# On the buoyancy of sit-on-top kayaks



## Peril

Professor JT and I convened in my pool this afternoon to test the buoyancy of a Hobie Outback Fish (Kayak A) and a Cobra Profisherman (Kayak B).

Professor JT mounted A and opened a hatch while I filled it with a 10l bucket. At various intervals, the good professor test both the stability and pedalability of his craft. In summary at 15 bucket loads (estimated around 135l accounting for spillage), without additional flotation A was stable and able to be pedalled. Unable to make any assessment of the long distance performance.

After 18 buckets (around 160l), the pedal test was repeated. The stern dipped, the yak listed and the professor felt the full brunt of the pool's 29 degrees.

We then decided to replace all remaining air in the yak by liquid dihydrogen oxide. Another 7 buckets followed by depression of A did the trick. Without air, we were able to tow it to the deep end and it sat on the bottom. Only just, but it was definitely submerged.

So how many pool noodles would be needed to keep Prof JT out of the way of sharks? We tried two - it came to just below the surface but could not bear the prof's massive 71kg. We tried four with the same result. 6.5 pool noodles (the transducer did have to be mounted properly after all) and two wine cask bladders and A was able to be mounted. But it was about as stable as a Hollywood celebrity. We both concluded that the buoyancy of the pool noodles and the cask bladders was enough to keep A afloat but was of no other value as it was not possible to stay aboard the craft. The prof was sharkmeat.

We repeated the experiment, quite a bit faster, with B. B has a huge internal bow capacity but lower overall capacity. The upshot was that after 15 buckets the stern went down and I was in the drink. Filled it with water, including the sealed well, but it remained afloat, although I couldn't sit on it. 6.5 noodles and 2 bladders and it was still nowhere near stable enough to remain mounted. The saving grace of this yak is that the sealed well is airtight - if we hadn't have opened it it would have given 30l of buoyancy.

Our major conclusion is that putting buoyancy in the hull may keep the yak afloat, but unless it can keep the water ingress to around 50% or less, it ain't gonna help. Given that one is unlikely to assist water ingress by opening the hatches once a breach is detected, the trapped air alone is likely to make any additional buoyancy redundant!

The professor and I are happy to answer your questions. Photos in this and successive posts are not intended for entertainment.


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## Peril

More pics


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## Peril

Perhaps B will be better


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## justcrusin

Gday Dave,
Interesting, How about this cut the pool noodles into the small pieces so you can get more into the yak. If you install so much foam the residual air shouldn't mater because you won't be able to get water in.

The GP2 i filled my yak with definatley works but i have doubts about its long term water asorbtion. In saying that with the yak completely filled with water i could still remain on board and paddle. 
This had its own problems I notice over the last few outings how my bow was digging in. So last week i removed the foam from the front half of the yak and replaced it with about 4 pool noodles but i believe i will be able to get another 4 noodles in.

Cheers Dave


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## Cuda

Hmmm, very interesting results from that experiment by the nutty professors with too much time on their hands when they should be out fishing catching these mega Sydney Harbour Kings :lol: :lol: :lol: 
Seriously though, this experiment does prove that if your yak starts taking on water out on the briny, things could get interesting - especially if the brown overcoats turn up :shock: :shock: 
Maybe a bilge pump could be good insurance, coupled with some good ol pool noodles etc etc.
In my game as an OS&H Coordinator, it pays to have a succession of barriers to minimise the risk of hazards such as your yak taking on water in larger than wanted amounts :x I guess the message here is don't be complacent folks and take precautions if you are heading a fair way offshore - unless you are as fortunate as Kraley and you have the "mothership" nearby - then all is hunky dory, apart from the risk of flying vomit from Gatesy :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## andybear

I must say, not quite the outcome I would have expected!
Liquid dihydrogen oxide...... you had me going for a second....the solid state is good in eskys. cheap too!

Cheers all Andybear :lol:


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## JT

This was indeed a very interesting experiment and one whose results suprised Dave and I however in hindsight I am not sure why. When you go through the process and think about the mechanics of it there is no real reason why pool noodles or any other sort of flotation should work (unless you have so much of it that it serves to prevent a large volume of water entering the hull).

Considering the weight of the kayak (in the Outback's case about 28 kilos), the weight of 180 litres to 230 litres (180 t0 230 kilos) and the weight of a yakker (in my case 71 kilos) then you are asking 6 and a half pool noodles and 2 fully inflated wine casks to lift 279 to 329 kilos.

When the yak is submerged the weight of the water is non-existant. It is when the flotation is trying to lift the water inside the yak above the water line that the weight comes into play.

A few other notes:

- At 120 and 150 litres of water in the Outback stability was in no way an issue
- When sufficient water entered the yak (and I mean a whole lot of water- -like 75% full) the yakker could still sit on the yak and be happy but as soon as the yak started to move the water/air thing came into play i.e. all the water would roll to the back and the stern would submerge driving all the air to the bow and ...well you get the picture.
- it would actually be quite difficult to sink (i.e. to the bottom) an Outback or Cobra PF because of the amount of air that is trapped above the hatches within the hull due to the design.
- When laden with water (and even when the yak is still above water) the thing becomes unstable and unpredictable and so would be useless as a means to try and get to shore.
- All these tests were done in a swimming pool with no waves, wind, swell or currents and so the effects would be enlarged if you were at sea.
- Flotation inside the hull only becomes effective once the water is high enough (in the hull) to push the noodles up against the inside of the deck. BUT at this volume of water the yak is way under, extremely unstable and basically as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike.

The conclusion: Pool noodles/wine bladders and any other form (I assume) of flotation that does not also control the volume of water that can enter the hull is useless. Utterly useless.

I personally will be buying a simple hand bilge pump that can be used to flush water out should my hull hole.

JT

p.s. I have 3 pool noodles for sale. Anyone interested? :lol:


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## Davey G

great experiment guys and interesting results....

only one problem, now that I've seen this post and seen peril in his speedos I've been scarred for life. :shock: :shock: :wink:


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## justcrusin

Guys i may have an answer for you in a couple of days. I found a company that manafactures closed cell foam eg pool noodle and they sell it in large sheets. Which could be cut into pieces small enough to fill they yak.
IE stand yak vertical and keep dropping small piece in untill at least 3/4 of yak is full of foam. Ok there will be air gaps and then a large piece shaped to hull and glued or wedged in to keep foam in place.

Will let you know when they get back to my.

Cheers Dave


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## JT

Gatesy said:


> I knew this was in the works and waited for the results.
> 
> The results you got were very interesting. All i can hope is that i taste worse then i look
> 
> Well done gents. Makes me realise that perhaps the 3 noodles i have in my hull would absolutely nothing and that maybe the dive flippers i now have in my hull were the better option


Michael...The noodles are useless. The flippers would be very useful but only after the hand driven bilge pump had failed you. Considering that the yaks were still very useful 50% to 65% full a small hand bilge pump would be great...unless perhaps in circumstances where you didn't have a mirage drive and were too busy paddling. It might take you twice as long to get home due to alternating between pump and paddle. Perhaps that's the next project for the 2 professors? :?: :!: :roll:


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## Peril

My reading of the experiment is that the best approach to providing insurance is to keep air in and water out. While filling the yak with closed cell foam will work, it comes at the cost of removing any useful storage capacity.

For the serious handyman, adding bulkheads to create watertight sections within the hull would have clear benefit, without impinging too much on storage capacity (though might affect ability to store rods).

The bilge pump is the simplest addition to the yak to provide some insurance


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## JT

Peril said:


> My reading of the experiment is that the best approach to providing insurance is to keep air in and water out. While filling the yak with closed cell foam will work, it comes at the cost of removing any useful storage capacity.
> 
> For the serious handyman, adding bulkheads to create watertight sections within the hull would have clear benefit, without impinging too much on storage capacity (though might affect ability to store rods).
> 
> The bilge pump is the simplest addition to the yak to provide some insurance


Perhaps a suprisingly easy and effective bulkhead install with flotation added in would be many many ping pong balls...all individually sealed and held into the bow and stern of the yak with a net that would hold them in place. The net would be the bulkhead...sure it leaks like a...well a net but the balls are sealed.

Like any flotation this would still only lift you to the water line as obviously the floatation needs something to float on.

I agree with you Dave...go the bilge pump!

JT


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## RedPhoenix

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

----

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## JT

redphoenix said:


> Magic guys - great test.
> 
> Surprised me how MUCH water was required before the yaks became unusable, then unsafe.
> 
> Would love to know how detectable the quantities of water were, while underway (ie: does the act of peddling/paddling, combined with the inertia of the water give you a clear feeling that the water is closing in on the danger point) - but I suspect a bigger pool would be required.
> 
> Red.


I am not sure that we got a very scientific understanding of that Red (Dave what do you think?). At 140 to 150 litres on board things seemed stable. 120 litres things were very stable and that is where you see me standing on my yak. 120 litres is 12 buckets full into the hold and it IS alot of water. I feel that I would still be fine with that much water but would feel a somewhat urgent need to get it out or get to dry land. Remembering there was no waves or wind involved as well. At 150 litres and above I would consider it a disaster waiting to happen.

One very obvious thing that we concluded is that the yaks were designed to float on top of the water and not to be full of it. As they became more erratic Dave and I found ourselves saying things like "if there was better space distribution at the back the yak wouldn't go under like that" but the reality was that they weren't designed to be predictable when full of water.

The main result was that flotation wise pool noodles and inflated wine casks were false comfort.


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## justcrusin

GDay Guys this can work the fact that water is needed to float the floatation on is on the case if you don't have top to bottom pool noodles.

Remember my test ( see photo) complete full of water and still able to be paddled and stable. Yes i have [email protected]#$ loads of foam in there. At this point i wish i had used pool noodles but anyway I think my trim problems were from to bigga battery.

I heard back from the pool noodle makers and have some stats for you

Its a pdf file so i can't copy and paste but
Kgs M3 of foam
200 0.25
300 0.38
400 0.50

It comes in sheets 2m x 1m x 0.050m or 2m x 1m x 0.025m or in the regular noodle round shape plus a lock together profile.

It would cost around $250 to buy enough to float the yak at 300 kg

The foam weighs 40kg per m3 so you would be adding around 16kg to your yak

I have the price list and ordering info if anyone wants it email me and i'll send it through.

PS. FYI pool noodles are recyclable material - you learn something new every day

Cheers Dave


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## andybear

I will keep a couple of noodles in my yak. As pointed out in this valuable experiment, not much chance of getting up for a paddle once the yak is full, but I guess if a rescue is needed, it would be better to have the yak on the surface at least, to improve your visibility. More chance of the yak being salvaged, than if lying in DJ's locker..

Cheers all Andybear :lol:


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## troppo

Peril, a very well written and entertaining, I mean, scientific post. Awesome work.

I found it interesting the amount of water needed to stop the yak from being paddlable. If there was a serious leak, then quite likely, the yak will become unyakable and simply be hangonable or worse, submarineable. But don't know if it would stay hangonable in wave conditions.

In relation to adequate flotation, whatever ya do, it's a compromise between cargo space and floatation in case cargo space becomes liquid filled. Here are some thoughts:

(a) Have mesh net bags (shade cloth?) made to fit into hold and pump in polystyrene beads, like in bean bags. The idea of ping pong balls is also a good one.

(b) Perhaps an inflatable something or two with remote operation (CO2 device in bow with a long string) could be used in emergencies to create balloons of bouyancy in bow and stern of submarine, ah, yak. Haven't ever heard of any purpose-built devices for yaks, but even a gas operated life vest stuffed into the ends then filled/puffed up would be better than nothing (No, this does not mean you take off the vest you are wearing! Have another one for ya yak!)

(3) Two full wine casks could be carried and being full would have neutral bouyancy in water, but when required, could be emptied in an appropriate way and then filled with air to increase lift so the yak would float.


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## Croc_Hunter

It seems like it would be more practical to purchase a yak that is manufactured with positive floatation in it, rather than modification.


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## troppo

Croc_Hunter said:


> It seems like it would be more practical to purchase a yak that is manufactured with positive floatation in it, rather than modification.


True, Croc_Hunter, but none of the ones I have checked out (which is not many really) have built in floatation. They usually rely on (a) the hatches being on and watertight and (b) the hull integrity being maintained (no holes or cracks or splitting or seam popping apart due to being 10 km out to sea and the waves just too big or puncturing from sharp hard surfaces typically found in the jaws of sharks).


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## Croc_Hunter

Troppo,

I haven't heard of any yaks either with positive floatation built in.
Which leaves us with no practical solution to the problem.

It would be interesting to know whether a shark has ever punctured through linear polyethelene. Has anyone ever heard of this happening?


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## justcrusin

Gday guys found some even better foam comes in 2400 x 1200 x 100mm blocks at $50 per block and two blocks cut up and fitted into the yak would float 600kg no worries. I have a sample in the front of my kayak now.

We might give it a test in the river at barlings or just off shore if its calm enough :twisted:

Cheers Dave

Edit this stuff has also been approved as positive floatation by NSW maritime for power boats


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## GuardianZAct

All, 
I am not sure how feasible the following, is but.
Flotation works on the displacement of air to provide buoyancy. The closed cell foam would work well but, uses valuable cargo space. ItÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s a permanent or semi permanent (take some time to install / remove)

I know if I were to be off shore I would want to know my yak would at least float to be able to provide additional visibility and then allow it to be recovered.

I temporary solution could be the following, Use the large weelie bin liners, put in place in side the hull then inflate. Only fill to slightly firm. (enough to keep them in place) They should not burst when under water, as they would not be deep under water. They would prevent sinking. They would do a few trips, and the hull of the Kayak would provide some stiffness and prevent the total failure of the bin liners. They would be a TEMPARY method, to prevent total loss of Kayak. When you are back in lakes and enclosed waters, take them out. A single liner should be able to be inflated to 100 lt.
If there little or no where for water to go inside the Kayak, then you have a better chance of still floating good enough to get home.
Fishing rods can still be stored by using a section of PVC pipe. Then inflate the liners around the tube.

Any Thoughts?

Adrian


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## troppo

GuardianZAct, your idea may have merit. Since I don't put much into the hold of my yak, the inflated garbage bag would be safe from punctures, so in the event of water ingress into the hold, it would provide good bouyancy. If water was seeping in slowly then the bag would work I reckon. If I had split a seam or something, then a more robust air container may be better. Just hope neither ever happens.


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## justcrusin

I'm with troppo's line here like the story of the guy who accidentaly gaffed his yak ( i think it was from doug) or perhaps runnning into a metal stake from an old oyster lease etc these would still punture the garbage liner

Cheers dave


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## DGax65

I've used a 2-part marine epoxy to repair the damage to my rudder mount. It comes in a tube that is about the size of a cigar. You just knead it for a minute and then you have about five minutes to force it into the hole. You could plug a gaff hole easily. It sets up hard as a rock within a few minutes. You can even apply it underwater. It would work well if you knew where the leak was and could reach it. 
After I installed the thru-hull fittings for my internal bait tank I was considering adding a bilge pump. I guess that drilling a couple of 1 inch holes in the bottom of my hull got me over my fear of leaks  I'd have no problem drilling another thru-hull for the bilge pump overboard discharge, but you have to come up with a foolproof method of plugging the discharge. I've noticed that, even with my bait tank pump turned off, water still flows through the pump and fills the tank. Any water that gets into the overboard discharge will backflow the pump and end up in the hull. I'm sure that I could come up with an effective stopper, but my yak already weighs too much to add more crap. I've got a hand pump that I could use in a pinch. Maybe I'll put a bilge pump in my next yak.


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## lostinoz

mmmmmmm, been thinking about this, what about using car tyre inner tubes , these are very light, can be pushed in to awkward corners and inflated, they are doughnut shaped and so would leave room for storage if used with a little imagination, three or four would take up enough room to keep out a lot of water and keep your yak afloat , and should one get punctured well you still have the others and your trusty bilge pump, any ideas , steve taff.


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## tugboat

Ben said:


> *Gday Guys
> *
> Has anyone tried the air bags some SeaKayakers & White water kayakers use. ? http://www.topsport.co.nz/kayak-gear/air-bags.php They might do the job
> Cheers Ben


I've got a couple stuck in the back hatch of the revo and have been thinking of sticking one in the front hatch. Had them from my days of owning a sea kayak. They work well and I can deflate one or both if I need storage space and reinflate to keep things in place.  
Will at least keep the water out of the hull if it decides to leak, then again not sure if they will help much if a big toothy critter comes along and bites a big chunk out of the hull :shock:
The bags now also come in a version that is a dry bag so you can store gear plus inflate the bag in the hull.


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## Clarkos

Was about to add a similar comment. I've been looking for a fish bag for the deck of my yak, and have seen several different types of infaltable bags that will fit in kayaks for flotation purposes. All available in Aus. They were shaped to fit as well.


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## Grazza

lostinoz said:


> mmmmmmm, been thinking about this, what about using car tyre inner tubes , these are very light, can be pushed in to awkward corners and inflated, they are doughnut shaped and so would leave room for storage if used with a little imagination, three or four would take up enough room to keep out a lot of water and keep your yak afloat , and should one get punctured well you still have the others and your trusty bilge pump, any ideas , steve taff.


 Yeah mate, had the same thought. 
The inexpensive, commonly ignored, pneumatic tube. I've been following this post with interest and tried one in the rear, which fitted itself snug around the well and one in the front of the "Snake" (Cobra Explorer) worked well for me. The yak was although managable unloaded, I did not try loaded.  :roll: Back to the pool...


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## Kevin

I carry a roll of gaffer type tape and a big sponge. If I hole my yak I would flip it over and seal the hole with the tape. The sponge can then be used to clear water ingress (takes some time but very effective).

Picked up this idea from my white(ish) water river trips - as a puncture is more likely there and could result in quite a walk out if the yaK is unusable.


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## JT

Kevin said:


> I carry a roll of gaffer type tape and a big sponge. If I hole my yak I would flip it over and seal the hole with the tape. The sponge can then be used to clear water ingress (takes some time but very effective).
> 
> Picked up this idea from my white(ish) water river trips - as a puncture is more likely there and could result in quite a walk out if the yal is unusable.


That's good thinking Kevin. Sometimes simple is simply best I reckon. Would you still flip and seal your yak if you were not on land though i.e. out in the ocean?

JT


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## BATMAN

Dude

Not budgey smugglers!!! Put it AWAAAAY! LOL! :lol:


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## Southerly

Hi all great thread,
My Dagger SIK has boyancy in the fore and aft same as Roberta. I tested it in a billabong in summer. When filled with water the boyancy ensures it floats quite well on the surface (good enough to hang on to) certainly enough to offset the weight of my battery etc but is not stable enough to crawl into to get out of the way of bities. The boyancy did give enought freeboad to bail effectively in dead calm conditions, this would probably be impossible to do offshore.

The yak also became seriously unstable with a lot less water in ot than Peril or JT experienced with the SOT's.

I have mounted an electric bilge pump in the yak and while I have only needed to use it once (in a sloppy SE off Longy) it worked a treat. I have considered placing a pool noodle under each rail to enhance stability if swamped but it would not improve boyancy to any degree

Regards
David


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## petanquedon

Also many parts of the sea have considerably bigger waves than the typical swimming pool.

Perhaps if you can't swim ashore you shouldn't go by yourself?


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## JT

petanquedon said:


> Also many parts of the sea have considerably bigger waves than the typical swimming pool.
> 
> Perhaps if you can't swim ashore you shouldn't go by yourself?


Probably pretty smart Pet'. But then your confidence builds, then builds, then builds some more and a little more and before you know it you are alone in very questionable weather 2 kilometers out with a front coming in and you realise that you forgot/didn't bother to pack the VHF/Flares and the battery on your mobile is dead :shock: . The wife only knows that you have gone kayak fishing and could be back about 2:00, you're not as fit as you should be and I saw a couple of fins out here once and the current is running so fast that quarter of a kilo of lead wont keep your line straight.

Found myself in that situation on a number of occassions and I would wager that many many people on here have as well. Pack like a princess and fish like a King (sorry for the cheesy sh*t :shock: )

Prepare for the worst and enjoy the day.

JT


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## Junglefisher

I think if a shark had already bitten enough of a hole in your yak to make it sink, you are in serious trouble, pos float or not.
I'd think anything that floated you enough to be able to bail out and something to seal the leak is the way to go.
What about shoving a bean bag in there? :lol:


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## Bear

I am thinking of an airbag concept inside the kayak similar to an inflating PFD. Colapsed bags mounted on the bottom of the deck conected to a air charge cartridge like the PDF's have. One forward and one aft, in the case of an emergency you could have an emergency cord that you pull to inflate the bags. You could also do a similar thing mounted to the deck to make external fenders to keep you upright. I intend to mak a trial model in the shed and try it in the pool over the next few weeks.

Bear


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## petanquedon

My experiences are with sit in kayaks.

Are SOT divided into various sections?

The chance of getting several sections holed at one time seems small.

Also are the hatch covers airtight?

If they are air tight a small hole will only let in a small amount of water because the air has to be forced out.

With any boating activity you need to be aware of changing conditions.

A lot more people drown than are taken by shark (perhaps they don't like the taste this would explain why they don't tend to eat the whole person).

I had a long swim after one boating incident.

It tended to put a damper on the days activities.

If you are conservative with your fishing plans that only means the fish will still be there tomorrow to catch.


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## beefs

SOTs aren't divided into seperate airtight sections - at least the ones I know of aren't. Being rotomoulded makes it very difficult to have seperate internal sections.



petanquedon said:


> ...
> I had a long swim after one boating incident.
> 
> It tended to put a damper on the days activities.
> ...


I'm guessing most things would have been quite damp after that ;-) :lol:


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## Big D

So the moral of the story is.....always wear a PFD.......I reckon if you're yak is taking on sooo much water that it would get to that stage, then you're stuffed anyway. Turnining the yak upside down may create a bit of trapped air so you can hang onto the topside. Also interested to know if the 120-150L of water actually made the yak more stable than without, sometimes 
I think these huge carrying capacities some of your yaks come with actually retard primary stability somewhat.


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## Clarkos

Bump. Having recently converted to a SOT, this thread was in the back of my mind to chase up. Definately worth a look.


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## spider25160

RedPhoenix said:


> Magic guys - great test.
> 
> Surprised me how MUCH water was required before the yaks became unusable, then unsafe.
> 
> Would love to know how detectable the quantities of water were, while underway (ie: does the act of peddling/paddling, combined with the inertia of the water give you a clear feeling that the water is closing in on the danger point) - but I suspect a bigger pool would be required.
> 
> Red.


On my second outing in my Hobie outfitter I was unfortunate (read stupid) enough to sink. The first I knew about it was when I hit the water...a comfortable 10 deg C...
Whilst I was and still not terribly in tune with the handling of the Yak I have been playing around in all sorts of boats since adam was a boy and have an affinity with this sort of thing so to answer your question there is very little warning before it is too late.


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## eagle4031

having read this experiment i can nnot see why foam packed all through the hull would not work - it would displace any water trying to get in - or am i missing something


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## Clarkos

It will work. It's just the extra weight, plus the loss of internal storage space that are the downsides.


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## Stealthfisha

DaftWullie said:


> All SA glass has sections and floatation, mainly because the South African govt says they have to. As a result they also comply with international buoyancy standards.


Yep!
I removed all the hardware from my stealth Evo while re sealing a rod holder and looked inside to find indeed bulkheads separate to the main compartment. 
If you hole these yaks they are supposed to stay afloat.


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## Guest

Flotation is a means of recovery for the yak itself, IMO, and it's not supposed to keep it afloat when loaded with either passengers or goods.


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## Stealthfisha

> On my second outing in my Hobie outfitter I was unfortunate (read stupid) enough to sink. The first I knew about it was when I hit the water...a comfortable 10 deg C...
> Whilst I was and still not terribly in tune with the handling of the Yak I have been playing around in all sorts of boats since adam was a boy and have an affinity with this sort of thing so to answer your question there is very little warning before it is too late.


Bump
Ummmm stupid question?
How did you sink an Outfitter?
It's a barge at the best of times but near on unsinkable except for open hatches?

Regards


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## kayakone

Stealthfisha said:


> On my second outing in my Hobie outfitter I was unfortunate (read stupid) enough to sink. The first I knew about it was when I hit the water...a comfortable 10 deg C...
> Whilst I was and still not terribly in tune with the handling of the Yak I have been playing around in all sorts of boats since adam was a boy and have an affinity with this sort of thing so to answer your question there is very little warning before it is too late.
> 
> 
> 
> Bump
> Ummmm stupid question?
> How did you sink an Outfitter?
> It's a barge at the best of times but near on unsinkable except for open hatches?
> 
> Regards
Click to expand...

Ever heard of an unsinkable boat called the Titanic? PM 'Scoman",..... and many others. When the sh*t hits the fan, remember this....the fan is turning very fast.

Enjoy that sinking feeling!


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## spider25160

Stealthfisha said:


> On my second outing in my Hobie outfitter I was unfortunate (read stupid) enough to sink. The first I knew about it was when I hit the water...a comfortable 10 deg C...
> Whilst I was and still not terribly in tune with the handling of the Yak I have been playing around in all sorts of boats since adam was a boy and have an affinity with this sort of thing so to answer your question there is very little warning before it is too late.
> 
> 
> 
> Bump
> Ummmm stupid question?
> How did you sink an Outfitter?
> It's a barge at the best of times but near on unsinkable except for open hatches?
> 
> Regards
Click to expand...

I did say I was stupid did I not? I had the rear hatch open and trolling down wind. One up on a tandem means the stern is pretty deep in the water and a following sea just rolling up the after deck and into the open hatch.


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## Guest

The web is abundant with accounts of sinking SOT kayaks. Surprisingly, they all have two things in common: The yakker discovered the leak too late, and after they did, they realized there was nothing they could do about it...
There doesn't seem to be a particular problem with one SOT brand or model vs. another.

The problem isn't just "known unknowns" such as holes in the hull caused by rod holders, deck rigging, hatches etc, but also "unknown unknowns"* such as weaknesses in the plastic along the parting line, especially in the scuppers, which tend to have a thinner wall.

Wearing a PFD is an excellent idea, and never going in the ocean alone is another one, IMHO
------------------
* If you recognized that famous, tortured sentence conceived by Donald Rumsfeld, you were spot on :lol:


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## NoelMc

Bilge pump the answer ?
This topic was considered in sea kayaks many years ago.
The hand operated pump means one hand less for paddling & by the time u realise wot has happened, it takes a long time to pump out if u pump faster than the leak.
Electric operated pumps are better but electrics in salt water.. We experimented with (Magnetic) reed switches & clear hose for cables.
Kayaks have bouyancy built in F & R to keep afloat whilst being towed or awaiting rescue.
There is no Australian Standard that i know of for the design or quality of materials for our sot type of boat. Unfortunately, it will probably take a few deaths before the "authorities" protect us.
The Industry does not want this as it will restrict design inovation & add to cost of boats.
When I overturned my cat i was 200m from shore & no one could see as it was into the sun. The device which would have saved me a 14 hr long night would have been a flashing light. (It always eventually gets dark) Take at least two.
Cheers.


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