday, I'm sorry i cant be a bit more specific but Fisheries Victoria, although involved in the management of recreational fishing, have no legislative responsibility regarding the management and general access to this area.

You will need to check with the managing authority to confirm access arrangements.

All the best."

When i spoke to him he said it was private property and that they have the authority only to call the police who can ask you to leave and if you choose not to they can then charge you with tresspassing. He said they have opened discussions with the owners about allowing fishing in the marina but expects any outcome to be a long way in the future.
I think iwill keep fishing there and move on if and when the police turn up. I havnt heard of them arriving yet so hopefully it wont happen


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## FazerPete (Mar 10, 2009)

It's not popular but I think that the owners have every right to make whatever rules they want. They spent a lot of money building that place and the people who keep their boats there want to know that they are secure so I can understand where they are coming from. There's also a legal issue if a kayak got run over in the marina by a stinker if the marina owners allowed fishing because they'd probably be liable.

Just my 2 cents worth.


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## mattyp (Mar 7, 2008)

Agree the owners/developers have paid big dollars to build a marina, but it was never possible without approval of our local government, which put conditions on the project. One was public access to public(tidal) waters.
Matty


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## bilby (Sep 2, 2008)

I've given up on the place, the security there is like the umpiring at the current ashes series, you just never know what they are going to say next, one guard turns a blind eye, the next is yelling on a megaphone :shock: . I reckon if the properties keep selling like they have, soon the owners will be asking us if they can wash our yaks for pocket money to pay there million dollar mortgages. Wouldn't that be sweet.  
Bilby.


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## Rodman (Jun 29, 2007)

Honestly the fishing in there just isn't worth the agro (or potential court appearance for those that smile and wave).



> *Fish-e-Fax Issue 215, 28 February 2008*
> 
> *Angling Access to Martha Cove*
> 
> ...


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## maccayak (Oct 20, 2008)

The entrance of the waterway was called Tassels Creek prior to the development. It was there before and locals used to fish it for Bream etc. I am a local so I remember it well. It was one of those little spots you could go fishing, mainly after a storm, but it was still there, a natural waterway. Security dont believe me when I tell them there was a natural waterway there. I have seen police called before, but they have just give warnings and leave.

Security are only doing there job, so just move on. You are allowed to go sight seeing down there in your yak. You can also see the security cameras on the high poles in HALF of the marina.

Also well done fishnsurf. I was the guy who stopped and chatted to you at lunchtime. Security probably confused you with Mitch

Cheers Geoff


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## bilby (Sep 2, 2008)

A couple of weeks back, Jim (who fishes with us a bit) launched off the pontoons down the far end of the mariner, as his property is off the street down the rear of the complex. He was coming out the front to fish with us and because he had rods in a holder behind him (not in the water trolling) the security guards threatend to call the cops because of the "intention" to fish. So does this mean that every boat who pays $15 to launch in the Mariner is tresspassing because they have rods in the boat with the intention to fish. 
It is getting to the point of stupidity, someone from the Martha Cove development has to come forward and explain the details a little better i feel, but i wouldnt hold my breathe. 
Cheers Bilby.


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## FazerPete (Mar 10, 2009)

matty said:


> Agree the owners/developers have paid big dollars to build a marina, but it was never possible without approval of our local government, which put conditions on the project. One was public access to public(tidal) waters.
> Matty


You may be right but I've never seen anything about public access matty. Do you have any documentary evidence of this agreement and what "public access" means. This could be why they let you paddle/pedal through but fishing might not be classed as public access so they say no.


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## madfishman (Dec 10, 2007)

Good one Fishnsurf dude, nice to get a fish in the yak, 

Well you guys can stand on the beach and debate all you like :? ...Im going in... till i get kicked out.. :twisted: :twisted:

Plus , theres plenty of other marinas you can go to. :twisted: 
Queenscliff,Stkilda,Sandringham, Hobsons Bay... :?

I still gotta drive freakin miles to get to any of them...

Nice one..


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## topgunpete (Jul 19, 2009)

The forum is right, it is private waterways, if you are asked to leave and refuse, the police can be called. If the police ask you to leave and you refuse, you are stupid. The guards can not legally prevent you from leaving or delaying you. We are allowed to access the waterways as members of the public, boats kayaks etc, but that permission can be refused or rescinded (ie - if you are found fishing in the marina). I am sure if you (individually) repeatedly get asked to stop fishing, they can ban you from entering the marina. This will bring up its own issues of identification and enforcement against the individual but we really want to avoid that. (the same as being banned from the MCG) Even though the guards take number plate numbers, there is nothing they can do with those, but again, it may be a way to identify repeat fisherman which they can then use as a reason to ban you. The residents of the marina estate pay body corporate fees (which include the guards wages) and set the rules on using the waterways, that is why the launching ramp has restricted hours of use, the residents don't want to be woken up. One of the major beefs with the residents is shore based fisherman, but they won't differentiate between water and shore based fisherman. One of my mates is a part time guard at the marina (and a really avid fisherman - although he just hasn't got into yak fishing yet) and he *isn't* the one with the megaphone. We have been chatting about coming up with a scenario that will keep the residents happy. Stay tuned.


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## FazerPete (Mar 10, 2009)

madfishman said:


> Well you guys can stand on the beach and debate all you like ...Im going in... till i get kicked out..


The trouble is that a few guys breaking/bending the rules just gives kayak fishing a bad name. With all these greenies out to turn the tide against fishing in general, wouldn't it be better to make sure our reputation as a group is impecable? I went through the same thing with dirt bikes a number of years ago. A few bad eggs spoiled it for everyone else by giving dirt bikes a bad name and it's allowed the greenies to get it banned just about everywhere.

Surely the rest of the bay is big enough anyway? ;-)


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## topgunpete (Jul 19, 2009)

I completely agree about not giving yaks a bad name, that is why I am trying to organise a reconciliation meeting with the head of the Body Corporate. He lives on site and watches the marina activities through binoculars. He is always ringing the guards and complaining about people fishing. I just think it is a great resource that we should have fishing access to, with permission and consent of the owners.


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## FazerPete (Mar 10, 2009)

Well done for taking some sort of ownership on this Pete. I completely agree with what you're trying to do and agree that it would be a great resource on those windy days if you can come to some sort of compromise with them.


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## Shorty (May 11, 2008)

Glad you are having fun on your new yak, just watching the video,,Martha Cove seems a huge expanse of water,,not your avarege pokey little marina, as stated just smile and wave and go back to the important things in life,,fishing ,,,also try "no udder stand the english" "no udderstand!!!" ;-)


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## topgunpete (Jul 19, 2009)

Last post on the Martha Cove Marina from me for a while. I have spoken to the head of the Body Corporate today, they are having a meeting Friday week to discuss amongst other things, fishing in the marina. They were extremely happy to have someone pro-actively contact them. I have told them I am not representing any group or association, just a member of the AKFF. It was reiterated to me that their main concern is people fishing from the boardwalks and from the shoreline on private land. But the rule at the moment is "no fishing inside the marina" at all. I will hopefully get invited to the meeting Friday week and if not, I will be updated with information from the meeting and go from there. If anyone has an issue with me talking to these guys, please let me know or else if you would like to be involved in any potential discussion/meeting if it goes that far, let me know as well.


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## mtfisho (May 30, 2009)

Hi Guys,
Firstly goodonya fishnsurf. Always a great feeling.
Guys, 
Come on. They dont care if there is only you or 2 people but when theres over 2 they get "cranky"
Me & Dad were fishing in there and they gave us a warning them drove past a few times and left.
One of the ladys we were talking to said stay right at the back and they should leave you alone
but when there is 10 of you's in there they wont tolerate it. As Geoff suggested that it was once 
a public little creek with bream. All the times I've been there they have only said they will call the
police once. I told one of them. What is worse.... Me going in for a little fish or someone damaging 
the houses, etc. He said thats a fair point and left us alone. Also we've talked to a few cops about it
and they said if theres no signs they can't do anything about it.



> Security probably confused you with Mitch


 ????

Thanks, Mitch!


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## FazerPete (Mar 10, 2009)

mtfisho said:


> They dont care if there is only you or 2 people but when theres over 2 they get "cranky"


But Mitch, if they let 1 in then they have to let everyone in. That's how rules work mate or do you think you are a special case? ;-)


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## mtfisho (May 30, 2009)

Of course not Pete.
They just don't seem to complain when theres not that many there.

Mitch


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## ScottLovig (Aug 7, 2006)

FazerPete said:


> madfishman said:
> 
> 
> > Well you guys can stand on the beach and debate all you like ...Im going in... till i get kicked out..
> ...


Disagree a bit. If we dont push a few buttons nothing will change. We are only fishing. Rights or no rights banning fishing is just plain Scrooge Mc Duck.

Being a bad egg would be, leaving rubbish, making noise, swearing or abusing anyone particularly security who are just doing their job.

For the moment I support polite friendly disobedience. :lol: :twisted:

Looking forward to more info from Topgun.

Cheers

Scott


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## ScottLovig (Aug 7, 2006)

Its no diffrent to any other residental estate.

If you want to develop you have to put in roads and footpaths for public access. The vacant blocks and pontoons are private property but thats it

The marina is open to the bay and has a public boat ramp. Its not gated and there are no gates or signs denying access. You can take a boat in there and the developers/body corporate have to allow it.

The developers selling the properties just want to discriminate when it comes to dirty fisherman.

We all pay our taxes, rates and fishing licenses. Stuff em!!!!!!!!

Cheers

Scott


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## FazerPete (Mar 10, 2009)

As Rodman previously posted, the government would beg to disagree:

http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/dpi/nrenf...01B7777-6E5D9CDC3FF45F98CA25740B00053604?open

I think the key wording in there is "no right of public access". It's freehold land so bringing up the issue of rates, taxes, etc is irrelevant because it's privately owned.

Topgun is taking the right approach by trying to talk to the body corporate and maybe reach some sort of compromise. Antagonising them during this process probably won't help.


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## ScottLovig (Aug 7, 2006)

Even the security guards say we are allowed in.

Like I said, they just want to discriminate against dirty fisherman.

Employing security guards to continue throwing dirty but polite fisherman out will just keep costing them money. Money is a great motivator and sooner or later dollars and cents might inspire them to reconsider this unproductive activity.

Cheers

Scott


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## sbd (Aug 18, 2006)

maccayak said:


> Security are only doing there job, so just move on.
> Cheers Geoff


aka the Nuremburg Defense.

Go get 'em Scott ;-) .


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

Would be interesting to see if they could prosecute you for fishing there :? .

It might of been a prerequisite of being able do the development that there be public access to the water ways. Hence, as said, there are no signs saying do not enter. Also I believe you can not own the tidal water (that belongs to the crown....who every he is). There is no mention in the linky to say you cant fish from a boat, or other, once on the water way, only that you have no right to public access. They certainly can prosecute you for being on there land, but can they prosecute you for fishing on the water???? I doubt. I think its all bluff.....but its too far away from me to test it and wouldn't want to have to go through any court process to prove the case. .
I just hate wingy people who have got nothing better to do. :twisted:

BTW nice fish.


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## madfishman (Dec 10, 2007)

check todays paper, the owners are going bust....


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## topgunpete (Jul 19, 2009)

They have gone bust, but that doesn't affect the body corporate. If I (we) can't negotiate a suitable outcome, the worst that can happen is we keep doing what we have been doing anyway. Be funny to have 20 - 30 yak's in there at the same time fishing. :lol: :lol: be funny watching them run around trying to kick us all out. mmmmm


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## fishnsurf (Jul 20, 2009)

Wow wot a can of worms...but it would be great to come to some sort of resolution with the body corp as an outcome to all this. I like your initiative topgun, the same has crossed my mind. Looking forward to hear what happens.


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## Marty (Mar 18, 2007)

hi mate 
sorry only just saw your post ... really glad you got the revo safe and sound .
Must admit not having freighted a kayak before by air , I was pretty worried until you let me know you got it 
congrats on christening her so soon and i look forward to plenty of great trip reports in the near future 
pleasure doing business mate


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2009)

I have had a similar experience in the past. The charges were thrown out on the basis that no one owns the water. So long as I wasnt moored to thier "private" moorings, or using thier "private" ramps, or touching anything else that is "private", thier was nothing that they could do to me as the water is public property.

I do not reccomend or advise anyone to take it to the lengths that I did, nor am I any expert in legal dealings. Just sharing my personal experiences


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## mattyp (Mar 7, 2008)

FazerPete said:


> There's also a legal issue if a kayak got run over in the marina by a stinker if the marina owners allowed fishing because they'd probably be liable.
> Just my 2 cents worth.


There is a 5 knot limit in the marina and there is very little boat traffic, almost none at all this time of the year. Not sure the owners would be liable either, unless they actively promoted yakfishing in the marina (can't see that happening).  Ever paddled/pedaled along Patterson River? 20 times the traffic than that of Martha Cove with both yaks and stinkboats on the same water, harmoniously without a problem.



Fazerpete said:


> You may be right but I've never seen anything about public access matty. Do you have any documentary evidence of this agreement and what "public access" means. This could be why they let you paddle/pedal through but fishing might not be classed as public access so they say no.


Don't need documentary evidence. Grab your Melways out and go to page 150. Martha Cove residents wouldn't be able to get out of their driveways with out public roads. Does that mean we are not allowed to drive through Martha Cove. That's what I'm talking about. Same goes with the water from PPB that flows in and out of the Marina. They have even built a public board walk down the length of the North/East side. Still don't understand how they can claim the water is their property. :? If it is not part of PPB, does this mean the developers can be prosecuted by fisheries for being over their bag limit with all those Salmon on their property? :? :? ;-) ;-) :lol:



Fazerpete said:


> The trouble is that a few guys breaking/bending the rules just gives kayak fishing a bad name. With all these greenies out to turn the tide against fishing in general, wouldn't it be better to make sure our reputation as a group is impecable? I went through the same thing with dirt bikes a number of years ago. A few bad eggs spoiled it for everyone else by giving dirt bikes a bad name and it's allowed the greenies to get it banned just about everywhere.
> 
> Surely the rest of the bay is big enough anyway?


Mate, all we are doing is fishing. Fishing. Sounds criminal when I say it twice! :twisted: :lol: If anything, the greenies are probably on our side. We are far from doing donuts on a 2 stroke or racing up and down PPB in stinkboats. The rest of the bay is big enough, but for those of us that love to fish 2-3 times a week and it's blowing it's tits off, day in day out, it is just about the only place around that is all weather friendly. Bad egg is a bit harsh(I've been crying for days now ;-) )for doing a little fishing.



Fazerpete said:


> I think the key wording in there is "no right of public access". It's freehold *land* so bringing up the issue of rates, taxes, etc is irrelevant because it's privately owned.


There's the key wording. *"Freehold Land"*. My kayak doesn't work on land. Anything there about freehold water? :? :lol: ;-)



Rodman said:


> Honestly the fishing in there just isn't worth the agro (or potential court appearance for those that smile and wave).


What agro? ;-) Most of the Security Guards there will tell you 'that it is there job to tell us that there is no fishing in the marina'. Then follow up with 'go to the back of the marina - there's no cameras there' then leave us to fish. There is one Guard that gets on his high horse, with veins popping out of his neck while screaming down a megaphone, (won't mention his name but his initials are Norm MacDonald), told us the police are on there way. We very politely told him we would wait for the police to come and re-affirm that we were not allowed to fish, then happily be on our way. 3/4 of an hour later (waiting for the police)and staying longer than we intended to, we left. Potential court case for smiling and waving my arse. I have spoken to some friends of mine in the police force and praise the hard work they do. They say they have more important thing to attend to. Do you really think when they take a call from Martha Cove Security requesting their presence onsite because someone is fishing. :shock: Not even the *Incredibles* would waste their time on this one. ;-) I'm not saying we are above the law, I'm saying that this is just a trivial thing.

Don't get me wrong. I consider myself as law abiding as every one else. I just can't fathom (not talking water depth here :shock: ) that they own PPB water.
I think the marina a fantastic development and compliments the area, especially when it is completed, and I hope to live to see the day it is completed. :lol:

Well done Topgun for trying to organise a meeting with the bodycorp. Hope something good comes out of it.
Well done again to fishnsurf on his first yakfish.
Too much typing, not enough drinking. :twisted:  
Matty


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## ScottLovig (Aug 7, 2006)

Matty you beat me the punch. I was thinking that just last night.

Those bastards have exceeded their bag limit and I'll bet the body corp has no fishing licence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :twisted:

Cheers

Scott


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## Donutslayer (Jun 9, 2007)

There are no signs saying "no fishing" because they know the legal situation. They cannot enforce it. The boundarys between free water and land is well defined in law. And unless an act of parliament specifically changes that (as in the yarra 50 metre rule) then as long as you are in the water they cant enforce it. 
If you want to get smart about it you COULD (but dont) take out a restraining order on martha cove security under stalking legislation. At the moment are well aware that the dog has no teeth so they are taking an obstructionest stance and will continue to do so until they get sick of it. 
Personally, it's not somewhere i want to fish, but i dont like the idea that i cant, if i did. In fact, i think i will.
Sean


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## mtfisho (May 30, 2009)

Big story today that happened.
Stay tuned in my report!


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## kritter67 (May 17, 2009)

bigyakka said:


> Hi all ,Kritter67 i spoke Mark Asplin at the department of fisheries last week about fishing at marthas cove and asked him to email me a brief note about our conversation. Here it is
> " Hi Garrath
> As discussed on Friday, it appears that there are some local measures in place preventing the fishing from kayaks in the Martha Cove are. Fisheries Victoria (DPI) have no authoriy or jurisdiction over the access to this area for the purpose of fishing and as such enquries of that nature are best directed to the managing authority of Martha Cove. Enquries made by local Fisheries Officers since the development suggest that fishing anywhere from the entrance groynes into the marina waterways itself is no to be undertaken. It is believed as, as you suggested, that security staff do work in the area.
> 
> ...


Thanks G ,that clears that up K---------


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## chip (Feb 27, 2009)

Hi Fishnsurf, and congratulations on your first fish in your yak. I have a Revolution, too, and am on an equally high learning curve. I live in North Fitzroy. Please contact me, if you wish, and lets have a fish together.

Cheers,

Chip


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