# Kayak fishing and other fishing boats



## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

It's not uncommon to see comments on the forum about our coexistence with other fishing boats, so I'd thought I'd start a thread about it.

As I see it, some fishing spots get heavily congested and over time so fishers have developed an etiquette for dealing with it. Basic rules are not sitting in someone's burley trail when they got there before you, not anchoring up so close to someone as to interfere with their casting and certainly not travelling between another boat and what they are casting at, generally some obvious structure. Any others.

There is absolutely no reason for us to not respect these rules as there is no reason for us not to be granted the same respect in return by boaters. If we are anchored, our burley trails should be respected as should our casting ranges and targets. Note that I have found it more common for other yakkers, both fishing and non-fishing, to disrespect such rules than other boaters.

There will always be some boaters who think they have a 200nm limit around their boat and behave aggressively towards other boats, yaks or not. Not a lot to be done except ignore them.

The one situation I've been in that I feel ambivalent about and unsure of the etiquette is the conflict between drift fishing and anchoring. Many is the time I've been working a drift when a boat has come and anchored in it. I've never made an issue of it, prefering to get on with fishing and not really having an argument over someone's right to anchor up versus their discourtesy. Maybe they didn't realise what was going on. On the other hand, my drifting will sometimes take me through someones burley trail. I don't see any reason for the trail maker to get worked up if I'm not close enough to foul their line and I don't do anything to hang in the trail.

Finally, I think the issue of boaters not respecting yak fishers is one of them accepting us as other boats. The more we are out there and part of the general fishing environment, the less we will be seen as not belonging there so the less trouble we will get. I certainly do not intend avoiding any fishig ground because other fishers may get upset. I'd much prefer to pull good fish within their clear view 

What do you think?


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

I'm pretty much of the same opinion as you Peril - I try to observe others around me and ensure that I have a relatively 'stress free' fishing experience - after all, that's what I'm there for.

Re the 'competition for space' issue, I feel that other boaties can see us and are aware that we are there, however they feel that we are of little consequence and they have the ultimate right of way on the water. Its not that they will deliberatley try to run their boats at us (unless you are SBD/Avayak) but I do get the feeling that they think we are just 'mucking around' and 'surely couldn't be seriously fishing out of that thing'..

As such they probably feel that they (as serious fishos) shouldn't have to put up with clowns in kayaks getting in their way.

I guess it's a little bit like the relationship between cars and pushbikes on busy roads - car drivers are aware the bikes are there (hopefully) but see them as a bit out of place and a bit of a nuisance. They probably feel that bike riders should be in the park or in a bike lane, rather than barrelling down the highway competing for lane space. Both parties have the right to be there, but its not going to change the drivers perception.

All we can do as a group is to try and raise awareness about our abilities - articles in fishing magazines (aka Paulos Marlin) have helped to raise awareness and inform other fishos about what we can do/catch. However the majority of boaties are still going to be unaware that we are just as keen as them and in some cases, probably better fishos and more experienced on the water.

Lets not kid ourselves - Kayak fishing is still a novelty, as evidenced by the strange looks most of us get almost everytime we paddle out and the enquiries we get back at the boat ramp. Until it becomes a 'common' activity then we'll always get some aggro guys in 'real fishing boats' that want us to clear 'their' water so they can get on with catching fish..

My suggestion - just quietly paddle off, smile to yourself and think, "I'm having fun and that's all that matters'..


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## sbd (Aug 18, 2006)

Generally speaking, I've found other recreational boat fishos to be interested & fairly tolerant of yaks. I've been invited into their berley trails, and once they see the gear on the yak they're supportive (if incredulous). At the ramp, it's not unusual to get a small crowd of boaties clustered around asking questions, and I've been asked "where can I get one?" more than a few times (yes Pauly, I send them to you ;-) ). I'm sure there are a minority of boaties that are aggressive toward kayakers - I agree that raising our profile as serious fishos can only help.

As for the weekend warriors in their expensive cruisers (not you Ken), generally I have less favourable impressions. They pass close by at 30kt, go directly behind me when it's glaringly obvious I'm trolling, and don't share their naked young lovelies. They also seem to think that copious quantities of alcohol are necessary to enjoy a day on the water. This doesn't apply to all of them, but the dickheads stick in my mind.

As for wankers in tugs, they'd better hope I don't meet up with them on land.


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## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

I totally agree with both comments but I generally respect the burley trail by crossing the bow of the boat, leaving heaps of space for thier anchor. By doing this you're respecting them and also get to drift the entire outer edge of thier trial without too many hassles.

Boats are often loaded with a few people while yakkers often go out in groups each on an individual vessel. There may be two motor "boats" out, but by the time we get there on yaks, six boats are effectively fishing the same area.

The only thing we have in our favor in this instance is the Stealth factor. Boaties are generally OK with us because we're not spooking the fish with engine noise. If we stay quiet on the water - i.e yelling across the sea to each other, and do what Peril and DaveyG said, we'll maintain respect.

This is only about other fishing boats at fishing spots, not weekend warriors.


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## pavariangoo (Mar 1, 2008)

Agreed mate, there are enough problems in the world without argueing over fishing space. I have found there are inconsiderate people on boats and kayaks, best to avoid and get on with fishing. If there is a place where there is alot of boating activity I tend to avoid it regardless of whether I "CAN" go there or not, not much fun in fishing knowing your in the way. That said, people need to use common sense and realise they do not own the water, the issue is egos more then boats and kayaks, but you are spot on with what you say. Alot of people do what they are "allowed" to do knowing full well that it will put someone in danger. These are the kinds of idiots that will boat/kayak in areas just knowing "I have the right/right of way" when common sense would say "sure you have right of way, but hes 15ft up and can't see you, give him a minute to pass".

Kristian


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## LatelyLux (May 6, 2008)

I think that we all just need to be awaer of everything around us. Most boaties will be somewhat respectfull of other crafts on the water, but you do get the nutjobs.
I take out the inlaws 43ft Riv' for the weekend every so often and absolutely love it. I allways thought I was being a very courteous driver, slowing down and leaving some distance between me and smaller craft when I passed. Well... I went out on a friends yacht for a day trip on the broadwater and now realise just how much they are at the mercy of these larger boats. Their yacht isn't a tiny one, they go out for weekenders with their daughter in it, but WOW did it rock and roll when the bigger boats went flying by. Now when I'm in the Riv', I make sure I double the distance and halve the speed when I pass those smaller boats as I know what they are going through.

Now that I'm getting into yak fishing, that goes double. I'm more at the mercy of the bigger boats and really need to keep an eye out.

Brett


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## DGax65 (Jun 7, 2006)

I'd agree with Peril's Rules of Kayak Fishing Etiquette. Sound common sense advise.

But sometimes it just gets too crowded......








...and you have to make the best of a bad situation. I just try to avoid the crowds; even if it means I'm not going to be on a WFO spot.


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## hairymick (Oct 18, 2005)

I'm with Doug on this one.

I don't fish offshore much anymore.

I like to work the gutters and back channels as much as I can, where the stinkers can't get to. - out of sight - out of mind sort of thing.

My fish are all filleted and on ice, also out of sight, before I came in and nobody is any the wiser. I tend not to advertise results much anymore.

I don't play well in crowds. :twisted:


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

I'm a bit with Hairy Mick on this one - except for I do the offshore thing... I much prefer to be in a quiet area with few boats. Or a corner of the harbour or up a creek somewhere. Just being out there in it with just the sounds of the ocean and nature is great - but the noise of an engine always seems to get my back when I hear it approach - its just a possible danger that I may have to deal with...... I dont think that speed boats and yaks mix well together and if there are any misshaps I fear that the yakker will come off worse. The car driver and cyclist analogy is a good one.......... I used to cycle as my main mode of transport.... drivers can sometimes miss you in their mirrors... easily done.... the same I think can apply to boaties. Not that I have anything against boaties......... like i said I just dont think we mix well together............


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## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

I generally don't have any issue's with other fishos just the weekend warriors that make crossing the narrow channels up here as hazardous prospect. I have even had a couple of the local cletus's zoom towards the kayaker to spray me with water. I think this sort of behaviour comes from the amount of yaks on the water up here, only a few fish but most are paddlers and the two heads don't like them.

Other than that one thing a lot of tournaments get complaints about is people dropping / cutting in on a drift, basically its a big no no. Other than that agree with perils stuff 100%

Cheers Dave


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## hairymick (Oct 18, 2005)

I'm surprised nobody here has had a rant about bloody jet-skis yet :shock: God, I hate those basterds. The low fore-headed, slack jawed, vacant stare type who this type of pox usually attracts. Ya can see the half wits on just about any waterway of a weekend screaming round the place on their fat blow flies.

They are bad enough here, I can only imagine what they must be like on busy waterways like Sydney & the Gold Coast.


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Dont really see the Jet Skis in Sydney Harbour or the like ????? SO thank god havent had to deal with those !!!


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## Cuda (Sep 18, 2006)

Thankfully I haven't come across any weekend warriors or Neanderthal types with prominent foreheads / brows whilst out in my yak - so far :roll: Peril's on the money as far as etiquette goes and I guess I don't mind one or two stinkboats around just in case I ever get into any trouble - hopefully I could count on some assistance, although fingers crossed that it never happens 8)


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## pavariangoo (Mar 1, 2008)

hairymick said:


> I'm surprised nobody here has had a rant about bloody jet-skis yet :shock: God, I hate those basterds. The low fore-headed, slack jawed, vacant stare type who this type of pox usually attracts. Ya can see the half wits on just about any waterway of a weekend screaming round the place on their fat blow flies.
> 
> They are bad enough here, I can only imagine what they must be like on busy waterways like Sydney & the Gold Coast.


Gold Coast, mate, :shock: Some of these blokes fly past at amazing speeds, within 7 or 8 metres of children swimming. These people that put lives in danger are idiots I have no use for them. Amazing that if someone where to drive down the sidewalk at a rediculous speed, they would be in alot of trouble (and rightly so) yet jetskis enter the areas where swimmers are and continue to do so. They are a huge danger, whether it be flying past swimmers or cutting infront of boats. Riding in their wakes, to me, at the distance they are at, is just like tailgating (another thing illegal on roads, yet jetskis do it on water). There have been incidents here where jetskis have hit children, and I think more needs to be done to ensure peoples safety.

Kristian


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## DGax65 (Jun 7, 2006)

Always keep a nice. long jig stick at the ready for throwing iron. Dual purpose - you can toss the iron at breezing yellow tail (kingies) on the surface, or you can chuck one towards an annoying jet skier as a warning measure. Nothing like the sound of a heavy lure clanking off the fiberglass hull of a jet ski to warm your heart :twisted:


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## onemorecast (Apr 17, 2006)

Agree with all the commonsense expressed here and I abide by it when I fish.

The exception is in the upper reaches of Cowan Creek. That place is mine, I own it and I make the rules there. Currently the rules are:

· You may fish anywhere in the creek except for in my favorite spots, or near my favorite spots as the fish in those spots (considered my fish) have the right to swim around a bit and not be harassed by you.
· My favorite spots change frequently, so you need to ring me each week so that I may inform you which 50 metres of the creek is actually available to be fished by the general public. 
· Non-fishing kayakers are permitted on the creek so long as they don't dress or behave like the 6 am Middle Harbour non-fishing kayak wankers
· Non fishing kayakers are not permitted to speak to me while I am in stealth fishing mode.
· Non-fishing kayakers should assume I am always in stealth fishing mode.
· Non Fishing kayakers may however speak quietly to me to express their admiration of my fishing prowess.
· Stink boats may use the waterway as frequently as they wish and are encouraged to travel as fast as they like and should not concern themselves with tides or submerged objects within the creek.
· At no time will I exit my kayak to assist in draggin stinkboats out of mud banks or flats. This is what tides are for. 
· As owner of this creek, I can change the rules as I see fit

This pretty much aligns with Perils ideas doesn't it? ;-)


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

all good points here (well up until the last post  ).
When i started mixing it with other boats on the harbour, i went and got my boat licence so i at least new what i was talking about and meant to do.
I would recommend this for all yakkers as a safety measure. ( can't remember any of it now but i'm sure no one else does either ).
I have found MOST boat fisherman to be fine on the water and i often engage them in chat as you never know when you may want them to help you.
Boats without fisherman are usually the ones that i have trouble with and are the ones most likely to run you down.

Raising the profile of the yak does seem to be the key and gaining our rightful status as ELITE fisherman is the challenge.
I guess getting yaks into more fishing comps and more presence in boat and fishing magazines is the way up.

could be the birth of the AKFF PR working group.


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## Swamp (Nov 20, 2007)

Common sense should prevail but unfortunately there are a lot of people who don't seem to have any.
I generally give everyone a wide berth and hope they will do the same in return. 
I tend to let people know when they are too fast, too close, scaring the fish. (yelling and fist shaking)

From experience as a small boat fisher in the NT (where there are no boat licenses) there are way more boating idiots.


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

They should ban that jet boat thing !!!!! And there should be more cappucino boats....... and an ice cream one... and for sure a coldy boat :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Ive yet to meet Mchale - I thought he was one of Johnnys minor hallucinations !!!! Unless he's been a mass hallucination......................


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## pavariangoo (Mar 1, 2008)

kraley said:


> I hate that friggin jetboat almost.......no, JUST as much as I hate McHale at Balmoral.
> 
> Complete. Utter. Tools.


I have given that boat alot of thought, and it occured to me, both roads and waters have rules for safe vehicle operation.... On the road you could not sell a service offering to hoon people around in a jetcar, yet on water you can pay to be hooned around in a jetboat,,........ doesn't seem right does it :shock:

kris


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## fishydude (Dec 30, 2007)

I am probably more considerate of others than I expect or need in return. I don't appreciate getting messed about but after all is said and done, I'm yak fishing. How upset can I possibly get? I am actually more inclined to give someone a 200m exclusion zone by choice as I don't have a clue about their ability and I enjoy the peace and serenity( am I getting old?). Agree also with comments regarding the interest in a well fitted out yak diverting any ill will. Have never had any real issues with folk except the occasional disjointed nose when you are hammering the squid and the mover-inner-ers get jack didly squat. Strangely enough jet-skis have always given me a wide berth except when passing me by to get to or away from the beach and they have still given a wide- ish berth and gone slowly. Maybe it's because the sail is so easily seen. As for divers, I have probably had more contact as diver with fishos than the other way round, and I like to give the fisher person a wide berth as I understand fishing. A good diver (moves slowly with minimal disturbance of the water and slow steady breathing and limited use of inflator hose) won't generally disturb the fish too much and you are largely ignored by fish unless they are looking at you as something to nibble on or (sadly) be fed by. Bad divers will bulldoze the bottom scare fish with large movements and abrupt bubble explosions and the like. A friendly diver will probably if asked retrieve anchors or gear for you. On behalf of good and well mannered divers everywhere, We're not all like that...lol. On the other hand I've had squid jags cast at me for supposedly scaring off the squid, when I can see the squid 10m on the other side of the jetty, looking very unafraid of me. They will actually try to grab your torch at night sometimes. Sometimes when I get out I like to approach the people who are trying not to give me daggers and show them exactly where to cast and watch them hookup straight away....lol. Wholeheartedly agree with Kraley, having right of way is all very well but doesn't aid you much when you've just been slammed. 
Cheers
Mike


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## pavariangoo (Mar 1, 2008)

It was me who said that last bit :shock: :lol:


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## Yakwannabe (May 11, 2008)

I reckon this is a good subject - I am yet to get a Yak (and I will) but given the portable and flexible nature of Yaks I presume there is a bit of jealousy between boaters and yakkers. I found the analogy between cycling and cars, and kayaking and boating interesting.
I cycle for fun and fitness and as a cyclist you:
* occupy a lot less room on the road than a car,
* you are generally slower than a car on the road, although quicker when it is congested,
* you are less visible, or at least some drivers do not seem to see you,
* you are generally more flexible and
* in a bingle cyclists generally come off worse - I can say this from bitter experience. 
Some drivers seem to dislike cyclists (ie "pay your registration!") and I suppose some boaters may be the same.
Some of the keys to safe riding:
* is being visible, 
* not changing direction without signalling, 
* make eye contact with drivers, and 
* treating moving cars with great suspicion!
*When I get a yak I will think like a cyclist!* :shock: :?


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## fishydude (Dec 30, 2007)

kraley said:


> Was he in the wrong? Sure - wouldn't have mattered much if he had killed me. Thankfully, everyone was fine (outback took on tinny and at least it was a draw).


Lol..It was both of you, although yours would have been closest to a direct quote. Wholeheartedly agree with the both of you though. Better to be alive to give someone daggers than have them apologising to your relatives. On the other hand I won't tamely give up my prime spot because someone else wants to push me out. A wise person once said," It's a fine line between pleasure and pain." :shock: They also said something like," You done it once, you can do it again." But I think we can ignore that bit. :shock: :lol: :lol: 
@Yakwannabe Yup, good thinking I reckon. Think like a cyclist or motorcyclist. The thing is though to get run over in a yak you have to be directly in front of a boat (generally...unless manouvreing) with a lot more room to move and much less congestion. If you make yourself easy to see you SHOULD be ok. They should see you from yonks away. So I reckon you should be safer than a cyclist if this makes you feel better...lol. :lol:

Cheers
Mike


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

----

QlpoOTFBWSZTWadAY48AADRfgAAQUOP9+pyDGKq/9//gMADjZEVPxRk0EaBoGjEME9QwmEaDVT8pgFGxEAGgAAAADVNkUB6T1PU0aMEyA0BoaMh6SIIIFM5KIDwwOEbvzK70+lskRA6OJFUhNjViAJrASbvM3BU8cylAEs0I6G9MlYSuecqbaJ56aYg7i/BqjYgEFpKcY5zlbod0budsSQl7XXv1G6aMbOtZsUIDYOaCl5YPLzpAG8IiJxZ3tFmNo2KvLYfiNIawA8Bgwxv0xhQgwmAWqgkacIGMlv9FgioUg2uKehSUGlwKXRmYxgKlchCIfCERN9itdVSHgpMUKK3tRvvstMURTsRzMyiTkiuDaDNsxAnicHRhKV0X3GpEiNagu4XckU4UJCnQGOPA


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## Guest (May 26, 2008)

Nice one Red,

Classic :lol:

Cheers


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## spottymac (Aug 29, 2005)

What are the rules for Kayaks out on the water ways. :? :? :? 
A kayak is a non powered vessel the same as a rowing boat and a sailing boat.
Don't powered boat have to give way to non power boats,


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

kraley said:


> spottymac said:
> 
> 
> > Don't powered boat have to give way to non power boats,
> ...


I can think of three:

* to Sydney Harbour ferries
* to large vessels in shipping lanes
* to vessels that haven't seen you


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## Dodge (Oct 12, 2005)

spottymac said:


> and a sailing boat.
> Don't powered boat have to give way to non power boats,


Stu this is an exact quote from the 2008 boating safety guide from Qld Transport.



> _A power boat generally gives way to sail unless the sailing vessel is in the process of overtaking it. However, don't expect large or less manoeurable boats under power to give way. *All small craft should give large boats a wide berth*_


Anyone trying to enforce rules in a kayak is some sort of a dickhead in my opinion, as in a collision situation I have no doubt who will come off second best ;-)


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## Sunhobie (Jun 22, 2006)

spottymac said:


> What are the rules for Kayaks out on the water ways. :? :? :?
> A kayak is a non powered vessel the same as a rowing boat and a sailing boat.
> Don't powered boat have to give way to non power boats,


All power boats have to slow down to 6kts within 30m of all anchored vessels. If you are underway in a kayak, the power boat can legally power right past you unless it produces a dangerous wake. (unfortunate but true) If you are anchored, you are entitled to the same wide berth as all other anchored vessels. Considerate boaties slow down near kayakers.


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## Astro (Nov 27, 2006)

Sunhobie said:


> Considerate boaties slow down near kayakers.


not many..if any up this way.....


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## johnny (Aug 12, 2007)

Been sworn at by big boat ....trolled over and tangled/ignored by multiple 5.3 racing skis....McHale hooning waves at me when i motion to slow down/or warning me/catching me....fairy charging me...wankers swerving at me...tools taking my spot/drift cause i'm not a real boat...or hoon to the spot i took 30 minutes to get to...it goes on and on...


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## johnny (Aug 12, 2007)

AND DIVE BOATS rudely taking Southerly out at Longy last weekend...dive boats hoon me-the've got bad attitudes


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## Sunhobie (Jun 22, 2006)

I should have said that ONLY considerate boaties slow down for kayakkers. The rest think they are obeying the rules.


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

Sunhobie said:


> spottymac said:
> 
> 
> > What are the rules for Kayaks out on the water ways. :? :? :?
> ...


This may be state dependent. The following rule applies in NSW:

*Distance Off (Vessels Other Than PWC)*
When travelling at a speed of 10 knots or more you must keep well away from people and objects in the water. There are minimum distances you must keep from obstacles. If you cannot keep these distances you must slow down to under 10 knots. The closer you get, the slower you must go.

You must keep:

30 metres from any person or anything in the water when you are travelling at 10 knots or more 
60 metres from a person in the water, if you are towing a water skier or aquaplaner 
100 metres from a dredge or work barge, if you are travelling faster than 4 knots.


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

Peril said:


> You must keep:
> 
> 30 metres from any person or anything in the water when you are travelling at 10 knots or more


looks like i better kept my trolling speed down then


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