# Have to go 250lb or how do I stop them



## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

Got only one solid hook up today, 7 O circle hook on a nice size yakka about 8 inches long, downrigged, 100lb penn 10x leader and 40lb mono streched through a Penn GTO 230 overhead and 15-25kg rod. got him within site of the yak, estimated about 1 metre long, then he scorched and I mean scorched straight down, so I tried to increase the drag as fast as possible untill I could barely hold the rod and was done seconds later, only 20m deep, busted main. Im going 80lb main and 250 leader to try to stop them as Im getting frustrated as I havent caught a fish on my new reel and have been busted up the last 15 times straight. Im exhausted now from paddling 25km against 4knot current but Ill post a photo of whats left of 100lb when my energy comes back. In the mean time what can I do to land a fish. :?


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## ausbass (Feb 15, 2007)

what species of fish?


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## L3GACY (Sep 2, 2007)

I'm not sure if going stronger is such a good idea. I would try upgrading your drag first maybe? I think if you go too strong and your drag locks up or isnt set properly you'll be goin in the drink . Note i have never fished with a downrigger and never faught anything as strong as what you are on a yak so keep that in mind :wink:.


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## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

Sorry a bit tired, Kingfish.New reel, drag is smooth, just cant apply enough pressure to stop being reefed without line failure.


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## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

Theres a good bit of 100 and whats left after.


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## ausbass (Feb 15, 2007)

maybe try to lasso the fish?


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

One counterintuitive way to stop a scorching king run is to freespool. Fish may stop resisting when it feels no weight. Gives you a second chance to work it slowly back and may just make the difference. NB I've not landed a legal king


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## bazzoo (Oct 17, 2006)

Looks like its gotta be 4" manilla hemp rope tied to a bollard on the Queen Mary Breambo :lol: :lol:


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

Another thing that maybe of interest and that I've just read on another site. Apparently twisted braid will break well below the rated amount. This is particularly significant if you tie a bimini twist, which will always introduce twist to the line. Experiments comparing the breaking strain of the line after tieing both a plait and a bimini showed the line to be much weaker after tieing the bimini. Note that line didn't always break at the knot.

This may explain why I've been having so much trouble with a batch of braid (not nitlon as I'd previously alleged) as I have gotten that line severely twisted on a couple of occasions


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## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

Dont worry Ive tried everything and today it was a fairly light setting that got the kingy under the yak, when he saw the yak, different story. The ballistic missile may respond to freespool but youd wanna have a thumb on the spool to prevent a massive overun. I reckon he went 20m in three or four second, or about 6m a second with as much drag as I was afraid and theres a lot of structure. Ill give it a go next time. Any other suggestions.


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## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

Im using 40lb mono Daiwa, to a swivel, knots are game fishing knot a mate showed me 99%, great knot, 4 twist up and three back down, through the opening next to hook eye, does any one else use this knot ? All new components so its not a twisting weakness, like braid, very interesting point Dave, the knots are not the weakness :?


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## L3GACY (Sep 2, 2007)

Gatesy said:


> Breambo said:
> 
> 
> > Any other suggestions.
> ...


ANFO depth charges, time for a new DIY article .


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## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

Gatesy said:


> Breambo said:
> 
> 
> > Any other suggestions.
> ...


Ive been unfortunate enough to have seen a bit bomb fishing in Indo before they started cracking down ( only about 10 years ago). The best part and it happened a lot was when they got the bomb wrong and blew them selves up :lol:

I dont think Id get away with it, but youd need a big one :lol:

Back to these fish how do I stop em.


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

Point the rod tip to the bow and get towed until they wear out a bit more. That way you take the pressure off your gear.
I think your trying to boat your fish too quickly......but hey what do I know. :? ....ask couta he manages to land some big fish.


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## Astro (Nov 27, 2006)

breambo.....a mate in port douglas had the sort of outfit you now need....

short rod solid.......near to no flex

one overhead reel of around abu 7000 size total drag lock up....no adjustment at all

fished 80lb mono with 200lb leader.....

but he did fish 24' centre consul and not a yak....thats sort of outfit will tip you over and spill ya out......if you not careful

good luck with it....saw a pic of a 20 kg kingy today in an old fishing mag....


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## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

Gatesy said:


> ar-we-ther-yet said:
> 
> 
> > Point the rod tip to the bow and get towed until they wear out a bit more.
> ...


I think your onto it Gatesy, Im just going to keep trying, my fishing luck should change soon :lol:

Today when I started locking up I flashed that if I go in Im letting go of the rod, or end up in DJ's locker 8) :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Reading BluewaterJons thread, thats it Im getting 80lb, 250 leader :lol:


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## sitonit (Dec 29, 2006)

Perhaps try a different hook set up either 2 hooks or a stinger with treble so that you can get a hook into the gills or perhaps keep the fishes mouth closed which hopefully will tire the fish out quicker fishing 80lb on a yak sounds like trouble to me you will either be in the drink/wave zone/rocks etc. Good luck. Werent you considering taking large baits out for sharks at one time?


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## grimo82 (Jan 16, 2007)

......Sea hornet 'traveller' - 2ft spear gun - should slow him down......

My dads mate use to carry one on his boat for when he just couldnt make the gaff shot.


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## bombora (Mar 8, 2006)

If softly softly approach not working, and mono instead of braid not working, I've read where some guys realised some time ago that feeding em XXXXL sized livies worked. Basically the king was almost choking on the big baits and were _ relatively _ easy to land. Not too sporting, but you seem ready for anything  . Good luck in the quest!


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## L3GACY (Sep 2, 2007)

Heard the same story, its a difficult thing to judge but if you can choose a bait that will essentially plug their mouth they wont be able to pass water through their gills and you should have one easy fight after a little while.


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## feel the sting (Aug 8, 2006)

Breambo

If you just want to catch one. Put the yakker under a large float and let him try to pull that under. When he's tired, paddle over and pull him in.

the sting


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Yup Ive also heard of choking the Torpedo (not chuffing the ferrit or bashing the bishop or spanking the monkey) CHOKING THE TORPEDO - put out a BIG livey the fish cant help himself - ends up choking - not as strong....... my local tackle dude told me this one...... could be BS - but worth a try...

GOOD LUCK

Hey Ive mentioned this before but In NZ guys fish for big kings on tiny threadlines like 1000 size - they fish for them from a boat and then tow them to deep water - bit more of a chance... this i saw in Kingfish Secrets... I had it but lent it to some dog who has not returned it.... :shock:


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## fisherdan (Apr 17, 2007)

Breambo said:


> Any other suggestions.


Just keep enjoying it as much as it sounds like are brembo, well done!


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## paulb (Nov 12, 2006)

A couple of times I've towed the kingie's out to deeper water on hook up before starting the fight (not at Long Reef though) and I've been surprised that they've followed as easily as they did - mind you these were rats & I've never got close to stopping or even slowing anything much bigger. Maybe after setting the hook, just let them run with no drag pressure and chase them with minimal drag just to get in front of them and gently 'lead' them to where you want to fight them - though this could be hazardous as the moment they feel too much drag, they're going to dive, or head back to that nasty reef you've just led them away from - and having given them a good length of line to play with......... (worse still if it turns out you've only hooked a less than legal sized one and gone to all that risk)

I like the idea of a big float & letting it do all the initial work - but how big a float ? Beach ball sized :shock: ? 
This would even up the lack of balance we have on a yak......maybe a visit to Whitcouls to see what extra large polystyrene floats cost...... Didn't they do this for jaws ......?

Good luck


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## L3GACY (Sep 2, 2007)

They did, they used big barrels, around the size of a 44 gallon drum. Would love to have a setup like that on the back of the yak. The float idea isnt actually a stupid one, it should do a lot of work for you if they hook up solidly i'd try the white ones from boat shops first, they're pretty durable and light too.


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## paulb (Nov 12, 2006)

Sitting here in the pouring rain, thinking about floats and how big they'd need to be, I searched some sites and tried some dodgy calculations as follows:-
Diameter " Bouyancy (kg)
2 0.06
4 0.51
6 1.63
8 3.87
10 7.57
12 13.07
14 20.77
16 31.01

So I reckon 2 x 8" diameter polystyrene floats in series would allow the initial strike with approx 4kg resistance, then if the fish dives further, another 4kg from the second float. After this any additional drag you care to add, up to your comfort limit. So for 4kg of reel drag, plus the two floats, you're putting 12kg on the fish. Poly floats are about $10 for this size from a boating shop. Obviously a few more logistics on how to rig them, prevent line getting tangled between two floats etc.
A single float might be sufficient, combined with a little more drag - but it certainly looks like this would give a kayaker something to counteract our stability limits. (My calculations could be entirely out of whack, but it certainly looks like there is an exponential increase in bouyancy, for just a little increase in diameter).


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Mmmmmmm - floats - mmmmmm JAWS mmmmmmmmm FISHING mmmmmmmmmmm

FISH against MAN - MAN against FISH = FISHING mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

ALternative techniques used to employ the capture of fish

Nets
Spear
Grenades
RPGs
Floats mmmmmmmmm

FISHING = Some you win some you loose

FLOATS ??????

Would rather loose a fish fighting it than tire it out with a float....

Just my thoughts anyhow...

Woppie


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## Astro (Nov 27, 2006)

good idea on the floats, i have seen shark fishers use them for the exact same reason...however they were quite large in size, more like a mooring bouy for a boat


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## water_baby (Oct 26, 2005)

rigigng would be easy enough. 3-way swivel, with the bit of the T thats not inline going to the float.

as to whether or not you think this is still sport, or if you even care, its up to the individual. there are significant issues we face due to our stability and the amount of force we can use to lever a fish up, so i think floats could be a good piece of tackle in the arsenal. probably not wine barrels though.. :lol:

also, i reckon there is a physical limit on us due to above reasons that make a switch to 250lb leader essentially useless. i mean, if you hooked an 80lb leader on the bottom, could you break it off by applying enough force to the line before you toppled the yak? how about 60lb? 40 lb? i would test it out and see the max limit of leader that you can still break off, and then go up a level for good measure.

unless of course the thicker leader is for reef/structure abrasion resistance, and then its a different story. i dont think a 250lb leader will physically stop a fish any quicker than a 100lb leader (cos of the pressure you can put on it from a yak), but it will resist wear and tear better obviously.

out of interest, are you anchored when you are fighting them breambo? if no, maybe try it out, using the anchor as a solid base to apply pressure, watching out that the fish doesnt pull your yak down too far. i would have the knife out for this one in case of emergency cut-off!!

just some ideas.. 8)


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## fishnfreak (Jun 22, 2007)

wopfish said:


> Would rather loose a fish fighting it than tire it out with a float....
> 
> Just my thoughts anyhow...
> 
> Woppie


Totally agree with you here. I am a sportfisher rather than a kill fisher. Theres no fun in catching a fish with no fight.


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## water_baby (Oct 26, 2005)

Gatesy said:


> Breambo
> 
> i still reckon you need to just keep on doing what you are doing. You honestly sound like you are having a blast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


shit yeah  i would give my left nut to be blown away on 80lb.

hopefully soon...


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## sbd (Aug 18, 2006)

I reckon stick with the formula and you'll get lucky Breambo.



water_baby said:


> shit yeah i would give my left nut to be blown away on 80lb.


Perhaps you could donate it to JT?


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## troutfish (Jun 21, 2007)

i dont reckon you want to go over the top with your gear. I have had some encounters with big kingies (not from the kayak), and sometimes you wont stop them on anything. the suggestion was made about going easy on them in the early stages. This is aslo advice i have been given. the theory being, hook them, then back the pressure off. hopefully this gives you a chance to drift away / lead them away from any nasty structure.

at the end of the day, kingies dont have the reputation of being tough for nothing, and they will beat you up sometimes. IMO they certainly dont deserve to drag a float around until the are knackered


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## bazzoo (Oct 17, 2006)

wopfish said:


> Would rather loose a fish fighting it than tire it out with a float....
> 
> Just my thoughts anyhow...
> 
> Woppie


i agree 110 % Woppie , the sheer joy of having a big fish on your line and at least having the skill to hook it is good enough for me , of course in a good fight it would be great to get it to the side of the yak in a condition that would ensure its survival on release , and dine out on that memory for the rest of our lives . This Kayak fishing is a great sport , because we choose to make it so.


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## Dave73 (Dec 3, 2006)

bazzoo said:


> wopfish said:
> 
> 
> > Would rather loose a fish fighting it than tire it out with a float....
> ...


I dont have a problem with using a large float to change the leverage to improve your chances.
I have also briefly thought about using a gas canister which ignites a balloon a few meters from the hook, kinda like a self inflating life jacket setup... Not sure how to rig one up though. :?

I would like to have the option of releasing the fish in good condition, so the choking option is definitely less favourable for the fish.

Just my 10 Bahts worth.. 

Sawadee Kup

Dave (Thailand)


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## stonecold (Nov 5, 2006)

G'day B,

Thats a hell of a problem you've got there. I rekon 50lb braid is bloody hard to bust even from a big boat so I'm not sure going any heavier will see a benefit, from the amount of pressure you can exert perspective. Your fishing in an environment where the fish, particularly yellow subs, have the advantage. I wouldnt change what your doing at this point eventually you'll find one that plays the game your way. The bigger bait theory can work but the way your going you may only succeed in hooking a bigger king!

Cheers


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## water_baby (Oct 26, 2005)

well, i take everything back. hmmm, no, almost everything..

i hooked up to my first kingy from the yak today and got totally boned by it  my left nut WAS worth it after all...

i was using 40lb braid and 50lb mono leader on abu 6000 and ugly stick (my well-worn battle partner) and this is going to the shed for being shamed. admittedly, i was 30 feet down and 10 feet away from a jetty (practically on top of it!), so i had no chance at all.

cant wait to get blown away during the week :lol: :lol: going to bring out the big gun, so ill see how it performs. 8)


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## L3GACY (Sep 2, 2007)

Shoulda had the spheros with you, if you dont put a trip report up i'm gonna be very disappointed .


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## water_baby (Oct 26, 2005)

L3GACY said:


> Shoulda had the spheros with you, if you dont put a trip report up i'm gonna be very disappointed .


sorry for the hijack

i was only after snapper. dropped a whole bottly squid down and got nailed hard. ill put a quick report up tomorrow 8)


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## Marty (Mar 18, 2007)

just my opinion but there is no way you could ever apply that much pressure to the fish , without being towed around , the thought of 250 lb is pretty over the top , somefish are justnot meant to be caught , going any heavier than 50 is just wasting your time .
Probably have more luck trying to let them run or steer them froma different angle 8)


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## imnotoriginal (Jan 13, 2008)

I say stay with the sporting element and give the floats a miss. I think the suggestion of backing off the drag and trying to lead the fish away has merit, but I don't know the area you're fishing and how hard this might be around there. Good luck with it anyway, I'm sure they'll see your smile from the spacestation when you finally land one.
Joel


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## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

Thanks for the positive comments guys.
The reason for suggesting such a heavey leader was for abrasion resistance not pulling power as has been suggested. The 100 is snapping like cotton so going heavier is our only option.
The last trip saw some other problems which also adds weight to going heavy as possible to get the fish in quick with no mucking around. Dan hooked up first to what would have been a 15-20kg kingy but after a torrid struggle, at about 10m from the yak it was taken by a higher up predator than our selves. All he had to show was a mangled head :lol: :lol: :lol: Then he got smashed by something we think wahoo as Ive never seen a 16 foot kayak take off at about 15knots for 200m on the back fin !!!!! before leader failure (he was only using 100 on 50 braid). I was using freespool with clicker on, worked fine for the first couple of hookups, clunking into max drag was making headway even though I didnt land any. Then something hit so hard it overan the reel with clicker on, jammed it, loaded up the rod and busted again. I could try running the livie higher up in the water column to have some extra distance from the reef but then you miss out on the bigger hookups. I know Couta1 is running 200 but I think its time to go to wire as the leaders were all bitten clean this time. Also there has been a remarkable increase in sharks this week with fish being taken off the hook and also baits being smashed. My new reel has certainly had the drag tested lately, I think the drag need replacing :lol: :lol: :lol: 
So far we have been success full with kingys up to 80-90 cm but the bigger ones keep doing us. Keep trying. :lol: 
Ps Waterbaby, go 100 mate. :wink:


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## beefs (Jan 30, 2006)

you fellas are having way to much fun Breambo - sounds like some awesome fishing. Are you all using sounders or just GPS marks? Look forward to seeing some of these monsters - reckon you'll have it sussed soon.


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## L3GACY (Sep 2, 2007)

Breambo, if the kingies will still take your baits if you're using wire then i'd say go for it, worth a shot at least and you shouldnt have to go too thick anyway.


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## water_baby (Oct 26, 2005)

Breambo said:


> Ps Waterbaby, go 100 mate. :wink:


mate, i was only set up for snapper, so the kingy took me by surprise. not next time though..

the big gun has 50lb tufline and 3 metres of 80lb jinkai on it at the moment, i might put a 100lb leader on the spare spool and take that out too, that way i only have to change spool rather than retie a bimini on the yak after a bust-up.

at least i havent had to deal with "higher predators" taking my fish as yet... cant wait for that! well done mate 8)


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