# Words from Boaties...... ??



## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

In the last six months Ive bumped into or had a chat to a couple of boaties who also fish... and enevitably the whole kayak fishing comes out and all the joys of what we do. But then all of a sudden I get a bit of a lecture about how we cant be seen and that what we do is really dangerous etc. One guy that fishes Long Reef was going on about how he launches and motors hell for leather out to the reef and that if we ( as in the whole yak fraternity ) was not lit up enough(early am) then theres sure to be an accident.

Now It seemed that it was in some way our responsibility that if there was any accident it was to be our own doing.. and I know that many of us strive to achieve maximum visibility in all conditions day and night.... but it did seem that these guys besides the fact that they have their own responsibilities on the water - were concerned about how we cannot be seen at times.

SO I recount this tail as it has been bothering me some what....... it irks me a little that these boaties see us as a bit of a liability and that they feel that we cannot be seen enough... and its our responsibilty if theres an accident.

Not sure where this debate goes... but I say this as a guage on how other water users perceive us.. and especailly as we are in the winter here in the east...... there is the added danger of fishing in fog, low light and some of you lads doing the night thing.

Safe fishing

Woppie


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## sbd (Aug 18, 2006)

If you can't see Avayak or myself, you're either blind, drunk or stupid. I have every bit as much right to be out there as anyone else, but I don't compromise on visibility nonetheless. Certainly Southerly, tugs and water police have no trouble spotting us from kilometres away.



wopfish said:


> One guy that fishes Long Reef was going on about how he launches and motors hell for leather out to the reef


Where do you think the safety issue here is? This water is occupied by jet skiers, surfers, paddle boarders and rowers in addition to yaks, many of whom (especially the rowers) launch in the dark and are completely unlit. Lead footed idiots assuming the water is all theirs is certainly likely to end in disaster, but driving a boat doesn't render one immune from observing basic safety precautions.

As yakkers the best we can do is to attempt to achieve optimum visibility with lights, carry flares and an airhorn (I carry both) and keep ever vigilant.


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## colzinho (Aug 6, 2007)

I fish occasionally in a boat with mates In sydney in the usual spots bluefish, LR, spit, harbour and agree, you can't see kayaks very well at all, plus theres a whole lot more going on on the water down there than most places - even if you have the most lurid colour yak nad vests the real issue is that you completely dissapear for long intervals in between swell and even wakes the flags are too small (evidence: ever completely "lost" a FAD or waverider bouy for a while in clear conditions and spent a while searching - theyre a lot bigger than us!) in such busy waterways all you can do is hope that boat drivers are alert and fish in numbers if possible. I think we also get a bad rep from the kayak tours and hirers around the spit that seem to think they have right of way - last time i was there we were trolling/downrigging the area and had to alter course or speed a few times for kayaks...even though im keen on the sport i still found it highly irritating and irresponsible.


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

Interestingly, I think fishing kayakers are on balance far more responsible than non-fishing yakers in this regard. I have seen many paddlers in open water and struggle to recall any except fishers wearing pfds (not all fishers do BTW). When sbd and I made a recent abortive attempt at an evening fish at Long Reef we were passed by two paddlers who had neither pfds nor lights and they were headed out.

We do have responsibility to avoid incidents with other boats, as they have a responsibility to avoid incidents with us. Clearly this means that we should have adequate lighting at night or in low light (probably the most dangerous time). Anything else we can do to improve our visibleness should be done too - brightly coloured yaks, paddle blades, pfds and hats, flags, ... I'm not sure how useful reflective gear is as there is rarely any lights to reflect.

For the boaties, it means acceptance that they share the water with craft that are small and low to the water. That they are big and fast does not absolve them from their responsibility to navigate in such a way that they don't collide with any other craft. This generally means slowing down in poor light and keeping a vigil for other craft


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## Junglefisher (Jun 2, 2008)

sbd said:


> If you can't see Avayak or myself, you're either blind, drunk or stupid.


Sounds like a few boaties I know 
Serisously, up here there's plenty of logs etc floating around after the wet season. If they are going too fast to see a kayaker sitting 3-4' above the water line, how are they going to avoid something that barely breaks the surface?


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Like I said really I'm just relaying whats been said to me......... one of the chaps referred to the swell hiding the yaks in between waves kind of thing... I should imagine at night a good 360 degree light will stick out way more than a dull colour yak on a cloudy day....

The other concern was there was a little bit of arrogance it seemed in the conversation that these guys were sure it would be the yakkers fault if there was a collision..... I suppose then this is where I am going with this - is that if this is two boaties perceptions of us... then sadly we can only hope and try to be as vigilant and as visible as possible with this kind of attitude in mind. As we are becoming bigger in numbers then hopefully boaties will be more aware of our prescence in the water...... but lets not assume so. The air horn is a good idea me thinks.... are they salt proof these days...

Woppie


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

theres all sorts of boaties, ranging from the responsible, vigilant and alert, to the downright stupid and beer soaked ******* variety. Just spend half an hour at any local boat ramp on a summer Sunday morning and you'll see the full spectrum.

the problem we have as kayakers is knowing which 'type' of boatie is heading towards you at 30 knots while you're bobbing around on the ocean. :shock:

Sure, there will be incidents in future where boaties crash into kayaks. For god sake they already crash into other boaters, channel markers, jetskis, rocks, wharves, each other etc etc. And yes, if a kayak is unlucky enough to be hit by a boat there will no doubt be uninformed calls to 'ban kayaks' from that area from 'concerned water users'.

Unfortunately we live in a world where ******* nutbags are given licences to operate high powered machinery (cars/bikes/boats/farm machinery). In a perfect world that would not be the case and we'd be able to go about our pastime with no fear.

However that's not the case, so best to stay alert or you risk getting mowed down by one of these gooses.


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## Flump (Apr 17, 2006)

I wonder if we lobby our local pollies we could just get boats banned so we can get on with our stealth fishing :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Sorry Flump they are way to busy perverting the courses of justice to satisfy their own ends !!


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

it's the same as cycling, there are arseholes out there who are just upset that you are doing what you are doing. There is nothing anyone can do to change the way these people think.
All we can do is remember that they are about.
That and safety lights etc.


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## mcbigg (Jul 14, 2007)

Most comments I get are more bemused that I could actually be bothered to do it, and not just get a boat. I get a stack more comments about the waders I wear.

But, if you want comments, you wanna try snorkeling around in the bay I do down here. You'd think I'd stolen the crown jewels or something, the abuse I get from passing boaties. "Where's yer f*#king flag?!!" Ummm, don't know where they want me to mount my flag. (I walk to the water from my car, so no boat)


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## paffoh (Aug 24, 2006)

http://www.rowingboatlights.com/generallights.html

A bloody bright investment ( Pun intended ), no affiliation with the product or company...


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

I carry an anchor light, head lamp and a dolphin torch just in case. I carry 2 flairs down the back pouch of my jacket, a sharp pocket knife on a holster attached to my jacket as well as a waterproof VHF radio and the mobile phone is always somewhere. I have a recreational boat licence and know my basic maritime rules......bugger the boaters they just scare the fish away. :twisted:

Really the boaters around Redcliffe aren't that bad, you should go further north where kayak fishing is still in its infant stages, then you'll see what ******** are really like....they just go flat chat, run over your trolling lines, wont change coarse to avoid you......or you get the ones who will do donuts around you have a gander and a chuckle and take off again......Ignorant pricks. :twisted:


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Sadly my concerns are that a little bit like the car / bicycle analogy - a boat is faster / harder than a soft squidgy yakker in his small bit of plastic on the ocean....... also slower to get out the way. My main concerns really... is that with our numbers swelling to 3000 is that we all have an idea of what some boaties are thinking and how we can prepare for such situations. If there is any trouble the yakker will come of worse... so prevention is much better than having our day in a court of law....

Many of you that have replied are old salts on the sea and I know that many of you will be lit up at night like christmas trees..... hopefully we can all be prepped and ready to tackle the ocean with other water users being fully aware of us being there..


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## mcbigg (Jul 14, 2007)

wopfish said:


> ...how we can prepare for such situations...


I've always though a jousting pole with a sharp steel spike on the end would be handy for such situations.

I might still go down, but the bastard's coming with me!


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## theclick (Jun 25, 2007)

I got a lamp set up above head height attached to my esky. Does the job and is removable, also have a slot for a flat and other vital safety gear. Reduced the holes i had to make in the yak, and is well visible.


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

At the end of the day woppy people need to take responsibility for them selves. There is very little in safety standards for kayaks but that is no reason not go prepared. Even someone fully equipped can get into trouble. When I used to ride bicycles I would never trust any cars, would give way to everyone and stick as close as possible to the gutter....blah blah. I take the same approach with boaters.....trust no one.

Unfortunately there will be accidents, you cant make it completely safe and frankly I like an element of danger  . This forum and your posts woppy will hopefully make new yakers better prepared.


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## fishydude (Dec 30, 2007)

G'day guys. It seems to me that if you are to do high speeds in the dark then you need great lights as there could be logs in the water, people from an accident, surfers kayakers and all the rest. If you didn't have headlights on your car imagine the mayhem at night or when it is raining, even with lines and lanes and street lights. To do high speeds under these circumstances is ridiculous in the extreme. However, kayakers should know they are harder to see than anything with sides and should add adequate lighting for night trips as well as other devices to prevent their own demise. Comes back to no matter who is in the right you are still in more sh!^ than batman if you get run over. Self preservation instincts seem to be getting weaker in human beings it seems to me. To lay all the responsibility on the kayaker is rough as guts, attitude wise and I would be steering away from the areas that night/hell for leather folks frequent even though this might mean not being in the best place at the best time. My 2 cents was on special today at only half price.  
Cheers
Mike


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## HiRAEdd (Nov 12, 2005)

Hmm...interesting topic. It got me thinking of the following scenarios.

Apparently 4WDs on city roads are dangerous to other cars and pedestrians. The call is to ban 4WDs, not the cars and pedestrians.

Bikes (whether pedal or motor) are apparenlty "difficult" for car drivers to see and thus are frequently hit. Yet there is no call to ban cars nor bikes. In fact, car drivers are told to be more vigilant.

So when a boaty is screaming along and fails to spot a diffcult to see yakker - all things being equal - I don't see how it can be the yakker's fault. The boaties out there - like the drivers on the road - just need to adapt to other users and pilot their craft accordingly.

If it's pi%%ing down rain, you slow your car down to avoid a collision. So if it's big seas, you slow your boat down to avoid a collision.

It's a no-brainer in my opinion....then again, some people behind the wheel are all "no-brainers"


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## onemorecast (Apr 17, 2006)

Was out about 2 months ago and got to talking to a stink boater who told me that the thing he liked most about the boating was that there was no speed limit on the water. He said he liked Cowan creek more now because Sydney Harbour was getting too crowded. That confirms my practice of just assuming that stink boaters travelling fast in my direction either don't see me or simply regard me as a speed bump and it's my responsibility to be seen quickly or get the hell out of the way.

I don't like having to adopt that practice, but I'd rather walk around with some suppressed anger, than be a righteous quadriplegic.


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## Astro (Nov 27, 2006)

there are guys...lots of them up here that will go through mangrove creeks full bore with no room to move at all...

i'm an old bike rider..cycle and motor...so have a strong sense of self preservation.....talk all you want....but it won't stop that boat.....defensive kayaking 101....12 gauge shotty.. :twisted: ;-)

i have had to stand up and wave my arms once at an oncoming boat...lucky i heard him first and had a bit more time to react....standing gave the ability for him to see me...and me the ability to jump if required....


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## Shorty (May 11, 2008)

When i used to travel shows and fairs around Australia i used to sell light up novelties, the most popular over the last few years was is the Star Wars light Sabers, long skinny and Blue, wave them and you can see them for miles, stick one on a pole some where and would be good in low light and at night,,my father dumped a pile between the shed and fence a few months ago thinking they were the faulty ones, one works perfectly when i checked them the other day, i reckon i would wrap them in glad wrap for extra protection from the water,,

I also read in a kayak tips book those glow sticks (6 inch type) tie them on a string and spin them around in an emergency to attract attention, can see for miles.

One question re PFD's and boats, does anybody think they are dangerous around boats ?

If a boat was heading straight for me and about to hit me i would want to tip over and dive deep to avoid the boat and propeller,,seems a PFD would put be me in harms way by restricting my ability to dive deep and fast ????????????????????????????? :?


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## Blaen (Jul 4, 2006)

Woppie,

The way I see it is that, and this could get me in trouble, they are right. BUT only from the perspective of the yaker being kitted out correctly for the conditions we head out in. i.e. If I were to head out onto the water in the pre-dawn, after dusk or in the fog, I would be making sure I had a raised light up (at least 3 feet off of the deck) and a flag with reflective edges at least 1 foot triangular in size (about 4 to 5 feet off of the deck). It's is our responsibility to make sure we can be seen on the water in all conditions. However *it is the responsibility of every water user to look out for others.*

As far as someone saying they don't look out for others when heading out to the fishing grounds and just going flat out to get there, I don't know about the rules in other states, but in Tassie the boating rules state:

_Speed Limits:
The following speed limits exist for recreational vessels in Tasmania and on-the-spot fines can be issued to offenders.

No boat shall exceed a speed of 5 knots when within 60 metres of a wharf, jetty, mooring, the shoreline or other boat. 
No boat shall exceed a speed of 5 knots when within 120 metres of a person swimming, a person diving (displaying the A flag) or a person wading in the water. 
There are also a number of designated areas around the state where a speed limit of 5 knots exists. These areas are normally around popular swimming beaches where MAST has previously encountered dangerous behaviour from PWC and boat operators in close proximity to swimmers. _

So down here it is the responsibility of the Boater to be vigilant and keep an eye out for not only other boats, but swimmers, diver and or people wading. This is a question in every boat licence test, I am sure there is something similar in all other states. Individuals who have experienced people violating these rules are able to record the rego number and if police get enough complaints they will act upon them.

Basically everyone is responsible for their actions on the water and needs to be aware of other water users. In almost 3 years yakking down here I have only had one incident where someone did not obey those rules. I know they saw me as they did a ring around me on the yak at the time looking it the whole time.

Now here is about the point I need to make an admission, I rarely use a day flag and I can now see that needs to change, so I will be getting a dirty big orange flag for day time use very soon.

I agree with DaveyG about there being all kinds of Boaties out there most good but some bad, especially the ones who crashing into things. I remember two incidents here in Tasmania a few years back: one involved a 30 foot motor boat, not just crashing into a Salmon Ring but hitting it so hard he drove up over the top and ended up completely inside the ring!!!

The other involved one of the huge Catamaran Ferries being driven up onto what's know as Black Jack's Rocks. 100 foot of huge aluminium ferry sitting on top of a huge rock in the middle of the bay, it was quite a sight tosee.


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## fisherdan (Apr 17, 2007)

keza said:


> it's the same as cycling, there are arseholes out there who are just upset that you are doing what you are doing.


They're just upset because they are imagining themselves in a pair of tights, just like when a big woman sees a fit chick in a mini skirt and calls her a tart.. :?

People are just funny like that


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## Rodman (Jun 29, 2007)

Blaen said:


> The other involved one of the huge Catamaran Ferries being driven up onto what's know as Black Jack's Rocks. 100 foot of huge aluminium ferry sitting on top of a huge rock in the middle of the bay, it was quite a sight to see.


Yep, quite a sight. I wonder who was at fault, the boatie or the rocks?

http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/mya ... lid=158583


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## Blaen (Jul 4, 2006)

Rodman said:


> Blaen said:
> 
> 
> > The other involved one of the huge Catamaran Ferries being driven up onto what's know as Black Jack's Rocks. 100 foot of huge aluminium ferry sitting on top of a huge rock in the middle of the bay, it was quite a sight to see.
> ...


Well done Rodman, I was looking for a picture of it but couldn't find one.

It was in the end the driver's fault, who the actual driver was at the time is some what fuzzy in my memory and probably in the memory of the actual driver as well ;-)


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## HiRAEdd (Nov 12, 2005)

Blaen said:


> Rodman said:
> 
> 
> > Blaen said:
> ...


I can see the new add for RACQ now...."Huge fricking rock in the middle of the bay? What huge fricking rock in the middle of the bay?" "How can you not see a fricking huge rock like that!"


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## Ado (Mar 31, 2008)

blaen said:


> Now here is about the point I need to make an admission, I rarely use a day flag and I can now see that needs to change, so I will be getting a dirty big orange flag for day time use very soon.


Well said Blaen. Very courageous of you. The first step to resolving your problem is admitting you have one  . We should start a self help group FA (make of that acronym what you will).

On a slightly (and only slightly) more serious note, I recently added a page on safety flags to the Wiki. There is some great opinion in this thread, and I'd encourage those of you that wish to immortalise your words and anecdotes to do so by adding to or editing this page. I also think we should have similar pages for lighting. Go'orn, you know you want to 8) .

http://www.akff.net/wiki/index.php?title=Safety_Flag

Its interesting. After reading this forum, the first accessory that I bought when I purchased my first yak a few months ago was a safety flag. Yet, in my very limited travels, I am yet to see another kayaker with a flag. It's the same with rockclimbers and helmets. People would rather die than look like a dork. Since I can't help but look like a dork, I figures I'd be a live one ;-) .


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## fishydude (Dec 30, 2007)

Blaen, kill 2 birds mate....No not literally :roll: To make yourself visible and get yourself around, a sail is the way to go ;-) . At night shine a light up at it as well and you are more visible than a boat. Then that gives you the right to cruise around crashing into anchored boats and say,"oh I didn't see you."...lol :lol: :lol: . They really do stand out like the proverbial whatnames. I already have a battery for my fishfinder so it will now only cost me about 50 dollars aust to buy a 360 degree led light on a 40 inch pole that can be unplugged leaving only the mount with the wiring under decks. This will allow me to see what I am doing onboard as well. I am thinking of getting a couple of bright lights for under deck as well which will cause the whole yak to glow 8) . Unfortunately this will only help so far. I have been hit in carparks in a 20 foot orange valiant station wagon more times than I like to remember( I've owned three now) by people who are driving in a car park and obviously can't see me parked there :roll: . Either that or it is deliberate which is just dumb :? as most cars will come off second best with a val :twisted: . Some people should just take the bus, or ferry, or charter. :shock: :lol: They know who they are.
Cheers
Mike


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## rawprawn (Aug 31, 2005)

Shorty said:


> One question re PFD's and boats, does anybody think they are dangerous around boats ?
> 
> If a boat was heading straight for me and about to hit me i would want to tip over and dive deep to avoid the boat and propeller,,seems a PFD would put be me in harms way by restricting my ability to dive deep and fast ????????????????????????????? :?


Agree Shorty. You need your PDF to survive after the boat has hit you but you need it off before it hits you so you can avoid it. Same in rock fishing you don't want a PDF or flotation on as soon as you get washed off because it prevents you from getting under the waves and away from the rocks.

I think we just need to be very vigilant and act like the hunted not the hunter when on the water. As Astro says it's very similar to riding a motor bike you need to think for everybody else and if you want to be safer get a car.

We have lot of ski boats on my local water way and they hardly ever look where they are going. You could have all the lighting and safety gear you could think of but if they are looking behind and not ahead you are at risk. I will often paddle the long way around to be sure I'm not putting myself in any danger.

When I had a boat I would gun it out to the fishing grounds to get there as quick as I could. I would keep a look out but in swell a yak can be very hard to see. If you paddle off shore at night or when there is big swell then its part of the risk you take when being out there. Take sensible precautions but it's no point blaming anybody when your dead. If you want to be safer get a boat.


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## Billybob (Aug 29, 2005)

Reality is, a bright coloured kayak probably has a higher visibility factor than a 12ft or 14ft tinny.

I use an anchor light for pre dawn paddling and can be seen a couple of klicks away.

I haven't had too many run-ins with non-attentive boaties but the odd time when I've felt a fast traveling boaty hasn't seen me I've waved my paddle high in the air and it's had the desired effect.

My paddle blades, by the way, are bright yellow.


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## Redfin60 (Nov 30, 2006)

G'day Woppie,

Have to agree with you, there is a bit of a moron factor out there. Common sense is not one of the criteria for a boat or car license unfortunately. I don't have a yak as yet but have a tinny I fish out of. I always drive to the conditions and with the help of this website have a lot of respect for yakkers. I frequent Corio bay in Geelong a fair bit and see a number of yakkers out and about. I always keep a good distance, and if passing any yakkers always drop off the plane and cruise past to reduce the wake. If I see a yak in a spot I intend to fish I simply choose another. The bays we fish are big enough for everyone not to crowd each other, or turn a great day into a miserable day. Unfortunately a large number of boaters don't give a toss about anyone but themselves. I was anchored out from Patto river in full sunlight and some meat head flew past the back of my boat full throttle and smiling as he ran over my lines not more than 10 meters from the back of the boat. I horn is handy, lights may help but sometimes they only thing that will make them learn is a bazooka!


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## GoneFishn (May 17, 2007)

Can I ask the guys that get buzzed by boats do you take note of there rego, report the incident to the cops/port authority.
One thing I have noticed when out in the dark with other yakers is lights such as these














are no where near bright enough or high enough of the deck. I use a boat all round light that is on a pole that places the light above my head and can been seen from a long distance.


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## Marty75 (Oct 23, 2007)

This may be a stupid question but isn't the purpose of an all-round white light to signify that you're anchored? I know that yaks don't move too fast compared to stinkboats but won't some boaties seeing an all-round white light expect a vessel with such a light to be stationary?

Don't get me wrong, I definitely agree though that the all-round white light option is 100% better than no light at all. I've got one of the Hydrostar suction lights http://www.austinkayak.com/products/1036/Seattle-Sports-HydroStar-MultiStrobe-Light.html myself that I attach to the bow of my Hobie hatch but am seriosuly considering one of the Tektite 4 jobbies to mount on a pole behind my seat as well.

Just a thought....

Marty


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## theclick (Jun 25, 2007)

In regards to the above, I'm pretty sure here in Queensland a white light (see: anchor light) is a legislative requirement for nighttime fishing. On the other hand, the red/green lights utilised on small craft would also be confusing, as it could create the perception of a boat traveling towards you with speed, as opposed to a kayak traveling towards you with retardation.


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## sbd (Aug 18, 2006)

Marty75 said:


> This may be a stupid question but isn't the purpose of an all-round white light to signify that you're anchored?


A yak's speed compared to even a tinny is low enough that we might as well be anchored - any visibility is good visibility.



theclick said:


> On the other hand, the red/green lights utilised on small craft would also be confusing


The biggest advantage of red/green lights as far as I'm concerned is that from a distance, it makes you look like a boat. If a power boater perceives there is a boat in their way, hopefully they'll take action to avoid it. I don't have them yet, but they're on my real-soon-now list.


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## feel the sting (Aug 8, 2006)

Another situation that reduces visibility is the sun when close to the horizon. I have been in a situation in my 5m boat when we were almost run over by a 40 foot gameboat. At the time we couldn't believe he was coming straight at us. It was 5 Km's out to sea and we were drifting and we noticed this boat from along way away coming at us. I said to my mate he's a gin palace wanker and he's just trying to scare us. Well he succeeded in scaring us and only with starting the boat and moving away did we not collide. And I still remember looking up at skipper on the flybridge and he had no idea we were there.

On reflection we realized we were between him and the sun and the glare off the water must have hidden our boat. Plus the fact that most windscreens on boats have a layer of saltspray which decreases visibilty. That afternoon my mate went down to the harbour to have a word to the skipper. The skipper was apologetic and said the first he realized we were there was when his crew yelled out how close he was to us.

So just another factor to take into consideration

the sting


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## manta30 (Mar 15, 2008)

feel the sting said:


> On reflection we realized we were between him and the sun and the glare off the water must have hidden our boat. Plus the fact that most windscreens on boats have a layer of saltspray which decreases visibilty.
> the sting


Our boating rules are based on Internaional Collisions Regs which state:
"Rule 6
Safe speed

Every vessel shall at all times proceed at a safe speed so that she can take proper and effective action to avoid a collision and be stopped within a distance appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions. 
In determining a safe speed the following factors shall be among those taken in to account:

(a) By all vessels.

(i) the state of visibility;"

If the conditions are bad making visibilty poor then boats shouldn't be travelling at high speeds. Boats must be operated at speeds that are safe for the conditions.
I train people to get boat licences and a lot of them think just because they have high powered boats they can go flat out in all conditions. If a collision occurs they are partially at fault if it can be shown that the speed of the vessel was unsafe for conditions and totally at fault if the yakker has met his/her requirements in making themselves visible.
Also the types of lights carried by vessels are mandated so that the type of vessel and its operation can be identified at night. By putting red/green side lights on a yak or row boat gives other operates a false idea of the size and capability of your vessel which may inadvertently lead to a collison.
Neil


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## lucifer (Feb 21, 2008)

Dont worry guys with the cost of living today how long you recon the red neck petrol gussling stink boats keep operating ,petrol ,home loans etc theres a change in the wind ,why are there more ppl giving the boats away and going kayak .For me personly besides a good exercise ,
rego boat each year +insurance+maintenance boat +maintence traailer+tyres+rego for trailer=$$$$$$$ kayak yearly expense =0


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## spook01 (May 9, 2008)

Hi Guys:

Great Discussion.

Here's my 2 cents. I have some experience both as a yachtie and Power boat owner. ( more recently a yakker.)

If memory serves, the Vic boating Regs require powered craft to give way to sailboats (and I think paddlecraft as well) at all times.

Having said that, I have to agree with those issues regarding visibility in low light/night time and the need to be seen. (particularly when dropping into the trough between swells)

Seems to me like 3 metres of light fibreglass pole (old fishing rod) and high vis flag of some sort may be the go.
Also, can somebody tell me if an emergency strobe attached to a pole both day and night would be legal? Those things can be seen from a squillion Km away.

Finally, without trying to be the doomsayer. The Kayak fraternity should be on guard. These days of Legislation and Litigation will have the lawmakers taking the path of least resistance, (we are the soft target) and we will find our recreation being licenced and (over)regulated They certainly will not target the boat owners cos they represent considerable revenue already. (that would be good enough reason on its own for Govt regulation of our sport)

Basically, we need to do everything in our power, in the most united and consistent manner to present the safest possible picture to those on the outside looking in. Believe me, with the recent rapid growth we have all experienced, we are under close scritiny by all other water users.

Keep the paddle side up.

Spook


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## hairymick (Oct 18, 2005)

Good thread guys and some good points are being made.

I would like to share with you a little incident that happened to me today. I am not sure if this is common practice of some stink boaters elsewhere but it is happening to me more and more here in the Hervey Bay area.

I will paint the scenario first to give you an idea.

I was anchored up (from the bow) in the mouth of the Gregory River this morning. Day was fine and clear, - no wind and the water was glassy calm. Visibility - unlimited.

Where I was anchored, the Gregory is about 800 metres wide, and I was about 10 metres from the western bank and well out of the main channel (by about 300 metres)

As I was fishing, I was watching a tinny, about 4 metres long, approaching me at speed. When it first came into my site, it was about a kilometre away, was heading straight for me and continued to head straight for me - at speed. Guesstimate 20 to 25 knots.

As he continued to draw closer and closer and showing no sign of veering away or even slowing down, I am thinking, what the hell am I gonna do here.

I allways carry my camera and seeing that there was little else I could do in the limited time I had left till he hit me if he continued on his current course. Out with the camera, at least I cvould get some evidence for the inquest. At this time he was about 70 metres away as I was lining up the shot, when the middle aged female up the bow screamed at the driver (it was a tiller steer boat), " HE'S GOT A CAMERA!!!"

The boat instantly slows to an idle and veers to port slightly to clear me.

From the above, I can only assume that these two pricks had well and truly seen my little kayak a long time before they slowed down. Further, that they had decided to have a little fun with me and to use me as either a target or to see if they could tip me.

This trend is happening more and more in ther Burrum River system. No doubt, in the event of a trajedy, the boater will claim "I just din't see him" Utter horse shit in my opinion.

We know how visible we are, particularly so in flat, calm water. Tell me you can't see a kayak half a kilometre away, regardless of its colour.

A person in charge of a vessel, any vessel, that is under way, is required by law to be vigilent. Provided we kayakers are abiding by the relevent laws, we have as much right to be on the water as the big guys.


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

Mick I would say I had similar experience while camping at Burrem last year mate. I dont know what it is with that place but I on at least 5 occasions had to wave my paddle to get attention of boaties and even then a couple didnt slow down or alter there coarse. I ended up loosing 2 lures through boats. Mate it got to the stage if I saw a boat coming I would paddle intro the shallows while they past and never anchor up. 
Around home I very rarely have problems with boaties, in general they seem to be great, often slowing down when passing and giving me a wide berth.

Why do they hate kayakers up there?.....do they think where a bunch of tree huggin hippies or something. :?


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## manta30 (Mar 15, 2008)

hairymick said:


> A person in charge of a vessel, any vessel, that is under way, is required by law to be vigilent. Provided we kayakers are abiding by the relevent laws, we have as much right to be on the water as the big guys.


hairymick
I fully agree with you. The onus is on boats to be operated at a safe speed *for the conditions *and to maintain "a proper lookout by site and hearing".
Neil


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Harymick - quite a hairy story !!!! Gald to hear that no harm came your way in the end - bloody idiots - who do they think they are.


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## onemorecast (Apr 17, 2006)

hairymick said:


> " HE'S GOT A CAMERA!!!"


I wonder if "HE'S GOT A HANDGUN!!" would get get around, have a more lasting effect on the local boating hoons? :twisted:

_Sorry, the American coming out in me I guess_


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## hairymick (Oct 18, 2005)

G'day AWTY

Mate, Normally I would just put it down to the very shallow gene pool in this area and a significant proportion of these people are the classic, low forehead, slack jawed, vacant stare type you see from time to time. I call them sub - humans or un-men

Then there are those with a relatively human IQ, who just don't seem to give a rats

What-ever, it seems to be getting more and more prevalent and is part of the reason - the main reason in fact, why I no longer launch at the Urangan boat harbour and paddle over to the islands. Week-ends can be very scary coming and going from there! When I get the chance, I will PM you a web site you might find interesting.

The two people concerned today, were middle aged, aparently sober and aparently in all other respects, normal. Pretty typical of so many snow birders up here this time of year. Bring a caravan & a tinny up for the winter, Also bring a freezer full of southern lamb and take a freezer full of fillets back. Bring $5.00 and a shirt, stay 6 months and don't change either.

They were however, one boat out of about 30 or so that passed me today. All the others were courteous and thoughtful. Like all things, it just takes on lunatic to spoil a good day.

While not a particularly busy river compared to those further south, we seem to have more than our fair share of halfwits. i find myself now hugging the banks and shallows where-ever I can. If I even see another boat approaching, I wait till it has passed before attempting to cross a channel.

Guys thanks for your kind words, i felt the need for a little rant after todays little adventure.

BTW, got a couple of bream and whiting. Fishing is real quiet here at the moment. The Burrum is still running pretty fresh.

Had to stop in here and check my pants after my little scare. :lol:


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## Dodge (Oct 12, 2005)

sbd said:


> The biggest advantage of red/green lights as far as I'm concerned is that from a distance, it makes you look like a boat. If a power boater perceives there is a boat in their way, hopefully they'll take action to avoid it.


Dave I have to disagree with that line of reasoning mate as it throws doubt into the equation.

Red/green tells the other skipper that you are underway, and he will expect you to be taking 50% responsibility on any change in course to avoid collision because your boat is also under control.

However the *white riding light tells him the onus to alter course is 100% in his hands*, as you are likely at anchor [or only powered by oars] as indicated by the riding light.

That is the main reason red/green is extinguished when not underway.

For many years I navigated the GC waterways going out on Friday nights for the weekend, and only expected red/green on moving boats, or navigation beacons, while the whites required my changes of course if necessary.

In all cases the kayak is the boat at risk being smaller so the extra vigilance remains a must regardless of lighting


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## Detritus2099 (Jun 8, 2008)

Bugger the cars vs bikes arguement, consider the cars vs cars arguement. If someone is in a car and (relatively) stationary, then the person running into the other vehicle is at fault.

The rule of the ocean is the person with the greater capability to get out of the way (ie motor boats) _gets out of the bloody way_. Doesn't matter if you are in a 14 ft kayak or a 28 foot catamaran - you have less movability, therefore the stink boat is the party that needs to move.

I am not saying just sit there and take it. Nor am I saying that this abrogates your responsibility to visibility and safety, but stink boat owners really get under my skin with their sheer arrogance.


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## JT (May 25, 2006)

In regards Hairy's little incident, it does make me shake my head and wonder why on earth anyone would get any form of satisfaction or fun out of traveling a kilometer to buzz some bloke minding his own business in a kayak. I would have assumed it was a case of not being seen but "he's got a camera" pretty much torpedoes that theory. These are the same type that wipe boogas onto the elevator floor buttons just before you get in and they get out.

Glad you're ok Hairy.

JT


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## johnny (Aug 12, 2007)

Can't read all the replies but.....bike disco flashing light clipped to top of spare rod at night....roadworks red/white 30cm of bunting flag tied to spare rod tip by day
the harbour crossing chicken
johnny


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## spook01 (May 9, 2008)

Hi Guys:

Can anyone comment on the legality of a strobe light to aid visibility.

Regards

Spook


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

spook01 said:


> Hi Guys:
> 
> Can anyone comment on the legality of a strobe light to aid visibility.
> 
> ...


State by state laws. NSW Maritime has a publication urging rowers to use flashing lights so I can't see why kayakers couldn't


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## Dodge (Oct 12, 2005)

Peril said:


> State by state laws. NSW Maritime has a publication urging rowers to use flashing lights so I can't see why kayakers couldn't


Qld now says that also


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

----

QlpoOTFBWSZTWWCJ/4gAABlfgAAQQKUACAAjEAA/79+gIACIIp6npH6RNAA9Rpo0Gqe0g0JGyJ6mTRhEO60pMp50gzlngPSWljlBIz4t1jME89dop4ISFSXIG/MsuOH1igqdEMFRk789CnRDpQuwSYc3w63BStuXd7wXajZ7IaJ6G6Z6sZgnQiSqneToGyq8V2P4X8RjhKQxx5msWZ6e4lxREhNwDLgz1g8XsR/F3JFOFCQYIn/iAA==


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## spook01 (May 9, 2008)

Thanks Peril & Richo

Spook


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## Yakwannabe (May 11, 2008)

Woppy  
I reckon everyone needs to take some reponsibility for how they behave, and being seen is part of that. ;-) 
I am yet to get a Yak (and I will) but given the portable and flexible nature of Yaks I presume there is a bit of jealousy between boaters and yakkers. I found the analogy between cycling and cars, and kayaking and boating interesting.
I cycle for fun and fitness and as a cyclist you:
* occupy a lot less room on the road than a car,
* you are generally slower than a car on the road, although quicker when it is congested,
* you are less visible, or at least some drivers do not seem to see you,
* you are generally more flexible and
* in a bingle cyclists generally come off worse - I can say this from bitter experience.   
Some drivers seem to dislike cyclists (ie "pay your registration!") and I suppose some boaters may be the same.
Some of the keys to safe riding:
* is being visible, and having good lights is one way to be seen, :shock: :shock: 
* not changing direction without signalling,
* make eye contact with drivers, and
* treating moving cars with great suspicion!
When I get a yak I will think like a cyclist! :shock: :?


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## FoolInjected (Feb 4, 2008)

Peril said:


> spook01 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Guys:
> ...


from: http://www.waterways.nsw.gov.au/CodeOfConduct.html


> Code Of Conduct for Rowing and Sculling Shells
> 
> Code Of Conduct Outlining Additional Light Requirements for Rowing and Sculling Shells *over Four Metres *in Length
> 
> ...


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Its great to see these few words spoken to me - has stimulated this debate on the forum... almost a third of the members here have had a look and hopefully its raised awareness of our safety on the water.

Keeping it reel ( real)

Woppie


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## lucifer (Feb 21, 2008)

and we only want to go fishing


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## FoolInjected (Feb 4, 2008)

lucifer said:


> and we only want to go fishing


Wanna hope the guy in the back doesn't get carried away

"Dibs on the back seat"


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## fourbee4 (May 6, 2008)

A fishing sinker fired from a slingshot into the bow of the boat or windshield normally has the desired effect of slowing them down.

"Sorry Mr Stinkboat the sinker must have come off my line when I was casting!!?" :lol:


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## JT (May 25, 2006)

fourbee4 said:


> A fishing sinker fired from a slingshot into the bow of the boat or windshield normally has the desired effect of slowing them down.
> 
> "Sorry Mr Stinkboat the sinker must have come off my line when I was casting!!?" :lol:


That's the spirit! 8)

JT


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## Shorty (May 11, 2008)

I think we the sport growing rapidly the Shire councils should consider putting up signs at all the boat ramps telling people to look out for kayaks, not just fishing ones either, some sort of education type sign, a bit like the beware of motorcylists campaigns i have seen and educate them theres a strong possibilty of seeing kayak at night/dawn and give us a very wide berth etc.

Fellow Perthy and AKFF member Shufoy went night fishing for the first time the other night well lit up of course,,one boater slowed own to check out the situation,,he was heard to say something along the line of "What the F**** there on canoes, what nutters!!!!" he knows about fishing kayaks now but the other 86,000 registerd boaties owners here have little or know idea i am sure,,like 10,000's of other boaties around Australia.

I would like to see T.V advertisments at the peak summer boating times educating folks.


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## Shorty (May 11, 2008)

wopfish said:


> Its great to see these few words spoken to me - has stimulated this debate on the forum... almost a third of the members here have had a look and hopefully its raised awareness of our safety on the water.
> 
> Keeping it reel ( real)
> 
> Woppie


Someone needs to put the link on there local fishing forums as well, so every keen boater reads it, this subject has been discussed on our local fishing forum this week(Western Angler)and curious boaties are showing keen interest and asking about lighting etc, its all so new to them.


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## MrFaulty (May 15, 2008)

Colhinzo, last time I checked, Kayakers do have right of way over power, same as sail has right of way over power - obviously this is because power boats can manouver much more easily and quickly. Give me one good reason why kayak should give way to power. Having said this I think a bit of common sense never goes astray.


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## paulb (Nov 12, 2006)

Great post Woppie - a timely reminder that people are people and prone to doing stupid things, we just don't want to be on the receiving end.

Anyone who saw the news lately where a truckie got out of his cab to have a go at another driver - who in turn simply crushed him between the two rigs. Doesn't matter who was right or wrong, the more vunerable one got smashed and the other truck drove off. Imagine the same driver behind the wheel of a boat - might want to think twice about how much you want to aggravate them.


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## Brownie2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Well I'm only new to yaking but have done some boating in the past.I think it's up to everybody on the water to be responsible and light up. I'm actualy after a nice tall bright flag to fly as well, as we have started using the Gold coast broadwater and hell knows theres a lot of trafic out there on a sat. morn.and a lot of them not knowing which way there going let alone looking out for a kayak. Chers Tony. ;-)


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