# Sticky  The Filleting Knife Thread



## Barrabundy

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## Barrabundy

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## Barrabundy

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## Zed

I prefer a breaking knife/blade. The curved blade facilitates continuous cutting as you change the angle (parallel to the edge) of the knife.


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## scater

Brad did the pro say why the stiff blade was better for tuna? I've seen a few videos on YouTube and noticed the preference. Then again I've only ever used the flexibility of my filleting knives to press the blade flat to the table when skinning. I use a Martini by the way and find it great.


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## Zed

I don't know if that was rhetorical or not.

The scimitar was for illustration, but most of the pros here that regularly fillet school to 100lb tuna and various kings while under way, use Forschner breaking knives. You can have an even, continuous slice through the stroke with the curved tip of a breaking knife.

I really like filleting fish. Each fish has its technique and tricks.


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## scater

I miss barramundi. They're like a Fisher Price "My first filleting fish". Big strong bones that guide your knife around the fillets and skin so tough you couldn't stuff up the skinning with a chainsaw. Mackerel drive me nuts, particularly with skinning, I either leave masses of skin on or sacrifice flesh.


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## scater

I have always used a diamond steel for my cook's knives (wusthof and global) and it puts a good edge on the filleter but I find the flexibility and curve of the blade makes it difficult to maintain a consistent angle. Therefore I'll get some sections of the edge super sharp but others not so much. I think a pull-through sharpener might be the answer:


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## Levi

I Always use the finnish Marttiini knives&#8230; impeccable!

http://www.marttiini.fi/epages/Marttiin ... s/Kalastus

You can get some pretty decent ones at reasonable prices if you shop around.

For sharpening I use the japanese wet stone, something like a 1000/6000 split. 5 minutes on one of these and you can literally shave with it&#8230; that's my check for 'useability'
Must admit, there is a technique to using these, but nothing youtube and a few practice rounds can't show you.


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## BIGKEV

There was a particularly good thread on here about kitchen knives a while back and I learned a thing or two from it's pages, some of it might be relevant to the sharpening side of the discussion http://akff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=51937&hilit=kitchen+knives

I use an F Dick 6 inch boning knife and a Swibo 20cm butchers knife.

















Both are flexible, but the 20cm job flexes lots less. I use a traditional steel to add an edge when required but both knives are now at a point where a proper honing is required and will be sent to a knife sharpener in the coming days.

The Dick is a much tougher composition compared to the Swibo, as in the Swibo feels soft on the steel and you can actually feel it cutting an edge on the blade, where as the Dick takes a lot more work, but also will last longer on tougher fish with bigger scales and stronger bones.

One word of warning in regards to the V type knife sharpeners, if for some reason you end up with a dent in your blade the V sharpener will only increase it's depth not cut it out. To get rid of this you need to have your knife honed over a wheel or stone. It is easy to put a dent in a very sharp blade on tough fish such as larger snapper as their rib bones are tough and all you need to do is twist your blade a fraction when it is embedded in the bone to put a chip in it, or better still have your wife chuck your razor sharp knives in the dishwasher with the rest of the cutlery and have it bang and crash about.....

Kev


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## BIGKEV

indiedog said:


> Kev, what do you use each knife for? Did you get flexible because that's what everyone else has or because of the way you use it? I reckon that's butcher's knife would be better for all those longtails you catch. ;-)


Brad, I had the smaller flexible knife originally as that was what you needed apparently, it has served me well for years but as I got more interested in fishing offshore and actually catching a few better fish it became painfully apparent that it just wasn't going to do the job after a few disastrous butchering sessions. So I bought the bigger knife to suit what I felt I needed from a knife, not through any external tuition. It really is a different animal and behaves so differently to the little bloke, but more often than not I find myself using both knives during the course of a session.

I like the smaller more flexible blade for skinning and knocking out bones, the big fella does the bulk of the butchering before I swap generally. As I said earlier the smaller blade on the F Dick seems to be of a very different composition and the F Dick will often be used on reef fish with tough scales and hard bones as I know I won't damage it. I would like a bigger knife with a broader blade with similar steel characteristics to the F Dick steel though, as the flex of the blade is not ideal at times as it is tough to get the solid 'heel' of the smaller blade into some of the rib bones on some fish. So I can see where you're coming from in regards to the comments re: a stiffer blade.

With the faster growing pelagic species the bones seem much softer and you can be slicing through them without noticing at times but the extra blade length is the key here as my filleting will consist of 4 basic cuts for these fish. The first across the body near the pectoral fin, then a cut along the length on the top of the fish nearly to the back bone, then along the length on the underside, the final cut will run from the tail to the head with the heel of the knife resting on the backbone. I picked up this method from a youtube clip and it works well for me with the tools I have at my disposal.


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## bennoz

not just filleting skills - that knife is bloody sharp !!!!

and thats the key - a sharp knife ! Doesnt really matter too much what you use - as long as its sharp

for me - the flexible knives are used for skinning.
i use a normal knife for the main filleting / butchering

i use a straight edge - one continuous curve. Only for the fact that its easier for me to sharpen. 
I used to have a knife like this with a curvy blade, and i just couldnt keep the whole edge sharp: 









now i use one like this - cheap, basic and because i can keep it sharp it does the job fine


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## Junglefisher

I have an SSAA hunting / fishing kinfe roll with (I think) Tramontina knives. I like to use the boning knife (6 1/4" extra wide) for most of the work and then the long, flexible knife (about 12" long) for skinning or running down the backbone of larger fish. I find the skinny standard filleting knives very hard to control and tend to lose a lot more flesh when using one. They are also hard to keep sharp up near the tip, which is where you need it sharp.
I use a steel to keep them sharp. If I needed to, I'd use a couple of stones to rehone them.
These are just the knives i have though, I'm sure there are better ones, I've never looked.

Edit : This is the boning knife i use http://www.kizlyarknifestore.com.au/ind ... cts_id=639
The long one is something like this http://www.tramontina.com/products/7403 ... lain-edge/


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## Barrabundy

For sharpening I use a steel....smoother the better!

Once the angle of the edge has become too blunt, from continual sharpening on the steel, I then get a stone out and go to town, coarse stone first to take bulk amount of material away and then go to a finer one before finishing with a steel to be able to shave. If a knife can't shave hairs off my arm then it's not sharp.....generally none of my knives are sharp


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## Zed

Re sharpening:
Ill spend a while each year to hone my knives. Ive got a tristone I use. I use asteel stick each usw the rest of the year. I dont get to use my fillet knife much so it stays pretty sharp stored in a block.

My dads got a diamond steel thats eliptical/eye shaped instead of round. That thing really takes off edge. If youre not careful its a quick way to round the edge.


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## paulo

I just changed from a kershaw to a swibo after reading one of Kev's posts. Only done spots and spanish so far but loving it. Think i got this link from the same post. 
Actually just checked and i have this one.
http://www.everten.com.au/swibo-knives/ ... -20cm.html
Think i might try one of these to.
http://www.everten.com.au/swibo-knives/ ... -20cm.html


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## avayak

I visited Japan and as a memento bought a Deba.








It takes a bit of getting used to as it is about 5mm thick with a single bevel.
Sharpening it is similar to putting an edge on a wood chisel. I use a coarse and then a fine diamond plate and then Japanese whetstone to achieve a mirror polish. It can get crazy sharp and glides through tuna and kings.
It is however quite brittle on the edge and I once chipped it cleaning a drummer and spent a day resharpening it.
It takes work to look after but is a beautiful thing.
The link explains the various types of Japanese cooking knives, there is an amazing array of specialty knives.
http://www.kiya-hamono.co.jp/english/shurui.html


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## Zed

indiedog said:


> Zed said:
> 
> 
> 
> I really like filleting fish. Each fish has its technique and tricks.
> 
> 
> 
> I see a video assignment in your future Zed. Would love to see how you deal with a halibut. Maybe get your dad to catch one for you?? ;-)
Click to expand...

Damn, the dog's got claws. May you be hexed by fish shorter than your knife.

Hali are easy. You make an H or an I. Cut right down the centerline feeling the spine, across at the tail and across at the gills. Fillet away from the center. Flip and repeat. 4 fillets and a frame you can see thru. You can take the cheeks out too, since they are delicious.

I find skinning is easy with the breaking blade, too. The knife stays nearly stationary, and the fillet gets sawed back and forth and pulled back away from the knife.

avayak, I've got a shobu too for sashimi/sushi. I like the single bevel. It's a good knife, but it also sits in the block a lot.


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## Junglefisher

Zed said:


> I find skinning is easy with the breaking blade, too. The knife stays nearly stationary, and the fillet gets sawed back and forth and pulled back away from the knife.


Definately move the fillet and not the knife. I like to make a start, then cut a slit on the skin to provide grip and pull the skin.


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## Ubolt

I use a 6 inch flexible swibo for filleting all my fish. I don't catch tuna tho mostly snapper and mullaway and use a 8 inch swibo knife for skinning. Find the 8 inch length better for skinning with its extra length and wide. Wondered how a curved blade would go always find the tip of my fillet knife goes blunt first


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## bildad

The traditional sharpening steel does not sharpen; it maintains the edge by unfolding it. This straightened edge is still weak and quickly folds again. Eventually, the edge breaks off or folds so tightly that it can't be straightened with a steel and must be reshaped. Using a steel requires significant skill and practice. To be effective at all, the steel must be used after every 10 to 50 cuts, before the edge folds over too much to straighten. True sharpening removes the old weak edge and reshapes a new stronger edge.


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## keza

Did it arrive with a free roll of plastic wrap ?


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## Zed

Knife block with rest of the arsenal indie.
Or do you need to transport it?


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## paulo

With sharp new knives I decided it was probably time to invest in a filleting glove for the free hand. I normally use a $5 orange glove from bcf to get a good grip on the fish but yesterday I decided to see what was available that would actually protect my hand should I slip. I found a few examples of the gloves in bcf that started at around $35. They all claimed to take a knife slice but their quality of materials and workmanship looked poor.
What do others use? Can anyone recommend a quality product?


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## keza

Jon, those blades are only 20cm, I thought the one you had looked longer than that.


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## paulo

indiedog said:


> Feels razor sharp. Need to catch another tuna. Only down side is no sheath supplied so need to sort something. Suggestions?


Knife sheath a-la Polymorph








The sheath that came with the Swibo is nothing flash for the price. I made the red sheath from polymorph. Works just fine.
The swibo is considerably stiffer than the bottom blade I used to use but atill plenty flexible. I am tempted to get boning knife for the initial cuts but unsure what it means when they say the blade is stiff, semi flexible and flexible. A cooks knife doesnt flex at all and I want something stiffer than the filleting knife. Pity they dont use a recognised scale to describe a knife's stiffness\flexibility.


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## paulo

Close inspection of my old knives revealed how pitted the blade edges really are. What does a modern day tinker look like? Is that the Mr Minit bar at shopping centres that re-heel shoes and cut keys?


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## Barrabundy

On the subject of protective gloves, I did a butchering course many years ago. There were chain gloves available for us to use if we felt the need but the instructor told us that if we used them for a little while we were to wear them for the duration of the course. He was anti gloves because he thought people who used them began to get clumsy and relied 100% of the glove to stop the blade rather than just be careful. Those people were also forever sharpening their knives because the gloves would dull the edge when the knife made contact.

I'd seen too many old fellas missing fingers to care about sharpening my knife too often so chose to wear a glove. Pretty sure you'd find the chain mail ones around for not a whole lot of $$ if you felt you needed that level of protection.


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## Zed

Peril gives up the goods:

http://www.akff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=179775#p179775


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## Dave73

Got to love the Japanese,

Video of 4kg yellowfin process..





Cheers Dave


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## gbc

That'd be good old school jap carbon steel with a fish blood patina. No stainless will ever come close for sharpness.

For us mortals, I'll second barrabundy with the zest knife from BCF. It is cheap, cheerful and gets an edge worthy of a much more expensive knife.

I'll also second the knife doctor's work. He has done many knives for my father and myself, and to see his work is to watch a craftsman. He re landed and double edged a couple of antique carbon Lyon sabatiers I have, along with my normal kitchen knives and they would perform much like the blade in the above clip if I ever had the nuts put them into something with bones - I won't carve a leg with them because I don't have the skills to rehone them like him.

I find the zest filleting knife is the one I reach for the most these days when filleting, maybe the thin martini for whiting etc. When skinning reefies and bigger fish I find a long chefs knife does the best job for me.

If you ever come across an old rusty bone handled carving set or the like, chances are it is carbon steel. Get that sharpened and apply a mustard patina to it and you'll have a blade many times better than a standard staino jobbie - photo of one of mine below. It will require a certain amount of love, and a lot of hiding from the mrs lest she gets hold of it for cutting bloody birthday cake on a glass serving platter.....


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## BIGKEV

gbc said:


> lest she gets hold of it for cutting bloody birthday cake on a glass serving platter.....


Why do they do this......?


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## paulo

Thanks for the headsup on the Knife Doctor, Jon and Kev. Turns out he was within walking distance and has a quick turnaround service the first two Sats of every month. I just dropped off four knives to be done and will collect this arvo. $35 for the lot. He has an impressive array of knives and unrivalled knowledge of each.

I couldn't resist an fdick semi stiff boning knife at $19.95 and grabbed one of the cheap knife edge guards for $4.95. Cheaper than anything I found online for his whole range. When you take into account the included free first sharpening at $8.80, Its an $11 knife. :shock: The same knife was available in stiff and flexible blades also.








I am going to upgrade my steel when I go back and probably wont be able to resist another knife from his range at those prices. Will grab a few more knife edge guards for other knives I have bare. Simply cut the one end with a hacksaw to the angle of your handle.

Interestingly he only had a single swibo on display. He said they are the most prone to corrosion and no longer used in gov medical centres (or somethething like that. I could only see shiny hanging on the wall as his words washed over me). Victorinox the least and he sends more of that brand than any other to the NT. If you are going to use a pull through type sharpener make sure the blades are ceramic (not carbide) and that the knife is centred on every stroke.

Best leave the credit card home when I go back to collect.


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## paulo

indiedog said:


> That's a great buy there Paul, next time you're there grab an extra edge protector or two as I'm sure I'll take it off you. Mind you after this post I just may have to head over that way in the not too distant future, good feedback on the various brands. The Knife Doctor may be the expert we needed to find.
> 
> Did you ask him specifically about knives for different kinds of fish? Or could you just not resist its shiny qualities??


Brad Im going back in a few hours. PM me the length and width of your blades and i will grab the guards for you and drop them in on my way past next. The larger ones were up to $10 or so.

His thrust was more butchers and chefs but he did explain the different use for each type of knife. I think Kev may have already said it, the boning knife is for getting in around the bones. Flexible for chicken, semi stiff for lamb and stiff for beef. He did say the blade stiffness was more a personal preference. I was after a knife for the initial backbone cuts and the final cuts when disconnecting the whole side fillet from the head on longtails as the 20cm swibo filleting knife I recently bought is probably too flexible to stand up to too many.

I have been using an accusharp with carbide blades on my knives for years and the blade pitting is very obvious, just as he described it would happen. I am going to upgrade my sharpener to a ceramic as well.


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## gbc

Yes, I forgot to mention the toys he has on the walls. Last time I walked out with a new knife block that will hold my big chefs knife. There's a couple of very pretty Damascus blades in there which might find their way home next time.....


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## paulo

Some more chestnuts from the knife doctor:
With use, the sharp edge gets bent over. Using the steel stands the edge back up straight. Using the pull through type sharpener takes the edge off. Do that enough and you end up with a flat section in between the two side of the blade that then needs to be rehoned.

Difficult to believe you can still buy something of such quality that will outlast you for under $20 and every so often restore it to its former glory for under $10.

I got a demo on correctly using a steel. Hold the steel vertically with the tip on a bench. The blade at 11 oclock to the steel is 30 deg, half that is the 15 deg angle you want to be pulling the blade against the steel using 1-2lbs pressure. Pull it through in the normal arc slowly.

Learnt a lot about knives today. Every so often you come across someone that is so passionate about what they do they happily share a lifetime of knowledge with you and you get the opportunity to soak it all up without having to research it on the internet and weed out the bollocks from the gold.


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## gbc

http://www.ausfish.com.au/how_to_fillet ... head.shtml

Pretty much how I do a flathead. Hope it helps.


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## spooled1

That tuna clip is aweso - Great to learn a new technique
The other day I copied that method and the main slabbing stage is dead easy. As easy as it looks. By far the best way to break down those small jellybeans into workable bits. I still prefer to do the final stages on the bench though.
Did it with victorinox like the black handled one pictured in the previous post
Thanks


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## Zed

This is sort of a tangent, but in regards to tuna, if you have a lot of it that you are going to vac seal, I find it is better to do it rough.
Clean up the fillets for the meal not for the seal. With all that red meat, you get a lot of oxidization that needs to be cut off for a nice end result. If you leave it rough, you will trim less in the end.

Then again, I'd have to go buy one to fillet it right now so grain of salt and all.


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## Salty Dog

For those that aren't that familiar with knives, sharpening, etc I can give a brief explanation of some basics that might help with the concepts.

A steel is supposed to straighten the "feather" of the blade. As you hit the edge of your knife on things, eg cutting board, the feather of the blade get bent off centre. If took a cross section of your blade it would look like a triangle. The point of the triangle being the edge of your blade is what effectively gets bent. Running your steel on either side alternately straightens the feather.

If you have a steel with some sort of abrasive on it like diamond dust, it works similar to a sharpening stone.

A sharpening stone puts tiny little serrations, (jagged edge like a steak knife only much much smaller - get your microscope out), in your knife, (micro-serrations). That's why people talk about cutting through an arc. It gives the tiny little teeth in your knife a chance to saw at whatever you are trying to cut. If you push straight down on your knife you are effectively just trying to drive a wedge through the food as opposed to slicing it.

The finer the grit of your stone, the smaller the micro-serrations, ie the more little teeth cutting. I recently got a 1000/6000 Japanese stone & it makes a huge difference over the basic stone I had.

The angle that you grind the edge of your knife makes a difference too, the finer the angle, the easier the knife slips through whatever you are cutting but it is more fragile. The harder your steel, the more capable it is of taking on the fine edge but a hard steel can also be more brittle & prone to chipping.

As with anything that involves high level engineering/manufacturing, it can get very technical - way above my head but generally the Japanese are considered the masters of making the hardest steel, blending it to make it durable & getting the absolute finest edge on a knife. The Germans are known for making a bit softer but durable workhorses of knives.

Here's a quick article that you might find useful. There is plenty of info on line if you are the obsessive type. If you really are an obsessive personality, you will probably end up with at least one Japanese knife, especially if you are into sashimi.
http://thesharpestknife.blogspot.com.au/

Hope some of the info helps someone out there.


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## Salty Dog

Here's another link that tells you more than you are ever likely to need to know about steel. If I am honest, I would probably only refer to it if I was thinking about buying a fancy new knife so that I could try & have an idea about the properties of the steel used.

http://zknives.com/knives/articles/knifesteelfaq.shtml


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## anselmo

Not sure if I missed it, but has anyone posted a link to how to sharpen knives properly?

I've sharpened plane blades to scary-sharp and cut throat razors to shaving sharpness, but could do with a primer on using a sharpening stone and steel properly on Chef/Kitchen knives
(unfortunately unlike Paulo, the Knife Dr isn't within walking distance for me!)


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## kayakone

anselmo said:


> Not sure if I missed it, but has anyone posted a link to how to sharpen knives properly?
> 
> I've sharpened plane blades to scary-sharp and cut throat razors to shaving sharpness, but could do with a primer on using a sharpening stone and steel properly on Chef/Kitchen knives
> (unfortunately unlike Paulo, the Knife Dr isn't within walking distance for me!)


Don't think so Nick. A primer would be great. Paulo explained use of a steel, and Liam his method, but a good video on diamond stone and diamond steel use would be excellent if added to this thread (I for one learn better from watching than reading).

Great thread Indie!


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## kayakone

nezevic said:


> I've just stickied this. An excellent thread that would be a real shame to lose into the never never.


Ditto...bookmarked (thanks Dodge for how to). A mine of info, and still digging. 

I think that second video Brad is what Paulo was taking about. Thanks. Must do some digging on using stones.


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## Salty Dog

This guy seems pretty serious about how to sharpen his knives with stone/s:


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## scater

Salty Dog said:


> This guy seems pretty serious about how to sharpen his knives with stone/s:


Bloody hell. Yep.


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## kayakone

Thanks Adam. What a great resource AKFF is!


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## Foxxy

For a bit of variation, look up the Japanese deba. They require a completely different filleting style, which looks more efficient flesh wise but less so time wise.

I have become a bit knife obsessed recently and strongly recommend the edge pro sharpening system and a ceramic steel for maintenance and finishing, if you want a seriously sharp knife.. And if you want to discover a new world of blade quality, check out the Japanese hand forged knives, just amazing! The kitchen knife forum is a way to discover the range out there and the range of knife obsessed weirdos out there!


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## scater

Looking forward to the write up Brad.


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## kayakone

indiedog said:


> Earlier this week I dropped in to The Knife Doctor to look at sharpening steels and to have a bit of a chat with the owner Mark about the entire knife selection/sharpening thing. I'm looking at doing up a bit of a summary (when I get a chance) of all we've gone over (including knife design, selection and sharpening) and Mark has kindly agreed to run his eye over this to ensure accuracy. It may take a few weeks (or more) but I think it will be worthwhile doing. Just looking at the steels on offer with the varying degrees of coarseness was an exercise. Happy to make this a wiki type thing so that others can have input.
> 
> While there, Mark gave me some in-depth training on how to use a steel and I watched him shave some paper with a wickedly sharp blade. My new Dexter Russell was nowhere near as sharp even without having been used at all yet. Apparently the quality of the "factory" edge on a knife can vary. After that I decided to leave my new knife there also to have that edge improved. Keen to see the difference when I pick it up.


There are skills and there are skills. We have much to learn. We catch fish, then we fillet them.

This has been one of the best threads for some time. Thanks Brad.


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## swabio

hmmmm i really lashed out and got myself an edge pro apex sharpening system.....

It is nowhere near as easy as they make out! trying to set the edge angle is a nightmare for me, but I am sure with much practice I shall get there!


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## bennoz

Salty Dog said:


> This guy seems pretty serious about how to sharpen his knives with stone/s:


that video is gold.
i dusted off my old whetstone and gave it another go - amazed how well the edge came up.
its not razor shaving hairs sharp yet, but ive only got a 400/1000 stone. keen to try the 4000


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## redgreg

after seeing Isobar cutting up a yellow fin last week with a Japanese fish knife, that was it I was in love until I saw the cost so I made one from the pic I had of his knife cheers Greg


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## Zed

redgreg said:


> View attachment 2
> View attachment 3
> after seeing Isobar cutting up a yellow fin last week with a Japanese fish knife, that was it I was in love until I saw the cost so I made one from the pic I had of his knife cheers Greg


That. Is. Awesome!
Mad skills to pay the bills!


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## mudpat

redreg, great job and I never would have thought of an alternate use for my old makita blades.
I use a few various sized deba's in my kitchen, they are a fabulous knife once you learn to use them properly.
Same question as indiedog, did you bevel one side only?


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## redgreg

just got to back to the knife thread after another 4hours PLUS working on my Makita knife with 1000grit wet & dry plus oiling the hard wood
And indiedog you say I can get a knife on line for $30.Shit I would have not made one, but I do like it ha ha
My first time at made a knife, two sides got bevelled ,why one side bevel I could recut it.(L or R hand) ?????
salti you tight arse $30 get one on line


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## keza

Nice job Redgreg.
Have you ever been in prison ?


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## anselmo

salticrak said:


> keza said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice job Redgreg.
> Have you ever been in prison ?
> 
> 
> 
> :lol: you shiv.
Click to expand...

FIFY


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## Happyas

I have a diamond sharpening stone as well as a couple of aluminium oxide stones. One I have had for well over 50 years. I have several filleting knives of various shapes including a Case filleting knife and a Furi boning knife. The Furi is a one piece knife with no join lines or laminations at the handle, so it is truly fish stink safe. They all sharpen well. I know oil is the recommended coolant/lubricant for hand sharpening, but I also use soapy water. it works well as it flushes and cleans the stone as you work and is no more slippery than oil. Keeping new exposed grit is important when sharpening as a loaded stone will cause slipping and will not sharpen. Usually the more expensive knives have the better steel as the more exotic the steel, the more it costs to make it. I must admit that I like the grit stones better than the diamond, but I fear I am a bit of a traditionalist. Used to make our own knives from power hack saw blades years ago. Red hard high speed steel. It rusted of course so you had to look after it. It was a bastard to sharpen but kept its edge for a while, but tended to be brittle. I was not able to temper the blade myself as being red hard steel it did not start to temper until after it was red hot!!!!


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## Zed

This thread keeps on giving. Thanks happyas.


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## Wrassemagnet

I did a class with Leigh Hudson (the guy in the video earlier in the thread from Chef's Armoury) and after I brought home the knives I'd sharpened during the lesson I amazed my kids by shaving the hair off the back of my hand with the Wusthof chef's knife we usually chop carrots with. I was hanging to do his class after walking in one day and handing over my every day pen knife, a Fallkniven U2, which I use for everything from opening letters to peeling fruit to cutting boxes to gutting and gilling fish. Jason (one of the guys who works in Leigh's shop) sharpened it in 5 minutes for $9. He not only sharpened it, he re-profiled it to a more useful shape. It has been 4 weeks now and it remains shaving sharp whereas before this I would get maybe a week out of it and then spend a good 30 to 40 minutes wrestling it into a semi decent sharpness using Fallkniven's recommended diamond stone and strop. The U2 is a premium knife made out of a premium laminated stainless steel and although the Wusthof is good German gear I don't know how long the edge I put on it will last but it really is amazing. For example it sliced through an apple in one swoop, cutting through several seeds cleanly and without displacing them and with absolutely no tearing. It slices thin spirals off A4 paper from the base all the way to the tip of the knife's edge. It's basically been transformed from a glorified chopper/cleaver into a really fun and versatile knife. I'm looking forward to trying out the deba and yanagiba I picked up there too.

In the class you learn how to sharpen anything including single bevel knives like the deba and yanagiba. It's so addictive to finally know how to sharpen easily and quickly. Leigh and his staff are a wealth of knowledge and I can't recommend his class highly enough. He tells me he will be uploading a series of more detailed how to videos soon but if you can get to one of his classes just do it. http://www.chefsarmoury.com/classes-and-events/sydney-classes/knife-sharpening-class/cat_81.html


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## Wrassemagnet

Brad I bought the 3 stones as I have a lot of knives that will need the 400 treatment but once they are up and running only the 1000 and the 3000 will be needed. 1000 may be all that's necessary for the pocket knife but the edge retention is better with the 3000 and all the kitchen knives including the Japanese need to finish with 3000 or higher. Apparently there are even 8000 to 10000 grit natural stones that give you a "black mirror" finish (drool). All the double bevel knives are finished with a leather-on-timber strop that has chromium (green) compound rubbed into it, the single edged knives are just finished on the stone. There is also a "sacrificial stone" which I forgot to buy which is rubbed into the finer grit stones to make a kind of lather that reduces the surface tension when you are polishing the flat side of the single bevel knives as they tend to kind of stick without it.

Leigh (and Jason) can hear and feel the quality of a steel. I developed a very rudimentary sense of what they meant at the end of the class after sharpening a stiff German, a flexible German, a H1 Spyderco and finally a blue steel deba and blue steel yanagiba. The blue steel is dense and hard and glassy and raises the finest thinnest smoothest burr, the H1 is kind of furry and the burr is easy to achieve but it's also hard to get it uniform as the slightest pressure in the wrong place or change in angle makes it kind of wavy along it's length - this is because it was the softest. The stiff German chef's knife was in between the blue steel and the H1, a lot closer to the H1 than the blue steel though. The flexible German was the hardest to sharpen evenly but with Leigh's gentle reminders about stance, posture, bending of knees and finger pressure we got there. I didn't get to my D2 stainless steel knife and didn't need to sharpen my white steel knife so I can't comment on those. We talked about the way steels are forged and how there is tension even in the best finished blade so that even a perfectly sharpened and straight blade will change with temperature and pressure and need to be resharpened after flying over from Japan. The way even where you rest your blades between quenching and heating changes them, how covering them with wet straw will mollify the cooling process and produce less tension in the steel, how there are perhaps 8 qualified sharpeners in the whole prefecture where Leigh gets his blue steel single bevel blades, how the owner and his idiosyncrasies when sharpening kind of train the knife into his own patterns and much much more. Oh and I came to understand why bolsters are a pain when sharpening with waterstones.


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## keza

I said I couldn't justify the cost of 3 stones so he said take the 400 and 1000 and that's what I've been using.

I spoke to him years ago about doing a class where we each bring in a kingfish and he would take us through every step of fish and knife prep.
That was when we could go out and guarantee getting a fish, if they run again like that I would still be keen to do the class.


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## Wrassemagnet

Have you done the knife prep class mate? If you have I reckon you would learn what you need using a deba on sambos in about half an hour and they aren't too hard to come by atm. Maybe if we can find a weather window and Leigh is happy to do an outdoor morning class somewhere northside specifically on deba filleting....we could get a few of us together...Just sayin'...


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## keza

Fillet and sashimi was the plan. 
I think he did them at his shop but not sure as the kings went off and we sort of forgot about it.


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## keza

This must be a sort of knife sexpo
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Internat ... 6214479747

This weekend and in Sydney if you have a knife fetish.


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## MichellePBabcock

There are also electric fillet knives that can work just as well as a fixed blade


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