# Paddles - do they fail



## Psport (Oct 22, 2013)

I've been paddling for a couple of months now, using the Aluminium type paddles that were thrown in with kayak when I bought it. They are extremely stiff to click together and on occasions I've had to give them a gentle tap to get them together. Yesterday while paddling hard in a very strong breeze, I started to hear a slight cracking noise as if the paddle was flexing. The noise didn't give me a lot of confidence, and some of my trips are 6-7 hours up fairly isolated creeks, I'd be fairly farked if they broke. 
Can/do paddles break. ? I know I'm up for a new paddle even just for the piece of mind.
Cheers


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

Fail?

Yes. A spare paddle (split paddle) will get you home.


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## Psport (Oct 22, 2013)

Have you ever had one break


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## Salty Dog (Sep 18, 2005)

Have never had one break on me but have read reports of paddles failing - Hobie was one of the brands. Have also looked at some of the cheap ones & can see the blades held on by rivets. Haven't seen them fail but somehow it doesn't seem right from an engineering perspective.

You wouldn't expect it to be a common thing but they could fail & more likely to when you are putting a lot of pressure on them. I am guilty of not carrying a second paddle but it certainly makes sense.


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## Junglefisher (Jun 2, 2008)

I've busted a couple of non-hobie paddles. Usually putting in a big power stroke when it happens.


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## Bigdyl (Feb 13, 2012)

I've broken one paddling out through surf. I agree, it sucks.


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## Psport (Oct 22, 2013)

I might invest in one of those fancy carbon ones ,I'm assuming that they're the bee's knees..


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## suehobieadventure (Feb 17, 2009)

Search the posts RE carbon paddles. I think you might be better off with a good light weight shaft and plastic blades for a good all round paddle, especially if you yak anywhere near roacks. Chip a carbon blade and it's finished. Steer clear of wing blades (my opinion anyway). I bought a carbon paddle from Anaconda and it wasn't super expensive and is OK for river paddling but I still use my plastic blades aluminium shaft for sea kayaking. i too am guily of not carrying a spare paddle but should address that.


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2013)

Psport said:


> I might invest in one of those fancy carbon ones ,I'm assuming that they're the bee's knees..


They can still break. I have snapped one coming back in through the surf


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## systemtester (May 11, 2013)

So guys....Where doth one get oneself a spare paddle from? Is it a case of buying one that splits in two so you actually have a complete paddle (2 blade thingies) onboard? They are a rare find on the internets or am I just a bit slow and am not understanding the product features correctly? Do all adjustable paddles split and separate?

I presume a single blade spare (Edit: Think Dragon boat kind of single blade) is more useless than a cold pie for getting yourself back to port and with limited space to carry a full length paddle on my deck the split variety is what we should be chasing for off shore. Right?

I was at the recent safety day and this wasn't an immediate priority so didn't think to ask the Ocean Kayak guys these questions. Doh!


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

Psport said:


> Have you ever had one break


Yes.


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

systemtester said:


> So guys....Where doth one get oneself a spare paddle from? Is it a case of buying one that splits in two so you actually have a complete paddle (2 blade thingies) onboard? They are a rare find on the internets or am I just a bit slow and am not understanding the product features correctly? Do all adjustable paddles split and separate?
> 
> I presume a single blade spare (Edit: Think Dragon boat kind of single blade) is more useless than a cold pie for getting yourself back to port and with limited space to carry a full length paddle on my deck the split variety is what we should be chasing for off shore. Right?
> 
> I was at the recent safety day and this wasn't an immediate priority so didn't think to ask the Ocean Kayak guys these questions. Doh!


Correct about a split for offshore, or for that matter anywhere where you can't reach land or safety without a paddle. And that is a lot of places/conditions! As a last resort, without a spare, you can lie face down on your yak and paddle it with your hands (like a surfboard). As someone suggested, a pair of webbed gloves will assist in this emergency rescue method.

You can make a spare paddle. You can also buy them (forget the single blade idea). Here's one of many: http://www.bournemouthcanoes.co.uk/prod ... addles.htm

At the Safety Day at least some of the instructors were carrying one on the deck (you must be able to get to it if the primary one breaks). If you don't have one, you cannot get home.


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## Salty Dog (Sep 18, 2005)

Psport said:


> I might invest in one of those fancy carbon ones ,I'm assuming that they're the bee's knees..


They can be or not. Some are designed more for flat water sprinters with an emphasis on lightness over durability. There is some variation in strength & some that are more likely to fail than others, same with any other sort of paddle. Anyone who gets super serious about their paddling ends up getting a carbon paddle eventually. They are normally going after performance more than the ultimate in durability.

Flat vs wing is another topic again. All other things being equal, wing paddles can give you more speed if used correctly but flat blades give you more range of paddle strokes that can be performed more easily with a flat blade. The paddle gurus out there can fill you in.

I have a carbon paddle, (Epic mid wing) but can't call myself any sort of serious paddler.

I'll let the paddling gurus out there make their recommendations & let you know whether quality carbon is more likely to break than other paddles under normal circumstances. To be honest I have heard of more failures of plastic blade kayaks but they may just be because more people on here & AKFF have been using plastic bladed paddles.


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

suehobieadventure said:


> Search the posts RE carbon paddles. I think you might be better off with a good light weight shaft and plastic blades for a good all round paddle, especially if you yak anywhere near roacks. Chip a carbon blade and it's finished. Steer clear of wing blades (my opinion anyway). I bought a carbon paddle from Anaconda and it wasn't super expensive and is OK for river paddling but I still use my plastic blades aluminium shaft for sea kayaking. i too am guily of not carrying a spare paddle but should address that.


X2
Try this

http://store.carlislepaddles.com/catego ... ak_Paddles


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## Psport (Oct 22, 2013)

Thanks guys, I wouldn't call myself a serious paddler, so I'm now not sure about the carbon ones now.
Appears I need to research and improve my stroke, is the weight difference between say carbon and fibreglass that noticeable.


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## Psport (Oct 22, 2013)

ArWeTherYet said:


> suehobieadventure said:
> 
> 
> > Search the posts RE carbon paddles. I think you might be better off with a good light weight shaft and plastic blades for a good all round paddle, especially if you yak anywhere near roacks. Chip a carbon blade and it's finished. Steer clear of wing blades (my opinion anyway). I bought a carbon paddle from Anaconda and it wasn't super expensive and is OK for river paddling but I still use my plastic blades aluminium shaft for sea kayaking. i too am guily of not carrying a spare paddle but should address that.
> ...


Thank you ArWe, looks more range than my local BCF


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

Carbon shaft with a lumpy bit for your right hand and some nice stiff plastic blades at around 220cm is fine for kayak fishing...mine is 216cm.
Carbon bladed paddles are more technicaly demanding and I think are a pain for kayak fishing.

Carlisle make a fine paddle.


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## Psport (Oct 22, 2013)

Thanks Paul, just the advice I was after. 8) 
Cheers mate.

Eric, that looks like a good idea for when I grow a pair and venture outside :lol:


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

[Cant help myself, extended and edited.]

I managed to wait for everyone else for once. Whew.

So, to put it in a nutshell, my opinionated thinking:

1/ Yes the weight saving makes a difference... if you are racing;
2/ Not so much for fishing; not at all;
3/ Wing blades are not something to go to on a whim; you really should know WHY you want a wing before you go there;
4/ I use a (benign) wing for racing, and avoid it like the plague when fishing; no, most wings are not benign and this includes pretty much ALL wing blades that have names you are likely to recognise;
5/ Wings are faster by diddle-squat (technical term); 
6/ yes diddle-squat is important for racing; 
7/no diddle-squat means nothing to that pelagic you are chasing; and likely if you are pushing this hard, your fishing yak is at it's max boat speed anyway, it's a law of diminishing return that will give you (here it is again) diddle-squat;
8/ Carbon and aluminium are very similar, poor material for paddle shafts; too stiff and unforgiving;
9/ Even my racing wing paddle looks like carbon, but the shaft is 70% glass; see item 8 for why;
10/ Carbon is a long lasting material for a paddle (though I prefer kevlar for yak construction), no reason it wont stand up to punishment if built well;
11/ I have had a carbon paddle snap (blade came off the shaft); never on a glass or plastic paddle;
12/ many aluminium shaft paddles have loose connection to the blade, it really is a crap material for us;
13/ Werner is a shit-hot paddle manufacturer, there are others, but these guys are the ducks nuts; expensive though

SO, my thoughts (cue everyone to groan, "here he goes again"):

You dont have to step far to seriously improve things from an aluminium shaft paddle see AWTY reference to Carlyle. Just spot on. You have an excellent start here already. This step in my arrogant opinion is :
x glass shaft, plastic blades, something like 60 degree feather, keep it short, for me 220cm is a long paddle, longer than needed for just about all of us, assymetrical blades that are squarish in shape, no bigger than 650 sq cm in area.
x 2 piece is good, gives you a chance to try things and work a lot out yourself.

Next step when you want to throw money at it ( we all do sooner or later):
x you still don't need carbon... but it's possible that what I am describing only comes that way, better if it doesn't to be frank;
x Crank handle (bent handle, kink, etc, manufacturer's have different names);
x you'll want a name - Werner is good; I chose Mitchell; 
x rest of the spec is where we started, but there is a good chance at this stage that yo understand more about what I mean about length,and you'll want to shorten up. Try where you were-ish, as the max length on your 2 piece. You can shorten from there.

Then to wing blade. With a bit of experience with paddles following my above progression scheme - you will very quickly understand why I have been reticent. And go benign - for me this means parallel edge wings with small volume/area. If you are put off by paddles that are described as "good for the smaller man and for women" you are letting your ego take control. These are paddles designed for Olympians - if you can beat any of our women Olympian K1 paddlers... you are entitled to call me an idiot.

SO for what it is worth I currently have 6 paddles. My favourites are the Bennet Sprint (wing blade) carbon with 70% glass shaft (I had to insist on this particular shaft, it isn't the way they normally build them, it's the way that they WANT to build them because they know what they are doing, but they have to address a market that is stupid) and my Mitchell crank handle also all carbon. And my wooden Greenland Stick (also a Mitchell) which imvho (honest) is just designed for yak fishing, but no-one seems to be interested.

The Bennet is for racing and training in fast boats. The Mitchell for off shore. The Stick is a back up paddle and my preference when fishing estaurine (it is so quiet through the water, stealth fishing).


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## Salty Dog (Sep 18, 2005)

> SO, my thoughts (cue everyone to groan, "here he goes again")


Not at all Dru. I was baiting you after all! ;-)

Honestly was hoping that you would weigh in even though I was stubborn & went for my wing paddle.


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## wilson191 (Sep 22, 2012)

I broke both blades off a paddle in one trip whilst in a river.

Maybe some of the webbed finger gloves might be a good backup.

I have a seak expedition one from anaconder at the moment. I think its great. Really gets you moving and only cost $70


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## Psport (Oct 22, 2013)

Cheers Dru, wealth of information mate, I'll do my best to digest it.

Wilson, I spotted that one today , thanks for the thumbs up


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

Psport said:


> Cheers Dru, wealth of information mate, I'll do my best to digest it.
> 
> Wilson, I spotted that one today , thanks for the thumbs up


Pretty easy, for the expurgated version just read AWTY. I just gave you the reasons "why" when chatting over a beer after a long day fishing.


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

No one, (even Dru!  ) mentioned *injury risk*.

If your technique is not correct you will:

1. increase your risk of injury, regardless of the paddle you use - remedy....get professional paddling technique instruction.

2. not be able to paddle for a long time or a short time in adverse wind/seas without tiring quickly - remedy....get professional paddling technique instruction.

3. your risk of injury with a fully carbon paddle (particularly over long distances/at speed/bad conditions is greater then your risk of injury if using a fibreglass or Kevlar shaft. This is because carbon has almost no flex, whereas the others do have, and this helps to absorb some shock to the wrists etc.


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

kayakone said:


> No one, (even Dru!  ) mentioned *injury risk*.


I was getting to that but since you already have I wont bother. 



eric said:


> ArWeTherYet said:
> 
> 
> > Carbon bladed paddles are more technically demanding and I think are a pain for kayak fishing.
> ...


Read K1 post. I found the same thing with my carbon blade (not wing, there just silly for kayak fishing). Great if your technique is good and you have the correct size, but they can hurt you if you get a bit sloppy.

My favorite paddle for kayak fishing is my Perception/Mission Resolution paddle. http://www.missionkayaking.com/shop/ACC ... ADDLE.html
It ticks all the boxes of what a fishing kayak paddle should be. Its lightish, well built, has long, low volume fiberglass reinforced blades, so less technically demanding. The OP's kayak will have a cruise speed of around 4-5km/hr, so just needs something comfortable, durable and shouldnt hurt him if he cant be [email protected]#ked getting lessons. ;-)


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## Psport (Oct 22, 2013)

ArWeTherYet said:


> shouldnt hurt him if he cant be [email protected]#ked getting lessons.


That about sums it up.. :lol: :lol:


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## malhal (Jul 8, 2008)

My hobie paddle snapped last week it was the first time I have ever put any real bursts into it getting out in some small surf before engaging the mirage drive. Time for a new one.

Cheers Mal


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## Marty75 (Oct 23, 2007)

Dru, do you carry a backup paddle on board if yours snaps?

Am interested to find out if there are any decent paddles out there that break down so as can be stowed inside most SOTs via the hatch (other than Stealths), something like an emergency telescopic paddle or one that breaks down to 4 pieces or so???

Marty


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

Marty there are 3 piece paddles available commercially, or you can make your own. I will take a photo of a home made 3 piece and construction material/method. They are very compact and exceedingly strong.



kayakone said:


> systemtester said:
> 
> 
> > So guys....Where doth one get oneself a spare paddle from? Is it a case of buying one that splits in two so you actually have a complete paddle (2 blade thingies) onboard? They are a rare find on the internets or am I just a bit slow and am not understanding the product features correctly? Do all adjustable paddles split and separate?
> ...


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## Squidley (May 8, 2010)

wilson191 said:


> I broke both blades off a paddle in one trip whilst in a river.
> 
> Maybe some of the webbed finger gloves might be a good backup.
> 
> I have a seak expedition one from anaconder at the moment. I think its great. Really gets you moving and only cost $70


That was my first paddle and I had one of the blades come loose enough to spin and be removable by hand, take care. I since got a glass shaft plastic blade paddle that lasted twice as long til I got on the pedals.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

Marty75 said:


> Dru, do you carry a backup paddle on board if yours snaps?
> 
> Am interested to find out if there are any decent paddles out there that break down so as can be stowed inside most SOTs via the hatch (other than Stealths), something like an emergency telescopic paddle or one that breaks down to 4 pieces or so???
> 
> Marty


Not quite what you are asking for but this was my answer on the fishing SIK. It wont fit inside a small hatch, but is simple to stow on deck.










To be fair, I did NOT have a back up paddle when I broke mine. It led to a reconsideration of my off shore work (again to be fair, a decision to actually listen to the guys who coached me).

Here are a couple of reviews.
http://fatpaddler.com/2010/03/greenland ... arisons-2/
http://expeditionkayaks.blogspot.com.au ... eview.html

Greenland sticks have become something of a cult which is off-putting. But the advantages are:
x they pack flat
x two piece are not long so most of us will find a way to stow them
x very quiet in the water - stealth fishing
x very relaxed paddling style.

To be honest, while a spare paddle SHOULD be second nature just like a PFD and PLB, I only really take a pack up paddle when off shore. When I'm training I don't even have webbed gloves/bats etc, ie my only back up motor is swimming. In flat water this seems fine to me, in bigger closed waters like the Harbour it's probably not good behaviour. I am not about to change this on my ski. Need to rethink if I decide to take the ski off shore, at the moment I am no where near ready for that.

For kayaks and fishing skis, off shore if you don't have back up motion you are gambling. NOTE, some think I pick on Hobies in this environment, Here's one for the Hobie boys. With a paddle on board they always have back up motion. Time the rest of us caught up.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

ArWeTherYet said:


> kayakone said:
> 
> 
> > No one, (even Dru!  ) mentioned *injury risk*.
> ...


This is interesting for me so I am not compressing the above intro, best we read it all.

Paul, you always manage to make me take a breath and stand back and think, OK I missed something there.

To anyone working through the info here Paul has just recommended a style of paddle that I NEVER recommend. Let me acknowledge up front that Paul is right.

It's not that I am really wrong (honest, don't laugh at me too much yet) but I am working from a different context. I personally cant imagine anyone who would take up yakking, and not invest in training. And a yakker looking to head off shore, well who would do that without seeking training? Honest.

And Paul takes the pragmatic view that people wont seek training, what paddle will best suit. Same discussion from K1 on injury.

So let me explain the difference and you work out where you stand. I would call it trained paddle style vs untrained. Traditionally though it dumbs down to low paddle style vs high paddle style. There has been a view (imo old history viw) that a low paddle style is acceptable, even smart, for recreational long distance paddling. I used to say imvho these days I give up and say in my arrogant opinion the world has moved on, I don't personally know an instructor who agrees with this. Any instructor who does I would think is suspect.

It's about bio-mechanics. The most efficient method of bio-mechanics for paddling is a high paddling style with torso rotation. Doesn't have to be an Olympic racing style but hands coming across at, say, chin level. And your instructor will take you through this. To paddle this way you want a short shaft. Shorter than you think (my racing paddle is 210cm). And because the style is efficient and protective you can quite comfortably get away with a semi-aggressive blade. Squarish in shape and non symmetrical to pick up the strength part of the stroke.

But if the bio-mechanics to your stroke is poor (surely this poor can only happen without training) then a horizontal sweeping low angle shit-house efficiency stroke... (I did admit to arrogant opinion here) then we can use a blade that will reduce the pressure and reduce likelihood of injury. Personally I think injuries are coming anyway but it will be later and less with this paddle.

The blade you would design for this is long, symmetrical. Shaft tends to be long because it has to be with a low angle style to be able to get over the edge of a wide fishing yak. There is my problem. Take one of these blades, with a short shaft... that is absolutely fine. Not quick, but fine, no injuries and effective.

Paul, WHY I AM RETICENT. Mate my first yak was a Swing from BBW. The paddle you quote above WAS my first paddle. It was great. But with crap paddling I still managed to injure. Too long that paddle by a bloody long way. It started my quest fro knowledge and to learn about paddling. Thinking about it, through this forum I think you have been with me through basically that whole journey.

My choice then, get an instructor, then everything I have said holds. If you are determined to ignore the excellent training that is available then Paul is completely on the money.

As I said at the start, different context. Paul is totally right. I think (and I think in this case it is a humble opinion) my way is better. But I suspect Paul feels that you wont follow it. Statistically I know he is right.

Prove me wrong. Get an instructor.


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## redgreg (Oct 17, 2012)

As they say[ up the creek with out a paddle].Not good I all ways go over my gear before I load it


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

And the Greenland Stick that I keep talking about, perfect bas a back up, even more superb in reducing injury than a symmetrical long blade. Afterall it's 3 inches wide and the length is pretty much the whole shaft.

Everyone should have one.


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

I have the same fibreglass paddle I got when I first bought my scupper pro about ten years ago, skee paddle.
It has been dropped, used around the rocks, dumped in surf and had as much pressure as I am capable of applying to it.
I've sanded down the rough edges on the blade a couple of times but never considered the possibility of it breaking and it is always leashed.
I have a small single ended paddle that came with the kids inflatable boat, not that strong but would be fine in an emergency.
However, I have never taken it out on the kayak.
I've thought about replacing my paddle but I always get too confused and stick it in the too hard basket.


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## Zed (Sep 18, 2006)

nezevic said:


> I've broken 2 on separate occasions. It sucks when it happens.


So modest.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=45305

I still have the stock paddle I got with my first Cobra Explorer, packed inside my hull. That thing is two aluminum snow shovels pieced together, but it's helped in a jam more than once.


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