# Catch and release. Right or wrong?



## kayakity-yak (May 31, 2007)

EDIT:

ATTENTION PEOPLE! JUST SO YOU KNOW, IM NOT AFTER AN ANSWER TO THE TOPIC TITLE, AND THUS DO NOT WISH TO SPARK AN ANGRY DEBATE. I AM MERELY INTERESTED IN YOUR VIEWS ON THE SUBJECT. I DO NOT EXPECT YOU TO SHARE MY VIEWS AND AM IMPARTIAL TO ANYONE ELSES
(That should do it hey wopfish?)

THANKS

Just wondering what your guys views are on catch and release fishing.

I personally don't like it but please bare in mind I don't judge anyone who does it.

Basically my views are that to put an animal through a very stressful situation, and potentially threaten their life purely for my entertainment just doesn't sit well with me. However to catch something you intend to kill and consume is the natural order of life and I don't have a problem with that whatsoever.

I have C&R'd in the past and there have been fish thrown back that their potential survival was suspect, and there have been some that never stood a chance (usually undersize fish tho so never really had a choice anyway). I really hate that, and feel pretty shithouse afterwards.

On the rare occasion I will C&R if someone invites me along to do so, but I'm always torn. I'll have a great time cuz I love catching the buggers and love seeing them swim away, but I'll feel guilty when I get home. And if I had a bag of fish (that'll be the day) and they were still on, I couldnt honestly say I'd be able to paddle away untill they stopped or I ran out of lures or bait. So I end up with this constant battle in my head between my passion and my morals, and morals will not always win because fishing is so damn exciting!! But it's like when I'm out fishing it bothers me but not as much, then when I get home and think about it, the guilt really kicks in. Is the hunter instinct numbing my morality I wonder??

What do you think?

Also, anyone who C&Rs with bait who's not using circle hooks - get onto em. Most hookups are in the corner of the mouth so theres a much better survival rate. And most importantly they work bloody well (just don't strike when the fish grabs you'll pull the hook!)


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

so you're happy to catch and kill a fish but not happy to let one swim away? :?

C&R is a touchy subject and causes a huge divide amongst fishermen. On one hand you have the 'catch for food' mentality and on the other hand you have the 'fish for sport' mentality. On the other hand (that's three hands now) theres the 'do fish really feel pain?' camp and on the left foot theres probably some other nutbag contingent that want to argue that all fish are evil and must be taken away.... Then theres the blokes who simply cant catch fish anyway and who don't care at all.

In some European countries, C&R is outlawed - so whether the fish you catch are over or undersized they must be kept and you MUST STOP FISHING once you've caught your bag limit of 2 or 3 fish. Theres also a huge annual fee to own a fishing licence and access fishing waters. I'd hate to see such a radical plan be implemented here.

In Australia, fishing is one of the last great (almost) free pastimes that you can enjoy at any age. As long as people aren't blatantly breaking rules (size/bag limits) then I'm nonfussed whether they keep or release whatever they catch.

Personally I enjoy catching a feed but as most of the fish i catch are either undersize or undesirable to me, I let them go (and my instincts tell me that 99% of those fish will survive just fine).


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Alot of my fish go back as their under size - 'undersize' according to the fisheries size and bag limits. Supposedly based on science and fact to enable the survival of species.

Most of those fish come up pretty quick - and in the rare case of C&R the fish are never played out for long periods of time.. so IMHO the fish are going back in pretty good condition.

It takes all sorts of people and approaches in our fisherfolk community - and aslong as they abide by the 'rules' then let people fish how they want. I personally prefer not the C&R approach but as there is no law against it then its not my business to cast judgement on those that do.

I wish more people would let other people get on with what they do as long as their damage to the environment has limited effects........ too many busy bodies trying to stop people do what they love. I feel this great country of ours is going to be all mambypamby some day whereby we will be locked out of doing the things we love to do... anyhow enough of my rant !!!!


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## sbd (Aug 18, 2006)

If I caught Clover Moore, I'd be knocking her on the head & leaving her for the pelicans. Seems right to me (except she'd probably kill the pelicans).


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## kayakity-yak (May 31, 2007)

Davey G said:


> so you're happy to catch and kill a fish but not happy to let one swim away? :?


Hypothetical situation: 
If it's a big breeder caught by chance, way more happy to let em swim. 
Targetting that big breeder with no intention of keeping it - hurting it, stressing it, maybe accidently killing it with the only intention being to get my rocks off - therin lies the guilt.

IMO fish do feel pain. Pain is present in all animals for a very good reason, and youve only got to see a fish being nipped in the tail by a pecker and then bolting off to be pretty sure they do. But I understand this is a very contraversial subject too



wopfish said:


> I wish more people would let other people get on with what they do as long as their damage to the environment has limited effects........ too many busy bodies trying to stop people do what they love. I feel this great country of ours is going to be all mambypamby some day whereby we will be locked out of doing the things we love to do... anyhow enough of my rant !!!!


True mate - greenies case and point. Even tho theres a bit I support with the greenies - if they had their way completely... (I shudder to think)



sbd said:


> If I caught Clover Moore, I'd be knocking her on the head & leaving her for the pelicans. Seems right to me (except she'd probably kill the pelicans).


lol


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## Wembas (Oct 16, 2008)

I appreciate where your coming from... the C&R debate is a hotly contested one...

I primarily catch fish to eat them - fish taste good - and the foodchain requires me to eat anything and everything that i can :lol: If its legal, tastes good and worth the effort to fillet - it goes in the catch bag. No apologies for that.

On the other hand I think that theres a certain nobility to catching a finned beast and then choosing to release it to fight another day - provided its in good enough condition to survive the release......C&R gives me a warm fuzzy feeling... ;-) Releasing fish for me is related to exceeding bag limits, or just landing something that i would feel too guilty to keep ( C&R a 1.2M gummy last week )

theres a middle ground there somewhere - but its different for each of us.
my 2 cents.


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## Slide (Oct 25, 2007)

From my experience (and I learnt this the hard way) this debate cannot be won by any side. Like others have said, as long as it is legal it is probably not worth having the debate. There is no set right or wrong, the answer lies in what you are comfortable doing as an individual.


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

I think its an ethical debate which perhaps i feel could be divisive amoungst this community.... and perhaps in this current climate (and this being a public forum) it might be best to let it be....... as this was something that was hotly debated not that long ago....


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## onemorecast (Apr 17, 2006)

kayakity-yak. said:


> - hurting it, stressing it, maybe accidently killing it with the only intention being to get my rocks off - *therin lies the guilt*.


Well I guess that does it for you not being judgemental hey? It took all of what 3 or 4 posts before the judgement comes out?

In my experience the phases "with all due respect" is rarely followed with respect, same generally holds true for "Not to be judgemental..."

Yeah Dave...it can be a sensitive subject ;-)


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

sbd said:


> If I caught Clover Moore, I'd be knocking her on the head & leaving her for the pelicans. Seems right to me (except she'd probably kill the pelicans).


Clover Moore may be a breeder but i concur KILL HER.

ps. be interesting to see if that triggers any anti terrorist capture software :shock:


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## kayakity-yak (May 31, 2007)

onemorecast said:


> kayakity-yak. said:
> 
> 
> > - hurting it, stressing it, maybe accidently killing it with the only intention being to get my rocks off - *therin lies the guilt*.
> ...


That's me judging myself as I have done all along mate, as I have said I will not judge others for their actions. Read again - "to get MY rocks off"


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## kayakity-yak (May 31, 2007)

I also never once referred to it being wrong for other people. I have always referred to it as my own guilt for what I do. There is also nothing there in that quote that I did not mention in the first post, did you read it, or were you just overly keen to judge me for being judgemental?


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## andyfoley (Jul 12, 2008)

> IMO fish do feel pain. Pain is present in all animals for a very good reason, and youve only got to see a fish being nipped in the tail by a pecker and then bolting off to be pretty sure they do.


Fish lack the brains to feel pain, says the latest school of thought
By Rajeev Syal in London
February 10 2003

Anglers rest easy. Fish cannot feel pain, the largest study into piscine neurology has concluded.

An academic study comparing the nervous systems and responses of fish and mammals has found that fishes' brains are not sufficiently developed to allow them to sense pain or fear.

The study is the work of James D Rose, a professor of zoology and physiology at the University of Wyoming, who has been working on questions of neurology for almost 30 years. He has examined data on the responses of animals to pain and stimulus from scores of studies collected over the past 15 years.

His report, published in the American journal Reviews of Fisheries Science, has concluded that awareness of pain depends on functions of specific regions of the cerebral cortex which fish do not possess.

Professor Rose, 60, said that previous studies which had indicated that fish can feel pain had confused nociception - responding to a threatening stimulus - with feeling pain.

"Pain is predicated on awareness," he said. "The key issue is the distinction between nociception and pain. A person who is anaesthetised in an operating theatre will still respond physically to an external stimulus, but he or she will not feel pain. Anyone who has seen a chicken with its head cut off will know that, while its body can respond to stimuli, it cannot be feeling pain."

Professor Rose said he was enormously concerned with the welfare of fish, but that campaigners should concentrate on ensuring that they were able to enjoy clean and well-managed rivers and seas.

Despite the findings of Professor Rose's study, a spokesman for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, which has invested heavily in an anti-angling campaign, said: "We believe that fishing is barbaric. Of course animals can feel pain. They have sensitivity, if only to avoid predators."

The Telegraph, London

Catch and release all you like fellas


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## kayakity-yak (May 31, 2007)

Slide said:


> From my experience (and I learnt this the hard way) this debate cannot be won by any side. Like others have said, as long as it is legal it is probably not worth having the debate. There is no set right or wrong, the answer lies in what you are comfortable doing as an individual.


I agree entirely with this post. I gave the topic title a contraversial one to get a reaction from people to see what they thought on the subject, not for an answer. Right and wrong are never that clear cut. It is all based on your own unique belief and morality system and I by no means expect people to share mine.

Andyfoly - that is reassuring but, I'd still be worried about the fish that wont survive (guthooked ones for example).


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2008)

> That's me judging myself as I have done all along mate, as I have said I will not judge others for their actions. Read again - "to get MY rocks off"


I certainly didn't perceive that to be judgemental of anyone but yourself and I think you chose your words carefully. We should all be our own judges, of whatever it is that we do, and why.

I C&K and C&R, the latter usually being unintentional. Undersize or oversize fish go back, and I really try hard to dehook them cleanly and quickly as possible. I aim to handle fish (to be returned) with a wet towel or wet hands and never 'throw' them back - I place them back. If I'm guilty of anything in that process, I sometimes take a few seconds to get a quick photo (but for most small ones I don't). But almost every trip I go on is coupled with an objective of catching something for the table - mine or someone elses. My attitude is that for every mouth fed that doesn't involve processing, wholesaling, delivery and retailing is a good thing in todays environmental climate.

And yes, sometimes I do stop fishing once I've caught enough (I only have a small freezer, so I don't freeze much) but other times I will try to get something for the neighbours & friends. When I was living remotely close to family, I always had them in mind when bagging fish as well.

I don't have a problem with anglers who do C&R primarily or exclusively. All of the C&R guys I know are very good at handling and returning fish so I'm certain almost all fish these guys put back do survive. And they're definitely not in it for the 'blood sport' factor either. As for fish being tortured by being hooked, I'd be inclined to replace the word 'tortured' with 'taught'. I reckon they're just helping make fish smarter. Not only does this make it more challenging (and therefore more interesting) for me to try and catch same fish later, if I'm right about it, its helping to keep creative lure designs showing up in tackle shops season after season. It'd be boring if we were all still fishing with wonder wobblers, celtas and plain-old mr-twisters


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## bazzoo (Oct 17, 2006)

Ahhhh yes that Clover No More fish , i just cant seem to get her to bite , i have trolled up and down outside her office for more than a year now , even burleyed with her new favourite dog collars in her size and studded with diamond spikes , but cant get a take not even a nibble , i really do need to hook up , as i want to troll for some big crocks up north and i need a tough bait :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## craig51063 (May 30, 2008)

hi tristan 
I catch and release 95% of what i catch . i have NO il feeling towards fisherfolk that do not c&r .if i want a feed of fish well i keep my catch .
what i dont like is people killing large breeding stock, fishing illeagaly and people fishing without a concience ie if you bag out on your limit ,good ,as long as it dosnt go to waste.
i fish for the sport and love it .i dont mind a feed of fish every now and then either .
im sure it does the fish NO HARM as i have recaught fish lost .ie lost a nice flathead next to the yak ,line broke and he made of with my plastic. next cast nice flathead netted and what do you know theres my lost sp hanging out of his gob :shock: :shock: narrabeen lake

cheers 
craig


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## kayakity-yak (May 31, 2007)

craig51063 said:


> hi tristan
> I catch and release 95% of what i catch . i have NO il feeling towards fisherfolk that do not c&r .if i want a feed of fish well i keep my catch .
> what i dont like is people killing large breeding stock, fishing illeagaly and people fishing without a concience ie if you bag out on your limit ,good ,as long as it dosnt go to waste.
> i fish for the sport and love it .i dont mind a feed of fish every now and then either .
> ...


:lol: :lol: I tried that a couple of weeks ago, but my one got too wise! I could still see him sitting there ignoring an identical lure! But yeah, mouth hooked %99.99999 theyll be fine, its only the guthooked ones I worry about, which doesnt matter if youve got the choice to take em home. I'm just thinking if your fishing up the parra river (like hen and chicken) and you really dont want to take any back. but as you well know I was perfectly prepared to do that the other day, but I did have a nagging guilt in me like always


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

Fish don't feel fear :shock: what a pile of ......
If that was the case we could just swim down and gaff them and sharks would be a lot fatter than they are :lol:

Catching them does stress them which is why they fill with lactic acid. If you catch a fish fast and kill it quickly it remains limp but if it is a long fight or it is left to die slowly the fish goes hard, as far as i know this is from lactic acid.
I think they spike tuna through the neural passage quickly to stop it spreading.

I know they suffer but i can deal with that. i prefer to eat what i catch, i figure for each fish i eat i am saving at least 20 fish in by-catch.

However your can't convince me that cockroaches feel pain, kill them


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## craig51063 (May 30, 2008)

kayakity-yak said:


> craig51063 said:
> 
> 
> > hi tristan
> ...


yes i have just relised that i cannot remember the last time i did not hook the fish in the mouth or jaw . in fact most of the fish i catch are hooked in the jaw probably because i use bigger type sp,s [i dont really know] BUT if i were to catch a fish with a gut hookup i would kill and keep it .
dont feel guilty about releasing fish.
95% if not more survive quite well [ i imagine ]all my fish released swim off strongly and im sure after a few seconds of telling all the other fish that they were just abducted by an alian they go about there buissness as usual .

dont worry about it better a fish lives to fight and breed another day than to have it killed because you feel guilty about letting it go .

cheers
craig
oh yeah 
kill cockroaches i hate the barstards. :lol:


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## bankmaggot (Nov 9, 2008)

kraley said:


> I hate these topics - because it boils down to your own individual feelings - and no matter how much you protest, you *are* yourself judging others when you question the practice.
> 
> I have said this before, I'll say it again:
> 
> ...


Well said,I want to be just like you if I grow up!


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## craig51063 (May 30, 2008)

im not judging anyone catch a fish release it, good on you .catch a fish keep it, good on you .
apart from that i agree with kraley 95%

craig


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## GregL (Jul 27, 2008)

KILL EM ALL BIG OR SMALL!!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Nah, 'course I'm joking.

C+R debates - man we've seen them time and time again, but there's nothing wrong with going over the same stuff, and its good to see that the general concensus is that C+R is widely accepted and widely practiced - and thats good for our sport, in all its many forms.
Kill what you, or you and your friends are going to eat, and put the rest back. Simple as that - and no one really disagrees with it.

However, one point I'd like to make is that we should be aware of how many more fish we are catching these days compared to 10 or 20 years ago.
Super braids, super graphite rods, advanced soft plastics/ hardbody's, better sounders, better gps - better everything these days. Look at a magazine from a few years ago, and its almost hard not to scoff at the "really basic" style of fishing. The sport has evolved beyond belief. 
Take fishing for flatties or bream in a South Coast lake for example. No longer is your average flattie fisherman anchoring up, chucking out a couple of pillies and a burley pot, and waiting for a rod to go off. Now he's drifting over his chosen grounds, possibly in a nice v-nosed punt, silently moving around with a foot controlled leccy on the front. He's casting a scented, very life like soft plastic, all around him - covering heaps of ground. He can feel every little bump and tap through the ultra fine braid, to which some hi tech flurocarbon is invisibly connecting the sp to his braid. His sounder is showing all the bottom structure, water temps, baitfish and target fish, and his Gps is mapping his drift, so he can go to exactly the same spot if he finds where the fish are holding. See what I mean? The fish have got to be a lot more careful these days, because technology is making it easier and easier for us to find and trick them.
We, as rec anglers, always pay out the pros' - with their big nets/ quotas etc, and we often will claim that "its not us wiping out the stocks, its the pro's"
I had an interesting chat with a Fisheries Officer last year during the Jess Sams Tournament, whilst I was manning the tournament radios. He was a decent bloke , and I took the opportunity to ask about the marine parks - namely the Batemans Bay park. It was very interesting. He said that they monitored one of the previously pro fished lakes (pretty sure it was Tuross), and studied what and how much the rec anglers were catching. The individual rec angler, with his bag of 5 or so flatties and a couple of bream, is making no difference. But the hundreds of anglers fishing the same areas over the course of a year IS making a big difference. We're not taking as much as the pro's were taking - but believe it or not, we're not taking all that much less, and the combined totals over a period of a few years is beginning to really affect the systems.
IMHO, Black bream in the sticks aren't wising up and getting harder to catch as I've read in the past. They are territorial, and (if you aren't already aware) are very slow growing - most bream in the 30-40cm bracket are up to 20 years old - many being at least 10 years old. The humble old blue nose isn't getting harder to catch because they're all wising up - its because we are keeping the odd one or two, and thats enough to clear a productive area of snags if a procession of anglers fish the same snags day after day.
Look, I love my fishing, and I'll always take a fish home every now and then, as we all will and quite rightly entitled to. But we should remember that the number of fish getting to breath fresh air is rapidly increasing, and its our combined response that will decide the future of our sport.
If your still reading, then cheers for taking the time.
Regards,
Greg


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## Physhopath (Jun 21, 2007)

I enjoy me fishing, relaxing and catching sweet FA, can be as good as catching your dream fish.
As a yak fisherperson there is generally no one else around to judge. 
Unless you care to share with us your tale of woe or go.

Fished on a game boat in serious competition, we dropped about 12 small Blacks on day one, trolling lures ( skirts ).
Tried different drag/strike settings on the day all to no avail, just no hook ups longer than 10secs.
The rest off the comp we switch baited, exciting as all hell, Tagging & Releasing quite a few marlin that were gut hooked.
Didn't win the comp, but " I , ME " felt guilty about it, at that time I pretty much had no choice in the matter.
We won the T&R comp the next year purely using lures, removing all hooks, including releasing a 200kg ish Blue Marlin.

Do you cut of your favourite SX-40 because it's down inside the gills of a 36cm flattie ? or try & retrieve it ?
Do you cut of your favourite SX-40 because it's down inside the gills of a 80cm flattie ? or try & retrieve it ?

NO winners here folks, do what you think is right, ;-)


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## craig51063 (May 30, 2008)

Gregl .... very good .well said .
though i dont believe we are taking almost as much as the pros , we are able to be more selective on what we keep ,ie pro netting would or does kill alot of undersize ,oversize fish every time they put the nets in .
talking batemans bay the pro fishermen had there netting licences bought back as a good will gesture to the locals and fisherfolk in lew of batemans bay becoming a no fishing exclusion zone .and the clyde would become a rec fishing haven . the pro fishers then started fish trapping in the clyde ,they were able to do this because of a loophole in the law adminestrated by the nsw gov ..........

They stopped the kingfish traps years ago in sydney and look how well the kingfish population has bounced back. more and more bigger and bigger every year .

theve stopped the prawn trawlers in sydney harbour and parra river [ dioxin, bloody csr and burger paints but thats another issue] and as far as i can tell the river is comming back in leaps and bounds .
i agree that tecnology is on our side but i just dont believe we are killing nearly as much fish as the pros are .
have youever been to paddys markets in sydney ......the amount of undewrsize fish being sold there [ mostly all of them ] is disgusting and therve been selling them for years, these fish come from pro fishers ....

anyway 
cheers 
craig


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## Feral (Oct 18, 2008)

I think the main thing is to not use line or gear any lighter than you have to, get the fish to the boat as quickly as possible. If your going to release it it will be in better nick, with a better survival chance, if your going to eat it, it wont be buggered and full of lactic acid ( IE taste better).

I agree with the comment on Circle hooks, I have caught hundreds of Bass using them, and never had anything but a mouth hook up, worst case is the occassional hook near an eye requiring extreme care on hook removal.


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## Rstanek (Nov 5, 2007)

kraley said:


> I hate these topics - because it boils down to your own individual feelings - and no matter how much you protest, you *are* yourself judging others when you question the practice.
> 
> I have said this before, I'll say it again:
> 
> ...


Ditto. I don't mind people who keep what they catch, as long as it's within the law, because there is nothing wrong with taking home a good fish or two for a fresh meal. It's the people who take enough home to feed themselves, their neighbors and their dog for a week that annoy me, because in my eyes, it's unnecessary. I release most of my fish, I only keep the ones that I will eat that night, or have been fought to a level of exhaustion that means they can't swim away and survive (rarely). I much prefer to get a good photo then send the creature back to his mates where he might be shaken for a bit, but should recover. If someone is worried about a certain method that might have an adverse effect on a fish population, they should stop bickering amongst themselves (recreational anglers as a whole), and look in the direction of the pros who are over-fishing areas like Pittwater (I've counted 15 traps between taylor Point and Barrenjoey Headland before), which simply can't deal with the combined pressure of excessive commercial angling, as well as the recreational angling contingent. I also agree with what GregL said. recreational anglers are catching more nowadays due to advancements made in tackle technologies. You'll note on most packets of plastics and other items these days a message something along the lines of, "Don't kill your limit, limit your kill". Even the tackle companies are trying to inform people that while using certain new products may help you bag out, it's not necessary to keep everyhting you catch. But, as they say, "to each his own", everyone's allowed to have their opinion, noone's allowed to force their upon others, I do it my way and others do it theirs and there's nothng wrong with either.


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## CameronH (Nov 28, 2008)

Hi all, just my two cents worth, i tend to catch and release anything i don't need for the table, i dont have a problem with any one taking a feed of fish or releasing fish, all a matter of personal preference. But this is a subject that will continue to raise its head considering that it is now illegal in some european countries to release fish. Whether or not we release or kill the fish we catch is mute point to alot of so called green groups who basically are against fishing all together, recreational fishing in particular they dont seem to have any problem with the commercial sector hmmmm strange that, sorry im heading of topic basically at the end of the day WE fish not just for the catch but for the places, the people and the experiences we have i think as long as we continue to argue amongst ourselves we allow ourselves to be vunerable to people and groups who see fit to force there moral opinon down our throats as they continue to tell themselves they are eco warriors. The most eco aware people i know are anglers because of their love for the places and the fish they target. 
Cheers Cameron


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## GregL (Jul 27, 2008)

craig51063 said:


> i agree that tecnology is on our side but i just dont believe we are killing nearly as much fish as the pros are .
> have youever been to paddys markets in sydney ......the amount of undewrsize fish being sold there [ mostly all of them ] is disgusting and therve been selling them for years, these fish come from pro fishers ....
> 
> anyway
> ...


Yep, thanks for the comments Craig. 
I know the statement about how much we catch compared to the pros sounds a bit full on - I also thought that it was a bit far fetched, although I'm just repeating what the guy said to me at the time. He fished and speared fished himself, and he did sound pretty genuine. Anyway, its no biggy - I'd love to see the figures for myself. (and to post up here!)
Smeg


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## kayakity-yak (May 31, 2007)

Thanks for the comments guys. Its good to see how many people care about the welfare of the fish, and in the end that is all I really cared about in asking the question. The topic title is immaterial, and of course totally subjective, but I wanted to grab your attention to get as many opinions on the matter as I could.

Just to clear a few things up that may have been misconstrued:

I'd be a hypocrite to say that intentional C&R is wrong, as I will still do it even if only on the odd occasion

I wont butcher every fish I catch because I feel guilty about C&R. If it bothers me that I am catching more than I want to take home, I'll stop fishing.

I love watching a fish swim free (it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling too!)

Kraley: I live in happy equilibrium with my bacteria. You should smell my shoes!

I still maintain that I am not judging. Judgement is so black and white, and something I really despise. If there's one thing I'm certain of, it's that I'm not certain of anything.

And lastly, I don't expect anyone to give a rats date about what I think. I infinitely prefer that people think for themselves, for many reasons that I wont go into. But I myself am interested in what others think, purely because it is interesting. I'm as stubborn as a mule myself and will not be swayed by the most determined SOB and hate the bastards that will try, so once again I would be a hypocrite to force my opinions down your throat.

Thanks peoples


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## Cid (Nov 14, 2005)

Lately there has been a lot of research done by the DPI regarding C&R and the following link advises on certain practices to maximise the chances of a fish surviving once released. Essential reading for all that practice C&R, I think.

http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/fisheries/rec ... nd-release

Interesting to see how high the survival rates are. One big advantage I see nowadays is that a lot of fishing is done with lures (in fact that's all I use now), which typically means the fish will be hooked in the mouth, which greatly increases their survival rate.

This link will open a PDF article on Bream, Flathead and Bass that is also worth reading. Please note it is a 1 MB download:

http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets ... ooklet.pdf

When all said and done, if I was a fish and I had a choice of being killed or released, I know which one I'd prefer. ;-)

cheers,
Cid


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## riv (Aug 13, 2008)

As a crap fisherman i dont catch enough to release


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## Junglefisher (Jun 2, 2008)

I often target fish purely for C&R.
In fact I'd say over 75% of my fishing is pure C&R.
I only use HB lures.
I use fairly heavy line.
I can only recall one fish in recent times that I did not think would live to be released. I kept it and ate it.
I think it's the right thing to do. If I only fished for a feed I would be lucky to make 15 trips a year compared to the 100 odd I enjoy currently.


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## AdrianK (May 30, 2006)

kayakity-yak said:


> I personally don't like it but ..... to catch something you intend to kill and consume is the natural order of life


Hypothetical question, kayakity-yak: If you go out for a fish (after prepping your gear, getting to the water, paddling etc), and in the first minute land a fish good enough to feed your family (maybe even a few dinners worth), do you turn around and go home - session over?

My opinion btw is it comes down to personal choice - if you are not breaking local fisheries regs, then whatever you do shouldn't be judged, whichever side of the fence you sit on. We generally keep a snapper or flattie, but let bream go, as we don't love them to eat (and the legal size of 23cm in qld is a joke) - I suspect the bream would rather be the object of recreation and let go, then join the food chain, somehow.


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## ARK (Nov 18, 2008)

I'm kind of with most people here, from what I've read. I like to catch enough for my immediate needs, and then if theres plenty of time, continue fishing and release the rest. I consider it a school for fish, if they don't like it they should learn to be more careful. The trout guys recon that trout learn not to get caught, If they are correct, then the same should hold true for other fish

Regards 
Audrey


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## kayakity-yak (May 31, 2007)

AdrianK said:


> kayakity-yak said:
> 
> 
> > I personally don't like it but ..... to catch something you intend to kill and consume is the natural order of life
> ...


Yeah I've definitely thought of that. I mentioned in one of the posts a similar scenario, that if I bagged out but still had bait/lures and the bight was still hot, I couldnt say I would be able to leave, and would in all likelyhood stay and release any further fish caught. As Ive said, I will still C&R, I just feel a bit guilty about it thats all. I have actually had a scenario like that not long ago. I walked down to the harbour not far from where I live and came accross a whole bunch of tailor busting up the surface. I ran home grabbed my rod and a metal and within 20 mins had all I really needed - 4 nice sized fat tailor. What stopped me was one of the buggers bighting me. I was pissing blood and had to go home to bandage it up. Once that was taken care of I was quite prepared to go back down, but the conscience kicked in and I thought, nah Ive got enough and I dont want to C&R with bloody trebles so I'll leave em be. However, had I not been forced to remove myself from the action, my conscience probably would not have kicked in because there is so much adrenaline pumping through me when I'm in the act of the hunt. _Fishing me_ and _home me_ have two different attitudes towards it. Which is not to say that when I am fishing I am a maniac with no self controll. It just takes a bit longer for my conscience to kick in, but it always will in the end.

So to answer your question, hell no I wouldnt be turning around! But any fish that looked in a real bad way upon release I would take home too and I'd find something to do with it so as not to waste it. I know plently of people who love fresh fish if ever there is surpluss so nothing will ever go to waste and I'll make damn sure of it.


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## Gene (Jan 9, 2008)

All this talk has pricked the conscience, I'm going to give up fishing --When I'm 95.

Seriously 99% of my fishing is C&R because no one at home wants to prepare the fish. I take the barbs off the trebles, so this ususlly makes for a quick release, although I leave the barb on the jigs for plastics. I love to catch fish but letting them go is even better.

I think it is a matter for each fisherman, and as long as they are not intentionally cruel or take in excess of their needs or the limits and respect the fish then it is OK by me.


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2008)

> I hate these topics - because it boils down to your own individual feelings - and no matter how much you protest,* you are yourself judging others when you question the practice.*


I couldn't disagree more. I have my own moral compass to worry about. I'm not bothered by yours, his, hers or it's. My own ethics, and my own actions are all I have to answer to. The only way a judgement can be made on others by judging yourself is by external perceptions. Just because someone misinterprets your meaning, doesn't take your intended meaning away.

By saying that, reads to me you're saying that we either shouldn't or don't judge ourselves, or that external perceptions is all that matters. I reject your judgement of judgement. 

Ken, you may think anyone who does things one way stands in judgement of all others but I reckon that's a fairly narcissistic attitude. I understand and appreciate that others feel differently to me. But I don't feel like those with opposing opinions stand in judgement of me. And if they are, more power to them - they'll need it to replenish the energy they are wasting.


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2008)

> Hypothetical question, kayakity-yak: If you go out for a fish (after prepping your gear, getting to the water, paddling etc), and in the first minute land a fish good enough to feed your family (maybe even a few dinners worth), do you turn around and go home - session over?


Question not directed at me, but yes... I've done this many times. If I've achieved what I set out to achieve then yes, I'll go home early and do some damn housework (which is something I always need to catch up on).


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2008)

> I gave up worrying about what you, he, or she think about my fishing a long time ago. It matters not a whit to me. I don't think I'm 'right' in a moral sense. I just think that metaphysics don't apply to fish, And it is true - I just don't really care about your opinion on the matter. Is that so bad? If I walked up and started telling you how to do things in your own life, uninvited, would you welcome me? I doubt it.


No... its not bad that you don't care about my opinion - thats good (my opinion sucks anyway - just ask anyone who disagrees). Why waste your own grey matter on my own concerns (of course you don't... or shouldn't)? And visa versa. Here's the thing Ken... no matter what you think or feel is somewhat irrelevant to me and likely 99% of the members here. I don't in any way see your own opinion as a reflection on myself. I see it as a reflection on you - and in no way a bad reflection either. And I hope thats how others feel about my opinion to. Because it's my opinion... god given right I'm frequently told. Your god given right to, and anyone else here.



> Narcisistic? Maybe (although classic naricissism has vastly different symptoms).


It does, you're right. but to be so concerned with others perceptions of yourself seems narsistic to me. And I know you're saying you couldn't care what others think of you (nor should you) but to say that another's opinion automatically manifests as judgement seems to me to be looking inwardly more so than outwardly.

My point is this: just because someone's judgement of themselves does not conform to your own personal ethics, doesn't mean they are holding you to the spotlight- I don't and I'm sure most don't either. They are merely holding themselves to it... and to see it any other way is to see yourself as the centre of the universe.

Nothing wrong with naval gazing, so long as you don't do it for too long and don't confuse who's navel you're gazing at.



> Perhaps just fatigued from participating in an unwinnable argument....


Unwinnable for sure. As others have said here, its practically useless debating. But it's certainly worth discussing. It doesn't have to be a debate and to be honest, so far, I'm pretty impressed that it hasn't degraded into an uncivil argument. Its a contentious issue for sure, but I think it speaks volumes about the AKFF that we've got this far without much or any 'I'M RIGHT, YOU'RE WRONG' tones. Had someone posted the same topic at fishnet, this thread would have been locked before the front page filled.


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## kayakity-yak (May 31, 2007)

kraley said:


> I actually think its great when others feel diferent to me - I just respond to the 'no I'm not judging you - but I *sure would feel bad doing that*' B.S. for what it is - passive aggressive (and completely uniformed) judgement on what I do for my own sport.


That was certainly not my intention. Actually the irony is the "not judging you BS" I put there purely because I knew it would be sensitive subject and was trying avoid these sort of arguments, and look how that turned out :lol: Anything other than that is purely my opinion and should not be confused as being anything other than that, and my opinion is by no means one sided in this case. I can see where you are comming from but I really think you are reading too much into it. It is hard to convey sincerity in typed words, but I say what I mean and I mean what I say, I am not secretly trying to guilt trip anyone.


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2008)

> Thanks for the comments guys. Its good to see how many people care about the welfare of the fish, and in the end that is all I really cared about in asking the question.


Clearly (to me anyway) that was your point and just thinking about that then it occurred to me that I can't recall seeing any commentary from any member of the AKFF (that has in some way participated in a discussion on the subject) who has demonstrated anything less than genuine care about welfare of fish. I think we're all agreed on the end-goal: healthy fish stocks and biomass in the oceans. That we don't all agree on the means is a good thing - it insures we don't collectively blindly follow a path of destruction. We're all just making this up as we go along.


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## Profishional (Apr 23, 2008)

As long as people follow bag and size limits "EACH TO THEIR OWN"

I practice C+R mostly but will keep a few for a feed now and then, why not I pay for a fishing license, I payed good money for my yak and fishing gear and I pay my taxes. I'm an Australian citisen I'ts my choice not anyone elses! As far as the green view of fish feeling pain so we should'nt be allowed to catch them, are cattle, sheep, emu, croc, chicken, pig, turkey, deer and roo farmers there next target. These animals don't exactly lead a painless life!
The use of soft plastics certainly aids towards C+R, it's like all fishing if intending to fish this way choose the right tools.

I fish/I vote/Ivote to do what I choose!!!!!

Catch Ya's on a Plastic!!! 8) 8) 8)


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## theclick (Jun 25, 2007)

Like my father always told me, nothing dies of old age in the wild. I feel no guilt at all in keeping in a feed, and at the same time, if I catch something I wasn't targeting (be it the wrong species, wrong size, or breeder), i have no problem releasing. I do however, don't like to target something on a big scale for the pure excitement of it, not because "the fish feels pain" (honestly, who really gives a shit, i feel pain when i stub my toe but the gutter doesnt feel guilty), but because I think it may have a negative impact on future fish stocks unnecessarily. If you talk to alot of native peoples who have survived on their land for thousands of years, most do not kill, or even stress without reason. I'm inclined to believe them, as they have a much better history of ecological sustainability than we do.

As someone has mentioned before, 1 fish i take from the ocean, saves 20 fish taken in a net. It is selfish and naive to think that buying fish from a supermarket shelf is in any way more ethical than catching them yourself, it indeed causes a hell of alot more environmental destruction. The problem is, too many of us have been removed from the grass routes off survival (including myself in many ways), and don't understand that EVERYTHING we do impacts, or degrades something else. This is where the "fish feel pain" crew come from.


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## kayakity-yak (May 31, 2007)

kraley said:


> Hello Kayakity-yak.
> 
> You know, there used to be people in 1830''s (pre-civil war) America who would go to dinner parties, then ask obviously incendiary questions about racial relations, and then stand back and watch the fireworks. They were called 'know-nothings'. They feigned that they really didn't have an opinion, but really their intention was to use the creation of emotive debate as the sheild for their real agenda- which was to foster guilt and fear between Northern Abolitionists vs. their more moderate neighbors.
> 
> ...


Gday Kraley,

I have mentioned in an earler post that I want your opinion knowing fully well there is no answer. It is like asking _is this good art or is this bad art? _In retrospect, obviously I have rubbed some people the wrong way in the way I have chosen to get this information and I appologies for that. I really should have asked; _do you like this art?_ without commenting on my opinion at all, but hindsight is 20/20 hey..

And like I have mentioned, I have no alterior motives other than to get your opinion, it may stink to you and it seems a cannot convince you otherwise and I'm happy to leave it that. But please get one thing straight, I will always try my best to find the middle ground and this may stink to you of a "know nothing" but I have very good reasons to do so. I've spent too many years fiercly supporting a belief that I know now is so unbelievably wrong (and not so much in a subjective sense) and all because I was never willing to try and understand the other side of the argument. It makes me sick to think that I was like that and I will never again go back there. I will still form strong opinions in some cases, but now I will at the very least try to see things from the other side of the fence, and in many cases I dont bother forming an opinion at all. In the case of this topic, I have conflicting opinions as I am still arguing with myself about the answer. And if I had an alterior motive AT ALL, it would be to help resolve my own argument.


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## craig51063 (May 30, 2008)

did i mention i release about 95% of what i catch !!!!

craig


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## Astro (Nov 27, 2006)

after spending 1000's of dollars on fishing gear and spending 1000 of hours refining and practising my fishing skills, often coming home empty handed...i say...KILL THE FISH...KILL THE FISH....BWAHHHHHHH....ALL MUST DIE....HEHEHEHEHEHE

only joking, i fish for a feed, if too small or undesirable it goes back...otherwise it's off to the BBQ for U...fish taste good


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## craig51063 (May 30, 2008)

you guys are really deep :lol:

now weres the chill out pills

craig


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## Choicey (Nov 29, 2008)

Fight Fight fight......

I have heard that fish have a two second memory span, therefore by the time you realease them they would have forgotten about you and the piercing you gave them anyhow.
And what doesn't kill them will surely make them stronger - better fight for the next bloke

What I dont like is wastage so as long as you do your best to minimise the colateral damage and only keep what you intend to consume or use as bait.. 
ooo ooo should we be doing that? - sticking a hook into the back of a yellowtail and attaching him to a float just to catch something bigger, or using a nippa with a hook shoved through his body just to get that PB flatty that we are going to c&r anyhow. Now I have opened a can of worms - O no.. not to mention using worms as bait, now i really feel guilty.

There are two sides to this argument and I am sorry but I am a fence sitter.

Why make an unncessasary impact when we dont have to? Good question, Great Question !!.. But we make an impact just by walking out the front door in the morning. The fact that you even have a front door made of possibly timber is an impact that you have chosen to accept. Where do we draw the line?

If people are so concerned about an issue such as C&R - instead of placing their guilt onto others - Offer a better way of doing things. You have more of a chance of changing the way people do things, then getting them to stop all together because you are feeling guilty. I for one am more than happy to accept any technique that is going to reduce my impact on fish stocks and the environment in general. Thus my reason for buying a kayak, instead of a stinky, noisey, polluting run about.

Just my two bobs worth.


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## Choicey (Nov 29, 2008)

> now weres the chill out pills


Chill pills in... Now where are my fishing rods, esky full of rum, and deserted beach...


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## txlodge (Dec 10, 2008)

Catch and release fishing helps provide much of the money and enthusiasm needed to improve conservation efforts thus improving ocean life as a whole.

Scaring the shit out of a few fish in order to entertain a vacationing "sport", to me, seems worth. Let's just say the fish being caught and released is taking one for the team.

Do not get me wrong. I just filled my freezer with Speckled Trout filets. But, we can not kill them all.

I am just putting in my two cents worth about the catch and release.


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## Shufoy (May 28, 2008)

Wow, what a topic! It's definatley a case of ask, and ye shall recieve. Whilst i think your intent of the topic was probably good, it's the kind of topic that you raise, knowing full well what the responses are going to be like. Kinda like, pulling the pin out of a hand grenade and throwing it, and wondering whats going to happen....

My views are my own, and i definatley support C&r fishing for certain species. Shallow water Bream release easy, and healthy, where as deep water Mulloway, dont. if you are going to practice c&r do it sensibly, and responsibly. Use correct handling techniques, and appropriate handling gear.

Personally i think this is a hard topic to discuss rationally as its so opinionated, and can be more detrimental to us as a community than beneficial. ALL fisherman must practice this in some fom or another, it cannot be denied. We have all thrown back undersize fish. It's not a moral question, it's fishing. We all play the same game, just apply different techniques. Accept it, and move on.


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## Astro (Nov 27, 2006)

the main gripe of those that oppose fishing is the cruelty that is inflicted on the fish in the C & R process and whilst we may show that we do care there are numerous pictures posted here and on other sites showing exactly the opposite. this is just fuel for the fire. if people were really serious about looking after the welfare of the fish in C&R then they wouldn't be lifting them out of the water, holding fish by the lower jaw only, grabbing them with their hands, using hooks with barbs etc

others have said that they C&R because the fishery is under stress, i ask is C & R helping this fishery?

anyway, this argument gets very circular,


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## bazzoo (Oct 17, 2006)

ahhhhhh me , here we are on the kill or catch and relese Carosel , or in Ostrain merry go round , gentlemen you will banter and thrust and parry this subect till there is no more ink in your cartridges or powder in your muskets , there is NO answer , only a question , and that question if you are inclined to ponder it and drive yourself insane in the process really has no answer because of lack of scientific knowledge that is set in concrete , we cant think like fish and we certainly cant humanise fish and endow them with human feelings and qualities , so i suggest that until you are told by a snapper on good authority that that didnt hurt ,or ouch dont ever do that again , you all go out and enjoy the thrill of chasing and catching fish . 8) 8) 8) 8)


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## bazzoo (Oct 17, 2006)

You see Ross you cant trust them to tell the truth , snapper are notorious liars, especially just before being warmed up on the BBQ :shock: :shock: :shock: :? :? :?


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## bombora (Mar 8, 2006)

Said it many times but pure catch and release is potent ammo for anti-fishers. The great unwashed can understand, whether they agree or not, catching a feed of fish. They have great difficulty understanding "annoying, stressing, hurting, whatever" fish with no intention of eating them. The pain issue has actually disturbed me and after years of reading anything I can get my hands on, believe they do not, because, as mentioned earlier, the best science says they do not have the wiring in their bodies so to speak to feel it. 
As for "fear" as they are played, well that's just putting human characteristics onto an animal again. I've read where fish are in constant fear, every second of their lives. They are ""stressed" and "fearful" as they try to avoid predators, try to find shelter, try to find a mate etc etc. It's their natural state. And that "stress" or "fear" does not affect them like humans (excepting the stress signs from having to live in dirty water etc, that's very different).
I'll happily kill, if I want a feed, medium sized examples of fast growing fish. Big breeders and those that haven't had a chance to breed yet, get let go. Slow growers, like say a south coast lagoon black bream, get released always. 
People should also be aware that they may be saintly C and R fishos, but that five minutes spent getting out the camera for the glory shot, and the holding of the fish vertically with dry hands, might be enough to ensure the fish doesn't survive release. Some of the examples on fishing vidoes are bad bad examples. I rarely take pics of big breeder flathead cause I want em back in the drink asap. Memories are enough. And of course they grow in memories like they can't in a photo ;-) .


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## craig51063 (May 30, 2008)

Choicey i hoped you released that jewie in your avatar ..................................................... only joking . [ nice fish ]

im trying to think up a post that gets people arguing like this one .

craig


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## Astro (Nov 27, 2006)

craig51063 said:


> Choicey i hoped you released that jewie in your avatar ..................................................... only joking . [ nice fish ]
> 
> im trying to think up a post that gets people arguing like this one .
> 
> craig


hobies used to be a good one...


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## jaredluke (Nov 23, 2007)

I catch and release, however if I am looking for a feed of fish then I will keep some. However c&r all depends on how the fish is handled, ie. if the hook is ripped out of its mouth violently or if a hook is stuck down it's throat and you stick a pair of pliers down it's mouth, it dosen't have a very good survival rate. If a fish does not look like it will survive I will keep. I also crush all barbs on my hooks as well, the hook just slides out. Although some ppl do not like to do this, I see it more as a challenge and those fisherman are probably not as 'gifted'. :lol:


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

wopfish said:


> I think its an ethical debate which perhaps i feel could be divisive amoungst this community.... and perhaps in this current climate (and this being a public forum) it might be best to let it be....... as this was something that was hotly debated not that long ago....





wopfish said:


> I think its an ethical debate which perhaps i feel could be divisive amoungst this community.... and perhaps in this current climate (and this being a public forum) it might be best to let it be....... as this was something that was hotly debated not that long ago....





wopfish said:


> I think its an ethical debate which perhaps i feel could be divisive amoungst this community.... and perhaps in this current climate (and this being a public forum) it might be best to let it be....... as this was something that was hotly debated not that long ago....





wopfish said:


> I think its an ethical debate which perhaps i feel could be divisive amoungst this community.... and perhaps in this current climate (and this being a public forum) it might be best to let it be....... as this was something that was hotly debated not that long ago....





wopfish said:


> I think its an ethical debate which perhaps i feel could be divisive amoungst this community.... and perhaps in this current climate (and this being a public forum) it might be best to let it be....... as this was something that was hotly debated not that long ago....





wopfish said:


> I think its an ethical debate which perhaps i feel could be divisive amoungst this community.... and perhaps in this current climate (and this being a public forum) it might be best to let it be....... as this was something that was hotly debated not that long ago....





wopfish said:


> I think its an ethical debate which perhaps i feel could be divisive amoungst this community.... and perhaps in this current climate (and this being a public forum) it might be best to let it be....... as this was something that was hotly debated not that long ago....





wopfish said:


> I think its an ethical debate which perhaps i feel could be divisive amoungst this community.... and perhaps in this current climate (and this being a public forum) it might be best to let it be....... as this was something that was hotly debated not that long ago....





wopfish said:


> I think its an ethical debate which perhaps i feel could be divisive amoungst this community.... and perhaps in this current climate (and this being a public forum) it might be best to let it be....... as this was something that was hotly debated not that long ago....


v


wopfish said:


> I think its an ethical debate which perhaps i feel could be divisive amoungst this community.... and perhaps in this current climate (and this being a public forum) it might be best to let it be....... as this was something that was hotly debated not that long ago....





wopfish said:


> I think its an ethical debate which perhaps i feel could be divisive amoungst this community.... and perhaps in this current climate (and this being a public forum) it might be best to let it be....... as this was something that was hotly debated not that long ago....


 eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace:


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## Shufoy (May 28, 2008)

Frankly this whole thread annoys me..

We are all Fisherman. We participate in what is percieved by many outside of the sport as a cruel sport. It's the same as any other form of Hunting, whether it be for food or pleasure, we are all the same. Catch and release, catch and kill, whatever, it's fishing for farks sake.

Either way, this thread will continue, possibly for either eternity, or untill someone gets particuarly offended and it becomes locked.

Fishing IS about catching fish, using manmade devices to fool the fish into hooking themselves, then forcibly extracting them from there natural environment, and enjoying every minute of it as we yahoo and carry on. You can then release them and hope they live, or beat them to death, brainspike them, or cut there throat and bleed them to death. Then take them home, and eat them.

Catch and release is part of fishing, as i said, it's unavoidable.

I can live with that, can you?


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## kayakity-yak (May 31, 2007)

wopfish said:


> I think its an ethical debate which perhaps i feel could be divisive amoungst this community.... and perhaps in this current climate (and this being a public forum) it might be best to let it be....... as this was something that was hotly debated not that long ago....
> eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace: eace:





Shufoy said:


> Either way, this thread will continue, possibly for either eternity, or untill someone gets particuarly offended and it becomes locked.


YES!! SOMEBODY PLEASE LOCK IT!!! I've got all the information I wanted but now it's turning into information overload and I really dont want things to turn nasty (which good onya people so far for keeping it civilised). So in all seriousness, mods by all means lock the thing I care not a jot at this point.


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## craig51063 (May 30, 2008)

are peddle powered yaks better than padle powered yaks if so why if not why ??????

cheers :lol: :lol: :lol: 
craig


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## varp (Sep 12, 2005)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm laughing cos it's true!!!


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## craig51063 (May 30, 2008)

ah yes but the wooden yaks look so much better than the plastic ones !!! :lol:

craig


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## Astro (Nov 27, 2006)

wopfish said:


> wopfish said:
> 
> 
> > I think its an ethical debate which perhaps i feel could be divisive amoungst this community.... and perhaps in this current climate (and this being a public forum) it might be best to let it be....... as this was something that was hotly debated not that long ago...


yes, but without discussion and debate how are we ever going to protect what we do?


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Astro said:


> yes, but without discussion and debate how are we ever going to protect what we do?


Yup Astro I agree to a degree :lol: :lol: - but I think this debates divides us as a group and there are no wrong or right answers here - and like I said its been done to death before (very recently) and only results in a personal choice descision. Because the whole forum is open to any one that is interested - good or bad - I feel that our musings could be used against us at a future date.


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## bazzoo (Oct 17, 2006)

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Woppie you are as ever a legend , i loved those multiple repetative quotes, :lol: :lol: :lol: in the interest of public safety and in order to distract from this boring shit , i feel it should be declared that all pedal boats be outlawed and sent back to Merica from whence the design came , :shock: :shock: :shock: this will no doubt annoy the shit out of amusement park operators who hire the ORIGINAL peddle boats out , :lol: :lol: but there you go , all OUT ,i have it on good authority that because of the action of the flipper flappers they are disturbing the very breeding grounds from whence we derive our caught and released fishies   and scores of young fry stll resting in egg form are being scattered to the currents by the errant peddler :shock: :shock: and are forever lost to the rest of the herd to grow up as orphans all alone without brothers or sisters and thus unable to mate with their sister :shock: :shock: , ohh please someone tell me this dosnt happen :shock: :shock: ;-) ;-) :twisted: :twisted: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## paul10 (Nov 9, 2008)

Hi kayakity-yak. Before this thread gets locked I was wondering were you really interested in finding out about other peoples ideas on C&R or were you trying to find an explanation for your own guilt on the practise? I take the view that in all choices in life I make decisions about what I do and I don't second guess my actions or ponder too much the rights or wrongs of what I am doing. I try to always do the right thing and if that meant giving up fishing because I was feeling guilty about it then that is what I would do. To me you have a choice to make and once you make that choice be happy in what you have decided. Thats all I have to say. 
Good Luck.

Paul


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## kayakity-yak (May 31, 2007)

paul10 said:


> Hi kayakity-yak. Before this thread gets locked I was wondering were you really interested in finding out about other peoples ideas on C&R or were you trying to find an explanation for your own guilt on the practise? I take the view that in all choices in life I make decisions about what I do and I don't second guess my actions or ponder too much the rights or wrongs of what I am doing. I try to always do the right thing and if that meant giving up fishing because I was feeling guilty about it then that is what I would do. To me you have a choice to make and once you make that choice be happy in what you have decided. Thats all I have to say.
> Good Luck.
> 
> Paul


Both really. I mean the urge to C&R is just too tempting at times so I will end up doing it, and I'd really like to be able to justify it and feel less guilt but havent really gotten anywhere by myself. You see, its easy for me to say right now I feel too guilty doing it so dont do it, but not so easy when I see some chaotic surface action in waters too poluted to take any fish home. Thats my problem. But after reading about survival rates and how to handle C&R fish properly I do feel better about it, but probably still will not pursue it as a preferred course of action.

And yes I have been just plain curious about what other people think about it, and if they think about it.


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

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## craig51063 (May 30, 2008)

i have one more thing to add

does anyone know how i can fit the mirage drive system to my tempo viking as i believe i have the perfect yak but i would love to own a pedle yak as well ?

cheers
craig


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

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QlpoOTFBWSZTWXbRpUIAAArfgAAQQKUACKgAEAAu556gIABIintU2oB6Qeo8o9IUGgDQAASgLGsGos+sqxNXLap30+BGoBM+8mjwYS0T5Mq74/NvCBgR8XckU4UJB20aVCA=


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

yep. Go the Blues!


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## kayakity-yak (May 31, 2007)

craig51063 said:


> i have one more thing to add
> 
> does anyone know how i can fit the mirage drive system to my tempo viking as i believe i have the perfect yak but i would love to own a pedle yak as well ?
> 
> ...


I can knock a big hole in the bottom on saturday if you want ;-)


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