# Important; Read This



## Scott (Aug 29, 2005)

G'day everyone. In the interest of all of our safety I would like you to read this, stop thinking it couldn't happen to you and take the necessary proactive action necessary to ensure that even if it does, you will survive the experience. This link was originally posted by Zed and Jim Sammons from LJKF kindly gave me his permission to link to it. It takes place in the US. The guy has a Hobie which like a few we have heard about recently on this forum is taking on a small amount of water. On the advice of the manufacturer he continues to use it while awaiting a replacement. Remember however that a small percentage of all SOT kayaks irrespective of the brand can leak and no leak however minor should be ignored when venturing offshore. Do not let this be a reflection upon the build quality of Hobies which in general are excellent.

The things to take away from this are the key safety factors. These are;

1. Where ever possible do not fish alone.
2. Always check your yak for leaks/water intake after each trip and do not ignore the early warning signs.
3. Always carry a waterproof VHF when venturing offshore.
4. Always wear your PFD at all times.
5. Prior to venturing offshore add some flotation such as pool noodles to the inside of your hull.
6. Keep calm and stay with your yak as long as it is floating.
7. If large predatory shark species are prevalent in your area a shark shield is highly recommended.

Anyway read the article linked to below and take the lessons learnt by the bloke in question seriously. The "landlord" mentioned in the article is a large white shark which frequents the area.

http://forum.kayak4fish.com/viewtopic.php?t=7819

Catch ya Scott


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## JB (Jul 5, 2006)

Scott,

If I can add
8) always file a trip report with firstly the coastguard or secondly a reliable family member who knows what to do if your not back (if your late by 10 minutes and can't get a hold of the person who files the report call the coastguard immendiately) - most important please remember to log your home safely with them.

regards


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## Jake (Sep 23, 2005)

Scott, I sent you a PM.
Cheers,
Jake


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## JD (Jul 2, 2006)

I've had no experience with pool noodles, how many do you stuff into the yak? I'm in favour of anything that keeps me afloat and gets me back to shore.

John


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## DGax65 (Jun 7, 2006)

I used to keep 8-10 inflatable fenders stuffed inside the hull of my OK Drifter. I figured that would be more than adequate to keep my yak afloat in case of a major leak...wrong. I took it out in the bay, popped off the forward hatch and allowed the kayak to flood. The buoyancy provided by the fenders was enough to keep the yak right near the surface, but it definitely wasn't stable enough to sit on. The best you could hope for is that it would keep it high enough in the water to attempt pumping out. It would also give you something to hang on to while you are floating alongside. Better than nothing, but I would recommend always wearing a PFD...just in case.


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## Zed (Sep 18, 2006)

> It would also give you something to hang on to while you are floating alongside.


I think that's the key. If it's rough enough to swamp you, or the leak was such that it got so bad you lost stability before you knew it, pumping it out is going to be difficult.

Z


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## JT (May 25, 2006)

Compliments on the post Scott. This is very important stuff. Things would get very black and white out there when your options become very limited.

I weigh 71 Kilos. I have found that 2 pool noodles will keep me afloat in a pool to about the chest. That theory wise suggests that 4 would keep the 30 kilo yak and 10 kilos in fishing kit above water. Now I want to make 2 important points. Firstly I would never go out with just 4. I will be doing some tests but reckon 6 would be minimum. Secondly, please do not use my estimate as a guidence of any sort of measure of what will work for you. I think it will work for me but don't know. Do you're own research.

I am also wondering if we couldn't turn this into a bit of science. If someone had a pool in Sydney we could simulate the process by adding water to a yak and adding varying degrees of floatation in the form of pool noodles. We could then create a relationship between yak weight, water weight, yakker weight and kit weight vs the floatation provided by a commonly available pool noodle. You could then get a result, add 30% for safety reasons and make the calculation available to the fine members of this outstanding forum. All care and absolutely no responsibility for the forum or anyone involved.

I would be happy to organise the experiment. I reckon I could even get access to the Lane Cove council pool after hours or something. We could document the whole thing with photographs. We would need a couple of volunteers or 3 and a yak without a sounder/transducer in it and a bunch of pool noodles. Thoughts?

JT


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## DGax65 (Jun 7, 2006)

JT
I'd love to see the results of that test. My test was just to see what happened to the yak when the hull was full of water. Going into that test I thought that having all those fenders in the hull would keep the yak higher out of the water. I was somewhat surprised by the results. If I can come up with some spare time, I might even try the test again. I could flood the hull, then add one fender at a time and record the results. 
As Zed said; if your yak flooded due to a leak or rough weather, you might not be able to re-float it, regardless of how much reserve buoyancy you've got in the hull. A kayak that is floating just under the surface is still more visible to a search aircraft than just a person. I'd stay with it, even if it is just something to float next to.


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

JT, how about a 9m long backyard pool? Bring a couple of beers and the family and we can have a fun afternoon.

BTW, I suspect that your maths is a bit wayward. For a start you have to consider the natural buoyancy of the material you are supporting. I can sit on a single noodle without sinking. In the ocean, I float. Not sure of the density of polyethylene but I suspect it doesn't take much to float it. My guess is that two noodles will be enough to bring part of the yak to the surface.

I'd test it myself but I'd then need a hand getting it out of the pool.


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## Scott (Aug 29, 2005)

Peril, JT. I would love to see the results of that test. I have 6 noodles jammed into the rear of the P15 and have been dying to (but so far too much of a "the waters too cold and its too hard type pussy") to try it myself in open water conditions. The brother in law has got a yacht and I plan to get out there with him alongside and open the hatch and completely flood the hull.

I am thinking I need to fit some flotation into the very front of the bow prior to the forward hatch to try to get it to float almost level. I am also at a loss of how to get the water out as if I open the centre hatch while the hull is submerged more water will wash in from the wave action. Maybe I need to float alongside while I try this? Any comments would be appreciated.

Catch ya Scott


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## Dodge (Oct 12, 2005)

Scott said:


> I am also at a loss of how to get the water out as if I open the centre hatch while the hull is submerged more water will wash in from the wave action. Maybe I need to float alongside while I try this? Any comments would be appreciated.


Scott a possible solution.

With the yak submerged roll it upside down before opening the hatch and any air bubble within will keep the boat afloat and you can open the middle hatch OK and if you can break the water suction you may be able to pump some air into the bung hole and gradually displace the water within to a point where the boat can be righted with the hatch back in place.

Water can only enter if it can displace the air within, remember Tony Bullimore in the upside down yacht in the southern ocean floated for days until HMAS Newcastle rescued him.

I'll sink the espri in the dam next week and see what happens


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## Dan A (Aug 29, 2005)

What about something like another forum section just to let people know where you are headed for the day  not necessarily so people can tag along as we don't always want company? :lol: but more like a safety thing.

"The AKFF Coast Patrol" - Then if someone off this site goes missing (heaven forbid) we have track.

Who knows, just a thought, it might not be all that practical.

Dan


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## JT (May 25, 2006)

Peril said:


> BTW, I suspect that your maths is a bit wayward. For a start you have to consider the natural buoyancy of the material you are supporting. I can sit on a single noodle without sinking. In the ocean, I float. Not sure of the density of polyethylene but I suspect it doesn't take much to float it. My guess is that two noodles will be enough to bring part of the yak to the surface.
> 
> I'd test it myself but I'd then need a hand getting it out of the pool.


You are exactly one of the people who I was hoping would pitch in on this Dave. I suspect you are right on the maths. I think 6 might be overkill. When you think about it though it is not just a bouyancy issue as the more noodles you have in there the less available room for water. I think distribution might also have an effect. I don't think 2 would be enough to really keep the yak up so it can be paddled/peddled. Still....there's only one way to find this stuff out. How do you feel about submerging the Pro Fisherman? I would happily do the Outback but it's got electrics in it. I reckon it could be a fun and very worthwhile little experiment.

JT


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

John, just so long as you rinse the transducer plug with freshwater afterwards I see no issue in submerging the yak (unless you have other electrics fitted. Might want to remove your fuse (I didn't bother with one). And yes, will be happy to sink the PK as well. I have four noodles here.

Didn't realise you were talking about keeping the yak fit for use. That is a completely different story. I don't think noodles would be the way to go. Only bulkheads to section the interior would give you that level of protection. Think how many litres you can put in the yak at 1kg/litre!


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## JB (Jul 5, 2006)

OK completely unpractical but I was watching mythbusters the other night and they were raising sunking fishing boats by pumping them full (in fact didn't need to be full) of ping pong balls 

Rather fun episode but did highlight that positive bouyancy can be generated by adding closed cell air pockets (ping pong balls). If you worked out the volume of your boat then divided it by the kg rating then worked out your + boat weight you would find how much of the current hull would be required to keep afloat with you on it. Obviously this is above the water line as once below the water line the bouyancy requirement reduced. For eample to keep my elite fully above water with me on it would take around 60% of current hull volume.

regards


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## JD (Jul 2, 2006)

Only a thought, I wonder if the makers of inflatable pfds could make bigger ones for kayaks? Could be fitted on the inside out of the way until inflated. Maybe one at each end of the yak.

Any thoughts?


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## Scott (Aug 29, 2005)

JD, no reason it couldn't be done I don't think. They may need to be mounted permanently inside in some manner but if such a product existed I would certainly buy it.

Catch ya Scott


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## JD (Jul 2, 2006)

Yeah Scott I was thinking it would be a permanent installation inside the hull.


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## Tim (Nov 11, 2005)

JD said:


> Only a thought, I wonder if the makers of inflatable pfds could make bigger ones for kayaks? Could be fitted on the inside out of the way until inflated. Maybe one at each end of the yak.
> 
> Any thoughts?


If the inflating sections expanded quicker that water could escape the hull you might end up popping your yak :shock:


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## Wattie (Apr 30, 2007)

Hi all,
Just read through the posts and I never gave floatation a thought.

I think that what I will use though is two car tyre tubes. One installed each end and inflate them after installing. This will allow them to spread out filling the cavities.

They can then be removed later as well.


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## grant ashwell (Apr 24, 2007)

Why not blow up your empty 4 litre wine casks and push a few in each end. Cheap, durable and enjoyable


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