# PFD1 - which one?



## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

OK, so it looks like some of us who intend to compete in the upcoming ABT Bream Series need to get ourselves a PFD1 as PFD2's aren't allowed.

So, for those of you who own PFD1's what have you found are the best ones/styles and which ones represent best value for $$ (keeping in mind that most of us will only vere use these in the ABT comps).

Pros/Cons?

Ta


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## Marty75 (Oct 23, 2007)

Hey Davey,

How about just one of these for the purpose of the comps, total outlay $13 - http://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?cat=144&item=19992&intAbsolutePage=1#

I've used one before off a stink boat when crossing a bar and even though they're not the most comfortable pfd in the world I don't think they'd be 'that' bad for the comp. Are these even allowed?

Even though I won't be competing, if I was I'd be getting something sililar as I'm more than happy with my current pfd (type 2) for 99% of my other yak fishing outings.

Just my $0.02

Marty


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

yep that's a definite option...


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

edit - just noticed an ad in todays Telegraph for inflatable 'wild country' pfd1's at Rays outdoors for $75


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## Feral (Oct 18, 2008)

Lazybugger said:



> I have no idea on this one either Davey. Might be worth noting in Qld (and most likely all states as PFD's are made to Australian standards) that you need to get an inflateable PFD serviced annualy and need to keep the receipts!
> 
> http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/resources/fil ... d_faqs.pdf
> 
> Might be worth taking into account the cost of refill kits or servicing in any purchase decision.


You can service them yourself if you wish, some manufacturers recommended intervals is also 2 years, not 12 months. If you service them yourself you just need to keep a log book. Its just making sure there is no corrosion, the canister is tight, and it stays inflated for 24 hours (manually inflated through the tube unless you want to buy another cansiter!). On a yak in Qld you are not required to have a PFD, so there is no need to service if you dont want to.


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## kayaksportsmark (Apr 1, 2009)

None,
tell them to shove their ridiculous requirement up their ass. 
Any real kayaker will know a pfd type one either foam or inflatable is NOT suitable for kayaking. 
Snub the comp until the organisors come to their senses.

Edit: For those who have taken offense to my comment, I do apologise. Perhaps I could have worded it differently. I do stand by my comment however and that the needs of a pfd for a kayak are different to those of a larger vessel.


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## Buff (Dec 31, 2005)

Have just got my second PDF1, the first is a standard inflatable one (Marlin brand) I got from Whitworths for my first ABT Classic and this I use out in the yak, it was reasonably priced at $78 and very comfortable especially as SA regulations require you wear one in a yak at all times ( a few people down the Coorong last year were hit with $160+ fines for not wearing there's).

As much as it is comfortable on real hot days it does start to get a bit hot with it on.
Was going through Anaconda a couple a weeks a go while they were having there standard by-weekly 20% _sale_ :roll: and spotted a Shakespeare Stearns Inflatable "PDF1" Belt










You wear it as a belt with the bag in front and once deployed just flip it over your head.
As yet I haven't tried it on the water and as I mostly fish sheltered waters it should do the job for those hot summer days ;-)


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## solatree (May 30, 2008)

Davey G said:


> which ones represent best value for $$ (


The ones under the QANTAS seat ! ;-)


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## paffoh (Aug 24, 2006)

Mark, lets keep this open to some healthy guidance on the subject of 'Which one?' in regards to fishing the tournaments.

http://www.cassellmarine.com.au/p/48002 ... onomy.html

Have used them for a number of years and would continue to, unfortunately my cannisters have expired so need to be replaced. I have a spare set of two that will be able to lend out to members fishing ABT events who cant afford to buy one at short notice, cost of a cannister is only $30 to recharge jacket and meet compliance.

http://www.cassellmarine.com.au/p/58217 ... e-kit.html


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## GregL (Jul 27, 2008)

kayaksportsmark said:


> None,
> tell them to shove their ridiculous requirement up their ass.
> Any real kayaker will know a pfd type one either foam or inflatable is NOT suitable for kayaking.
> Snub the comp until the organisors come to their senses.


WTF?
Mate, are you serious? :shock: :shock: 
I've read some crap on forums before, but that post takes the biscuit.
As a 'Kayaking skills instructor', I'm pretty damned shocked (putting it very politely) that you of all people would come out with such a obtuse comment in regards to the safety and well being of kayakers during a commercial event.
Please take the time to inform the masses who regularly wear PFD 1's and 2's when kayaking why they aren't suitable, and tell us what we should be wearing - we would love to hear from a 'real kayaker'.

If you claim PFD 1 is NOT suitable, then do us a favour and pass your suggestion on to the insurance companies who are the ones to have forced the PFD1 rule in the ABT series (fact), rather than take a very poor and lame swing at the organisers (also FACT).

Other than that, pull your head in.


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## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

For the PFD 1 rule i don't like it but have a inflatable and wore it in the last comp, no problems. I prefer my trek ultra pfd2 but thems the breaks.

The inflatables aren't perfect but given the comps are on inland / inshore waters I think were pretty safe either way.

As Paff said lets keep this one on the straight an narrow.

Cheers Dave


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## wayner (Jan 7, 2009)

got one of the new hobie PFD1 last weekend.cost a bit more than the others but what i like the best is the pockets on the jacket.can hold a heap of gear in the pockets which i find very handy and the main reason why i paid the extra and got one of these...

wayne


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## Dodge (Oct 12, 2005)

GregL said:


> If you claim PFD 1 is NOT suitable, then do us a favour and pass your suggestion on to the insurance companies who are the ones to have forced the PFD1 rule in the ABT series (fact), rather than take a very poor and lame swing at the organisers (also FACT).


Greg
There were 100 entrants at the 2009 Wivenhoe Kayak Fishing Convention and all were covered by insurance, and PFD 2 was acceptable....so it is not the fault of the insurance industry but rather an organizers decision.


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

Yep - I also agree it's a stupid rule...but its a rule and we've already gnashed this out in another thread and it seems that ABT aren't budging .

Therefore if you want to compete in the ABT events (which i and many others do) then we need to wear a PFD1. There doesn't seem to have been much thought put into it as 99% of us wear kayak specific and Australian standards approved PFD2's and the problem is that this will be the only time a PFD1 is ever required. Unfortunately this means that ABT are going to lose a fair chunk of potential entrants as people simply can't justify forking out another $100 for 6 hours of fishing...

Anyhoo - heres a suggestion for ABT which might help mend the bridge and attract back some of the punters who've decided not to compete...

Why don't you boys get a bunch of suitable kayaking PFD1's and hire these out at each daily event? Surely you have a contact who can supply 20 or 30 and any cost involved will be a hell of a lot less than the amount of business you're going to lose if you don't do it.. Who knows, you might even make a few extra dollars and either way you'll certainly win back some goodwill...These PFD1's can then be used at all events.

Just a suggestion in the interests of growing the sport and growing the attraction/popularity of your events. Up to you.


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## bigtez (Apr 14, 2009)

I am surprised that none of the PFD companies have come up with a PFD1 designed specifically for kayaks. If designed right I am sure there would be plenty of kayakers who would prefer to have their head held out of the water in the event of an accident that left them unconcious(s). 
Personally, inflatables are fantastic for allowing movement in most directions, however do you go for an auto or manual inflation? You need to be concious(s) to activate an inflatable and an auto would inflate when you don't need it too. One of the kayak PFD2s with a head support would be the way to go, if they made them.

Terry

I think I have a couple of spare PFD1s that I would be happy to loan out at the ABT tournaments I attend.


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## kayaksportsmark (Apr 1, 2009)

GregL said:


> kayaksportsmark said:
> 
> 
> > None,
> ...


GregL,
my apologies that you have taken such strong offense to my comment regarding pfd type 1, I have put an edit in my post for anyone else who reads it and might feel as offended as you have. 
I am wondering if you got the full meaning of my post however, as it seems you may have thought I meant all pfd's. Quoting your reply "Please take the time to inform the masses who regularly wear PFD 1's and 2's when kayaking why they aren't suitable, and tell us what we should be wearing" Did you think I meant Pfd1 AND Pfd2 and that competitors should wear nothing? If you have then rest assured I do believe a PFD should be worn, however a pfd for kayaking has different needs to a pfd for a yacht or a motor vessel, that is why pfds for kayaking are pfd type2 (or 3)
I see from subsequent posts that others' have addressed your concerns regarding insurance companies and the organisors of the event.
Mark

Davey G, your idea about the organisor having Type1 pfds available is a good one.


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## Jeffo (Sep 10, 2006)

BCF currently have Marlin inflatable PFD 1 for $79.

I was thinking about getting one for the river & for Rock fishing

Cheers

Jeffo


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## Feral (Oct 18, 2008)

I pretty much wear my PFD1 inflatable all the time when I am on the yak. Dont even notice it is on me.

I used to carry a blockie before I got the inflateable, wouldn't wear it though.


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## GregL (Jul 27, 2008)

kayaksportsmark said:


> GregL,
> my apologies that you have taken such strong offense to my comment regarding pfd type 1, I have put an edit in my post for anyone else who reads it and might feel as offended as you have.
> I am wondering if you got the full meaning of my post however, as it seems you may have thought I meant all pfd's. Quoting your reply "Please take the time to inform the masses who regularly wear PFD 1's and 2's when kayaking why they aren't suitable, and tell us what we should be wearing" Did you think I meant Pfd1 AND Pfd2 and that competitors should wear nothing? If you have then rest assured I do believe a PFD should be worn, however a pfd for kayaking has different needs to a pfd for a yacht or a motor vessel, that is why pfds for kayaking are pfd type2 (or 3)
> I see from subsequent posts that others' have addressed your concerns regarding insurance companies and the organisors of the event.
> Mark


Hi Mark,
My apologies too for being very harsh in my response. I thankyou for explaining the post, and I hope there are no hard feelings. Cheers. eace:

As for the other comments in regard to the insurance - well, put it this way, as you all know, I am fortunate enough to be part of the Hobie team, and therefore I speak regularly with Steve, and when the PFD1 was introduced, I like many others questioned "WHY?" - the difference being that I was speaking directly to him, and the answer came directly from him.
I am sure you will appreciate that I do not want to be drawn into absolute specifics of the conversation, but please take my honest word (as someone who is simply trying to mediate) that it was not in the hands of the organisers of this series to choose what form of PFD would be acceptable - and speculation that there was a choice simply is not the case.
Obviously they want to attract as many participants to the Series as possible, so bear in mind that it simply isn't in the interests of the ABT or Hobie (in the slightest) to _force_ a rule that would potentially see people not compete because they have to buy a new PFD.

These my friends, are the facts of the matter.
It does suck for some, and that is unfortunate - but thems the truth, and we have to abide by the rules.

On a side note, with the legislation around salt water kayaking getting closer by the day, I foresee that it won't be long before we all have to wear PFD1's no matter if we are fishing in a comp, or fishing socially, so we might as well get used to the idea.

Regards,
Greg


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

OK, paydirt...

Went into Whitworths today and they have the Burke Matrix ( I think) vets style pfd1 at $25 off -normally $80 now $55. THis is a standard foam filled jobbie (not inflatable). Didn't try it on but it looks to have good size arm holes and is not too bulky.

Also went into BIG W and they have the 'ET' brand PFD1 (foam filled vest style) which have a standard price of $54. I did try one of these on - quite comfy, not too bulky and again good arm holes allowing plenty of movement. This one was the closets to a PFD2 that I've seen and I think kayaking would be fine in this vest (if you can get past the giant ET logo on the front of it!) Anyone know when the next BIGW 30% off sale is on??


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## kas (May 5, 2009)

Davey G said:


> Yep - I also agree it's a stupid rule...but its a rule and we've already gnashed this out in another thread and it seems that ABT aren't budging .
> 
> Therefore if you want to compete in the ABT events (which i and many others do) then we need to wear a PFD1. There doesn't seem to have been much thought put into it as 99% of us wear kayak specific and Australian standards approved PFD2's and the problem is that this will be the only time a PFD1 is ever required. Unfortunately this means that ABT are going to lose a fair chunk of potential entrants as people simply can't justify forking out another $100 for 6 hours of fishing...
> 
> ...


Il second that one Davie, 
$50.00 membership fee
$50.00 per days fishing
$50.00-$80.00 for a vest
That could be in excess of$200.00 fot the weekend!


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## koich (Jul 25, 2007)

Do they actually check them for preventative maintenence?

If hobie/abt were to go to this measure to make people wear them then they also need make sure they are fully functional, maintained in date and comply to the Australian Standards or else they won't have a legal leg stand on with the insurance company.


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

As previously mentioned you can pick up the inflatable ones for about $80 on special.

If ABT were to buy, say 20 of these and rent them out to the blokes who don't have one at each event for $10-$15 a day or $20-$25 a weekend then they'd only need to rent them out 4 or 5 times to recoup their outlay. If they rented them out more than that then they'd actually be in front.

Paying $10 or $15 to rent one for a day is a lot more appealing than forking out $80-$100 for something you'll never use again, and would probably mean that the guys who can't justify the extra $75-$100 for the PFD will turn up (adding another $50/$100 each entry fee into ABT's coffers)....


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

i'm thinking the $12 one and then i can write in big black letter "*NOT SUITABLE FOR KAYAKING*

How do the inflatables go after they have had a hook in them ?
my pdf seems to attract hooks. The trouble with the inflatable is that you wouldn't know it leaked until you needed it.


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## ButterflyKisses (Oct 4, 2009)

keza said:


> How do the inflatables go after they have had a hook in them ?
> my pdf seems to attract hooks. The trouble with the inflatable is that you wouldn't know it leaked until you needed it.


Oh Crap! I didn't even think of that... :shock: Anyone know??? I'm thinkin bout getting an inflatable for my BF (cause he's stubborn and doesn't want to wear a pfd full stop) but I'm going to make him... 

I've been researching PFD's for a couple of days and just like everything else it's just too confusing...
But just like most of my other questions I usually find my answers somewhere on the forum...


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## ButterflyKisses (Oct 4, 2009)

Well I went out today and bought an inflatable PDF... Sorry PFD (always getting that wrong! :lol: ) it's a burke brand... (The red one's )

I asked the guy I spoke to about the fishing hooks puncturing the material and firstly he said "I've never been asked that before" but then he showed me the fabric which is thick and the layers the hook would have to go through and IMHO I don't think it'd be much of a problem... unless someone deliberatly stabbed it then it may be a problem...

But in the interests of research I have decided to test it... on my BF... :twisted: I will puncture his PFD with hooks until I can see holes and then get him to put it on, jump into the river and activate it and then time how long it takes for him to sink... :twisted: ;-) jokes! I love him too much for that... ;-)

Hope this helps (probly not  but thought I'd let you know all the same)


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## skorgard (Oct 6, 2007)

Sorry to ask a dumb question - what are the differences between PFDs 1,2,and 3?


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## bigtez (Apr 14, 2009)

PFD1: Hi Vis colour, will make you float on your back and support your head.
PFD2: Hi Vis colour, will only ensure you float, won't keep your face out of the water if you are unconcious
PFD3: As for PFD2 but not high vis colours, may also provide less floatation.


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## kayaksportsmark (Apr 1, 2009)

bigtez said:


> PFD1: Hi Vis colour, will make you float on your back and support your head.
> PFD2: Hi Vis colour, will only ensure you float, won't keep your face out of the water if you are unconcious
> PFD3: As for PFD2 but not high vis colours, may also provide less floatation.


In what circumstance is a kayaker in need of a pfd 1?
You are not going to be hit in the head by a boom or fall from height onto something hard. So if you are unconcious it will be a predetermined event such as heart attack.

Type 2 PFd is the business. Allows easy visibility above and in the water.

Type 3 the same flotation as type 3 but not the visibility.

Best pfd for kayaking is type 2 gives visability and able to swim and reboard.
Type 3 not as visible.
Type 1 not good, foam models too bulky to paddle in and reboard in event of capsize. Srlf inflating model a hindrance on kayak as it may inflate prematurely, manual inflating takes too much effort to blow up and keep inflated also too much inflation to aid reboarding kayak.


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## Physhopath (Jun 21, 2007)

kayaksportsmark said:


> In what circumstance is a kayaker in need of a pfd 1?
> You are not going to be hit in the head by a boom or fall from height onto something hard. So if you are unconcious it will be a predetermined event such as heart attack.
> 
> .


Surf entry and Landings, rapids in a bass stream ????? :? :? 
Run over by a stinker?? :?


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## kayaksportsmark (Apr 1, 2009)

Wear a helmet in rapids and surf entry.
Make yourself visible to stink boats.
One day there may be a kayaking specific pfd1 available but for now the best option is a type2


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

maybe they should make a pfd type 2 with an inflatable head support.
problem solved


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

FYI - BIG W has a sale starting tomorrow (Oct 22) with ET PFD1's at 2 for $90. (normally $55 each). these are quite comfy and would be fine for paddling.

anyone looking for one might be worth buddying up with another member and buying a couple..


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

also, does anyone know if the Hobie PFD1 (with pockets etc) are as yet available?


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## koich (Jul 25, 2007)

Yes, I was in wetspot watersports just 10 minutes ago and they had them in.

They look ok, but nothing on the stohlquists or the ultras.


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## LizardWizard (Feb 10, 2006)

kayaksportsmark said:


> None,
> tell them to shove their ridiculous requirement up their ass.
> Any real kayaker will know a pfd type one either foam or inflatable is NOT suitable for kayaking.
> Snub the comp until the organisors come to their senses.
> ...


1. its a Bream comp.. not a Snapper comp, what kind of seas do they think you will be going into to get a bream?

2. safety equipment should improve survival in the water, but your in a kayak.. your almost in the water already, and youve probably been there many times before, anything big enough to sink you is just about any boat there is, so your going to be better off with something that will allow you to escape certain disaster, and that means something that allows you to row SAFELY.

3 solutions..

1. sneaky: get a pfd type 1 and gut it !

2. nasty: dont enter, just show up nearby, and get the info on when to return... go out for your own day.. come back in time for the awards, and heckle their chosen winners with your record catches  haha

3. nice: find out who the sponsors are, meet them and let them know you would be willing to sit down to discuss the possibility for a light craft competition (and sponsorships etc  )... no stink boats, just kayaks, canoes, float catamarans etc... peddle, paddle, electric, or sail OK.


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