# AIR KNOTS IN BRAID



## deadlydave (Nov 20, 2007)

Hi Everyone
I generally use hard and soft bodied lures when fishing but my friends have always been urging me to get into using soft plastics.After reading the post about the new Atomic Guzzlerz,i went to the BCF at the Hyperdomeand got myself 3 packets with some Gamakatsu 25 11/8oz jigheads and on the way to visit my parents stopped and had a fish under the railway bridge at Nerang.have seen heaps of flathead lies there at low tide before ,so thought it would be a good place to start
Had about 4 casts and got my first air knot ,luckily it was only small and was able to get it out.Have watched IFISH where they say that every 5 or 6 casts you have to cast long to retighten the braid on your spool ,so after fixing knot cast long and everything seemed to be working alright.Before i cast long again i got another air knot this time after 15 minutes of trying to untangle i eventually cut the braid and retied sp on,lost about 5m of braid
Tried again and got a nice 40cm flathead,but 3 casts after that i got a huge air knot that i spent probably 20 minutes trying to untangle to no avail ,so packed up my stuff went to visit my mum and dads and spent another 30minutes trying to untangle with my dads help before giving up and this time losing about 7m of braid
How do you prevent air knots from happening and could it be that the braid was not put onto the reel tight enough in the beginning .Am keen to use sp's but if i am going to lose braid every time i use them then i'll give them the flick
Hoping for answers 
Dave


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## Rstanek (Nov 5, 2007)

The only advice I can give is to keep a bit of tension on the line as you reel in, as this keeps the line fairly tight on the spool, which in turn should combat the knots.


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## Junglefisher (Jun 2, 2008)

A fully spooled reel is more susceptible to them than one with the braid 5mm from the rim.
A large leader knot or long tags will catch on the guides as you cast creating knots.
Trying to cast too far will cause knots.
Super light braid (6lb and under) gets more knots.


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## GoneFishn (May 17, 2007)

Junglefisher said:


> A fully spooled reel is more susceptible to them than one with the braid 5mm from the rim.


Spot on with not spooling right up. When I first started with braid I had few air knots, since leaving about 5mm from the rim I only get the odd one when trying to cast long with a light SP or HB.


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## Joffa (Nov 8, 2007)

Depends on the braid you are using....Light as in 6lb or less...You need a reasonable amount of tension when you first spoooled it and when you retrieve.....I find the 'hard' braids such as fireline etc less susceptible to this, but have recently starting using 'Bass Hard' in light line weights with no issues. Personally, Ive found standard Finns and the like in the 6lbs and less likely to tangle....might just be me and the way I fish!(but love it in the 20lb plus!)


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## deadlydave (Nov 20, 2007)

Thanks for the replies
I'll keep tension on the line in future, but i think it may have been trying to cast too far to reach the drop off so i'll also keep that in mind 
Thanks 
Dave


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## Deepsouth (Feb 17, 2008)

I use 6lb fireline and find when I drop down to 1/8th or 1/16th jig head sizes i get ALOT of wind knots. When I'm using heavier jig heads i dont get any, but casting a long way does not help the situation.
Good to hear the atomics worked for you, it might be time for a try :shock:


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## deadlydave (Nov 20, 2007)

Thanks again for the info and yes those atomic guzzlerz really do work,well i think so anyway seeing as there the only sp's iv'e used
My spool has probably about 2-3mm before the rim ,should i take a bit more of the nylon backing off or just leave it and be a bit more careful 
Thanks 
Dave


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## L3GACY (Sep 2, 2007)

deadlydave said:


> My spool has probably about 2-3mm before the rim ,should i take a bit more of the nylon backing off or just leave it and be a bit more careful
> Thanks
> Dave


I would say try laying the line on tighter first and try to cast "softer". I keep my braid reels a little underspooled like the others and never get wind knots so you may still need to take some off. Good luck.


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## fishydude (Dec 30, 2007)

Here they come the famous last words :? , I haven't had a braid wind knot yet :shock: .....I get the impression they're not worth trying to sort. Would this be correct?
Cheers
Mike


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## mcbigg (Jul 14, 2007)

fishydude said:


> Here they come the famous last words :? , I haven't had a braid wind knot yet :shock: .....I get the impression they're not worth trying to sort. Would this be correct?
> Cheers
> Mike


Depends where they are on your line (ie do you really want to cut off all the line thats out?) and how tight the know has pulled.

I found the best way to undo them is to kind of tease them out a bit at a time. Pulling on different loops lightly to see which ones will give and which ones will pull the knot tighter. Once the knot is tight, then yeah, it's pretty much all over.


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

I used to get them all the time....bloody frustrating.

Since I've up graded my reels to newer better quality ones, I very rarely get them and when I do its usually only a very small knot and is caused by not cleaning the spool lip.

I have a Stradic 1000 with 3lb fireline and I can cast small poppers for a mile all day and never had a wind knot, only just had a couple on the Certate 2000, but thats was caused by a bit of dried salt on the spool lip.

As said before, keep line tight, keep your leader knots smooth, make sure your runners on the rod are all good, dont spool right to the lip (I leave about 2mm), clean your spool lip.......and if all else fails, get a better quality reel.


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## JT (May 25, 2006)

One piece of advice I can give you is to not let a 6 year old use a rod and reel with any sort of braid on it :twisted: 

JT


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## ohagas (Dec 4, 2006)

Surprised no-one hasn't mentioned this already, but it could also be badly spooled line. This happened to me once. Bought a new reel and the bloke in the shop spooled it up with 6lb braid, using the machine. First outing and every single cast ended up in a mess. I de-spooled and re-spooled myself and haven't had a knot since. I would suggest stripping all the line off and re-spool.


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## Ozzybass (Jun 29, 2007)

kraley said:


> Secondly - the lighter the jig you throw, the more you have to be aware of creating loops as you do your first couple of turns of the retrieve - this is where most of them start. Make sure that there is some tension on the line when starting your retrieve. I accomplish this by pullin backward on the rod as I start my retrieve.
> 
> Third - if you notice ANY loops or slack in your spool, take the time to deal withit early - it is unlikely to get resolved on a subsequent cast - in fact, this is where you will get the big knot.
> 
> ...


Yep - this pretty much addresses everything. One of the unmentioned things so far is how Kraley's 2nd point above is influenced very much by the luring technique being used at any time. If you just cast out & start cranking, like with crankbaits or heavy metal, this is usually not a problem. However, if you're using a technique which results in slack line, like retrieving lightly-weighted or unweighted plastix in current (eg. river fishing on moving water), or "pop & pause" jigging; this is when you have to be extra vigilant about laying the line on the spool.

The title of this thread intrigues me - "air knots". Is it the same definition as the one I use - ie. its loose line wrapping around itself? I've certainly experienced them, but must say that it happens much less with braid on spinning reels as line twist is pretty much a non-issue with braid. Much worse is the problem of loose loops of line on the spool which comes out during a cast and this is rectified by Kraley's point 2, 3 & last. I use nothing but braid on my spin reels now & would not go back to mono!


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## deadlydave (Nov 20, 2007)

Thanks very much for all of your replies and i'll try to remember everything i have been told .As i have only used sp's twice now i think there will probably be a few more errors before i get things right ,but after catching the flathead on Saturday and a couple more hits, but no hook ups on Sunday ,i think i have become hooked shall we say
Thanks again
Dave


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## L3GACY (Sep 2, 2007)

deadlydave said:


> i think i have become hooked shall we say


Oh shi7... I did that at Pt Augusta with a treble and just ripped it clean out. Too painful. My advice leave it in and enjoy it :lol:


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## GregL (Jul 27, 2008)

mcbigg said:


> fishydude said:
> 
> 
> > I found the best way to undo them is to kind of tease them out a bit at a time. Pulling on different loops lightly to see which ones will give and which ones will pull the knot tighter. Once the knot is tight, then yeah, it's pretty much all over.


Don't get the scissors out just yet though. If its not a monster mess, but a relatively small and very tight knot, (say with only a couple of loose loops hanging off a tight knot), I have found that if I press the line with my thumbnail tightly against my forefinger with the knot facing away from me, and then firmly 'strip' my nail along the line (being held taught) and over the knot, the knots 'magically' disappear probably 6 or 7 times out of 10.
I've saved hours of fishing time doing it. Dunno why it works - it just does.
Trust me its worth giving it a go. If they don't come out the line will often break anyway at the knot, which is probabaly where your going to to tie your leader anyway.

(BTW I'm talking about 6lb fireline. When I use 4lb, its usually too weak and snaps at the knot straight away. Haven't the technique with heavy braid)

cheers
Greg


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## jaffa (Aug 16, 2008)

hi,

Had a baitrunner 3500 with 20lb on with the same prob as above, when spooled, line was not put on tight enough (lasted about 4 casts then ended up cutting off the knot several times). I actually wound all the braid off onto on of my alvey reels, did the drag up on the alvey and wound it back onto the baitrunner... damned tight...Worked a treat, no more air knots.


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## locky24 (May 24, 2008)

I too have had the odd wind knot like most & have also found like most that the lighter line you use the more knots you get, I try to make a habit of checking my spool every 2 nd or 3 rd cast. If it looks loose throw out a dummy cast & retrieve it quickly to re- tighten the line on the spool.
Locky. 8)


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## sbd (Aug 18, 2006)

Nitlon braid. I haven't had a wind knot yet (I use down to 6lb). Don't know if it's the weave, but it feels slippery & appears to be pretty much immune to random knotting.


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## JakeJ (Aug 31, 2008)

Hello, i'm new here but I do have some experience with braids. First some reels hate them just won't work with braid. They twist it all up and make it useless. These spinning reels should only be loadd with mono. All spinners will get air/wind knots. You need to be vigiliant. Look down occasionally and see how you're doing. After casting give the line a little tug before winding. A trick that I use that helps immensely is spray your braid on the spool with silicone until it drips out the other side. Your knots will be less common and easier to remove. Your casting distance will improve as well.


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## jedandmike (Sep 18, 2007)

yeah, i used to get that same problem with fireline, so i switched to this japanese stuff which has something like 12 strands instead of 3, haven't had the problem since.


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## oldmanandthesea (Mar 26, 2007)

Thanks to all of you for the tips,I will try them out. Also I find it helpful to not open the bail arm to untangle any loose line on the spool but to pull the line off against the drag.This avoids a lot of the messes I used to get into.


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