# Career Advice Part 2 (Part 1 was in 2006)



## koich (Jul 25, 2007)

I'd go just to see if you could make their national cricket side.


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## GregL (Jul 27, 2008)

You will do as you are told by Angry Euro.


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## Barrabundy (Sep 29, 2008)

Sounds like your other half and the package are the two things which most concern you. I don't have any experience in what's in front of you. As a slob sitting in front of my pc I get the impression you'd like the move for personal satisfaction type reasons but you might be worse off in terms of relationship and finances.

In terms of what you can and can't ask for as part of your package negotiations, I've been on a selection panel on the odd occassion and some people just don't hold back when it comes to "I want, I want". Can't give advice on that though, other than is it something people who move around ask for? I've heard of people negotiating "rent subsidy" and the like when having to re-locate for a position...regardless of whether they're renting or not. Maybe you'll burn your bridges or maybe your boss is expecting it, don't know.

I'm sure someone else will have more constructive advice.


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## Big D (Apr 28, 2007)

Mate, I'm stuck in South Australia with my job (SA Police don't tend to head interstate much!) going to work in Marla is about as exotic as it will get! :lol: - and you've got a chance to enrich yours and your family's life once again - I reckon it will be one of those things you will soooo glad you did later in life despite the apparent hardships you may endure.

Remember - more money doesn't equal happiness - making the most of your opportunities, even if they go bum up, is what gives contentment I reckon. That way there's no regrets. (Having said that don't expect to see me in Marla next time you visit!)

Well there it is, not work relocation specific, but my philosophical mind at work. All the best with whatever decision you make.

Cheers

Damien


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## Big D (Apr 28, 2007)

p.s. can you have multiple wives in Malaysia :shock: :shock: :shock:


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## Marty75 (Oct 23, 2007)

Hey Gatesy,



Gatesy said:


> moje tchyne a tchan nemuzi nemluvit anglicky


 it's a double negative but I know what you mean ;-)

Definitely hit em up for more pay. Your missus at the moment has the support network of her family which she/you will definitely miss with helping out with Olivka. Sure plenty of parents raise kids on their own without any support from the grandparents but their contribution can't be ignored and you'll both be away from both sets of grandparents.

If you're successful with the increased pay go for it as life is too short and it's just another adventure! Plus being closer to your mum and being able to catch those Malaysian sailfish are additional bonuses!

Good luck with the decision mate.

Marty


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## eagle4031 (Jan 29, 2010)

Big D said:


> Remember - more money doesn't equal happiness - making the most of your opportunities, even if they go bum up, is what gives contentment I reckon. That way there's no regrets. (Having said that don't expect to see me in Marla next time you visit!)


I think this sums it up - some of the things i have gone for have gone belly up - but when i look back and reflect - i am a better person now because of it - and i have no regrets


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## bazzoo (Oct 17, 2006)

Mike Ken has totally encapsulated the situation . If they WANT you over there , they are going to have to pay for it , remembering that you will be renting and not paying off your own apartment , so thats dead money . Also Michaela should not be disadvantaged by the move , in other words if its not a promotion and they dont have the guts to pay like its a promotion , dont go .A move like that should come with a Job promotion and a title and a substantial salary package increase .Why put undue pressure on your marriage by accepting the terms they are offering , so you either get a bigger package , enough to more than compensate for Michaelas loss of income and your cost of renting plus a buffer , it seems to me they are more or less holding a gun to your head and hoping you wont call their bluff . Mike ask for what YOU and YOUR wife would want to go there and if not , theres always a very good income back here, and lots of Kings at the moment


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## troutfish (Jun 21, 2007)

my bit.

1 - not reasonable to expect a salary reduction, regardless of cost of living in malaysia
2- cant consider your wife's income loss, that is part of your decision making process
3 - will be hell on earth if your wife is not happy with it, especially with the cultural differences she will face

not an expert by any stretch, but have moved a few times

hope it works out for you


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## Rose (Jan 30, 2006)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Brc226 (Jul 31, 2009)

Gatsey,
Living in Asia will be quite an adjustment for everyone in your family and won't be without it's challenges. No company could realistically expect anyone to make such a major adjustment to their family life without reasonable compensation. The salary package they offer should be just compensation and should be good enough to compensate for the tough times when they arise. I know that there is more to life than money but let's face it, you wouldn't work if you didn't have to.

Don't hold back, lay it on the line and I recon you will be amazed at the companies reaction. They may bitch and moan but they will come up with something acceptable. Just remember.... It's not personal, it's just business and if your boss wants you there he will go in to bat for you.

I say if they come up with a decent salary package for you go for it. It will be a fantastic experience.

Hope this helps and all the best,
Rob


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## yaker (Aug 29, 2005)

.


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## Sokak (Jan 8, 2011)

I spent a month living in KL, and had a similar offer from my then employer when I dropped the bomb that I was moving from Canada to Australia. They had an office in KL and offered me what would have been a relatively lucrative relocation to the KL office to head up some of the new development they were starting there. Some things to consider:

KL is an absolutely fantastic city. Cost of living is not outrageous (for now) but I would strongly advise against "giving in" to arguments for adjustments to salary due to lower cost of living etc. For instance they probably have lower taxes than your home country but many countries still consider you a tax payer when working overseas. (Sometimes taxing you the difference you pay to local taxes, sometimes double-taxing you.) Different things have different costs. Cars are very expensive over there, and driving in general is quite expensive. (tolls, insurance, and even the occasional mafia "supervised" after-hours car park)

Humidity is nothing to joke about. In the month I was there I swear the easiest job in Malaysia would be a weatherman. Monday 32C/28C scattered showers. Tuesday 32C/28C scattered showers .... Whole week during the "dry" season. It's not a problem when you work in an A/C environment, but at home running A/C still gets expensive so it's warm muggy evenings with the windows open and the mosquitoes humming. It's the kind of place that you feel *exactly* the same before, during, and after a shower, and washed clothes can spend 2 days on a line and still feel damp. The rain is INSANE when it comes, it's the only time I got caught in a downburst that actually *hurt*. I thought it was hailing it was hitting me that hard. There are a few places you can go to get out of the heat, such as the Genting Highlands, but it's pretty expensive being a big tourist haunt for Singaporese. (Cool climate, Golf, and gambling)

There are a lot of pros to consider. The food and activity options around KL and major cities are second to none. The poeple are generally quite relaxed around expats provided you keep your act clean, and it's quite easy to fit in speaking English. I never felt stared at, out of place, etc. anywhere that I travelled. I certainly didn't spend much time at all in the typical ex-pat areas, I was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to stay and travel with a local, but I did do quite a bit out and about by myself with no dramas. That said, while English is quite common there, there should still be opportunities for your wife to continue teaching English there. The gov't was eager about improving their Anglo image in the region. For sea access I'd avoid the mainstream tourist areas like Penang. (Awesome food, but the waters around there are heavily used.) The east coast of the peninsula has absolutely gorgeous coastal areas and islands, and then there is the short flight across to the Borneo half. (I didn't want to leave)

KL is also home to Cathay Pacific, so you've got a reasonably priced/quality flight to just about anywhere in the world.

Provided your employer isn't trying to totally hose you on salary (also check your tax laws around foreign earned income) I'd recommend taking a trip to KL with the wife for a week or so if you haven't been there already. Have a look around price things out, walk the streets, and spend a couple nights with the A/C turned off. If you can tolerate it, or don't mind hopping from A/C to A/C then jump on the opportunity.

For me, I'd already started the paper work for a visa to Australia and spent the month in KL and traveling the country when the company offered me the option. I did have to spend a couple days considering it, but the clincher for me was the climate. The nights are generally quite warm and humid and I'm personally not a big fan of A/C. Same goes for Singapore. If only the temp and humidity dropped reliably at night I'd be living/working there in a heartbeat!


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## skorgard (Oct 6, 2007)

My reading of the situation is that you are being asked to make a choice between pleasing your boss and pleasing your wife. You say that your boss is great but presumably that is because you are a good employee and no sensible employer wants to put an employee into a position where they will not be happy in their personal life because it will undoubtedly affect their work performance.

I also have an AAEW (life is never dull). My experience is that asking her to live in a country where the climate is difficult, she doesn't speak the local language, has no social network, and will be unlikely to get a job and you are not doing it to strengthen your financial position suggests that she may not be very happy and that means neither will you be.

It is also surprising that although they are suggesting the move (i.e. it is not being initiated by you) there are not offering a standard expatriate package which not only would include a good salary and covering the costs such as leasing a car but also international repatriation packages once or twice per year.

Hence I think the most important choice is to please the wife rather than the boss. If you explain it to the boss and he is truly a good boss level he should understand and not pressure you to go or alternatively make the offer sufficiently attractive to you and your wife that she agrees that it is a good career move.


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## skorgard (Oct 6, 2007)

Sokak said:


> KL is also home to Cathay Pacific, so you've got a reasonably priced/quality flight to just about anywhere in the world.


Confusing Hong Kong with Malaysia?


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## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

A counter to the cost of living you are going to be managing a small team now where you didnt before, thats an increase in responsablilty and well deserving of a salary increase.

Cheers Dave


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## Barrabundy (Sep 29, 2008)

Ask your boss what he'd do if he was in your position.


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## Clarkos (Oct 11, 2006)

I would certainly be putting wife's loss of income on the table, or at least assistance in finding her work. Also rather than directly asking for cash, ask for flights home (Aus & Euro), childcare, housekeeping, maintained car etc.

Also the life of an expat can be very interesting, but the partner often suffers in silence (although that may not be an issue with an AAEW) with the loss of the social network. Can also be hard to break into the other expat circles, and work will be the main topic of conversation.

All the best with the decision.

Steve.


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## Joshua (Dec 22, 2010)

I have just moved to Australia from the UK. I turned down 'better' jobs that offered more money in SE Asia. For me it was all about quality of life, not just for me, but her in doors and our little bloke.

Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a better class of misery!


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

----

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## Sokak (Jan 8, 2011)

skorgard said:


> Sokak said:
> 
> 
> > KL is also home to Cathay Pacific, so you've got a reasonably priced/quality flight to just about anywhere in the world.
> ...


Ug, have I ever... That's what I get for staying up late.  Malaysian Airlines, also a decent carrier, though I have only flew them on that trip. Hong Kong: Nice place to visit, wouldn't want to live there. (Though spending some time there did explain the somewhat "funky" smell of CP's warm towels. They smell like HK.)


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

Whatever you choose, you can't say the last few years hasnt been interesting.. :lol:

You moved to Czech for your wife. Her family is there. The plan is to get back to Australia. Your family is here..

In Malaysia you have no support network. You don't know the guys you'll be working with, you need to relocate family, belongings and start a new role. You don't know whether you'll like it, love it or hate it. Theres a lot of emotional turmoil involved, for at least 12 months.

In a nutshell, its a gamble. The only reason you take a gamble is because theres a chance of a big payoff. If it was me, and my boss asked me to do what he's asking you, they would need to be offering at least a 50% increase in package.

As Ken says, find out what similar roles are paying in the US, Australia, UK etc and base your expectations on that, plus sak them to pay relocation expenses.

Either way, if you don't ask, you don't stand a chance of getting. THis exercise will also allow you to find out EXACTLY what you are worth to them and whether, at the end of the day you are in fact a valued member of the team or you're just another replacable employee.

Good luck with it.


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## scater (Nov 24, 2007)

Sokak said:


> skorgard said:
> 
> 
> > Sokak said:
> ...


Air Asia is also based in KL if I'm not mistaken and offers super cheap flights to Aus and Europe.


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## rawprawn (Aug 31, 2005)

Negatives
AEEW (angry eastern European wife) would find it difficult to get work as English teacher in country where most people can speak some English. *Stay at home mum*???? ;-) 
Humidity - I already sweat like a pedophile on a school bus without the 90% humidity every day. *Cheap weight loss*
The AEEW might want us to move back to Czech after the stint in Malaysia because we haven't finished the 5 years we had originally planned. *So what... plans can and should change*
Cars are REALLY expensive - twice what we pay in Europe *Why do you want a car? Ride a bike or get public transport. (see above re weight loss)*
Durian - aka the kind of all fruits, but only if you like fruit that tastes like a mouth full of arse. *Might be better and more varied food than your eating now *

Life is short and opportunities like this only come along rarely for some and never for most. You have a difficult decision my friend all the best with it. Life will be good either way.


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

Most points have been covered well but here are a couple of quick thoughts as I really need to get off the toilet:
They are asking you to move not the other way around so your wife's income should be taken into consideration. As should the kids schooling (private).
Tell them you need to have an idea what the package is (no pun intended) before you mention it to your wife, unless it is worth while she will veto it.
Get the wife to have an open mind and agree that if the package is a good offer and the job is a good stepping stone then it should be considered.
Is it a stepping stone back to OZ with DHL ?
All of these experiences are great and they will get harder to come by as the kids get older.
It must be close to the 5 years, is your wife going to be ready to move or is she claiming she said 50 years ?

Remember, they want you.

ps. cheap flights should be an issue, can't you just send yourself as a package


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Mate go and live in another country - but make sure your reasonably happy with your package and getting paid for for the value that you feel you are worth.

Nothing worse that feeling that your being exploited as it will eventually eat you up and piss you off.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

1. Your wife's income is utterly of importance in the equation. 
2. Your income is utterly key. 
3. Your wife's happiness and willingness is not just key but is a deal breaker.
4. Also check holidays - do not allow these to be eroded.

But, at the end of the day, no job no funds. Sometimes you have to be the "soldier of fortune" and be wherever the job is.

To put my thoughts in perspective, I returned from the Uk to Brisbane three years ago. My job (construction project) collapsed with the GFC. I had to shift initially to the Gold Coast, then to Sydney. I had to chase work and relocate. But I couldnt shift again (even though I have a couple of opportunities at scary $BIG) because i would loose item 3.

I love Brisbane, want to live there. It aint happening.


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## scorpio (Dec 15, 2009)

SALARY increase for paying house servant. Yes this is very common in Malaysia and cheap. SALARY increase for renting even though may be cheap it is still dead money you do not pay now. You will NEVER get used to the humidity. If wife is not going to be happy, then you WILL rue the day you accepted the change of location. How secure is your job in Europe if you knock this back? Must be a huge Salary increase to take wife away from family,job,and security of having her own independence. Just food for thought.


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## bazzoo (Oct 17, 2006)

Mike , as i know you and Michaela fairly well and think the world of both of you , i can anticipate Michaelas reaction to the move and to be honest dont really feel it would be fair on her no matter how much they were going to pay you . Both You and Michaela know that some day soon you will be returning to Australia so that Olivka can grow up here . I would flat footed turn it down for family reasons , unless they were going to offer you a big fisfull of Dollars and fringe benefits and Michaela was willing to TRY it for say 1 year , it should also involve top executive status as well


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

bazzoo said:


> it should also involve top executive status as well


Grand Poobah should be your new title, with the emphasis on poo.

Who could forget Barlings Beach? 8) :?


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## mal.com (Feb 10, 2007)

Gatesy

Another dubious benefit of KL is that the Hash House Harriers, originated there and you will always have someone to run/drink with.

On On 
Mal


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## Notshy (Oct 26, 2008)

They don't eat pork up there either do they? That would be my biggest drawback! NO BACON!


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## GregL (Jul 27, 2008)

Kraley is Canadian....everyone knows that.


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## Sokak (Jan 8, 2011)

As mentioned, public transport in KL is quite good, and even cabs were fairly inexpensive and fixed rates to a destination were negotiable. A car would be handy to get around on weekends, but definitely consider living somewhere near one of the train lines. They were fast, punctual, inexpensive, and A/C equiped.
The shopping around KL is fabulous, and there is a lot of variety not too far away. AFAIK you can find pork products in Malaysia. The culture is a mix of Malay, Chinese, and Indian. You'll probably notice the mix vary from city to city but overall the government seemed to be quite accommodating for a Muslim nation, it certainly wasn't like what you'd see of Iran or Afghanistan under the Taliban. From what I learned from who I stayed with, (Chinese) Muslim citizens can be detained and prosecuted if they're reported drinking... How much truth there is to that then and now, I have no idea. But there area ample amounts of restaurants serving drinks, and I'm pretty sure I'd had pork dishes. I can't remember seeing bacon in the supermarkets, but I did find many western ingredients easily enough to make some pasta dishes and Chili con carne for my host.  (Unlike in central mainland China. That was some interesting shopping experiences.)


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## MrX (Feb 7, 2008)

> "I have had good success when getting career advice from the masses on AKFF before so thought I'd try it again"


You can't be serious Gatesy. You went to a landlocked country in the middle of Europe, where carp is a hardfighting delicacy! Don't blame AKFF for that :twisted:



> "Positives
> Saltwater location, kayakfishing become an option again - YAY (sailfish from Kayak becomes a very real option)........"


Stop it right there. Bugger the package, and the AEEW. Follow the fish!!!!! Become the founding member of the MKFF, and entertain us with fishing reports again!!


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

Gatesy said:


> will now wait for the boss's chat early next week


Maybe the 'chat' isnt about the move to KL at all.

MAybe the boss just wants to tell you that he loves you . :shock: :lol:


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## bazzoo (Oct 17, 2006)

Ahhhhhh Fuff it , just come home to Aus , i miss ya , you little fat prick


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

bazzoo said:


> Ahhhhhh Fuff it , just come home to Aus , i miss ya , you little fat prick


Is that the silver tongue you use to attract in nubiles Bazz
:lol:


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

keza said:


> Is that the silver tongue you use to attract in nubiles Bazz
> :lol:


I think Bazz's pick up lines do involve the word fat prick. :shock: These words are usually followed by a slap to the face...

Gatesy, good to hear you are the golden boy of DHL. I'm still worried about your boss though, those pommy soccer fans are MENTAL. And possibly gay. ;-)


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

Hey Gatsey one of my packages hasn't shown up from the USA can you have a word


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

keza said:


> Hey Gatsey one of my packages hasn't shown up from the USA can you have a word


have you been ordering more wives online again? i thought you'd kicked the habit?


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

just stock piling before Julia decided it's not Orstralian


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## koich (Jul 25, 2007)

I think you need to throw a wild card in there.

Like a transfer to Columbia.


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## rawprawn (Aug 31, 2005)

Good luck with it buddy. Either way I think your biggest issue is going to be that the wife does not really want to live in Australia long term or would rather be at home.


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## mal.com (Feb 10, 2007)

Hi I've found retirement works very well. It is far less stressful, and allows ample time for extra curricular activities.

I dare say, a life of enforced leisure is better for the environment, and the water ways are far less crowded during the working week.

cheers

mal de mer


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## Big D (Apr 28, 2007)

It may be time to bring out the 'well they did offer me north/eastern area of Japan' ;-) :shock: :? :?


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## bazzoo (Oct 17, 2006)

Hmmmmmm sorry to hear that Michalea wants to stay in Czech republic , i hope you can overcome this Mike , maybe a stay in Malasia will help your cause if she gets away from home base for a while , good luck mate , would love to see the three of you back here in Aus


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## TRAVELLER (Sep 13, 2010)

troutfish said:


> my bit.
> 
> 3 - will be hell on earth if your wife is not happy with it, especially with the cultural differences she will face


That sums it all up !!!!


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## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

Its a shame Malaysia not going to work out for you, personally I love the joint, not as much as Thailand, or even Indo, but thats just me. Some awesome fishing and other things if you know where to look. Im surprised the dentist is expensive as Ive had a bit of dental work done in LOS (land of smiles- Thailand) and Indo and found it every bit as good as Oz and a 1/4 of the price.
Anyway whatever you do I hope it works out for the best and good luck.
PS If you decide to stay let me know I'll be up there in a couple of months we can get up to some mischief.


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## shabby (Mar 24, 2011)

As a fellow HR-ian, if they need/want you that badly then put it to them. Im negotiating a salary atm for another job i've been offered and im not going unless I get it simple as that and they know it(not the same for all companies however). It'll seem very wrong to say this seen as most people who deal with HR don't get it back but Honesty is the best option your putting it all out there to help this company. Make sure you get what you want out of it aswell.

Good luck on whatever you choose mate, all the best

Shabby


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