# my friends bic kayak



## lonewolf (Aug 14, 2007)

Well, at the end of September I decided to buy myself a new fishing yak. After looking around I made my mind up on a Bic Bilbao fishing yak as pictured below... what a great looking kayak








So I got in touch with Mike from sea-urchin kayaks. The help and advice off mike was great, lots of chatting and a brew, what a great start. The kayak looked great having a wheel on the back so no need for a trolley.
A very nice looking hull, and to be very fair a great looking yak, so off home I went very happy to have my first dedicated fishing kayak.

kayak number 1- Oct 2nd 2008

On getting it home I had a more detailed look at the fitting and decided to do a leak test on it. This was done by opening one of the hatches and putting 50 litres of water in it then I got two kitchen chairs, turned the yak over and rested it on the chairs. To my total horror, water started pouring out of the rivets around the rod holder, in fact it was 50 litres of water in 17 Min's . This gave me cause for concern









On this rod holder you can see water running out of two of the rivets 








On this one you can see water is running out of the rivets and the seal around the rod holder 

















So I got on the phone to Mike(sea-urchin) he was great and told me not to worry he would take over the problem and get it sorted out. Mike did all the work from then on,and made a lot of calls keeping me up to date. He told bic that they needed to check the new yak for leaks before sending it out to save embarrassment to Bic and himself and to save wasting my time. The faulty kayak was picked up and I was told by Mike that a new kayak would be with me on Weds the following week.

kayak number two- Weds 12th Oct 2008.
Well, I waited in all day for the yak and at 4pm called Mike to tell him I , was waiting he told me the office had sent it but would check it out. 20 min's later I got a call back off Mike telling me that the office had not sent it out, and would do so tonight and I would get it the next day... just great, that's 2 days off work now.. that's the cost of my yak now plus 2 days off

yak number 2 attempt 2 of delivery Thur 13th Oct
Well, the yak came. This time I was feeling great, the kayak was in loads of bubble wrap and the thought that they had checked it for leaks and damage reassured me that there would be no problems and I could get it uncovered and on the water for a play. 
Well, that came to the end of my pleasure, I opened this so called well checked kayak to find a large gouge in the hull.. as you can see in the picture below








so much for a well checked kayak.
At this point my heart dropped and i decided to check the kayak out. So hatch open and 50 litres of water in, turned it over and I just wanted to cry.. this kayak was even worse than the first kayak. The water just gushed out in-fact 50 litres of water exited the kayak in less that 5 min's.. this was very bad. 








































As you can see from the pictures, this kayak was leaking in a very bad way and goes to prove that Bic did not check this kayak even though the supplier had asked them to so, as to save company embarrassment and wasting customer time.
By this time, I was very upset and called Mike again. He told me that he would sort it out and was very embarrassed that BIC had told him they would sort it out and then they send a kayak out in this condition 
Well, this kayak was picked up and taken away the next day. From then on customer services went very down hill. Every time I called Mike, he told me he had been on the phone to Bic and the people he needed to speak to were not available, then I was told they were sorting the problem out and would have a new kayak with me very soon. Well lots more calls with very few answers received from Bic.

Tues 28th Oct 2008
I was now getting so fed up with the lack of care or response off bic that I called Mike and told him to tell Bic that I wanted an answer to whether they planned on sending me a none- leaking kayak by the end of the week, and if not I wanted a full refund. it took Mike most of the day to get to speak to the people he needed to. 
And after all the messing and upset the best they could do was to tell Mike to refund me the price of the kayak. 
to make matters worse I have not had a call or letter of apology from Bic after them sending 2 leaking kayaks, wasting two days waiting for delivery and not being able to kayak on a kayak that I paid for almost a month ago.

in short, I feel Bic have very poor customer support and service, and could have made a lot more effort to resolve the problem with the kayak and made the customer feel like he was getting the best support.

The best thing I can say to anyone with a Bic fishing kayak is to check the rod holders for leaks around the seals and the rivet centres and if you find leaks contact Bic .

* I will not buy another Bic fishing kayak until I am sure that the problem has been fixed, as I do not feel they treated me as a valued customer. *

I must say, to be fair to Bic, that I have used a lot of none fishing kayaks and found them to be great kayaks with no problems.

The one thing that I must point out is that Mike from sea-urchin kayaks was a great help, and gave lots of support and I would not hold him responsible in any way for the kayak or customer service, and if he sold a different make of kayak I would buy one off him before buying from anyone else, and without any hesitation.

feel free to put it on any kayak or fishing forum


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## wobbly (Jun 13, 2007)

Mate,

I am bloody infuriated!!!!

what a terrible experience to have to go through. SHAME on BIC who in fact should be reported to the consumer affairs, the coastguard and the police for selling products loaded with obvious defects that could result in DEATH and rightly should be forced to remove ALL products from the market place until such time that product quality and guaruntees meet basic Australian Standards.

BIC are owned by a German family? What am I saying here!

Thanks for advising us fellow yakkers on the problems, in response I and many others will not be supporting their brand.

Do not leave the issue resting with the refund, contact consumer affairs immediately, pm me if you require details on how to lodge a report, my mate is a presecution lawyer for C.A. and he will provide the short cut ways of getting action.

Regards

Brian


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## lonewolf (Aug 14, 2007)

i thought it was only fair as if there is an issue with these yaks all should be aware of it  i wouldnt want any of my family or friends getting into any trouble ;-) 
i will do my best to get my friend to join up and he can answer any questions 8)


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## rawprawn (Aug 31, 2005)

Are these leeks only on the top of the yak via the rod holders? If so why would you worry? How is water going to get in unless you are planning on submerging the thing? Some people are mighty picky. My rod holders have holes in the bottom that run directly into the hull. Yet to get enough water in the hull worth worrying about.

Typical whinging POM :twisted:


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## craig51063 (May 30, 2008)

Mate i feel you pain and anguish .
If it were me i would not even consider purchasing a bic kayak after the way you were treated and the obvious lack of respect both for there own product and for there customers .

There are plenty of GOOD QUALITY made yaks around .

I am after a second yak for my wife and kids but after your expirience i will not consider a bic .

rawprawn????????
what brand of yak do you own ?
my tempo also has holes at the bottom of the fishinrod holders but these were sealed at the factory before delivery with silicone .
if it were me & for the sake of 50c worth of silicone i think i would rather have a watertight yak .

cheers
craig


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Hey Lone Wolf

Well done mate for having the sense to check the Bic's water tightness out - and as much as you have every right to demand a water tight one... I would have personally fixed it up with some silicon (if the issue was just around the rod holders)... you might have been drilling a few holes in it anyhow with a some modififcation / bling :lol: :lol: In doing so you could have been on the water a bit quicker with a few less hassels ; as it seems that you were generally pretty pleased with everything else regarding the yak. AT the moment I'll just use my Bic on my beard....  but
If I do purchase one I'll do a water test too with some silicon handy... I also wont be expecting too much though from Bic's customer support.

Lessons to be learned from both sides me thinks ;-)


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## wobbly (Jun 13, 2007)

Blind rivets solve most probs.


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## rawprawn (Aug 31, 2005)

craig51063 said:


> rawprawn????????
> what brand of yak do you own ?
> my tempo also has holes at the bottom of the fishinrod holders but these were sealed at the factory before delivery with silicone .
> if it were me & for the sake of 50c worth of silicone i think i would rather have a watertight yak .
> ...


A Prowler. It was sealed when I got it just fell out after years of abuse. Why would I bother fixing it? How much water do you think is going to get it through a hole like that? It's not like I spend hours having surf wash totally over my yak or spend a day fishing in torrential rain. I guess I'm not the type to get all up tight about a bit of water in the hull, each to their own.


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## bazzoo (Oct 17, 2006)

Theres no doubt you have a beef , but , if all of us did the upside down 50 litre water test on our yaks , we would all be running to Bunnings for silicon , if i did it on my Hobie Quest , i wouldnt expect it to hold water for even 5 mins . :? :? :?


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## Junglefisher (Jun 2, 2008)

I think the lesson to be learnt is that if you want to use your kayak to store water, don't tip it upside down.
Seriously, most hatch covers would lose water far quicker than that, I'm not surprised he got poor service from Bic.
Do you imgaine Ford would jump at your command if you complained that the tyres needed air put in them every now and then?

<Edit> lol, snap GaryP


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## garyp (May 30, 2008)

If planning to use kayak as a water storage container DO NOT BUY A BIC!

If planning to sit on top of it and paddle on the water BIC KAYAK MAY BE AN OPTION.

As for those German owned companies I am pretty certain if you fill an Audi, BMW, Porsche or Mercedes with water and turn them upside down they will leak as well. Must be a German conspiracy - who has the number of that lawyer for me?

Gary (Ze Austrian)


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

Please understand that this has been posted by Lonewolf who is NOT LOCATED IN AUSTRALIA. He is in Wales.

As far as I can tell it is NOT Lonewolfs kayak that is shown in the thread. It looks like he has simply cut and pasted this thread from another kayak forum. He does not advise where this problem happened (which country?) so we do not know whether the same problems affect Bic kayaks world-wide.

Lonewold -perhaps you CAN advise on which kayak forum you found this post. Was it UK based or US based?

However I agree that it looks like BIC definitely should have more stringent quality control measures than shown. If they've added rod holders without using silicone/gasket and blind/sealed rivets or bolts then they deserve to be given a roasting.

But they do make bloody good lighters and pens. :lol:


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## Shufoy (May 28, 2008)

Hmm interesting post.



> Well, at the end of September I decided to buy myself a new fishing yak. After looking around I made my mind up on a Bic Bilbao fishing yak as pictured below... what a great looking kayak


Is this your kayak or not Lonewolf?? I'm confused.

Coincidently, i did do this with my Adventure with about 30-40L of water, and i got a slow drip from the front T Handle, and thats about it, wasn't going to wait for it all to come out, i would still be there.

Rivets dont convince me, some other brand Kayaks with rivets that friends of mine have also have water leaks, after a trip they are getting 5L+++ of water in the hull, where mine has less than half a cup.


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## koich (Jul 25, 2007)

If I was to do this to mine, all the water would come out of the holes that I have drilled intoit , and the lines for the rudder( Thsi is where all the water goes in). I dare say I'd have enough air in the bulkheads to keep my yak afloat with a lot more than 50L of water in it.

Some people are pickier than others with purchases. I'd be more upset about the 2 days of work and the inconvenience than the leakage.


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## L3GACY (Sep 2, 2007)

For sending a replacement yak out with a ding I've gotta say that's a poor effort on Bic's behalf. Though, I personally wouldn't complain about rod holders leaking when they've used crappy rivets. The sort of yak that uses rivets is the sort of yak I wouldn't have a whole lot of confidence in to begin with. I suspect the Hobie's with their hatches and rudder lines would take on more water in a session than a couple of rod holders but that's just my opinion. As Bazz said, our Quests would have been leaking a lot faster lol. Other than customer service I don't see an issue, just that some might want to steer clear of them if they prefer their rod holders moulded or screwed in with gaskets and or silicon.


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## RedPhoenix (Jun 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

----

QlpoOTFBWSZTWTYw828AACTfgAAQUOfYQijkFCo/5//gMACmsNTJMmiaekepiNNMmE002obUETUMg00AANAAAaDVPRNNJ6aGiGjABMAmDKzD2PvCrxMnMvehx0m9Tm46XarbuCjlEXEzOzL8oqinNjTPO22LI5McMFi64YubIpYeQg74tFZAWbUqJXUFA1AILoEwSbpeqEuEXgjJUGHBK5QAIi3Rxw6fJqNkSoU0MCwU8VJoSUNanURiVhtsQnxCZqNiChyNJJkIcF1HQIGKUxABAqAXmTiuQxyNK/F3JFOFCQNjDzbw


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## redman (Jun 5, 2008)

redphoenix said:


> L3GACY said:
> 
> 
> > I suspect the Hobie's with their .. rudder lines
> ...


They aren't underwater unless you put a rather large icebox in the back, fill it to the brim with water and add live bait - still didn't take on alot of water so I was impressed........however I did have to sit a little further forward than usual


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## Dodge (Oct 12, 2005)

L3GACY said:


> The sort of yak that uses rivets is the sort of yak I wouldn't have a whole lot of confidence in to begin with.


Jon if given the chance to drill off the head of a split tail rivet I would encourage you to so mate as they are brilliant, with the rivet spread below deck as wide as a washer and nut;-)

The side handles on my Swing are fixed using split tails, and the webbing would be the first thing to break on any lift using one handle only as the lift point


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## L3GACY (Sep 2, 2007)

Dodge said:


> L3GACY said:
> 
> 
> > The sort of yak that uses rivets is the sort of yak I wouldn't have a whole lot of confidence in to begin with.
> ...


Sory Dodge, while I trust your judgement i'll always be a supporter of nuts and bolts. ;-)


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## craig51063 (May 30, 2008)

spend $1000.oo on a yak that is not watertight because its using a infearior building system to me is wrong .and also to go through the dramas of loosing 2 days wages and a dud replacement ,im sorry i would not be happy ..........

i spent 2 days waiting for some flooring to arrive once lost 2 days wages so i symply deducted the wages out of the final payment ..........

surely its an very easy option to use some silicon when the yak is having its final assembly .if the silicon is only lasting a year or 2 then they are using the wrong silicon .
silicon is VERY STRONG and water tight . i use to make fish tanks and the only thing that held the glass together was silicon .

craig


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## azzaroo (Aug 17, 2007)

sounds like he's had a "bic" of a bad run ;-)as if you'd sit around for two days waiting for a kayak :shock: the fish arn't going anywhere......


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## zipper (Feb 27, 2008)

my kingy take on water into the hull.
but this is only because i have holes the size of pins surrounding one of my scupper holes, that said i dont think there has only been 1 other instance that i know of and wavedance kayaks have been very helpful. i gave them a call and they said i can either take it in, or they will come pick it up (factory is almost an hour away), and eiter fix it or give me a brand spanking new one (i think the decision is up to me) so i am taking it in tomorow.
aside from that i am extremely happy with my kingy and that is the only thing i can fault it on    8) .

cheers
<edit>: youngun has had his kingy for longer than me and has still not got a drop of water in his kingy. so this is definatley not a problem with kingys


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## ant (Aug 28, 2008)

It is good to have this type of feed back, make what you would like from it but I never thought to check a yak for leaks then again I am pretty green


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## L3GACY (Sep 2, 2007)

ant said:


> It is good to have this type of feed back, make what you would like from it but I never thought to check a yak for leaks then again I am pretty green


I don't think there's any need to test a yak for leaks unless you have a reason to suspect a major leak. It's something that frustrated the hell out of me with the Quest but I've personally found the reality to be that SOT's can take on A LOT of water before you need to be worried.

When I first got the BFS I was taking on water at a crazy rate. One trip I ended up paddling in to shore with the entire arse end submerged and waves lapping at my back.... she was still floating and she was still going forward.


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## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

yep I agree and I think that ANY kayak whch takes on water has either a design or quality control fault.

I cannot believe some guys who get back to shore and say 'I only got a few litres in the hull today'. I've had my Prowler Elite for 2 years (and Wilderness Syetems Tarpon before that) and neither boat has ever had a drop of water in the hull. This is despite me going out in some pretty rough conditions, towing the yak behind a boat, surfing, copping waves over the bow etc etc.

If your yak leaks, get it fixed. If not, then you're taking an unnecessary risk, especially if going offshore.


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## shark (Oct 29, 2008)

hi first thanks to lonewolf for putting this post on for me we are in the north wales in the uk and the post came off a forum that both steve an myself run

i was not a member on this site so steve put it on while i joined this post was wrote by me to show people who have bic kayaks the problems i was having i did this test due to the fact that when the first one came i could see that it had a problem so i put water in it so i could get some pictures to show bic as i had just spent £628.00 on it and did not want to fix it myself i was not going to have a rant but when they sent me a second duff yak which they said they had checked and was perfect aqnd i got it out of the wrapper and it had a gouge in it and you could see the bad fitting again i filled it with water to show how bad this one leaked


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## rawprawn (Aug 31, 2005)

Davey G said:


> yep I agree and I think that ANY kayak whch takes on water has either a design or quality control fault.
> 
> I cannot believe some guys who get back to shore and say 'I only got a few litres in the hull today'. I've had my Prowler Elite for 2 years (and Wilderness Syetems Tarpon before that) and neither boat has ever had a drop of water in the hull. This is despite me going out in some pretty rough conditions, towing the yak behind a boat, surfing, copping waves over the bow etc etc.
> 
> If your yak leaks, get it fixed. If not, then you're taking an unnecessary risk, especially if going offshore.


Yeh I agree my Prowler never gets water in the hull other than what drips through my leaky rod holder when it's been sitting out in the raid for a week (I'll fix it one day if I can be bothered). But..... If you put 50 litres of water in our Prowlers and turned them upside down I think it would come out in a rush at a minimum via the front hatch? Remember if you flip your yak upside down in the water it will not fill the hull unless you have somewhere for the air to get out.

I don't know if any manufacture which would guarantee there hulls are 100% watertight and I personally wouldn't expect them to be. I would expect them to be safe to use for there intended purpose nothing more.

I just know you want me to prove it don't you Dave :twisted: If I have nothing else to do this weekend I'll put it to the test.


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## andybear (Jan 15, 2006)

Hmmm,

Passing thought again. If the yak was watertight, perhaps it would be air tight as well, and all kinds of bad things could happen if you left it out in the sun, not to mention changes in atmospheric pressure.

I don't know the Bic, but if the yak seems to be strong, and you like the way it looks and paddles, and providing not much water can get in hull, it still may be a very capable vessel.

Cheers and good luck with it ....Andybear


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## shark (Oct 29, 2008)

yes it is easy to fix but why should i pay appox 1526.14 australian dollors to have to fix it myself you would not buy a new car and fix the sunroof because it leaks


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## Junglefisher (Jun 2, 2008)

Because it would have been cheaper for you than taking the day off work and saved the supplier several hundred euro and saved the retailer much hassle too.
I took my Revo out for the first time today, practising rolling / recovery it got about 20L of water in the hull, better send it back :shock:


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## zipper (Feb 27, 2008)

yeah when i tipped my kingy over in the pool to practice it all and see how muc it took to tip it over my hull got a fair bit of water in it
another contributing fact was that i had holes in the bottom of it :shock: but its all fixed now so everythings all sweet  
i recon what Kraley said about the silicon is spot on aswell, would have saved you alot of trouble.

cheers


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## nemollie (Sep 3, 2008)

Shhhh ! SSSSHHHH! ah at last, silence,out on the big blue , all Ican hear is the sound of water...... gently trickling into the hull. OH SH#T.If only I had bought some silicon....


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## lonewolf (Aug 14, 2007)

im glad shark has joined and can answer some questions for you all,i copied this original post off my own forum here in the uk i have put it on many as i think it is an issue that needed to be shared with all ;-) i fully agree with shark why pay for a "NEW"yak to have to go and seal it yourself :shock: 
there have been many replies on all forums to this topic and i thank you all for your input and understanding as why i put this post up!


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## craig51063 (May 30, 2008)

If you just bought a shimano fishing rod for say $500 ,got it home and then noticed that 1 of the runners was lose .what would you do, fix it easerly yourself with araldite or take it back .i know what i would do .......

just bought a brand new zodiak . its a beutiful craft but its got a slow leak in it .But one side goes sogy after about 36hrs after inflation . should i accept this as well or should i find the leak and put a patch on it or take it back and swap it for a product that does what i paid for ????

if you buy a product thats faulty and you dont complain the standard of that product remains infearior. it dosnt matter how much it cost ! 
with any luck bic wil now start finishing there products PROPERLY . maybee they do already and this was just bad luck ??? how would you know .

occy you are right i agree 100% .

cheers 
craig


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## wobbly (Jun 13, 2007)

Guys,

Forums are invitations to discuss issues! This thread is specific to a defective product, those who think that a leaking yak is o.k. then dont winge about less minor issues in the future.

A yak should be fully functional and built for purpose, and with all respects water tight (not air tight) and that is what we would expect to pay for and receive, anything less than that is selling short and for a mega corporation like BIC to sell rubbish and support it with rubbish management support equates to the company treating the buyers with utter contempt.

Get over it and support safe quality products.

My pennies worth

Regards

Brian


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## craig51063 (May 30, 2008)

Just one more thought.....

if the person that bought this yak did the fixup himself wouldnt that then void the hull warentie ...................


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## blaggon (Jan 14, 2008)

[quote="occy" Think about it for a minute will you. You spend a large wad of your hard earned on a bright new shiny yak. The first thing you have to do when you get it home is to rip the bloody rod holders out (drill all the rivets, seal under holder, replace rivets, re-seal them, and clean everything up). Bloody hell no one should have to put up with that sort of crap product and lousy service.

agreed occy..
and could you just imagine the manufacturer/dealer giving you any support if you managed to stuff up the home repair job and then asked them for help :shock:
it would be an easy fix to diy for the majority of people . but not everyone is capable with a powertool either


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