# Knots breaking



## Cuda (Sep 18, 2006)

I am experiencing a lot of broken / snapped knots with my mono leaders that I am tying to my doubled braid main line. It seems that the braid must be cutting into the thicker mono when I am getting snagged and applying minimal sort of strain on the line as the double is remaining intact. 
I am using an Albright knot to join the two lines, but must be doing something wrong as this is happening all the time. Braid is 15 kilo and the mono leader is 27 kilo. Should I drop down my leader to 15 kilo too?
I am careful to ensure that the knots are pulled tight when tied so they shouldn't be slipping - I think :roll: 
Any suggestions folks


----------



## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

This may sound like a stupid question, but are you tying the braid onto the mono or the mono onto the braid. The albright is designed to tie a thin line onto a thick line, so you have to tie the braid onto a loop formed in the mono


----------



## Cuda (Sep 18, 2006)

That's not a stupid question Peril, I understand what you are saying. I just went into the site that shows how to tie the knot and I didn't pay attention when I first looked at the animation of the knot  
So I am the stupid one and will tie the knot the right way now :x 
I take it that it doesn't matter if the braid is doubled, you just tie the knot as specified by looping the braid around the thicker mono eh :?:


----------



## Peril (Sep 5, 2005)

I don't see any point in the double unless you have a long one to protect against abrasion


----------



## Dodge (Oct 12, 2005)

Mark after using an Albright for a long while I saw reference to the Surgeons Join on the Berkley SP DVD as in this link, but you have to use 5-6 turns using braid according to the DVD.

Have found it can be tied easily [including on the yak] and worth looking at mate, and may solve your problem

http://www.animatedknots.com/surgeonsjo ... g&Website=


----------



## Cuda (Sep 18, 2006)

Onya Richo, you're most helpful as always mate 
Peril - you're probably right, a mug fisho like me should keep it simple :lol:


----------



## wolfy (Apr 27, 2007)

Remember that braid and fused are different, but we tend to call it all braid.

"Fireline" etc is fused gelspun... real braided line will need a bimini double to tie a leader on, it's a pain in the butt. Anything else will slip.


----------



## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

Rather than pulling tight on a finger pull. Test it out properly on a nail driven into a post. Just attach a good quality crane snap swivel and keep locking up the drag as you walk backwards.

With a 60lb leader on 30lb braid you should be getting a really solid connection on the double. I use a freaky knot that wraps inside the double but can't explain it.

I fully support the use a double.


----------



## Billybob (Aug 29, 2005)

Cuda, I had the same problem a while ago when I moved from mono to braid.

For me the problem was the mono leader I was terminating my 20lb Fireline with. It was 40lb SureCatch. Good enough for mono to mono but not a good match for braid.

It would hold up for a session or two but the braid would cut through it without warning (and under very little load) the next time out, even though I'd stressed tested it the night before.

I'm using 30lb flurocarbon at the moment and haven't had a problem so far.

I do a Bimini Twist to match the line diameter of the mono by the way.


----------



## Cuda (Sep 18, 2006)

Thanks Billybob. Your comments sort of ring home the need to re-tie knots regularly and I'm a lazy bugger - no pun intended to anyone  
I know of pro anglers who re-tie knots every 20 casts or so :shock:


----------



## Billybob (Aug 29, 2005)

A man's gotta do....


----------



## FletcherG1991 (Apr 17, 2007)

wolfy said:


> Remember that braid and fused are different, but we tend to call it all braid.
> 
> "Fireline" etc is fused gelspun... real braided line will need a bimini double to tie a leader on, it's a pain in the butt. Anything else will slip.


I use 'real' braid all the time, i only have 1 reel with fused gelspun on it.

I have never had a problem with braid slipping when joining my leader and i dont use a double when using light line (4lb) though i am usually using a uni to uni.

When I tie an albright I form the loop with the braid (wether it be cause it is a double or just simply forming a loop) and do the wraps with the fluro/mono. I have had no problems with slipages (even when tieing 50lb braid onto 130lb leader where there is a huge difference in diametre).

Cheers,
Fletcher


----------



## Davey G (Jan 15, 2006)

cuda - don't forget to wet the knots with spit before snugging them tight. any heat / friction will weaken the mono if you dont wet the knot before pulling it tight - another possible reason for knot failure.


----------



## sbd (Aug 18, 2006)

I now run braid or Fireline on all my reels (6lb-50lb), and after much experimentation with albrights and biminis and every other knot in Geoff Wilson's fine books I have reverted to the simple uni to uni knot to attach leader for all of them. I use mostly Jinkai leader (20, 40 & 60lb), and fluorocarbon on my light kit, and am yet to break one at the knot (on my 50lb braid, with 60lb leader, I have straightened a 6/0 hook when snagged without the line breaking). Even with 6lb, I see no sign of the braid cutting the mono. I do 6 or 7 turns in the mono and 11 turns in the braid at all weights, and usually use about 2m of leader (sometimes with an additional hook trace).

Generally, I fish a breaking strain in the mono that is nominally equivalent to the rating of the braid, meaning the line usually breaks in the leader if it's going to, saving all my lovely braid.


----------



## mullet gut (Apr 25, 2006)

I reckon Davey G has made a really important point. You can have the best knot in the world but if you don't lubricate the knot (spit) when tightening you are going to have far more snap offs. The knot tightens up more smoothly when you lubricate - you can feel it - less stess has g :lol: ot to be easier on your line.
It just feels so much better when you use lubricant ... if you know what I mean.


----------



## Gigantor (Jun 27, 2006)

Cuda, Been using Fireline and fluorocarbon for quite a few years now and have used the double uni-knot for joining the leader to the mainline. Have not had any problems. I know there are more complex knots used. But I like to keep it real simple - particularly if it works well. I tend to use 10lb Fireline to either 12lb or 8lb fluorocarbon leader. I chase bass, yellas, catfish in fresh and flathead, bream etc. in salt. Cheers, Pete


----------



## Cuda (Sep 18, 2006)

Thanks for the insightful replies folks. I will be much the wiser when tying my knots now


----------



## Hobie-wan (Mar 10, 2006)

G'day all, well to start this off I will let you know that I trust an albright knot like my life depended on it. Knots are all about confidence and after the weekend just gone I am more than confident in my knots. Here is a funny little story to tell you why I am like this, on the weekend just gone myself and a few mates went out on a charter from tin can bay to the outside of fraser island. Had a great time overnight sunday and then coming back in monday we decided to troll a few lures out the back, well that little decision cost me dearly. I ended up losing a $400 rod and reel over the back of the boat to something that may have been a cruise missile. Sitting about six foot away from my rod with my back turned talking to one of my mates and the skipper, in the time that it took my mate to yell you're on and for me to turn around both the rod and the rodholder that was welded to the boat had both disappeared out of sight. Moral of the story: Have confidence in whatever knots you tie.


----------



## Lureme (Jul 1, 2007)

Old post I know but 8) it's still a problem for some, the uni, perfection and albright cover most for me and I don't have problems with knots.
Here is a good site for knots http://www.ausfish.com.au/knots/


----------

