# Ciguatera on the Gold Coast



## Marty75 (Oct 23, 2007)

Watch out palmy army...

http://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/21487275/fish-poisoning-on-gold-coast/

Marty


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## carnster (May 27, 2008)

Yep, i think that everyone should b very cautious of spanish as i know palmy has produced multiple cases of cig now.
I wonder how many of the thousands of local pro caught spanish have poisoned customers. I am sure many more poisonings will occur in the future as much of the fish sold are yet to b consumed. I saw a whole 15kg spanish in a fish shop recently and wondered if it was a carrier. Sounds like a law suite waiting to happen.
Even spotties are a risk, as well as cobes and others as well. On a lighter note, I liked the footage of the spanish eating the fish - classic. I bet many of the spanish spent some time feeding in platypus bay, fraser island, not far from DI.


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

carnster said:


> Yep, I think that everyone should be very cautious of spanish as I know Palmy has produced multiple cases of ciguatera now.


Thanks Chris
We've been wondering what's wrong with you lot for a while:

1. You catch and eat lots of spanish (and spotties).

2. You get the itchies every day (to catch and eat more).

All explained.  

Maybe Salti's BIG DOG board section should be dropped?


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## carnster (May 27, 2008)

kayakone said:


> carnster said:
> 
> 
> > Yep, I think that everyone should be very cautious of spanish as I know Palmy has produced multiple cases of ciguatera now.
> ...


Let's call it the cig lotto board. Roll the dice and c what u get. :lol:
Just 8 some fresh spanish 2nite yum, c what happens in 6 hrs. :roll:


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

If the King's speech goes funny we'll know what has happened. :lol:


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## brolans (Aug 9, 2012)

I wonder if this will deter some of the tourist fisho's?

hey Chris, how many times have you been poisoned?


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## Zed (Sep 18, 2006)

I know the hawaians regularly use test kits for cig. Might need to pick one up for the Summer runs just to be safe.


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## Dodge (Oct 12, 2005)

A guru from Fisheries was on the TV news over the weekend and gave a ball park figure re the GC fish .... below 6kgs, no risk ...... above 6kgs, a maybe risk


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## BIGKEV (Aug 18, 2007)

brolans said:


> I wonder if this will deter some of the tourist fisho's?
> 
> hey Chris, how many times have you been poisoned?


This is what the locals will be banking on.....


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## grinner (May 15, 2008)

Yeah , see a bit, even had a few docs who sent people off for brain scans thinking they were dealing with a stroke.

i remember one guy who was fishing and camping near gladstone and got it, told me afterwards that every little bit of spray (in the middle of winter), felt like boiling water was hitting him.
ended up wrapped up in a space blankett moaning on the floor . 
never going to eat fish again  

there was a big outbreak at a famous seafood resturant in brisbane a few years back and the locum service saw about 10 cases . 
it wasnt a notifiable disease but is now, but i suspect most milder cases dont get reported.

coral trout caught up in barrabundy country and the biggest pelagics(spaniards) are the worst offenders


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## Beekeeper (Aug 20, 2011)

At one stage it was thought quite the thing to warn people to whom you were handing out fish that possible could carry this nasty. I caught some macs (not spanish) some years ago, ate some myself, and offered some to my daughter and her family, but after the warning I issued, (I felt I had to) she declined the offer. My wife and I ate it with no ill effects.

In years gone by, there have been bad cases of ciguatera poisoning reported where people have scratched the itch so much that they actually tore muscles off their arms... and still the itch persisted! AND they still wanted to scratch!

Sounds far-fetched, I know, but they reckon it's a terrible malady to endure.

One fellow I knew (used to be quite big within Sunfish Qld) was a great fisho, highly regarded as an authority on how to nail pelagics, and loved catching/eating spanish macs... ate them for donkeys years... then the cig got him... didn't ever want to see another spanish... he was quite a cot-case from it.

I hope no AKFF members get to know how it feels.

Jimbo


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## carnster (May 27, 2008)

Yeah not a nice disease at all.


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## ben123 (Jan 24, 2012)

So how does one find out if the fish has it before eating it? Or just take pot luck?


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## BIGKEV (Aug 18, 2007)

ben123 said:


> So how does one find out if the fish has it before eating it? Or just take pot luck?


Give some to your neighbours cat.


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## Beekeeper (Aug 20, 2011)

Wasn't any fish of doubtful health standard always referred to as Mother In Law Fish? 

Jimbo


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## Zed (Sep 18, 2006)

Lazybugger said:


> BIGKEV said:
> 
> 
> > ben123 said:
> ...


Be wary of the fish it wont eat.
http://www.akff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=574280#p574280


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

Beekeeper said:


> Wasn't any fish of doubtful health standard always referred to as Mother In Law Fish?
> 
> Jimbo


Slatey Bream....a common reef fish.


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## carnster (May 27, 2008)

kayakone said:


> Beekeeper said:
> 
> 
> > Wasn't any fish of doubtful health standard always referred to as Mother In Law Fish?
> ...


An underrated fish on the plate.


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## ben123 (Jan 24, 2012)

carnster said:


> kayakone said:
> 
> 
> > Beekeeper said:
> ...


Completely agree! The last one I had was absolutely delicious!!


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## Barrabundy (Sep 29, 2008)

ben123 said:


> So how does one find out if the fish has it before eating it? Or just take pot luck?


Blokes tell me they don't keep any fish that have an iodine smell.....is that a telltale or is that something else entirely? Maybe it's a case of the older fish that have hung around the reefs long enough to have iodine levels are the ones likely to also be toxic?

I know nothing.


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## BIGKEV (Aug 18, 2007)

Oh yeah, this Ciguatera thing is bad news.....

CIGUATERA-RELATED SEXUAL DYSFUNCTION
In the true sense of what some authorities (Lewis and Ruff, 1993; Ting et al., 1998) describe as the protean nature of ciguatera poisoning, a number of reports of ano-genital pain, discomfort and dysfunction can be found in the literature. Proctalgia was reported by at least one of the sailors who were probably afflicted by ciguatera poisoning on Captain Cook's voyages in the South Pacific (Doherty, 2005). "Intense" penile pain after defecation (Ting et al., 1998), three cases of testicular pain (Tonge et al., 1967; Ting et al., 1998) and a 5-year-old boy who suffered "severe agony and disturbed sleep &#8230; due to pain in the tip of his penis" (Mitchell, 1981) have been described. One adult male reported that his testicles "felt big and heavy" even though there were no clinical signs of testicular enlargement or oedema (Lee and Pang, 1945). Eight of 19 sexually active individuals, when questioned, reported that their CFP symptoms were exacerbated during sexual activity (Lange et al., 1992). Two of these cases were men who experienced painful ejaculation, one of whom apparently found the experience so unpleasant that he abstained from further sexual activity for "several" months (Lange et al., 1989). More recently, six of seven sexually active CFP cases reported painful intercourse: two males with painful ejaculation and four females with dyspareunia - specifically, burning sensations during and up to 3 h after coitus (Langley et al., 2009). Severe penile or pubic pain during erection and ejaculation are noted in other reports on male cases (Pearn et al., 1989; Swift and Swift, 1993; Ting et al., 1998; Farstad and Chow, 2001). Yet another case report describes a man whose "penis was extremely sensitive, which caused occasional ejaculations" (Villareal et al., 2006). Intense and distressing vulval pruritus was reported by a 14-year-old female with CFP (Delord et al., 1984). Painful dysuria is another, albeit infrequently reported, symptom of ciguatera intoxication (Tonge et al., 1967; Ng and Gregory, 2000; Neville and Warren, 2003; Kipping et al., 2006; Friedman et al., 2008), although this condition is not necessarily associated with symptoms affecting sexual function; one of the men discussed above experienced painful ejaculation, whereas he found both bowel and bladder evacuation to be painless (Swift and Swift, 1993).

Full article here - http://www98.griffith.edu.au/dspace/bitstream/handle/10072/35364/65577_1.pdf?sequence=1


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## carnster (May 27, 2008)

BIGKEV said:


> Oh yeah, this Ciguatera thing is bad news.....
> 
> CIGUATERA-RELATED SEXUAL DYSFUNCTION
> In the true sense of what some authorities (Lewis and Ruff, 1993; Ting et al., 1998) describe as the protean nature of ciguatera poisoning, a number of reports of ano-genital pain, discomfort and dysfunction can be found in the literature. Proctalgia was reported by at least one of the sailors who were probably afflicted by ciguatera poisoning on Captain Cook's voyages in the South Pacific (Doherty, 2005). "Intense" penile pain after defecation (Ting et al., 1998), three cases of testicular pain (Tonge et al., 1967; Ting et al., 1998) and a 5-year-old boy who suffered "severe agony and disturbed sleep &#8230; due to pain in the tip of his penis" (Mitchell, 1981) have been described. One adult male reported that his testicles "felt big and heavy" even though there were no clinical signs of testicular enlargement or oedema (Lee and Pang, 1945). Eight of 19 sexually active individuals, when questioned, reported that their CFP symptoms were exacerbated during sexual activity (Lange et al., 1992). Two of these cases were men who experienced painful ejaculation, one of whom apparently found the experience so unpleasant that he abstained from further sexual activity for "several" months (Lange et al., 1989). More recently, six of seven sexually active CFP cases reported painful intercourse: two males with painful ejaculation and four females with dyspareunia - specifically, burning sensations during and up to 3 h after coitus (Langley et al., 2009). Severe penile or pubic pain during erection and ejaculation are noted in other reports on male cases (Pearn et al., 1989; Swift and Swift, 1993; Ting et al., 1998; Farstad and Chow, 2001). Yet another case report describes a man whose "penis was extremely sensitive, which caused occasional ejaculations" (Villareal et al., 2006). Intense and distressing vulval pruritus was reported by a 14-year-old female with CFP (Delord et al., 1984). Painful dysuria is another, albeit infrequently reported, symptom of ciguatera intoxication (Tonge et al., 1967; Ng and Gregory, 2000; Neville and Warren, 2003; Kipping et al., 2006; Friedman et al., 2008), although this condition is not necessarily associated with symptoms affecting sexual function; one of the men discussed above experienced painful ejaculation, whereas he found both bowel and bladder evacuation to be painless (Swift and Swift, 1993).
> ...


Righto it's whiting fishing 4 me then.


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## brolans (Aug 9, 2012)

Hey chriso&#8230; I think your already under the affects of Ciguatera :lol: haha Driving to uni this morning I hear a horn and I see a crazy guy waving and yelling out the window! :lol: Low and behold it was the carnster! haha :lol:

Haha only joking mate, but gee reading that article makes me not even want to take the chance with bigger fish. I wonder what the actual number of fish that are caught at palmy have Cig&#8230;. as in a percentage. I think it would be very very very low


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## BIGKEV (Aug 18, 2007)

You're more likely to get crook from eating chicken at home


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## brolans (Aug 9, 2012)

Just read that there about 50,000 cases worldwide each year so it seems to be very uncommon...


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## Zed (Sep 18, 2006)

BIGKEV said:


> You're more likely to get crook from eating chicken at home


But you can't cook out cig. I piece of chicken would have to be pretty bad to have built up enough toxin to get you sick after cooking. And if it was that bad, you would know it before you cooked it. A cig fish, not so much.


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## kayakone (Dec 7, 2010)

Found these sites interesting:

http://www.health.qld.gov.au/ph/Documents/ehu/19397.pdf

http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/ ... i2411f.htm

http://www.industrysearch.com.au/Ciguat ... ck/p/22551


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## badmotorfinger (Mar 15, 2010)

From what I can distill from Kevs post, your safe if you catch no fish, get no sex and dont take a dump. Gonna get a big block of cheese and make myself 100% safe.


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## spooled1 (Sep 16, 2005)

It is said that plants that are high in rosemarinic acid may be beneficial for treatment and may help remove cig. High doses of this substance is contained in rosemary, Basil, oregano,sage, thyme, peppermint and wormwood. This is good news coz often these ingredients taste great served with fish. Wormwood is even better because it's an essential element of Absinthe and Jaegermeister. This could mean that you have an excuse to get ridiculously drunk. Rosemarinic Acids have anti-viral, anti-bacterial, anti-oxidant and anti-inflammatory properties.


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## mudpat (Feb 21, 2011)

I have it in my system and have been hit twice, the last a couple of years ago in Fiji.
Other than a test kit, there is no way to determine if the fish you have is affected.
6 months without alcohol (the itching is incredible, in a bad way)
Cold showers are like bathing in fire.


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