# A blog to shake your head or maybe get cranky



## Dodge (Oct 12, 2005)

This is an emotive blog from the Sydney Morning Herald and reckon the article and the replies speak for themselves....similar to many seen before on the same subject :shock:

http://blogs.smh.com.au/environment/arc ... sport.html


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2008)

Oh boy, here we go. It's just sad isn't it.


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## chrissy (Jul 7, 2007)

Already have :twisted:


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## yakfly (Jun 8, 2006)

If we are going to say fish have the capacity to feel pain as we do then is it possible that like us,
are they capable of producing a chemical similar to the endorphins or adrenalin that we can produce
in times of great stress that then can mask pain.


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

good to see such a large collection of people out there who obviously don't stand on bugs or cut their grass (i hear it screams) but do we think they eat cows ? oh that's right it's different because it comes in a packet.

HOLD ME BACKKKKKKKKK


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## theclick (Jun 25, 2007)

The level of naivety in many of those responses is beyond my comprehension. These people don't seem to realise that by buying fish in a can, not only did that fish which was probably dragged around in a net for hours, suffer more than one caught and killed swiftly on a line, but many other fish were caught as bi-catch which were never eaten by humans, and simply turned into cat food or wasted.

I can't believe how removed, blinded and generally senseless some people are. Their thought patterns mustn't even stretch back to their ancestors, who relied solely on killing to survive. It really is amazing, and something that is just beyond comprehension.

If fishing is banned, I'm moving... SIMPLE


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## sbd (Aug 18, 2006)

Yep, that made me cranky. God forbid we as animals should behave like them - we should pull out any of our teeth that may have carnivorous origins. Think I'll go & get me a vat grown tofu surprise & stick it where the sun don't shine. I can't actually be bothered to reply to such drivel though.

Tossers.


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## DGax65 (Jun 7, 2006)

I get so pissed off when I see comments like that. That point of view is beyond ignorance. It is willful denial of a basic fact of life. How can these idiots fail to understand that we are omnivores. We are part of the food chain; always have been and, hopefully, always will be. It doesn't matter if fish feel pain when will kill them - that is what happens when a predator eats it's prey. If anything, we kill our prey in a more humane fashion than they are accustomed to in the wild. I don't know if any of these tree hugging pansies have ever seen one fish eat another. It isn't pretty and it isn't humane. It is, however, very natural. When I catch a yellowtail or a bonito I kill it quickly with a spike to the brain. When one of those cute, cuddly sea lion catches a similar fish it will thrash it about, ripping off chunks of living flesh. I have nothing to feel ashamed of when I fish.

F**k those ignorant twits.

I needed to get that off my chest. I can't stand people who ignore such basic facts of life.

Children raised in urban areas often do not have an opportunity to participate in fishing or hunting, and, as such, they have no understanding of very basic facts of nature. Instead, they are inundated with anthropomorphic imagery and extreme environmentalist teachings that lead them into these idiotic beliefs. The best thing you can do to counteract this behavior is to take a city kid fishing or hunting. The most important thing to teach them is an understanding of humans as a PART of nature. You have to counteract the environmentalist whacko propaganda that humans are somehow separate from the rest of the environment and that our only impact on the environment is a negative one.


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## grinner (May 15, 2008)

interesting topic. i think it is something genetic in humans as hunters and it is more prominent in males. my young fella cried when i told him that we had to put back the first bream he caught.(it was actually just legal but i wanted to teach him about c and r early) . no such problem with my girls. my sons friends also seem to find it very hard to give up a catch.i think you do have to teach respect for fish. i got right up some teenagers who were jigging up little herring and then just smashing them to pieces on the jetty just for sport. i have largely solved the problem of kids wanting to keep all of their catch by always having a camera and photographing every damn fish they catch and then they can load it on their ipod etc and show people whenever they like. nothing used to annoy me as much as going on holidays and rellies catching little bream and whiting and putting them in the fridge til someone chucked em in the bin. i think fish are beautiful creatures and dead ones in eskies leave me cold (like the fish perhaps). now that a digital camera costs less than a tank of fuel i'll definitely be encouraging more c and r . kfc tastes better in my opinion anyways. having said that i feel rec anglers dont do any damage to fish stocks compared to property developers and pros. watching the trawlers in the logan river chugging along chucking their by catch of bream and chopper tailor overboard to swarms of evil sea birds has convinced me of this. 
cheers pete


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## Baldy (Oct 1, 2007)

Wow! the hypocrisy is staggering!!! :shock:

I like how the vego's and vegans seem to think their chosen diet has no impact on wildlife at all....

They only irrigate deserts to grow crops.....I guess the fish didnt need the water....I guess alge blooms have rights as well ;-) 
They only net thousands of tonnes of fish every year to turn into fertilizer so they can grow crops in a desert...
They only kill massive amounts of fish due to farming practices and runoff into our oceans and rivers...

And thats not even touching on the impacts it has on those little fuzzy cute land animals....you know the ones, huge populations of roo's develop due to feeding on pasture...the food runs out and they all starve to death. It seems its fine to interfere with their food supplys but heaven forbid you want to shoot them and make use of them before they die, no they are to be left to a slow death. Of course in their eyes it has nothing to do with them or the massive farms that are needed to feed us all.

Its all just crazy, even if we all turned vegan tommorow...the amount of destruction and things that would die because of it would far outweigh whats killed for food now. Even at the most basic level....you need to eat more "greens" to get the same amount of nutrients/energy[Like I said, very basic rule of thumb]

The way I see it a balanced diet is the only sustainable one and what better example than a well managed rec fishery[I might add I personally think they still have work to do on the "well managed" part] BUT when compared to commercial fishing practices its a world apart.

They are on such shaky ground, try having a conversation with a diehard vego about the rights of native people to hunt for food, it seems they are one and the same....you know, native people are part of the enviroment just like the rest of the food chain. Somehow because we have supermarkets we are suddenly a different species.

The fact that something had to die to produce the meal of fruit and veg is completely ignored.

Peace and mung beans :twisted: :twisted: :lol:

Cheers
Baldy


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## radar (Nov 4, 2007)

After writing a number of responces to that, i realised it's just not worth a comment! Thats just what they want. 8)


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## mcbigg (Jul 14, 2007)

Unfortunately the world is full of the truly ignorant and the remarkably stupid.

Like this woman:


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## L3GACY (Sep 2, 2007)

Mcbigg: OH... MY... GOD.... And I thought America had some idiots BEFORE I saw that vid...


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## theclick (Jun 25, 2007)

mcbigg said:


> Unfortunately the world is full of the truly ignorant and the remarkably stupid.
> 
> Like this woman:


You made my day. Thank you


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## Revo (Aug 3, 2008)

As one blogger commented on Steve Jacobs posting of that story:

"Framed by the emotive title and a photo of a child with a dead flathead captioned "too young to kill?" the blog piece sets out to present a highly emotional construct: killing for fun. In fact, by conflating killing fish with puppies and serial killers, it goes much further."

This is poor journalism! :twisted: Which is why it's posted on a blog and not in a reputable publication! In all such efforts to get people tied up in emotional knots, we should all respond calmly with reason (ie scientifically). 8)


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

just a note in defence of the vegetarians.....

I eat fish so i'm not one but i think this is more about stupidity than diet.
I eat fish, i'm happy to kill fish to eat.
I don't feel that comfortable cutting a cows throat so i don't eat meat. I used to but that was when i went hunting and was comfortable with killing other animals.

I don't really care whether people eat meat or not, as long as they face up to what they are doing.
Nothing p#ss's me off more than people that say " i can't eat that it looks too much like an animal" or i can't look at it , it's got eyes etc etc.
Some people like to think meat and fish are grown in a packet, they're the ones i'm talking about.

people just need to get real and take responsibility for what they do.

oh my god, there's a rainbow in my kitchen ...........


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## mcbigg (Jul 14, 2007)

I love Dennis Leary's perspective on eating meat:

WARNING, EXPLICIT LANGUAGE


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## GregL (Jul 27, 2008)

Guys, this stuff comes up all the time, and will always come up. I'm a greenie, I'm proud to donate to GreenPeace, I hate seeing whats happening to our enviroment and I do what I can to make a difference.
And I also love catching a fish, smacking it on the head and eating it...
I don't do it to every fish I catch - probably 1 in 20 doesn't make it back to the water (hey, and thats not just cos of size limits! ;-) )
Anyway, the way I see it, these idiots who bang on about 'banning fishing' should be allowed to have their say, because at the end of the day the people who will always be in charge never take any notice of hippies, regardless of what issue they are trying to high light, and they never will. I'm not trying to sound defeatist, just a realist.
Money talks, and fishing makes money. 
In the US, the total economic output or rec fishing is over $125 billion annually.
Europe has over 25 million anglers spending an estimated 25 billion euros' each year.

Fishing will never be banned, there's too much money being made so don't waste time getting wound up by these sorts of blogs.
I predict Marine parks will affect most of us at some time, which does suck, but at the same time something needs to be done to fix the mess the pro's have left behind.

If the buggers really get your goat, just remind them that jesus was a fisherman......usually shuts 'em up (for as long as it takes for them to get out of your earshot)
Cheers
Smeg eace:


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2008)

> If the buggers really get your goat, just remind them that jesus was a fisherman


Not only that, but on more than one occasion (according to the bible anyway) he fed over a 1000 people with a loaf of bread and a fish or two. Cruel, cruel man that he was!


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## zipper (Feb 27, 2008)

> "I fished as a kid. I was horrified when I pulled up a fish and watched it gasp to death on the bottom of our boat with its tongue out as it came from very deep..."
> 
> I'm afraid your memory is at fault: fish don't have tongues.


bahahahahah classic.
this stuff is like parents groups. they just piss me off sometimes
say if a new game comes out and its "too violent" so parent groups go out to ban the game.
i have a solution for you DONT LET YOUR KIDS HAVE THE GAME. why do you have to spoil everyone elses gory violent fun? if i want to sit on my couch and cut someone up with a samuri sword...just let me. please.
its just like these people who campaign agains fishing. if you dont like it, dont do it. we have been fishing since creation so why stop it now. people like to fish and eat fish. also catching your own fish is alot more sustainable then buying your fish from the markets, as you can be selective of what you want and not just trawl up the sea floor.

cheers


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## mcbigg (Jul 14, 2007)

zipper said:


> I'm afraid your memory is at fault: fish don't have tongues.


Uh, yeah, some do:


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## L3GACY (Sep 2, 2007)

Zipper, pay more attention in biology.

And damn you mcbigg you got in first.


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## Wattie (Apr 30, 2007)

That would have to be one of the best videos that I have seen for a while.....my stomach was sore from the previous posts before I saw the video...well done :lol sorry, the one about the rainbow


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## zipper (Feb 27, 2008)

i know fish have toungs. i was laughing because the guy tried to correct him but was wrong. shows the quality in these things
but i guess i can see how you took that the wrong way


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## L3GACY (Sep 2, 2007)

zipper said:


> i know fish have toungs. i was laughing because the guy tried to correct him but was wrong. shows the quality in these things
> but i guess i can see how you took that the wrong way


Our bad then. Quote functions are good though...


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## zipper (Feb 27, 2008)

lol i know but i have no clue how to do them. i know how to quote stuff off other peoples posts but i got no clue how to add text from other websites into quote marks. sorry for this little off topic bit


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## onemorecast (Apr 17, 2006)

*"I was astonished at how they remembered me. They would make eye contact with me and put their heads out of the water and open and close them "Feed us!" was the message. Fish are far more intelligent and aware than people believe" * :lol: :lol: :lol:

In this case I would have to agree that fish are at least as intellegent as the person who wrote this.


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

onemorecast said:


> *"I was astonished at how they remembered me. They would make eye contact with me and put their heads out of the water and open and close them "Feed us!" was the message. Fish are far more intelligent and aware than people believe" * :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> In this case I would have to agree that fish are at least as intellegent as the person who wrote this.


i think you may have stumbled across a US presidential candidate :lol:


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## Baldy (Oct 1, 2007)

http://www.smh.com.au/news/tv--radio/ni ... 60040.html

Hmmm, are we talking about the same little turnip here?

Man, I cant stand that tosser. If it is him it explains the tone of that blog.

That rainbow vid is a bit scary!.....scary that woman probably drives a car and is responsible for children!!

While I agree with most of what you say Greg I wouldnt say the "greenies" have no power or that no one listens to them. Might have been the case in the past I'll give you that but they are much more savvy these days. Think Eco tours, whale watching, diving ect ect... All pretend to have the environment bests interests at heart but only if theres a profit in it from what Ive seen.
They dont just go and chain themselves to the nearest tree or dozer so much anymore, they form lobby groups and spend thier time sucking up to those with power and appealing any bit of development with even a hint of the limelight surrounding it.
Some of them are very good at it, that Byron park is a good example. The fact is 20+ years ago or even less...there was no money in "greenies" ....thats not the case now, the "eco tourist" industry is massive....its seen as clean and green[bullshit] So all your hession wearing mung bean munchers can jump on the "eco tourist" bandwagon and viola ! instant financial giant is there ready to back them up.

Its a win win situation for the policy makers, they arnt seen as pandering to a bunch of radical hippies...no...they are promoting and encouraging that "clean and green" eco tourism. I dont think they have much chance of banning fishing outright. But I do think they can have so much water locked up in easy, safely reached areas that it will be near on impossible for your average joe. It will be just offshore commercial fishing....out of sight...out of mind.

I'll go to jail before I stop fishing, then when I get out I'll go fishing to celebrate :lol:

Bit glass is half full of me I know, its just the way I see things going eventually[Not without a fight I might add]

Cheers
Baldy


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

Nice flatty kid, a photo like that reminds me of the wonderful times I had fishing when I was a boy and since fishing with my own children. 

Honestly I think its best to ignore an article such as that. Every time someone hits on the link it registers and will only encourage more such articles.


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## riv (Aug 13, 2008)

Typical they don't eat meat so we shouldn't either, our problem is we are still tarnished with the old school days when you would walk along the bank and see people leaving fish out to die or treating carp in a horrific way just because their a pest.

The mass fishing population has changed a lot and things like brain spiking fish for a more instant kill to reduce suffering and better equipment like enviro nets and lip grippers to ensure the protected and under size fish are released in best possible condition are more common place now.

Also we are more edumakated now and understand that bagging out on each trip will not help us in the future, im doing my bit by casting bucket loads of bait out each trip and returning empty handed. ;-)


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## rawprawn (Aug 31, 2005)

riv said:


> Typical they don't eat meat so we shouldn't either, our problem is we are still tarnished with the old school days when you would walk along the bank and see people leaving fish out to die or treating carp in a horrific way just because their a pest.
> 
> The mass fishing population has changed a lot and things like brain spiking fish for a more instant kill to reduce suffering and better equipment like enviro nets and lip grippers to ensure the protected and under size fish are released in best possible condition are more common place now.
> 
> Also we are more edumakated now and understand that bagging out on each trip will not help us in the future, im doing my bit by casting bucket loads of bait out each trip and returning empty handed. ;-)


No matter what new or more humane methods we use it will never be enough for some. All you do is move the bar lower as cruelty is all relative. Today's Environ Net is tomorrow's torture device. Lip grippers hurt lips (I've see that said on this site) etc etc.

We just need to stick to being sensible about it. Kill only what you eat and do it as quickly a possible. If you catch only what you intend to eat then it's a much harder argument for them to win.

We are animals. Primates who hunt and kill for food. I am an animal (Elephant Man has a lot to answer for). I am a meat eater and I kill to eat. I enjoy the hunt and I enjoy the food I get from it.


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## Dodge (Oct 12, 2005)

rawprawn said:


> If you catch only what you intend to eat then it's a much harder argument for them to win.
> 
> I am a meat eater and I kill to eat. I enjoy the hunt and I enjoy the food I get from it.


Greg right on the money here i reckon mate


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## sbd (Aug 18, 2006)

Despite misgivings that it'll only encourage them, I posted a reply anyway.


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## riv (Aug 13, 2008)

sbd said:


> Despite misgivings that it'll only encourage them, I posted a reply anyway.


I resisted the urge to respond to the Blog you will never win and they will just twist your words against you and then most of them will go down the chippy and get a piece of flake and not even consider were it came from


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## craig51063 (May 30, 2008)

This is the reason i do noy buy papers, watch current affair shows, or watch the news .i know for a fact [ past expirience -land slide thredbo- missing snow borders ect ] that these media groups LIE - EXAGERATE- BEND THE TRUTH TO SUIT THEMSELVES .Being a buissness the only thing they are interested in is making money .the way they make money is to sell papers or to have high rateings .to do this they WILL sensationalise -lie .

Therfore i do not entertain these self ritious pig headed media groups .

And while im at it thank god that John Laws retired . :lol:

And as ive said earlier i fear for our sport .

cheers 
craig


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## Greywolf (Jun 24, 2008)

Nice flattie shame about the context


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## craig51063 (May 30, 2008)

just another thought dont they say that if it swims in the sea it will get eaten ?????? so whats the diference .

bloody idiots

craig


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

tempted to post up.

"nice fish, well done, were did you catch it?"
followed by a recipe for flathead
:lol:


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## Guest (Sep 24, 2008)

> Honestly I think its best to ignore an article such as that. Every time someone hits on the link it registers and will only encourage more such articles.


Good point


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## Slide (Oct 25, 2007)

There is no chance fishing will ever be banned, there are simply too many people who fish. However, it wouldn't surprise me if certain aspects of it were challenged. I have no doubt some group will have a crack at live baiting in the future. It will be interesting to see if these challenges ever go anywhere. I don't mind soaking a herring here and there. I wonder if this is more cruel than soaking a dead pilchard that was possibly not treated all that well when it was caught.


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

i'll second that, i did mention something similar earlier in the thread.
Well maybe not that similar but you know what i mean.


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## Wattie (Apr 30, 2007)

Baldy I agree with you.

I watch TV and see these tree huggers and used to say to myself. What a bunch of dick heads. We are using our taxes for these wankers to hang out of trees and wear clown suits.

But if we never had these wankers where would we be.

We would be in a world where fishing stocks would be lower than they currently are. Less whales, less trees, less &#8230;.well a lot of stuff.

In the past few years I take my hat of to SOME of these people.

The worlds is full of greedy people who all want the same thing.

One thing that Green peace does is to try and look after nature.


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## Baldy (Oct 1, 2007)

Not having a go at the reasonable type people caught2, I dunno what else to call them, you know the peta types and the born again vego's. Like the guy who said he had spearfished for 17years or something but now he has suddenly seen the light. When I say greenie im talking about people like this guy who started throwing rocks at our boat one day when we were sitting just offshore and some dolphins came up to the boat and hung around, 3 kids onboard and hes throwing golfball sizes rocks as hard as he could......you know, to save the poor dolphins...

While I agree that everyone should have the guts to at least kill whatever they want to eat, most of the time thats just not possible and in most cases illegal for your average joe.

Sometimes its just the way things are put across, like eating "dead" animals....bit of a loaded statement because theres only 1 other practical choice and thats eating them alive, which of course plenty of animals do.[the choice not to eat them is only a moral one]

It doesnt help when you have hardcore vego's that attack people who are just trying to do what they think is right[you eating fish for example]

The whole thing is a bit one sided, if I were to say not eating meat is wrong I'd be shouted down and considered weird but when someone says eating meat is wrong its just them voicing their opinion and no one but ignorant ******** have a problem with it.

Much like you I suspect I just want to be able to make the choice and not be made feel guilty for it. When you have people that say things like Im a vegan and if you derive any fun from catching a fish then you would have the same fun kicking kittens and burning puppys. They ruin it for the genuine vegans just like the meatheads that abuse the rules and kill anything they can catch ruin it for the rest of us.

Again, sorry if I offended you but your obviously not the type im talking about....I just dont know a word to call them that wont need to be moderated so I was slack and just used greenie, I shouldnt because I dont like being typecast either and I forgot reasonable people call themselves greenies as well.

If caring for what happens to the place, picking up other peoples rubbish and reporting the serious stuff to the right people makes you a greenie then I guess I am one  :lol:

Cheers
Baldy


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## AndyC (Feb 29, 2008)

I promised myself that I wouldn't respond to this thread at all, lest I be accused of 'getting on my holier than thou pedestal' or something. Holding an opinion that doesn't agree with the current trend can be dangerous!

Just wanted to say, I''m not sure just what good it does to raise threads of this kind. Seems like it just gets folks' backs up.

I did appreciate reading the posts by Keza, GregL and Caught2.

I object to the stereotyping of 'Greenies'. Frankly, I'd rather live in a world filled with greenies, than one populated only by the likes of Gunns Timber executives. Our continued willingness to rape, plunder and pollute our planet, all in the name of the almighty dollar makes me puke. Most 'Greenies' that I have met are moderate, thoughtful and educated people who simply have a balanced vision for our planet, that doesn't involve turning every last acre into some kind of unnatural intensive farming operation. So if I have to identify with one side or the other of the environmental argument, colour me Green please. My son once remarked that it will be a real comfort, as we watch our planet die, to know that at least the economy is healthy. I was proud to know that I've at least taught my kids to think for themselves and to not give a toss about being 'in the crowd'.

Personally, I think these anti-fishing, PETA types are misguided in the extreme. But anyone who imagines that our sport is impregnable to attack simply because it generates big money, ought to take a hard look at the tobacco industry. That was about as big dollar as you can get and who would have thought twenty years ago, that smokers and smoking would be regarded as they are today? And what changed? Smoking was simply 'discovered' as a cause for the Crusader Rabbits out there. They organized and lobbied and 'Voila' ........ "Don't you come near me with that stinking thing, you dirty leper!"

I reckon that now they've almost killed smoking, there must be a whole warren of Crusader Rabbits out there, looking for another flag to rally under; another good fight to fight; another reason for being. Maybe they will come after angling next? And why wouldn't they. We are a dead easy target. We can't even agree amongst ourselves about the 'morality' of our sport and how we practice it.

What I do sincerely believe ... and I know I will probably annoy a lot of folks for saying this AGAIN ...... is that when the do-gooders come after us, it isn't killing our fish for food that will prove our weakness. I reckon it will be Catch and Release fishing. So while we are all so ready to stereotype and label people for what they believe (e.g. 'Greenies'), we better get ready for the day when WE are identified with a label of our own. It'll be something like 'Harm For Fun Fishers'. Has a nice ring to it, its catchy, and the Crusaders will love it.

Well, I guess I said too much now. Reckon I will head off to bed. Want to be up early tomorrow so's I can go 'rip some lips'. I'll just nip out for my evening gasper first. I'm not allowed to smoke in the house!

Cheers all,

AndyC


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## hairymick (Oct 18, 2005)

Heya Richo, Good link mate.

Ya got the heart racing and the BP right up there.

Now I'm all steamed up and not a peta type in sight to smack in the eye.

Stuff it, I'll go fishin instead - murder a few fish, stick a big mean hooky thingy in the delicate little lips, wind the handle on that egg beater looking thingy and skull drag em from the comfort of their living room and away from their family , grasp em firmly in me grubbly little mitt till their tongue pokes out and get my piccie taken with a big cheesy grin on me dial.

What really frightens me is that people like these are finding each other - and breeding. If I could be bothered, I would post on that putrid blog, but what would be the point? If I had the technical expertise, I would post some piccies there too. Something like this perhaps?










Love & kisses,

Mick.

PS,

The aliens aren't going to get me.


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## sbd (Aug 18, 2006)

AndyC said:


> Most 'Greenies' that I have met are moderate, thoughtful and educated people who simply have a balanced vision for our planet, that doesn't involve turning every last acre into some kind of unnatural intensive farming operation.


Doubtless. When I refer to "Greenies", I'm not referring to these people, who have a practical, sensible view of the world & its problems. In the context of this thread, Greenie to me means the one eyed extremist that writes garbage like the blog we're all referring to.

People have a similar knee jerk response to Moslems - there are shades of Islam from moderate to suicide bomber, & it's unfortunate for the moderates that the bombers get all the press. I certainly don't object to vegetarians (except Keza on principle), and was a true vegetarian for 6 years (no fish either), but I do have a serious problem with holier than thou wankers with tiny minded views.


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

Hi sbd (dave),
i thought i would pm you this as i don't think everyone needs to know.
Look basically i think you are a lovely guy and yes you are very cute and if i was that way inclined i would jump at your offer.
Apart from anything else, i have a wife and kids and i think getting involved with you would be a recipe for disaster.

I hope you can see beyond your attraction for me and we can still be friends but if you feel you need a cooling off period i will understand.

Your friend forever
Keza
:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## sbd (Aug 18, 2006)

keza said:


> Look basically i think you are a lovely guy and yes you are very cute and if i was that way inclined i would jump at your offer.


When I see you walking down the street I see red, I see red, I see red.

You kiwi heartbreaker you - if you like JT more, why can't you just be upfront about it. Birds of a feather I guess. Whatever you say, I still want your Saltiga.


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

sbd said:


> keza said:
> 
> 
> > . Whatever you say, I still want your Saltiga.


you can't handle the saltiga !


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## JT (May 25, 2006)

sbd said:


> keza said:
> 
> 
> > Look basically i think you are a lovely guy and yes you are very cute and if i was that way inclined i would jump at your offer.
> ...


Hey how did my name get dragged into this?! :shock:

The 2 of you don't surprise me...the way you were eyeing each other up on that Kingy jigging trip was downright scandelous :?

JT


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

sounds like you 2 may have a bit of history, i think it's time for me to bower out.
i think i'll give Ken a call.


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## MrFaulty (May 15, 2008)

Perhaps we should differentiate, greenies are those with a one sided view, often (not always) hypocritical, whilst conservationalists are the ones who want to preserve but realise that there is actually a need to eat, and even have fun. I bumped into a buch of SCUBA divers whilst on honeymoon in Vanuatu, one night they sat down to a big feed of fish, the next they abslutely blasted me for my cruelty when I dared to go fishing with a few "natives". The fact that the SCUBA divers fish meal was probably caught in a trawler (average bycatch of 20:1) while myself and half a dozen nivanuatuans took one speargun, swam into about 50 foot of water, and shot 3 fish between us (we shared the gun) which I am guessing were all eaten, was lost on these idiots. I didn't bother pointing out the irony that all the SCUBA divers equipment was created using machinery which produced poisons, while the "natives all had a mask and snorkel, I think one actually had a set of flippers while the rest used their thongs on their hands to swim down. Greenies and idiots!!

Now I will climb down calmly off my soap box - thankyou !


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## scleburne (Aug 10, 2008)

Catching it for fun is fine
Giving it a kiss before letting it go is fine also.
Killing it to feed your family (or legally bound ie Carp) is fine (as long as rules are enforced to promote sustainable fishing)

Killing should not be the fun part.


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## ausbass (Feb 15, 2007)

OMFG! What sad junior journalist wrote this bullshit artcle to get ahead? I only read the caption and already know that this artcle is about greenies veiws with weak arguments and 'proof' to back it up.


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## mcbigg (Jul 14, 2007)

scleburne said:


> Killing should not be the fun part.


No you go to schools to have fun doing that....

Sorry, too soon?


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## GregL (Jul 27, 2008)

....oooo, you evil bastard! :twisted: ....
just got it... ;-)

One final word for the anti-fishing crew,

If God hadn't wanted us to kill animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat....


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## Guest (Sep 28, 2008)

> My son once remarked that it will be a real comfort, as we watch our planet die, to know that at least the economy is healthy.


I completely agree with the sentiment, but as for healthy economy, I don't think so. The US gov Wall st bail out should serve as a telling portent of what's to come. Australia is part of the global economy and there's a really good chance that USA will drag down capitalism with it's unavoidable economic decline. Already we are seeing signs of socialism taking over (not necessarily a bad thing - socialism works in Star Trek). The whole scenario can be summed up as:
Privatising profits, socialising losses. Who wins? Banking elite. Who loses? Taxpayers.

The history books of the future will look back at this era of humanity as a shining example of what not to do. All of this raping of the environment for the sake of the dollar, which is dying a slow but certain death anyway. The upside to all of this is the truism that 'its got to get worse before it gets better'. It'll take an almighty cataclysmic event for humanity to collectively wake the hell up and I don't think that time is terribly far away (most of us will likely witness it in our lifetime). Until then we'll just have to sit back, shut up and watch the environment degrade further, right along with the not-so mighty dollar.

"Put $700 billion in the bag and no one gets hurt."


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## breamingfromabass (Aug 22, 2007)

I am going to throw my quick comment on this one....

People have been throwing around the word 'greenie' on here but with out much or any definition. The problem with this term, as with a lot of prejudice, is that the word is a relative term in my mind.

You can be a greenie without hugging trees and lying in the way of tractors, all it takes is for you to be 'conscience' of the environment and conduct yourself in such a way so as to minimalise your effect on the environment where ever possible - this could be classed as a greenie. Or you can take an extreme stance and really want to change things buy lobbying against forest demolition for example, this would definitely be classed as 'greenie' action.

I think that someone who carries out his life just trying to do the right thing buy reducing plastic consumption, recycling where possible, not killing fish or any animals for no reason and all these common sense things is a greenie, and I guess MOST of the people on this site by this definition would be classed as greenies.But it is the connotations that this world holds that tends to offend environmentally conscience people. In reality I would be suprised if EVERY member on this site was to some extent a GREENIE! As you all obviously enjoy our great outdoors life or you wouldn't be on this site in the first place.

My thoughts, as Craig 'bellyache' says... 'take it as you will'.

Thanks,
Luke.


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## hairymick (Oct 18, 2005)

Mate,

i don't think any of the comments here are targeted at all greenies. I think, to varying degrees, pretty much all kayak anglers are greenies in their own right.

What my initial rant here was on about was specifically the "peta" types. These are zealots by any stretch of the imagination and they are trying to impose their values and beliefs on the rest of society. In this, they are no better than the political or religeous zealots we are presently at war with.

I make no apology for this and be very clear where I stand. The day that one of these parasites accosts me, going about my leasure of catching fish - either for fun or for food and minding my own business and tries to impose his or her will on me will be the day that particular maggot regrets for the rest of its life.


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## hairymick (Oct 18, 2005)

This is about the intellect of these peta sub-humans I am talking about.



> WATERBURY, Vt. - Mooove over, Holsteins. PETA wants world-famous Ben & Jerry's Homemade Ice Cream to tap nursing moms, rather than cows, for the milk used in its ice cream. People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals is asking the ice cream maker to begin using breast milk in its products instead of cow's milk, saying it would reduce the suffering of cows and calves and give ice cream lovers a healthier product. The idea got a cool reception Thursday from Ben & Jerry's officials, the company's customers and even La Leche League International, the world's oldest breast-feeding support organization, which promotes the practice - for babies, anyway


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## Guest (Sep 28, 2008)

> i don't think any of the comments here are targeted at all greenies.


Perhaps so Mick, but I think the problem here is one of terminology and generalisation. I never call extremist vegan tree huggers 'greenies' because I consider myself a conservationist of sorts, so to me the term is more one of endearment. That said, it is used as a massive generalisation and to my way of thinking that's a little dangerous. In any battle it always pays to know your enemy and most anglers don't actually know who they are up against, which is partly why the term 'greeny' is bandied about as a badge of dishonour.

There's a huge difference between conservationists and extreme new age vegan animal liberationists. Without the former, I'd shudder to think about where this world would be now. Without the latter, well... it'd be boring


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## breamingfromabass (Aug 22, 2007)

Mick,

Mate.. Come on.

I think you have misunderstood both the content of my dialouge and the intent. At no point did I quote others posts and seek to defame the author (yours included) because I have no objections to any of what is written - I had and still haven't acutally even read your post to be honest because the content is not the issue I am raising, more so the phrasing.

In addition mine was not a reflection on the original blog or it's author. I was just proposing a different thought process in response to how we hear, interpret and view the key term here - ' GREENIE'.

As I alluded to, and perhaps in this audience to sublty (which is my fault entirely), it is the connotational ramifications of the term greenie that through misconception is hurting the chances for sensible advances, that I beleive an overwhelming majority of people on here would be in agreeance with, to be made in this ongoing discussion.

Yakass has grasped the concept I was putting forward in it's totality so all you need do is review that, and I reiterate, we are all on the same page on this one. Illustrated by opinions put forward by AndyC, Baldy and MrFaulty on the previous page, there are no greatly differentiating views here.

Luke.


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## hairymick (Oct 18, 2005)

G'day Luke,



> At no point did I quote others posts and seek to defame the author (yours included)


Neither have I mate. In fact this post I am doing now is the first time i have quoted another member in this thread.



> I had and still haven't acutally even read your post to be honest because the content is not the issue I am raising, more so the phrasing


Then I would respectfully suggest that you actually do read the post before replying to it.



> As I alluded to, and perhaps in this audience to sublty (which is my fault entirely), it is the connotational ramifications of the term greenie that through misconception is hurting the chances for sensible advances, that I beleive an overwhelming majority of people on here would be in agreeance with, to be made in this ongoing discussion.


I am not a simpleton mate and I would suggest neither are the vast majority of members here. At no stage, have I attacked you, or any other member who has posted here. I speak in small words by choice,in part, out of courtesy to some members who may not have had the benefiet of higher levels of education, but also, because that is how I normally speak. Be sure the subtleties of your little rant were not lost on me.

Feel the love? 

respectfully,

Mick


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## AndyC (Feb 29, 2008)

Hello Kraley,

I couldn't find 'Perjorative' in my dictionary. Did you perhaps mean pejorative?

Do you consider that the environment has no right to exist 'outside the realm of human use'?

Personally, I found your attitude to the use of the term 'Greenie' had, for me, something of a purgative effect!

In other words: It gave me the sh**s

Cheers,

AndyC


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

AndyC said:


> I couldn't find 'Perjorative' in my dictionary. Did you perhaps mean pejorative?


It's just his accent coming across mate. 

For better or worse, the term 'greenie', has been associated too long in the minds of many, with environmental extremists. I wish there was another term for people who are very environmentally conscious / aware, and practice appropriate conservation on a daily basis, as Mick would certainly qualify - you'd only have to scan the forum for some of his enthusiastic opposition to potentially environmentally damaging damming projects, or perhaps read of his utter distate when he finds either rubbish polluting the local system, or fisherman who are not treating resources appropriately, to know that by your definition, he's a true greenie... (though he might prefer not to be known by that label as such, due to the likely negative connotations). I can provide search terms/links if people want them; I'm sure Mick won't mind.

I'm pretty sure that's all Ken was saying mate - he wasn't making a judgement either way, just indicating that the term, for many people, has an unfortunate negative connotation.

Anyway, Ken and Mick are more than capable of responding themselves, but they don't generally like blowing their own trumpet, so I figured I'd provide a bit of a background.

Interesting thread. (Except for SBD and Keza of course. I'm just glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read your posts.. I'd need another keyboard).

Red.


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## DGax65 (Jun 7, 2006)

redphoenix said:


> AndyC said:
> 
> 
> > I couldn't find 'Perjorative' in my dictionary. Did you perhaps mean pejorative?
> ...


Yep. It's an American thing. I can spell it correctly, but it comes out PERJORATIVE when spoken. Same thing with nuclear-pronounced NUCULAR. W and I went to the same school :lol:


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## hairymick (Oct 18, 2005)

Heya Red - thanks mate.  appreciate it.

I guess I am a greenie of sorts, I certainly care about the environment and what is left of our sacred river systems. Likewise, sutainable fishing and humane treatment of fish caught.

What gets my back up are the peta types. I respect their right to their opinions and to voice them. What I hate is the subversive way they go about their stuff, trying to impose their hysterical (IMHO) values on the rest of us. My Irish really starts to rise when I see them indoctinating gullable and impressionable youth into their evil fold.

In reality, they are nothing more than another cult - though with no false claim to some obscure relegious belief, just an emotional claim to be supporting the ethical treatment of animals. On the face of it, a worthy ideal but understand this,
the masterminds behind this organization are evil basterds. Zeolots maybe, shrewd business people, certainly and they are exploiting the gullable and naive to their own ends and making a lot of money in the process. Some of the posts here and on that putrid blogg indicate to me they are succeeding very well indeed.

No matter what our individual ancestry is, we are all descended from tribes of hunter - gatherers. We evolved into what and who we are through learning to become the most effecient of all in this field. This, many believe, was in no small part, due to our ability as a species, to hunt, prepare and cook meat and to pass on the information to our young.

Some people choose to be vegetariens as is their right. I wouldn't dream of trying to force a vego to eat meat. Likewise, My family and I are all meat eaters - big meat eaters - any meat will do. All I ask is that these peta types, likewise respect my right to humanely hunt and to fish to supply some of that meat. I also fish for fun, this means I catch and release. I make no apology for this in that once I have caught sufficient to feed my family, the rest go back into the water relatively unharmed. I call this sustainable fishing. Again, I make no apology for this.

I stand by one of my original rants here where I said that the day that some peta maggot accosts me while I am going about my business of fishing will be the day that that maggot regrets for the rest of its life.


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## hairymick (Oct 18, 2005)

Even more bizaar than Peta.



> Switzerland's Green Power Revolution: Ethicists Ponder Plants' Rights
> Who Is to Say Flora Don't Have Feelings? Figuring Out What Wheat Would Want
> By GAUTAM NAIK
> ZURICH -- For years, Swiss scientists have blithely created genetically modified rice, corn and apples. But did they ever stop to consider just how humiliating such experiments may be to plants?
> ...


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## breamingfromabass (Aug 22, 2007)

Sorry for the delay, I have been OS on business so AKFF got no attention.

Well seems hardly necessary for me to add anything now, you seem to have said it all yourself Mick.....



hairymick said:


> I guess I am a greenie of sorts, I certainly care about the environment and what is left of our sacred river systems. Likewise, sutainable fishing and humane treatment of fish caught.


WOW doesn't that sound familiar, seems to be exactly what I was saying. So now you are disagreeing even with your own views - Hilarious.

Maybe next time less emotion and more forethought hey, probably will do the trick.

Luke.


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## hairymick (Oct 18, 2005)

Whatever Luke,

Have you actually read past the first two sentences of any of my posts yet? Perhaps I should type more slowly?


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## Barrabundy (Sep 29, 2008)

Hmmm, some of you guys may need to go out for a good paddle. Do you good, vent some of that emotion/anger whatever at the water....it definitely doesn't feel pain.


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## AJD (Jul 10, 2007)

I liked the idea that killing a puppy is the road to becoming a serial killer? and then trying to link this to fishing! :lol: :lol: 
Sorry can't shake my head or get cranky at this one Dodge. Will only do that when the argument has some logic around it.

Will say though I am apalled at those that don't quickly dispatch their fish for the table. Those that leave fish struggling on jetties/beach for all to see don;t do the sport/past time any favours and play into the hands of this sensationalist crap.


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Suspect we've gone about as far as we can with this thread.

Red.


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