# Around Australia on a sit on top?



## stonedpirate (Aug 26, 2009)

Hello,

I would like to do long distance sea kayaking but am still undecided on which yak to get.

Was reading that german womans blog who paddled around oz in an Epic 18x sport.

I considered buying one but after reading a ton of reviews i have gone off them.

For that price plus freight there seems to be better options. Plus, freyas got a hole in it by coral reef and had to be sent a new one in perth.

Anyway, i was wondering if doing something like this would be realistic on a plastic sit on top?

What factors are there to consider?

Why aren't people doing it? I mean, all major expeditions seem to be in sit in kevlar/fiberglass hulls.

Why not a 5m+ plastic sit on top?

Been researching sit on tops and have no idea which brand and model would be suitable for this task.

Any opinions would be appreciated.

Sorry for rambling :

Cheers


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## theclick (Jun 25, 2007)

AI!


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## stonedpirate (Aug 26, 2009)

Thanks Lapse.

So there are no long distance plastic yaks that can hand 50-60kms per day?

I think freya averaged 52kms per day 9-12 hours per day.


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## rocky (Oct 23, 2008)

Good luck if you do it Stonedpirate but I think you would have to be a Stoned Pirate to do it :lol: :lol:

Cheers
Rocky


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## theclick (Jun 25, 2007)

Stonedpirate - I wouldnt say that, you just may not be as comfortable. There are a number of touring SOTs that will do you 50kh/d, some of which are in plastic (but many are not). They are usually more like a slick ski, and are usually a bit tippy.

Having said that, they are usually only made for single day trips, and the storage isnt great. Your best bet is still going to be a SIK - of which you can get in plastic. You will be more comfortable, it will be a better ride, and you will be able to store more.

But there is always a first!


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## stonedpirate (Aug 26, 2009)

> From my understanding, plastic is heavy, less hydrodynamic and they encounter difficulties moulding it to the same shape as is desirable for glass.


Scupper pro weighs 26kg, 18x weighs 25kg.

Not sure weight makes much difference after you load it with 75kg of gear then another 8okg body weight.

As for shape, a lot of the newer sit on tops have the sea kayak shape.

Plus they average the same speed.

Is it just that they take more strength to paddle at the same speed?


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## theclick (Jun 25, 2007)

stonedpirate said:


> > From my understanding, plastic is heavy, less hydrodynamic and they encounter difficulties moulding it to the same shape as is desirable for glass.
> 
> 
> Scupper pro weighs 26kg, 18x weighs 25kg.
> ...


Yes. You could probably paddle a SOT as fast as a sea kayak - for a few km. Then you will start to feel the pinch, and thats when the sea kayak will pull away and continue pulling away.


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## ManjiMike (Jan 24, 2007)

My Prowler elite 4.5 has a good shape and I can do 25km in 4hrs, but I would not be able to carry much more than a couple of weeks supplies in it

Cheers Mike


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## YakN00b (Jun 9, 2008)

To be blunt the person who thinks a SOT fishing yak can match the speed of a decent sea kayak is smoking some good stuff.
I was out on my BFS one day using my best technique and pushing fairly hard and a old codger in a plastic sea kayak with absolutely no technique just cruised past me and kept going with what seemed like absolutely no effort
After doing some googling it seems 7 to 8km/h *average* over a 20km trip is not too difficult. I have managed to average 7km/h over 1 hour on flat water on my empty BFS and I was dead at the end. Admittedly I am not the fittest person around but I was working very hard to maintain that speed.

http://www.seakayakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=275


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## stonedpirate (Aug 26, 2009)

Cheers all.

I think the closest thing i can find is the cobra expedition at 5.5 meters long.

It seems to have the speed of a sea kayak and can carry nearly 200kg.

Freya carried 75kg of stuff.

As for the surf zone, i'm not sure any long craft do well in it.

Even raider x's and epic 18x's snap when hit with a decent wave.

I think its possible, it would just take twice as long. Instead of doing 60kms a day, aim for 30.

Might even consider fiberglass again because sit on tops are kind of dissapointing as far as touring goes.


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## eth93 (Dec 17, 2007)

stonedpirate said:


> Thanks again all.
> 
> I read Freyas blog and settled on the Epic 18x Sport.
> 
> ...


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## stonedpirate (Aug 26, 2009)

Yeah, i ordered one on the website and they phoned me to tell me that freight costs 250 more for regional WA and asked if i still wated to charge the card.

I said i'd call back but after thinking about the cost and comparing it to australian yaks, i couldnt justify the extra cost as it isnt that superior to yaks half the price.

Then i considered sit on tops again but after this thread i am back to sea yaks and am considering the Mirage 580 or the raider X.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

I've been doing a lot of hunting in a similar space. It is wrong to think that all sea kayaks are faster than SOTs. Most kayaks cruise at around 6kmh, any of the Stealth Evolutions will stay with this (or leave them behind). ANy more speed than this will be determined by the boat design AND the paddler. I doubt the speed will result from weekend fishing on its own. If you are really chasing speed, well this is my short list (in roughly descending interest - PRIOR to wet testing) :
1/ (Tahe) Zegul 550 - similar in concept to the Epic, but I suspect with better stability - http://www.expeditionkayaks.com/ click on the Zegul review
2/ Epic 18X - seems you guys already have links
3/ Mirage 580 - designed for touring (fast), I suspect too bouyant when lightly loaded (which I would be pretty much all the time) - http://www.mirageseakayaks.com.au/mirage580.htm
4/ (Tahe) Wind 585 - I suspect very similar to the mirage, including teh same "cons" - http://www.expeditionkayaks.com/ click on the Wind review

and there always seems to be a Stealth SOT that gets on every single list, as a ring-in I have added

5/ Stealth Toura - http://www.stealthkayaksaustralia.com.a ... php?p=1_11

With all of these the extra length will be an issue out of the water, so I think max 18kg is a target. Which knocks out everything except 2/ and 3/ (barring ridiculous cost and even more extensive use of exotic fibres). BUT 1/ and 2/ being a foot shorter will be easier to handle on land anyway. The Zegul, Wind and Epic wont leave much change from $4,000 (particularly if you want a composit mix rather than glass), the Aussie made Mirage about $1,000 cheaper.

I dont see the point in the 18X Sport - if the beast is too tippy, take another look at the Zegul.

I am trying to organise a day off work in order to wet test them all - along with a couple of skis (Epic V10 sport, Fenn XT). It's been taking an inordinate amount of time to get it arranged (winter dampens the spirits a little).

Note that with all of the SIKs, new emergency and remount techniques will be required, and the SIK "roll" may not cut it as a remount technique if you have lines out.


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## keza (Mar 6, 2007)

Have you looked at Pittarak Kayaks ?

http://www.pittarak.com.au/home.html


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

keza said:


> Have you looked at Pittarak Kayaks ?
> 
> http://www.pittarak.com.au/home.html


Only now that you mention it. Of course everything must be wet tested for any thought to be valid, however:
I'm not fond of the heavy rocker and large overhang of this sort of SIK (very popular with the sea kayak afficionados). (As I understand it,) what it does is provide responsiveness and ease of the technical strokes and rolling. Sundin in the articles I quoted earlier called this "playfullness". But the design is basically the opposite design intent for what (I think that) I am looking for - hard tracking, stable (compared to these things) and fast. And this particular make is shorter again than the Zegul and Epic - most of the big rocker, big overhang boats get longer when the designer is chasing speed.

I guess I'm somewhat off-topic: this thread is about SOT for around Australia. For around Australia the Wind and the Mirage would be perfect (better spec than Zegul/Epic for that purpose I would think, but I'm not arguing with Freya!), but they are not SOT. Stealth Toura/Adventura/Splash/495 - that's where I would start that particular quest. And I have NO idea which one would best suit.


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

indiedog said:


> Speed is but one factor of many to consider for any multi-day self-sufficient kayak expedition. You should have a craft capable of coping with the worst of several factors combined such as weather, wind, surf, landing area choices, etc, etc. Speed is less of a consideration than safety and preparedness.
> 
> I owned a Pittarak for several years and while I rate it highly I wouldn't get one again. The strong keel line and lack of rocker makes it a bastard to turn unless you are an expert paddler, and I mean an "expert" paddler and it suffers badly from windage. It is absolutely not suitable for surf conditions. Any multi-day journey is subject to weather variables and you must expect surf conditions at some time. I did paddle it before buying it with a Mirage 530 to compare and the Pittarak was a much better craft in calm to moderate conditions.
> 
> Find me a SOT with a Southern Raider hull, compartmentation and storage, and I'll buy it in a second.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: Corrected immediately on the rocker! If the Pittarek doesnt spin well, I dont get it. You can have the windage too. Surf is on the top of my list, or actually picking up the runners, and I'd like to have comfort doing this in 2m+ swell. So same idea really. Did you think the same when lightly loaded compared to being geared up?


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## dru (Dec 13, 2008)

indiedog said:


> So the moral is, we all need to own several kayaks! :lol:


:roll: The Indiedog for PM campaign starts here! :roll:

I'm working on the dedicated speed freak now. Swing can handle everything else.


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## SgtWilson (Oct 6, 2008)

I own a Mirage 580.

Fast, stable, sexy and can carry a huge payload.

A really nice boat for long distance touring.


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