# Suggestions for Outer Reef please?



## AdrianK (May 30, 2006)

Going to Swains Saturday week (driving up Thursday or Friday week) with my 15yr old son and the operator is letting us take a few kayaks on the roof of the mother ship.

Opinions humbly sought are these:

1. Take our Outback and Prowler13? Or the main hull, one aka/ama and tramp of the Tandem Island?

2. If the TI, best way to transport? Drive to Gladstone maybe 6.5hrs? Likely to have Aurian sedan with roof racks. Could buy TI cradles. Spaced enough on roof racks?

Really like some opinions, and this always seems a great place to get 'em....


----------



## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

Adrian, I'm thinking the TI hull. But take decent paddles. Mate, why is the trip to Gladdy worrying you? I know you've done it before. Personally I would avoid the trailer if I could.

I am totally green about this trip. ENJOY!


----------



## AdrianK (May 30, 2006)

Thanks Dru. Maybe the trip to Gladdy is worrying me cos the last two trips to Awoonga were donuts!
Third time lucky?


----------



## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

Mate, you will not donut at the Swains!

I said to Al and will say the same to you. Yes focus on line fishing. But take the time to get out of the yak/boat and walk the reef. Snorkel in the shallows looking for crays. (They can be 6kg+)

Stink bait is probably best, plastics work, and trolling the reef edge is fun. Trolling open areas should work for pelagics.

Still I have only been to Norwest - as has Trevor. Awesome trip. Kick ass bloke!


----------



## AJD (Jul 10, 2007)

My vote is for the TI mate.
My brother is bringing his Prowler and I'm bringing the profish. I'm sure if you want or Josh want some single fishing time we can accommodate.

X2 on the mask and snorkels! + plenty of squid jigs.


----------



## BIGKEV (Aug 18, 2007)

Take a shark shield if you have access to one.

I did a swains trip a few years ago with no less than 6 of our guys on board snorkelling and spearing (nucking futs, if you ask me) As soon as they hit the water the sharks appeared and followed them everywhere. Every time they speared a fish the bastards tried to steal them with several close calls wrestling with fish and shark on a spear. The guys with a SS had fewer problems but still had one notable incident.


----------



## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

Kev, I have some experience on the reef but not on the outer reef. (I'm 51 now and first started visiting the reef at age 12.) Your statement raises my hackles, but perhaps the Southern reef experience does not replicate the Swains?

Let me talk from my experience (which after all is all I can do). On the reef there are always sharks. By the dozen. Mostly reefies, But with whalers intermixed. Reefies are friendly puppy dogs, rarely over 2m. But they will chase an injured fish. Aggressively, they are afterall sharks. Take care when spear fishing (not sure this is what Ade and Al are intending but you brought it up.)

The whalers bother me a bit more when I am snorkling, but only to the point that I keep my eye on them. Sooner or later (sooner actually) you lose them. If they wanted to take a driving attack launch at me there's no way I would avoid it. But for crying out loud this is the reef, what chance a 2m or 2.5m whaler is going to prefer to munch me in stead of the smorgasbord on offer!?! None I think.

I've also seen this sort of shark "trained" (by the amount of spear fishing and fish dumping going on) to chase the "twang" sound of a spear going off. Wouldn't stop me spear fishing but I'd be thinking about it. This sort of thing must surely be more prevalent in the south than the outer reef.

It's actually exciting when you do manage to bump into something big. For me this is either a tiger (rare for me even out there) or a big hammer. Had this experience by yak at Christmas with a 14' or 15' hammer. Awesome experience though with a heart rate of 240. If something like that got aggressive my suggestion is simply to let it win. It's going to chase a hooked or speared fish. Let it. Move on. Dominance in this environment has just been proven. In this particular experience it could not get far enough away from me fast enough. I was very shortly after in the water untangling lines from the rudder. Was I worried? Yes actually but at that stage it's a head game. Being 50k + off shore has risks! big sharks are on that list but really not very high up that list.

Personally this is not an environment that I would use a SS. To be fair I don't use one anywhere, but I understand, support and recommend them sometimes in places like Longie and Moreton Bay. But on the reef where waters are shallow (where it gets interesting anyway) it will impact a lot of wildlife out there and this is what you want to see.

Adrian and Allan, enjoy it, get involved, get in the water not just paddling over it. No point going there and not experiencing it. I'm still VERY jealous.


----------



## BIGKEV (Aug 18, 2007)

The bigger fellas tend to stay in the deeper waters, the boys will see them at the back of the boat as the deckie starts cleaning the catch after each session, some were as big as the dories, as were some of the trevally that also hang around the boats at cleaning time, they looked like underwater VW's. It's always fun lobbing out the frame of a trout or other reefie with a massive hook, wire leader and heavy outfit, all destined to lose the battle but fun none the less. The deckies just shake their heads.....

It was mostly reefies shadowing the spearo's with just one whaler making a random appearance whilst in the shallows. The shallows I talk of were about 5m deep with some deeper channels between. They were very keyed in on the sound of a speargun and immediately become agitated and invaded personal space in the search for the speared fish. Lots of people out there spearfish so they generally know what to expect when people are in the water, if you're not spearing they may possibly lose interest and move on.

I also do not use a SS, but think if I was going to give spearing a go out there, I would definitely want one.

Yep, jealous also. Not trying to scare anybody just talkin from my experience in this area. Something that should be on every fishermans bucket list if you ask me, and is also not as cost prohibitive as you might think.

If you only take onboard one piece of advise from me then I urge you to heed the following: Forget about rods, expensive reels and braided lines. Get yourself an 80-100pd hand line rig with a single hook and small sinker, you will land three times as many fish in this environment if that is what you are looking to do. If you want the challenge, fight and possible disappointment of losing a good fish then stick with the rods.

It took me 5 out of my 7 days out there to convert and I caught more fish in my last 4 sessions with the handline than I did the whole week prior. It's still heaps of fun and a challenge, but you stand a greater chance of landing the fish.


----------



## Zed (Sep 18, 2006)

dru said:


> But for crying out loud this is the reef, what chance a 2m or 2.5m whaler is going to prefer to munch me in stead of the smorgasbord on offer!?! None I think.


Great point. Mistaken identity in murky water, or by a mammal-eater is one thing, but in that environment those are fish-eaters. Except a tiger. I think if I ever see a tiger while diving I'll shit.


BIGKEV said:


> If you only take onboard one piece of advise from me then I urge you to heed the following: Forget about rods, expensive reels and braided lines. Get yourself an 80-100pd hand line rig with a single hook and small sinker, you will land three times as many fish in this environment if that is what you are looking to do. If you want the challenge, fight and possible disappointment of losing a good fish then stick with the rods.
> 
> It took me 5 out of my 7 days out there to convert and I caught more fish in my last 4 sessions with the handline than I did the whole week prior. It's still heaps of fun and a challenge, but you stand a greater chance of landing the fish.


Well, there's the whole skull-drag v play out debate right there in a nutshell, eh?

You all make it sound an amazing, life-time chance thing. I envy anyone that has enough knowledge to share from multiple trips over many years.


----------



## BIGKEV (Aug 18, 2007)

Zed said:


> BIGKEV said:
> 
> 
> > If you only take onboard one piece of advise from me then I urge you to heed the following: Forget about rods, expensive reels and braided lines. Get yourself an 80-100pd hand line rig with a single hook and small sinker, you will land three times as many fish in this environment if that is what you are looking to do. If you want the challenge, fight and possible disappointment of losing a good fish then stick with the rods.
> ...


When I look back on it, the logic kicks in and has me regretting using the rods in the shallows for the trout and the frustration it caused me at the time.

Some simple facts:

Water in the shallows we fished was between 5m and 10m generally, with enough visibility to see fish swimming around the coral bommies below. Sight fishing 

If you lobbed out a bait with a large sinker it would spiral to the bottom in a cloud of bubbles, fish would see it coming and scatter. Sure you might get the odd dumb fish, but not as many.

If you dropped an unweighted or very lightly weighted bait (pilchard, squid, flesh etc) it would float to the bottom slowly, the fish would watch it coming down, others would materialise from under nearby bommies ready to attack it when it got close enough.

The fish would never really venture more than a metre or so from the safety of an overhanging bommie & when they grabbed the bait they would immediately run back under the bommie.

When using a rod, the line would only start loading the rod up when the fish was almost back at the bommie due to angles, action of the rod etc. And by the time you came up fully tight the braid would instantly be sliced by the coral.

When using a handline you have direct contact with the line, as soon as the fish takes the bait you can feel it. One pull of the line can gain almost a metre, the second grab and pull can get you another metre. This gets the fish out of the danger zone, and even if it does get its head down and under the rock the abrasion resistance of the mono can still see you in with a fair chance to get it out again.

This is how the pro trout fishers ply their trade for the Asian live trout industry. They work these reefs incessantly using handlines, not because they are a cheap low cost item, but because they are the most effective way to fish the area for their target species.

Also a trick the guys used on my trip if you do attempt some spearing for targeting the red throat emperors is to sit on the bottom between the bommies and throw a handful of sand up, as the silt clears you will see that the fish are out of their hiding holes looking to see what has caused the fuss, take aim, shoot and then get the fish strait to the surface and hold it out of the water, always keep a support person in the dorie to take the fish off the spears. Trout are deep under the overhangs of the bommies, the deeper you can dive the better the fish.

You're right Zed, it is a life changing experience living on the reef for 7 days with nothing else to do except for fishing, having a drink with mates and few games of cards of a night.

You guys are gonna have a ball.

Kev


----------



## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

x2 on the hand lines. Light weight with bait floated at the drop off good too. Though I like trolling the edge with rods and big lures. One at 1m the other as deep as I can get it. You will hit bottom and lose lures like this but it's worth it. Aggressive action and rattle wanted.

These days my reef fishing is 99% yak fishing so not deep stuff. But now that you mention it dropping the frames at the end of the day over deep reefs, yep monster sharks, not a time to be in the water.


----------



## AJD (Jul 10, 2007)

Just over a week to go. Have needed the handlines advice boys thanks!
No spearing. Just snorkelling, and hopefully the odd cray to catch.
My 13 yr old is super excited. I think I'll have just as much watching him as fishing.


----------



## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

I'm getting very excited. YABBA YABBA YABBA. Yahoo! *Swains*. A kid about to go to Ekka....maybe even greater. It has been a 40 year lifetime dream, and is about to come true with fellow forum members. Thanks heaps to the previously experienced forumites who have offered advice.


----------



## BIGKEV (Aug 18, 2007)

Go to your local bike store and ask if they have some old inner tubes they don't want. Cut them into finger length protectors for handlining to stop the line cutting your fingers.

Take antiseptic, you will get spiked, get line cuts etc, they end up infected at the end of the week. My hands were red and fingers were red, sore and swollen on my return.

The fish seemed to like squid as bait, we took a heap of boxes with us as our boat only provided pilchards and then encouraged us to use rubbish fish as fresh flesh baits. The bait squid that you buy make great bait whole, the squid you catch on the boat at night are big and best as cut baits. Some of the squid we caught at night would have been pushing the kilo mark, they were massive.


----------



## gbc (Feb 16, 2012)

....


----------



## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

Thanks gbc. Great encouragement. 

That really increased my prospects of enjoying the Swains.

Nevertheless, I'll be fishing and diving and spearfishing, Come what may. I may meet my maker.


----------



## Zed (Sep 18, 2006)

gbc said:


> Having flown around that area for years, and spent many weeks atop the North reef lighthouse I can confirm 2 things about the tigers that live in the area.
> 1. If you see a tiger in the water before it has bitten you in half, it isn't in the mood to eat you.
> 2. There is a real good reason the local fish hang very tight on the bommies.
> .


1) Good to know. Just like whites and crocs and mountain lions. Tigers though do eat anything and everything. I sure wouldnt feel good about seeing one until I was back on board or land.
2) Yeah I saw Finding Nemo.
3). Thanks for posting. Thats good stuff.


----------



## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

Hope we don't get any of these...






What would you do? :shock:


----------



## badmotorfinger (Mar 15, 2010)

kayakone said:


> Hope we don't get any of these...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ask it who is going to win the next world cup.


----------



## AdrianK (May 30, 2006)

AJD said:


> My vote is for the TI mate.
> My brother is bringing his Prowler and I'm bringing the profish. I'm sure if you want or Josh want some single fishing time we can accommodate.
> 
> X2 on the mask and snorkels! + plenty of squid jigs.


Not confident about the TI on sedan roof racks - 18' long and heavy with racks barely a metre apart. Probably opt for Outback and Prowler if the operator can fit 4 yaks on top.


----------



## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

AdrianK said:


> AJD said:
> 
> 
> > My vote is for the TI mate.
> ...


Ron has just phoned me and is OK with the AI. I'm taking all my own cam straps to secure it and the 500 pieces.  Adrian, would you like me to take your TI and you take my AI? My car has four racks (Hilux with 50 cm longer than standard back canopy)? Or maybe I take both boats, and masts, and you take the four amas only?


----------



## gbc (Feb 16, 2012)

..


----------



## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

gbc said:


> Didn't mean to scare you, I'm sure you'll have a ball. I've dived at the swains, it's not exactly outer reef. Haha seriously people dive with sharks all the time and how many die?


Didn't mean to scare me, well you did. I'm the only one spearing, and I've already had a long and scary encounter with being trapped on a bommie of plate corals by a tiger, that wanted the Spaniard we'd just shot (Whitsundays). It wouldn't leave us alone, and meanwhile the tide was flooding so fast that we were now waist deep.

They are very aggressive.


----------



## gbc (Feb 16, 2012)

..


----------



## WhipperSnapper (Jun 2, 2012)

gbc said:


> Having flown around that area for years, and spent many weeks atop the North reef lighthouse I can confirm 2 things about the tigers that live in the area.
> 1. If you see a tiger in the water before it has bitten you in half, it isn't in the mood to eat you.
> 2. There is a real good reason the local fish hang very tight on the bommies.
> 
> As the tide comes over the reef edge it is a privilege to watch a tiger stalk its prey from something like 40 metres away - the fish have zero clue they are even being watched - humans have no chance if one wants you.


To be honest, I don't think me or AdrianK are too worried about sharks :lol: We are looking forward to seeing sharks and we actually intend to snorkel with them at one stage or another. 
With the decision on the TI or single kayaks. There is multiple reasons were leaning towards the singles. 
1) significantly easier to get to swains.
2) We have quite well set up single kayaks. Not a lot of effort required in setup and packup
3) If sharks are the concern then we aren't too worried
4) BOTH kayaks have sails
5) I'm honestly not expecting to spend a heap of the 5 days on the kayaks.


----------



## AJD (Jul 10, 2007)

Less than a week to go!!!!


----------



## AJD (Jul 10, 2007)

Countdown - 3 more working days to go!


----------



## AdrianK (May 30, 2006)

kayakone said:


> Ron has just phoned me and is OK with the AI. I'm taking all my own cam straps to secure it and the 500 pieces.  Adrian, would you like me to take your TI and you take my AI? My car has four racks (Hilux with 50 cm longer than standard back canopy)? Or maybe I take both boats, and masts, and you take the four amas only?


That's ok Trevor thanks anyway - I'll stick with the two singles - will be a lot easier for me to manage off and on boat roof.
Drive safe and see you up there - AK


----------



## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

Al, I'm going Friday, gentlemen's hours, in case there is a problem with the ancient Hilux. See you around midday Saturday at the Marina. Hope we catch some very big carp.


----------



## AJD (Jul 10, 2007)

kayakone said:


> Al, I'm going Friday, gentlemen's hours, in case there is a problem with the ancient Hilux. See you around midday Saturday at the Marina. Hope we catch some very big carp.


No worries Trev. You've got my mobile number. PM me yours and that way we should be able to meet up ok.

Al


----------



## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

The Swains are calling.

I'm a kid in a lolly shop with $ 20.


----------

