# Dacron leader knot



## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

After some pretty dissapointing fish losses in the last few months I thought I'd start from scratch and revist every knot through the rig to see where I could improve things.

Today, I adapted a pretty uncommon knot to create a braid to leader connection and tested it about 20 times. Every test was a complete success and I had a zero failure rate between the mono leader and the dacron covered braided area. Under full load, each break occurred higher up the mainline and well clear of all knots except once where I snapped a swivel right at the end of the leader.

The knot in question is called the spectra knot and you need dacron braid to do it: http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/ ... p?t=501138

Rather than complete the knot by tying a braided loop, I cut a 200mm length of 50lb dacron. Then on my 50lb main line braid I created a long 150mm loop and threaded the braid double through the hollow dacron with a bait needle for about 100mm. I then tied a granny knot in the same position as shown in the link. From the open end, I then pushed 60lb mono leader through the dacron right up to the point where it hits the braid and tied another granny knot to secure the mono at the leader end.


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## Fishpod (Oct 11, 2006)

Amazing Dan that this holds with no "knot" directly linking braid and mono. Seems too simple to be so strong? or am I reading this all wrong?

Will try it out and test etc.

Thanks for posting.

A


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## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

Fishpod said:


> Amazing Dan that this holds with no "knot" directly linking braid and mono. Seems too simple to be so strong? or am I reading this all wrong?
> 
> Will try it out and test etc.
> 
> ...


Bloody bizarre ay Fishpod :shock: :shock: :shock: It's like the pressure created by the hollow dacron is what holds it firm. Somehow the overhand/ granny knot doesn't weaken it too much even at the leader end.


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## water_baby (Oct 26, 2005)

very similar in concept to using hollow spectra for wind-ons, but without the hassles of tying with cotton and all that. i'll be investigating this one a bit further methinks.. thanks Dan 8)


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## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

Just like the old chinese finger puzzle eh?


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

Just a few of dumb questions.
Where do you get the dacron from? Is it bought by the meter or roll?
So you dont actually tie the nylon to the braid?
I guess you could do the same with much lighter lines and have the added bonus of no big knots getting caught on the guids when casting :?

Thanks Dan


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## Breambo (Apr 19, 2006)

Used a similiar knot on paraglider and kitesurfing lines for a quick repair, breaking strain 300lb, never failed.
Can be bought by the roll, quite expensive, from memory an online kite supplier had good deals. Probably the marine supplies would stock some for purchase by the metre.


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## Fishpod (Oct 11, 2006)

Hey AWTY - check here http://www.wellsystackle.com/shop/ then go to "wind on leader and accessories" - they sell shorter lengths. Just another item to add to my next order.  

no affiliation................


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## ArWeTherYet (Mar 25, 2007)

Thanks for the link Anthony.....love a place that does direct deposits as I dont have a credit card.
At about $13 for 25 yards of 30lb delivered to my door, its sure as hell worth a try.


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## paulo (Nov 1, 2007)

Just out of interest Dan, what knot were you using to join your leader before? I use the plain old double uni but even 60 lb is hard to get a decent knot formation. I crimped 100lb leader and used a double in the braid to join. Not something that is easy to retie quickly out there. How do you think you would go rerigging this new one on the water? It looks fiddly.


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## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

paulo said:


> what knot were you using to join your leader before?


For a while I was using the PR knot but found I needed to retie after every session which takes ages. Then I settled for a 12 turn bimini twist joined to a 7 turn Yucatan. Sometimes this would hold beautifully and other times it failed miserably. I've reached the point where I'd rather sacrifice a bit of strength and get some consistency.



paulo said:


> How do you think you would go rerigging this new one on the water? It looks fiddly.


On the water this knot would be impossible to tie. Also, I never carry spare leader anyway. If my mainline fails in the water I generally stop fishing that rod for the rest of the session. If both mainlines fail on 50lb braid, it represents a bad day so I usually head back in or if fish are going nuts (rarely), I'll suicide rig straight onto braid with the knowledge that the odds are reduced.

KNOT REVISIONS - Last night, I tested this even more and found the braid end pulled through a couple of times under direct load. To solve this, (its hard to explain) I used a bait needle to push a braid loop out through the dacron. I then put the loop over the dacron to create a lock and tied the first granny knot as usual with another granny knot a bit further up on the braid. On the mono end, I was able to slide it underneath the braid loop by about an inch and then do the regular knot to lock it off.
The principal here is that the 2 x granny knots on the braid distribute the tension while the loop over the dacron locks the mono while creating a final braid defence. Using scales I tested this knot on a direct pull and regularly got 20-26kg before the main line snapped.


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## Dave73 (Dec 3, 2006)

Hey Dan, havent sussed out the link or the knot but sounds similar to gamefishing wind ons!?
Remember those guys sand paper the mono leader to help the dacron to bite!
This would be even more important for harder fluro leaders. I do similar for FG knots (similar to PR) when using fluro leaders, just rough it up a bit to help it bite.

You dont cast much though do you? Is this mainly for livies and trolling rigs? Why dont you bimini the braid and albright or cairns quickie to the leader?? :?

(I guess if I read the full thread I wouldn't be asking stupid questions...)


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## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

Dave73 said:


> Why dont you bimini the braid and albright or cairns quickie to the leader?? :?


Ay Dave, I tried all those knots you mentioned and never ever thought of roughing up the mono which may have something to do with it.

Still, I think I've stumbled onto a corker of a knot.  

Like you said, its kind of like a wind on. I've now made about 20 trials of the improved version and I still haven't pulled either the braid or mono or broken any area covered by dacron. All breaks are in the mainline. I am stoked. Finally I think I have a trusty and reliable braid to leader solution that requires bugger all knot skill. 

I might post some photographic step-by-steps tomorrow if I get time.


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## reefcheck (Jul 20, 2006)

HI

Here another link to the same approach using dacron and granny knots

http://www.fishingkites.co.nz/fishingkn ... _line.html


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## yaker (Aug 29, 2005)

.


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## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

Yaker: My knots are so bad I don't even know what they're called :lol: :lol: :lol: Granny, overhand, thumb - For idiots like me, it's the first knot I ever learnt to tie ;-)

Anyway, here are the pics and it is still the most consistent leader to briad connection I've ever tied:

[Edit] When I say consistent, I mean over the last 3 days of figuring out how to tie it properly and testing it over and over again.


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## yaker (Aug 29, 2005)

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## water_baby (Oct 26, 2005)

yaker said:


> Great photo tutorial Dan! I can now see how the braid locks into the dacron. I still think this would make a great way to make a loop on the end the main line to attach to a wind-on leader, but I guess most would just tie a double in the braid and use that for the loop-to-loop connection. I'll have to think about this some more...


exactly. bimini to dacron loop is the classic wind-on you buy in the shops pre-made. all you need is a quick tutorial from someone who knows how to do it (or search 360Tuna forum ;-) ), a bait needle (they're called something else for wind-ons, i forget), some hollow spectra/dacron, a spool of fluoro, some cotton thread and some superglue. instead of $15 for a 3 metre wind-on, you get a full spools worth.

the other advantage of the classic wind-on is that you can carry them, pre-rigged with hooks, in a small pouch, and only have to tie a bimini on the yak (or other suitable double) to attach it. i have to say i like the ingenuity of your work though Dan, i too like to learn by experience. causes a few failures along the way, but you end up with a much better end-product


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## L3GACY (Sep 2, 2007)

Just a quick thanks for the posts Dan. Might end up giving this one a go.


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## fishinswing (May 15, 2006)

Hey Dan, only way to really test it now is to drop a livey over the side of the yak and wait for a very big kingy to swallow it and hang on. If you bring the monster to the surface, the knot has passed with flying colours and then we want to hear the whole story about another great catch. I will certianly try this knot, takes the whole bimini twist /uni knot whatever connection out of the rigging. Simple but very effective. WOW, getting approx 26kgs of pressure before your mainline breaks not the connection. You are the man - Dan.


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