# braid knots.....why so weak....



## Astro (Nov 27, 2006)

I have just started using braid and have been trying various knots to join a mono leader to the main line. When I got the reel spooled at the shop it was recommended that I use the improved Albright to achieve this. So yesterday when out for a quick fish I got snagged and the line broke after only a little pressure was applied, I thought that the braid must have got cut by an oyster rock.

I replaced the leader and kept fishing until the clouds and rain closed in. when at home with the rain coming down I started to stress test various joining knots. I tried the improved Albright, twisted leader knot and two versions of the uni knot (line to line and the end loops (2))
as seen here: http://www.in-fisherman.com/magazine/gu ... p_Uniknot/

I tried each knot several times and found that the improved Albright was the weakest with the others being stronger. All knots except one the braid broke at the knot. Overall I was surprised at the LACK of pressure needed to break the knots. I am using 30lb braid and 80lb leader, so I tried 16lb mono instead and that required just as much pressure to break the knot as the braid.

Now I have no tools to measure how much pressure I applied so it is all a guesstimate.

Does anyone use other knots for braid - mono joining that could offer more strength?

Btw I also found if you get a knot in your braid this is a very weak point and breaks with only a little pressure applied&#8230;..


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## xerubus (May 17, 2007)

i swear by the the uni-to-uni knot mate. that is what I always use, and it has never failed me once. give it a go, i think you'll be happy with it's strength.


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

I too have found the albright to be relatively weak. If I get snagged, it always breaks rather than the terminal knot (usually a perfection loop). Had persisted though because it slides through the guides well but have also had problems getting it to tighten on the leader. Sometimes it tightens well, as other times the leader just slips.

Now, I just use the stren knot: http://www.lyndenhuggins.com/Fishing/Knots.htm Easy to tie on the water, goes through the guides OK and definitely stronger than the double-uni. When I get snagged, it is rare for this knot to be the weakest point


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## Astro (Nov 27, 2006)

thanks for your replies guys.

peril: just tried the stren knot and it seem to break just like the others...

lefty: i only had one knot that fail (come undone) all the others the braid broke....yes i use spit too...

kraley: yes i am aware that knots only retain a % of the line strength, extra turns don't seem to help, i did vary the amount of twists i used

xerubus: which uni knot is that?? the line to line one??

the real test will come when i hook a big barra.........one day soon i hope......


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## driftr (Sep 4, 2006)

ive been using the double uni lately but am going back to the improved all bright as it goes through the guides alot easier.
i dont usually have a problem with the knot breaking but have found that if you dont wrap the braid enough it will cut through the mono under pressure


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## xerubus (May 17, 2007)

yep.. line to line.


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

What brand of line are you using?
Sorry but you cant use normal mono, you need to go out and buy proper good quality Fluorocarbon. Some cheap braid is very abrasive, and will cut through your leader very easy. How long is your leader? I wouldn't use any less than 3 mtrs for the fishing you do, some recommend 50 mtrs for big fish, especially when trolling. The leader acts as a shock absorber, the longer the leader the better the shock absorption. Do you spit on the knot as your tightening? The friction of pulling the knot will make it weak. After all that you should have a stronger knot, but it will still break at the knot but not as easy. You could use enough leader so you can pull the line up from the bottom when snagged.......and why are you getting snagged?.....are you using too heavier lead or too deep a diver lure?

Please ignore every thing I've typed if you have done all this.


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## Phoenix (Jan 12, 2006)

I find the line to line knott too chunky and difficult to cast through the guides on the rod. I now use a knott that dodge recomended, cant remember the name - but it is pretty low profile.


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

Just did a little experiment....hell I should be workin.

Albright knot, with cheap 60lb braid verses good quality 40 ld fluorocarbon leader.

The braid broke at 30 lds, just above the knot, using berkley scales. The knot was fine. Unfortunately I dont have any good braid over the 8 lb mark.

So again check the quality of your gear.


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## Astro (Nov 27, 2006)

wow....ar we ther yet.......good on ya.....

the braid is the bulk stuff the tackle world use...so it can't be bad or they would have heaps of customers upset...i suppose..

the braid for me was breaking right at the knot no tag at all left over. the leader is penn10x - super tough and is 40lb not 40kg...oops

there is no cutting of the mono by the braid, out of the 20 - 30 knots i have tied over the last 2 days all except one has broken the same way.

will have to invest in some scales so i can be more sciencetific,

so.....ar we ther yet....60lb broke at 30lb with albright...what does a double uni break at?????


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2007)

I use Berkley Vanish 14 pound as a leader.

I use fireline as a main line.

I exclusively use the Albright, very easy to tie anywhere especially on a kayak.

I have had trouble with this knot, when the knot is tighten the braid will cut throught the leader. This has been with any fireline with a breaking stain of 6lb or less. I have since started using 8lb and 10lb, since the change no trouble.

Also when pulling down up the knot you must moisten it with saliva, its amazing how much heat is generated by tightening a knot.

Albright always goes through my guides as I trim the knot very neatly. 

Cheers


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## RobDrew (Sep 15, 2007)

I was so dissapointed with leader knots when I first started useing braid that my first spool was nearly my last! Through countless hours of trial and error both on and off the water I have reached several conclusions.

1 All braids are not equel. There are two main types of braid (not including fireline which is diff again), spectra and dyneema, I no longer buy dyneema, regardless of brand. For some reason, Finns definitely has higher leader knot strength than any other braid I have tried, and thats quite a few. Tuf is very good as well. No knot works above 50% with whiplash!!

2 The best knot for both strength and running through the guides, for me, has been the "slim beauty" knot. Tied with the braid doubled, 8 turns up and 8 back, its a bloody strong knot. I can use ordinary mono as a leader material no worries with this knot. It takes a bit of practice and some don,t pull up right, each knot should be well tested before you use it in anger. If you have the slightest doubt, do it again.

heres a link to the slim beauty http://www.fishnet.com.au/library/knots ... _knot.html

3 you cannot over lubricate any knot, more spit, better knots.

4 Use braid heavier than you need. I probably over do it but, say on my 2500 spin reel that has two spools I have 8lb mono on one and 15lb braid on the other. On my 4000 15lb mono and 30lb braid.

5 practise, over and over, you will be rewarded.

6 My eyes are not what they used to be and tying fiddly knots in the dark is a thing of the past for me. A simple surgeons knot with extra turns can be tied blindfolded and will be nearly as strong as any of the fancy knots for a braid /leader connection.

Hope this helps.


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## DougOut (Dec 31, 2006)

Astro said:


> the leader is penn10x - super tough and is 40lb


I use the same penn leader and have found that *"I must double the braid "* otherwise the knot will easily fail
by doubling the braid main line (at and for the knot only) your roughly matching the diameter of the leader....it's important to have similar diameters when joining line-to-line
double "at the knot" will work with almost any line-to-line knot you prefer
almost gave braid away in sure disgust until discovering the need to double-up for the knot :shock:


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

Astro said:


> wow....ar we ther yet.......good on ya.....
> 
> the braid is the bulk stuff the tackle world use...so it can't be bad or they would have heaps of customers upset...i suppose..
> 
> ...


Mate I havent been able to break the Albright. The best I could get was 35lbs out before the main line broke. I like the albright, its easy to tie, I've got way too many thumbs to be bothered doing the other knots these days.
The only difference to the standard tie is I twist the nylon a few times before wrap it with the braid, makes it easier to tie and binds the 2 better.

Your knots are only as good as your weakest link. I'm afraid when most companies put there own brand on something it usually means they picked it up cheap from china. But the only way to find out is to test the breaking strain with some scales.

I have penn 10x leader as well as vanish......I'm afraid it doesnt hold a candle to the good stuff like "Yamatoyo". I'm fast learning that if you spend a little more and get reasonable quality it pays for itself. Last weekend when I was fishing in the dam I never had on single knot failure ( using 6 and 8 lb leader) and I was using the same albright knot all weekend without retieing once. Got snagged caught over 20 fish no problems, the only time I lost a lure is when I accidentally cut my mono main line on one of my outfits.


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## DGax65 (Jun 7, 2006)

I've been using the Albright knot ever since I started using Spectra a few years ago. You have to get a lot of turns on the knot; especially if there is a large difference between the line diameters. I usually use 50 or 65lb Spectra joined to 30 or 40lb fluorocarbon. The thin Spectra will easily cut through the Fluorocarbon if it doesn't have enough turns. The guy at the tackle shop suggested using 13 turns. I regularly put 20-23 turns on the line before cinching it up. I also try to constantly adjust the lay of the line as I'm wrapping. I get a very smooth, low-profile knot that goes through the guides easily when casting. I've never broken a knot if I tied it properly.


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## pescado (May 17, 2007)

Hey Astro, have you tried the improved albright? Im yet to have this fail on me (touch wood)

http://www.marlinnut.com/knots/albright.shtml

Used to use the uni to uni and its a good strong knot but found it an absolute pain to tie and a bit too clunky through the guides IMO

cheers


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## yakfly (Jun 8, 2006)

Astro
are you tying the braid as a single line or are you making a double first before tying the albright?
if you dont lubricate the knot with a bit of spit,the heat generated by tightening it up will weaken
the knot.


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## Astro (Nov 27, 2006)

thanks for the tips guys..

yes i always lube my knot before tightening and i will try doubling the braid when i tie the knot

let you know how i go


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## Astro (Nov 27, 2006)

well guys i had plenty of opportunity today to test knots in real working conditions and the double uni worked a treat.....

thanks for all your input.....


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## oztrav (Aug 26, 2007)

my leader knot is the 5 turn surgeons easy as to tie only prob with it is if using light braid 4 pound or so and a thicker leader for flattie fishing i dont know why but it seems to cut through or just slide out even with doublin the braid i guess some things arent meant to be


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## Gigantor (Jun 27, 2006)

Astro,

Uni-knot to uni-knot is the best I've found for lighter lines. I use 4.5kg braid to either 4kg or 6kg fluoro leader.

Cheers, Pete


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