# Catch & Release



## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

Here's my view. There are laws in each state designed to prevent overharvesting of fish by recreational fishers. In the main, they still allow us to take home a generous amount of fish when they're there to be caught.

At the same time there are many fishers of varying backgrounds (culture, social, education, life experience ...) and so very many perspectives on what is a good thing to do. For those who think about the effect of what they do, then it is easy to come to a decision to limit catch beyond the requirements of legislation. However, even among those there will be divergent views on what are appropriate additional limits.

Having a go at people who don't share your view will rarely be productive. Live and let live (think about this!).

My personal view is that I'm always happy to take home a feed but I simply haven't had, in the last 35 years, any capture that provided more than two feeds so I'm not going to claim any moral ground here. I happily eat bream, which are abundant, but will release big breeders (personal limit of 40cm only exceeded once and that fish earned its freedom after happy snaps). Have also set personal limits on other popular species that are more stringent than local regs. As for trophy fish, I suspect that I'd be taking home the first one of each species to shut up the sceptics  but after that I'd have to think about the point of taking home a large amount of meat. I did take home my first EP, but have decided not to take any more. Won't be taking any wild bass if I ever manage to catch one


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## AdrianK (May 30, 2006)

Last year, on the Sunrise show on TV, they had a 13 yr old lad and his dad with a record marlin (800lbs) for some class - they cut its head off for a trophy and dumped the rest in the water - it upset me in the same way it would if it were an elephant or tiger killed merely for sport.

My opinion is the recent catch is completely different - it wasn't an enormous Marlin, unsuitable for eating due to heavy metal accumulation, and from all accounts the steaks went down well.

I have no problem with this situation.


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

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## Dodge (Oct 12, 2005)

C&R is very much the personal decision of the angler in my opinion, as much has been written on the subject to make a considered opinion by keen anglers.

When walking along a holiday waterfront your realize the caring fishing enthusiast is in the minority, and is only on forums and the fishing media, and Mr Average Angler is not interested in the future of fishing as he is only having his 2 weeks holiday in the sun with his family and enjoying a fishing trip, so stressing yourself serves no real value in that case...if you feel like a *friendly chat* on the merits of C&R fair enough as long as there is no anger as it has a negative impact on my opinion.

For me now fishing mostly freshwater impoundments, I will keep my couple of bass each trip [they cannot breed] and enjoy the feed without any feelings of guilt, but happily return the rest of the catch, and the same would apply to any other fresh species.

In the saltwater a couple for a feed also applies as long as its within the state regulations.

With that special 'first of species' I would make the decision on the day considering any factors that may help the decision process; eg: I have caught a small marlin on 12lb, and he was bleeding from the gills, and he was landed and eaten...if another marlin was to be caught and in good nick, he would be released

For me I will limit my catch and leave others to consider their own position.


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## aleg75 (Dec 20, 2005)

Great topic!

I am 99% catch and release, I enjoy fishing for being on the water and the sport of catching fish. Only evey take one or two flathaed for a feed that are within legal legnths (never caught above 60cm, but would most likley release anything larger as it was plenty of meat for a meal).

I generally dont have a problem with how other people fish, each to their own. The only thing that annoys me is the pros and their nets!

Ash


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## rawprawn (Aug 31, 2005)

Unless it's a stocked impoundment I recon C&R will prove more dangerous to our sport in the long run than catch and cook.

The greenies hate the fact that we might be putting an animal through stress pain and injury just so we can get a photo with it for our morose pleasure. To be honest it has never sat real well with me either, however I respect and do not have issue with my fellow fisherman who practise C&R. I also do it once I have a feed.

If you are catching a fish to feed your family then in my opinion it's going to be a lot harder to argue that you don't have a right to catch fish to feed your family. So long a fish is killed humanely and no laws are broken in terms of bag limit or size then there should be no issue. Personally catching a feed of fresh fish is one of the main reason I fish. I must point out that generally I never freeze fish and only keep what I will eat that night. This is my self imposed rule and I don't ram it down anybody else's throat.

I have noticed lately many posts where some of our members are made to feel bad because their fish didn't fit with some unofficial and imaginary size or bag limits. It's gotten so bad I rarely put up trip reports or photos anymore for fear of upsetting some sensitive sole who thinks my fish is too big and I should have put it back.

Can I suggest that if you have a problem with the fish not being released because in your opinion the catch is too much or too big etc can you use your energy to lobby fisheries to change the laws. I don't want to have to second guess what is and isn't acceptable and do not for a minute think that we all have the benefit of your scientific understanding of the impact of what we are doing or that we have this unofficial measure mat at hand.


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## rob316 (Oct 2, 2007)

Personally , i think spear fishos are there to get a small feed...i don't see the fun in it , i'd rather dive to see nature etc , but its fair and they don't kill everything.....
Fighting a fish by rod or line is a sport , in most sports , if you win you geta trophy...why not be allowed to keep a trophy fish then ? ... again , i don't agree with overkill just for bragging rights though .
Catching a legal fish , edible or not , that comes up with little chance of survival and can be used for some means [ be it pics , education , taxidermy etc ] i see no problem with keeping it .
As for paulo , he basically fought it to death , and himself , it was a trophy fish for him [ and most of us ] and it could put to good use .... simple equation .

I catch and release 95% of the time , the other 5% i am actually out for a feed....my motto has always been "fish for the thrill , not the kill " but sometimes we all take a feed home , and get a fish that is probably a once in a blue moon catch...no problems with me if its legal , and put to good use...just not every day .


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## bazzoo (Oct 17, 2006)

i think by the tone of the foregoing posts, that most of us are in agreement on catch and release, i am of the same opinion , i practice catch and release basically 99% of the time , but in saying that , if i catch a nice legal meal sized whiting or snapper or my favourite eating fish Morwong , i will take 2 fish home for a meal , but no more than enough than 2 meals , as far as trophy fish are concerned , if they are well enough to survive , release them if not humanley kill them .If you have a prolonged fight with a big fish , the odds are that it will not survive anyway , especially pelagics , so if its edible i see no harm in taking it . We with our kayaks are limited in our catch anyway , as we cant store 30 or 40 reddies or mowies, no room , i have a strong objection to the activities of the netters , they destroy more than they reap .


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## theclick (Jun 25, 2007)

I'm a bit for one side, a bit for the other.

The C&R side: I used to fish pretty much C&R, usually because I wanted to preserve fishing stocks in the already overfished and polluted area, and that I was actually afraid of the sort of heavy metals and coliform that has accumulated in fish around the Brisbane area. I think it is fair enough to say that if the fish is of a good breeding size, in a low stock area and in good condition when you get it to the kayak, I will release it. 1 released today could mean 10 more caught in 3 years, but having said this, there is an intrinsic risk in fishing that endangers the fish's life anyway. This leads me onto my take argument:

I dont mind taking a fish or two under certain circumstance: 1) It is legal to do so 
2) I see a reasonable chance that I am going to eat it (not use it as bait, i think there are much more worthless fish that should be utilised for bait, such as carp), 
3)If it is a large breeding fish, but is almost dead at arrival at the kayak, i will take it aswell, as i dont see any reason to waste it 
4) The fish comes from a healthy waterway area.

Hookin a fish is a danger too it anyway, and pure c&r fishing is not completely righteous in itself. A portion of the fish caught and released will die due to wounds created from the struggle, or exhaustion. Not to mention fishing c&r in reef areas ect, where sharks will take the fish off the line, creating non-natural feeding patterns. So there is no way that a completely c&r fisherman could be on the high horse about not killing fish, because they still do, but only for fun, not for food. I think its all about balancing up the situation to see which situation is best, if the fish has no future in the environment, eat it.. if it is healthy, or a highly possible breeder,put it back.

I dont see any problem with people putting the effort in to go out and catch their own fish, as long as they are going to eat it. Every fish on the end of a line eaten, saves 10 undersized fish or wasted stock from a trawlers fishing net, and it is a hell of alot more fun. It also produces less environmental impact, and allows people to understand where their food has come from, and brings them closer to nature, thus allowing a greater understanding of responsibility to the natural environment. But for those who waste fish, or use pressured species for bait, or cat food, or whatever, I look down upon.

As for recent captures of said marlin, I wasnt there, but from what i have read, the meat was used for feed. I can't say I have any problem with this, as I dont. it is dead set a fish of a lifetime, and the meat was used and consumed. Good riddance to you.

As for the fraser island winter tailor slaughter gang, I could not despise them more. There is no way that the people will eat all the tailor they keep, expecially on an island where most of them are camping and dont have the adequate cooling facilities to keep such fish. Take enough fish for a reasonable feed, not for a weeding reception. Massive single session catches put unreasonable strain on fishing stocks, and shouldnt happen IMHO. This also goes to people who spear territorial species such as cod on wrecks. These things have lived there for many a year, and their single existence is vital to the local ecosystem, leave it be.

So it all comes down to the situation. Look at the fish, think about where you are, what species it is, how threatened it is, and if you are actually going to eat it. After you have done this, make the decision, and be sure you follow it. There is a natural food chain, and we are part of it


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## flea (Jan 24, 2008)

Great thread
I agree with C&R as i am a fresh water fisho mainly on the murray river.
I do take the odd murray cod home,but would not take one home over 20lb as they get to fatty,& when you are able to catch one they look fantastic swimming next to the boat ,40,50,60lb fish all swim away unharmed bit of a sore lip,if they were stressed to much they would lay on top of the water,i stay in the area for up to an hr to make sure they aren't stressed
It all depends on how the fish is handled as well if it is going to be released,as not to have the scales & slime damaged.
Paulos fish really dosen't worrie me,i say good on him its up to him how & what happens with it. 
If you want a feed go for it,take what you can eat today catch some more tomorrow.
I hope i haven't made any wrong comments.
Cheers Kym.


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

I am a catch and eater.
All of my family eat fish but no other meet, if i don't catch it then my wife buys it.
Each time i bring home fish i feel great that i have saved the bycatch that would have come in with the bought fish.
I am strict on the size rules and can't believe how many kingies i have had to release because they were 64cm 

I would usually keep enough for a couple of meals as we don't have a large freezer but in truth quantity has never been an issue  
I try to target the fish i like to eat but if things don't pick up i may have to broaden my palette. (what do sargent baker and leather jackets taste like :lol: )

As for the marlin i would have done exactly what Paulo did. First fish, what an effort, i would have to see it on the beach.
I'm sure i would look at the pictures and feel bad but i would live with that.


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## Astro (Nov 27, 2006)

i always fish for a feed, and will keep a good haul if the fish are on the chew or stop once i have reached the legal limit. i never waste fish and make sure i am able to keep them to maintain their quality.

i do release fish that are undersized or are breeders (large female) mostly. i do have issues with purely C&R since it causes unnecessary stress, damage and pain to the fish. like someone else mentioned i have not posted trip reports or pics of large captures to avoid possible flaming that could/has happened here.

as for paulo's marlin i have no issues since it went to feed others, hey we are top of the food chain.....i am more disturded by stories of people C&R bream, bass etc especially when they use trebles without removing/crushing barbs, infact i feel if you are C&R then single barbless hooks are the way to go. how many of us have caught fish that have been damaged through poor C&R methods...i know i have a several occasions as well as finding dead fish on the beach that have died for the same reason.

here is an article that was posted here previously when this topic was discussed

http://www.easy.com.au/ifa/Adobe%20File ... Rights.pdf

it brings to light many issues that may confront us in the future.

i have met numerous fishermen over the 30 odd years of fishing some who agree and others who disagree with C&R and know what a emotional topic it can be

personally i have congratulated impressive catches...you know who you are...that have been kept......but rarely do the same for C&R as it is something i don't promote or encourage

i know and can see by this topic lots of members are C&R fishers and understand why you do it, but ask if fish were able to express their pain would you still do it.......


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## flea (Jan 24, 2008)

Great comments lazzybugger.
Im with you,its all about getting out there enjoying what you do & a feed for the family.
Cheers Kym.


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## greenhornet (Aug 8, 2007)

generally c&r in freshwater systems excluding pest species , in the salt i generally keep a feed of legal sized fish (when lucky enough) and through back thousands of undersized flatties 
One annoying habit is TV presenters who take ages to release a fish while they prattle on !


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## ausbass (Feb 15, 2007)

I dont know if posting the right things about C&R, but here are my veiws.

> people don't need to catch and keep 20 bream (and other species with such high bag limits) each.
> all freshwater fish should be released to enable their species to recover from our prolific floods and droughts.
> professional fisherman should have specific closure seasons like us (recreational fisherman) for species such as bream, blackfish and mulloway.
> the proper way to hold fish destined for release is to support their full body weight and prevent them from flailing around the bottom of the boat/kayak amongst all those sharp corners.   
> lip grips are great if used properly! this means not to dangle the fish vertically from them, which stretches their spine and puts tension on the abdomen, sometimes tearing their gut.  

this is what i think of the topic of Catch & Release.

just remember that C&P&R (catch, photograph and release) is the best policy!!


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## Biggera Yakker (Jan 25, 2007)

Each to their own as long as laws aren't broken (some of which lack thought and understanding anyway)!


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

i basically only keep what I can eat fresh. I don't/won't freeze fish as I think it completely ruins the taste and texture of the fish.

like others, I don't usually catch enough to feed myself or my family, let alone dozens of people.  therefore I usually dont have the conundrum of whether to keep the dozens of fish I've just caught :lol: yes I am a crap fisherman, but then again I don't really fish for the feed, I yakfish for the peace and quiet, the chance to get away from daily stresses and any fish that may happen to hook themselves on my rusty blunt hooks are merely a bonus.....

If it had been me catching the marlin I can't say what I would have done in the spur of the moment, but sitting here in my office thinking about it I'd probably have preferred to try and set it free (if it was me). I also probably would have been happy with the fight after I got the fish boatside (after about an hour) and would have cut the line and watch him swim free. However it wasn't me and I have no problems with others doing things their own way.

what i DO have a problem with are the 'new australians' who fish in my local estaury and take every bloody baby bream and whiting that they catch to mince up into fish cakes... that's just wrong...


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## paffoh (Aug 24, 2006)

<grabs milk and cookies>

Thread open, here we go...

Having fished most of my life ( None seriously, dragged along with Dad & Pop) I have experienced both sides of the coin in regards to size restrictions and bag limits. I was like a kid in a candy storewhen I first started Kayak fishing, anything taken in Freshwater was released ( Apart from a few Trout & up until Red convinced me Redfin was tasty ) and anything legaly edible from Saltwater was kept for the table ( This also included fish like Red Rock Cod, Wrasse ).

One day after a good days fishing down the coast I opened my freezer to store some fish when way up the back I found a whole Snapper, next to that some Flathead fillets and next to that an Australian Salmon my Dad gave me ( What was that doing in the freezer? ). These fish and fillets had been sitting in the freezer for way over a year, I have gotten sick from freezer burn and fish before so unfortunately these fish went in the bin to make way for more fish.

What was I doing, throwing old fish out for fresh fish in, things had to change. I started releasing fish more often all whilst taking pity on species not intentionally targeted ( Or bycatch if you like ). I started setting myself size limits for fish I usually encounter, most of these limits have not been reached but rest assured they will be applied when the time is right... I either fish for enjoyment or fish for a feed, depending on the location and number of people I plan to feed.

Nobody should have the right to grill ( Bake, lightly fry, seal, steam or poach ) people on this forum if they choose to keep a feed and are in line with rules and regulations... It is an individuals choice and one that should be respected. Perhaps a thread on AKFF ( Or at least directly links to the WIKI ) stating various rules & regulations for fishing in Australia's States or Territories should be made available, while it may not be AKFF's responsibility to educate the minority that dont know, it should definately be a feature available for members and guests to view.

After all, I get by with a little help from my friends...


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## Astro (Nov 27, 2006)

Davey G said:


> If it had been me catching the marlin I can't say what I would have done in the spur of the moment, but sitting here in my office thinking about it I'd probably have preferred to try and set it free (if it was me). I also probably would have been happy with the fight after I got the fish boatside (after about an hour) and would have cut the line and watch him swim free. However it wasn't me and I have no problems with others doing things their own way.
> 
> what i DO have a problem with are the 'new australians' who fish in my local estaury and take every bloody baby bream and whiting that they catch to mince up into fish cakes... that's just wrong...


i agree with your views davey and feel the same way......had that marlin been dumped (as they often are) it would have been different, but theres a certain satisfaction in feeding the "tribe"


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## L3GACY (Sep 2, 2007)

I'm in two minds about catch and release fishing. For the bream, bass, barra etc fisherman out there that do it as a sport and are considering or do enter tournaments i see no issue, its the best way to competitively show off your skills. For those of us that just get out once a week and have a bit of a flick in our local waters i dont think its such a great thing, we are putting the fish through stress and some fish do not release well. Following on from that point, look at garfish, i think we've all sent a garfish back to swim another day only to have it bob around on the surface because we were a bit too rough with it. Because they're so fragile (and i know this sounds ridiculous) i think the size limit should be removed and the bag limit reduced. Then no garfish will go to waste and people can still get a feed. For those that do not practice catch and release (like myself) i think that almost all bag limits need to be reduced. I think that it is ridiculous for someone to be able to go out and take 5 mulloway home and freeze them. I have nothing against that AKFFer by the way, i see it as fisheries fault.

Regarding Paulo's catch. He didnt break the law, it is his choice and i dont think anyone can blame him for wanting to keep it. There's also no point in releasing a marlin if it is on its last legs with a dozen (or 30 :lol sharks ready to tear it to shreds. Of course you might be forced to do that if you fear for your own safety .


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## Beer (Feb 24, 2008)

Something my old man used to say to me before I would go spear fishing...

"Remember once you enter the great wide ocean, you are no longer the top of the food chain"

This basically was to make me aware of sharks and such, but it folds into this debate, in that we are NOT the top of the food chain in the ocean, but we ARE a part of it.

A shark is not going to care about eating a nice sized tuna, and tuna wont care about eating a garfish. This is their lifeline. They eat to survive, as do we.
Now I eat meat, but have never killed the meat giving animal for a feed, but many have. I love fish, it is really good for me and my family so i eat it. I eat what I catch, and when I have enough to feed my family, I practice C&R. I think of it like a kid catching insects, he catches it studies it, and then its let go. I really don't see any of the fish i release harmed at all. Lip hooked, just remove hook and off they go, barely out of the water a few seconds, gut hooked, cut line and hook desolves later on. I don't use MEGA gear to catch fish, I use light tackle, its just more fun. So I have never blown up a snappers float bubble or whatever it is, by yanking it to the surface fast. I also never keep large flatties or bream, or any females with roe.

Anyway, I guess I do both, fish to eat, and fish to have fun, legally.


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## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

I just catch what I need to eat, preferring to keep the fish fresh "out there".When I catch enough I go in so a good trip for me lasts 1/2 an hour. Of course I release undersize. I agree with Gra about C&R. Those who choose to C&R its up to them, but if they get on a soapbox about it, to me they are just torturing the fish and not even have the decency to eat the damn thing 
The worst thing is catch keep and not eat, thats just wastefull.


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## Mushi (Aug 31, 2005)

I feel like I'm in both camps, like obviously quite a few people on here are. A few years back I had a big moral sit down and think about my own fishing, as I wasn't entirely happy with it all. Personally, I like to have fish in my diet. However, in regards to commercially caught fish, I have a big problem with the seafloor/habitat destruction, death of massive amounts of bycatch (inc. juveniles, other fish species, birds, mammals, turtles, etc), targeting of susceptible species, etc. Therefore I personally don't buy any commercially caught fin fish, or products (this includes canned tuna - I really miss a nice tuna salad!). Nowadays, any fish in my diet comes from what I personally catch recreationally. I'd say, 2 fillets I catch has a massively lower impact on fisheries than the average 2 commercially caught fillets.

This is generally what I keep and what I release&#8230;

Keepers: 
Bread and butter species which are abundant, reproduce quickly and which generally aren't long lived, slow growing types. E.g. Yank Flathead in Port Phillip Bay. These types are generally more resilient to fishing pressure or environmental change. ('r-selected species' if you want to look it up). If it is a white hot session, I wouldn't want to keep more than enough feed the family and a few friends. In the fresh, I'll take any non-natives - mainly just redfin and trout down here.

C & R: 
Generally larger, long lived species, which reproduce slowly. ('K-selected species'). Almost all sharks are in this category. Succulent as they are, I'll release gummies, particularly considering the commercial fishing pressure on them. I throw black bream into this category, as they are relatively slow growing and slow to reproduce. Sure they are abundant in a lot of areas, but the life history strategy makes them much more susceptible to fishing pressure, or to any rapid disturbance that was to run through an estuary. I'll also tend to release large, breeding animals for most species. In the fresh, I'll release any natives. The way at least the southern species have been f***ed over, they deserve every chance I reckon.

Like everyone else's these are just my views on my own fishing habits in the areas I generally fish. We all comes from different experiences and backgrounds, and I'm generally happy if people are sticking to the law. Thankfully at least in Vic, the rules and regulations seem to be quite dynamic and in most years amendments are made as a result of scientific research and community consultation.

btw, congrats to everyone for keeping the discussion running smoothly. I think a lot of great points have been made, and it's always nice to get a feel for the opinions of other people. It has brought up ideas I hadn't thought of, so thanks.


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## bushwoodboy (Oct 5, 2006)

I am very much from the Davey G. school, ie crap fisherman who is happy enough just to get on the water occasionally
for the paddling & relaxation. Having said that, when I fish I am hoping to bring home a feed & will do so.
I don't fish competitively or to catch trophy fish but have no problem with those who do.
I see c&r as a personal decision. We all have our moral compass we are driven by.
As long as no laws are broken, I am happy for everyone to make their own choices in this regard. 
As for Pauls marlin, maybe not what I would do, but don't have any problem with his decision as nothing was wasted.
It was a fantastic effort from a kayak, congratulations Paul.
Cheers Mal.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2008)

I'm a big believer in the philosophy 'life feeds off life' which is partly what my avatar (the serpent eating it's tail) symbolises. So it's a no-brainer that I do keep some fish for the table - sometimes the need for feed is the primary reason I'll pull out the kayak. While travelling I tried to only keep what I could eat fresh most of the time and now that I have a home base again I do freeze a few fish as well. Sometimes I'll give fish to neighbours and friends (browny points) so often I will keep a few more fish than I can fit into one meal. Ultimately, the more fish I choose to catch and keep, the smaller my grocery bill becomes. Up until last week I was eating fish almost every night. I don't go out there to C&R ever, although I do release plenty of fish, either for legal, moral or disinterest reasons.

I don't have a strong opinion on C&R fishoes. I did have a slightly one-sided opinion about 10 years ago, but I was set straight by a guy I started fishing with at the time. He was a C&R only fishermen (trout addict) and I learned a hell of a lot fishing by his side. Most notably of all, he taught me a lot about how to release fish and doing little or no damage to them in the process. Damned the boy could fish, but I reckon he could release even better. From what I've learned since then, a lot of C&R fishoes really do pride themselves on returning fish safely. They've turned it into a bit of an art form almost, and it's been catching on over the last few years. So for that reason I now just think that if people want to C&R fish, then more power to them.


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## Baldy (Oct 1, 2007)

Here goes...

The people who need educating on CnR, size limits, even the merits of fishing for a feed are also the ones who will never see or join in a debate like this, so for the most part I think we are preaching to the choir as they say.

I CnR and fish for a feed and as long as its within the law I dont have to explain myself to anyone,for the most part the laws are put in place by people who know more about sustainable fishing than I do, of course there are allways exceptions and they are up to the individual to decide. The argument of the likes of peta and co that fish feel pain in the same way we do is frankly bullshit, if you have seen the same fish caught within a few mins its fairly obvious the small hole in the mouth doesnt really bother them, Im sure we have all seen fish with some pretty nasty wounds that have healed up and the fish is healthy and fit. We are part of the food chain and in terms of cruelty to our prey I dont think we are anymore cruel to a fish intended for food than any other predator. Put it this way, we dont eat them alive, well you would hope we dont..

On the subject of Bream, they are the only local species I only CnR, partly due to pollution issues and after a bit of education on the life of a Bream. A big one down here might be 30 years old, compare that to a full grown squid at 12months old or even Paulos marlin at 2-3years, Its just my opinion but the potential age of a fish has some bearing on weather I keep it or not.
I must admit I do sometimes cringe a bit at the pics of a bunch of gutted Bream laying on the concrete at a boatramp[the last place I'd be putting fish intended for the table] I know most will say there are plenty of them out there and thats true enough but I dont think its too much of a stretch to say that one of the reasons the Derwent is full of big Bream is the lower amount of pressure on them, due to population size or fishing habits. We have our share of people that will keep and eat thier bag limits on Bream but I suspect its no where near the pressure the suburban Bream in the bigger citys see.

The hardest part of the subject to discuss is the cultural differences and your kidding yourself if you dont, Of course its not PC these days but lets not kid ourselves, it happens. At the risk of being labeled a racist Im going to say that Asian and "new australians" are at odds to what the majority consider sustainable fishing. More than once Ive been down at the wharf in Hobart to chase some squid at night and seen the kind of things that give the likes of peta the ammunition they need. And dont think a quite, polite word to them about size limits, protected species will get you anywhere most of the time, its more likely to see you cop a barrage of abuse, either verbal or physical, its never come to fistycuffs but having a head like a robbers dog might help me there a bit! :lol: . One example are the rays, the Derwent is a shark and ray sanctuary and yet they will use BIG shark lines and pull them in one after the other, cut the flaps off then dump the body over the side, dump the flaps into a garbage bag and leave it sitting on the concrete. Im not saying for one second that they are the only groups who do that kind of thing, theres plenty of ******* bogans out there who are in the same boat, so Im not a racist, I just hate everyone equally  The other problem is who can you tell about these kind of things, at 1am on a sunday morning the local coppers certainly arnt interested in chasing up a couple of blokes for taking a "sting ray" and its not like there is anyone at the fisherys who will come out and book them, couple that with the fact you will get in far more trouble for taking matters into your own hands, so what are you supposed to do, leave or stay and try and ignore it. I dont have all the answers but i do think education is the key, when I first started Breaming I had no idea how old they can get, or about the potential build up of heavy metals in our local fish, after I found out it was a pretty easy decision to only CnR them. Sure you will have some who will ignore all well intentioned efforts to educate them on a certain subject and will just continue to do what they have allways done. But I would like to think that the majority of anglers out there will listen and pass it on to others.

Oh yeah and I too dont post any pics or reports of the big fish I catch....... :lol: :lol: ....thats a perfect excuse if I ever heard one  I love it :lol:

I wont appreciate any editing of this post,Ive carefully considered everything Ive written and if you ask for opinions on a subject like this your going to get conflicting ideals, its just my opinion and isnt directed at any one member.

Kind of long winded, sorry about that, its hard to know where to start and stop with a subject like this.

Cheers
Baldy


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

I like to use the lightest gear and play my fish to the point of near exhaustion, then pick it up in my knotty net or damage there mouths with the lipper, but hey that wont be any worse than the damage the treble will do. Sit them in the yak while I dick around untangling everything, spend more time getting the camera out and taking a picky.....but that's not good enough the comp needs a photo next to a ruler so I spend more time. Then when there taking there last gasps I ease them back into the water, not because I have to but because I'm such a nice bloke. :wink: .....Except for them snappers there too damn yummy to throw back.


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## beardys (Jun 23, 2007)

The only reason i kayak fish or fish in general is for the sport of it, the thrill, the rush, and the good feel when you put that big fish back to get bigger next time you go to catch it. In my opinon if people are in it for the food the bag limit should be decreased and there should be max sizes for fish as well. I just think i enjoy fishing more when i release the fish and catch them for the fun of it makes it better. But i am not saying catching for a feast it wrong, its just not how i grew up, i let all my fish go and you can do what ever you want with yours. As for hu hu hugggeeee fish i can understand you want photos to remember as i would to and you can't help it and you probably have to kill the fish to get it back to shore.....

This is only my opinion and there is nothing wrong with what others say. ,
Happy fishing.
Tom.


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## Sunhobie (Jun 22, 2006)

I once saw a couple of massive Marlin brought to weigh-in at a Gamefishing tournament. They were over 300kg and 500kg. After the weighing and subsequent back-slapping and flagellation, the fish were lowered from the gantry and left on the dock for the whole weekend.
I nearly cried seeing such majestic animals killed just for a prize in a competition. At that moment, I promised myself that I would release any marlin or non-table fish unless I was intending to eat it, or use it for bait. I do love to catch ,keep and eat fish.
I have no problem with people keeping fish to eat them. I do fear the emotion surrounding catch-and-keep and that the very active Green movement can use our bragging, in a case against us.
There are more billfish taken on longlines than recreational fishermen could ever hope to catch.

Besides people killing things and wasting them, my next biggest beef is fishermen using lures and other artificials on ultra light lines. The protracted fight weakens the fish and the frequent bust-offs mean that many fish escape, only to have to deal with a weighted hook or a couple of trebles across the mouth.

Well done Paul. The fish was bill-wrapped and would have been difficult if not dangerous to release alive. I'm really glad you guys ate it!

Bazzoo, you eat Morwong???? Our Morwong taste like a rubber thong!


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## Slide (Oct 25, 2007)

Hi all,

First up, I previously brought this topic up at an inappropriate time and I apologise for that (especially to the SWR crew). Should have let them enjoy the moment.

I have no problems with people catching fish to eat (within reason) or catch and release. I have done and will continue to do both. Actually I had an interesting discussion with a mate the other day who believes the only justification for putting a fish through the capture process is if it is for food. He used to be a dedicated CnR angler. Not my argument but interesting. It seems like a few on this forum hold similar beliefs.

This is in the 'National code of conduct for recreational and sport fishing'

Treating fish humanely by:

9. QUICKLY AND CORRECTLY RETURNING UNWANTED OR ILLEGAL CATCH TO THE WATER Incorrect handling damages fish and reduces their chances of survival after release. A fish out of water cannot live for more than three or four minutes because of brain damage caused by lack of oxygen. An exhausted fish played too long, may not recover. Correctly returning fish means:
• retrieving fish as quickly as possible
• ensuring that fish are not left to flop and flail around
• using wet hands and a minimum of handling to ensure that released fish have a good chance of survival 
•	reviving tired or semi conscious fish. Hold the fish gently and move it forward to force water through its gills. When it has revived, and is able to swim normally, set it free.

I guess add to this a quick dispatching of fish that are going to be kept.

As kayak fishers do we have any issues with the above? I think for the most part we are no better or worse than any other form of fishing. However, my view is we may have some issues with the above when targeting monster fish. I suspect we take longer to tire them out and have issues handling them once they have been brought to the side of the yak. Mostly because we need to keep ourselves safe in this situation. I have not caught any monsters so you can correct me if I am wrong. However, I guess this issue should be left to the individual to contemplate. So that's the last you'll hear of it from me. I also think that targeting monsters should be left to the very experienced. I can see a newby (like myself) getting into all kinds of strife if I hooked up to something massive.

That's my say, fire away. I am retreating to the Bay of Islands in NZ for the week (may be the safest location for me). Hope to get onto a few Kingies. I hope I have not overstepped any lines, tried not to.


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## rob316 (Oct 2, 2007)

A lot of people seem to think that those who fish with light gear are only in it for the sport , and couldn't give a hoot about the fish damage...well , it is fun yes , it is a great feeling to end the fight a victor , and it gives the fish a chance by line strain...but also , and what works for me , is that i seem to attract the fish with the lighter line....in some cases only 2 pound difference will be the deciding factor if the fish are wary or not....and for most of us on here...we have to catch a fish to be able to release it , and its not that bloody easy to catch one these days anyway !!


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## theclick (Jun 25, 2007)

StevenM said:


> gra said:
> 
> 
> > I'm glad I'm not a fish. Or a gecko. I hate geckos.
> ...


Speaking of which, they probably have some use as live bait.. could be interesting


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## beardys (Jun 23, 2007)

theclick said:


> StevenM said:
> 
> 
> > gra said:
> ...


why don't you like geckos...  i have 3 , love them .


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## theclick (Jun 25, 2007)

They keep me awake at night, and crawl all over the windows. Those american ones are the bane of my existence. Maybe you dont get them as bad down there


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## beardys (Jun 23, 2007)

don't have any wild ones in melb , mine are pets, marbled geckos to be exact. no barking  or other noises. - sorry for the exteme off topicness .


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

----

QlpoOTFBWSZTWfGwyecAACTfgAAQUOWAAoACFCo/7//gMADFtDVPCFNNqeghtNIekybU0EUz0iGmjQGgAAA1PSEyAnoABDRgOuMGJhR5jZtNBYSFMZ7l+Wg2T57UM1JsDsadHNrUPkV8FPPlJX3aIx0cjNcilqOGim5qVVCqx10QRpXKaiuI0OIKWAQe2/VINMxIcJ3qRovliTb6GsilOojApBjAHBKOFCoetoxfCft4FkrluejbK3LJES0gaQbAR29IMAnbiMuEYwPPThL/FyChGmF8Fw7nU6AaIwV0fhUwNV2ED2FA/U5Mb4LuSKcKEh42GTzg


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## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

redphoenix said:


> You're probably thinking of the asian house gecko (the one's that go 'chuck chuck chuck' at night?).
> 
> Red.


Always bark an odd number of times... true. :lol:


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## beardys (Jun 23, 2007)

barking geckos, used to have them in sydney










or like this :S not sure...









Asian house gecko here









And what i own:
Marbled Gecko









And i own:
Bearded Dragon:









They are such pretty animals , i love them.
NOW BACK TO CATCH AND RELEASE!!!!!!!,

mods if you want me to delete this post tell me  as i know it is extremely off topic


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## varp (Sep 12, 2005)

Sean (Donutslayer) cut through all the crap about C&R when he said (me probably paraphrasing) -

*"I don't like eating fish. I'm just in it for the violence"*

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

I dunno - I hate torturing by-catch and 'personality' fish so I try not to. I hardly ever bag out and I fish for the table and my table is awful big so I scrounge and fish hard for flesh.

BTW - a 1000lb Marlin has a brain the size of a strawberry.


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## theclick (Jun 25, 2007)

Sorry, it definitely is the asian house gekko that bark, like the one in the second picture, almost see through. I shall see if its always an odd amount of times 

I would give my left pinky toe for them to go away


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## Marty (Mar 18, 2007)

I dont have any probs with people taking a feed of fish home , but why take more than needed and leave them to frostbite in thefreezer  
I am predominately catch and release on most species , and entirely on Bass , any bream over 40 cm goes back as does any flattie over 60 cm   
What does annoy me is seeing pics of people with fish they are going to release not supporting the fish properly , or laying the fish on a red hot kayak floor while taking piccies  
They are pleased with themselves , as the fish slowly swims away but how many of these fish die from being manhandled and stressed 
I also crush the barbs on all my hooks for easy removal


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## bazzoo (Oct 17, 2006)

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha thats why i love this forum , we get into a deep and meaningful discussion on C&R, and end up discusing our pet Gekkos , ya gotta love it , those Gekkos look beautiful :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## lampukameister (Mar 7, 2008)

whether we like ot or not - fishing is a blood sport. whether we keep a feed for the table or c&r - there is trauma on the fish.

if you don't want to harm fish, beleive that it is cruel or are concerned that too many fish are taken - then the answer is simple - don't go fishing.

assuming you keep within the laws and regulations, C&R or Catch and Kill is a purely personal thing.

I enjoy a feed of fresh fish and so does my family.

I also release far more fish than I take home.

I believe in sustainability. I take for my immediate desires and very little else. I don;t take my bag limit day after day so that I can feed family and friends but I would not criticise anyone who was doing it legally (that is - bag/size/posession limts and no selling of fish). I fish with a mate who enjoys having a feed of fish and generally takes his bag. we share a differnt view - but we are still friends and I am happy to fish with him. He understands my views and I understand his. we are both happy.

if you want to keep a fish for the table - then do so. release them if you want.

more objectionable in my mind is keeping a fish for the sake of weighing it and then throwing it away. is it legal - yes. would I do it - I don;t think so - but I have never been in the position so it is hard to know what I would do.

noone should punish others becuase they share a differnt view. if you want to be wholly C&R - then good on you - but just because someone wants a feed, don't do the holier than thou thing and force your own opinion.


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

i think all Gecko's should be released, even the one that obviously got his tail caught in the door.
:lol:


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## enyaw (Jan 21, 2008)

I better be careful here, last post I replied to got locked.

If I offended anyone with that post I sincerly apologise.

I grew up in Western Victoria, the wimmera district, and have hunted with my Pop and my uncles since a very early age. Shooting Rabbits, Ducks, galahs, Pigeons, Quail and also fished a fair bit in the local river and lakes. I was always taught to take only enough for a feed, this way you can always come back another day for more. This was back in the early seventies and I still fish this way. No longer shoot.

I actually fish now to get out and get some exercise, fresh air and time out by myself. Catching and releasing is probably my way of fishing these days, I will only keep legal fish if there is no hope of it surviving release.

As for Paulo's fish, after thinking hard about it I would have made the same decision as he has. Well done again with the great catch.

Wayne


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## Astro (Nov 27, 2006)

oh well...it's been a while since a serious post has degenerated into mindless dribble.....

i like my geckos bbq'ed btw


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2008)

I'm all for catch and release for the freshwater fish I catch.

Here's a link to a site I frequent explaining the best way to do it, Hope this is allowed?

http://www.sweetwaterfishing.com.au/For ... 7.html#new

Cheers


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## kayakfisherman (Jan 4, 2006)

I agree with Kraley, which is a great post BTW

As I see it the separation of fishing folk into the C&R versus C&E camps is a product of different views on how to address the political issues that are at risk of making fishing socially unpalatable.

To state the obvious, the two key political issues are the sustainability and morality. C&R advocates argue that their approach is more sustainable, and that it is more respectful of life. C&E advocates argue that C&R inevitability results in some fish being killed or injured, and that C&R inflicts unnecessary pain and suffering on fish.

I believe that a failure to address the moral issues poses the biggest threat to sport/recreational fishing. Even though sustainability is a real issue that needs to be addressed urgently, the moral issues will still be there even after fishing stocks finally end up being managed properly.

My view is that fishing is moral, and my reasons are very simple. We are part of the food chain. Full stop. You cannot switch off millions of years of evolution with a suit and tie, and proclaim that the age of the hunter is dead. Those who oppose the fishing are still hunters, but instead their energies are focused on their careers, having the biggest and best house in the street, or controlling some poor sap's life. They may not hunt animals directly, but they do cause the death of animals through unsustainable consumerism.

The most sustainable, and arguably the most moral societies, were hunter and gather societies. I say moral, not because I have some naïve belief in the "noble savage", but because there was no layer of hypocrisy between lying between their motives and their actions.

We aren't living in a hunter and gather society, so obviously our moral code will be different. However, there are still at least two things that have not changed - if we don't eat we will die, and we have been genetically programmed to enjoy the thrill of the hunt. I think it is far better if I address those needs by being a direct part of the circle of life that is the food chain - rather than fill those needs by proxy through other food sources and activities that will at the very least have as much impact on the eco-system, both in terms of sustainability, and morality. At least when I fish I am more respectful and less wasteful of life. For example, there are not many people that would feel guilty about chucking out a half finished hamburger, even though producing the hamburger involved clearing land, polluting water with fertilizer run off, etc, etc. I have literally had meals with work colleagues that frown on the fact that I enjoy fishing, yet have no problem discarding a half finished alantic salmon. On the other hand, I have never wasted any fish I have caught, because the connection is too direct for me to disrespect the prey; even if on the very rare occassion I discover that a fish is too nasty to eat (long toms!), I still take the time to prep them to use as bait.

That's my two cents

Cheers
Brian


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## Astro (Nov 27, 2006)

very articulate and well written brian....found myself nodding as i was reading your post.....


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## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

Astro said:


> very articulate and well written brian....found myself nodding as i was reading your post.....


I'll second that.
I thank the fish before I eat it. Must be the balinese Hindu rubbing off on me. :lol:


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

Great post Brian.

The greatest threats to the continuance of recreational fishing are degradation of the aquatic environment and the moral arguments of the animal rights movement that fishing is cruel. The cruelty argument impinges directly on C&R fishing, which is characterised as cruelty without just cause. C&R fishing has already been banned in Germany. Livebaiting is another part of fishing that is often challenged along similar lines.

If we want to continue to pursue C&R and livebaiting, we will have to address the cruelty issue directly. Unfortunately this is a complex area, there are scientific publications that contradict each other and there are many groups willing to cherry-pick these articles to support positions that they have arrived at by other, non-scientific, thought processes. We only have to look at the shallow coverage in the popular press of environmental issues to know that we are not going to see a reasoned and civilised public debate on these matters. Rather, once the animal rightists have gained more success in Europe, their local counterparts will begin lobbying hard here to stop C&R fishing and live baiting. They will not need to prove that such activities are cruel, they will merely need to state that it is to win the support of large portions of the population. Then it will simply be a matter of expedience for a government to give in to them to win preferences in a coming election.

I don't believe that C&R or live baiting are cruel. For these activities to be cruel requires that they cause fish psychological trauma so that after having been released they are not able to function as they once were. There are several reasons why fish do not suffer such trauma:

* They are incapable of doing so, not having a brain that functions anything like ours. THe projection of trauma onto fish is pure anthropomorphism that is not supported by scientific studies. There is good evolutionary reason for this. Imagine how fish could possibly flourish if they were like Marlin in Finding Nemo;

* Fish live in an extremely traumatic environment. Largely exposed in vast bodies of water and part of a food chain in which very few fish get to grow old. If fish were able to be traumatised by having been hooked or live baited then their entire lives would be a complete nightmare of near miss after near miss, combined with their own savagery in predating upon other fish.

This issue of cruelty and arguments dismissing it should really be a topic in its own right, or even an article in the wiki that we can reference. I'll do a bit more investigation and put up something that we can use to counter the cruelty argument when raised


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## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

A few months back on ABC a biologically sustainable hobbyfarmer said something along these lines, "I never eat anything I'm not prepared to kill. By doing that, I am answerable to my conscience". He loaded his rifle and shot an organically fed cow.

Apart from a few bluewater and barra exceptions, the sport in yak fishing is primarily in the paddling. Associating sport with fishing is percieved by many anglers, as a publicly acceptable way to justify the activity. Catch and release could easily be pigeoholed as sport if C&R is the central objective of your fishing pursuit. If the intention is to get a feed and then release the fish that don't meet the legislation then its harder to classify as sport and remains a civil right.

Green groups and government have little time for anglers who cite sport as a justifiable excuse for fishing. Exersing our right to feed ourselves is the only viable way to preserve our recreational fishing industry. As long as is acceptable for Government to allow the bulk export of premium fisheries product while denying its citizens a readily available local resource, recreational anglers in this country have a valid case to go fishing in areas where the fish are known to congregate.

Footnote: As yak anglers do you want to be broadcast on ESPN or the Lifestyle channel?


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## Rick (Dec 19, 2006)

Totally agree very articulate and well written Brian....I to found myself nodding as I was reading the post. Mostly I eat what I catch and never take more than my immediate need. Although there are days when I just want to be out on the water and because I enjoy the thrill of the hunt I practise C&R

Unfortunately there seems to be an underlying thread that the C&R fishing brigade link are inadvertently fuelling, the cruelty argument. This opens the door to the section of the community that who would prefer AKFF to become AKF! Their position which is characterised as cruelty without just cause dictates our efforts should be united so as we can counter the cruelty argument when raised. 
Maybe the next bumper sticker should have a tag...I fish because I care for the environment.

One thing is for sure if all fisho's do not start making a noise recreational fishing will ultimately be banned.


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## fishingchap (Sep 7, 2007)

if the greeenies dont like wat we're doin then y dont they try and stop the hunting of animals

if the govenment didnt have trawlers then the rec fishing would be great and the greenies wouldnt have to find a excuse about us

but then again the government gets to much money out of it  

i hope i havent stepped out of line


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## Astro (Nov 27, 2006)

fishingchap said:


> if the greeenies dont like wat we're doin then y dont they try and stop the hunting of animals
> 
> they do try, i used to hunt and still have an interest...who do think is behind our strict guns laws???
> 
> ...


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## Astro (Nov 27, 2006)

gra said:


> Astro said:
> 
> 
> > fishingchap said:
> ...


yeah are probably rightb gra...lets stick to fishing


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Respect to the fish and to the environment. Only take what you need..... return what you dont.. and return it safely if you can. Kill the fish cleanly and eat it is as fresh as you can. In this way as a meat eater I think you can live with your consciounce knowing that the choices you made were right and that the fish gave its life to us to be appreciated in the best possible way.

Simple.....

Woppie


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## Gigantor (Jun 27, 2006)

If the fishing regulations say it's legal then everyone should accept that and visa-versa. It's fairly clear in my eyes.


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## Milt (Sep 2, 2005)

Catch and release can be a good thing, but in my eyes I love eating fish and will happily take what I determine to be enough to feed my family. I set my self the following standards:

If it freezes well and i love eating the fish i.e. whiting i'll catch my limit "doesn't happen often, if ever"!
If it doesn't freeze well i.e. salmon i'll keep up to 8 of them depending on how many people i intend to feed over lunch or dinner the next day.
I don't fish to feed all my relatives and friends because the fish are on, i may just take one or two extras knowing they will be eaten by the neighbour who will in turn bake us a cake the next day.

I believe some fishing limits set by the various departments for certain species are far to generous and it is a shame some people aim to catch there limit when the size of the fish caught is quite large. You'd hope in most cases the fish isn't wasted but you just can't stop these people "I should know some of my relatives fish with this mind unfortunatelly"

Milt,


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## shayned (Jul 12, 2006)

Personally I just catch so I get a chance to kiss them without anyone thinking I'm strange.


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## Chop (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm mainly a cpr fisherman, I'll fish for a feed every now and then. same with fishermen that catch for a feed, nothing wrong with them both if its done within regulations.
The whole cruelty thing is a big can of worms though, i target fish with lures that can crush barbs without batting an eyelid. They crush and eat crustateans even the odd rock, so lip and mouth trauma is minimal if any. Can be a bit different if targeting soft mouthed fish.
And the amount of times fishing for a feed ive had fish come off the hooks before getting it to the surface is alot, you dont know whats happened to that fish, how it was hooked etc because you didnt see it. whats not cruel about that? 
Anyway i didnt catch it but i admired it and took a photo. and let it keep walking on!










chop


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## Astro (Nov 27, 2006)

shayned said:


> Personally I just catch so I get a chance to kiss them without anyone thinking I'm strange.


weirdo........


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## AndyC (Feb 29, 2008)

I have read all the posts on this thread and I too would congratulate all participants on the respect and tolerance that has been shown of differing views on what is obviously an emotive issue.

I believe that the decision to practice C&R (or not) is a personal one and every person should be free to make that decision (thoughtfully) for themselves, without being bludgeoned into compromising that view by the weight of alternative opinion. If it is legal according to current rules and regulations, that is good enough for me.

Having said that, I don't parctice C&R fishing at all, beyond compliance with the law (returning undersized or protected species). My personal view is that to hunt any creature just for the fun of it is cruel. If I catch it and it is legal, it is dinner. I don't exceed bag limits, contravene regulations or ignore size limits. I find very difficult to understand, the arguments that fish don't suffer in the process of being hooked, captured, dragged from their environment, handled, photographed and returned. If they don't suffer, why do they struggle so?

And with the greatest respect to the author, I am puzzled by the following:



Peril said:


> Great post Brian.


I don't believe that C&R or live baiting are cruel. For these activities to be cruel requires that they cause fish psychological trauma so that after having been released they are not able to function as they once were. There are several reasons why fish do not suffer such trauma: (end quote}

Does this mean that cruelty is limited to those actions which involve psychological trauma? Does physical trauma not involve cruelty? Is it realistic to imagine that a creature that doesn't remember its suffering (so far as we know) was not therefore subjected to cruelty?

I hope I am not out of school in asking these questions.

Cheers All,

AndyC


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

AndyC said:


> Does this mean that cruelty is limited to those actions which involve psychological trauma? Does physical trauma not involve cruelty? Is it realistic to imagine that a creature that doesn't remember its suffering (so far as we know) was not therefore subjected to cruelty?


An important issue here and lots of uncertainty and grey areas. A quick response here but I suggest any response would be better placed in the Is fishing cruel? thread.

Definitely a good question. The main point is that we have to think about the experience of pain and what it means. Do we think of subjecting people to unpleasantness as being cruel (excluding teenagers of course)? No, many of us struggle daily with the unpleasantness of work and other aspects of our lives without regarding our lot as cruel.

There is no doubt that fish react to being hooked and being caught. What are they perceiving? Is it something akin to unpleasantness or something deeper, the infliction of which we would describe as cruel? Noone can answer that question definitively now, though there is anecdotal evidence of fish being caught several times in succession. The experience didn't put them off their tucker. How can we say they had been treated cruelly?


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## Southerly (Apr 20, 2007)

I agree 100% with Andy C, I see no point and indeed I am uncomfortable with catching fish just so I can let them go. I follow the rules, fish to eat and when I have enough for immediate needs I pack up and move even if the fish are biting their heads off.

Congrat's to everyone on a well argued thread.

David


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## Milt (Sep 2, 2005)

Some good point GRA.

To answer your questing I have always loved the thrill of fishing for the past 30 odd years of my life and bringing home a decent fish to plate up as well. Whether it be for the pan, in a fish soup or fish patties bring it on I LOVE eating and eating anything organic and fresh.

I think you will find most people who feel fishing is a chore to feed there family, are people who buy fish at the market  as its a much cheaper option and less time consuming task for them.

Milt,


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## murd (Jan 27, 2008)

My catch and release depends on where I am. If I'm out bush on a dedicated solo fishing holiday, I'll only keep one fish for tucker and let the rest go. If that fish happens to be a barra, it will usually be an undersized one (say 45cm) that I bring back to camp, as there's no point killing a legal 60cm specimen or over because most of it won't be able to be eaten or kept fresh in the heat (I have no ice or refrigeration).

At my local area in Sydney, I see fishing as a way to offset the cost of expensive supermarket foodstuffs. Unless its purely sport fishing for pelagics where once I've got a feed I chuck the rest back, every fish I catch which is edible and legal comes home with me. With mortgages the way they are, I will do anything to keep spending down and supplying the household (or the relos and neighbours) with bountiful ocean freebies is a pretty easy and sensible way to do it.

Lastly, why is this thread becoming so concerned about whether fish feel pain or not? If its such a worry, then don't go fishing. Simple.


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

----

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## Tim (Nov 11, 2005)

Are geckos good eating?


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## bushwoodboy (Oct 5, 2006)

gra said:


> Pisser. Well, I hope they dont remember what I look like and come for revenge in the middle of the night.


Gra, they do remember.......
Think Hitchcocks Birds but with fish :shock: 
Cheers Mal


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## pavariangoo (Mar 1, 2008)

I think that catch and release ethics go beyond eating fish, by this I mean pest fish. Now if an authority deems something a pest fish, I still don't think it is fair to have it killed in a cruel way.

Kristian


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## L3GACY (Sep 2, 2007)

pavariangoo said:


> Now if an authority deems something a pest fish, I still don't think it is fair to have it killed in a cruel way.


Totally agree there. All my carp get a good stabbing (and man its hard with the big buggers) before they're chucked into the scrub to feed pest foxes .


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## pavariangoo (Mar 1, 2008)

Well that is one way of looking at it


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## Astro (Nov 27, 2006)

Lazybugger said:


> A bit of publicity atm in brisbane over the large shark caught in the Brisbane River Classic, run by the guys at brisbanefishing.com.au. The shark was caught months ago but has reached a cresendo of emails to the point it became pretty public.
> 
> An article in todays courier mail has most of the experts advocating C&R.
> http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23375606-3102,00.html


most experts?? they only interviewed a couple
University of Queensland researcher Craig Franklin and CSIRO researcher Richard Pillans and they were talking about bull sharks not C&R in general

if it was me i would have let it go....no way i am pulling that into my yak....but i put it up there with paulo's....marlin a catch of a life time....


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## pescado (May 17, 2007)

This thread has been a real eye opener. I really want to thank all members for adding to what is a highly charged topic in anyones mind.

For me, there a few factors to consider when a fish it caught as to whether ill keep it or let it go. Namely;
1. *The growth rate of the fish* (if its a slow grower such as bream, ill let it go. I don't think it is fair to keep a legal fish that has taken 15 years to get to that point)
2. *The ecological importance of that fish to a particular ecosystem* (e.g. wild murray cod, big golden perch, big flathead, bull sharks. These fish form an important part of marine and estuarine ecosystems and are a vital to the breeding cycles in these areas)
3. *The appearance of the fish* (e.g. mangrove jack, murray cod, golden perch, large estuary cod, jewfish. For my mind these fish have real personality, they are stunning in appearance and don't deserve to be sitting on a dinner plate)
4. *The taste of the fish* (fresh water fish in my opinion taste bland and id rather let them go, the same applies to salmon, and flathead over 60cm)

Frankly, and i hope im not getting out of line here, I find it hard to comprehend the idea that C&R induces psychological trauma upon a fish. Providing that C&R is done correctly, through crimped hooks, pliers to extract the hooks, a net or lip grips to land the fish, keeping the fish in water, and supporting its body carefully with wet hands if lifting up for a photo, then I cant see anything wrong with it. Its when a fish is held up by its mouth, laid on grass/dirt/rough rocks/hot surfaces, kept out of water for extended periods, that it becomes stressed. Im still very much learning in this area, but would like to think that my C&R techniques have improved.

I won't ostracise people for keeping a feed of fish, as the impact of rec fishos on fish stocks is minimal but having said that, I never go fishing for a feed, i do it for the challenge, for relaxation, for fun. Tight lines..

Chris


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## Astro (Nov 27, 2006)

pescado said:


> This thread has been a real eye opener. I really want to thank all members for adding to what is a highly charged topic in anyones mind.
> 
> Chris


i can see how some might see it as highly charged but i have this conversation with quite a few fishermen and never got into heated debates of fisty cuffs, i respect the views of C&R and they have respected my views

for example every point you have listed i generally disagree with, but will not flame or abuse you for it in anyway

1. The growth rate of the fish (if its a slow grower such as bream, ill let it go. I don't think it is fair to keep a legal fish that has taken 15 years to get to that point) 
_well up here there are thousands of bream because very few go out to catch them, why would you when for the same effort you can get bigger and better_

2. The ecological importance of that fish to a particular ecosystem (e.g. wild murray cod, big golden perch, big flathead, bull sharks. These fish form an important part of marine and estuarine ecosystems and are a vital to the breeding cycles in these areas)
_i question why you are fishing for these fish in the first place as i don't see how C&R is helping_

3. The appearance of the fish (e.g. mangrove jack, murray cod, golden perch, large estuary cod, jewfish. For my mind these fish have real personality, they are stunning in appearance and don't deserve to be sitting on a dinner plate)
_you lost me here i think most fish "look good"_

4. The taste of the fish (fresh water fish in my opinion taste bland and id rather let them go, the same applies to salmon, and flathead over 60cm)
_for fresh water just add salt and lemon juice for the impoundment barra, but otherwise i agree_

see you have your way of thinking and i have mine, it is good that we can raise these points to be discussed rather then saying "i'm right, you're wrong"

thanks mods and members for keeping this thread going


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## pescado (May 17, 2007)

Astro said:


> pescado said:
> 
> 
> > This thread has been a real eye opener. I really want to thank all members for adding to what is a highly charged topic in anyones mind.
> ...


Astro, thanks for your comments mate, but these are the criteria that i base my c&r on, for fish within legal slot limits, fishing in my location of ACT/Sth Coast NSW. Its possible things are different for you up there in NQ. Im surprised that you think C&R isnt an emotive topic, surely 7 pages of responses in this thread suggests it is so. Further to that, from what i have seen on other forums, things can get very heated regarding the C&R debate, and i have weighed into some heavy arguments with mates back home who have chosen to keep fish that i dont agree with. Each to their own i guess.

Cant say i necessarily agree with your comments but i thank you for taking the time to offer some debate to what i have posted.

Cheers


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## Swamp (Nov 20, 2007)

I do a lot of catch and release fishing mainly for bream but for other species aswell. I do it because i get a thrill out of catching fish. On occasion when fishing i have wondered what is the point? I stopped fishing a school of big salmon last year after landing a couple because they were smashing everything and fighting until they were nearly dead. i do feel sad when i can't get a fish to swim away :? but fishing is just too much fun i am not going to stop 

I think the fish i catch are lucky because they get to live. When bream fishing it makes me feel better to think that i am educating the fish, teaching them that eating lures is a bad idea. 
Bream have good memories and the ones at my uncles place scatter when anyone walks down to the water with a rod, because they know that rod=pain.

Cheers
Swamp


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## anthropomorphic (Sep 27, 2007)

I don't particularly enjoy killing stuff, don't eat a lot of fish, and am basically too lazy to clean them anyway. So I generally let them go. 
Plus there's a certain joy that comes with catching a wild creature, releasing it, then catching it again sometime down the track.
Tho I have absolutely no problem with anyone who takes a few for a feed. 
Cheers,
anthropomorphic


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## fishydude (Dec 30, 2007)

G'day people, I am personally big on C&R for example, first fish in the yak is a small but legal samon trout....that fish is going back. If I then catch another right away I know the chances are good of getting a feed so I will keep it and some more. If I don't catch any more then I don't have to worry about a one-off little fish that will have to freeze and wait for company. I am entitled to keep said fish but I choose not to. If someone else chooses to do so for their own reasons that is their choice. If I catch a feed quickly I might get enough for 2 feeds then start C&R as I don't want to have my freezer full of fish. If I catch a breeder flattie then that is also going back. I love my fish and I love my fishing and hope to be able to have both as long as I can. It's not my place to make judgements on peoples choices as I'm not qualified. If people are obeying the law then I can't complain about it. I am only able to do what I think is the right thing and am very happy doing it.
Cheers
Mike


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