# Paddle Vs Pedal



## Artie (Dec 19, 2011)

yep, another one of these.... but a little different this time. Id like to share my experiences and thoughts and throw it out there for discussion.

Firstly I bought a Quest 11 a while ago and really really enjoyed the experience, Ive taken the little boat quite a ways offshore and felt quite safe at all times. This is partly due to the attributes of the boat but also from my respect for the ocean and the weather. And Ive also taken it into the snaggiest of rivers where it also excelled, truly versatile little boat.

So happy have I been that I had no thought to own anything BUT a paddle yak. So when my better half tried mine and loved it we decided to buy her a paddle yak as well, welcome to the family, Moken.

Which brings us to a few of months ago, I dropped into our local Hobbie shop and got to talking to the owner. I was looking at the offerings, and like all good sales people he got me talking (step no1, engage the client). But here's where he lost control, we got on really well and after 20 mins I sensed he had stopped seeing me as a potential sale and started talking about his need to get into the new PA12 which was on its way and how he really had to get rid of some of his personal fleet to make way for it...

Now remember, Im not looking for a yak at this point and he now knows this.... so when he showed me his own 2011 Revo 13 and all the stuff that came with it, why did I reach for my wallet????? (price mainly)

So I buy a pedal yak and Ive really enjoyed the benefits fishing the wide blue... but is one boat better than the other? Remember that these are very similar hull designs.

So Ill offer my opinion.... for what its worth.... which is about as much as you actually paid for it..... :shock:

For the wide blue... the pedal is without comparison, in my opinion, with the ability to do a couple of things at the same time because your hands are free, I feel it is a level safer than the paddle hull when things are busy... Its easy to cover longer distances and the inabilty to reverse up without using the paddle isnt an issue.

So last weekend I throw the Revo into our lake and then the river... and suddenly, its not so much fun.

Here the Quest is a far far more useable boat, submerged trees and logs hitting the fins threatened to damage the drive and also tip the boat if you werent aware... Im of the opinion that the Mirage drive is actually a liability when there are submerged objects about, also needing to move forward to turn when in close confines was restrictive, as well as not being able to back out of snags (where the fish are) without breaking out the paddle was a pain.... now move to the river and throw in a fairly decent current and it multiplies the issue many fold.

So where does all this take us?

Broadly speaking, a paddle boat can do what a pedal boat can, but a pedal boat cant always do what a paddle boat can. This just highlights to me how 'smart' I was in investing in one of each..... 

No, one isnt better than the other, they just do different things in different ways. So when those threads pop up asking should the buyer get a paddle or pedal boat, look closely at where you will use the boat... that will determine a/ what type of boat you buy and b/ how many you actually do buy..... I cant imagine being without 2 boats now...and the poor ole Moken is gone to a more appreciative owner


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## Squidley (May 8, 2010)

*padel


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## Artie (Dec 19, 2011)

Gday Mingle, does your Revo paddle ok? Mines nowhere near as good as the Quest, likes to turn slowly all by itself, either direction... even when drifting after getting to speed by paddling.. I wonder if i need to put the blanking cassette in the mirage hole?


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## Rick (Dec 19, 2006)

Peddle v Paddle I am a one eyed hobie convert. My two cents worth would be to suggest you slightly modify your peddling technique I take my revo onto sandbars where the water is 15cm you can still get along peddling with the fins close to the hull. Also when drifting over oyster covered rocks I keep the fins close to hull!


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## imnotoriginal (Jan 13, 2008)

If you need to reverse while in a Hobie, meet your new best friend...










I have one of these with me when I'm in the river, if I need to reverse, I break out the ping pong paddle, give a few quick paddles and I'm on my way again.

Beats paying exorbidant amounts for one of the fancy paddles they sell too.

Joel


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## Artie (Dec 19, 2011)

Rick said:


> Peddle v Paddle I am a one eyed hobie convert. My two cents worth would be to suggest you slightly modify your peddling technique I take my revo onto sandbars where the water is 15cm you can still get along peddling with the fins close to the hull. Also when drifting over oyster covered rocks I keep the fins close to hull!


I think we are talking about 2 different scenarios, we can all pedal in shallow water, Im talking about snaggy water and river currents...


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## Artie (Dec 19, 2011)

imnotoriginal said:


> If you need to reverse while in a Hobie, meet your new best friend...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Gday Joel, yep, been thinkng about this very thing that would make the most sense when you have your nose buried in a heap of snags searching for that big Yella..... although Ill always carry the paddle just in case the Mirage drive stops miraging

Heres an example...


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## Rick (Dec 19, 2006)

Hey Artie I guess it's horses for courses mate. What one thinks is mongrel condition to another could be the norm.
My first Revo I regularly parked on the oysterbeds. I reasoned the fins were slightly protecting the hull. From fishing the Minimurra I have more than once hit the odd mangrove at speed. I guess I have been lucky as I never felt like It would tip. 
...they are always in the main channel!
For me I still carry the paddle on the Revo as in the river I find it useful to push off and out of the mangroves when the tide does what it does.


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## doddsj (May 24, 2010)

G'day,

I fish extremely snaggy lakes like in your picture and also the same in rivers with plenty of current. You have to fish these areas if looking for the Natives Fish.I own an Outback and have no issues when in these environments. It's getting used to the fact that you have the fins below the hull, After a while it becomes second nature to either flutter the fins or fold them against the hull and use the paddle.

Cheers,
Steve.


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## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

I live in the snags mate and oyster leases its my domain and the fins are awesome particularly if theres current involved and you want to hold position while you cast at it.
Yes I have demolished many a fin in the racks in particular, but you will get used to when to pedal shallow or slow and when you dont need to. The fins I have done in have been my fault hitting racks (can only remember bending a mast once on a snag at deadwoods but was fixed on the water) etc at speed. One lot was the rivercats fault when the back swell from the thing dumped me on rocks up the parra river :lol: Worth noteing I have also broken paddles in the same situations.

Turning circle while you paddle - get the sailing rudder its much bigger and did wonders for my outback. Even when peddling

cheers Hedgy


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## Bretto (May 23, 2010)

Horses for courses. Skinny water bass country is no place for a PA. Its not the frequent shallow water which is the problem IMO. Its the getting out, picking up your yak and carrying it over fallen over trees where the bigger kayaks struggle. Picking up 20kgs of Quest and fishing tackle is a lot easier than picking up 50kg of PA and fishing tackle.


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## Junglefisher (Jun 2, 2008)

I own a fair stable of yaks and tend to agree with Artie.
I can paddle my Revo, but leave the rudder down 'cause otherwise as soon as you stop paddling it does a doughnut.
I've bent my masts on my Revo over and over. I don't even bother to fix them now. They are both bent the same amount so it still works.
I've also had that tippy moment a few times on dams when I've hit stuff out of the blue. I think it's when the fins actually push down on the snag rather than hitting from the front.
To be able to pedal in 15cm of water in a Revo, you must be pretty light. At 85kg with virtually no fishing gear on board, my rudder drags in more water than that. Once the rudder drags, you lose steering and therefore need to break out the paddle.
There's no way a ping pong bat would work for me. I'm regularly fishing in a current of around 2-5knots.
On a dam or open ocean though, I just love the mirage drive.
It still works fine on the creeks and rivers, but a paddle yak makes the day just so much nicer.
I also find it easier to paddle against a strong current then pedal. Wind is the opposite though.


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## Artie (Dec 19, 2011)

mingle said:


> Artie said:
> 
> 
> > Gday Mingle, does your Revo paddle ok? Mines nowhere near as good as the Quest, likes to turn slowly all by itself, either direction... even when drifting after getting to speed by paddling.. I wonder if i need to put the blanking cassette in the mirage hole?
> ...


Thanks Mike, I have to have the rudder down...it'll track ok for a while and then it'll slowy start to veer off to one side or the other and you have to stroke like a madman to get it straight again. Im going to take some weight out this weekend and see if its load distribution related. (edit, Im 100kg so other Revo's tracking OK could mean your a skinny wimp!)

When pedalling, the drive forward from the fins is located near the feet line, when paddeling its back near the shoulder line, which leads me to ask the question about load distribution. Ive heard the same thing from other Revo owners so I know its a design issue and Ive only owned her for a few months so we are still getting to know each other.... but... that few months has been intensive...Ill say that Ive covered more k's in that time than ANY of you lot... in fact Ive tracked about 4500k's.....(on the trailer ;-) )


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## Artie (Dec 19, 2011)

and to highlight my point...... just serviced the Mirage drive...... a bent mast, damn those things are tough.... all fixed..... the logs I can see arent the ones I worry about... :shock:


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## bigj (Aug 30, 2012)

anyone seen the native watercraft mariner propel?


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## sbd (Aug 18, 2006)

bigj said:


> anyone seen the native watercraft mariner propel?


Here's a start ;-) 
search.php?keywords=Native+watercraft+mariner


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## Noviceyakka (Apr 29, 2011)

Hi Guys,

I have a Mariner 12.5 propel - had it for about 18 months and just love it. I fish mostly outside - up to 2 Kms offshore and have landed tuna up to 35lb and snapper to 6Kg. I am almost 60 yo, no athlete with serious arthritis in my knees buy can pedal the kayak for 6-7 Kms on a normal outing with no problems. I launch it from a surf ramp at Woolgoolga so it can handle that as well.

If I can help with any advice on this particular type of kayak, let me know.

Garry


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## sog (Jun 9, 2012)

I got the revo because you can actually paddle it quite well
rudder gotta be down though
I often launch at a spot where it is very shallow flats
mirage drive fins up against the hull and I can paddle in into what seems like 6 inches of water
I actually enjoy paddling the revo ... but without the rudder I'm at the mercy of the wind


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## Nativeman (Sep 6, 2005)

Artie said:


> and to highlight my point...... just serviced the Mirage drive...... a bent mast, damn those things are tough.... all fixed..... the logs I can see arent the ones I worry about... :shock:


I had a revo once, in a river on a weekend away in the middle of nowhere, hit an enormous log with my drive. Drove the mast through my fins, wrecked my weekend as we did dam fishing after that and as my particular revo did not paddle that well with rudder up or down. Not long after that I changed to full time paddle yaks.

With a paddle yak you can use and abuse it, go any where you want in a river, plus when you get home there is no maintenance.

So this is one of the many reasons I prefer Paddle..


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## Artie (Dec 19, 2011)

Nativeman said:


> Artie said:
> 
> 
> > and to highlight my point...... just serviced the Mirage drive...... a bent mast, damn those things are tough.... all fixed..... the logs I can see arent the ones I worry about... :shock:
> ...


Hi Sel, Im agreeing with so much of what you have written here, but Im smiling as I type this, its one of the many reasons why I prefer access to both... I know that for many of us, our boats are an emotional thing, and Im the same, cept i have twins and I love them both equally and accept that they both have limitations (as well as 'special' abilities).

The Mirage drive is still 'new' to me so Im probably using it in places I should hop into the Quest, that will change over time...

Incidentally, Ive noticed a black stain in the Mirage drive well, and an oily film on calm water within the well... when I checked it over this weekend I found it had been assemballed with black graphite grease... Ill have to strip it and get rid of it.. gotta research the correct lubricants etc... its making a mess of the hull and the waterways...


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## Artie (Dec 19, 2011)

sog said:


> I got the revo because you can actually paddle it quite well
> rudder gotta be down though
> I often launch at a spot where it is very shallow flats
> mirage drive fins up against the hull and I can paddle in into what seems like 6 inches of water
> I actually enjoy paddling the revo ... but without the rudder I'm at the mercy of the wind


Hi Sog, that was my expectation as well, after my very positive experience with the Quest I was a bit non-plussed to discover that the Revo wasnt as well graced with the glide-ability that I was used to with the Quest. I was then relieved to discover that others have the same issue...that is, it wasnt a bent boat or something nasty...


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## Ado (Mar 31, 2008)

I paddle my Adventure all the time. I never have a problem with tracking or turning with the rudder up. The only time I paddle with the rudder down is in cross-winds. I wonder why the Revo is so different.


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## Squidley (May 8, 2010)

As soon as I stop paddling the Revo 11 with the rudder up it immediately turns opposite the last stroke. Comparing the hulls of my previous yak with it (50 cm shorter but let you glide forward for a few moments) it has a much less pronounced keel(?) toward the back. I think the manoeuvrability it has with rudder and fins down might've come at the cost of tracking with its gear up.


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## neale (Sep 2, 2010)

I also paddle my Adventure on a regular basis with the rudder up and have no problem with it at all. 
Today was the 102nd time that I've had it on the water,(and SWMBO said that I'd never use it), and I find myself paddling for one kilometer, then pedaling for the next k, etc, etc. I have a GPS.


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## forbs (May 20, 2008)

When we're heading the 5km home at 8pm at night on a balmy night at Tuross and i'm in the Outback having a cold drink and eating some food. I enjoy looking over at my mate paddling like crazy getting wet from the water dripping down his paddle.

I'll always offer some sort of sledge and a quick cheers ! Back at the pub we have this discussion a lot of the time. Whilst both my mates like their paddle yaks they agree i have my line in the water a lot more than they do. Especially fishing into the current holding position over a snag or oyster lease. One of them will be buying a Hobie after seeing how much easier it seems to be for me. The other says he realises i get more fishing time but likes the exercise the paddling gives him so won't change.

I mainly fish estuaries and Tuross is not deep. The outback is a pig to turn and yep with rudder up one of your arms will end up like popeyes stopping it going in circles with any wind. I've also had to bend the mast back a few times in the vice, an easy fix. Buy a few spare parts and save some money. I'm not having a go at anyone or saying what kayak is better. I've also thought of buying a paddle Yak but at the moment i'm enjoying the sledging way too much.


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## Berger (Aug 13, 2012)

Tonystott said:


> Am I the only one who realises you can instantly lift the Miragedrive out and drop it in backwards for really powerful reverse gear?


No, I do so also.

Theres a trick or two with the Hobie in reverse, which deserves a thread of its own.


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## Squidley (May 8, 2010)

I'd be interested to hear it; there's a jetty I'd like to extract a kingfish from.


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## Berger (Aug 13, 2012)

Hi Squidley,

It's the ability to hold off from structure and fish it strategically, when currents or wind are pushing you onto it.

I did a brief search and this topic was sort of covered here, particularly by elm

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=43871&p=451990&hilit=mirage+reverse#p451990


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## butterfingers (Aug 21, 2009)

I've been bugging my wife for a hobie for 2 years now and last week after the tax man gave me some of my hard earned money back I've been given the green light. I read this topic as most peddel v paddle threads are mostly sledgeing matches but now I'm so confused as I've never heard so many negative things mentioned about the mirage drive. Also I fish mainly the canals so would a revo be too big or should I go for a outback?


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## Artie (Dec 19, 2011)

G'day Nate, I'm the OP and I can't tell you I will never be without my mirage drive, my point is that there is a place for both. Neither is exclusive in my world. In open snag free water you will love a revo. I love mine!


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