# UHF/VHF for yaks?



## goanywhere (Feb 22, 2011)

Following on from the last post (Reading Weather), it seems that taking a radio with you to be able to communicate with the coastguard/surf lifesaving clubs/other boats etc. would be a good idea. I have a couple of small portables but they aren't effective over about 2km, so I have been thinking of getting a better handheld radio. I have UHF in my 4wd but it's hardwired.

Does anyone take a handheld radio out with them? What types are the best for marine use? Are there any waterproof ones available?


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## Ironbar (Apr 7, 2008)

there's a couple of similar posts in the safety section of this forum now.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=51349


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## Dodge (Oct 12, 2005)

goanywhere said:


> I have a couple of small portables but they aren't effective over about 2km,
> 
> Does anyone take a handheld radio out with them?


A few of us are carrying small UHFs and it is adequate for our needs between yaks only, but as you said only have a range of about 3kms over water, but they have no ability for contact to any shore bases which we do not need for our own purposes.


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## emufingers (Aug 11, 2010)

There are a few dual band handhelds appearing on the market. One by http://www.wouxun.com/Two-Way-Radio/KG-UVD1P.htm works very well and gives the ability to talk to stinkboats with marine uhf and to contact VMR on VHF 16 and to use VHF repeaters 20, 21, 80, 81. One VMR uses them to keep search controllers in touch while in transit. I am not sure about their waterproof satus, but they are so small that itshould not be hard to get a waterproof case around them. Power is 5w. They sell for about $130 in Australia.


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## sunshiner (Feb 22, 2006)

I never leave the beach without my handheld VHF, and backup cellphone. In fact, the vast majority of our gang of Noosa Yakkers are VHF equipped because we strongly encourage their use. Not only are they a potential lifesaver, but also they are very useful for keeping in touch with fellow yakkers. I use the Icom M33 but others use similar waterproof radios. Using the radio I can easily speak to our 24-hour Coastguard from out at sea, even 4-5 km from their receiving antenna. And of course in an emergency any other craft monitoring channel 16 can become your lifesaver.

Note that, due to past experiences, even though "waterproof" I stow the radio in a dry bag inside the hatch for surf zone transit.

STRONGLY recommend a VHF for offshore kayakers.

Kev


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## john316 (Jan 15, 2009)

sunshiner said:


> STRONGLY recommend a VHF for offshore kayakers.
> Kev


Pardon my ignorance on this matter as I haven't had anything to do with radios for 25-30 years. Do the VHF units have any effect outside communication between yaks? I was under the impression that then rescue services were all transferred to UHF now...

John


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## emufingers (Aug 11, 2010)

john316 said:


> sunshiner said:
> 
> 
> > STRONGLY recommend a VHF for offshore kayakers.
> ...


Opposite way around

VHF is the international rescue standard. UHF Marine is used a lot by stink boaters, but is to be phased out. VMR monitors vhf 16 as emergency channel. In SA we now have a very sentitive detection system on VHF and it is monitored 24 hours 7 days. While VHF is line of sight, the new system has high gain arials on hill tops along the coast with micro wave links to a central monitoring point.

Also VHF have repeater stations on CH 21 22 80 81 82 , Check you local VMR for the channels for you area. This give a rsnge of up to 50km.

UHF marrine is on a different frequency than CB UHF so they cannot talk to each other.

You are required to be licensed to use VHF. You can study and take the test on line. Look up the Australian Maritime College for details.


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## goanywhere (Feb 22, 2011)

Very useful replies guys. I was at Binks marine in Adelaide and was looking at a GSM VHF waterproof portable for around $150. Looks the goods, and not too expensive for the safety factor it offers. Might be the next item added to my kit.


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## skorgard (Oct 6, 2007)

Advice please. I am never out of phone range and have a waterproof case. The local coast guard number is in the phone. What advantages would I have with VHF?


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

skorgard said:


> Advice please. I am never out of phone range and have a waterproof case. The local coast guard number is in the phone. What advantages would I have with VHF?


Skorgard, marine resue want to put us on the watch list. The Idea would be to register with them, phone in where you are going and eta for return. They then monitor.

Also weather updates and ability to call in assistance from other boats.

Note, I don't have VHF, but I don't doubt there are advantages


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## emufingers (Aug 11, 2010)

skorgard said:


> Advice please. I am never out of phone range and have a waterproof case. The local coast guard number is in the phone. What advantages would I have with VHF?


Marine radios are designed to deal with the hostile salty environment. Mobile phones do work in coastal waters, but they are less reliable because of the damp environment and more subject to corrosion over time. If you issue a pan pan or a mayday on your vhf then the person who answers is likely to be a trained search and rescue operator or a boat that is nearby.


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

dru said:


> skorgard said:
> 
> 
> > Advice please. I am never out of phone range and have a waterproof case. The local coast guard number is in the phone. What advantages would I have with VHF?
> ...


"Skorgard, marine resue want to put us on the watch list. The Idea would be to register with them, phone in where you are going and eta for return. They then monitor."

What you actually do is radio VMR/Coastguard and give your yak description and intentions, with an ETA back onshore. They place you on their watch list, called 'the log'. If you do not respond by the end of their watch (the ETA) they will attempt to contact you, or call other vessels in the area to try to contact you.

If you still haven't responded, the next phase is to begin looking for you. It is comforting to know that someone is soon looking out for you even if you haven't set off a PLB...of course you may not actually be in trouble, as you may be out of range or have a dead radio. Or you could be in deep, deep trouble and unable to call. Marine rescue organisations are well equipped and can respond quickly with very seaworthy vessels, like big Sharkcats. For this reason you must advise any updates to your ETA. When you are safe, you recall VMR/Coastguard, and they take you off their log.

"Also weather updates and ability to call in assistance from other boats." This is invaluable.

I sometimes use my marine VHF for actual weather updates (storms, strong winds) from other craft or VMR/Coastguard. For example, if you are at Redcliffe, as I was yesterday, and there is little wind, but a strong wind change from the south is predicted, you can call "any vessel in southern Moreton Bay please report wind strength". 
As well mainly VMR/Coastguard, on channel 16 and then 67, broadcast "Securite Securite Securite" [pronounced 'secure-a-tay'], which indicates a message about safety, such as a hazards to navigation or important weather information, e.g. the southerly that was screaming up the coast yesterday about to hit Redcliffe. So I knew that things were about to rapidly deteriorate, even though wind at my location was 10 knots. Fifteen minutes later it was 15 knots as I positioned myself for one last drift in the SE'er, 2 kms offshore. It came with a bang, spot on the timing, and was 28 - 33 knots within 10 minutes. VHF is a valuable safety tool.

To call for help you contact all vessels in the area and VMR/Coastguard on channel 16. For example "Calling all vessels in the vicinity of Reef Pt Scarborough (repeat twice). This is kayakone, kayakone. I am 2 miles east of Reef Pt with a broken paddle and request assistance with a tow."

You will receive a response along the lines of "Kayakone, kayakone, kayakone, this is Deep Blue, Deep Blue. We are 3 miles off Reef Pt and are approaching to assist. Please give a description of your vessel" Very comforting.

It is also very useful for yak to yak communications. You can inquire how your mate is going (on a rarely used channel that yakkers mainly use), or you can brag or lie about your latest catch, or ask him for assistance if you have a massive hookup. You can tell your mate when you are returning to shore. The range of even the 5 watt radios is amazing....usually over 10 kms, and sometimes even in rough water over 20 kms.

The ability to get up to date information, to get direct help from vessels nearby (or VMR/Coastguard), and to chat to fellow yak fishos make this a worthwhile investment. Because of all these capabilities, and that it is waterproof to IPX7, it is my preference over mobile phones.



goanywhere said:


> Very useful replies guys. I was at Binks marine in Adelaide and was looking at a GSM VHF waterproof portable for around $150. Looks the goods, and not too expensive for the safety factor it offers. Might be the next item added to my kit.


Try Standard Horizon HX 851 from Marine Direct Australia.....floats, 4 power settings (1,3 5 & 6 Watt), GPS, strobe, and high range receive/transmit. Suggest extra Li-ion battery pack, and/or battery case to take AA batteries for longer trips. About $ 250 + extras + freight....check website.

However remember, if you're offshore (remember you could be in serious trouble even on an inland lake - though VHF is not meant to be used on land), if you are using a phone or VHF to call for help , _things are already very pear shaped_. Learning to read weather, safety drills, re-entry practice, swimming practice, and safety kit are all components to safer yakking. Radios can be a useful tool, but should be the last resort if all the above have failed you and you're in the poo.

Trevor

BTW a plug for VMR/Coastguard: They are largely staffed by volunteers and have limited funding. I urge you to consider to financially support your local VMR/Coastguard with either a yearly membership, and/or a donation.


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## simond11 (Aug 29, 2005)

Fantastic information, Trevor. I never go kayaking on the ocean without my Icom VHF. I also have a UHF, but I get sick of listening to morons whose every second word is f... and talk utter crap, clogging up the airways. VHF also has the advantage, as mentioned previously, to keep you updated with the weather. Great investment, goanywhere, and well worth spending the money. Never skimp on quality when it comes to safety.
Cheers


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## skorgard (Oct 6, 2007)

Pardon my ignorance but where I fish on Kangaroo Island the coast guard base is 50 km away and so a 5 W VHF wont reach so what use is it? I know that I can talk to other vessels but if there is no one around is this of little use?


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## eagle4031 (Jan 29, 2010)

kayakone said:


> BTW a plug for VMR/Coastguard: They are largely staffed by volunteers and have limited funding. I urge you to consider to financially support your local VMR/Coastguard with either a yearly membership, and/or a donation.


i was actually thinking of becomiing a volunteer with them - you learn a lot too


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

skorgard said:


> Pardon my ignorance but where I fish on Kangaroo Island the coast guard base is 50 km away and so a 5 W VHF wont reach so what use is it? I know that I can talk to other vessels but if there is no one around is this of little use?


You may not be correct about that distance for successful transmission. At sea level with the Standard Horizon HX 851 (admittedly on 6 W power setting) I have made and received calls from vessels over 50 km away. I'm not sure if repeater masts have aided these communications.

However, to be certain before investing, contact the nearest VMR/Coastguard and ask them the range they have. You can achieve similar results to stink boats by a long aerial on your yak deck. Talk to local marine comms specialists. I asked this very question of one and they replied it would have to be 1.5 - 2 metres high to make a significant difference - weight/price were not significant factors. Because the SH is so powerful I elected not to bother.

Cheers
Trevor


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## emufingers (Aug 11, 2010)

Skorgard there is a VHF marine repeater on VHF 21 on KI the range can be seen at
http://www.sa.gov.au/subject/Transport% ... o+repeater

The SA government has just finished an upgrade to the VHF network in SA. Sea Rescue Adelaide is now the daytime monitor with Flinders Ports taking over from 7pm to 7 am. The network is based on a series of very sensitive aerials and microwave links providing very good coverage of all SA coastal waters including on the West Coast and KI. The maps of coverage are on

http://www.sa.gov.au/subject/Transport, ... o+coverage

Here is the VHF16 coverage by the hew service
http://www.sa.gov.au/subject/Transport% ... ice+(Ch+16)

KI waters are covered by Coastguard services on the island and Sea Rescue Wirrina.


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## goanywhere (Feb 22, 2011)

skorgard said:


> Advice please. I am never out of phone range and have a waterproof case. The local coast guard number is in the phone. What advantages would I have with VHF?


Around areas where phone coverage is good, and if you can keep your phone dry the case for a radio is less. But if you want easy communication between boats, or go to areas with poor or no phone coverage then a radio is obviously the answer. Also, you can scan channels and listen in on conversations with others in the vicinity which can alert you to dangers or problems others are having etc.

That's just a few advantages.


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## skorgard (Oct 6, 2007)

Thanks guys. From the maps of repeater stations, I can see how they can give a map of reception for their transmissions, but surely that does not help them receive my transmissions as that depends on my power. There is high land between me and the coastguard base and so with 50 km I dont see that it would make it. There is a volunteer intermittently manned base at American River (short line of sight) but it cannot be guaranteed to be manned if and when I make an emergency call. There are usually other boats in the bay but I cant assume that all will be monitoring emergency channels.

Any advice / comments?

PS Jerry could to see that despite you selling your yak you are still contributing here. we met on the beach in Adelaide a year or two ago.

Thanks

Paul.


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

Most boats are monitoring channel 16 all the time.

If you're yakking within 15 kms of boats you should be heard.


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## emufingers (Aug 11, 2010)

Hi Paul,

The new monitoring system has amazing receiver sensitivity. Recently a malicious mayday call was picked up in Adelaide monitoring centre from the top of spencer gulf. The transmission was not only received and two way contact made but the towers were abke to triangulate the position and a search was launched. The initiator of the call is now facing a very expensive fine, his call was automatically taped. I suggest you borrow a hand held and try it out where you fish. Just remember though don't mention the fifth month of the year.

The coast station in adelaide scans all VHF frequencies including the repeaters. If you want to check just call searescue adelaide sea rescue adelaide searescue adelaide this is adventure island at American beach on VHF channel xx. Try VHF 16 then 21 then 80. My bet is that the 80 repeater at Myponga will give ou a crystal clear link.

I still love the idea of yakking. I just live in a place where safe opportunities are too rare and there seem to be no fish in the safe waters. The offshore winds in summer have to be seen to be believed. In the past five years there have been three separate kayak searches, one unfortunately was a dual fatality and another a very close call with hypothermia.


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

In addition to emufingers excellent info, when you borrow a handheld and receive a reply, you can request a 'readability check'. VMR/Coastguard will respond with either "just readable"; or "loud and clear", or "breaking up". They may also use a number grading, where 1 is barely readable and 5 is very clear and loud.

You can phone them beforehand to ask them about the terminology they will use.


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## johnH (Jun 2, 2009)

Do you still need a licence to operate VHF? I recall reading something about the rules being reviewed.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

skorgard said:


> Pardon my ignorance but where I fish on Kangaroo Island the coast guard base is 50 km away and so a 5 W VHF wont reach so what use is it? I know that I can talk to other vessels but if there is no one around is this of little use?


I have this problem for a trip at X-mas. You will still receive from marine search and their warnings, but very likely you won't reach them. Unless there is a repeater in the are? This is a problem if you are on the watch list. Some touring kayaker then back this up with sat phone. It's a ball ache.

I'm thinking of rolling with VHF anyway. There is always a chance there will be another vessel within reach who can relay messages. And not too bad backed up with an appropriate PLB.


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## andybear (Jan 15, 2006)

johnH said:


> Do you still need a licence to operate VHF? I recall reading something about the rules being reviewed.


My understanding is that you are supposed to hold a certificate of proficiency. (Marine Radio Operators VHF Certificate of Proficiency)
The actual rules say that you must hold this, but it is understood that a blind eye will be turned, providing the operator doesn't foul up badly enough to need penalising.
There are on line courses, that cost about forty or fifty dollars, then you must present yourself for the examination, by an authorised invigilator. The invigilator sends the paperwork away for marking and the issue of the certificate. In my opinion, the course is worthwhile doing in any event.

Cheers, and I hope this helps..... andybear


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## Musty (Oct 12, 2010)

goanywhere said:


> Following on from the last post (Reading Weather), it seems that taking a radio with you to be able to communicate with the coastguard/surf lifesaving clubs/other boats etc. would be a good idea. I have a couple of small portables but they aren't effective over about 2km, so I have been thinking of getting a better handheld radio. I have UHF in my 4wd but it's hardwired.
> 
> Does anyone take a handheld radio out with them? What types are the best for marine use? Are there any waterproof ones available?


I take a hand held VHF with me when I go offshore, or even if im fishing Botany Bay/ Sydney Harbour.
The reason for this apart from the obvious safety aspect and communication, having a VHF with me provides me with the latest in weather conditions, shipping movements, alerts or any other warnings that may be issued to either Maritime, Coastal Patrol, or Harbour Control.
It also helps to break up the boredom and can sometimes hear other fisho's reporting on catches with one another esp commercial charter boats which is interesting.
I use the icom M34 which is waterproof and submersible, floats and is 5watts which is the highest available in Aus.

Cobra make some units which are also submersible and have bluetooth capabilities which means you can talk on your mobile fone through your VHF and not have to worry digging it out. A rewind feature is also handy if you missed half of a weather update or something.
for a few hundred dollars I figured a decent marine radio was a good investment.

Cheers
Musty


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## jtugores (Nov 2, 2009)

So, can anyone recommend me a good one?
Basically I need it to be able to communicate with the coastguard, boats around, and kayakers. Nothing fancy, but it would be good if it comes waterproof too.
Any model? price?

It would definetelly will be my christmas present.

Cheers


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

Standard Horizon HX 851 from Marine Direct Australia..... http://www.marinedirect.com.au/ 
Floats, IPX7, MSC, GPS, Strobe, 1,3, 5 & 6W.... 
Recommend a spare Li Ion battery, and/or a battery pack for AA batteries. About $ 250 + extras + freight.

I should be getting a friggin' commission from these dudes.

Trevor

There are several other brands available here with Australian warranty, and some are more compact. See... 
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=51349


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## BaysideKayakAngler (Mar 30, 2011)

kayakone said:


> It is also very useful for yak to yak communications. You can inquire how your mate is going (on a rarely used channel that yakkers mainly use), or you can brag or lie about your latest catch, or ask him for assistance if you have a massive hookup. You can tell your mate when you are returning to shore. The range of even the 5 watt radios is amazing....usually over 10 kms, and sometimes even in rough water over 20 kms.


G'day kayakone,
Just wondering which channel number is the rarely used channel that yakkers mainly use?
Thanks.


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

BaysideKayakAngler said:


> kayakone said:
> 
> 
> > It is also very useful for yak to yak communications. You can inquire how your mate is going (on a rarely used channel that yakkers mainly use), or you can brag or lie about your latest catch, or ask him for assistance if you have a massive hookup. You can tell your mate when you are returning to shore. The range of even the 5 watt radios is amazing....usually over 10 kms, and sometimes even in rough water over 20 kms.
> ...


Send a PM

K1


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## jtugores (Nov 2, 2009)

Thank you very much Trevor!!! I really appreciate your time and knoledge.
May I ask if there is any other option?
I checked in the website and the cost will be more than 300.00 with the whole delivery + extras. Is there anything a bit more accesible in the market that you think could work in a good level as that one?

Thank you so much!!

Juan


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=51349

Lots of other options, but don't buy cheap and nasty. When you need it, it must work.


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## jtugores (Nov 2, 2009)

Hi Members!!

I just received this email from the company invisible comms marine regarding to their advice regarding to radios and prices. Any advice? It seems way to expensive...

Email received:
Hi Juan,

Thanks for your enquiry. My advice for kayaking would be certainly a floating radio!

The HX851S is an excellent radio, particularly since it has the added safety feature of GPS and digital selective calling. We are currently offering a clearance special on the HX850S, which is the original version, which is almost exactly the same as the new 851S. The 851S only has minor software upgrades.

The Australian model 850 and 851 will only transmit 5 watts due to legal requirements. The only real difference you will notice (between 5 and 6 watts), is that your battery lasts longer with only 5 watts. It's important to buy a genuine Aussie radio because you get proper support, plus the radio is slightly different from overseas radios due to local requirements.

While stocks last, we can offer you the HX850S for $499 including shipping to your location in Sydney. RRP is $712.

If you are after a cheaper radio, the HX751S also floats ($399, free shipping). The HX280S does not float, but is only $329. It is waterproof.

All Australian Standard Horizon radios come with a three year waterproof warranty, and are very rugged and high quality, so are perfect for your application.

I have attached a brochure for your information, and you may also find more information at http://vxstd.com.au/Products/StandardHorizonMarine.aspx

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Ben Cosier

Invisible Communications Pty Ltd
Mobile: 0424 847 853
[email protected]
www.invisiblecommunications.com.au
ACN: 145 086 362

What do you guys think? Any better way to get this sort of equipment? From america?

Thank you again!


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## badmotorfinger (Mar 15, 2010)

Yeh, way to expensive. Either import through K1's recommendation or if you want local support on radio with similar features look at the Lowrance lhr-80. About $250 through Keoghs marines online.

I'm actually tossing up between these two currently. The Lowrance has a bigger screen, better battery life and some better gps functionality but I read some negative. Comment on its battery compartment not being completely sealed (terminals only).

The standard horizon has pros of build quality, power, accessories and inbuilt light.

Anyone Sydney based interested in group buy of the hx851?


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## Ironbar (Apr 7, 2008)

have a look at this

http://www.prestigecom.net.au/index.php ... &cPath=366

I don't know how good they are or if there's other companys that are cheaper, just did a quick google search and found it...


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## jtugores (Nov 2, 2009)

I just found this company "Turtle Marine" in the USA, and the prices are un real. I just sent an email to them asking for help. I will keep you updated. I think the HX850 is the way to go... they are some good specials as the new version just come out.

Cheers to all!!!


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

ordered mine from the place k1 suggested. Shipping is expensive, but otherwise fine.

1 [37586] 37586 Standard Horizon HX851 6W Floating $253.24
Handheld VHF Radio HX851 ================


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## jtugores (Nov 2, 2009)

Thanks guys!!

I will wait for the response from the Turtle Marine, otherwize I will be ordering as recommended. I think that I will be going for the HX850S. It is quite the same to the HX8501S but a lot more cheaper. Sale for $168.

Thank you so much for your advice.

Cheers,

Juan


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## jtugores (Nov 2, 2009)

Shit!!! do you have to have a licence to use one of those? Is that complicated to obtain? expensive?

Nothing is easy now a days...


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

jtugores said:


> Shit!!! do you have to have a licence to use one of those? Is that complicated to obtain? expensive?
> 
> Nothing is easy now a days...


Yes you need a license. I'm not sweating it. Check this site http://www.amc.edu.au/handbook
And download this • Marine VHF Radio Operators Handbook

It'll need a little study but doesnt seem to be a problem.


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## emufingers (Aug 11, 2010)

Make sure you just do the MRCP VHF. The MROCP includes HF. Twice as many questions and lots of frequencies to remember and more expensive. I can't imagine using high power HF in a yak.


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## skorgard (Oct 6, 2007)

Jerry did you mean MROVCP?

Thanks


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## emufingers (Aug 11, 2010)

Woops You do the MROVCP for vhf and The MROCP for VHF and HF. I hate acronyms Thanks Paul


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

You can ask Marine Rescue or stink boaters how far the range extends. Subtract a few kms for handheld at sea level. You might be pleasantly surprised to find the range for you is over 15 kms, which is possibly far further than you want to be paddling a SOT from land.

Trevor


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## emufingers (Aug 11, 2010)

Our local repeater is 600 metres up and is very sensitive. Find out about you local repeaters.


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## solatree (May 30, 2008)

I think Jerry has already covered the fact that there is a new VHF marine radio network just launched in SA - see http://dpti.sa.gov.au/ondeck/news?244

A bit more info - 
This new network operating as 'Coast Radio Adelaide' will provide comprehensive 24/7 VHF coverage of the State's coastal waters from beyond Fowlers Bay on the far west coast and right across the Victorian border, reaching out between 30 and 50 nautical miles."

"The 14 new remote base stations across the state will also provide coverage of all Gulf Waters and water surrounding Kangaroo Island."

"This will provide boaties with a vital safety-net on VHF marine channels 16 and 67, which will be continuously monitored 24 hours a day every day as of Monday, 12 September 2011, Since December, volunteers at the SA Sea Rescue Squadron have been trialling the new network and the new operator consoles to finalise procedures for this official state-wide rollout in September."

To ensure 24-hour coverage, Flinders Ports will monitor the network from the hours of 7.00 pm to 7.00 am. Volunteers will continue their dedicated monitoring throughout the day.

All boats - both recreational and commercial vessels - are encouraged to use this network if requiring urgent assistance.

Boaties should continue to use channel 16 as the primary channel for distress and safety calls.


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## emufingers (Aug 11, 2010)

I love the coverage in th he Hilly areas That's what you call forward thinking for sea level rise. On a serious note, thats a good piece of succinct infromation,


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