# If you fell out of your yak...



## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

With the growth of the forum, and the huge increase in the popularity of yak fishing one thing has been really concerning me for some time.

It seems that this sport is attracting a lot more guys (and girls) who have never really been 'water' people. It seems that lots of people who are coming into the sport are not familiar with the water, not aware of the way that the ocean works. It just SEEMS to me that theres some people who would be in trouble immediately if they fell out of their kayaks.

And yet we are seeing these people happily buying kayaks and venturing forth onto the water in search of piscatorial greatness. Even more concerning is the fact that some kayakers decide that their first open water trip will be offshore in spots such as SW Rocks or remote beaches, often where theres swell, strong currents, big bitey things and no help close at hand.

The increase in people on this and other forums asking about sharks, stability of kayaks etc leads me to believe that theres many people getting into the sport whose enthusiasm far outweighs their ability (which is probably the way many of us started), but one of these days we're going to have a situation where a kayak angler in Australia gets into serious trouble or even worse.

So, the question I want YOU to ask yourself is..

_*"If I fell out of my kayak and / or got seperated from it, would I be able to effectively rescue myself??"*_

In order to assist newer members I think that it's about time we set some guidelines on what new kayakers should be capable of before they take on the water. I don't want to get into a full safety discussion (eg should carry flares etc) but more a general discussion on what PHYSICAL ability kayakers should have to ensure they are able to help themselves. I've put up a couple of suggestions below, please feel free to add your thoughts.

*I think the MINIMUM standards that should apply to anyone getting on a kayak are:-*

General awareness of tides, weather patterns, swell, wind, general geography of area being paddled

_ if seperated from kayak:-_
Should be able to stay afloat, fully clothed and without a pfd for at least 10 minutes.
Should be able to swim, fully clothed but without PFD for minimum 100 metres
Should be able to swim fully clothed wearing PFD for half an hour / 400 metres.

_If kayak overturns:-_
Should be able to maintain contact with kayak in choppy/windy conditions
Should be able to confidently turn kayak over and remount kayak in choppy / windy conditions

I'm not really sure what the answer/solution is to this problem. Hopeflly common sense will prevail and the majority of people getting into the sport will not go past their personal comfort levels. However I thought I'd put up a thread to let newer members know that the sport does have some dangers, and that being prepared and aware (along with enthusiasm) is the way to ensure that your time kayaking is a fun and rewarding experience, and doesn't turn into a 2 minute story on the 6 oclock news... Hopefully this thread will help in some way

Feel free to add your thoughts....and also let us know how competent you think YOU are...


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## redman (Jun 5, 2008)

Nice Post Davey. Hopefully gets a few people thinking that it is not just a no-risk pasttime.

I myself would like to think I am fairly condifent after spending my early years living on the river and playing around in canoes and boats - and often sinking the former just for fun  . Many a time have I swum longer distances in the river wearing clothes to keep the sun off so have a bit of experience with this as well. Haven't been out of the yak in rougher waters yet but I am just going to have to assume I can deal with this if and when it happens and I am confident enough to trust my ability in the water.

With regard to swimming with the clothes on for 400m etc - I can safely advise if I was seperated from the yak the clothes would definitely be coming off for the streamline effect - just have to hope your not picked up by the dad and kids out on a sunday morning fishing trip ;-)


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## FazerPete (Mar 10, 2009)

This is a good thread Davey. I'm a newbie to kayaking and not the fittest bloke in the world but I can swim and spent 10+ years yacht racing in PPB and Bass Strait so I understand the power and changeability of the ocean. PPB can change very quickly with just a wind or tide change and all of a sudden you have very close steep chop of 1m+.

I think the key is thinking of all the possibilities and trying to prepare for them. Things like having your mobile in your PFD instead of in your yak and wearing some sort of footwear incase you get separated from the kayak and end up on a rocky shore are simple things that can help.

I admire the guys that go further offshore than they can swim but I can't help thinking of the "what if" situations.


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## Scott (Aug 29, 2005)

I agree completely Dave. The other thing is these guys that have rocket launches with 6 rods hanging off them or milk crates ect lashed to the tankwell. These additional accessories on a yak mate it far harder to turn over after a capsize and having 6 rods lashed to the deck would be a nightmare trying to untangle and get out of the way when trying to turn your capsized yak back over. I often intentionally tip myself over and practice self rescue techniques in all water conditions. I always wear my PFD and have it strapped up tightly so it doesn't try to float over my head. I don't believe I could swim any distance with all of the clothing I am forced to wear down here without the PFD.

I have to admit that I am slack in regards to flares and radios but always plan on being able to save myself by always wearing my PFD and gradually increasing the lengths and complexity of my trips so i am aware of my limitations. I also often take the bare yak out in extreme weather conditions so I get to know what my yaks are capable of. Obviously when I started to do this I went out in increasing adverse conditions rather than jump in to a paddle in gale forced winds. Winds in excess of 25 knots are extremely tiring to paddle into and can come up with little warning if a current update is not obtained prior to the start of the trip. A tidal change can make a big difference in areas of strong tidal flow. I like to start a trip going into the current or wind so I get an easier paddle home.

Scott


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## cruiser (Dec 19, 2007)

A good timely reminder Davey G ,its very easy to get all wrapped up in our fishing adventures and forget about safety ,its a sudden shock to the system to be one min paddling or peddling along and the next instant face down in the water as most yakkers who have been doing it for some time would agree. I pick the right day to go offshore and want the sea almost looking like a lake before i venture out ,i study all the weather reports as well as bouy weather like a hawk but allways be prepared because believe it or not they can get it wrong sometimes ,on a average week i swim 1.5 ks ,three times and compete in ocean races in the summer and consider myself a reasonable swimmer but my biggest fear is being seperated from the yak and haveing to swim a long way back in ,so nowadays i stick with in a few ks of the shore unless i have company.Maybe if someone was just takeing up the sport they should go out on one or two offshore kayak tours to get feel for it ,just a thought

cheers cruiser

ps thats why im not out today the weathers crap


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## RangiRocks (Mar 19, 2009)

One of the main safety features of stinkies 2k or more out is a radio and epirb

A personal epirb would seem sensible ( in the PFD) for anyone going out that far if boats need them

As said already getting blown offshore is a real risk as well


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## tomca (Dec 1, 2007)

I don't think this problem is exclusively kayak related. Since deregulation of the finance industry, there has been a lot of stinkboats marketed as 'a slab of beer a week' and put a lot of newbies in boats too. Seen a lot more boats swamped around the seaway on the coast than, kayakers in trouble.
My girl can't right her yak, or get back on it if she can't touch the bottom, so there is no way I'd let her outside with me, but even impoundment fishing I keep her close, probably why I catch bugger all when she comes out. 
I keep my phone in the centre hatch and pop my boats flares in the hull when I head offshore. I don't have a plan b if I get seperated from my kayak tho, but only head offshore with other kayakers, if alone I only venture as far as moreton bay.


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## malhal (Jul 8, 2008)

I started Yakking about 12 months ago and the first thing I started doing was swimming at least once a week just in case. I have been a disatnce runner and cycler but never the best swimmer so the first time I swam 200m and was completely buggered. After many swims I can now swim 2kms and get out of the pool feeling fairly fresh. 1k- 2ks comfortably I reckon is a bear minimun I reckon people would need to swim to be able to do any kind on offshore work. When you take into account wind,swell, current and stress it can take it out of you.
Going offshore when starting out should never be done alone and should be done with at least one experienced Yakker. Also in my opinion if you cant right your Yak when out especially alone wether it be inshore or offshore you shouldn't be out to begin with. Flares radio phone etc are up to discretion but always let someone know where you are going and roughly what time expected back. PFD is a must if you don't have one buy one or sell your Yak.
I have lost count of how many times I have seen a report on the news about some rock fisho who has died because he couldn't swim or was towled up by what they say is a freak wave. I would rather never hear of this again as well as not hearing about some Yakker who has gone missing not wearing a PFD no flares can't swim etc. We have to have some plan in place if or when things don't go according to plan.
So get out practice righting your kayak, have an occasional swim, wear your bloddy PFD and catch some fish.
Cheers Mal


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## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

I remember when I first joined an everyones ones advice was to get my yak fitness up before venturing to far, increase your paddling distance each time you go out, and stay inside until your confident of your and your yaks ability.
The second was to flip my yak an see if i could right it, I haven't tryed this yet with the PA (summer when the waters warmer ;-) ) but am confident in my abilities and fitness to achieve this.

I don't go offshore much but I always go out with an escape plan, I have sunk two yaks over the last few years and after the first time, which i was luckily close to shore at the time I have always had an escape plan, *maybe a means of contacting help
*A plan of my fishing route that leads me from a safe point to a safe point where i can reasonable help myself.
*A number of mates yakking with me that could help out

I Always were a PFD inside or out, plus i carry a load of sh&t in mine :lol: , Those that know me know i have my yaks insides full of closed cell bouyancy foam so I know i can stay with the yak and she will get me home by hook or by crook.

Cheers Dave


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## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

I've said stacks before about paddle fitness, I don't know where that post is now but it could be handy if someone finds it.

What some noobs don't realise is just how quickly things can go pear shaped - Not just the weather. This story happened to me a few days after the Easter weekend:

On Easter monday I landed a massive Longtail around 20-25 keggers so I went out again to the same spot. I was about 1.5km from shore. The seas were slightly choppy and there was just enough wind to splash a bit of water across the deck. Pretty normal paddling conditions for these parts. I was livebaiting with a yakka while working a bait rod to get a slimey. Finally I landed a slimey so I wound in the yakka, chucked it away and bridle rigged the slimey in its place. When all was set, I stuck the rod in the holder and flicked on the freespool. After releasing maybe 4 metres, the line slipped through my fingers, then I saw my rod tip move and heard the reel spin. Because I wasn't prepared for a hit with only a couple of metres of line out, I panicked and flicked on the drag lever without pulling the rod out of the holder while thumbing the spool.

Woops... Big mistake! I didn't check the drag before sending out the slimey. At that point my ski tilted sideways at huge angle and I was forced to counter balance my body weight away from the loaded rod that was now fully locked in the holder and screaming off its nut. To make matters worse my yak was now getting towed backwards at around 10km/h with a rudder that I couldn't quite figure out in the panic. Because everything was happening outside my comfort zone, none of my usual fish fighting systems were in place. I had to deal with events on the fly. It was around this time when my paddle slipped off the deck and dug into the water, pivoted vertically then buried itself under the yak held by the paddle leash adding a further complication to the mix. So here I am heading backwards at speed, on the gunwhale edge with a paddle blade displacing the water even further as line is stripping off my reel. As I started ruddering it made things worse by tightening the hull displacement until I realised I was better off just holding the rudder position inline with my feet even. This is very hard to do when you are leaning off to one side of the yak being towed backwards by a fish that was easily over 20kg but felt like 50kg on my outta control yak. I suspect it was another stonker Longtail but that's not what this story is about.

I then stupidly released the drag lever again into freespool. I don't know why. If I was thinking straight I would have loosened the star drag knob a bit and pulled the rod out of the holder. Line tore off the reel again but I thumbed it to burning point but still couldn't get the rod out so I locked it off again. Around now I tried to loosen the drag knob. Then... Because I was going backwards I got confused and tightened it. To my credit, amidst the confusion, I wrapped the drougue line to my PFD to form a secure connection to the yak. This must've been a survival instinct because I certainly didn't remember attaching it at the time.

My yak then pitched at an even sharper angle when the wire rig cut through the swivel and the yak was free.

Even with a lot of big fish and bluewater experience under my belt, the day came, freaky things happened and I got caught out. If I was a noob in that situation, I doubt I would have the yak stability skills or personal yak knowledge to compensate balance without separating from the yak. Fitness played a huge role that day too because I needed to adapt fast. In my mind the complete lack of yak, rod and fish control was probably the scariest experience I've encountered so far on the water.


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## kayaksportsmark (Apr 1, 2009)

I suggest common sense rather than bravado on behalf of the new (or experienced) kayaker.
As an instructor I know the value of kayaking lessons for everyone, so suggest lessons as a first step.
The boat needs to compliment the ability of the paddler and be able to handle the conditions of the area you wish to paddle.So too does the paddle and other equipment. Be prepared but stay minimalistic in choice of gear. 
Practice and hone you skills in calm water first. Practice capsize and reentry techniques. 
Always wear a pfd. Always carry comms, even if its simply a mobilephone in a drypak. Always have drinking water. Dress for the environment.
Without getting into a full safety briefing, its up to the individual kayaker to be informed. As a rescuer I will not accept "But I thought I;d be ok" as an excuse for me risking my own life in big seas to put a harness on you and hoist you into the chopper.
Kayak fishing is an incredibly enjoyable activity and something everyone can do and should do, but be aware of the conditions and make sure your skills are able to match them.
Safe paddling,
Mark


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## fisherboy (May 4, 2009)

good post
Im a newbie and only young (13) but i am confident in my fitness abilitie and am thinking of getting a long thin rope to atatch me to my yak so if i do tip i wont drift from it.
Thanks, Eamon


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## deano199 (Nov 2, 2008)

malhal said:


> PFD is a must if you don't have one buy one or sell your Yak.


Does that mean i should sell my yak :? :lol:

Got one but i never wear it or even take it with me. (from last yak), my dad made me wear it until he was sure i could ge back in by myself and i havent worn one since. Where i fish if i had to im sure i could swim to shore but im hoping i never have to actualy do it.

BTW, my last yak was a Viking ozzie which was an absolute pig to rite as apose to the p13 soo the prowler is easy in comparison even with an esky and other bits and pieces in the tank well.  
Ive never tried with rods before as getting them wet on purpose just seems stupid. ;-)


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## Guest (May 25, 2009)

Good post Davey, and I agree that more should be spoken of when it comes to safety. I'm not sure I agree with some of the standards you're proposing though... or at least, they way they are presented.



> Should be able to stay afloat, fully clothed and without a pfd for at least 10 minutes.


Should we really be entertaining the concept of offshore kayaking without a PFD? I'm just wondering if the wording of this somehow suggests that perhaps you don't need to wear a PFD offshore, when we all know that you do.


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## ausbass (Feb 15, 2007)

I have tried getting back into my kayak when unable to touch the bottom, it was a bit difficult at first but then I found my 'rythym' and got back onto it. I havent ried it with my rods on but Im sure if would be difficult with them, plus now I have a milkcrate for offshore use (only to put some tackle boxes, a spare rod and net in) I think I might want to have a go at righting it with it on.

Having said that, I'll need to get some new flares. 8)


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## Jacks (May 19, 2009)

fisherboy said:


> good postgetting a long thin rope to atatch me to my yak


"Brilliant minds think alike".


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## kayaksportsmark (Apr 1, 2009)

Yakass said:


> Should we really be entertaining the concept of offshore kayaking without a PFD? I'm just wondering if the wording of this somehow suggests that perhaps you don't need to wear a PFD offshore, when we all know that you do.


I think the idea is to ensure the kayaker is comfortable in the water(deep water) and therefore is not going to panic if capsized and possibly separated from the yak.

I can swim well, I have many years of experience kayaking in various (adverse) conditions, I am confident of my own self rescue ability, but I still wear a pfd while kayaking. A pfd I can swim in.

Mark


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## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

Jacks said:


> fisherboy said:
> 
> 
> > good postgetting a long thin rope to atatch me to my yak
> ...


Not really a good idea - Bodily attachment to the yak can create worse complications. Maybe best to have some cord available as a subconscious Plan-B rather than a regular attachment.

A good mate of mine rolled out of his yak while gaffing a fish and had to cut himself free while trying to remount because he got caught up in a rod leash. The value of a personal tether is something to weigh up when it comes to Pro's and Cons.


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## Physhopath (Jun 21, 2007)

Doesn't have to be a windy or nasty day either.  
Just in the wrong spot at the right time, quite a nice day out on the blue when a slightly larger set came through.
I was prepared to get wet and also knew I could right my 'yak.
























Despite doing this infront of about 20 other 'yak fisho's was a great learning experience although slightly embarrassing    
Only lost my sunnies and some water cred


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## kayaksportsmark (Apr 1, 2009)

Physhoath nice pics.
For those unaware, as a general rule anything more than 45 degrees to current/waves can be considered sideways.
Glad you were ok.
Mark


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## swampy (Nov 26, 2007)

There are some good ideas in this thread. But I think the best advice is to 'practice' ,
a) Surf entry
b) Fall out
c) Righting your Kayak
d) Getting yourself back onboard
c) surf re-entry / exit

As a member of another forum we have a local group that have formed a social fishing "group". And through this group we have had two practice days with all of the above. Up till then I've allways been fairly blase` about the hole thing. Now after a fun filled afternoon of falling out and getting back on ( which I might add is harder than I thought it would be, There is definatly a knack to it) I feel much more confident that I can manage it on my own should there be no-one else around.

So all I can say is go out and PRACTICE.

Swampy


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## Barrabundy (Sep 29, 2008)

It's good that this topic comes up from time to time just to keep us thinking.

My swimming abilities are not that great. I think my 8yo son can swim longer distances thane me. I always wear a PFD without fail, no matter where it is, even on the farm dam. I've been tipped out once in the surf and had no problems getting back in. I even jumped out again to collect some of my flotsam.

The thing I need to keep in mind is that kayaks DO sink...don't they?...which means a swim, possibly with adverse tidal conditions.


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## Physhopath (Jun 21, 2007)

kayaksportsmark said:


> Physhoath nice pics.
> For those unaware, as a general rule anything more than 45 degrees to current/waves can be considered sideways.
> Glad you were ok.
> Mark


Photo's courtesy of DaveyG


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## Swamp (Nov 20, 2007)

Good topic. I paddle alone and must be ready prepare to rescue myself. When i joined this forum i followed most of the advice i found here.
~Built up my paddling fitness in protected waters
~Practiced re entry
~Played around to find out the limits of yak, stood up, sat on the front, sat on the back, tipped it over sideways, climbed on the upturned kayak.
~Found an effective technique to paddle with my arms should something happen to my paddle. 
~Played in the surf, rough weather, strong currents, strong wind

I can swim, I never remove my PFD while on the water and usually stay within reasonable swimming range of shore.

I cringe when i read trip reports of people pedalling/paddling straight out 4-5kms.


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## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

Swamp said:


> I cringe when i read trip reports of people pedalling/paddling straight 4-5kms.


That's very good news. The minority of people who fish well offshore are obviously sending out the right types of messages. Most are also well aware of the risks, are very well versed in wind, swell and synoptic forecasts beyond the location they plan to visit, are regular and experienced paddlers/peddlers and do not venture those distances if they feel uneasy about their capabilities on any given day. They are also very comfortable on their yaks and most are in tune with the equipment they use and the limitations that face them. Many have also spent hundreds of hours working up to the level they have achieved and have developed personal systems and processes that add perspective to the situations they encounter.


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

Yakass said:


> > Should be able to stay afloat, fully clothed and without a pfd for at least 10 minutes.
> 
> 
> I'm just wondering if the wording of this somehow suggests that perhaps you don't need to wear a PFD offshore, when we all know that you do.


Nope you've misunderstood/misinterpreted my words. This was meant to read that you should be strong enough and able to stay afloat when clothed and in the water (not necessarily offshore) for 10 minutes without wearing a pfd. This could be easily practised in a backyard swimming pool. Obviously if/when you DO have your pfd on you'll be able to stay afloat for a longer period, and yes it is recommended that if you're considering going out in open/offshore waters then you'd be advised to wear your pfd at all times.

My message is that you should be confident in the water (no matter where you are). Good to see such a wide variety of responses and as mentioned, i hope this post reminds people that it is in THEIR OWN interests to ensure they can right their yak, get back on and/or stay afloat if they do happen to get seperated from their yak in adverse conditions.


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## Barrabundy (Sep 29, 2008)

spooled1 said:


> have also spent hundreds of hours working up to the level they have achieved and have developed personal systems and processes that add perspective to the situations they encounter


Have you been reading one of my job applications??


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## Guest (May 25, 2009)

I am competant, as too are my 3 and 4 year old girls. Both can fall out and re-enter a kayak, and both are now confident to stay afloat without panick for over an hour (PFD 1 assisted of course).


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

I think you should only fish off shore the distance you can swim.

I also believe that a pfd is probably not the most easiest thing to swim in - so you might have to swim without it on ....

Absolutley right about a re entry with all your gear attached to the yak.

Emergency knife attached to your pfd if you get tangled in your rod teathers or line......... especially if you have a big fish take or a serious snag and the drag fails to release any line.

The ocean is a cruel mistress at times......

I personally wouldnt go off shore unless I buddied up with someone.......

Safe Yakking :lol:


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## Shufoy (May 28, 2008)

Great post guys, one to be read and taken in by new and old yakkers alike.

Personally i have been an ocean boy my entire life, from surfing and diving as a kid, dad owned yachts and i worked on cray boats as a teenager. The knowledge of the ocean and it's moods that i gained from this is the greatest safety device i ever recieved.

We had our own incident on our Exmouth trip with my wife going over on a particulary dicey day, the yak was also at anchor, and i ended up going in just to ensure she was able to right her yak, and get back aboard safely.

I think the most important safety advice is to know ones own limits, and abilities. Know what conditions you can handle if you have an incident. Safety is a very individual thing, as some of the conditions and distances i do i doubt others would be keen on. Preperation is also very important, yak maintenance, studying the weather, tides, knowing the ground, it's a culmination of all the possible factors that may have a bearing on your day. Having trustr in your yakking partners too is also important. I sometimes wonder whether advertising a trip going more than 4km offshore is a good idea, as it would be a better idea to pick your parteners for such a trip carefully.

All in all, i say this as i am preparing to head out through the mouth of the Murchison River tomorrow at Kalbarri, a passage considered dangerous in boats, yet alone yaks, alone.....

But hey, i wont be able to do it when i'm old will I!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## skorgard (Oct 6, 2007)

Good thread. I agree that you should never go out where you could not get back to safety if the yak disappeared. The single best safety system I think is a buddy. There are other sports - like scuba diving - where it is regarded as suicide to go without a buddy. AKFF is a great place to find one.


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## SSTupperware (Dec 30, 2008)

I believe we will see some accidents come up soon... its unfortunate but somebody will do something... I have swam on a lake I live on almost every day, but I do get a lil spooky when I get in some backwaters and wonder what would happen if something went wrong, at least in a boat you probably have someone with ya and can cruise a lot faster than a yak... Our club frowns on newbies in the Atlantic....


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## koich (Jul 25, 2007)

I have a few rules in regards to safety.

1)Don't be a peanut
2) if it looks sketchy from the bank, it'll be sketchier from the yak.
3) Fishing is meant to be relaxing, not an extreme sport.

That is all.


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## chris58 (Nov 25, 2007)

well i spent my childhood at or in the water, but that was a long time ago! but i think i could stay up right in the water with my gear on for say 1 hour? or 1 min if a boat was to hit me!
but you are not thinking of that when you end up in the drink, it could well be cold, windy and have a rip..
so if you were in the drink what would you pay for a life jacket $100 $1,000 !!
thats why i never go out with out my jacket on, ever. 
yes it is yellow and i must look like a paddel pop, but i go fishing for a good time, i eat my catch but i dont have to, to live.
so go for a good time dont end up being gone a long long time.


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## wobbly (Jun 13, 2007)

CAPS LOCK FOR EFFECTIVENESS:-

LISTEN UP!!!!!!!!!

I FELL OUT 4K OFFSHORE AND WAS ALONE AT THE TIME, TRIED TO REBOARD AND FAILED - TOO MUCH CRAP, RODS AND GEAR IN THE WAY, WEARING TOO MUCH SOGGY CLOTHING PULLING LIKE AN ANCHOR PREVENTING REBOARD - AFTER 30 MINS FLOATING IN SHARK TERRITORY FINALLY MANAGED TO CLIMB ABOARD BUT ONLY AFTER STRIPPING OFF - MAYBEE THE LAST ATTEMPT DUE TO EXHAUSTION - COULD HAVE BEEN A KILLER SITUATION!!!

TAKES ONE EPISODE TO LEARN WHAT CAN GO WRONG.

LEARN WHAT TO IS REQUIRED FOR EASY REBOARD.

ME - IF IT HAPPENS AGAIN IM PREPARED FOR IT - WHAT ABOUT YOU?.

ITS FOOD FOR THOUGHT - GET YOUR FACT RIGHT AND DONT END UP BEING A STATISTIC.

SAFE PADDLING

REGARDS

BRIAN


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## cruiser (Dec 19, 2007)

gee mate im glad that you made back in one piece,that story sounds like a nightmare,there are a lot of lessons in life and i am glad you live to tell us about this one 
cheers cruiser


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## Slide (Oct 25, 2007)

Only thing I can really add to this is be careful of those long sleeve light weight fishing shirts. Found out while practising getting back into a yak that swimming is rather difficult if you are wearing one. They create heaps of drag. I used to have one under my pfd. Not any more.


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## bunsen (Jan 2, 2009)

The safety tip no-one has mentioned yet is to always let someone know where you are heading, especially if going it alone, even if it is just a general area and where you launched from. Also, let someone know when you would expect to be back, and when to call you MIA if not returned. 
Interesting to note that swimming ability is no guarantee of safety, what happens if you lose consciousness for whatever reason? Statistically, "strong" swimmers actually form a higher percentage of rock fishing fatalities than non-swimmers, and most fatalities occur within 20 metres of the shore. Always wear a PFD, and consider wearing a wetsuit. Not only will it keep you warm when you get wet, it will assist your buoyancy too, and offer some protection if you get massaged by the rocks. :idea:


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## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

> consider wearing a wetsuit. Not only will it keep you warm when you get wet, it will assist your buoyancy too


Theres somehting i had forgotten about the extra bouyance of wetties, should have known as my mates go spear fishing a bit an keep talking about it  . I'd still always wear a pfd as a wettie won't float you face up if you get knocked out.

What sort of wettie do you wear and does it impede your paddling ?



> TRIED TO REBOARD AND FAILED - TOO MUCH CRAP


maybe something we should cover in detail in another thread peoples reboarding technique. Don't want to get off track here.

Cheers Dave


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## Scott (Aug 29, 2005)

justcrusin said:


> > consider wearing a wetsuit. Not only will it keep you warm when you get wet, it will assist your buoyancy too
> 
> 
> Theres somehting i had forgotten about the extra bouyance of wetties, should have known as my mates go spear fishing a bit an keep talking about it  . I'd still always wear a pfd as a wettie won't float you face up if you get knocked out.
> ...


Mate I wear a sleeveless long johns in winter or when its colder and a sleeveless short leg on hot days.Doesn't affect either paddling or pedalling. A wettie manufacturer will make them in whatever thickness you want. Guys up north might use 2-3mm where as my summer one down here is 4mm and my thick winter one is 5mm. If the wettie is glued as well as sewn they are warmer than a straight sewn one. As well as extra flotation they also keep you warm if you are in the water and offer sun protection.

I have also found that too many rods, crates ect make it too hard to re-right your yak and climb on board hence my earlier comments on this subject. It is all well and good to practice self rescue with a bare hull on a nice calm day but doing it with your full fishing kit in the sort of adverse conditions that you may find yourself in when actually tipped is another thing.

Scott


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## blaggon (Jan 14, 2008)

Slide said:


> Only thing I can really add to this is be careful of those long sleeve light weight fishing shirts. Found out while practising getting back into a yak that swimming is rather difficult if you are wearing one. They create heaps of drag. I used to have one under my pfd. Not any more.


good point. only thing i will wear under my pfd is a rashie or wetsuit.. summer or winter.. anything else goes over the top ;-)


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

I wear shorts and a rashy ready to swim if need be........... I'm not too sure if my pfd would float me head up if I became unconscious... in fact I'm not sure many do ( whats the deal with this ) ?


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## forbs (May 20, 2008)

Great post with lots of good ideas and food for thought. I fell out in a river which was the best thing that could of happened as you learn so much by an unexpected unplanned entry into water. Sometimes embarrassment is a good thing. The thing i really noticed was how quickly your Kayak can get away from you on a windy day in a river ! Trying to outswim a wind swept Kayak is hard work. So the question of tethering yourself is raised here with some pros and cons but no real definive answer. Any more input from experienced Kayakers on "to tether or not". I mean we normally would get in trouble during high winds, swells and the like so staying with your Kayak is an important one. Like most people have posted going with a friend is definately a priority most other things are easily organised, right clothing , epirbs, comms, PFD.


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Teather your paddle - for a couple of reasons -

When landing / fighting a fish you can throw it over the side and out of the way.

Because its tethered your not going to loose it - a big mishap if you do.

If you roll hold onto your paddle then you know your attached.

If you do roll and loose the tethered paddle and the yak drifts off then at least the paddle will slow the drift a little.

The downside is the more teathers the more likely you get get caught up in them if you do - thats why a carry an emergency quick release knife on the pfd...


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Personally the the dodgy things that have happened to me have been

loosing my paddle off shore on my first trip - managed to fish it back - phew... so teather the paddle now

Got caught on an outgoing tide and struggled to get back into the launch spot - rescued by a stinker - again on the first trip.... more experienced now on where I'm going.

Have been smashed on the beach ........ more experienced now on beach landings.....

Smashed on the rocks and lost loads ...... more experienced at launching now and take less gear to loose......

Have had three rods go off at once all kings...... snapped rods and ripped out recessed rod holders ie farcking big hole to let in water on top of yak....... now just fish one rod for kings and slacken off drag... safety knife to cut off fish if too big or snagged up.

So the other stuff in general has been dodgy conditions but Ive been out with friends and weve made the right choices and returned home...........


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## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

> I'm not too sure if my pfd would float me head up


PFD 1's are design to float you head up, I was talking to a member the other week who got dumbed out of the yak on a surf reentry and said the self inflating pfd's worked.

Cheers dave


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

justcrusin said:


> > I'm not too sure if my pfd would float me head up
> 
> 
> PFD 1's are design to float you head up, I was talking to a member the other week who got dumbed out of the yak on a surf reentry and said the self inflating pfd's worked.
> ...


Most kayak pfd's are Type 2 (designed for ease of movement), and as such won't float you face up. PFD1's have much more flotation in the front panels and as such always float the wearer on his/her back. They also have a high collar which holds the head up and out of the water, even if unconscious. I've tried mine (Ultra Gorge type 2)and it won't keep my head out of the water - in fact it rolls around so that my face is submerged. I guess that PFD 2's are designed for comfort (so that they are worn more often) and they are designed to help you stay afloat, but not if you're knocked out. This is where a buddy comes into play.

Great feedback so far - and spooled 1 and wobbly's posts have made it clear that things DO happen out wide, so its up to YOU to be prepared.


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

I've contrived a few experiments in this area. Here's my routine:

* think "Oh no, not again" (apologies to Douglas Adams)
* grab hold of yak - this is a priority in wind or current
* move to middle of yak and flop on top
* get a good grip of handle or other easily held part of yak
* flop backwards, turning the yak over
* swim around with yak collecting anything in the water that is in danger of sinking (such as a tackle bag). Forget about anything buoyant and your anchor is gone if not attached
* clear the cockpit area of all gear, including leashed rods (place in rod holders if possible)
* remount - for me this means one hand on each gunwale, a kick and a lift to get up and a flop on my stomach. I can then turn in various directions to get seated
* say thanks to anyone that has come over to assist - once had three boats stop
* pull in drogue if deployed
* handline in any fish still attached to line (this has happened more than once)
* paddle around collecting anything still floating and to get away from danger if close to rocks
* sort out tangled rods, drogue etc


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## Billybob (Aug 29, 2005)

The real problem I find is that less than half the people I talk to about minimum safety standards take any heed at all.

As I've said over the years, this sport is as risky as you care to make it.

For offshore reef work, I think ...

1) You need to be able to paddle strongly and continuously for at least three, if not four hours.

2) Be able to self rescue while wearing your pfd.

3) Wear your pfd at all times (I don't paddle with anyone who doesn't).

4) Carry an EPIRB or Marine radio on your person at all times.

5) Preferably carry a couple of day flares on board your kayak.

I usually recommend regular paddling sessions for four to six weeks minimum in the river or calm water to build up stamina and confidence. Fact is I think it should be more like three months but when I mention this, most newbies look at me as if I'm crazy.

Reality is, offshore kayak fishing is a serious sport.

When you're tired you make mistakes and most accidents happen when you are tired. The fitter and more competent you are the less likely you are to have a problem you can't get out of.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

Billybob said:


> The real problem I find is that less than half the people I talk to about minimum safety standards take any heed at all.
> 
> As I've said over the years, this sport is as risky as you care to make it.
> 
> ...


BBW, you make sense as usual. I'm interested in your take on two items earlier in this thread:
1) you should never yak further out than you can swim 
2) going solo

dru


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## Billybob (Aug 29, 2005)

> BBW, you make sense as usual. I'm interested in your take on two items earlier in this thread:
> 1) you should never yak further out than you can swim
> 2) going solo
> 
> dru


Dru, both of those statements are simply someone else's opinion. As are mine.

I think, if you're carrying the appropriate safety gear, there's no problem with going out further than you can swim. Most boaties do and I don't see myself as any different.

When I first started kayak fishing offshore there weren't many other yak fishos around. I had no option but to go solo originally and don't have a problem with it to this day. I go up to 8km's offshore, solo, but would never recommend anyone else do it. It's an individual decision.

Fact is, while at times I enjoy the company of my regular yak fishing buddies, I also love going solo because there are no distractions and I'm fully focussed on the task at hand.


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

dru said:


> BBW, you make sense as usual. I'm interested in your take on two items earlier in this thread:
> 1) you should never yak further out than you can swim
> 2) going solo
> 
> dru


I also believe that anyone who has confidence in their own abilities and has experience with kayaking in lots of different conditions should have no problems going out wide, and/or solo. Theres plenty of guys here who have the ability, seamanship and kayaking fitness to undertake regular offshore trips. Guys like Spooled, BillyBob, Couta, Grant Ashwell, Duran and others have all fished extensively offshore, know their craft, are capable in situations where big strong fish are involved and (most impotantly) know their limits. Usually these guys will also have their self rescue and safety techniques worked out before hand.

As stated at the start of this post -I'm not so worried about these guys. What worries me is the ones hwo have never swum further than the shallow end at the resort pool and who have never spent any time in the surf.

Personally, going more than 4km out isn't of interest to me (all the inshore reefs are closer than that where I fish), but in the right conditions I'd be quite happy to go further. If conditions weren't great then my limit would change and if conditions were really bad then my limit would be the coffee shop near the beach..... Large cappucino with 1 sugar thanks.
8)


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

BBW - I think of myself as part of the 50% who you spoke to that listened. That doesnt necessarily mean I accept as gospel everything in threads like this. Davey - I'm not trying to be controversial or argumentative, but I do wonder about some of the attitude in threads like this. Thank god for common sense like BBW.

imvho, some of things entering this debate border on who can be "hollier than the last one". Particularly from the 170 post brigade. We also seem to almost imply that noobs are twats with no brains, all of them incapable of thinking for themselves. Yakking is not the only open water sport that you can achieve relevant solo experience or survival training.

For what it is worth :
1/ I'm happy with the 3-4 hour hard paddle - took a hell of a lot more than 4-6 weeks to get there. But I am not ready for surf and I dont pretend that I am fine with 3-4 hours punching into a cresting blow. I take great cautioun with the weather. I'm happy in Moreton Bay where I am paddling at the moment.
2/ PFD always
3/ I regular test my re-mount abilty, in deep water, yak upside down, but I'm not risking kit by testing this fully rigged. 
4/ I have a PLB (with GPS because I want more than 5 km acuracy). Someone else can argue about EPIRB v PLB. I'm in a kayak for crying out loud.
5/ I have flares, but they are mini flares. Dont feel the need to find storage for safety kit designed for much bigger boats.
6/ I always have a home base that knows where I am travelling, B plan if appropriate, and an agreed "call the authorities" deadline.
7/ Where I am paddling currently I have mobile coverage. Mobile is pre-dialed with rescue services and in a water proof.
8/ I take a spare battery for navigation lights (yes I am frequently fishing either side of dawn/dusk).
9/ I have spare water and limited nibbles, in case I get unexpectedly weathered and decide to sleep it out on an island - mobile call to home base and this would be the B plan I mentioned. Has never happened, and I hope my trip planning means it never will.

What I am not concerned about is being solo. I also like to arrange to be with others at least the first time I am in a new place. I dont see a need to trot out my extreme environment experience or survival knowledge but being comfortable solo does not necessarily make make me an ignorant fool as otherwise implied in parts of this thread. I am learning all the time.

What I am definitely NOT comfortable about is any implication that if you have a spill at sea, you shouldnt have gone further than you can swim, so go for it. In the cold, after a long paddle and a scare (must have been, no longer on the yak), with a possibly dumping surf beach exit, even an olympic swimmer could have serious troubles with much shorter swims than they are used to. I'll stand corrected, but I dont know any survival or rescue course that says swim for it. To the contrary, generic advice is that people who stay with the vessel are saved more frequently than those who dont. Now if my choice was floating in Moreton Bay overnight with the bulls, I might just reconsider. Of course I have kitted myself up for a somewhat quicker rescue anyway.

"caveat emptor" on all posts, especially this one. 

dru


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Hey Dru

Further to my point........ yes I dont think its neccesary to be able to swim the distance - especially if your carrying Epirbs / Flares / Radios etc. I in fact do not carry those... but do have a phone....... If I was in trouble its general a 1k off shore and I'd rather swim than await to be picked up... of course if your 4ks offshore then its not the smartest of moves to try and swim it especially if you've fired your flares and your Epirbs calling in the Westpac chopper.. it makes sense to stick by your Yak and hold on ( if its still there ). But in a round up if your going way beyond what you could swim then you'd be wanting several ways of contacting a quick rescue mission. If your pretty close to the shore maybe less than a k or so (or your expected swimming limit and less ) then it could make sense to have a go and getting back to a safe landing spot in case other issues arise from waiting in the water... as in currents / drifts into rocks / biteys / or dangerous boat traffic.

You made a good point and am glad you picked up on the issue...

Cheers

Woppie


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## Shufoy (May 28, 2008)

Some great opinions coming into this post from some guys who definatley know there stuff, great to see.

I think personally, safety is a very individual thing. Sure there are across the board common sence things we should all abide by, but i think we all have a different attitude to what is safe and what isint. We really need to have a firm grasp of our own abilities and limits, and be able to accept these might not be the same for others. I'm no guru of kayak fishing, but i have always been one to push my own limits. I relise to some it may seem stupid or irresponsible, but in my eyes, it is safe, and i am well in control of any possible outcome wether it be good or bad. I think carefully considering what you may come across before a long offshore trip, or a dodgy passage crossing before you embark, and what you may do to counter these , is very important. Sit on the beach, and watch the swell, the rips, and exposed reef, know where you dont wanbt to be, as much as the best route to go, planning is an important safety technique.

I don't take offense to people critisizing the way myself, or others go about there yakking, but there isint just one rule for all. Some like to take the path most trodden, and others like to venture from that path. As long as you are sensible, well prepared and concious of your environment, go for gold.

Just a side note, in a spill, tip, or major hull failure, who feels things like flares, EPIRBS, radios are stored in a position on their yak where they could be accessed from an in the water, possible yak upside down, or semi-submerged position? Having them is one thing, but having them somewhere where they are accesible is another, considering you may not be in a position to dig thru gear in your hull to find them in a situation where you might need them.


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## rob316 (Oct 2, 2007)

essential piece of safety gear- especially for glass yaks - gaffa tape.....if for some reason your hull is breached , gaffa it up - it will seal enough to keep you afloat....works on the plastics as well......might never need to use it - but if you do $8-00 for a quality brand is nothing to save yourself - and your yak !!


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

Shufoy said:


> I'm no guru of kayak fishing, but i have always been one to push my own limits. I relise to some it may seem stupid or irresponsible, but in my eyes, it is safe, and i am well in control of any possible outcome wether it be good or bad.


Hmm, by Shuffoy being supportive I realise how easy it is for things to be taken out of context. I agree Shuffoy, but we both stand to be quoted in support of actions I doubt either would agree with.



Shuffoy said:


> Just a side note, in a spill, tip, or major hull failure, who feels things like flares, EPIRBS, radios are stored in a position on their yak where they could be accessed from an in the water, possible yak upside down, or semi-submerged position? Having them is one thing, but having them somewhere where they are accesible is another, considering you may not be in a position to dig thru gear in your hull to find them in a situation where you might need them.


An EPIRB is actually meant to stay with the vessel. That seems silly on a yak, so I have a PLB which is meant to stay with the individual. Mine is permanently in the front pocket of my PFD. And clipped into it so it cant make itself free unless I physically untie it. My mobile is clipped to the left shoulder of the same PFD. It would be replaced by a radio in an area with no coverage. I thought about it, but the flares can stay in the yak, it's not really safe to have them attached to the peson.
dru


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## Shufoy (May 28, 2008)

dru said:


> Shufoy said:
> 
> 
> > I'm no guru of kayak fishing, but i have always been one to push my own limits. I relise to some it may seem stupid or irresponsible, but in my eyes, it is safe, and i am well in control of any possible outcome wether it be good or bad.
> ...


Not quite sure of your point here mate. Feel free to elaborate.

My point here is, what may seem safe to me, might not seem safe to you. We need to learn to accept this as part of our sport, and it is a constant throughout many recreational pastimes, boating is another example. Some may feel with safety that it's their way or the highway, but imo this is a self righteous and ultimatley ignorant perspective.

I guess a good example of this is in this thread some say to go more than 4km offshore is unsafe, whereas to me it's quite safe, and in fact we go double that distance, and have done several times. To me it's fine, and the others we go with, but in others eyes it's not, so who's right? I say we both are, we just need to accept opinions differ.



dru said:


> Shufoy said:
> 
> 
> > Just a side note, in a spill, tip, or major hull failure, who feels things like flares, EPIRBS, radios are stored in a position on their yak where they could be accessed from an in the water, possible yak upside down, or semi-submerged position? Having them is one thing, but having them somewhere where they are accesible is another, considering you may not be in a position to dig thru gear in your hull to find them in a situation where you might need them.
> ...


In Western Australia you are required to have an EPIRB in a lot of areas by law, and yes, i realise it stays with the vessel Stupid or not, it's required. The main idea behind the EPIRB is to let people know your in trouble, and as most have a 5km radius, there to be used in conjunction with other signalling devices, ie flares etc, to pinpoint a search area. PLB's in WA aren't even considered a legal alternative to an EPIRB.

My point behind this and the rest of the quote is that you can't rely on these things to save your life, and in times when you may need them, are they in places where you can get to them in varied conditions. Just something to consider when setting up your kayak. If a mobile is a sufficient form of communication where you live, then as you have done, have it in an ascessible place. Some spots in WA have no mobile coverage, as i have found on my travels, so ultimatley EPIRB and flares are a much better alternative. It's situational i know, but more than worth considering, and all part of the extensive preperation i mentioned elsewhere in my post.


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## kayaksportsmark (Apr 1, 2009)

Some very interesting points made by those on the side of caution and those who like to stretch their limits. 
You need to be aware of your own skill and fitness levels and your own problem solving ability in the case of an incident to minimise further exposure to risk. The decision to go paddling on your own or with the buddy system is a personal choice, as too is your choice on pfd, exposure protection, safety equipment, where to go, when to go..... 
You should be prepared as best you can and make the most sensible choices you can, do your research, take a paddling course and keep up paddling fitness and skill levels. 
Mark


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

I think what really needs to be said is you take the level of risk that your comfortable with and capable of. If you decide to push the boundaries then you must live with those consequences.

As an example - during much of this summer and even now Ive been surfing till the very last light.... literally by the time I get to the carpark afterwards theres just a hint of colour left in the sky - the end of dusk( there are many that surf after too - nutters !!). Now I'm sure we are all aware of the dangers of shark attack by surfing this late... but I'm aware of what I'm doing... there is a very small risk and I take it. If I get attacked - then Ive made my choices and live by those, accepting the fact of being seriously injured or killed. I do not expect anyone else to come on this risky trip as this would be something that they would have to think about before they ventured out with me.
I think the same can be said for yakking off shore - the more distance between you and the land possibly increases your chances of problems if you do have a mishap.....

So those solo off shore guys have probably risk asessed their options some what akin to my evening surfing risks.

I suppose what should be asked before you buddy up with someone is checking that you both feel confident in each others experience , equipment and fitness ( both physical and mental ). Its always good to pipe up if your unsure of anything before launching. Ive been guided by many of the crew on here at certain spots round Sydney and Ive also tried to help newbies out at certain spots - some where like Cloey ( if your a newbie to it ) it helps being there with some one that knows the ropes as we have nearly all f#cked up there at some stage.....


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## FazerPete (Mar 10, 2009)

I was one of the people that questioned about venturing farther than you can swim. It wasn't a criticism just a question. If you feel safe doing it then go for it.

One thing I am curious about though is the hull strength of a kayak. As I mentioned, I've done lots of ocean sailing with a number of Bass Strait crossings and an ill fated Sydney-Hobart and the one thing about yachts is they almost never sink. Even if the keel has been ripped off and they're full of water, they tend to stay afloat. There's have been many people who have died in a liferaft while their abandoned yacht was found still afloat the next day. Would a kayak stay afloat if it was hit by another boat or bitten by a big toothy thing? Separation from your craft when offshore is not good and we basically worked on the principle that if you fell off the yacht in Bass Strait, you were dead.


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Would a kayak stay afloat if it was hit by another boat or bitten by a big toothy thing?

I think the general answer is NO ! Some of the boys on here - I think Peril ( good name !) have tested their Yak in the pool and I think they sink. Unless you have sealed bulk heads / floatation devices - then they go down ( unless there is air trapped and sealed ). Further to this some of the lads have filled their yaks with foam and pool noodles but you'll have to have a look at past posts to see how they got on nut from memory it takes a lot of foam and noodle to keep them afloat.


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

DaftWullie said:


> Most (if not all) of the Yaks built in the RSA are built to SAMSA (South African Marine Safety Authority) regulations as well as comply to international buoyancy regulations and do have bulkheads and flotation so if one compartment gets a hole the other 5 should keep you afloat not that this is going to help you if you fall off.


Yes - to simplyfy ( i might get shot here ) most plastic yaks do not have the floatation / bulkheads in them. But in some instances many glass yaks do.......


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## FazerPete (Mar 10, 2009)

wopfish said:


> it takes a lot of foam and noodle to keep them afloat.


That's what I would have thought. I imagine it would add a fair bit of weight to the kayak too. Just as an idea, would it be more effective making bulkheads out of pool noodle and filling the compartments with sealed plastic bags full of air or even helium? It'd be a lot lighter and should give more bouyancy.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

wopfish said:


> DaftWullie said:
> 
> 
> > Most (if not all) of the Yaks built in the RSA are built to SAMSA (South African Marine Safety Authority) regulations as well as comply to international buoyancy regulations and do have bulkheads and flotation so if one compartment gets a hole the other 5 should keep you afloat not that this is going to help you if you fall off.
> ...


I think that most of the kayak clubs require double bulkheads if you want to join in on their sea kayaking trips. Glass obviously. Does anyone know the limitations in tupperware?


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

wopfish said:


> Would a kayak stay afloat if it was hit by another boat or bitten by a big toothy thing?
> 
> I think the general answer is NO ! Some of the boys on here - I think Peril ( good name !) have tested their Yak in the pool and I think they sink. Unless you have sealed bulk heads / floatation devices - then they go down ( unless there is air trapped and sealed ). Further to this some of the lads have filled their yaks with foam and pool noodles but you'll have to have a look at past posts to see how they got on nut from memory it takes a lot of foam and noodle to keep them afloat.


Dick's memory is a little faulty here. We expelled as much air as we could from a Hobie Outback and a Cobra Pro Fisherman. The Cobra remained on the surface. The Hobie didn't but it only just went down. However, we went to some effort to get the air out. In any holing situation is is likely that enough air will remain for the craft to remain on the surface.

A major finding of our experiment is that when around 50% full, both craft became too unstable to remain aboard. So you won't keep dry or out of sharks' way. However you need to consider that an appropriately coloured craft will remain far more visible from the air than a person. Can't for the life of me understand why people put to sea in craft with colours like "moss" or "dune"


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## Southerly (Apr 20, 2007)

Peril said:


> Can't for the life of me understand why people put to sea in craft with colours like "moss" or "dune"


Maybe they think such a 'stealth' mode will hide them from those big toothy things. I'm waitng for the glow in the dark and flashing yak.


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## FazerPete (Mar 10, 2009)

Peril said:


> Can't for the life of me understand why people put to sea in craft with colours like "moss" or "dune"


That thought had crossed my mind as well. Is there any evidence that a camouflaged kayak catches more fish than a bright orange one? I've got a bright orange and yellow kayak and while I don't catch that much, I p'ut it down to my crap fishing skills rather than the kayak.

Personally I'd rather stick out like the proverbial pair so there's some chance that there's some chance stinkers might see.


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## Marty75 (Oct 23, 2007)

Southerly said:


> I'm waitng for the glow in the dark and flashing yak.


I did actually see a glow in the dark boat on the New Inventors show on the ABC a while back. Awesome idea!

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s2544939.htm

Marty


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## bazzoo (Oct 17, 2006)

I havnt read all of this thread unfortunately as the nubiles have been busy with other stuff and havnt been doing their regular job, but i think its so important i will read it all myself, i havnt been going offshore in my kayak for some time , as last time i went out was with Dave [Peril], and i was a little concerned ,not scared but concerned, as i had not fallen off a ski or kayak in many years due mainly to experiance and good balance ,but recently had had back surgerie and put on weight , so was really unsure in the event of a fall of , if i could remount the kayak. Now i am an extremly experianced kayaker and long ski and wave ski rider and the amount of fall offs and remounts i have had would run into thousands over 40 or so years , but i hadnt fallen off for so long i was unsure i could remount after the surgerie , so i canned the idea of offshore and restricted myself to rivers and creeks, as swimming was not a problem and i knew i could still swim a kilometer or so . I like to keep the deck of my ski or kayak completely clear of clutter because if i have to get back on and i have to flip the craft , i dont want anything in my way , rods leashed , paddle leashed , lures and gear stowed in the hull ,so i can forget about them until in back on . This spring i am going to do quite a few fall offs and remounts in a friendly enviroment just to make sure i can still do it , and if all works well we fish offshore again , but if there is any doubt at all , its Bass for bazzoo , and i would suggest that our older members of which i am one adopt the same attitude


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

Just a short note on the topic of safety - there will be another AKFF members Kayak Skills course held at Currumbin (Gold Coast) on Sunday June 14. More details here viewtopic.php?f=30&t=27818. The last one held in early May was apparently a great day

This will cover basic safety and paddling skills, re-entry techniques etc. Cost is only $20 for AKFF members (normally $60) and this will be run by Australian Canoeing Qualified instructors. Anyone who wants/needs a refresher/introductory course - this is a great opportunity to learn and have fun


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