# reading weather



## jonnyc (Mar 1, 2011)

gday fellow fishos 
i have a pretty newbie question but i thought before i head out again i better ask  i have a cobra tandem which i bought a month ago to fish with my bro but im a little hesitant to take it offshore with friends as im not to familiar with reading weather, ive been a rock fisho for years so i know anything over a 1.5/2m in 20knts of wind is deadly but i want to get a rough estimate of good yakking conditions. im also going to slap on a small motor or electric onto the cobra cause its stable but slow  also, i want to understand wind direction a bit better.. what wind gusts are common on the east coast, NNE, SE etc.
CHeers guys


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

Mate its very important to understand what the weather is doing.
Most people will do no more than check out the basic wind speed and direction, but with a few more clicks you can look at the synoptic chart and marine forecast.........and currents and tides can come into the mix. If you do this every day for your region, you will have a greater understanding on when its ok to go out and when not to.

Without knowing where exactly you live, its a bit difficult to give any good advise, the east coast is a big place. I can work out my region around Redcliffe pretty well, but anywhere else it pays to play it safe or seek out local knowledge........and work up to your limits slowly.

General up to 10kts is pretty safe after that it depends on the region.


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## jonnyc (Mar 1, 2011)

Oh, right forgot 2 add location  thanks mate, I might c if I can tEe up a fish with someone with exp. Yeh I want to learn how to read the synoptic chart properly etc.. Might focus on one area for a bit ?? Well i live syd so I fish harbour a bit but mainly travel north ( pittwater,mid north coast) and south (shoalhaven, batemans and jervis bay) so I travel really..


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

Jonnyc

As Paul has said, knowledge of weather is important. It can be the difference beween fun and disaster.

It is wise to plan off recent forecasts, and then make decisions based on what's actually happening on the water. There can be big differences between the two, but mostly the forecast is fairly close to the reality. There are other tools that you can use too.

Weather reading is a science (4 years at Uni), but Joe average (you & me) can develop an good working understanding of synoptic charts etc., and this understanding can _markedly_ improve your safety margin whilst yakking.

Before answering in full, could you please give your locality, and if you can:

1. Where do you draw your forecasts from?
2. How long before yakking do you check the forecast?
3. Do you have any understanding of synoptic charts?

Don't feel obliged to answer these questions, but locality would be good. A full answer to your query, and for others not familiar with weather reading, will take me a couple of days, as I'm going fishing all day tomorrow.

Cheers
Trevor


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## gonetroppo (Jan 29, 2011)

There is a great thread on here with all the different sites members use to get weather forceasts. Here is the one I use, click on your area to zoom, and select the day and the time you will be going out: http://www.bom.gov.au/marine/wind.shtml

I wouldnt bother with synopic charts, they are too vauge unless your really really good and usualy the met man has interpreted them for you. The basic rules with them are however, if the lines are close its windy, spaced far apart its clam, Highs associate with good weather, Lows with poor weather. The BoM have met lessons online. you could check out as well.


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## jonnyc (Mar 1, 2011)

Yeh I agree mate, I've seen to many disasters off the rocks and I don't plan to become one of those disasters out on the yak. Yeh look thats the aim, to learn as mush as I can about my environment before heading out. Happy to answer ya q. 
1. I look at seabreeze and willyweather for my forecasts. I look at swell, tide, wind etc. 
2. I usually plan a trip a couple days in advanced n check everyday n the morning of just incase it changes, im used to frequently checking due to rock hopping 
3. None at all bud, apart from knowing the high n low pressure systems 
Well I live in Liverpool nsw and my local fishing hole would have to be mid north like Brisbane waters, entrance and Avoca. 
Keen to start fishing long reef, Palmy etc.

Thanks troppo might check out some of the lessons! Y not if it will help. What I'm curious to learn is y some 
winds ( ppl mention a southerly coming and won't fish in it) are more dangerous then others.. 
Cheers fellas


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

----

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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Check out windfinder......

Any more than 10 knots and it can get to be a hassle - also strong off shore winds means youve get to get back with a head wind. If I see a southerley front front coming I turn around and head home - in fact same as any front really. If your unsure at first stay within your comfort zone close to shore . Far out wide unless youve got a mark or theres a know reef or buoy then it can be a lonely desert any way.


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## gonetroppo (Jan 29, 2011)

One more thing, see if there is a webcam online that points to a beach in your area. I have one here I use and it is pure gold being able to say yay/nay from home.


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## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

Also learn to read physical conditions like cumulus lines indicating a storm or change, lense clouds indicating high winds at altitude, changes of water texture, red sky at dawn etc. We have a warm current several ks out that always produces a line of cumulus that looks like a front but it isnt, this is where local knowledge comes into play. Reading these signs is important when you are at sea and just not relying on some weather mans interpretation.


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## jonnyc (Mar 1, 2011)

Ok thanks Lads I think I know where to start, might pick a few days in the coming fortnight with slightly different forecasts n see what the difference is. Il make sure to stay close 2 shore and let someone know I'm
Out.. From what I've gathered two day forcasts are fairly accurate and it just a matter of learning the signs of the big blue 
Yeh recenltly fished some estaurys behind a sizable 
mountain in crap weather and wow what a difference it made  again the cobras a little slow so it still pumped the good old arm strings tho  Troppo that beach cam sounds sweet, I'l have a look around for them, just google or what? 
Cheers guys, thanks for the Info feel free to hit me up with Anything else


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

"The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore." 
Vincent Van Gogh

Not so in a kayak. The wise kayaker reads the weather, for 'the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible'.

"I have played in rain before. I have played in wind before. I have played in cold before, but not all put together. They were the hardest conditions I ever played in."
Michelle Wie

Firstly, weather is formed from *very complex forces*. It can change _rapidly_, and can have _large local variations_. Talking about complexity, take wind for example...wind at the earth's surface can be radically different from wind just above (as little as 50 metres above; and as much as 30 degrees difference. Think of the wind as the layers of an onion. Many layers, but they can be moving at different speeds and directions to one another). Other factors in the complexity of the weather are temperature variations, terrain, and relative humidity....



ArWeTherYet said:


> Mate its very important to understand what the weather is doing.
> Most people will do no more than check out the basic wind speed and direction, but with a few more clicks you can look at the synoptic chart and marine forecast.........and currents and tides can come into the mix. If you do this every day for your region, you will have a greater understanding on when its ok to go out and when not to.
> 
> ......and work up to your limits slowly. General up to 10kts is pretty safe after that it depends on the region.


Wise advice. We must make decisions starting from some data, so we'll look at Forecasts, Observations, Synoptic Charts.

FORECASTS:


kraley said:


> I find that most short term forecasts (1 or two days) are sooooo much more accurate than they used to be. I think that 95% of kayakers that get into real trouble are ignoring what is available form the BOM or something trustworthy like Seabreeze.....


I agree the accuracy has improved, however there are some things to consider when weighing up forecasts:

1. Forecasts are general i.e. they are for a large area of the globe, unless they are very specific location forecasts (such as aviation forecasts). Even then, a forecast for NSW south coast can have local variations of sufficient significance to make a massive difference to a lone yakker. Part of this variation can be due to orientation, or the presence or absence of significant landforms such as hills and your proximity to them.

2. The forecast must be the latest available. Don't go (only) off a forecast issued at 3 pm yesterday for an early morning yak today. The forecast could have changed significantly. I don't know how frequently Willy weather and Seabreeze and the like upgrade their forecasts, but BOM's general forecasts are about 6 - 10 hourly for major centres, with warnings more frequent.

3. A forecast is a *forecast*. It is not gospel. It is safer to also check *observations* before commiting, especially when on a large lake or offshore.

4. Forecast reliability is actually fairly good - over 90% (general forecast). If BOM forecasts a change from light northerlies to strong southwesterlies at noon, they are not usually too far out in either timing, nor wind speed or direction. So if you are offshore early that day, don't push it by staying longer, cause it's probably going to happen. [One point about wind changes on the east coast is that an onshore change is (a bit) less dangerous to a yakker than an offshore wind change.]

OBSERVATIONS:
Observations are reliable actual readings on the ground. On BOM home page....click your state /click all observations / click NSW via clickable map or Sydney region via clickable map. This will show you what has been happening on the ground at Automatic weather stations (AWS), and _what is actually happening at the present time_. It can therefore show trends. If you see an AWS record near your area for the planned fishing trip, say on the morning of 08/11 you planned an evening paddle on Sydney harbour, this is what you need to read (as well as the forecast at 6 am): 
Observations for Fort Denison today:
Km/hr Knots
Wind speed av. gusts av. gusts
08/05:34pm - - - - - SW 39 57 21 31 - - -
08/05:30pm - - - - - SW 43 57 23 31 - - -
08/05:27pm - - - - - SSW 43 56 23 30 - - -
08/05:25pm - - - - - W 41 63 22 34 - - -
08/05:24pm - - - - - W 46 63 25 34 - - -
08/05:22pm - - - - - NNW 35 54 19 29 - - -
08/05:00pm - - - - - NE 28 43 15 23 - - -
08/04:30pm - - - - - NE 28 43 15 23 - - -
08/04:00pm - - - - - NE 22 35 12 19 - - -
08/03:30pm - - - - - NNE 24 33 13 18 - - -
08/03:00pm - - - - - NNE 24 35 13 19 - - -
08/02:30pm - - - - -  NE 17 24 9 13 - - -
08/02:00pm - - - - - NE 11 22 6 12 - - -
08/01:30pm - - - - - NE 17 26 9 14 - - -
08/01:00pm - - - - - ESE 6 17 3 9 - - -
08/12:30pm - - - - - NE 17 30 9 16 - - -
08/12:00pm - - - - - NE 17 28 9 15 - - -
08/11:30am - - - - - E 17 22 9 12 - - -
08/11:00am - - - - - E 20 24 11 13 - - -
08/10:30am - - - - - E 20 22 11 12 - - -
08/10:00am - - - - - E 17 19 9 10 - - -
08/09:30am - - - - - WSW 2 2 1 1 - - -
08/09:00am - - - - - W 9 11 5 6
Later it was worse, raining heavily with lightning. The trend was showing by 10 am with a change in wind direction, and a marked increase in speed. (Now this weather was forecast, but always check observations first).

SYNOPTIC CHARTS:
Are for our purposes a 'map' of the mountains and valleys of air masses, the highs and lows (mean surface level pressure - MSLP). The 'contour lines' join places of equal pressure, just as on a topographic map contour lines join places of equal elevation. The lines on a synoptic chart also show the wind direction (called the gradient wind) - lines around a high indicate counter clockwise winds, a low clockwise. Again, there are local variations, and these can be marked due to significant terrain such as hills/mountains. BTW mountains do not always give the lee you might think.....there can be gusts exceeding the average gradient wind (these are called 'bullets').
The closer the 'lines' are together, the stronger the winds. Worth getting familiar with for planning, but not actually a lot of relevance at the moment of launching.



gonetroppo said:


> One more thing, see if there is a webcam online that points to a beach in your area. I have one here I use and it is pure gold being able to say yay/nay from home.


Good idea!



RedPhoenix said:


> Couple of useful links for the sydney/south coast area:
> Rainfall around the region:
> http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR712.loop.shtml#skip
> 
> ...


Further some notes on Wind, Swell, Currents, Precipitation, Visibility, Tides and Fronts.

WIND:
Friend or foe. Either way, it doesn't take much distance over water ('fetch') for a 10 knot wind to produce waves, on even an inland waterway. In BOM (marine) forecasts the effect of wind on the ocean is referred to as 'seas' (different to swell). While out there be aware of sudden changes or trends that are _not_ forecast. This could be a gust well above forecast strength, clouds thickening or bases getting darker, squalls starting to form etc. With squalls, the wind can whip up dramatically kilometres (minutes) ahead of the rain column.

SWELL: 
The result of wind blowing over the ocean for considerable distances (or large lake). Swell can be generated by wind in weather systems hundreds or thousands of kilometres from your launch site, so it can be calm to launch but the surf could be enormous. The modern weather tools mentioned above are fairly accurate in predicting swell heights. Note that tides and wind and geography of the coastline can affect the swell height as well.

CURRENTS:
Ocean currents (e.g. East Australian Current) can reach 5 knots! This is of such importance to large commercial shipping that they frequently steer a longer course to avoid counter currents. I have been caught in the EAC way offshore of Moreton Island, and it took an hour of maximum exertion in a ferry glide angle to make the surf to get away from the strong effects of it. The EAC does vary in strength and distance from shore, and you are not immune close to shore at times.
Currents in rivers and estuaries, due to tidal changes and/or fresh outflow can be over 10 knots. Even a gentle current against the wind will steepen wave faces and slow progress or affect your stability.

PRECIPITATION:
Rain, drizzle, storms.... you're wet, possibly cold, and maybe can't see where you are or where you're going. Storms or squalls are often accompanied by strong gusts well above the average wind strength.

VISIBILITY:
Visibility is reduced in all of the above, but also in fog and mist, which can produce a totally eerie, unnerving and dis-orientating whiteout. Fog and mist are low level clouds, formed when the air at or near the surface reaches the dew point (i.e. normally invisible water vapour becomes visible fine water droplets, due to the air cooling and becoming saturated. This is very dangerous to a yakker in or near busy shipping areas. Fog and mist are usually predicted, and are most prevalent between March and May, and August and October. 
In periods of low light, say at dawn and dusk, and when heavily clouded, there are difficulties with depth perception, discerning land mark and navigation markers.
Paddling directly into the sun will render you virtually blind.

TIDES:
Tides produce currents in estuaries and sometimes along coastlines, and affect the height of ocean swells and where they break. Tide heights vary with the moon cycle, highest being around the full and new moons, while the highest tides of the year are at night in winter, and during the day in summer. Tide heights (HAT) vary considerably in Australia, right up to 10 metres in a few localities. [An anomoly can occur in some areas, mostly well into estuaries/rivers....say on an incoming tide with a high tide at 9 am. At 8 am the incoming current reverses but the water level continues to rise for an hour. Go figure! (there is a reason but this post is already too long ) ]

FRONTS:
Fronts mark the boundary between masses of air with differing humidities and temperatures. Their approach is often heralded by some form of clouds and/or precipitation, and often with major shifts in the wind direction and strength. Particularly with cold fronts, weather can be severe with thunderstorms and destructive winds. Even if you have a PA or an AI, don't get caught in a front.

Hope all this advice helps you keep safe and enjoying your yak fishing.

Cheers
Trevor


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## punchanello (Oct 6, 2011)

Very informative post Trevor. Thanks.


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## jonnyc (Mar 1, 2011)

Lol wow I'm going 2 have to print this post out to study this Info! Thanks Kyk1 and everyone else for their lengthy posts im sure the info will come in handy. 
I guess it just up to me now to get some first hand experience. Cheers ppl


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

Jonnyc

These comments are not directed at you, but are made to help anyone understand some of the problems we could face regarding weather etc while yak fishing. The story is hypothetical, but totally realistic, and with far worse consequences possible than those depicted. I could tell you some stories...

As noted there is a lot to reading _and_ interpreting weather. The complexity of weather systems and additional factors such tide & current, skills & fitness of the paddler, local knowledge, suitability of the kayak, and gear carried, contribute to the whole equation. Add the rate of change of various elements of the weather, and other factors and you have an equation that is exceedingly complex, possibly with answers that you don't like if you're not well prepared , or not observing conditions accurately (and reassessing quickly).

Let me elaborate with one example in an area I am familiar with.....Jumpinpin in SE Qld, an estuary a kilometre wide. The bar is usually over a km wide, and 1-2 kms off the coast of the islands. Now this estuary has more tidal exchange of water than smaller estuaries or river/lake systems, but the principles are the same. The weather elements and other factors here are:

1. Ocean swell (size , direction and period). In this location swell can have a marked effect up to kilometre inside the estuary.

2. Wind strength and direction (predicted and actual)

3. Fetch (the distance over water on which the wind is acting) - this is called 'seas' on BOM forecasts. Also consider where you intend to fish in that area i.e. distance from land in relation to the wind.

4. Your intentions (out to the bar, or fishing north Stradbroke Is, etc.)

5. The tide at the time, the range of the tide, and the period into the tidal cycle you will be fishing there

6. Presence of precipitation, or forecast or observed likelihood of it

Scenario: There is a SE swell of 1 metre (from the latest marine forecast, which you have consulted at 3.10 am). The forecast wind is light offshore winds early becoming 10 - 15 knots SE by afternoon. You note the forecast is spot on as you coast down with a light SW'er on the outgoing current. The tide heights are low of 0.4, and high of 2.3. Your intention is to fish both North and South Stradbroke. You arrive early am adjacent South Straddie with 2 hours to low tide (on Brisbane Bar times), and note tiny swell in the estuary mouth and little wind action. As you move further out of the estuary you note waves to 30 cm breaking on the outer island shore towards the ocean side...very small surf.

You are not in the least bit worried, you have a 45 flattie in the bag from the troll down, and it's almost a millpond as the tide slows. There is virtually no wind and soon you have a lovely 1 kg tailor in the bag as well. You decide to continue trolling, and start crossing over towards north Straddie...it is only one km. On the way across you see a green wave that looks larger, maybe half a metre. Then another, but no worries, you're in deep water so they're not breaking. But they are a lot bigger than the previous hour. What's happening you may wonder?

As you hear the magic ZZZZ of another bigger tailor hooked, you begin a spirited fight, but fail to notice the wind on your back is now 6 knots and increasing, and so is the swell height. As you try to dehook the trophy fish you suddenly hear the noise of a breaking wave, really close, and look to see 50 cm of whitewater in front of you. You have stumbled onto a mid estuary sandbar and your side surfing skills are about to be tested. How can this be? It was a millpond. It is no longer. You are in breaking surf, when you never intended going anywhere near surf (there was none at all 2 hours ago). The wind is now 12 knots (2 - 3 hours earlier than predicted), and as you panic to dehook the tailor, you embed the treble in your finger. A second later you get rolled by a breaking wave. The end result is .....

At least the tide is starting to turn and run into the estuary, so you got that right, and the debris will all end up in the estuary. You're tangled in a line, rods overboard, as another wave hits you. You can re-enter, can't you? With a treble in your finger? :shock:

*So what went wrong?*

1. You lacked local knowledge. The tide on the ocean side changes 90 minutes before the Brisbane Bar time. The tide on the ocean side changed over an hour ago and is now building pressure against the last bit of outflow in the estuary. The outer bars already have a foot extra water over them, and the ocean swell is increasing in size and is allowing bigger and bigger swells to cross the bars and enter the estuary. While you were pulling in the first tailor the swell was already increasing out wide and increasing in size in the estuary, but you didn't notice as dinner came to the yak.

2. The wind sprang up 2-3 hours earlier than predicted and you failed to observe the change. Don't get stuck in the forecast mindset, as it's now way out of date. When on the water observation is far more relevant.

3. As you crossed towards north Straddie the fetch of the SE'er that had already started was increasing with every 100 metres you paddled north away from south Straddie.... in other words the seas were increasing. Again you didn't notice.

4. In crossing over, you were doing what you intended, but if you'd had the local knowledge you would have realised from the tide time differential that the swell was increasing. If observant you would have noticed the wind building, and caution may have dictated you stay in the lee close to south Straddie.

5. The tidal range was large, so changes occured quickly. Many of us have seen changes in conditions in minutes that could suddenly be threatening to life and gear. The Pin regularly changes quickly, as I once observed a $ 30,000 4 metre powerboat in millpond conditions to a sunken boat in less than an an hour. They weren't crossing the bar, but sitting at anchor in calm water close to shore on the ocean side. The swell built with the tide change, they were pooped (a wave from the rear), and down they went in less than 3 minutes, and they were fighting for their lives. They lost everything, boat, all gear, car keys and wallets, and damn near their lives (not wearing PFD's). They were only 100 metres from shore and a km from the bar proper.

Learning to read the forecasts is the first step in avoiding unpleasant experiences. Observing current conditions and noting changes are paramount. And local knowledge is invaluable.

Do try to learn more about the weather. If, while studying the info contributed, you have a question, just post it for an answer, or PM someone. There is a wealth of knowledge on AKFF. Probably a few of the members have been in trouble on at least one occassion and are always happy to help.

Towards safer yak fishing

Trevor


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## Beekeeper (Aug 20, 2011)

Trev, they were the best & most informative posts I've seen... and amazingly, you have at times experienced some awful situations, even tho' you have all this knowledge and experience at your fingertips. 
A green-horn at the game would possibly never have survived the first one.
Wouldn't it be great to have internet access when you're out on the water... look up to see where the forecast wind change is as of now... almost here... better bugger off home. 
Of course, I've heard you say before that you've radio'd the nearest coast-guard for an update on the wind-change whereabouts, and reacted promptly by heading in, just ahead of the change.
Again... great post!
Jimbo


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## sbd (Aug 18, 2006)

Lots of great info there thanks Trevor.

Heading offshore, I look at Seabreeze before leaving home, which gives me a current wind and swell forecast & provides a graph of the conditions during the night. Keep a weather eye on the horizon anyway, and if it looks dicey, cut the trip short if you're out there or pick a different option before you launch. Twice in the last couple of months I've picked another location after arriving at Longy & deeming it unsuitable, but it's better than being dead.



Beekeeper said:


> Wouldn't it be great to have internet access when you're out on the water... look up to see where the forecast wind change is as of now... almost here... better bugger off home.
> Jimbo


It's here now Jimbo, if you're in 3G range (pretty well everywhere around Sydney, & presumably other metro centres). Handy for live trip reports too.


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## Zed (Sep 18, 2006)

Seems like a nice day to go out, on the surface. Sun, blue skies, clear air, diminishing swell to <1m.

But, no. 30-50kt offshore winds at the coast. 
WV loop showing a L well inland. Pressure gradient of 1007.45mB in SoCal to 1041.31mB in Oregon.









This poor guy is in for a shock. Damn palm trees.

















No, I think an unplanned paddle to Brisbane is not warranted.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

Trev, thought I'd add my scenario. Also lengthy

A couple of points. The www sites (willy weather, wind finder etc) use data from the BOM. They interpret and sometimes give better local forecasts. But I am told ask them how their model works and they don't know. Its just commercial software. Otoh the BOM marine reports are off shore focused, and need interpretation to your local area.

East coast often has off shore wind in the morning, in shore wind in the afternoon. Racing Yachts will head out wide for prior to sun up, and hug the shore in the afternoon. We see this as calm dawn fishing, and blowy dusk fishing.

Which works for prevailing winds (the "trades") that don't prevail all the time. It's easy to not get it right.

But then there is the www sites which also need interpretation. To get this we need to understand waves.

Waves
In the middle of the ocean the wind blows consistently (strength and direction) building wind waves. These combine and build ultimately creating swell - typically with a long period between waves, a lot of water involved. This means a lot of power and a lot of speed. Something like 20-30km/h. As the water gets shallow swell stands up and turns into surf.

Back at the beach there has been a big swell for ages, but there is a new wind building wind waves and the old swell is backing off. The wind waves haven't had enough fetch to build so the waves are slower (that's good because we can catch these ones) and closer together. With local conditions eg shallow water and counter current you get chop.

BOM calls the old swell "swell" and the effect of the wind waves "sea". So BOM will tell you there is a 2m swell from the SE and a 1.5m sea, the wind is NE and so are the wind waves. Ie at 90 degrees to each other. Remember the swell is long but powerful, but the wind waves are tight together. Every now and then a swell will run under your yak at the same time as a wind wave "sea". 2m adds to 1.5m to give a water bump under your yak at about 3m. The wind waves may be breaking. The swell won't be, unless you are in shallow water where it just changed to surf, and god help you.

So at BOM in these conditions they will report swell and seas.work it out for yourself. But they may miss the dampening effect of still wind in the morning, and the accumulative effect in the afternoon.

And willy weather MAY average sea and swell, but don't recognize the direction or even the existance of the wind waves. You have to work it our yourself.

In Sydney add rebound waves from the cliffs from both the swell and the wind waves... We call it washy. But personally I prefer this to the chop in PPB or Moreton Bay.

Oh, when we accumulate the swell hitting the yak at the same time as a wind wave some will call this a rogue wave. Don't be fooled, it's entirely predictable.


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## GMansfish (Sep 5, 2009)

Smart phones are great tools for upto minute reports but, refresh the page to the weather service reguarlly as the phone memory could hold reports twelve or twenty more hours old. Check the time and date of report when reading and keep your instincts sharp, as the phone is only as good as the battery and signal strength.

Always have multiple back up plans, phone and two way, epirb etc. just my two cents worth.


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## GMansfish (Sep 5, 2009)

Smart phones are great tools for upto minute reports but, refresh the page to the weather service reguarlly as the phone memory could hold reports twelve or twenty more hours old. Check the time and date of report when reading and keep your instincts sharp, as the phone is only as good as the battery and signal strength.

Always have multiple back up plans, phone and two way, epirb etc. just my two cents worth.


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

dru said:


> In Sydney add rebound waves from the cliffs from both the swell and the wind waves... We call it washy. But personally I prefer this to the chop in PPB or Moreton Bay.
> 
> Oh, when we accumulate the swell hitting the yak at the same time as a wind wave some will call this a rogue wave. Don't be fooled, it's entirely predictable.


Valuable addition to the thread Dru. I was just about to add land and sea breezes. Your swell and 'seas; notes are excellent.

"In Sydney add rebound waves from the cliffs from both the swell and the wind waves... We call it washy." It is called clapitus. Clapitus is a technical term in kayaking which describes complex sea surface conditions caused by the reflection of waves from a cliff face.
Clapitus is probably a misspelling of clapotis, a French word meaning crossing, standing or lapping waves'. source Wikipedia

They can be fun too. There are a couple of locations in SE Qld where clapitus regularly occurs. One is on the W/SW side of Mudjimba (Old Woman) Island, where swell from both sides of the island impact in an explosive rooster tail of spray that can throw a kayak & yakker 2 metres in the air. Medium to large SE to NE swell direction is best. The other location is on North Stradbroke at Pt Lookout, about 50 metres E of the point of rocks at Cylinder beach. Here the swell comes in square onto the vertical wall of rocks, and the rebound meets the incoming wave with similar results. We used to play in these spots for the surfing thrills with the combination of bigtime air thrills. It was a high energy adreneline game. If you landed nose first from a great height you would sometimes hit rock on the bottom. This was a strictly whitewater helmets only play zone and you needed a bombproof roll.

"Oh, when we accumulate the swell hitting the yak at the same time as a wind wave some will call this a rogue wave. Don't be fooled, it's entirely predictable." If you wish to advance these skills play on a largish sandbar such as in Jumpinpin estuary with breaking waves. The swell breaks on the front of the bar, and unbroken swell wraps right around the bar colliding with itself at different points and from different directions all over the bar. One second you're front surfing a wave, then get hit by a side wave and thrown into the air. A second or two later you are hit head on, then picked up from the back quarter and side surfed. All good fun, and excellent rolling and bracing practice.

Thanks for a great post.

Trevor


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

Zed said:


> Seems like a nice day to go out, on the surface. Sun, blue skies, clear air, diminishing swell to <1m.
> 
> But, no. 30-50kt offshore winds at the coast.
> WV loop showing a L well inland. Pressure gradient of 1007.45mB in SoCal to 1041.31mB in Oregon.
> ...


Awesome weather. Do they declare a cyclone (hurricane) once it drops below 1000?


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

Waves - the short version. 

Use BOM maritime to check swell (direction and size) and seas (size). Seas pretty much means wind waves, so direction is most likely with the wind. Wind Forecasts are for off shore so can be misleading for inshore, especially at dawn when the sea breeze might not have made it to the coast.

Use willy weather, windfinder etc to get a better idea of the conditions at your local spot. But they don't separate wind waves from swell so you need to do this yourself.


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## Zed (Sep 18, 2006)

> Do they declare a cyclone (hurricane) once it drops below 1000?


Hurricane (force) is anything over 72mph. We had that and some. A relatively small peak, just N of Los Angeles, recorded a 140mph gust. There are thousands of trees down all over SoCal. Still hundreds of thousands of people w/o power from downed lines. NWS bigwigs are calling this a generational windstorm. Like once every 30yrs or so. It was howling for 18+hours. LAX lost power to all 19 terminals in a blink, but they got that back up pretty quick.

Amazing that no one passed away. Just superficial cuts and bruises, but so far no deaths from the downed trees or electrocution. BTW Eucalyptus (gum) are one of the main offenders. That is some heavy, dense wood! Just a limb goes right thru the roof, into the living room. The whole tree flattens the house.


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## eagle4031 (Jan 29, 2010)

i read willyweather and seabreeze sites last night to make my decision re a fish this morning. what was interesting is that both sites were different. At the end of the day i could have made a decision to fish and being aware that wind may come up, i would not venture too far offshore.
it is like the old days before technology - we would decied on a fish - wake up early - make a decision but be aware of possible threats. we always looked at the weather when out on the water - awareness is a lifesaver.


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