# Expensive lures and dodgy hardware - Why?



## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

A warning to buyers of expensive lures, like Rapala and Sebile. I have bought a few good lures recently (we won't talk about the buying, just the lures - I'm undergoing therapy ATM). On this trip..viewtopic.php?f=17&t=57696, I was using a 118 Koolie Minnow LL (long lip).

The first Jewie did this to the LL...










*Note straightened standard hooks. They are sharp, undoubtedly, but if targeting hard hitting species, are hopelessly inadequate. Rear treble has one hook snapped; front treble has one hook dangerously straightened .... lucky to land the fish. The planned replacements are in top right - 3X to 6X VMC*










*The replaced trebles: 6X rear & 3X front. 'Rubbish' destroyed hooks top left.*

(The lure pictured is the 118 mm LL, diving to 40 '. This was the lure that caught both of the Jewies. Scarby is only 20' max, so it must be on a short leash or you may lose it to the rock monster.)

Sebile have an answer to this sub-standard hardware, called 'Salt & Sun' series = S & S

http://www.sebile.com.au/Sebile_Product ... eries.html

Sebile Salt & Sun Lures Features:-

Fully reinforced, through wired and welded wire in the body of the lure. Fish will not break these lures. (Please note - Flat Shadd is not full wire in this series.)
Foam filled body, so that even if a big dogtooth or wahoo were to penetrate the plastic casing, the lure will still float and swim perfectly. No more water logged plastic body lures.
Strong Owner ST-66 Trebles on all Salt and Sun lures. We recommend that you change these to single hooks for targeting large fish, over about 20kg, but for smaller species, the trebles are fine.
Strong Owner split rings on all lures
80% Internally painted - this means that the lures are painted from the inside of the plastic body, and that when the body of the lure gets scratched up, the lures will still have their original internal paint finish.

The S&S range is dedicated to the big game fish. The lures have reinforced bodies, the hooks used are chosen because they are the strongest ones available, the split rings are really heavy duty to protect against opening, and then the injected plastic body itself is filled with foam. This is why your SEBILE lures aren't afraid of the most ferocious adversary, and even hard toothy bites - it will resist, last and even catch more big fish!










*160 mm LL and 135 mm LL in Salt & Sun series*



























*
Showing close up of S & S hardware on 135 LL (left) & 160 LL*

*S & S = Salt & Sun series = seriously upgraded hardware*

Shouldn't all hooks/split rings be like this, especially in the bigger lures, and when the lures cost $ 30 - 60 ?

Bring on the Spanish and Wahoo! Happy fishin'

trev


----------



## Bretto (May 23, 2010)

Stop catching vast numbers of big fish Trev and you'll cease to have this problem. :lol:

On topic, to seems to happen across the board. The lures I run for bream and bass constantly need the trebles replaced.

For the bigger species you always hear of people upgrading the trebles even prior to the lure's first use. I figured it was just a fact of life.


----------



## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

BrettoQLD said:


> Stop catching vast numbers of big fish Trev and you'll cease to have this problem. :lol:
> 
> On topic, to seems to happen across the board. The lures I run for bream and bass constantly need the trebles replaced.
> 
> For the bigger species you always hear of people upgrading the trebles even prior to the lure's first use. I figured it was just a fact of life.


Thanks Brett, but why don't they (the manufacturers who you are paying Squillions to for their gear) start nearer the higher end?

One clue may be that at the smaller lures end (Koolies specifically), I upgraded the trebles, and the lure changed from a 'floating' lure, to a sinking lure. Some of the smaller Sebile range are so finely tuned, that a change to upgraded hardware renders them no longer floating.

trev


----------



## Bretto (May 23, 2010)

Not sure

It may be a business thing. It may be that the company has an agreement with a particular manufacturer of hooks who may not produce heavy duty trebles. It may change the action of the lure to a point the lure company is not happy with.

Only one way to find out the rationale behind it. Fire off an email to Sebile and/or Rapala and ask the question. See what they come back with.


----------



## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

BrettoQLD said:


> Not sure
> 
> It may be a business thing. It may be that the company has an agreement with a particular manufacturer of hooks who may not produce heavy duty trebles. It may change the action of the lure to a point the lure company is not happy with.
> 
> Only one way to find out the rationale behind it. Fire off an email to Sebile and/or Rapala and ask the question. See what they come back with.


Eminently sensible reply Brett. Will do.

trev


----------



## Bretto (May 23, 2010)

Can't comment on the Rapala's but for the Koolie everyone here loves so much:

*Recommended for: Bass, Walleye, Striper, Redfish, Speckled trout, Snook, Pike*

Doesn't mention big-ass Jewie there.


----------



## scater (Nov 24, 2007)

Finer gauge wires will penetrate the fish's mouth better while heavy gauges struggle to punch past the barb, regardless of how sharp they are. Even though I upgrade my lures by necessity up here for barra, I find far more damage occurs to hooks as a result of wrenching the hook out with pliers rather than by actual fish action.


----------



## BIGKEV (Aug 18, 2007)

BrettoQLD said:


> Can't comment on the Rapala's but for the Koolie everyone here loves so much:
> 
> *Recommended for: Bass, Walleye, Striper, Redfish, Speckled trout, Snook, Pike*
> 
> Doesn't mention big-ass Jewie there.


Bingo!, not made for Australian species.



scater said:


> Finer gauge wires will penetrate the fish's mouth better while heavy gauges struggle to punch past the barb, regardless of how sharp they are. Even though I upgrade my lures by necessity up here for barra, I find far more damage occurs to hooks as a result of wrenching the hook out with pliers rather than by actual fish action.


Another correct answer.

How much did you screw your drag up? Could this have contributed to the damage?

Also please note that I have had a few Rapalas over the years that I used to love using for Jacks and they were well received but the same issue with bent trebles, split rings etc. I upgraded hardware as this is what 'I had read was the right thing to do but this changed the lures action with the extra weight of the new hardware and hits on these particular lures suffered. Tie on the same lure with original hardware and the fish would climb all over it again.

Good luck Trev, I hope your success rate doesn't suffer due to the hook upgrades like mine did.

But my one and only piece of advise would be don't worry about how you're going to land the fish before you've hooked it. Get connected to it first and then worry about it.

Kev


----------



## Beekeeper (Aug 20, 2011)

BIGKEV said:


> _I upgraded hardware as this is what 'I had read was the right thing to do but this changed the lures action with the extra weight of the new hardware and hits on these particular lures suffered. Tie on the same lure with original hardware and the fish would climb all over it again.
> 
> Good luck Trev, I hope your success rate doesn't suffer due to the hook upgrades like mine did._ Kev


One of the reasons I use singles (upgraded) is to lessen the weight difference that bigger trebles would add. They catch fish at approximately the same rate as the trebles, and the lure action don't seem to alter.



BIGKEV said:


> _But my one and only piece of advise would be don't worry about how you're going to land the fish before you've hooked it. Get connected to it first and then worry about it._
> 
> Kev


That's a classic line, Kev... and oh so true!

Jimbo


----------



## justcrusin (Oct 1, 2006)

Even the good quailty trebles need replacing, I carry a whole tackle box of spare trebles. For me bream crush oysters and cockles with there jaws 0.5mm thick steel doesnt stand much of a chance with the right bite. I have seen a big bream crush a chubby completely leaving us with one the eye the line was tied too.

Its just one of those things

One the flaoting thing definately you can change a lures whole action with different weight trebles. Its a good trick if you want a lure to do something a bit different

Cheers Dave


----------



## SharkNett (Feb 20, 2006)

A little off topic but why do single lure hooks only go to 1 or 1/0? There seems to be a huge market for bigger sizes.
Any why are there no decent singles or trebles without barbs? As far as I am aware the barb on hooks has been seen as pretty much redundant for many years. Keep the pressure on the fish and the hook will not drop out. Barbless hooks penetrate better, do less damage to fish during release and are easier to remove from anglers. No more trips to hospital because your hand of foot was in the wrong place.
I image that the manufacturer that releases decent versions of both products first will do a lot of business.


----------



## bruus (Aug 27, 2010)

kayakone said:


> we won't talk about the buying, just the lures - I'm undergoing therapy ATM


Uhhh hummmm!!!!!!!!


----------



## Beekeeper (Aug 20, 2011)

SharkNett said:


> A little off topic but why do single lure hooks only go to 1 or 1/0? There seems to be a huge market for bigger sizes.
> Any why are there no decent singles or trebles without barbs? As far as I am aware the barb on hooks has been seen as pretty much redundant for many years. Keep the pressure on the fish and the hook will not drop out. Barbless hooks penetrate better, do less damage to fish during release and are easier to remove from anglers. No more trips to hospital because your hand of foot was in the wrong place.
> I image that the manufacturer that releases decent versions of both products first will do a lot of business.


SharkNett... Decoy put out Jigging Singles that go up to at least 6/0's... the trouble is that they don't have them small enough to suit some of my lures... I'd like them to go down to 1's or 2's...

Gamakatsu hooks are a little suspect to me, although I use lots of them, only 'cos the size is right.

Decoys are much more robust, and they stay sharper, longer.

I've been purchasing both brands from Tackle World at Sandgate, Brisbane, Qld., so although you're from NSW, find the nearest Tackle World and if they don't stock them, get them to order some in for you.

All my bigger lures are fitted with Decoys, and my smaller ones with Gamakatsus.

Regarding barbless hooks... I won't use them anymore... barbs are there for a purpose, and if the hook does bend a little, the barb is still working to hold the fish... besides, it doesn't take much to crush the barb.

I lost a really good fish one particular day... the hook bent, but the first thing I noticed was that I'd crushed the barb... and rendered it useless to do its work... I haven't done it since, and replaced all my crushed barb hooks with barbed hooks.

Although it's contrary to the general opinion of other fishos, I'm happy with my catch rate, and by using singles, I have less hook-points to jag my body.

Cheers, Jimbo


----------



## Beekeeper (Aug 20, 2011)

Occulator said:


> Just about every article I've ever read (usually by old codgers) suggests upgrading lure hardware. I always thought that was crap. But I was wrong.
> 
> After quite a few failures I have decided to upgrade nearly every lure I have, and after reading an article the other day about chemically sharpened hooks not being able to be re-sharpened I will be treating them as disposable/limited use gear. And here's something else I didn't know. Apparently just trolling them in salt water will blunt them through electrolysis). Strange but true?


Hi Paul...

Many years ago, I bought some pretty pricey big suicide hooks... used them for a while, then noticed one was blunt... I duly sharpened it, and didn't take a lot of notice until I missed a couple of fish... the point was gone... and the metal inside the shiny exterior had turned black.

I threw that one away, and replaced it with another from the same pack... little while later, blunt, sharpened, point went missing and the end was black... same all over again!

I believe that I still have them somewhere... they looked too good to dispense with, but I had absolutely no faith in them, so they were never used again.

The Gamakatsu hooks I've been using of late... I check them every time before I hit the water... sometimes there's one that's blunt, so I replace it... but if I'm out on the briney and I notice it's not up to standard, I sharpen it... I also have noticed that these hooks don't hold a sharpening for long enough, so they're scrapped also.

The only reason I keep using them is that I've not been able to replace them with hooks that are better... perhaps they're out there, but as yet I haven't come across them.

The hooks I use have big eyes, that can freely accommodate the split rings on lures... most other hooks have too small eyes for the job, and stay at funny angles, thus causing the lure to track off centre.

I believe there are other hooks out there to be tried, but haven't been in the right tackle shops to find them.

It looks like you're right on the money, Paul.

Cheers, Jimbo


----------



## SharkNett (Feb 20, 2006)

Hi Jimbo,

Thanks for the info, do you happen to know the model of the hooks you are using? Everyone I have spoken to down here goes the double split ring route which to me creates an extra point of failure.
I guess I have been lucky in never managing to straighten a hook. I rarely fish more than 30lb braid these days but when we used to chase bigger fish on heavier gear we always used heavy gauge hooks.

Rob.


----------



## Barrabundy (Sep 29, 2008)

I was going to say that maybe the reason for the crap hooks on lures is to compete on price, considering a large number of fisherman never catch fish on the lures they buy. Then I realised that the difference in price between a good hook and a less good hook is probably insignificant in the scheme of things, just a miniscule bit of extra material, manufacture process would be just the same regardless of hook size/strength.

The other thing to keep in mind is that you get to a point where the weakest point is either the fish's mouth or your line, one results in a lost fish, the other results in a lost lure. Just accept that there are going to be fish that you just can't catch.

I'm guilty of upgrading to buggery though and have lost quite a few lures as because of it.


----------



## bildad (Jun 20, 2011)

What about expensive reels and crappy drag washers, even the new Stradics still have the same old felt drag washers found in any reel, you would think that the high end reels would have Carbontex washers as standard.


----------

