# NSW northside sorting through the rats



## Wrassemagnet (Oct 17, 2007)

Paulb and I hit up Longy yesterday and this was the first mission worthy of posting about here for me for a while. It's worth posting about as I mainly want to share what I've learned works for me when tackling kings from a paddle kayak and add it to the great knowledge bank here.

As everyone knows Kings love to hand out punishment and techniques have had to be developed to try and mitigate the embarrassment and frustration of hooking up and then getting pantsed. The hobie has the advantage of pedal power and a lot of great kings have been landed by hooking them up and then pedalling away from the structure. When I fished from the Revolution that's what I did and it worked. When I went to paddle power though the game changed for me and I was unable to land a decent fish although hooking up was not a problem. The tactics that needed to be applied by a paddler as opposed to a pedaller were obviously different so I looked to the original dawn patrol stealth boys for help and they were champions and very free with their advice (thanks Mark and Paul!). After all they regularly bring in meter plus kings from their stealths but they are exceptional paddlers and I found I was unable to handle the heaviness of their choice of gear on account of my lack of balance. Don't get me wrong, the 575 is an exceptionally stable craft but I am so unco compared to the stealth boys who have even fought and won against these fish using regular surf ski's.

I tried using jigging outfits rated for 50lb gear and just felt that I would tip whenever I did the drag up enough to make a difference. The problem I thought was that the fish could exert too much leverage on me through a fast or even medium action rod. There has been an interesting journey (for me anyway) towards solving this problem and to explain it I need to start with the terminal tackle.

When I started trying out higher drag pressures I started to experience more gear failure. On my heavy plastics outfit (which is a samurai reaction 25lb rod which seems to bend right down to the handle and a stella sw 4000 capable of 11kg drag) I found that the jigheads I used which were deadly for snapper straightened and I lost good fish so I changed from the TT to the berkely nitro equivalent which seem a bit thicker gauge. My beloved Norman speed clips would also fail at high drag pressures so I went back to the eye crosser knot. But I digress... for the baiting outfit it occurred to me that the 4Oz Berkely elevator jigheads would be an elegant way to replace the usual break away sinker set up if the kings would go for a squid strip attached to them. And they wouldn't! This frustrated me until I woke up one morning thinking the problem might be too much hook showing so I fiddled with them, replacing the split ring with my own (edit) 70lb owner ring and the hook with a 6/0 mustad hoodlum live bait hook as it was shorter and wider gape with a bit of a circle shape to it. Well I was stoked that the rats loved the new configuration using short strips, long strips and even rings of squid. Always hooked in the jaw hinge which was a bonus. However I was still getting pantsed using my regular medium to fast action overhead jigging outfit as I just couldn't cope with the drag needed to stop the hoodies.

Therefore the rod needed to change but was the answer to get a longer rod? A shorter rod? The longer rod increased the leverage and the shorter rod couldn't absorb anything. It wasn't until I went to Brisbane late last year and Trev (K1) got me thinking when he told me about landing massive GT's from his kayak using Alveys without rods attached to the hull minimising the leverage factor. It wasn't a big intuitive leap to the thought therefore that a very slow action rod would also produce a similar effect as the bend would come right down to the handle and as close as possible to my centre of gravity. So I found a really soft action 30lb rod, one of the new slow jigging rods, with a star drag overhead setup and man, it worked a treat with the snapper and rats but wasn't able to handle the drag pressure to stop the hoodies. I then went looking for a 50lb overhead outfit with similar properties and found it in the form of a Trigya rod from Megabass. It's rated to PE3 with max 7kg drag but yesterday it handled much more drag than that  Unfortunately the Trigya's guides are really small and the largest diameter FC leader that would fit through using an FG knot was the 50lb FC rock brand. Anyway why an overhead rather than spinning outfit? I'd learned the hard way that you need a light drag on the strike if the rod is in the holder not just so it doesn't tip you when the hoodie hits but also so you can get the rod out of the holder. You then need to very quickly dial up the drag to get into the fight and stop the bastards before they reef you. Hence the lever drag makes sense. For that reason I chose to pair up the Trinya with my jewie slayer big accurate boss magnum twin drag loaded with 50lb braid and voila!

My first paddle yak legal king (ahem after more than a year of trying about once a week)


The gear






This fish was caught while I was fast trolling a squid ring 5m behind me in 8m of reefy water. As soon as the drag started screaming I was able to snatch the rod out of the holder without balance problems as the strike didn't rock the boat much. I stuck the Trigya under my arm and immediately slammed the boss up to mid drag which is around 6kg. The King started pulling the yak backwards as line kept peeling off so I knew this was no rat and I pushed the lever up a bit more until it stopped giving line and the yak started to turn to face the king. There was a lot of pulling and aborted runs with tiny squeaks of drag as the King strained to reach the reef, it felt like he was bungy jumping on the end of my rod but with the butt under my arm all the leverage was to the midline and at around belly button level so with both feet over the sides I never felt in danger of going over. I just kept thinking "F this, I'm not giving you an inch". And that was about it really, I started the pump and wind when he stopped trying to reef me, held on to the bungy jumping when he had his second and third runs but I knew at that stage if the knots and rings held (no way that hoodlum hook would straighten) he would soon start to circle and he did. I didn't gaff him as he looked close to legal and then of course nearly pissed myself when I saw he was over 65 and close to 70. Of course I'd left my bragmat at home so I couldn't photograph until he'd shrunk a bit but man we are having kingfish for dinner tonight and it's going to be especially sweet, not just tasty 

However this yellow fever/addiction means I want to test this gear on some bigger models too. Will it be up to the challenge of a metery? I dunno but it sure is going to be fun trying to find out!


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## shiznic (May 14, 2008)

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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## yakattack (Jan 12, 2008)

Hi jim,
Good work I think the glass yak is a great fishing vessel.
If you can put it all together you will land that hoodlum 
It's been a bit slow this season but there are some crackers lurking around.
Best of luck 
Regards Micka


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## DennisT (Jan 2, 2012)

Nice work Jim,

Well Deserved Kingie mate.

Now all you have to do is Come join us at Adder Rock for some Spanish Action mate ;-)


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## Dixie (Nov 9, 2013)

Now that is what I call persistence - well done


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## avayak (May 23, 2007)

I find soaking the squid in Rohypnol first works a treat.


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## jbonez (Jul 9, 2013)

Great read.. looks like you have the gear to get into some mechanical jigging now really test the balance


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## Wrassemagnet (Oct 17, 2007)

When we talk about real fish vs kings one should take note of the absence of pink skirts and lattes in reports dealing with kings. Similarly there is a lack of men crying like girls after being repeatedly pantsed on heavy gear in QLD reports. On the other hand us Mexicans don't have to spend 2 hours trying to get past the surf before starting to fish and we don't need wire rigs to manage the toothiness of our critters so I guess there might be a fair amount of interesting challenge involved in fishing like a Queenslander...hmmm.

The other things that are essential in the quest for kingies are good advice from generous and knowledgable fisho's (thanks Micka!) as well as nutso fishing buddies who don't care that it's dark and winter as you get pantsed. Now I know your trick Gary the respect level has gone up 10 notches! Genius dude!


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## paulo (Nov 1, 2007)

Love it! Thanks for such a technical look at what is obviously a very challenging pastime. I can appreciate the level of skill required to land a fish that reefs you in such shallow water. We rarely have such challenge up this way. My few encounters with them have mostly ended in tears.

Its comforting to know Im not the only one that lies awake at night thinking about how better to beat the beasts.


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## leapyear (Jan 29, 2014)

Great post. As a fellow paddle yakker who devotes a lot of time to chasing kings, I'm definitely taking a lot of this info on board. Thanks.


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

Jim if you had never peddled in the first place there wouldn't be a problem, they would just be kingfish 
Other tricks to try: go very gently with them, some of my better kings have been on my lighter gear and I was too scared to do up the drag. They will see the yak and run, see the yak and run, see the yak and run, but they do get tied.
The other thing is if you think they are about to hit the reef, flick the bail arm over and let them think they are fee for a minute.
The general thing with them seems to be that harder you pull, the harder they pull. 
If you whack a hook into the roof of their mouth with great force (ie: jigging), they will bend you over and rip your guts out through your arse, so all other techniques except lock the drag and hold on are off the table.


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## yakattack (Jan 12, 2008)

I love the mighty kingfish and spend two days a week catching them and 20 hours thinking about them lol
They are by far the best inshore species to target in sydney with even the smaller juvenile fish giving you enjoyment on the right gear.
When I am out and see the yak fraternity getting stuck into them it takes me back to a happy place.
Even though stopping the hoodlums in a boat is far easier hooking up to a good one in the yak is a far superior experience.
My opinion is a 10 kg model is a real chance for you guys in reefy terrain playing it hard or soft are both good options each fish is also different and respond differently.
I wish everyone gets to see a whopper come up besides the yak that's a memory I will never forget.
Tights lines


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## anselmo (Aug 26, 2008)

Great info and insight Jim


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

Great stuff Jim. I can still hear your well-oiled brain gears clicking over....



paulo said:


> Love it! Thanks for such a technical look at what is obviously a very challenging pastime. I can appreciate the level of skill required to land a fish that reefs you in such shallow water. We rarely have such challenge up this way. My few encounters with them have mostly ended in tears.
> 
> Its comforting to know I'm not the only one that lies awake at night thinking about how better to beat the beasts.


I know nothing about them except what I read from the Sydney lads, and the frustration of being pantsed is frequently obvious. (I have caught a few small ones around Broom's Head over many years.)

Jim
After all your careful machinations, I have _the_ answer:

Buy an AI, and build a bigger garage! :lol:


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## badmotorfinger (Mar 15, 2010)

Good read WM. Thanks for taking the time to write it up.


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

I don't think that spoon has been to successful unless they are in a feeding frenzy.
I use a small weighted version call an eel head in the US and it is very effective with a 7" squid strip. I haven't needed a stinger hook as the big ones seem to hit the head.


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## avayak (May 23, 2007)

You picked an apt title Jim, sorting it surely is. How many rats to a keeper do you think you have sorted through?
I enjoyed reading about the journey although I felt the pain all the way in those lessons. Keep wearing your good undies out there though, plenty of pantsings still to be had.


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## avayak (May 23, 2007)

keza said:


> I don't think that spoon has been to successful unless they are in a feeding frenzy.
> I use a small weighted version call an eel head in the US and it is very effective with a 7" squid strip. I haven't needed a stinger hook as the big ones seem to hit the head.


Stinger hooks, yaks and fiesty rats , body piercings!


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## avayak (May 23, 2007)

keza said:


> I don't think that spoon has been to successful unless they are in a feeding frenzy.
> I use a small weighted version call an eel head in the US and it is very effective with a 7" squid strip. I haven't needed a stinger hook as the big ones seem to hit the head.


Stinger hooks, yaks and fiesty rats , body piercings!


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## Zed (Sep 18, 2006)

IMO fishing kings doesn't need a stinger on fin bait or squish bait. 
Yellowtail don't nip tails, they inhale the whole thing.

But who am I to mess w/ success?

Good report. That will keep your mind occupied until next time out.


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## Wrassemagnet (Oct 17, 2007)

I think the depth the rig was moving along while I was trolling at 4 knots was probably around 1 to 2m. I gave up twin hook rigs and stingers on the kayak after a couple of hairy moments with powerful fish on my lap that I needed to unhook - I use a wet towel over the eyes to calm them but there were still moments of panic with headshakes and moments of frustration with hooks tangling in the towel. You can't waste time faffing around with the rats as you need to maximise the amount of time with a bait in the water for the keepers. So most guys skull drag the rats in and get on with looking for the elusive keeper. I do get a few hits that don't hook up, probably 20% are missed strikes but I prefer to think they were big bakers or rock cod that got away  My gut feeling is that the ratio of rats to keepers is probably 5 or 6 to 1 on a good day this time of the year and live baits shift the odds towards keepers and real big hoodies a bit. However for example Paulb has perfected metery slaying using sluggos so it's to each his own. In winter the kings are harder to find but there are fewer rats to keepers. Sometimes there are insane days when a school of bigger kings come through for a few days and there are people taking home multiple keepers and other days (the majority) when you just catch exercise - especially when the bastard dolphins are around.


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## Beekeeper (Aug 20, 2011)

Great report, Jim P... really good to see all the thinking, scheming, planning and patience come to fruition.

Hope to see you again some time.

Jim R


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## Wrassemagnet (Oct 17, 2007)

Thanks Jim R., But I'm just an apprentice schemer compared to you...

By the way that leader knot you showed me in the apartment has become the only knot I tie for my 30lb and lighter gear, it's a cracker! The no-name knot eh? Hope to see you again too mate cheers.

Jim P.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

Exceptional work Jim! And congrats on your legal, big moment.

I'll have to test you on your rig theories. Beer sometime?


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## wopfish (Dec 4, 2006)

Nice methodical approach Jim - glad to see the dividends hope the fam enjoy the feast. See you at the ramp soon when I get back.


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## Darwin (Jul 25, 2008)

Hi Jim

I am using same jig head now. Instead of attaching the hook directly to jig, I extending it with 80cm long 20lb fluorocarbon plus 2 circle hooks. I wish it can absorb some force & the fish can swallow the whole bait. I do have a problem that it has 4 knots along the line. Therefore it may have more breaking points. The biggest trouble is I never find a king recently! The only hook up I had last time was on jig head directly on my Moment of Lost video report. My last taste on king was 2 years ago. All of 9 of them were rats between 60 to 63cm at Kurnell. I was using 2 - 5kg rod, 25lb braid, 20lb fluoro, jig head, size 4000 reel & frozen squid hook directly on jig head. This is all experience that I can share.

Regards


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## Wrassemagnet (Oct 17, 2007)

Dru and woppie let's get busy at Longy soon eh? Rod if it's given you of all anglers food for thought I'm chuffed thanks mate. Darwin I tried using 60lb fluorocarbon trace 30cm to hook from the jigheads but the bastards got me to the reef and snagged up the jighead itself so I was anchored to australia by the sinker. This was trouble breaking off I tell you but when I got it back I saw it had broken at the knot to the jighead as it had a curl in the break. I have been snagged by the sinker before a few times whenever there is a gap between the bait and the sinker. I think the kings zoom along just above the structure and if there is a weight hanging down below their bodies it snags up. Hence I went to the single split ring idea so the weight is right next to their mouth and the rest of the line angled above them. I wasn't sure if such a rig would even hook up but I'm glad it seems to work nicely and catch them in the jaw hinge. Maybe that's part of why they seemed easier to turn the other day? I dunno, I'm sure I'm going to get done on this rig by something real big and the process of reassessment and refinement will continue


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## Dave73 (Dec 3, 2006)

Hi Jim,

Great fish to come onboard, sorting through the rats alright!

Top intel there on the gear option. I'm interested in similar combo for my kayak, which is certainly tippy. 
Good to see you've found the right setup the Accurates are sweet & slow jigging parabolic makes perfect sense. Choosing lever drag is a lightbulb moment, I used to have a baitrunner that worked ok, why did I sell that??

Will go for a Maxel 05 overhead reel & rod TBC. Maybe the JM Saber Game 100 though something spiral wrapped and Vanuatu capable would be nice also. 
Rod quiver is looking nice, how is the Versa Pitch?

Cheers Dave


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## Wrassemagnet (Oct 17, 2007)

You certainly know you're gear Dave. I think you need a spiral wrapped one so you can keep the handle in the midline of the yak and basically high stick almost to keep balanced. I've seen videos of huge fish being caught on slow jiggers but the fisherman basically leans over the side and points the rod tip towards the beast over the side of the boat after hooking up and winches them in using the reel without putting a bend in the rod. I worry that would tip a yak so I'm betting on the trinya not snapping as it is wrapped.

I'm waiting for snapper season to use the versa pitch, no reason it won't shine!


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## Dave73 (Dec 3, 2006)

Which accurate is that, the BX 400?


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## Wrassemagnet (Oct 17, 2007)

It's an older and bigger one, the bx870n. I'm taking this one to Adder rock as it has a high capacity. I have a bx400xn 6:1 retrieve loaded with 50lb braid and 50lb FC leader as well on the other trigya. Gary and I have used these with conventional style overhead jig sticks and they feel really good in the hand as they're a nice size. I haven't caught anything with it yet though but Gary has I think. I'll let you know if I catch anything decent on it.


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