# flares



## beardys

does everyone who goes anywhere near the bay carry them? thanks.


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## ArWeTherYet

I carry them, there not too expensive (about $50 for a basic set of 4). I think them, and a life jacket is the minimum amount of safety gear you should have in open water's. Hopefully you'll never need them, but if you do they can be seen from many miles away and may save your life one day.


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## JustinC

Hi,

I never used to take flares with me until I went in an organised fishing comp. One of the requirements was that you had some. Since I've not used them yet, I just take them out with me when I go - no point having them and leaving them behind 

Have fun!


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## Billybob

I carry two day flares.


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## abitfishy

Get with it man. Flares went out in the 70's.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## beardys

thanks and i liked your joke abitfishy, i rekon flares are in man  jk


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## Phoenix

I carry a flare in my PFD pocket + EPIRB, Signalling Mirror, Water Dye, etc. There aint much point having safety gear on the kayak should you get seperated from the when when in open water.


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## JT

I carry 2 day and 2 night flares. They are sort of a pain in the ass as they seem to be one of the things I constantly stuff in the yak and then pull out at the end of a session without using. For obvious reasons. As Kraley says, you won't need em until you need em. I kind of think of them like my new shark shield....it'll be a pain to lug around until I am in a situation wnen I need it and then I will be a very happy camper indeed. 8)

JT


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## justcrusin

> I carry a flare in my PFD pocket + EPIRB, Signalling Mirror, Water Dye, etc. There aint much point having safety gear on the kayak should you get seperated from the when when in open water.


Well said Pheonix one of the problems with the prowlers is the stupid center bucket so to store the flares inside the hull we would need to get in the front hatch to grab them.

I believe you can get smaller personall signal flares does anbody know anything about these? should be a good size for the LJ

Cheers Dave


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## water_baby

these ones had my fancy a while back. not too bulky, 8 flares in the kit. seem pretty good to me, assuming you dont want smoke or dye flares.

http://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemd ... lutePage=1


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## andybear

I hang my head in shame on this one.....I have been meaning to get some.....didn't quite get around to it...will probably get some next time I go to the tackle shop....if I don't get distracted by fishing gear.

Yes a good idea, especially since I have the prowler now, and will attempt bigger waves and further offshore, than I would have considered in the tempo!

Yes... in the must do tray 8) 8)

Cheers all Andybear :lol: :lol:


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## Lureme

Yes I carry one flare, will get two and a EPIRB for offshore now.


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## Sandshark

I carry them. Have some old ones from the stinkboat. They always seem to work when I watch the soccer on TV (spectators going nuts), I am sure those are not new flares.

Mike


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## Squidder

Sandshark said:


> They always seem to work when I watch the soccer on TV (spectators going nuts)


This is the fate of 90% of 'out of date' boat flares - I reckon the purpose of the used by date on flares is largely to boost the sale of new flares. As long as they are not ancient (10+ years old) they should be fine. Although 'should be fine' is probaby not going to help you if you need them and they fail :?


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## DGax65

Squidder said:


> I reckon the purpose of the used by date on flares is largely to boost the sale of new flares. As long as they are not ancient (10+ years old) they should be fine. Although 'should be fine' is probably not going to help you if you need them and they fail :?


I got a little confused with the different safety equipment requirements for each state, but the impression that I get is that, if required to carry flares, they must meet the requirements set forth in AS2092. That means that they must be stamped with an expiration date and that they must not be expired.

The US Coast Guard will ticket you for possession of expired flares, even if you have the required number of good flares on board. I have a friend who was cited for expired flares even though he had a full complement of new flares. The fines was something like $350 for each expired flare :shock: Ever since that happened to him, I've been very careful to check my flares on a regular basis.

I'm no soccer hooligan, so I don't know what to do with my old flares


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## ArWeTherYet

Old flares do fail.
While out in the bay one day with a split in hull of my old stink boat waiting for the water police to come and rescue me. I tried to let off an out of date flare, didnt work so I grabbed a new flare and worked fine. 
Consequently I dont bother carrying any that are out of date, because the one time you really need them they will fail......I guess at the soccer its less of a drama if one fails.

DONT RELIGH ON OUT OF DATE FLARES !


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## Guest

Anyone who goes out on a kayak with out flares has rocks in their head :shock:

And make sure they saty on your person, if your PFD has small pockets, then get your missus to sow them into the seam of you jacket. Velcro them on.

Putting the flare inside the hull of your upturned kayak is really conducive to your survival. If you must stow them then put them in a water proof container that floats, and attach a leash to it.

Common sense must prevail here, at all times. Think like a chess player, what if, what if, you must be prepared, as at times you are on your own, and you are the skipper of your ship.


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## Peril

Shawn said:


> Anyone who goes out on a kayak with out flares has rocks in their head :shock:
> 
> And make sure they saty on your person, if your PFD has small pockets, then get your missus to sow them into the seam of you jacket. Velcro them on.
> 
> Putting the flare inside the hull of your upturned kayak is really conducive to your survival. If you must stow them then put them in a water proof container that floats, and attach a leash to it.
> 
> Common sense must prevail here, at all times. Think like a chess player, what if, what if, you must be prepared, as at times you are on your own, and you are the skipper of your ship.


Under what circumstances will you have an upturned yak that you are unable to right and be able to activate a flare? Given that flares are used to direct emergency services to you, rather than trigger a search for you in the first place, I can't think of a situation in which you would be able to activate a flare yet not be able to retrieve it from your hull after you have called on your VHF or activated your EPIRB.

The simple fact for me is that I am almost always within shouting distance of either a boat or a bushwalker. My number one safety device is a whistle. I carry flares when going a long way from shore, but only do that when the weather is good enough to ensure plenty of boats out there anyhow. Even then, I think flares without a VHF radio or an EPIRB are fairly useless as noone will be looking for you until you are overdue


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## MangoX

Very interesting post...

I would agree with Dave, flares are useful when someone is actually looking for you... :shock:

EPIRB and VHF are a must in my books. Flares, whistles, mirrors and flags are a secondary option..

but jeez they're expensive :?


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## Guest

[Under what circumstances will you have an upturned yak that you are unable to right and be able to activate a flare? Given that flares are used to direct emergency services to you, rather than trigger a search for you in the first place, I can't think of a situation in which you would be able to activate a flare yet not be able to retrieve it from your hull after you have called on your VHF or activated your EPIRB.

The simple fact for me is that I am almost always within shouting distance of either a boat or a bushwalker. My number one safety device is a whistle. I carry flares when going a long way from shore, but only do that when the weather is good enough to ensure plenty of boats out there anyhow. Even then, I think flares without a VHF radio or an EPIRB are fairly useless as noone will be looking for you until you are overdue[/quote]

Peril,

You are a very lucky man if you can predict your future out there on the water.

What if you are thrown from your kayak, hurt, kayak becomes adrift from you, you are not seen by a fellow yakker, bushwalker, your radio batteries fail and epirb goes inop, and all you have are your flares, or in your case you don,t
:shock: what then :shock:

The question was about flares or not, and for what they cost, and the fact that the law says we need them, again I firmly believe that they should be on every kayak, and easily reached in an emergency.


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## Phoenix

I agree with Shawn on this.

There are many scenarios whereby a kayak could become separated from the kayaker. Should this happen, and all or most of your safety gear is showed in the kayak - you risk becoming one of those statistics.

Even in rivers - accidents happen.

This pair of rowers were taken out by a jet boat on the South Port Broadwater. image from the courier mail.

A friend of mine was run over on the Brisbane river by a large motor boat. The cuts left by the prop on left a trail on his poly kayak - which promptly sank like a stone and was recovered later by police.


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## Sparra

I was thinking about flares and did a search and found this thread...Interesting the amount of people that talk about being seperated from there Kayak if something goes pear shape.Does anyone use a leg rope or hand rope as with a surfboard???I am extremely new to this and was wondering whether this is worthwhile.Of course it would need a very light breaking strain attachment either at the yak or at the person end incase the kayak sinks but it may just keep both parties together...
Cheers...Sparra


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## DGax65

Sparra
There have been some threads regarding the use of tethers.
http://www.akff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2707&hilit=tether+leash
http://www.akff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4182&hilit=tether+leash
http://www.akff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4688&hilit=tether+leash you need to scroll down a little to get to the tether discussion
http://www.akff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9813&hilit=tether+leash

There are differing schools of thought when it comes to tethering yourself to the kayak. About the only thing that most agree on is that you shouldn't do it when going through the surf. Read though those threads, as just about everybody in AKFF weighed in with their comments. There is some good info there.


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## wopfish

I say teather your paddle and if you go over hold on to it. Carry a knife on your persons and if you roll and get caught in your teathers then you can cut your self free!!!. I would say personally only Kayak within your ability to swim to shore or carry an epirb or a radio.


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## avayak

Having had the experience of waiting it out sitting on an upturned hull. I'm very fond of flares and especially parachute flares.

I finished a dive outside of Jervis Bay just as a southerly hit. The sea came up fast by the time we pulled the pick so the skipper took it easy until we entered the Bay then opened up the throttles to escape the rain. Fine until we crossed a small reef, picked up on a wave, ploughed into the one in front and capsised.
Anyway to the point, because of the weather there was no one in sight on the bay. We let off a daytime hand flare and no one came, we waited and then let off a parachute flare and within ten minutes a charter dive boat came to our aid. I don't think anyne would have seen us using the hand flares. So it pays to fork out another $35 and increase your range of visablilty.


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## alfie

I HATE FLARES !

Twice I've had issues with them while marking a landing area for Careflight. 1st was my fault - ( Orange smoke flare ) unscrewed the cap on the bottom, pulled the string to activate it like a potato masher grenade, broke the string. Threw the cap away and wrapped the remaining string around my finger for a second go and pulled the string completely out. NOW I stopped to actually read the instructions. ( Unscrew cap, strike across top like a match ) D'OH! Then I had to find the cap I'd thrown away. Looked closely at the top and struck it like a match. ( Too closely, nearly burned me eyebrows off ) To add insult to injury, I'd chosen to bring the chopper into a cutting at an overtaking lane on the Mt Lindsay Highway at Jimboomba, which is where the 5 patients were from the car crash. When flaring to land the downdraft normally isn't an issue BUT in a cutting meant every stick,leaf,loose pebble sandblasted us at 100mph 

Anyway, be familiar with how to use them and point them well away from yourself when igniting. Don't know whether getting them wet, as in floating around in your PFD would affect them either.

Second time I had problems was a night landing ( White illumination type ) Yes, I read the instructions this time, three times even! Unscrew the top, pull the exposed plastic tab quickly and firmly. Chopper on final approach, on mobile phone to pilot confirming landing site marked by cars with headlights crossing at landing site. Pulled the tab as instructed -BLINDING LIGHT- the entire igniter pulled out of the end, landed on the ground and fizzed for 5 seconds, then darkness. DAMN, DAMN, DAMN.

Hence I HATE FLARES !

Anyway, MERRY CHRISTMAS to all.


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## Duane

A few years back I did a Sail training course with one of the local yacht clubs. Part of the course was letting off a variety of flares.

The flares we used were all out of date ones that had been donated by other club members. The expiry date on them varied from 3 months to 3 years out of date. Out of the dozen or so flares fired that day only one failed to fire and that one had expired about 12 months previously.

So I think that basically the expiry date is the time limit where it is pretty much guaranteed to work.

I'm amazed that the USCG fines people for having out of date flares on board even with the correct amount of in date flares. To me it's like fining someone for having six life jackets on a boat with only four people on board. I think the industry lobby groups might have had some influence in the USCG policy.

I'm open to correction but I've never heard of an out of date flare spontaneously combusting.

Having said that, for the type of kayaking I'm doing I don't see any need for me to carry in date flares. I have some old flares from when I was required to have them with a dinghy. I'll take them out with me sometimes, but I won't expect them to work.


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## Bartek

Duane said:


> Having said that, for the type of kayaking I'm doing I don't see any need for me to carry in date flares. I have some old flares from when I was required to have them with a dinghy. I'll take them out with me sometimes, but I won't expect them to work.


If you don't expect them to work why bother taking them?


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## Guest

Where do you buy small ones? (If available anywhere) I have seen small compact ones.


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## couta1

i carry the pack of four with me


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## Duane

Bartek said:


> Duane said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having said that, for the type of kayaking I'm doing I don't see any need for me to carry in date flares. I have some old flares from when I was required to have them with a dinghy. I'll take them out with me sometimes, but I won't expect them to work.
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't expect them to work why bother taking them?
Click to expand...

I have expired credit cards in my wallet too


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## reverend1

I carry the standard 4 pak when in bluewater but also include 1 parachute flare and 1 white collision flare. 
I also carry a few light sticks other that what i use during night fishing, Can't have too many. 
Also carry a lot of other gear i won't go into now. 
I can not understand why somebody would carry flares that they don't think would work. 
For most of us a Flare is the last line of defence and i make sure mine are in tip top shape. 
I have never had the need to use one and hope i never do.


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## andybear

OMG!

This thread is so old, and I earlier posted way back in 2007, that I was going to buy some flares.....and at the time, my head was hung in shame for not getting them....and guess what..... I still have not got them yet....

Bad, Bad Andybear

Cheers all Andybear


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## deano199

I get why youd carry them (not that i have the money to buy them) and i also get why youd carry them not excpecting them to work. just coz you dont expect them t work doesnt mean they wont it just mean you arent totaly reliant on them working. i geuss having them even though they might not work is still better then not having them at all.

What are the laws on them anyway? how far out do you need to go before you legaly have to have them?

In the wy of safety gear all i plan on taking with me (when i buy it all, for now i have none of this) is a PFD (inflatable),V sheet and i might get one of those small bailing buckets that comes with the waterproof torch, whistle and rope with float (not sure why thats in there) plus its also a waterproof container i could use for watever else as well as being a bailing bucket, quite a useful thing that little bucket is.


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## ArWeTherYet

Deano 4 flares are $54 or you can buy them singly for about $15 each.....pretty cheap I reckon. You can use them any time you are in danger regardless of how far from the shore you are. You are not required to have any in a kayak in QLD, but if your in a boat you need them in open waters and partially smooth waters, like Moreton Bay. They are very affective in getting the attention of other boats or people on shore if your close enough.

Cheap bit of insurance and way more effective than trying to get someones attention with a V-sheet or waving your paddle about.


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## deano199

Thats a good point paul, think i might invest in a couple lf flares after all and ditch the bucket i can buy 2 flares for the price of the (saftey) bucket. :twisted:

Thanks


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## YakN00b

I have 2 flares 2 smoke bombs and a V sheet in my drybag and thats where they live.


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## andybear

Doh!

I was in BCF today.....all I got was lures and braid....totally forgot about the flares.......again!

Head still hung in shame.

Cheers all Andybear :shock: :shock:


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## mustrumr

Regulations vary from state to state. In Western Australia you have to carry 4 hand-held flares, two red and two orange, when in the ocean. Theoretically they can ping you for not carrying them, even if you are having a gentle paddle 50 metres from the beach. They probably won't but there's nothing to stop them if they are having a touch of the Hitlers that day.

Here is a guide to compulsory WA safety regs which apply to offshore vessels, including kayaks: http://www.dpi.wa.gov.au/imarine/19089.asp . OK, you don't have to have an extinguisher (unless you've worked out how to fit that 350 hp outboard :lol: ), and you can use a bailing bucket rather than a bilge pump. There's also an exclusion zone in Perth waters where you don't have to carry an EPIRB here: http://www.dpi.wa.gov.au/imarine/19164.asp . I bought one anyway, since I figured an EPIRB is cheaper than a funeral.

Note that you must have a Type 1 PFD for ocean use in WA. Type 2 or 3 aren't enough. It's not actually compulsory to wear a PFD 1, but you must have one on board for each person on the kayak. http://www.dpi.wa.gov.au/imarine/19166.asp gives all the info.

Note that all this is just the compulsory stuff; there's a bunch of information in the Wiki including this thread for the truly paranoid kayaker: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3484 . If you take everything suggested you will need it since your kayak will inevitably sink under the weight of safety gear :lol:

But, seriously, there's some really good info in it and it's well worth checking out. As the old rockfishing saying goes "no fish is worth dying for", and it's just as applicable to kayak fishing.

Cheers


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## andybear

Finally,

I lashed out and got some today.....only took a couple of years!

Cheers all Andybear


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## CHIMO

Sandshark said:


> I carry them. Have some old ones from the stinkboat. They always seem to work when I watch the soccer on TV (spectators going nuts), I am sure those are not new flares.
> 
> Mike


I do the same...had a few old sets off the stinky and figure "why not throw them in?" I suppose it's a bit of a risk, but less of one than not carrying any!


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## andybear

Woo Hoo

It's taken years, but I have finaly got 2 flares and 2 smoke.

I have made up a tube from 90mm PVC with a screw cap end, so that they will be water proof and tethered to me or the yak. One thing I did notice however, was when I took the flares out of the plastic bag, the the manufacturer puts them in, I had to use a tool to tear/cut the plastic bag. I was wondering how many people have been in an emergency situation, and need a flare, and have been unable to open the bag ( with wet cold hands) and have failed?

That thought leaves me a quite concerned! :shock: :shock:

Cheers all Andybear


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## ArWeTherYet

What you dont have a small folding knife strapped to you PDF. :? ........back to BCF :lol:

Yeah they would be a pain to have to cut through to get to the flairs. Also it pays to read the instructions and under stand how to use one, can be awkward trying to read instructions while bobbing around in the water with kgw circling. 8)


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